/lit/ - Literature

I didn't like Beloved OR The Invisible Man OR Their Eyes Were Watching God so I figured I'm pretty much a huge racist.

But rabies is a good plot device. As is baby smashing.

No, you're not racist . . . you're sexist!

Why didn't you like it?

She preys upon reader's emotion, whites for guilt and blacks for some ridiculous sense of identification with slavery, and bases her entire story around race issues that are no longer pertinent (until some jackass like Toni Morrison cements them in people's minds with this type of shit). Shitty author.

not liking black women authors means you are a bigot, this is just a fact.

You should donate to the jewish founded NAACP to make up for it.

>>2397148

Yeah, it sure is nice that racism ended.

>>2397150
filthy left wing traitor spotted

>>2397151

You're very silly.

Toni Morrison is racist, not you OP.

>>2397153
am i incorrect?

Toni Morrison story:

Black people get horribly abused
A bunch of obscure shit gets misinterpreted
Somebody gets raped/an awful sex scene is poorly described

Seriously, why would anyone read this?

>>2397157
>Seriously, why would anyone read this?

White guilt.

>>2397157
You forgot where the black people abuse themselves, because they're niggers.

>>2397159

Well, for me it was a dumbass class assignment. Never again.

>>2397156

I don't even know what the words you've said mean. You're so steeped in your own rhetoric.

>>2397157
5000 blacks lynched after committing crimes over 100 years

HORRIFIC, AWFUL, VICIOUS RACISM

2000 whites murdered every year by subhuman shitskin niggers

JUST INDIVIDUALS ACTING ON THEIR OWN DUE TO POVERTY AND LOW SOCIAL STATUS

Welp, guess we can't have black author threads anymore. We lost the women author threads a while back too.

Fucking /pol/ and its bringing back the stormfront audience.

This thread quickly went from a Toni Morrison thread to a black hate thread. And I couldn't be more pleased with this.

>>2397171

>Toni Morrison
>black
>female

You knew this would be doomed from the start.

>>2397176

This was never a Toni Morrison thread. It was pretty clear racist baiting from the start.

>>2397176
I see no black hate, only discussion about the book.
Racist?

>>2397181

>I see no hate

If "subhuman shitskin niggers" isn't hate, what is it?

Oh, THIS...

I have to read "Beloved" in a couple of weeks for an American Literature module. I already know I'm going to hate it. It's a book championed by Opera, revolving around the plight of the blacks and (from what I gather) the endless suffering of the poor, poor women of the world, who most certainly do not voice their misery, being the fairer, stronger sex. Boy, am I in for a ride.

>>2397181

I live in the American South.

So yes, I am indeed a racist.

>>2397188

At least Beloved almost has a hint of a ghost story in it.

Unfortunately Morrison fucks that up by only focusing on black abuse.

Good luck, anon.

>>2397188

>I already know I'm going to hate it.

This is called prejudice, and you should check it if you're going to be an honest intellect.

>>2397194
>he thinks prejudice is a bad thing

>>2397183
Thats not racism thats just colorful expression.
Besides, Morrison just stretches that out over a few hundred pages.

>>2397193

Cheers. Isn't the ghost meant to be the unborn fetus of the mother, who was raped by a cruel, white slave-master? That's what I've been told, but I honestly don't know if my friends were having a bit of a laugh.

>>2397194

Umm... He's reading Beloved, a book that was only published because of prejudice.

Jeez, get your head out of your ass.

>>2397194

Objectivity is a lie. We all have preconceptions before we begin reading. To pretend otherwise is dishonest.

I have a bit more to go on than most, having seen snippets of the film adaptation a couple of years ago. I'd say I am very much justified in my assumptions.

>>2397201
>>2397197
>>2397195

Stormfront in full force I see. I'm getting the hell out of here. There's no arguing with you guys.

>>2397200

The ghost is so many things because Morrison either lacked the balls or the intelligence to give it any clear definition, making it an overall weak symbol. Your idea of it is as good as any.

>>2397204

>Objectivity is a lie. We all have preconceptions before we begin reading. To pretend otherwise is dishonest.

Did I say throw away your preconceptions?

No. I said CHECK them. Hold them in check. Be aware of them. Don't just assume you're going to hate a book because of them.

>>2397209

Wonderful. Well, thanks for the heads up.

>>2397211
Check your privilege too, mirite?

>>2397209

Your very ignorant of literary theory and the history of literature in general. Ambiguity in a symbol is very much a part of modern and post-modern literature.

You're free to have a problem with that, but don't cast it at the feet of Morrison 'not having the balls', cast it at the feet of the artistic movement within which she's operating.

>>2397205

Umm... I don't see an argument here... You just can't seem to be honest with yourself.

>>2397215

>I don't see an argument here

Of course not. Why argue with people who are zealots?

>>2397218
You are the zealot, not us.

>>2397211

That's easier said than done. Regardless of whether I recognize my assumptions flavouring my reading, I am still me, and consequently I'm incapable of divorcing my character from my reception of the novel. But I'll try, at least for the first thirty or so pages.

>>2397219

Of course I am. Whatever you say.

So, how about that Gil Scott-Heron fellow, eh?

>>2397214

>telling a M.A. in Literary Theory they are ignorant of Literary Theory...

There is a level at which ambiguity becomes laziness. A symbol must have an anchor, otherwise it only exists to be misleading and misinterpreted, a cheap-ass way to get attention. Morrison couldn't bring herself to anchor Beloved's ghost because she couldn't decide what she wanted it to be, so she lazily allowed it to be vague, harming the story.

