/lit/ - Literature

>>23855168
Yes.

The books are still worth reading. That Jackson films are pretty faithful, but they don't depict everything and they make a fairly significant number of changes, not all of them justified because of it being a movie.

>>23855172
I was just going to say they're too big only to realize I read a fanfic the other day that is probably more lengthy.

>>23855168
I've read the books (including the Hobbit) and I haven't watched the movies. AMA

Alright, I've downloaded The Fellowship of the Ring once, watched 30 minutes of it, got bored as fuck and that's all I've seen from the adaptations.

>>23855172
>but they don't depict everything and they make a fairly significant number of changes,
Like

>>23855211
I do not believe you

>>23855168
Yes. I got filtered before they even left the shire.

>>23855219
A lot of people don't believe me, but to put it simply, as a kid I was into sci-fi and I've considered fantasy very lame (I still kind of do). Every time LOTR was on the TV, I was leaving because I didn't give a single fuck, my parents didn't give a fuck either because both of them were sci-fi buffs, and even my parents were telling me that LOTR is lame.

One time I've decided to see what that Tolkien guy is all about, so I downloaded an epub of LOTR (I've read the Hobbit already because it was required for school where I live) and I kind of liked it. Thing is, I don't enjoy watching movies that much anymore, so I fell asleep before they even left the Shire if I remember correctly, and it didn't really entertain me since I knew what was going to happen.

>>23855212
>No journey to Buckland
>No meeting or stay with the elves lead by Gildor Inglorion
>No Tom Bombadil
>No Barrow Downs
>Almost none of the songs
>Glorfindel is replaced with Arwen
>Arwen is initially hostile to Aragorn for some reason (in the books Glorfindel greets Aragorn excitedly and with open arms)
>Arwen creates the magical wave the destroys the Nazgul (in the books, its Elrond and Gandalf)
>No mention of the fact that Frodo is left slightly transparent after being stabbed with the morgul blade
>Isildur's broken sword Andúril is not reforged during the stay in Rivendell, but is held off until Return of the King for some reason. In the book, Aragorn had it from the time he initially left Rivendell with the Fellowship
>Added in a romance with Arwen (the romance is canonical, but only hinted at until Return of the King)
>Gimli suggests going through Moria (in the books, it was Gandalf)
>Gimli thinks Moria is fine and they'll receive a warm and gracious welcome by Balin's party (in the book, he was well aware that something bad had gone down in Moria, but wanted to check in on Balin anyway)
>In general, Gimli is portrayed as a comic relief character in the movies, where he's serious and nuanced character in the books
>In a similar vein, Legolas isn't an overpowered anime character in the books
>In the books, there's more of a conflict between the Uruk-hai of Isengard the kidnap Merry and Pippin and the orcs of Mordor they run into
>In the books, the orcs of Mordor (along with all servants of Mordor) use a red eye symbol to identify themselves in a similar way to how the orcs of Isengard use a white hand.
>The tree ents don't know about what Saruman has been up to and generally want to remain isolationist until they make that discovery (in the books, they are very aware of what Saruman has been up to and decide to go to war with him at their council
>In the books, Treebeard shares an "ent draught" with Merry and Pippin that makes them grow physically larger, and they are henceforth known as the largest Hobbits that ever lived in the Shire
>In the books, while the ents defeat Isengard, they aren't about to remove Saruman from the tower of Orthanc, and Saurman does not meet his end there
>The Battle of Helm's Deep is not nearly as big of a deal in the books. It's like two paragraphs.
>Faramir does not take the Frodo and Sam to Osgiliath in the books, he lets them go after taking them to his hideout
>In general, Faramir is a more wise and savvy character in the books instead of an idiot single-mindedly obsessed with getting his father's approval like in the movies
>There is no "Gollum tricks Frodo into distrusting Sam" plot in the books
>Gollum never turns good in the books (at least not explicitly so)
>In the books, the Men of Rohan speak in a flowery Elizabethan English in the books, while the Men of Gondor speak in Old Testament.
>The Drúedain are completely missing in the movies
3000 word limit. Could go on.

>>23855275
>>No Tom Bombadil
Thank goodness.

>>23855256
Proof scifi nerds are literally soulless

>>23855275
Based list anon

>>23855275
The movies are vastly superior to this.

