/lit/ - Literature

You mean a wizard?
In 5 years I'l lbecome one

How about you fucking hang yourself

>abstinence from sex, rich foods, drugs

oh wow, I'm an ascetic and I didn't even know it.

Asceticism should be practiced periodically. That's the best way. And Nietzsche agreed. Nice try. But you're not baiting me with your bombastic statements.

If I have a 2D waifu am I still ascetic?
I'm 100% pure. I never had sex I don't do drugs, I don't smoke, I don't enjoy social meetings.

What am I?

>>2387033
>sex, rich foods, drugs
But I don't get any of those.
Read "The Immortal" by Borges, it's related to asceticism.

>Plus, being an ascetic is a one step closer to becoming an Übermensch. ;)
No.

>>2387058
It depends. Whether or not you fap to your waifu?

There are many forms of asceticism and I reject the Christian variant of it. Restraining your natural urges in such a way will only cause problems. Asceticism in the Cynical way however is inspiring and I try my best to live an unpretentious kind of life.

Not that I'm homeless, but I eat two simple meals a day that I prepared myself from whole foods, I have a bed, desk, chair, two changes of clothes and some toiletries and pots and pans. My only decadent pleasures are some tobacco and wine and a computer and some books. I am however always trying to further simplify my life. I hope to frugal enough to be able to live of only a couples days of work a week, so that I may do as I please with the rest of my time.

So was DFW an ascetic?

You guys should watch Werckmeister Harmonies, main character will show you the real meaning of asceticism.

I hate the fact that you're tripfagging with my name. Your primitive thoughts are bringing us down.

>>2387078
I doubt it. He had a wife.

>>2387088
Primitive? Keep living in the past bro, ascetics are the future.

Does having friends counts as not being an ascetic?

>>2387108
> Ascetics are the future.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
You have no idea what you're talking about.

I laugh to think there are people who lived their entire lives with this philosophy.

Chances are very strong that you only get one life and there is nothing after it and you dumb fucks spend it avoiding any sort of pleasure?

Proper abstinence is abstinence from things that distract and things that strengthen the ego (prestige and recognition, for instance -- if you were truly ascetic you wouldn't use a tripcode or waste your time on websites like this in the first place.)

If something isn't forbidden, there's no need for seekers to abstain from it unless it distracts them from their journey. Otherwise, you run the risk of becoming attached to a superficially "ascetic" lifestyle and identity.

>>2387112

Ascetic =/= hikikomori/NEET as far as I know.
Dumbfucks.

>>2387108
> Ascetics are the future.

Yeah. Because monasteries are so cutting edge.

>>2387129
What about fapping?

>>2387130

Taking your goals seriously and being willing to make sacrifices for them without distracting yourself with useless bullshit is kind of cool, I've heard.

Nietzsche believed in a balance between Apollonian and Dionysian forces. Apollonian being related to asceticism, Dionysian being related to hedonism and excess. So... you're completely wrong about the ubermensch thing. Have you actually read Thus Spake Zarathustra or are you just guessing?

>>2387138
So? How is that relevant?

>>2387141
That's a definition of asceticism.

>>2387146
No it isn't. That's much closer to the definition of discipline than asceticism.
getadictionary

>Nietzsche
That's some entry level shit right there.
You must be one of those confused kids that just read Nietzsche and think that they know how everything works. Just to let you know, that philosophy is more than Nietzsche, but you'll get there when you get older.

>>2387139
Tell me more about that specific balance

>>2387148

That's a definition of asceticism more true to what legitimate "ascetics" actually practice than hurr durr wear shitty clothes and starve yourself.

>implying sex, food, drugs and carnal pleasures are the most impure, if impure at all
>implying i don't attempt to resist social pressures, greedy consumerism, hypocritical desires to justify beliefs, jealousy, subconscious sadistic urges, subconscious masochistic urges, lethargy, and depression every day.

>>2387148
Get a wider view of the history of ascetic behaviour than Christian monasticism.

>>2387151
I have written a few articles on the subject. But you're probably not interested in my opinion. Nietzsche though, the man in question, believed that the time he was living in suffered from an Apollonian malaise. He thought the best way was to fuse the two rather than go one way or the other.
Further Reading: The Birth of Tragedy by Nietzsche.

>>2387158
>depression
How does one resist depression? I heard that Zoloft is a good solution?

>>2387165
Once again that's irrelevant. It doesn't take back the fact that either you don't know what asceticism is or you are using the word inaccurately to express an idea you have which is related to asceticism but not synonymous with it.

Give up everything that adds pleasure to life.
Live a simple, basic life.
Die.

or

Fuck bitches, get paid and shoot amphetamine into your testicles and party like a motherfucker. Die.

Tough call, bud. Personally, I think the whole idea of a higher plane of thought is just bullshit anyway. You'd have to be too dumb or too smart to buy into it.

>>2387086
Can you link me to a torrent please? The ones i found had no seeders.

>>2387177

Asceticism is the practice of self restraint in order to attain a higher goal. Nothing more, nothing less.

>>2387154
No it isn't! Why are you talking such shit?
And why am I getting worked up about it? This is /lit/. This is what should be expected.

>>2387177
>first option
avoid risks in life to make it safely to death


But in the end it doesn't matter.

>>2387170
>I have written a few articles on the subject.
link?

>>2387185

I'm getting curious as to what your idea of asceticism is. How would you define it yourself?

>>2387178
After masturbating for 8 years I've realized that I don't even _want_ to fuck bitches anymore. If i ever only sleep with one woman for the rest of my life, i'd be content.

>>2387182
Here you go bro:
http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/3468265/BA_la_Tarr_-_Werckmeister_harmA_niA_k_%282000%29

>>2387191
Asceticism is the practice of self-restraint, usually from pleasure sustenance, and usually for spiritual reasons.
> Taking your goals seriously and being willing to make sacrifices for them without distracting yourself
Is far more specific and would be better called 'discipline'.

>>2387197
Thank you very much!

disturbing lack of buddhism here...

>>2387170
>>2387170
>>2387170
I'm still waiting for those so-called "articles" of yours.

>>2387200

All sounds the same to me. It originally meant the same too, but the Greek concept got corrupted by Christian clergy.

>>2387211
As much as I like somebody taking an interest (even if it is a skeptical one) they're not on the internet, they were printed on actual paper. About 5 years ago.

>>2387210
>disturbing lack of buddhism here...

