/lit/ - Literature

>>23804247
>if god real
>Why bad thing happen
These notions are not contradictory

>>23804267
/thread
takes more than that to raise theodicy, OP

>>23804247
It has been answered thousands of times. It's even answered in the furst chapter of Genesis.
>Is God good?
Yes
>Is God the creator of the universe?
Yes
>Is life a good thing?
Yes
>Then, if life is a good thing, then a good God would create life in its universe
Yes
>would a good God create free life? or would He create enslaved life?
Free life
>Then, life can freely choose to do good (God = good, as we stated before) or evil (disobeying God).

>Chapter 1 of Genesis. God creates everything "good", but it gets corrupted due to humans disobeying him.

>>23804314
>>Chapter 1 of Genesis. God creates everything "good", but it gets corrupted due to humans disobeying him.
But God created humans. Why do we not fall under everything? If we're a problem, then His design is not even close to "good".

>>23804324
Did you read the rest of the comment? There I explain why God created life with free will.

>>23804408
You didn't explain anything lmfao. You just jumped from "God would create life" to "God would create free life" with no justification why free life is better than enslaved life. After all, if God is good, and if He made enslaved life, it would still be good.

Because we're bad and deserve it

>>23804462
Why are you so arrogant? If you don't understand and argument, you just need to ask, no need to laugh about it. But anyways, evil can also be explained under enslaved life.

I asked the question: "Would a good God create free life? Or would He create enslaved life?
I just didn't expect you to think that living as a slave without being able to make a single decision through your life was better than living as a free being. But let's go through both cases.
Here we have a question that splits into two paths: Free will and Determinism.

In free will, evil is explained as I did before: If free will is better than slave will, then a good God would choose that one over determinism. But of course it comes with consequences; because we are free to do good but also to do evil.
>so why are humans the only judged?
Because we are the only ones who have the knowledge of good and evil, according to Genesis 2. Other animals, even though having free will, don't know about good and evil. A lion doesn't care if his pray is suffering or not. Not because he is evil, but because he doesn't has a concept of good or evil.

In the case of determinism, then good and evil don't matter at all. We are all determined to do everything in our life, and it has been decided by God and not by ourselfs. Everything is part of God's plan. Who are you to judge God's morality in the case of determinism?

>>23804314
YHWH is not good
YHWH is not the creator

>>23804247
Would making something with flaws be cruel? Your parents had you didn't they?

>>23804513
Gnostic, who created the Demiurge? Isn't the Demiurge a creation of Sophia? Isn't Sophia a creation of The Father? Isn't The Father all-knowing? Thus, The Father created the Demiurge.

>>23804247
If God isn't real, then why does everything exist ?

>>23804247
Because eternal beings are free to live in worlds with suffering if they want. This is what NDErs say. And NDEs are seriously irrefutable proof that heaven really is awaiting us all because (1) people see things during their NDEs when they are out of their bodies that they ought not be able to under the assumption that the brain creates consciousness, and (2) anyone can have an NDE and everyone is convinced by it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U00ibBGZp7o

So every atheist or materialist or agnostic would be too if they had an NDE, so pic related is literally irrefutable proof of life after death. As one NDEr pointed out:

>"The minute that I kind of woke up on that hillside in heaven I knew that that was more real than any time I've ever spent here on Earth. And I knew instantly that my time here was really but a dream. It's real to us when we're in it, but once I was there in heaven I realized that's more real, that felt more real, and it made much more sense to me than anything here. This is kind of nonsensical at times. In heaven, it's so clear, so real, so rational, so logical, but yet emotional and loving at the same time. Immediately I knew that was real and this was not. Immediately."

If NDEs were hallucinations then extreme atheists and neuroscientists who had NDEs would agree that they were halluinations after having them. But the opposite happens as NDEs convince every skeptic when they have a really deep NDE themselves.

So NDEs convince people who have them, and so does the extensive scholarly literature on NDEs for the people who actually reads it. The problem, however, is that so many pseudoskeptics never actually read the scholarly literature on NDEs and instead just assume, based on their materialist dogma, that since there can not be any evidence for the reality of NDEs, there is no point actually learning more about NDEs.

God is real and he hates us.

>>23804314
>see? Its (YOU) fault and not mine (evendoe I, the all seeing, can see this coming when I put free will to human but did nothing to prevent it)

>>23804247
(sighs)
You’re getting confused with the demi-urge.

>>23804247
https://benthams.substack.com/p/why-theres-evil

>There might be various unknown reasons. Perhaps putting us in a universe like this is valuable because it is required for various hard-to-guess afterlife goods. Perhaps there’s some consequential decision that we’ll make in 5 quadrillion years that God knows will be positively shaped by us being in an indifferent universe. Given that we only witness 70 years of our lives or so, we’re not in a position to guess whether there are such great afterlife goods. This theodicy also avoids the problems with skeptical theism, because it only requires positing an unknown reason for one thing—making an indifferent universe. But surely thinking that God has some unknown reasons to do one particular act doesn’t produce global skepticism or any of the other untenable results of skeptical theism—we already know that we’re wrong sometimes!

>Perhaps being in an indifferent world, one whose features resemble the typical godless world that contains us and where we can know about the broad features of the world, strengthens our relationship with God. To consider an analogy: your relationship with your eventual spouse might be strengthened by the fact that you spent time without them. Having time without someone might strengthen your relationship with them. Similarly, time spent in a world apart from God might strengthen one’s eventual relationship with God, a relationship that is of infinite value.

>Perhaps struggling through an indifferent world, not being micromanaged by God, is uniquely valuable for soul-building. Just going through a narrowly tailored set of challenges doesn’t give one the knowledge that they can overcome hardships in the same way that overcoming a random suite of challenges does. The benefits of soul-building, as of the other benefits on this list, last forever.

