/lit/ - Literature

>>23697148
Whoever controls the Pastebin needs to update the links for FFA. The Lulu links are all dead and the books themselves haven't been re-uploaded; a select collection of stories from them is here, however:
https://www.lulu.com/shop/lit/a-short-fiction-anthology/paperback/product-65qqyzd.html
apparently picked because
>the stories are excellent and worthy of fresh publication
though the OP never stated which were selected.
Originally from:
>>/lit/thread/23118213

The Archive.org link is fine.

Finished chapter 2 (3 if you count the prologue). I feel like this is the point where most people would be tempted to drop the novel, as it contains depictions of men, women, and children being killed, and the protagonist attempting suicide. Maybe in further drafts I'll make it less visceral, but I like how it turned out.
This next chapter I have to somehow blend a sense of both apathy and urgency. I have some ideas, but any tip is welcomed.

What do you do when you suddenly hit a road block and your brain completely craps out?

>>23697331
Go back, something you already wrote or outlined is fucked.

This might be a dumb question but I'm very new when writing in first person.
When writing in first person, do you use past or present tense?
I know you obviously use past tense when a character is retelling something but how about when they're describing something? Like say the room they're currently in?

>>23697367
>but how about when they're describing something? Like say the room they're currently in?
I don't know, how do you describe a room you were in?

How many of you identify with this?

>>23697326
Soldier on.

Why might a magical school allow entry into their halls for someone who wields a different form of magic that their members cannot use?

I was thinking:
>they let them in for purely knowledge's sake as the person's tribe is very tight-lipped about their magic
>the school thinks a child will be easier to ply for knowledge and more loose-lipped
>as an incentive, they come up with new ways and ideas for him to use his magic he never thought of before, also maybe teach him a little more about their magic
>eventually some people try to come up with countermeasures to the magic

I'm not sure if "for knowledge's sake" is a good enough reason though, it seems a little too altruistic.

>>23697398
No, I'm the exact opposite. I don't follow a structure at all and all my ideas are wholly original.

Still can't decide between a straight up giant, subterranean centipede or a Lovecraftian centipede deity for my protagonists to square off against.

>>23695009
>Of course the readers on the litrpg/progression site mostly want to read litrpg/progression. Go to Amazon or tradpub if you're not writing in the niche of the niche site
Yeah, I'm thinking I dun goofed to be honest. Self-publishing on Amazon's my end goal, but I heard it's better to post on a web fiction site first nowadays to both build an audience and to use them as beta-readers(beyond the ones you already have). Then I came across some authors that found some success there despite not writing to meta, and figured, sure why not? But so far I'm really not enjoying the process as all the things I mentioned are a constant distraction, yet basically my only way to get visibility. I'm holding off on the ad until I've got like 50K words up. May start uploading to scribble hub as well.

I didn't do any writing today, I only did reading. While at work I managed to listen to a few hours of the first AsoIaF book, and then tonight I read through sections of about a dozen different novels/works paying attention to how they split of narration, description, and dialogue throughout a chapter or two each. I did a lot of thinking about my own writing as well. I didn't take many notes in the books or anything. I feel bad for not writing tonight and I don't know if this is just cope or not but I do feel like I put in some work with the reading I did. Its not the same as actually writing, but at the very least I did spend about six hours today at least actively focused on writing.

I need to stick to a consistent writing schedule though. That's obvious but for some reason following obvious advice isn't really easy exactly. Its not meant to be easy either I guess.

>>23697574
just make sure it's standing up on its butt, horizontal centipedes aren't interesting

>>23697398
I guess the episodic remark is apt, but I do it intentionally. I really like rambling, episodic stories that go on a whole bunch of tangents. The tangents in my story minimally feed back in to the central theme, but they mostly just exist as fun diversions (I hope they're fun, anyway).
I don't think being episodic is in itself a bad thing, I think the issue is filler, and the difference between episodes and filler, as I understand it, is that good episodes have connective tissue, whereas filler episodes don't. I just hope the substance in my episodic arcs is sufficient to clear this threshold.