>implying there isn't a daily influx of tryhards asking for introductory buddhist crap

>>2387220
Implying every article published in the past decade in a journal worth it's salt isn't archived on the internet.

>Diogenes was knee deep in a stream washing vegetables. Coming up to him, Plato said, "My good Diogenes, if you knew how to pay court to kings, you wouldn't have to wash vegetables."

>"And," replied Diogenes, "If you knew how to wash vegetables, you wouldn't have to pay court to kings."

>>2387234
How many articles of yours have made it to print?

Did you write it out by hand? if not, upload a copy here- scribd.com

asceticism is the true austerity.

>Plus, being an ascetic is a one step closer to becoming an Übermensch. ;)

elaborate on this without inadvertently making the case for the last man and horribly contradicting yourself.

protip: you fucking can't you homosexual unfledged popinjay

I live in the middle of a city, I don't think I really fit in with modern lifestyles. I'm 21. Everything seems to be so materialistic and pointless sometimes. My laptop is my one true luxury.

I don't buy branded clothes, I don't buy stupid gadgets, I don't like new technology, I never drink fizzy drinks, for anything less than 3km I walk, 10km I cycle, 10km+ train, I take cold showers, I use a simple soap, I hate stylish deodorants and the like, I never have the heating on, the thought of having a fast or flashy car bores me, I eat simple foods, I don't appreciate art, the only type of garden I like is a very natural, laissez-faire one, I dislike jewellery, I hardly listen to music anymore, nightclubs and bars are pointless and expensive, the thought of having a casual relationship bores me, I never smoke or take any drugs with the exception to an odd bit of alcohol, and I don't fear death at all, I just try to avoid it.

I'm not poor, or tight with money. You could call me a very boring person, and you'd probably be right. The only things I do with my life at the moment are "keep fit", increasing my education, and earning money where I can. The only thing I want to do with my life ultimately is live a simple life and have lots of children.

To be ascetic just to be ascetic, then you are not ascetic.

asceticism is counter-revolutionary

>>2387243
Why would I go through the hassle of finding my old hard drive, hooking it up to this computer and posting old articles I wrote 5 years ago? Particularly as I don't think they still represent my passion on the asceticism debate as well as they did 5 years ago. So it's not really worth it. There were some nice readings of 60s counter-culture, including some interesting relations pointed out between 60s music and Dionysian forces, a Hunter S. Thompson quote, a Joan Didion quote and a nice conclusion about the need for balance rather than veering too far to one side or the other. That's the gist. Enjoy.

>>2387271
Watch out, here comes the retard again.
The one who still thinks that women contribute to our society.

>>2387274
you-are-not-a-real-writer.jpg

>>2387282
He never claimed to be, leave the man alone.

Living the simple life is great. I'm not an ascetic in the strict sense, but I live frugal and live a simple life. Give me something to read, a bit of booze, food clothes and shelter and maybe a smoke once in a while and I'm good.

>>2387282
I never claimed to be. But I'm well on my way.

OP you already failed as an ascetic just by posting here, not to mention having internet connection and a computer.

>>2387314
Someone with the bare necessities plus a communication device today is more of an ascetic than a monk was in comparison with the average medieval person.

>>2387170
I am actually interested. Where did you get the idea that Nietzsche propagated the idea of a balance of the two? In my understanding the Dionysian way of life was Nietzsches ideal. The will to life, the way of the eternal return. In what sense does the apollonian concept fit this picture?

This life is all you have OP, enjoy wasting it.

>>2387346
A pure dionysian way of life leads to death by irresponsibility and insanity. You need some rationality to balance it just to survive.

>>2387058
You're a weeaboo and certanily do not belong here.
>>>/jp/

bump

>>2387423
What do you hope to see? Any specific inquiries about the ascetic life?

>>2387074
>so I may do as I please with the rest of my time

Well, you're seriously limited as to what you can do.

>>2387149
>entry level
>philosophy

>>2387033
>In case you guys don't know, Asceticism is a way of life that requires abstinence from sex, rich foods, drugs, etc, etc. It also rejects perversion of the human personality and ruthless exploitation of nature and physical environment.

>from sex, rich foods, drugs, etc, etc.
>rich foods

I don't think I could give up eating lobster, filet minon, calamari, caviar, salmon, etc. etc. I would be completely fine giving everything else up though

>>2387654

Yes, I may not have the financial means to engage in a lot of forms of entertainment or travel or something like that. Actually, travel would be the only thing I might feel left out on, but it can also be done frugally if I really want to. Other than that most of my joys don't require a lot of money.

What would you say I would deny myself that you find essential or beneficial for a happy life? I don't mean this in a defensive way, I'm just curious as I can't seem to think of many things.

>>2387693
I'm not saying they're essential to a 'happy life'. However, even reading costs money. I don't know of a job/career which would allow for someone to live comfortably off 2 or 3 days work a week, even finding one with those hours would be difficult enough. There are ways, but most require a fair amount of effort.

Pleasure is a weakness. Prove me wrong nigga.

>>2387704
no need, you are obviously miserable

>>2387703
Well, my idea of comfort is a one room apartment in a shitty neighborhood, two meals a day, a laptop, health insurance and a mattress on the floor. A pouch of roll your own tobacco and a jug of cheap red wine once in a while to celebrate maybe. So a little money will go a long way. I'll probably end up working retail or in a warehouse somewhere, but that's something I'll have to live with.

>Why do you find joy in worldly pleasures?

because asceticism is masochistic

>>2387732
One could say the same about struggling to attain all kinds of luxuries.

>>2387736
nope.

>>2387724
You're forgetting to create a safety net. Working low skill, low wage and part time jobs you have virtually no job security and, at times, finding another when you inevitably lose it will be hard. I understand you, I myself don't want much (though a little more than you), but I think you're setting yourself up for some shitty times.

Unless you have savings already, and you manage them well enough to keep up with inflation, then you're pretty much set.

What spiritual goal are you working towards OP?

>>2387746

I understand your concern, but the situation where I live is a lot less harsh than in the States. I also know that I can always count on friends and family for a spot on the floor and a bit of food. This goes both ways of course.

I hope to get to the point where food, clothes, shelter and some medical care are enough to keep me happy. At that point I'll be not quite invincible, but a lot less fragile than most people.

Apart from that, there's nothing keeping me from working full time for a while of course and set up an emergency fund. And in case shit does hit the fan, all my valuables already fit in a bag, so I'm quite mobile.

>>2387754

Getting in on that sexy buddhist tail.