>>23855275

High effort posting, thabks fren

>>23855275
Look at all this cope and seethe.

Any of you chuds read this:

Its mostly focuses on the way that Tolkiens knowledge of Germanic languages and history informed the lotr and other works.

Its hard going but if you stick it out its worth reading.

In the newest edition there is a chapter about the PJ film adaptations whoch is 30 pages and really worth a look.

>>23855298

Forgot pic lol

>>23855168
I hate how the elves are all just noping out. Like, bro if you die you go to that undying land shit anyway. Stay and fight, cowards

>>23855280
Most of these are not wrong though, there are caveats to them, that are not mentioned, but they are not wrong.

No, I read them all in middle school, and the movies came out during high school and I hated them. They made the dwarves as lame as possible in the films, they were more like Peurto Ricans than dwarves.

>>23855302
You underestimate just how terrifying Sauron was. This goes for both the Elves and Men. Both of them were absolutely afraid. It is yet another thing that the movies failed to convey properly. Just like they fucked up the entire siege of Minas Tirith. That is why the presence of these heroic figures is all the more important to kindle the flame of hope within their hearts.

>>23855168
Yes... what kind of question is that?

>>23855329
...what is the pointing of reading three long ass books when there are movies?

>>23855168
Read the Hobbit before and the trilogy after seeing Fellowship in the cinema

>>23855275
You forgot how the movies butchered Denethor. Denethor is legitimately tragic in the books and his fall is pitiable. In the movies he's a dopey weirdo.

>>23855275
I'll go on.
>In the books, Denethor lights the beacons of Minas Tirith before Gandalf and Pippin even arrive.
>In the books, there is no drama about Theoden not wanting to come to Gondor's aid
>In the books, the Battle of Pelennor Fields was not won single-handedly by the Dead Men of Dunharrow
>In the books, Eowyn is not the "everywoman" character she is in the movies. She's essentially an elegant princess type that has a harder edge as a shield maiden in times of war
>In the books, Eowyn is also fully aware that she is riding to her death when she rides out in disguise with the Rohirrim
>Eowyn has a bit of a banter with the Witch King of Angmar in the books that got shortened and replaced with "I am no man!" in the movies
>Faramir's ill-fated mission isn't a pointless suicide charge into Osgiliath in the books, it's a mission to harass and slow enemies attempting to cross the river
>Faramir is mostly saved from burning by a guard in the books, aided in the last minute by Gandalf and Pippin.
>Denethor isn't this stupid asshole in the books like he is in the movies. He's a stern and harsh man with a chip on his shoulder and who is slowly giving in to despair. Seeing Faramir poisoned and seemingly on death's door makes him give up all hope. He doesn't die in a ridiculous spectacle of running off the city tower while on fire, but actually remains on his pyre clutching the Minas Tirith palantir
>The Witch King of Angmar does not toss Gandalf around in the books. He and Gandalf have a bit of a standoff before Rohan shows up and causes the Witch King to retreat back to meet them. It is *highly* unlikely that the Witch King would have been any match for Gandalf the White.
>Sam has a bunch of scenes in Mordor that are missing from the movies. In fact, Sam is the perspective character for the whole of the Return of the King.
>There's a whole part of the Return of the King that is dedicated to Aragorn fulfilling prophesies related to kingship, especially his power of healing. "The hands of a king are the hands of a healer."
>The celebrations after the ring is destroyed play out a bit differently in the books
>There is no Scouring of the Shire in the movies

Me.
I last read the books when I was in school and I skimmed. I am rereading now and actually reading.

>>23855168
the movies aren't watchable, they're amerikitsch, even tho made by an ausfag

>>23855466
>books are better at depicting long form content than movies and painful sacrifices will have to be made to make a movie series that encompasses an epic legend
I feel like the person asking you was either trolling you or just needs to read the books.

>>23855168
The Jackson movies got me into the books. Now, after reading them four times through, I find the Jackson movies almost unwatchable. Chris was right, unfortunately.

>>23855172
Succinctly said.

>>23855172
I came to the realization LOTR started to crumble when Hackson made Hobbit. The excesses and idiotic decisions are things you in retrospect find in primarily Return of the King. Much like how Lucas making three shitty prequels made people stop and see the same patterns in Return of the Jedi.