>can't figure out how to string words together to describe how my main character is feeling
literally write
>Eric stood silent. The feelings dwelling deep inside him could not be expressed with the simplicity of words. His fists clenched and his neck tightened. He reached for his blade and finally blurted out his emotions for the room to hear.

Genius or hack?

>>23697574
I think just giant centipedes are spooky enough. Save the horror god version as the final boss.

>>23697801
>The feelings dwelling deep inside him could not be expressed with the simplicity of words.
translates to: "I'm lazy and can't be bothered to think up what I mean, or even have an AI do it for me, but please keep reading anyway and trust me that I know what I'm doing, honest."

>>23697457
Better question, why does that person go to a school that uses magic entirely different from his specialization and nobody there can actually help him?

>>23697811
AI is even worse.

>>23697801
Don't describe how the character is feeling. Show their actions and let the reader deduce how he's feeling.

>Eric stood silent. His fists clenched and his neck tightened. He reached for his blade.

Clenched fists are cliche, but I can tell he seems perturbed.

>>23697831
wtf is breathing shallowly? panting? You use tons of passive sentences which drags the flow of the story. you can delete the entire 2nd and 3rd paragraph and nothing changes.

>>23697823
it's gonna sound edgy but he's a prodigy and decides he wants to learn about other magics (even if he can't use them) to measure his abilities

>>23697849
Does he have a good argument to give to the school to convince them this totally isn't the case, or will they just be glad to be exploited to their own disadvantage by the super special main character?

>go to bed last night feeling what I wrote was amazing
>pick up where I left off tonight and read what I had
>it's fucking horrendous

OK, I have my:
>Characters.
>Setting.
>General idea of what I want the story to be about.
What do I do now? Where do I even begin?

>>23697843
>wtf is breathing shallowly
The opposite of breathing "deeply" you fucking ESL retard have you really never heard that before?

Whenever I scroll past these threads I always bewilder at the horrid dogshit advice anons give each other

>>23697886
From the beginning.

>Character did A. Then he did B. He looked around. He walked over to X and did C.

How do I not write like everything is just a list of bullet point actions?

>>23697889
I hate that this is a good answer but I need more. I just don't know what to write or how to write enough to fill a book.

I used to be afraid of indulgence. I put my characters through torture and trouble and only took from them, thinking that giving them nice things was pandering the reader too much and the slippery slope to producing banal slop. Every victory had to come at a price, a price often heavier than the reward. But after working on it for a while now, I've begun to see the light. It's okay to give! It's okay not to kill people! It's okay to be happy sometimes! It's being with those you like and gaining things where the true beauty and flavor of life comes. I've made it out of the empty, dark cave! I think I can write human novels again!

>>23697907
Then it doesn't sound like you have enough material to write a book. Write a short story to start to get a feel for how it works, and grow from there.

>>23697888
Look retard, I'm telling you to find a better word than "breathing shallowly", hence panting. Be more specific with your words fucking dumbshit. That's why you're able to read and comprehend this post with 100% clarity while nobody can understand what the fuck you're talking about.

>>23697913
I've written a short story before but that's not a hard thing to do, you don't need a lot to write one hence why it's called a short story. Also, what would you consider "enough material" to be?

Honestly, why do we suddenly have so many posts asking HOW TO START WRITING in every thread? Is it just one autismo spamming endlessly, or is the level of basic education really coming down at freefall speed? People were more literate and independent in the dark ages. Google can answer fucking basic ass questions like that. There are about a trillion simplified, illustrated, animated, firework-decorated step by step tutorials for toddlers how to write a story out there. Fuck off and come back when you've actually written something

>>23697928
Multiple characters and enough relevant subplots to fill 400 pages without it being filler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YabduvXKGdw

Do you know all these 15 words?

>>23697926
I'm not that anon, a fact which you should have been able to ascertain from my post. I was just scrolling by. Your reading comprehension is as poor as your writing abilitu, evidently.

Panting is not a better word then breathing shallowly. Dogs pant naturally; panting does not imply illness, hence it is a poor choice of words. "Shallow breathing" is a very common phrasing of a medical symptom.

You should really not be giving advice.

>>23697942
You even admit dogs pant. they don't "breath shallowly". dogs don't take short sniffs from their nostrils. Now fuck off retard.