>>2387768

Me again, there's something I want to add. This might seem quite idealistic and naive, but I would eventually consider joining forces with like-minded people in my area. If you can share the rent with some folks the cost of living decreases severely, especially if you also buy food in bulk and cook communal meals. It would be glorious to live in a little cynic commune.

Bringing back old philosophy modern style, so to speak.

>>2387775

This sounds like a cult. A true ascetic would go the way of the early Christian fathers who fled to the desert and communed with God.

>>2387781
It would be people living simple lives helping each other to live simple lives and share some space and meals.

But I'm not interested in asceticism in the religious sense, seeking out mystical experience and practicing self-mortification. I just think the simple life is the good life. I might give up potato chips, but not touching my willy.

maybe I'll become a Trappist

maybe one of the ones who make the fancy beer

>>2387807
Go to Westvleteren, it's supposed to be the best one.

what fucking fun is being ascetic?

>>2387814
Well, one anon posted an article here a while back how Buddhist monks get their brain to flush them with happy chemicals by meditation. Straight to the source.

this

>>2387121

Don't mistake pleasure with happiness.

>>2387033
"For a long time, there has been a huge sect of imbeciles who oppose sensuality and intelligence. It's a vicious circle: they deprive themselves of pleasure to exalt their intellectual abilities, which only contributes to impoverish them. They become even stupider beings, and that comfortes them in their conviction of brilliancy, since there is nothing better than stupidity to believe oneself intelligent.
Delight, however, makes us humble and admiring with what it produces, pleasure awakens the mind and pushes toward both virtuosity and depth. This magic is so powerful that in the absence of pleasure, the very idea of pleasure is enough. As long as that notion stands, the being is safe. Triumphant frigidity is doomed to celebrate its own insubstantiality.
One sometimes comes across people who, strongly and out loud, claim to have deprived themselfes from this or that pleasure for twenty-five years. We also know fantastic idiots who praise themselves because they never listened to music, never opened a book and never went to the movies. There are also those hoping to raise admiration because of their absolute chastity. Some vanity must draw from all this: it is the only joy that will have in life."
A. Nothomb.

bump

>>2387935
where is this from
only read stupeur and tremblements
this is the same person, right?

0/10. Paraphrasing Kesey: You only get to see this film once, not enjoying it is blowing your ticket. [talking about life]

>>2387923

Don't mistake misery with virtue.

>>2387033
I dunno man, I've been asking myself the same question ever since I was born a prince and everything. I had everything; girls, rich foods, wealth. But one day I saw how shitty and miserable some people were, and I have ascetism a try.

It got to the point where I would eat individual grains of rice, and I could touch my spine through my stomach. Then I was all like, what the fuck, ascetism is just like another brand of hedonism, just with different traits.

so ever since then man, I've been hovering in between those two. Not exactly in the middle, but somewhere in between. But hey, if it works for you, that's awesome.

>>2389167

Balance is boring.

>>2389175
Maybe. But it makes me happy, or at least provides the least amount of suffering. My epicurean bros would probably agree. : )

>>2389179

It makes you content, and keeps you where those in power want you.

>>2389182
How can those in power be in charge of nothing? I am nothing, after all.

>>2389188
>i am nothing

Well shit, ain't that a non sequitur.

>>2389190
that's life

>>2389191

And another non sequitur. You're exactly the kind of evasive asshole I would have expected to go through a pseudo-Buddhist phase.

>>2389182

Balance according to the Epicureans would be ascetic by today's standards. But I don't know what that guy you quoted means by balance of course.

If you want to be where those in power want you to be, then you should be working hard and playing hard. Struggling to make a lot of money and spending it on shit you don't need. If all you need is some food, clothes and shelter, you're much harder to manipulate.

I am an ascetic.

>>2389192
ohh no! you found me out : )

>>2389195

You spelled "autistic" wrong.

>>2389193
unless you have a sack of gold or other valuable commodity, not cash, stashed in your room somewhere, and have enough to live the rest of your life, you're easy to manipulate.

Same could be said for non-gun owners. Or those who watch too much television, or eat too much red meat.

And people who don't wear tin foil on a regular basis.

>>2389198

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Especially because the definition of 'autism' is one that reflects social norms to a large degree.

>>2389205

Yes, a lot of these things come in to play. But let's say one person needed food, clothes and shelter to be happy. The other person needed food, clothes, shelter, a tv, some beers after work, a car, a fridge,a hot shower and a nice stereo. Obviously, the first person doesn't need to maintain such a high standard of living. He has less to lose, and is therefore not as easy to manipulate. The second person could be tempted to obedience merely by taking taking his tv away. People with a lot of needs are always an easy target. They cripple themselves in a sense.

>>2389211

I forgot to add: This is of course not only so in the case of actual manipulation, but will also work in your benefit concerning a lot of other obstacles life throws at you.

I've seen people with some financial problems who got stressed out because they had to move out of their house. Why? Because they would be embarrassed to live in a simple house. Why else? Because they simply have too much shit to store in a smaller place. Most peoples houses are more storage space than living space. A single person could live very comfortably in a 25 square meter/270 square feet apartment, for example. Attachment to all kinds of luxuries and useless posessions creates worry and suffering.

Apart from some cheap basic furniture, all my worthwhile posessions fit into a garbage bag. They're also replaceable for less than €1000 / $1325. This makes my lifestyle pretty recessions proof. And stress free. Or, as Thoreau said:

>“It is desirable that a man […] live in all respects so compactly and preparedly that, if an enemy take the town, he can, like the old philosopher, walk out the gate empty-handed without anxiety.”

>>2389211
or another way of thinking is that the person with more material objects would fare better because he has less necessary things to bargain with first. If a person has a television, he is much better relinquishing that instead of his food or water, for instance.

While the other man has less to give, all of that is important to him. So if he had to give away an item, it would be disasterous.

>abstinence from sex, rich foods, drugs

You just described the average weeabo. Wow. Asceticism must be more widespread than I thought.

>define rich foods, define drug
- where is the cut off??
for that matter
>define sex
are blow jobs allowed? what about frotting?

Luxury varies from person to person

the way to reach Übermensch status isn't through the asceticism of the stoics but by their indifference. Just learn to go with the flow, be adaptable. the adaptability is also in line with what we know of evolution and human social organisation.

>>2389338

Well, that's what currency or even gold is for. In the end I don't suppose you really think that your luxury goods actually protect you or help you in times of need, do you?

>>2389359
>the way to reach Übermensch status isn't through the asceticism of the stoics but by their indifference. Just learn to go with the flow, be adaptable. the adaptability is also in line with what we know of evolution and human social organisation.