>>23804507
>I just didn't expect you to think that living as a slave without being able to make a single decision through your life was better than living as a free being.
Ahhh, here come the strawmen. Classic. No, I don't think that at all. But that's what your logic ultimately leads to. If God is good and He says enslaved life is good, it is good, THE END. There is no counterargument. Free life and enslaved life are utterly arbitrary under an omnibenevolent God. Let me ask: if God told you tomorrow that being a slave is a good thing actually, would you believe it, no questions asked?

>>23804507
> I just didn't expect you to think that living as a slave without being able to make a single decision through your life was better than living as a free being.
If god is good then he will make all the correct decisions for me. Free will means the possibility that I make a wrong decision and end up in hell forever. Obviously being a slave to a benevolent god is better than free will.

>>23804247
Because there can be no good without evil. Our actions have no value if they can't lead to some outcomes better than others, hence we'd have no reason to do anything. It's extremely simple.

>>23804637
Then god is not all-good.

>>23804247
>if god real why does le bad thing still happen?
The answer is simple: God does not care about humans and our suffering. To alleviate our suffering, he would have to change what he is doing and thinking right now, and this is impossible because he can not change because he is already perfect, and every change would take away from his state of perfection.

>>23804591
This was actually pretty good

>>23804575
It's more good to have an imperfect life, than to not have a life at all.

>>23804704
As a non-Christian I agree with you, but I wouldn’t say that your statement is accurate under Christian theology. I’d much rather not exist than spend eternity in hell.

>>23804704
Not true. Not existing is a completly neutral state while an imperfect life is a wide range from almost perfect to hell on earth and somewhere between them is a point at which it would have been better to never have come into existence.

>>23804575
Who is the good person? One who has the choice to do wrong but chooses good? Or the one who cannot choose to do anything at all.

>>23804714
Who cares about being good? Slave morality is a lousy cope.

>>23804520
Yes, but the Gnostics do not presume to understand the nature of the corruption that caused the Demiurge to be such a fuckwit.
But to answer OP's question...because God created us primarily for his own entertainment, and you need stakes/conflict/drama so as not to be boring. Sucks for us, but we don't matter to him.

>>23804591
>cope cope cope
Fuck God. I didn't ask to be created. I want out of this nightmare. Un-create me now, you little bitch.
>eventual spouse
Little late for that. My soulmate, wherever she is, can go straight to Hell.

>>23804605
Where is the strawmen? In my first comment, I asked a question: "What is better? Free will or Slave will?". I answered myself, saying that free will was better, and in the second comment I explained why I personally answered myself like that. Where is the strawmen? Did you took the "you" personal? I explained that I didn't thought that you would give me the other answer, thus I didn't explain it from the start, but then I explained it afterwards.

>If God is good and He says enslaved life is good, it is good, THE END
That's why I explained both cases.

>if God told you tomorrow that being a slave is a good thing actually, would you believe it, no questions asked?
You are taking the discussion out of topic, but I'll answer anyways: I'd doubt it unless I was given a logical explanation. Wolfes exist, and they wear sheep's clothes.

>>23804718
Yes they do.

>>23804627
t. Calvinist
>>23804704
Fuck that shit. I wish for no life at all. The body is just a stupid playing-piece in a horrible game. I seek spiritual suicide, and I want it NOW.

>>23804714
What unbelievable horseshit. Did you get it from a marvel movie?
Good doesn't matter under God. Whatever He chooses is by definition good. It is all utterly arbitrary.

>>23804734
Sounds like you're just mad that you're not a good person. Just stop choosing to be bad.

>>23804627
The first part is correct. Under determinism good and evil don't matter, thus explaining OP's question. The last part is debatable.

>>23804734
You evaded the question. Maybe you didn't understand it. I'll rephrase that anon question in a simpler way:
Who is a better person? Someone who is able to do good and evil, and decides to do good voluntarily? Or someone who is forced to do good, even if he doesn't want to?

>>23804730
>hurr durr Yes they do
That's exactly the sort of sub-moron discourse I've come to expect from this shitty site.

>>23804739
Sorry that you don't have a point.
>>23804743
Your rephrasal is unneeded. I understood that anon perfectly. The question is still irrelevant if you assume God is the source of morality.

>>23804730
>You are taking the discussion out of topic, but I'll answer anyways: I'd doubt it unless I was given a logical explanation.
What logical explanation? He's God. That IS the logical explanation. If He says something, that's final.

Just shut the hell up, everyone. You are all dumber than rocks.

>>23804762
How do you know it's God and not a demon?

>>23804756
>I understood that anon perfectly. The question is still irrelevant if you assume God is the source of morality.
You didn't understood the question, because then you would've answered it. I will do yourself a favour and answer it in your place.
The answer that you would give is that it's better a person who is forced to do good, even if they don't want to. That's what your determinism posture leads to. Now then, original anon (>>23804714), you can follow your questioning.

>>23804550
>>23804723
>>23804732
I demand that you acknowledge my pain.

>>23804247
Bad thing happen because human fallen away from God. Also, in bad thing, good thing can come. All God will, not own.

God is the goth gf that punches you because she loves you

>>23805524
your mom is gay

>>23804247
you should consider killing yourself pig, what a worthless scum on earth

>>23805530
My logic has stunned you into base insults, I have won this battle.

>>23804247
your mom is gay you fucking faggot

>>23805536
>>23805533
>>23805530
ESLs stuck with low level insults

>>23805535
>>23805540
same fagging scum think he can defeat us, you are a mere playtoy for us

>>23805545
you are being created for our entertainment, don't forget your place playtoy

>>23804743
Both are good retard