The audiobook version Serkis made is fantastic though. It’s like the ideal fusion as he does the voices of the main cast close enough to count.

>>23855884
A lot of these aren't really justifiable with "it's a movie." Some are removing or consolidating scenes to save time, sure, but others aren't time saving at all and better yet, many of the changes add scenes that weren't in the books, like pretty much all scenes with Arwen that aren't part of her replacing Glorfindel, Frodo and Sam being taken to Osgiliath, the whole extra plotline of Gollum spreading mistrust between Frodo and Sam, etc.

>>23855211
Literally me. I am a mega sperg for everything he wrote, especially the 12 volume History series.

The first movie made me fall asleep. They ain't Lord of the Rings, they are grimdark teen action movie. It's hard (impossible) to find people IRL who are into the books, but anytime you throw a stone you come across a movie fan. It's not really possible to talk with the move fans, because it's so different.

>>23855341
If you're the type of person who would rather watch a movie than read a book then what the hell are you doing here?

Did Frodo and Bilbo have jobs? Or are they just neets living off of inherited wealth until Gandalf forces them out of the house to go on an adventure where they accumulate enough treasure that they and the next Baggins can live comfortably unemployed?

>>23856936
the latter but if I remember cofrectly dildo vaggins was a poor neet yet comfortable eith ehat he had and then gandalf csme in and kicked him on an adventure, then he got shitload of gold from under smaug's ass.

>>23855466
other ones I remember
>Gandalf battles the Nazgul at Weathertop before the Hobbits and Strider arrive, Frodo can vaguely see it in the distance as a lightning storm
>Eriador is more explicitly meant to be a post-apocalyptic dark ages ruin of a formerly great kingdom
>Isildur isn't "corrupted" by the Ring into refusing to destroy it as in the films. He takes it as weregild payment for Sauron slaying his father and brother in battle
>Boromir in the books is just an asshole the entire time. His character in the films has more nuance DESU
>Aragorn doesn't hide the fact that he's Isildur's heir at all. In fact when they leave Moria his plan is to march on Minas Tirith with Boromir until the Hobbits get abducted and Boromir gets killed
>Gimli's character in the books is a lot more sensitive and thoughtful, his character was handled the worst in the films
>Most importantly: the giant fiery red eye does not exist in the books. It's Sauron's sigil and his "eye" or gaze is felt by characters via the palantir. In the books he has a corporal body lurking away somewhere in Barad Dur and he personally tortured Gollum

>>23857162
>Saruman doesn't conjure the storm that forces them into Moria; it's the mountain Caradhras itself that is malevolent and tries to kill travelers
>The elves vs dwarves shtick is in the book but played up a lot more in the films. Gimli and Legolas are bros in the books and promise each other they'll go adventuring in woods and mountains together when the quest is finished
>surprisingly the competition between Legolas and Gimli to kill the most orcs IS in the books, and a lot of the dialogue used in the film is straight from the source
>the retreating Uruk Hai at Helms Deep are killed by a moveable sentient forest
>Saruman overtly tries to steal the ring from Sauron with zero pretenses to return it to him with the goal of establishing himself as the new dark lord. His betrayal is much more spelled out in the book and the fellowship characters talk about how fucked he would have been had Sauron beaten Gondor and then marched on him
>Eomer is actually present at the Battle of Helm's Deep, neither he nor the Riders of Rohan are ever sent into exile by Theoden. Gandalf arrives with reinforcements from a different part of Rohan and some random lord
>There are no elves at Helm's Deep other than Legolas. As another anon said it's like a page and a half entry in the book. The use of gunpowder is only indirectly attested also because they never see what causes the explosion

>>23855168
Honestly, the books were exceptional in adapting some of the books' strongest passages and improving on them (knifes in the dark, shadows of the past, Lothlorien etc). They even fixed Two Towers' pacing issues.

Too bad they became a CGI-fest by the 3rd movie

>>23855275
>No journey to Buckland

Half the book takes place in the Shire which is like 1/10 of the distance Frodo has to take until the Anduin. The movies does well with reducing time spent at the Shire

>No Tom Bombadil and less songs

Wouldn't have translated well to the big screen

>Glorfindel is replaced by Arwen

Glorfindel is a peculiar characer and too OP for my taste.