Indifference tends to lead to austerity. Or would you have the Übermensch watch American Idol with a bowl of popcorn?

>>2389364
the indifferent are just accepting of their significant powerlessness so they seem to embrace whatever happens.if an indifferent person was surrounded by friends and family watching American Idol with popcorn, to decline participation indicated some degree of concerted will . what they are more likely to do is sit still and let thing happen round about them. someone offers them the bowl, they take a hand full because they are hungry. When I think of Übermensch I think of the honest man like Meursault rather than any reclusive stoic.

Speaking as the Ubermensch, I don't always heed the counsels of moderation and self denial that a true ascetic must at least pay obeisance to.
I find that the need to manifest my aspect of self and cement upon the attention of the world the perception of myself that best allows me to actualize my superior mana, and dominate and drive the means and ends of the mundane world.

Also, just can't say no to pie...

>requires abstinence from sex, rich foods, drugs, etc, etc.

boring as hell

>>2389059
It's from "Metaphysique des tubes" (Metaphysics of the tubes) by Amelie Nothomb. I believe the book is named 'The Character of Rain' in english.

>>2389380
>Meursault
This. If a real Ubermensch would exist then it would be someone like Meursault.

>Meursault
That's some entry-level shit right there.

Meursault is more of a last man type of character than an Übermensch. Comfortable motherfucker.

>>2389441

The Ubermensch masters the Will to Power. Mersault doesn't really have a will at all.

The most Uber of Mensches we have had have been Hemingway and Ted Roosevelt.

>>2389441
I wouldn't call Meursault an Ubermensch.
He's just one of those dudes who realized too early in their life that everything is pointless; whether you die at the age of 25 or the age of 100 it's still the same. So he's being indifferent to everything and doesn't give a fuck.

Hemingway was a drunk mostly concerned with his manly and adventurous reputation. Roosevelt was a fat churchgoing yank.

If a man wants to commit himself to a ask and make the utmost of it, he'll tolerate no distractions. So it was with the athletes of old (and perhaps today), and so it is for philosophers. That is the value of asceticism. I've never head of a worthwhile thinker who didn't live a sober, dedicated life.

>>2389821
*task, of course.

>>2389821

Pretty much everything Lord Byron achieved proves you wrong.

>>2389832
Please educate me on the great philosophical breakthroughs achieved by Lord Byron. Some decadent poetry doesn't count.

I thought Gotama Buddha already pointed out the flaws of asceticism hundreds of years ago

>>2389870

That he did, he disapproved of the asceticism in the ancient Indian way. Which was actually severe self mutilation. Gautama's 'middle way', however, looks more like the life of a Cynic philosopher than that of your average person. The Theravada monks, who stick closely to these guidelines, are proof of that. Sleeping on a mat on the floor, not possessing more than you can carry, eating one begged meal a day, et cetera. The middle path means more or less living as simple as you can without harming your body in a serious way, not just having a single SUV instead of two.

>>2389880
HURR DURRRFF IMA FUCKING RETARD I DONT KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT

>>2389980
Man, go back to /b/.

>>2389980
You evidently are.

ascetics are all about computers and the internet fyi. especially websites like 4chan. you find them all over the place.

>>2390013
>2012
>humble Windows laptop
> scornfulmonks.jpg

>>2390031
vajrayana monks?

on my /lit/?

the fuck back to /b/, esoteric mountain goats

>>2390031
xD

u cool, anon.

>>2390036
My nigga. Refugee motherfuckers, can't even meditate in their own country lol

u mad tibetans?

>>2390044
>thinks we care
>doesn't know our exile made Tibetan buddhism the most popular and well known brand of buddhism across the world
>doesn't have a dalai lama

I ain't even mad, hinayana lower vehicle tier scum.

>>2390052
I'm sorry yak eater, but zen buddhism is the most popular buddhism of all time

>>2390056

<hello operator? vegetarian faggot detected

>>2390064
>Vajrayana fags can't into greentext

Martial art monks are best monks

/thread

ascetism is hard lol <(^_^)>

>Abstinence from Sex
>Abstinence from Rich Foods
>Abstinence from Drugs
>Abstinence from Alcohol
>Actively help the environment in little ways
>Am jobless
>Am not in school
>Have filled my head with everything from all the 4chan recommendation images
>Am in good physical shape, getting better each day

Am I the 4chan Ubermensch?

>>2390097
what is rich food?

>>2390100
It's where a rich fatass dies and leaves his money to his favourite hamburger.

>>2390097
>Have filled my head with everything from all the 4chan recommendation images

oh boy. that's where you fucked up, chuck...

>Why aren't you an ascetic, /lit/?
But I am!
>Why do you find joy in worldly pleasures?
2D is not a pleasure of this world.
>In case you guys don't know, Asceticism...
I know what it is.
>Übermensch
I already am one.

>>2387126
>>2387267
>>2389089
These.

And also, I would add something that I don't know if you agree with me, but you don't get to choose your lifestyle as much as you think. You think it's a choice, when it's something that you actually can't fight. The ascetic can't help but being an ascetic, it's something that they want (their journey) that requires them to be so and if they try to fight it, they get frustrated, if they try to combine one thing and the other, there is problem. I think it's not much of a matter of "aww I'd like to be enlightened too :(" *shave head, go away*. That's just imitating what others do. When you struggle to be enlightened (or whatever, it's just a word) and keep your hair and you fight it and fight it and then you realize that you need to shave your head(again, just an example), you do it.

I'm just curious...does asceticism require abstinence from things like music or film? Do those count as pleasures?

>>2390178
It requires abstinence from eating.

>>2390178
Do you cont as pleasures?

The word has a definition "to abstain yourself from wordly pleasures to seek higher purposes", how you define each one of those things is up to you.

If you watch movies and declare yourself an ascetic, you have to be able to defend your position without contradicting the basic definition.

>>2390178

Things like that depend on the ideological context in which you're practicing asceticism (i.e. a certain religion or philosophy or whatever.)

>>2390188
>wordly pleasures

is this 'ascetism' we speak of just about the same thing in relation to our post consumer capitalist society as monks who flagellated themselves in the face of the plague back in the middle age? basically like, 'oops, we messed up by whatever moral depravity, now we're going to set it right by self punishment.'

>>2390188

Sounds very subjective. I mean one could argue that simply feeling strong emotion (if it's happiness) could be "pleasure." Making music, or at least unascetic. But then you could argue that watching film/listening to music helps better understand the human condition and other people.