>>23697938
Just post the words. I'm not boosting a clickbait charlatan's viewcount.

>>23697952
Panting is not shallow breathing, it's hard, fast breathing.

>>23697952
nta but panting and shallow breathing are two entirely different things.

>>23697935
This might be the most retarded waste of time I've ever subjected myself to. Not even the best authors in the world have an entire 400-page book just sitting in their head. If they did then they'd be able to bust it out in less than a week.

>>23697952
Yes, dogs pant normally to regulate their body temperature. A creature takes shallow breathes when they are injured or sick. Contextually, panting here would not be synonymous, in fact it'd be MORE confusing, you utter fucking imbecile.

Your pic means squat. You are a retard.

>>23697961
>Not even the best authors in the world have an entire 400-page book just sitting in their head. If they did then they'd be able to bust it out in less than a week.
But...many of them do. Of course, it usually takes longer than a week to physically type it out, but yeah.

>>23697961
That's what Michael Crichton did. Ten days actually, but close enough.

>>23697870
Well basically they want to learn more about his people's form of magic, like picrel

Perhaps seeking knowledge for the sake of knowledge is a good enough motivation, there's plenty of very curious individuals in the world

>>23697952
the sentence is alliterative. it needs B's, not P's.

>>23697963
OK, but what do new authors like myself do who don't have an entire book in their heads?

>>23697962
I'm going to bed now, don't bother replying.

>>23697972
A large organization like a school can't operate with the same logic as an individual person would. They have to consider the safety and sustainability of their own institution first and foremost.

>>23698007
>A large organization like a school can't operate with the same logic as an individual person would. They have to consider the safety and sustainability of their own institution first and foremost.
I think Harry Potter has been a bad influence on how people think magic schools should be run given all the insane shit Dumbledore let fly because of the plot

>>23697992
I don't know what you want anon. Do you have an idea or not? If not, then you can't write a story. So either develop your base idea further and outline how you want it to play out, or just say screw it and start writing whatever comes to mind and see where it goes from there. You can cut the parts that don't work in editing later.

Would anyone here be interested in reading a draft of my 100k story?

>>23698012
Well, HP is also painfully realistic in that the school is, like many public schools, basically just a shelter for the headmaster's old, unqualified misfit friends, who couldn't possibly hold a steady job elsewhere, and is kept afloat by high-level connections who hush up any shady business. But it's a bit weird how the author tries to present this as a good thing worth protecting.

>>23698053
The most realistic shit is always the human interactions, the most unrealistic shit is the crazy stuff JK Rowling added to make it seem like a fun and cool setting

How do I write a character helping another character suffering from survivors guilt

I'm struggling with making my writing flow good in english. I feel like there's something I'm missing (as an ESL). This is just a really short paragraph but do you find something wrong with it?

>>23698069
Get creative

>>23698074
It doesn't sound natural.
>the perennial and persistent light starts to cascade its garnered energy across the cityscape
Feels very flowery. Also you would say "previously overcast sky", not sun.

>>23698134
Hm. I see.

>>23698051
What's it about? Elevator pitch it to me.

Okay based short story done. Now just gotta apply to the 2 contests and hang tight. I won't win but at least I wrote some shit and tried something I never tried before.

>>23698345
>I won't win
You don't know that. For what it's worth, I hope you win.

I saw an ad for a writing contest with a cash prize and I thought to myself "wouldn't it be a great scam to make people pay to submit to one of these?" and it turns out most of them do, in fact, make you pay to submit

>>23698425
Most also reserve the right to not choose a winner if they don't feel like it. An infinite free money and story ideas generator!

>>23697898
>Character did A. Then he tried to do B, but here comes N to fuck up his plans. He crawled over to X after the beating N gave him, only for J to block his path from C.

>>23697148
>If you can't summarise your story in a sentence, you're not ready to write
Is this good advice or is this just Youtube/Reddit writing advice™?

>>23698458
It's a good skill to have since whatever route you take to publishing you'll eventually need to be capable of condensing your stories into elevator pitches, queries, blurbs, synopses, etc. But a lot of writers are terrible at marketing and probably wouldn't have started if that was a necessary prerequisite.