>Arwen is initially hostile to Aragorn for some reason (in the books Glorfindel greets Aragorn excitedly and with open arms)

It's very clearly implied they have some prehistory that the viewer can immediately deduce things are bitter between them

>>Isildur's broken sword Andúril is not reforged during the stay in Rivendell, but is held off until Return of the King for some reason. In the book, Aragorn had it from the time he initially left Rivendell with the Fellowship

Don't we get a scene in the extended edition where Aragorn reforges Anduril? I must have forgotten about it

>In general, Gimli is portrayed as a comic relief character in the movies, where he's serious and nuanced character in the books

Gimli also playes the part of comic relief in the book. He's not that vastly different from the movie version

>In a similar vein, Legolas isn't an overpowered anime character in the books

One of the bigger sins of the movie trilogy

>In the books, there's more of a conflict between the Uruk-hai of Isengard the kidnap Merry and Pippin and the orcs of Mordor they run into

There's still conflict in the movie but they don't make clear the distinction between the many factions of Orcs

>The tree ents don't know about what Saruman has been up to and generally want to remain isolationist until they make that discovery (in the books, they are very aware of what Saruman has been up to and decide to go to war with him at their council

This was done for pacing reasons as the whole Ent-business is resolved in 30 pages while in the movie it's drawn out alongside Rohan's and Frodo's stories

>>23855181
In total all three books are less than the first Sanderson book in the Stormlight Archive. Which really put it in perspective to me because I read that just to see what he was all about. I realized, if I could read that, I could blow through LotR, but I won't. I'll take my sweet time savoring it like I did the Hobbit.
>Verification not required.

>>23857488
I'm not against long books but those door stoppers that are PART 1 of X really put me off. Because you know damn well it's going to be a whole lot of fluff without a lot of focus. And when you compare it to Tolkien who managed to cram in all his history, lore as well as a his story into a scant 1200 odd pages or so when these yahoos need 900 for a prologue you really start to be mindful of efficiency in writing.

>>23857498
Yeah, that's part of the point in my revelation. I think you're absolutely correct. There are many instances of Sanderson's prose that make me think "this could have been halved in word count and said the same thing without losing authenticity to the ideas behind it."

>>23857498
Publishing houses force established writers into writing long series to keep sales high, constant and somewhat 'predictable'. Their market studies show that most readers want more of the stuff set in universes/IPs they already like as opposed to new stuff. of course the writers who are in it just for the money happily comply.

>>23855298
Writing LOTR, Tolkien was not at all an aggregator of different myths from all around the world as some people claim. He was actually primarily concerned with Germanic myths and even talked shit on "celtic" myths.
The most heavy handed inspiration for LOTR are the Germanic myths about the Battle of the Goths and the Huns and the Hervarar saga in particular. The Orcs are actually based on Roman accounts of the Huns who were an asian population to an extent who also practiced self-mutiliation and the account of their religion said they worshipped a divine flaming sword which would conquer the world. Even names are directly lifted from the Hervarar Saga like "Mirkwood" and the overarching plot is similar with it following a cursed and powerful sword as it passes from different owners.

>>23855318
Being brave is being scared shitless and fighting anyway.
Being a coward is what the Elves did.
At least Legolas had the balls to fight.

>>23855280
>>23855303
>Elves would never fight each other

Feanor has entered the chat

>>23855302
They didn't abandon Middle-Earth for Sauron, they abandoned it because of the slow corruption of the land. Their descendants (Aragorn) fought. They also fought in the Hobbit and fought in the past. But at the end of the day it was time to go. Even Frodo and Gandalf did.

>>23855168
I thought Aragorn was black

>>23855419
Love me Dwarves.
Though I wish people would stop making female dwarves in DnD have beards just cause LOTR does it.

>>23857982
Whoops.

>>23857982
In LotR, it's basically a joke. It's an explanation for why all dwarves appear male. A proper bearded female dwarf would be indistinguishable from male dwarves to pretty much all non-dwarves.

>>23857985
Until she started talking.

>>23857983
Is that a Sargon of Akkad dwarf on the right

>>23857982
Dwarven women never had beards and D&Done is not a good representation of Tolkien.

>>23857999
>Dwarven women never had beards
But they do or are you saying loreshit youtubers lied to me

>>23857983

>>23857983
I- Longbeards, similar culture to Anglo-Saxons.