>>2390213
It is subjective. And yes, one could.

>>2389780
that's why I said 'i think'. I knew people wouldn't agree with me, because I'm not agreeing with Nietzsche.

DFW enjoyed tennis meaning he failed at this concept. ;_;

>>2390202
lol @ that picture

why would anyone listen to these retarded keynesians?

>>2390238
you're retarded. you can thank me later for this valuable lesson.

>>2390266
why so butthurt? pic related: it's american ascetism

>>2390269
Isn't that minimalism?

>>2390269
hey look its mcmansion guy from earlier. do you work in land speculation or development per chance?

Is nihilism somehow related to asceticism?

>>2390269
from the view of a dolt who watches too much tv, sure.

>>2390288
the asceticism of ubermensch that OP tries to allude to, yes. but ubermensch isn't actually anything to do with asceticism.

and the ascetic stoics believed in god so they're not nihilistic.

perhaps you could invent your own ascetic ambitions in accordance with nihilism by deciding to with draw from the world of ownership and frivolous activity

>>2390293
oops, projecting too much, try again.

bump

Hopefully browsing 4chan won't make me less of an ascetic.

>>2390568
with 'you want you lose threads' and 'check out my bookshelf', it most certainly will.

>>2390596
It might be good training. See Socrates:

>Often when looking at a mass of things for sale, he would say to himself, 'How many things I have no need of!"

>>2390604
Socrates was an ascetic?

>>2391933
Plato was.

>>2391933
Well, he lived simply and has been known to be able to endure hardships in anecdotes. He wasn't as extreme as Diogenes or something, but according to Ancient Greek civil standards he lived an unassuming life.

Plato was more of a decadent faggot I think.

> worldly pleasures...

> 2012
> not knowing the 4 noble truth

ISHYGDDT

>I have enough to eat till my hunger is stayed, to drink till my thirst is sated; to clothe myself withal; and out of doors not Callias there, with all his riches, is more safe than I from shivering; and when I find myself indoors, what warmer shirting do I need than my bare walls? what ampler greatcoat than the tiles above my head?

>>2392213
>>2392169
>>2391933
>>2390604
>the symposium
>a drinking party
>asceticism

http://www.Nope.com

>>2392386
Also, they loved banging 12 year old boys. This is not exactly what I would call an ascetic attitude.

Requires abstinence from sex, rich foods, drugs


To what end are these strange hoops jumped through?

>>2392394
To reach happiness by dominating your desires.
I still prefer to party hard and suffer the pain of need though.

The misery of this thread is that OP defines only a certain kind of asceticism and that most here seem to accept it.

Ancient Greek asceticism differed greatly from later Christian variants. One can live a perfectly simple life and not chase after things while still enjoying the occasial piece of ass or cup of booze. As Diogenes said:

>To the question what wine he found pleasant to drink, he replied, "That for which other people pay.

>>2392268
ne connaît pas la douceur de vivre

>>2392465
Vous êtes de la merde dans un bas de soie

All I need is my room, my computer and my books. I don't do sex/rich foods/drugs/smoke/alcohol. I don't party. I maybe once in a month get out to hang with my "friends". I don't like social gatherings that much. I call this a semi-ascetic life.
I mean I wish I could do all the normalfag stuff, be rich and all of that, but why to fool myself when that will never happen. I realized that this would be the best possible life for me.

>>2392471
You're an üntermensch for not striving to become something bigger and giving up just like that.

>>2392640

>>2392666
>666
I'm scared now.

>>2392640
That is not living a semi-ascetic life, that is just being conformed. If you somehow managed to appreciate all the other things, you would not go to that life, so there is no commitment.

I don't get it, /lit/.
No one agrees with OP's views on asceticism but at the same time whenever someone proposes rules of asceticism or quotes a famous philosopher, or its meaning all of you get mad.

So what the fuck is the real definition of asceticism? Can someone explain this to me?

I could survive without internet, sure. I'm not browsing now because I want to, I'm browsing because it's here and it draws me in.

>>2392699
A true ascetic would deny the worldly pleasure of definitions.

>>2392702
definitions are kinda integral to the Reason which ascetics strive

>>2387033

I find it unnatural.

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."

>>2392699
Because the philosophers had a point and lived by it, OP is att whore tripfag giving winks and trying to define things for us and said nothing for us "to agree with".

>>2392715

>>2390168

>>2392699
Real ascetics can only be absurdists and nihilists.

>>2392707
No they're not, that's positivists.

>>2392750
So Camus and Sartre were ascetics?
Wrong.
Speaking of worldly pleasures Camus enjoyed football, hanging with friends, and used to smoke.

>>2392750
you could not be more wrong. the stoics were all god fearing men

Only Asceticism is Christian Asceticism.
I don't see how anything else could exist.

>>2392750
Obviously not. Absurdism and nihilism don't imply any motive to live an ascetic life. Actually, they tend to be more often summoned as an excuse for a weak willed, comfortable kind of life. Or some kind of juvenile destructiveness, the more powerful version of a temper tantrum.

As for the definition of asceticism, I think the wikipedia does a fairly good job in it's opening sentence:

>Asceticism (from the Greek: ἄσκησις, áskēsis, "exercise" or "training") describes a lifestyle characterized by abstinence from various sorts of worldly pleasures often with the aim of pursuing religious and spiritual goals.

This may mean a lot of different things for a lot of different people. For me, it means training myself to live a simple and humble life, as the alternative is struggling and toiling for things I don't think will bring me happiness. This does not make it easy, however. Cultivating contentedness turns out to be quite hard work. But as I'm not willing to participate in the rat race more than necessary, I'm going to try to make it work. This may mean being left out in quite some occasions and missing experiences the average person will have. On the other hand, it will open up a whole other world for me. Let others stress over their mortgage and their children's education, I'll be enjoying my can of beans and taking stroll in the autumn sun.

>>2392640

You don't eat cookies? Drink soda? Eat chocolate? Anything with sugar? You might not be as ascetic as you think you are.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Schopenhauer in this thread. For me, he is the main philosopher to promote asceticism. I believe Nietzsche is more about affirming the individual's will whereas Schopenhauer argues no matter how much you do this it will ultimately lead to unhappiness as it will never be completely fulfilled. Therefore the way to happiness is to attempt to deny it. Cf Buddhism.

>mfw none of you know what asceticism means
/lit/ im disappoint

>>2393081
Where should I start with him? I've also read on /lit/ that he was a misogynist is this true?