>>23697898
Emotion and conflict. Why is your character doing this, what choices does your character face, what stands in your character's way. Does your character have any doubts?
Also what does your character see, listen and smell while doing these things? Do they remind your character of anything? How do these things make your character feel?

>>23697908
The human condition is not only darkness and pain, loneliness and loss. It's also music and joy, beauty and love.

>>23698458
Kinda dumb and too plot-centric. It's more of an elevator-pitch kind of thing that to properly convey what your story is about. The idea of summarize your story in a sentence isn't so much the story itself, but the vibe you're trying to convey.
To properly capture the core of your story, you should be able to summarize your characters and what brings conflict to them (i.e. the central theme). You could do this in two to three sentences, and it'll bring a more concrete idea of your story than any one-sentece plot-focused summary could.

>>23698512
I find that it points to not knowing what a story is about, either in the premise or thematically. Workshops get very heated over it and many forums nearly ban the question. You, on your end, have to make the story about something, at least in part. One sentence should do, any others are predicated upon it.

>>23697934
My guess is there's a bunch of incel NEET shutins with room temperature IQs, who have absolutely nothing going on in their lives, and they're attracted to their perception of the "writer's lifestyle", and want to know how to achieve it, despite having no facility for it, and nothing interesting to write about.

>>23697934
What have you written?

>>23698655
It does sound like an "I'm bored, entertain me" question instead of a process question, which goes beyond spoon-feeding into chewing it up and spitting it into their mouths for them. It's always been a problem on creative generals, but has become absolutely retarded in recent years.

>>23697802
Well it's for a short story so this is the final boss.

>>23697367
Generally you're using the past tense and alternating grammatical aspect to indicate (or obscure) the recency or time-frame of an event. Some authors will slip into the present tense to, well, make things more tense or exciting, but you really have to know what you're doing to pull it off, especially if you're directly going from one to the other instead of "following the rules" and segregating it to its own chapter.

This seems more a mechanical inquiry, though, and less intellectual, so as the other anon asked, just observe how you'd usually do it and see what's natural.

More preferably, go read some fucking books.

>>23697148
I keep fucking outlining, hit around 10k-15k words in and want to change the story completely. I know for a fact I cant pantser write or whatever, as it comes out as complete slop and messy.

For example, currently trying to outline a fantasy novel. Beginning starts off with a siege/fight ending a rebellion in the north. Then the story starts, but I find having another "arc" diffcult as I feel I should start further back in my protags timeline. Ok, so now the story is completely different, as it starts years earlier. Ad infinitum me rewriting and planning, never finishing anything. Is this just part of the process? Or should I do a "simpler" story with more clear beginning and end? For example a revenge story or something along those lines.

>>23698906
Why the time skip? Why backwards in time? Why can't you proceed linearly?

>>23698906
It's always a difficult question, where to start. I decided that I'm starting the "initiating" event and then skipping ahead via some careful montages and segues of short vignettes. I realized that it's not that nothing happens, it's that everything you set up in the formative chapter continues to happen and you've just moved to the next new thing. Flashbacks are better served for new information that you couldn't have obtained previously.

>>23698298
A fantasy story where a FeMC embarks on a quest trying to find her missing comrades.

>>23698995
>FeMC
Nope

>>23698074

You have strange phrasing like perennial and persistent light. Why would you describe sunlight as perennial? It's like saying water is wet. What is this "garnered energy" supposed to mean?

>>23698934
I feel there is a lot of background information as well as protags character growth that mainly took place in the past. Part of me would rather consume a story (personally) from the beginning to the end point, rather then periodic flashbacks to build upon the character. I plan on taking a hard look at it today to see the logistics of it.

>>23698971
Yeah so that's the thing with flashbacks, is I would be showing new information. They would also take place in "dreams" being between story beats. Traveling, after being injuried and resting, etc.

>>23698443
No they just choose their own writing under a pen name

too many genre faggots in these threads. were are the artists?

I want to write smut. What's the best way to get paid for writing smut? Should I just write my smut and beg on patreon?

I genuinely enjoy writing fantasy themed smut.