II- Stonefoot similar culture to ancient Canaanites

III a- Northern Firebeards, similar culture to British Celts

III b- Southern Firebeards, similar culture to Continental Celts

IV- Broadbeams, similar culture to the Germanic tribes

V a- Ironfists nobility’s “Sverð”. Similar culture to the ancient Norse. Made of meteoric steel (Star Iron).

V b- Ironfists commoner’s “Langseax”

VI a- Northern Stiffbeards, similar culture to the Inuit. Handle carved from mammoth’s Ivory.

VI b- Southern Stiffbeards, similar culture to Mongols and Himalayan peoples.

VII- Blacklocks, similar culture to Akkadians, Sumerians, Assyrians and Babylonians.

>>23855168
The books stopped being canon when Rings Of Power released so why bother

>>23858012
Why do you get your information through lore YouTubers? Read books.

>>23858012
https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Dwarf-women
Yes

>>23858038
>In The War of the Jewels, all Dwarves are described as having beards, including women. In later writings published in The Nature of Middle-earth, Tolkien did not discuss female Dwarves when listing the characters he imagined with or without beards, simply mentioning that all male Dwarves had beards.

>>23857539
That may be well and good but I'm sure more casuals will also be far more willing to pick up shorter books that are likewise part of a series. Kids were going crazy over stuff like Dragonlance in my school.

>>23858042
>Is real in my mind

>bookfags ideal film adaptation would be 100 hours of narration and characters talking

>>23858042
It sounds like JRR thought it was funny but then was like "nah is dumb" so just ignored it.

>>23858070
Was Tolkein.. woke?

>>23858085
In modern sense? No.
In his day? Yes.

>>23858069
Yes

>>23858069
Yes? Of course it would.

>>23857488
>>23857498
>Get told that this is Sanderson's best book
>It's literally a thousand page prologue
The LotR equivalent to this would be if Fellowship of the Ring was just about Frodo dicking around in the Shire (with occasional cutaways of Aragorn dicking around in Bree, Legolas dicking around in Mirkwood and Gimli dicking around in Erebor) and the book ended on Gandalf revealing the true nature of Bilbo's ring to Frodo as a twist. And The Way of Kings is significantly longer than Fellowship of the Ring. I'm a good chunk into the second book and they still haven't "formed the Fellowship" as it were. So basically Sanderson spent a whole book doing the setup and he's STILL dragging his feet on getting the actual plot started.

It might be okay if Sanderson at least pretended that any of the shit that's happening actually mattered, but he's pretty clear from the get-go that it doesn't. The Shattered Plains are a pointless Forever War and there's absolutely no reason to want to see the Alethi win, since they're a decadent empire lead by a corrupt, bloodthirsty nobility who are mostly just there to enrich themselves by hunting chasm fiends into extinction, and their stated war goal is basically Total Parshendi Death genocide for hiring a hitman to kill their king. Hell, most of your initial perspective of the war is from the fucking slaves they're using as arrow fodder.

I get that there's about to be a bunch of guys who are much worse than the Alethi Empire about to drop in on this conflict with a steel chair as it were, but Sanderson is taking his sweet fucking time getting there.

>>23858069
You don't get the "it would make the movie too long" excuse when Jackson added in scenes that weren't in the books.

Arwen romance.
Frodo taken to Osgiliath.
Gollum sowing distrust between Frodo and Sam.

>>23858195
those parts are just to keep the normalfags entertained

>>23858195
And the lest said about the hobbit TRILOGY the better. I mean I know it's a different set of films and it doesn't take away from the LOTR trilogy but it still makes me mad.

I wish we got more Elves..
>looks at RoP
No not like that!

>>23858219
STFU faggot

>>23855658
i thought you were dead, christopher?

>>23858326
It's true though

>>23855168
I watched the movies many times, absolutely love them, and I decided to read the book for the first time this year.
Honestly, it’s a completely different experience, I don’t think there’s even a point in comparing them tbqh, but I do think I felt more with the movies than with the books.

The emotions that were conveyed to me during both experiences were different and happened at different times.