>>2393239

>>2393081
you dont deny happiness. you realise the things you thought made you happy no longer do now that you've refined your appreciation of the self.

>>2393148
You might share a definition yourself then.

>>2393309
Beautifully said, anon.

>>0

Actually, it's more of Epicureanism than asceticism, because the main goal in his search for avoiding hunting pleasures is basal happiness, not any other spiritual achievement.

And for him it's fight agains your will for pleasures, not against pleasures themselves.

I can't be bothered to read this whole thread, but Asceticism is just about the antithesis of Ubermensch(ism).

Nietzsche would say by declining the natural world (asceticism), one becomes a Nihilist. The Ubermensch would be born from 'this-worldliness', which is the very opposite of where Ascetics find value

How is Nietzsche related to Asceticism in any way?

>>2393507
>Asceticism is just about the antithesis of Ubermensch(ism).

Pick related, it's the Übermensch.

>>2393730
Do you have Pick's?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pick%27s_disease

>>2393737
I'm Syrian.

>Zarathustra declares that the Christian escape from this world also required the invention of an eternal soul which would be separate from the body and survive the body's death. Part of other-worldliness, then, was the abnegation and mortification of the body, or asceticism. >Zarathustra further links the Übermensch to the body and to interpreting the soul as simply an aspect of the body.

>Others maintain that willing the eternal recurrence of the same is a necessary step if the Übermensch is to create new values, untainted by the spirit of gravity or asceticism. Values involve a rank-ordering of things, and so are inseparable from approval and disapproval; yet it was dissatisfaction that prompted men to seek refuge in other-worldliness and embrace other-worldly values. Therefore, it could seem that the Übermensch, in being devoted to any values at all, would necessarily fail to create values that did not share some bit of asceticism. Willing the eternal recurrence is presented as accepting the existence of the low while still recognizing it as the low, and thus as overcoming the spirit of gravity or asceticism.

So defeatism then?

>being an ascetic is a one step closer to becoming an Übermensch
No

>>2394532

Zarathustra himself is portrayed as living like a cynic ascetic however. And asceticism is by no means necessarily otherworldly. It can, in some ways, be a form of empowerment. As the Dog said:

>On being asked what he had gained from philosophy, he replied, "This at least, if nothing else — to be prepared for every fortune."

Most people are hostile of even those forms of asceticism. It is not the mortification of the body which they fear as much as the sacrifice of luxury and comfort. A healthy asceticism, which takes care of the body but refuses to make an effort to provide it with useless playthings, would seem to be more in accord with Nietzsche's philosophy than a life of decadence. In fact, Nietzsche himself was (especially in his later years) quite the ascetic, at least compared to the standards of his time.

But isn't asceticism just like nihilism?

Nihilists don't bother with material things, luxury, pleasures, social relations, and all the other stuff.
Atheists don't care about any of that stuff neither.

>>2394625
I meant to say ascetics not atheists.

>>2394625
>Nihilists don't bother with material things, luxury, pleasures, social relations, and all the other stuff.

not at all.

with your conception of nihilism, nothing would ever happen. good or bad. literally, everyone would just sit around doing absolutely nothing until they withered away. that's not nihilism means when it says there is no value or whatever.

nihilism means you're free to do whatever, within the bounds of physical constraints on existence.

nihilism is essentially a realists perspective. it recognises that morality is a battle. it doesn't stop you from fighting. in fact it makes you aware of the fact that you have to fight. it essentially tells you that whether you believe in god or not you are still engaged in a struggle and that it's much better to approach that struggle from a position that recognises the struggle itself instead of hiding behind the illusions of your own personal values in an attempt to convince yourself that there is no struggle and that there is a right way that will win regardless of whether you fight for it.

An ideal man has no needs, he has desires or else he is a simple object like a rock or a banana but he can't have needs. Every need he has makes him more of a woman. It is a person's needs that make it possible to exercise power over that person, to make him into a woman(breeding cattle) or a slave.

>>2394625
Which kind of nihilism do you mean? If we're talking about the existential variant, as in nothing has value, that doesn't necessarily lead to asceticism. I get the impression that people with nihilistic convictions tend to gravitate towards opportunistic, decadent hedonism. And even if this kind of nihilism leads one to live simply because it all doesn't seem to matter, this is merely a reaction, a form of resignation.

Asceticism is self-restraint to achieve some form of goal. They live the simple life because it has benefits according to their convictions. It is per definition a means, not a goal in itself.

None of you realize how irrelevant any of this is
This is just buddhism, nihilism -redux

Anti-human. Defeatist. Pathetic

The ends have, and always will, justify the fucking means. And you being happy in your tub of shit, hardly changes that you are covered in it.

The goal is pleasure. It always is. LOWERING YOUR STANDARD OF IT IS NOT THE SAME AS INCREASING IT

The only thing you can be sure of, putting the self aside, is that worldly things brings are worldly. Now when you put yourself into the equation, these worldly things become relative. For instance poison is bad because it would bring death. Death being an inherently bad thing for the self. The opposite of death is life. Now how can life be defined? Looking at examples life is kind of defined by will, the ability to impact the outside world.
The amount of will (read: life) varies. Humans being at the top of this. This is to say we are more alive than a dog; shown also by the fact that we have such obvious deeper experience than a dog.

So therefore on inherent "good" thing would be life ie will ie power.
So therefore, when it comes to the OUTSIDE WORLD and how it effects the self, power is always a good thing

>>2394719
Like I said in my post, the goal is pleasure.

The fact that, like you said, nihilists tend to be hedonistic shows you how irrelevant it is. The simple fact that feeling good > feeling bad throws nihilism right out the fucking window

It's here you begin to realize that your world revolves around you, and so should your way of living. How can you feel the maximum good

Ascetics (read DEFEATISTS) would say by learning to go without.
Ubermensch would say by learning to OBTAIN.

>>2394736

So the Übermensch would strive towards obtaining airconditioning or pay per view television? I think not. I think he would live in self-imposed austerity because he knows a life of luxury breeds decadence and his downfall. There is a reason the Spartans were so hard on themselves. It was to breed hard men.

Even if you would accent that hedonism is the main motive of human beings, the right way to pleasure would still be debatable. If I get my pleasure from the knowledge that my mind and body are strong, that my will is unwavering, that I can deal with the hardships that life throws at me and at the same time enjoy simple pleasures, than surely that is a position that would benefit me more in the long run than being a sickly, sniffling junky that undermined itself by trying to go the easy way. Asceticism in the ancient Greek sense breeds strong, capable individuals. Especially in these times where temptations, luxury and weakness are at their utmost peak this way of life is more necessary than ever.