>>2397222

>Regardless of whether I recognize my assumptions flavouring my reading, I am still me, and consequently I'm incapable of divorcing my character from my reception of the novel.

If you're incapable of asking "what would this look like to someone else?" and trying to come to an understanding of the work's importance, you have no place in the study of literature.

>>2397226
>m a in literary theory

what sort of job does that get you?

>>2397226

> There is a level at which ambiguity becomes laziness.

I can't agree with this statement enough.

>>2397226

The fact that you might be poisoning classrooms with this ancient rhetoric disturbs me.

>>2397229


None at all. But at least when I got my useless degree I had fun reading tons of books and it was easy as hell. I pity the fools who work hard at their academic career only to realize that there are no jobs.

>>2397230
The fact you are trying to defend some hack negress who essentially is just writing race based whining about "why was i born inferior?? Treat me as if i wasn't!" means that you are the one with no place in the study of literature.

>>2397230

Now you're being hostile for the sake of it. I am not incapable of this; on the contrary, I'm very much aware of why books like these are championed. However, my opinion is the most important one to me, and I am not going to let it take on the traits of others simply because I should.

>>2397235

don't worry friend, I would never waste my time teaching in the American college system. And I'm sorry if my rhetoric is too ancient for you, but see, I subscribe to theories that actually try to accomplish something, as opposed to modern theory that claims there can be no meaning.

>this thread

>>2397230

>wanting to see things from a black person's perspective...

>>2397255
u muhfugga rasiss or sumtin?

Song of Solomon is one of the best novels I've ever read.

No Toni Morrisson is not a hack. But she's going to be a hack by default on 4chan because she's a woman and black and TITS OR GTFO LOL NIGGERS SOO LEGION XD XD

>>2397171
>>2397171

I honestly expected better out of /lit/.

>>2396795
>>2396795

The Invisible Man is great.

>>2397261

>mfw plebs think Invisible Man is just about racism

>>2397242

Then you should stop being such an egotistical child.

>>2397261
if only all niggers were invisible and didn't bother other people.

>>2397245

>And I'm sorry if my rhetoric is too ancient for you, but see, I subscribe to theories that actually try to accomplish something, as opposed to modern theory that claims there can be no meaning.

And that's why you can't get a job in academia. Subscribe to your outdated theories all you like, it would be cute if it weren't so sad.

>>2397272
modern and post modern literature is all fucking garbage and anyone who actually writes that shit(or reads and likes it) should be embarrassed

>>2397268

> He has a viewpoint different to my own
> "You are a child! You are prejudiced and can't accept the viewpoints of others!"

Genius at work, gentlemen.

>>2397275
It takes a special sort of mind to practice doublethink in everything they do.

>>2397272

And what exactly do you do in academia? Propitiate the very theories that are destroying the study of literature? Contribute to the masses of "interpretation" that only convolute and distort the actual intention of authors? Line up like all the other pretentious fags waiting for your chance to suck Harold Bloom's cock?

>>2397276

Doesn't it? "Special" being the key word there.

>>2397278
If literature only has value to the academics does it have value at all?

>>2397291
well, do the academics have value?

>>2397292

Then who was phone?

>>2397297
How do the do?

>>2397308

Doo-wah-diddy-diddy-do-diddy-day.

>>2397314

Actually, I believe it's
>doo-ah diddy, diddy-dum diddy-doo.

>>2397278

You realize that Bloom is one of the few academics left that stands in opposition to contemporary theory, right?

>>2397200
If I recall correctly, the ghost is of her toddler. She was gang? raped, but I don't think the baby was theirs.

She had a husband and some children. They staged an escape - he didn't make it. She set up a life with his mother but one day the master came looking for them. When she saw him she killed her toddler and was about to kill her other children - to spare them from slavery. She was stopped and didn't get taken back for some reason I forget.

>>2397332
>white men
>raping black women

doesn't fucking happen at all

while the reverse happens over 40k times a year

>>2397350
Yeah, in present day. The book takes place in the past. Rape is a very effective method of punishment or torture, and a lot of whites back then were all about controlling their slaves.

In the book, her first master was kind. It was only after he died that all the bad shit started happening. I mention this only because people seem to think it's all "whites are evil blacks are persecuted crying forever" but it's not.

Beloved was good book.
I'm planning to read Song of Solomon next.

Why are you all so racist?

I bet you all hate Richard Wright, too.

>>2397359

>Why are you all so racist?

most of the people here came in around / after Chanology when the site got popular. White trash types and quasi-libertarian sheltered college freshmen. I think a /lit/ board would have been better a few years ago, but yeah, nowadays with these people around, threads like this kind of illustrate how much of a joke it is.

>white lit majors complaining about racism, living the most sheltered lives imaginable
Adorable.

>>2397365
actually I don't think I ever saw many of the latte leftist types that now inhabit /lit/ around before Facebook became popular. 4chan being a liberal epicentre is a fairly recent thing.

>>2397365
>uses the term "white trash"
>calls them racist

I find it fucking laughable that you think "racism" is somehow a new thing on 4chan.

>>>/reddit/
faggot

>>2397359

Song of Solomon is actually the better book.

>>2397399

It's not a new thing at all, it's just about a post-2008 thing. It's relatively new in the grand scheme of 4chan's life, but it's been a firmly cemented part of 4chan nowadays. And that's pretty much what the other guy said.

>>2397414
So glancing at enc dramatica apparently /n/ - news was killed in feb 2008
(fuck i've lost control of my life)

anyways, there was plenty of that "racism" well before 2008.