For example, my favourite parts of the movies are Theoden’s speech before the charge at Pelennor (that whole apocalyptic “we’re riding to our death, but this is the end of the world anyways so we might aswell die heroically” vibe really gives me the shivers everytime, and you have that music, that has been the leitmotiv of hope for the whole trilogy except it’s been sung by a child or a woodwind, but now it’s the whole fucking orchestra blasting it, pure kino) and the final struggle between Frodo and Gollum inside Mount Doom (the dichotomy between the giant armies of men and orcs fighting in front of the black gate, powerful heroes and giant creatures giving it their all, but what really matters is a pathetic fistfight between two insignificant creatures and their minuscule ring, the fact that it’s Gollum who ends up saving the world, proving Gandalf’s wisdom right, Gollum being finally happy for a few seconds before his death as he gets his ring back, Frodo surviving because Sam saves him at the last moment, and that female singing).

On the other hand I didn’t feel much in these parts reading the book. Maybe I’m just more sensitive to the cinema medium than I am to literature, but they felt extremely dry and bland, as if I was reading an after-action-report of what had happened in Middle-Earth.

I liked the parts in the very beginning where they travel from the Shire to Bree, and then to Rivendell, meet Tom Bombadil etc, I liked Helm’s Deep, which was very different from the movies. Sadly no “at dawn, look to the east”, which I really loved in the films, but the whole bit with the caves and the battle happening in two parts I really loved, also none of that retardation of elves joining just to did lol.

I must say the battles in general were much better in the books, the movies suffer from that typical Hollywood retardation of “two blobs of retards running at eachothers” but the books have amazing descriptions of the troop movements, tactics etc. that an history autist like myself can appreciate.

All in all the movies felt more like a romantic, almost Wagnerian experience whereas the books felt like reading an old legendary tale, which I believe was exactly what they were both respectively trying to achieve.
I must say I, personally, was more sensitive to the movies though, but I’ve only read the books once so my opinion might change.

>>23859187
Imagine thinking that generic hollywood slop is some epic wagnerian experience. Instead of the vivid and poetical descriptions of Tolkien.

>a farmer tells a Wraith to fuck off and it does.

>>23858069
Who told you my plans?!

>>23858069
False.
69 hours 69 minutes and 69 seconds.

>>23858069
These days it with the projects Amazon, HBO, and Netflix keep greenlighting making a series where each episode is an hour or so long adaptation of a single chapter isn't outside the realm of possibility.
Fellowship of the Ring
Season 1: Book I, 12 episodes
Season 2: Book II, 10 episodes
Two Towers
Season 3: Book II, 11 episodes
Season 4: Book IV, 10 episodes
Return of the King
Season 5: Book V, 10 episodes
Season 6: Book VI, 9 episodes

>>23857983
Neat art

>>23860305
You know that really makes the Rings of Power all the more depressing when you think about it. I love the movies but I would absolutely not be opposed to say a three season new adaption that really sank into the slow burn of the books. But instead of doing a new take on the material they had to go in for the prequel shared universe meme.

Tell me about Numenoreans

>>23855466
No Barrow Downs or Scouring really pissed me off the most. some of the character changes, like I guess I could roll with them though. always wished that a production company would do high quality shorts that are 1:1 faithful to parts of books. not sure how they would make money but there's all that Internet money.

>>23855168
>>23855172
>Book 1
>Tom Bombadil and Goldberry
>Book 2
>Barrow-Downs, Extended exposition of the Riddermark, Helm's deep is just a paragraph
>Book 3
>Extended exposition of Theoden's death, Saruman owns Hobbiton

>>23855168
Yeah, I did. Plotwise, the movies follow the novel pretty well, but it's more mystical and therefore has a very different feel. The movies indulge in action a bit too much and sometimes can feel more like medieval hack-and-slash thrillers than a fantasy epic. They're still great movies, but the book is really a work of art.

>>23857257
Some of this stuff is in the extended version but was taken out.

The movable forest appears at the end of two towers and we hear it crush the uruk hai.

>>23857313
I don't think Arwen is hostile with Aragorn. I think she's flirting

>>23860585
>Anon expects people around here to know what its like for a woman to flirt with them
Flee while you can.

>>23855168
All your bad guys die and your good guys survive!
We can tell what's gonna happen by page and age five!

>>23855168
I did. Personally I don't know where people came up with the "Tolkein describes a tree for a whole page" complaining. 90% of those books is inane dialogue, not description.

Might as well post this here, too. It's Tolkien writing a letter to a friend, talking about the Elves. Thoughts?