Look towards every great man that ever lived, and you would find a man that above all things knew how to control himself, was master over himself. Self-mastery is attained by training of the will. This is achieved by some form of asceticism, because to train the will you have to confront yourself with matters that are not of your desire and still be able to work through them. If one is habituated to only obey his baser desires, he will become weak willed, decadent and will eventually decline. The strong have always preferred some form of self-imposed hardship, and hardship has always spawned strong people. Asceticism is the way to such a state, especially in a decadent society that doesn't bring forth strength of itself.

I'd rather be a wiry mutt than a bloated lapdog.

>>2394766
Are you a fucking nigger?
There is more to life than just first world living. There is conquest: my point
Get out of your complacent little head and realize that will is a lot more than self discipline. There is outside discipline, making the outside world conform with your will.
Everything you're talking about is completely irrelevant. You have your discipline, but what are you doing? It's pointless

You don't even realize the point of asceticism. It's pleasure. Serenity
But it's such a ass-backwards second hand way of achieving it. It's lowering the standards of pleasure to eliminate all of the side effects of not having it. It removes everything so all that is left is the little bit of serenity

All of you guys are fucken morons. What you fucking lack is a substantial fucking perspective.

Pick up a fucking grade 10 biology textbook, and a fucking intro to cosmology textbook. Then you'll finally fucken understand how to answer the stupid fuckin questions that faggy loners have been grappling with for thousands of years.

Here I'll save you the trouble.

-Living systems
-Bio-psychology
-Medusa(in relation to science)

There, you now understand why people should behave in a certain way: because it effects the living system is such and such way.

As far as a purpose, you assign one to your existence. Subjectivity and pointlessness are factors you actually have to be ignorant of to function (one of life's many great dichotomies). Don't let the vast purposelessness of life consume you, there in lies nothing.

You have to suspend the truth in that respect (which often is the greatest sin to commit in anyone's philosophy). But it's true.

All answers point to infinity, an infinity of pointlessness.

>>2394780
The point in OBTAINING would be to make the outside world conform with your will. Because your will is your serenity. Conquer and make it a reality

>>2394785
Subjectivity is delusion. Relativity is reality. What is good for that relative perspective is good, what is bad for it is bad
There is 1 right and a fuckload of wrongs

>>2394792
"Part of your comment isn't allowed to be posted :("

What the fuck?

What I don't understand is that 90% of the people here, defending or attacking asceticism, is seeing it as a sacrifice, as something that you'd have to impose on yourself and fight not to get out of it.

It makes asceticism look foolish all the way, as a kid refusing a piece of cake because "i told you mom! batman doesn't need cake! Vroooommm".

I think that the defense of asceticism, the reasons given for it, are only explaining something that is already there in you (or not). Denying these pleasures doesn't mean denying one's nature, sometimes, it's the contrary, it is in your nature to do it.

The argument is going like this
>Look at that ascetic... Doesn't even have a cellphone, what a loser
>Yes, I'm okay like this
>You being okay doesn't make you have a cellphone
>...Okay

>>2394805
Try 1337 speak bro

>>2394785
I disagree with almost everything that you said, it even makes me tired to think someone out there thinks like you do.

>>2394780
>Are you a fucking nigger?

You need some of that serenity yourself it seems.

>Everything you're talking about is completely irrelevant. You have your discipline, but what are you doing? It's pointless
Changing to world according to my vision, as far as I can. Creative philosophy, if you will. Why would you assume that my goal is merely a form of meek mental homeostasis?

>You don't even realize the point of asceticism. It's pleasure. Serenity
>But it's such a ass-backwards second hand way of achieving it. It's lowering the standards of pleasure to eliminate all of the side effects of not having it. It removes everything so all that is left is the little bit of serenity
There is no one point of asceticism. In my case it would be freedom and lack of self-deception and distraction. In another one's case it might be union with God. There are many ends to this tool.

>>2394815
Just tried bro. Fuck /lit/ and their nazi censorship.

What the fuck is this? Sorry can't post because you are using a word(s) that we don't like.

Mother fuckers.

>>2394820
What I'm saying is that anything other than "union with god" is irrelevant (there are no allegories I can say that wouldn't have you thinking I'm talking about being "pro chemicals")

God = everything that happens
The more you control what happens the more you are god.

Asceticism is an offshoot of buddhism, it would be easier to argue against the real thing

Arguing within this context:
It's superior to learn to live in the moment. Take a drug one minute and be ok the next minute when it is gone, no attachments in the purest sense, not even to a set of rules like asceticism

>>2394829
Honestly I'd be ok with you posting in a random thread somewhere else and linking it. I like to talk about this
Been in my room coming up with it for long enough

>>2394846
I think the first Buddha was an ascetic before he became the Buddha, if anything its an offshoot of Hinduism.

>>2394846
>Asceticism is an offshoot of buddhism, it would be easier to argue against the real thing

What? Asceticism has been around since the dawn of mankind.

Somewhat related question:
Was Meursault an ascetic or a nihilist?

>>2394846
You're theories make no sense, ho away.

>>2394935
What makes you think that he was any of those?

>>2394935

He was more like the last man. With a faint hint of rebellion left.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Thus_Spake_Zarathustra/Prologue#5

>>2394935
he's neither in particular. he's just the epitome of honesty when it comes to the question of whether one should comply with society's conventions.

>>2395023
don't know what 'the last man' is but Mersault is just a guy who doesn't do what everyone does for the sake of a simple life and that is. he just speaks his true feelings. if someone asks him if he believes in god, he answers truthfully without regard for his company, if someone asks if feel bad for his mother dying or for shooting a man, he answers honestly. it's not really an act of overt rebellion. it's just the way he feels and he sees no reason to lie about that.

>paying for shelter
>paying for food
>paying for art
>paying for transport

>2012

>>2387033
cause im not a boring cunt

>>2395092
how do you get any of those things otherwise?

>>2395099
>hide in car parks, cash and carries, public buildings over night
>steal fruit and food from groceries that leave some things outside the shop and can't be fucked reporting petty thefts even if they own the stock
>libraries, museums, computers, sitting outside concert halls
>walking, hogging the toilets on trains until next stop

>>2395092
Yeah but you still stink of shit and haven't shaved in years

>>2395099
For shelter you need a roof and four walls. You may use mud on top of a wooden foundation, which is much easier to do than most people think. For food, you are able to plant things and fish, if you are a strong dude you may also hunt. You don't need to pay for art, you do it yourself and you take what people offer you for free. And for transport, there is no value to transport if you're not making an effort with your own legs.