>>23699093
litsloppers lost
these threads now belong to genreCHADs hoping to make that sweet patreon cash via royal road algorithms

>>23699093
Got chased out by all the faggots associating themselves with the /lit/ Renaissance

>>23699098
If you want good advice ask good questions. There isn't nearly enough information here. 'fantasy-themed' smut isn't specific. Long form or short form? Pure smut or smut mixed in with a narrative? What kind of smut? What niches? Taboo topics or no? Male or female centric?

Since you asked a lazy question, here's a lazy answer: put it on Amazon

>>23699107
Character driven narratives where characters have sex sometimes. Not hentai plots, more like D&D themed slice of life with wandering adventurers having sex a lot. I'm fine with novels or short story analogues. Mostly vanilla sex, some dom/sub stuff, maybe some dub con scenes and some contextual spice.

Amazon self publishing might actually be the answer, I don't know. I guess I'd mainly be focusing on the female audience, but it's hard to say. My only major reference for male focused smut is hyper coomer huge Amazon tiddies shit.

>>23699136
female centric smut is definitely going to be Amazon's wheelhouse
Though dubcon isn't allowed there
Problem is I'm not sure how many women are out there looking for D&D slice of life adventuring stories ... that are smut-centric. Lol

Western pulp anon here. I decided on having just a giant centipede as the antagonistic force. Thoughts?

>>23699136
The amazon shelf you might want to look into is:
https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Men's-Adventure-Fiction/zgbs/books/10159267011
Just plaster a large-breasted woman on the cover to get the point across that it's smut--it's a marketing tool, it doesn't mean you have to have juvenile hentai plots

>>23699136
scribblehub spam 1500 word chapters every day, put 20-50 more on patreon.
>But thats too much!
Use AI like everyone else, or translate chinkshit.

>>23699098
Find a fetish group with lots of money (like furries) and cater to them, or if you understand the female mind you can writing smut for women and hope your slop somehow rises to the top. I listened to the audiobook of Fourth Wing with my girlfriend and the writing and setting isn't spectacular but the book is apparently incredibly popular anyway and I assume that's because it's a romance novel masquerading as a fantasy book.

Just finished a treatment for my next screenplay (rewrite). Should I start writing the actual screenplay now or let the treatment sit for a while and work on something else?

>>23699098
Black Hare Press has an open submission for erotic horror. You could make ten bucks.

The distinction between genre fiction and literary fiction is purely imaginary.

>>23699395
>use AI like everyone else
Lmao, beginner spotted

>>23698458
Another instance of screenwriting advice leaking over into novel writing circles

how do I write a play?

>>23699568
by writing a play

I like flashbacks. If you have a mystery for 100 pages it is satisfying to jump back into the past to see the solution. I don't know why people hate flashbacks, but I'll probably use one in my story anyway because the choice is either a) start with a boring start and explain it upfront before there's even a mystery at all, or b) do what I said and reveal the truth midway through, even if it takes 3 chapters of flashback.

>>23699573
thank you

>>23699568
It's not required for you to have had gay sex, but it would certainly help.

Scriptanon here. Got back from one of two festivals my screenplay got into. It was fun but I'm not sure if going helped my career or not.
The next one is in a hoity-toity part of California and not some random city in the midwest so maybe some high-level professionals I can get friendly with will be there.

>>23699551
Careful, you'll upset the egotists

>>23699551
The distinction was always this. We've simply done away with the pretense in order to better remind the litficuckies that genreCHADS run this place.

>>23699093
>were
All your artist rights have been revoked

>>23699098
Probably start on Reddit and link a Patreon, then work on commissions once people know you enough

>>23699568
Plays are meant to be performed, not read. Do you need to know about stage plays and productions, some sense of direction and timing. Acting as well. As you learn this you'll begin to form a more intuitive understanding of these topics, and playwriting will get easier.
A good sense of space and timing go a long way in play writing. And of course, being able to convey things purely through dialogue and action. Keep in mind that more dialogue means more time, so there are some compromised you have to make. Also, the less dialogue you have, the more pressure there is on the actors to convey characterization through action. That's why it is good to have some acting knowledge as well.

>>23699712
Thank you. Other than reading and watching plays, is there anything else I can do to gain greater understanding

Reading books on writing makes you better at writing books on writing.