>>23855168
Yeah, I watched them on a long flight after kind of writing them off for years and I was blown away that they lived up to the hype.
It inspired me to go back and try to read the books again after failing to get through the first half of Fellowship as a kid, and I was even more blown away how much better the books are.
I'm glad I experienced them in the right order to be amazed by both of them. Even now knowing the books are better I'm still incredibly impressed with how well the movies adapted them.

>>23860558
They are quite big.

>>23860558
ThE SeA Is aLwAyS RiGhT

>>23860647
For you

>>23855168
I watched the LotR movies years ago, so while I do remember scenes and the overall plot they're not fresh in my mind. I started reading The Hobbit last year, now I'm reading The Silmarillion after finishing LotR and I love it.

>>23855466
>>23857162
>>23857257
The army of the dead wasn't even present on the Pelennor fields. To add to this, I think the movies' biggest sin was downplaying Frodo. He grows wiser and wiser during his quest, and even at the start he's incredibly courageous.

For example he stands his ground against all nine nazgûl while on the brink of (un)death; when he arrives at the Morannon, the front gate of Mordor, probably the closest thing on Middle-earth to a door into hell at that point in time, he basically tells Sam "I'll have to march in if I have to" and Gollum has to convince him to take the route through Cirith Ungol. There's genuinely few people with balls that big in the history of Middle-earth, at least from what I've read so far.

>>23860634
If Amazon gets a hold of this we're doomed.

>>23855168
>Aragorn is described as "lean, dark, and tall," with "a shaggy head of dark hair flecked with grey, and in a pale stern face a pair of keen grey eyes."
So why is he black

>>23855168
The Hobbit is a good book but the films are quite bad, especially when compared to LOTR. That said, I do like the Hobbit movies but they are not well made films.

>>23860634
I agree, but it applies more to the Noldor.

>>23855275
>Legolas isn't an overpowered anime character in the books
Needed to give you something to do in the vidya gaymens

>>23860749
>Noldor
My favorite elves.

>>23860755
They were right about everything and they suffered for it.

The 4h Tolkien cut of the Hobbit is watchable.
>>23860223
Maggot was OP. That's why he was friends with Tom

>>23860768
True but its better to be right and suffer than to be wrong and suffer. Because at least you were right.

>>23860768
Thee kinslaying of the Teleri could be argued to be a necessary evil but Fëanor burning the ships was wrong

>>23860768
>>23860781
>>23860811
Bah. Pansy Elves.

>>23860811
That goes back to Melkor scrambling his brain, something the Valar are responsible for.

>>23860819
Giving War Pig a whole new meaning

>>23860835
Melkor didn't scramble his brain, Fëanor chose to believe his lies.

>>23860841
t. Blame shifting Valar. The lengths those cunts will go to to avoid taking responsibility for their fuck ups.

>>23860858
The Valar definitely fucked up at multiple points but Fëanor was a huge cunt even if he was a very cool cunt

>>23860835
>>23860841
>>23860858
>>23860912
What did the Valar do?

>>23860930
Well, the biggest mistake was Manwë pardoning Melkor. Leaving the Trees unguarded was also unwise in retrospect, though they could not have anticipated what he did. It's also arguable that inviting the elves to live in Valinor was a mistake.

>>23855280
>>23855303
One of the problems is calling the Valar "angels."

The Valar aren't angels. They're gods. When Tolkien referred to the Valar in notes and letters, he literally called them "the gods." They're basically the pagan gods who serve and are partially formed from the mind of a higher, cosmic and primordial capital-G God.

>>23861301
So.. Hinduism?

>>23861301
Hard agree, the analogy only holds up for maiar and even then it's a bit of a stretch. When people say Valar = Angels I assume they either don't know what the Valar are, or what angels are.

>>23860930
Gorillions dead because the Valar were butthurt and spiteful about Feanor not giving them the Silmarils.

>>23861395
Why does anyone worship em then

>>23855466
You forgot that the army of the dead helps to take the corsair ships and doesn't show up at Minas Tirith

>>23861397
Because Melkor is unbearably cringe.

>>23861426
>Your choices are the guys/gals who killed gorillions of people
and
>the cringe guy who also killed a lot of people

>>23861427
95% of the Valar fuckups are caused by their inaction regarding Melkor. The best choice is to worship Eru directly, as Tolkien intended.