Of course, it's all impossible for us, because we are city people like our parents and our grandparents before that and we've forgotten all of that, because we have a different reality presented to us. A reality in which you use machines to move and walk on top of stones, exchange good for abstract numbers and papers and must apply to the social standards.

Wow this thread is just embarrassing.
I'm surrounded by stupid fucking people.

>>2395231
I know, we too.

>>2395231
Oh, so you would rather discuss Sasha Grey? Fucktard.

>>2395092
this i dunno why people living in 1st world countries are dumb enough to do 9 till 5 work or schooling.

>>2395262
Please, read this: http://www.logicalfallacies.info/

>>2387033
>Asceticism is a way of life that requires abstinence from sex, rich foods, drugs
Holy shit I've been an ascetic all my life.

Jesus, this thread made me rage so hard.

This is clearly a troll thread, and I'm not sure anymore who is trolling and who isn't.

Picture related.

I'm still waiting for The Importance to come here and share his insight on asceticism here, until then I'll remain silent.

>>2395475
I'm still waiting for Deist to say something.

I'm still waiting for D&E to say something.

>>2395446
Glorious pic.

>mfw my comments aren't in it

why don't hedonists realize that the only things that bring true happiness are social status and power?

>>2395548
I'm sorry bro, there was so many retards and it's a small picture. And also I kind of agree with what you said so nah.

>>2395532
>>2395524
I'm still waiting for the Scottish idiotic, subhuman, attention whoring trash to say something.

I'm an ascetic, but not by choice :/

>>2395681
What do you mean? Hugless, kissless, friendless virgin and also a poorfag? lol

>>2395552
It's all good. If you ever go full blown cynic there might be a commune called the Dog Pound with like minded arete bums for you to lay your head in the near future. Just bring your raggedy clothed self and a garbage bag of belongings and you can join us in our feast of beans and onions and maybe a bit of hustled wine.

Erryone getting mad because being an ascetic is truly the best way to spend your live.

>>2395970

Truly boring, you mean.

You only have one life, man. Just have some fun while you still have it.

>>2395973
>implying ascetics can't fuck bitches and drink
>implying all ascetics are religious
>implying they don't just stop chasing material posessions in order to busy themselves with philosophy and above mentioned activities

>>2395985
Exactly. Some people are just too dumb to realize this. Asceticism is what you make it to be.

I'm not an ascetic because it's a fucking waste of my time. I have one life, and I'm not about to spend it enjoying nothing.

Proselytizing ITT.

I'm sorry other paths, but Jainism is the most ascetic of all time.

>>2396152
Proselytizing? Are you sure you know the meaning of that word.

>>2395532
Shit, D&E is now online. Hopefully he as a student of philosophy or a wannabe student of philosophy will share his thoughts on asceticism with us.

http://members.optushome.com.au/davidquinn000/Diogenes%20Folder/Diogenes.html
http://www.naturalthinker.net/trl/texts/DiogenesofSinope/

bump

>>2397458
no use reviving it now, after 300 posts, it won't bump anymore.

It's lived far enough. Just let it die in peace.

>>2387058
Do you fap to your waifu?
Anyways, its an unearthly pleasure, so I think its OK.
I've all but given up fapping with the exception of loving vanilla sex scenes with one particular character. Feels amazing.

>>2387121
>Chances are very strong that you only get one life and there is nothing after it and you dumb fucks spend it avoiding any sort of pleasure?
Chances are strong you only get one life and there is nothing after it, do you really want to spend that time masturbating and eating and the such?
Try not jerking off for a week, it feels amazing. Try not eating for a day, you'll feel more alive then you ever have before.
Life is all there is, why would I want to spend it mindlessly pleasuring myself while depriving myself from any true pleasure?

The greatest pleasure I've ever experienced is looking at the sky and the ocean and seeing them melt into one, the warmest touch I've ever felt has been from the sun shining on my cheeks, the sweetest scent I've ever smelt has been from the flowers and the berries mixing with the soft summer breeze, no amount of money or distractions or sex will ever be able to replace these things, the ascetic lifestyle is the best.

>>2387078
So was Ayn Rand an idiot?

>>2397518
I used to fap to my waifu in the past, but now I feel very bad about it.
Also I like your philosophy of life, very wise of you :3

>>2395446
Oh god

>>2394810
>>2394810
>>2394810

I posted this, no one was contrary to it, but people keep seeing the ascetic life as something inheritly bad.

>>2397518
Money, sex, drugs, etc can do more, but it's much easier being satisfied with less.
The ascetic attitude does not imply that you don't have desires, but that the desires don't have you.
So if you get a bottle of wine, you won't throw it away but drink and enjoy it.
learn from that dog:
When asked what wine he found most pleasant to drink, Diogenes replied, "That for which other people pay."

>>2395446
Who's the guy in that "hedonism" flag? I know it's one of the ancient Greek philosophers, but I don't know which one?

>>2397684
Epicurus?

>>2397692
Ah yes, thanks a lto!

the cyrenaics were here

epicurus was a fag and so are the rest of you ascetics

>>2397700
Everything is equally justifiable. So if you call one thing gay, naturally it applies to all. You just called yourself a fag.

>>2397700
Pleasure can come of suffering. Your argument is invalid.

>>2397719
What argument? Did you just read a wikipedia page about the cyrenaics and came back to post that idiotic one-liner?

>>2397718
>taking an obviously facetious post seriously
>implying i'd be in any way annoyed at being a fag

also

>Everything is equally justifiable.

no, it's not. so, if you're done being retarded, please kill yourself.

>>2397700

Um, Epicurus was the ultimate anti-ascetic. Critics condemned him as a hedonist.

Did you meant Epictetus, he of The Golden Sayings? Fuck that guy. Long rambling kill joy Yoda.

>>2397766
Isn't Epicurus the guy who wrote that essay about God? "If he's omnipotent then why..." etc, then some philosopher from the 17th century re-wrote it or something like that.

>>2397925
He is.

>>2397766
Epicurus was basically a vegetarian water drinker that didn't fuck anybody. His hedonism was more about the evasion of suffering than the achievement of sensual pleasures. His teachings have more similarities with those of Buddha than the Marquis de Sade.