>>23855275
>>23855466
Thank you for your service

>>23861395
>Fëanorian propaganda

>>23860709
>To add to this, I think the movies' biggest sin was downplaying Frodo. He grows wiser and wiser during his quest, and even at the start he's incredibly courageous.
Frodo's tone in the book is a lot more mature as well. He's supposed to be a like middle-aged country gentleman and not a whiny 18 year old

>>23857488
Sando is a word shitting machine, Tolkein is famously described as long-winded, but Its really that his prose is richer and more poetic, and creates a slower pace despite its brevity (compared to other "epic" fantasy).

>>23861440
>the best choice is to worship the leader of this bowl of fruits and nuts
Why? Does he do anything worthy of worship?

>>23861707
I'm reading LOTR for the third time right now and really enjoying it. It's deliberately a slow burn, as you say.

I'm in The Two Towers now. I'm surprised at how "modern" Gollum feels, as a concept and an execution. A lot of Tolkien's stuff is deliberately timeless, or even deliberately old-fashioned. But Gollum feels very modern, even very postmodern. I don't think he'd exist the way he does if Tolkien wasn't writing in the aftermath of the revolutions in psychiatry and psychology. And he doesn't feel "midcentury" or anything like that, he feels very fresh, like he could be from a contemporary fantasy novel. It's a very well-executed character idea on Tolkien's part.

>>23855168
I read LotR and saw the movies right after to compare. To be honest the movies are as good as you could possibly wish withing the Hollywood system, and they came at the exact moment when CGI was already good enough but practical effects where still widely used so visually they are great, specially Fellowship. That being said, after reading the book I realized how dumbed down the movies actually were. The threat of Sauron and the ring is very vaguely explained, unnecessary drama is added (Aragorn/Arwen romance, Aragorn’s reluctance, Sam and Frodo infighting), dubious characterizations (Denethor, Gimli) and obviously missing all the poetry and prose which is meant to evoke the anglo-saxon and nordic epics, the whole sense of melancholy of the great ages being long gone while also being at the end of an age.
Those changes make sense because a movie has different narrative rules than a book, but that just shows you why it’s an inferior medium.
The movies are still amazing but the book is infinitely better.

>>23860558
Wrongfully genocided.

Why didn't the fellowship fly to mordor

Want to read LOTR but I heard Tolkien uses info dumps a lot and that type of writing in fantasy makes me go crazy

>>23855168
No, no one ever read the books again after the movies were made. In fact TLOTR and The Hobbit are highly sought after nowadays because they haven't been printed 2574247974 times since 2001. Tolkien's name is nearly forgotten and now people consider Peter Jackson the creator of the Legendarium.

>>23857603
>Writing LOTR, Tolkien was not at all an aggregator of different myths from all around the world as some people claim. He was actually primarily concerned with Germanic myths and even talked shit on "celtic" myths.
I'm surprised you haven't drawn the wrath of the Finn for this post

I watched the first movie when it came out and then my dad practically forced me to read the books, they were mind-blowing ot read back then.
And I remember being so mad that they didn't adapt the Scouring of the Shire that I didn't enjoy watching ROTK for a couple of years.

>>23855658
The movies are responsible for capeshit humour. Gimli as a character has been copypasted hundreds of times.

>>23860558
weird of eru to annihilate very single one of'um even if some must've definitely been good

Books > Music > Movies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZeaTxVMCYc

>>23864649
>>23857603
Numenor is literally Atlantis and is even called Atalante

>>23861059
>Well, the biggest mistake was Manwë pardoning Melkor
Debunked by Pengolodh in Nature of Middle-earth, part 2, chapter 9

>>23865072
By that point, there were very few good Numenorians and those that were escaped with Elendil.

>>23864977
>that they didn't adapt the Scouring of the Shire
Thematically it is such a weird thing to omit especially when the movies leant into the idea of actual military tactics (not magic) winning the day.

How does elf maturity work?
What age is an elf considered an adult

>>23865455
It was obviously not adapted due to pacing issues. People complained about RotK having too many endings as it was, imagine adding a whole other subplot. They had already fucked up the set up anyway by turning Saruman into Sauron’s henchman.

>>23862757
I was also struck with how literary gollum is as a character. He alone elevates the second half of the two towers into a league of its own, imo.