>>23699749
Immerse yourself into the world of theatre. Take acting classes if you can, or join a theatre workshop/group. I know of theatre workshops which encourages people to both act and direct, see if there are any where you live.
Read about acting theory (like Stanislavsky shit). Studying screenplay writing can help you as well. Generally they are pretty similar, save some caveats about space and direction, but if you know about theatre you'll be able to figure out the differences.

>>23699749
>>23699805
Also, don't only read and watch, but analyze what you see and read. Ask yourself why things were done the way they were done.

>>23699805
>>23699842
Thanks guys, I'm thinking of reading some classic plays like Aristophanes. But do you have any recommendations for good plays to read?

What romantasy trash should I read to know how to write romance for women?

>>23697992
>okay but how about people with no creativity
they shouldn't write books.

>>23699941
Samuel Beckett, although understanding him is a task in itself. Look up popular one-act plays and go from there. I'll say this, having live actors makes things hit different, like the screaming of a feral child hits different when it's right in front of you at 140 decibels https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1BZFgN9PBA
You can create atmosphere in powerful ways and the surreal nature of drama, of the one way mirror between the stage and audience, takes time to wrap your head around. Suspension of disbelief becomes a flexible membrane that you have to poke at to make it hold.

There's a way of crafting dialogue that's not natural sounding, but passes as it in the fiction of the play. You have to find ways to convey a lot of outside information and write lines that are ambiguous and charged with layers of meaning. It's similar to written fiction, but the techniques are put to very different use. Way over my head.

What are some ways to make a character come off as slightly autistic in dialogue? Ambiguously so. I already have some general interests and ways of acting down. He may not be, but it wouldn't hurt if he seems like he is from time to time and can't trust writing what I'd say conveying it at the right time.

Sent my first chapter, 7,000 words, to five of my closest friends who agreed to read it. It's been two weeks. I checked in with them, four of them haven't started it, and the one that did try to read it only made it 5/17 pages in. She said I use too much advanced language and it's hard for her to understand it. I'm at 80,000 words and this has made me want to quit. If my closest friends won't even read it why the fuck would strangers read it when I eventually finish it.

>>23700083
there is dignity in the pursuit, you just have to find it

>>23700083
Beta exchange with other authors
Post on webnovel sites

Why would you trust the opinions of people who don't read?

Does this set the scene well?

The dawn crept over the silhouettes of canyon walls as the gnoll congregation trickled in. The low moon descended beyond the walls to the west, leaving only the glare of the stars and their evil constellations to light the coming ritual. Only when the floor of natural stone below was packed with gnolls standing in eerie silence did the griffon descend.

>>23700094
I'm trying to keep that in mind. I enjoy the writing process the days it goes well I find myself laughing when I come up with something funny or clever. I love the characters I've created and how they've grown. Writing this book has been therapeutic and I've put different parts of myself in every character. The novel being so personal is probably why I'm offended they haven't read it.

>>23700147
I got great crits that way, but I'm special. I did have to confirm it because one case report is pretty useless but it does work from time to time.

>>23700167
Take the crits seriously, at least the direction they point in. The right side gets reamed but at least 3 anons and an independent like the left. My narrative prose is clean and solid enough, so I know what works and what really fucking doesn't. It's helped dial in the rest.

I think the problem is personal language and things you like for you detract from that self-expression as something meant to be understood. I'll argue that dextral and sinister line to death, but can easily substitute malefica for baleful influence and bring the rest down a little.

>>23700214
Shit.

I will have to become a self publish retard in order to write what I want to write I think. TOR and other publishers just hate sex. They're all retarded and gay.

>>23700262
smut is super popular though? wtf are you writing?

>>23700214
On that note, I have a shitpost about making shine that I want to slip in, but I can't figure out how it relates to running it or anything in particular.
>Make malt, sparge the mash and strain the pot likker, let the wort seethe and settle for a fortnight. Strike the lembic still and pour the heads off. Fawnfroth through the casement Low wine takes a second pass to make proof. Condense into a hogshead and bung. Wait, with demon patience.
I'm entirely in love with the language of the process and how every hillbilly and peasant from the time the lembic left the levant and settled in eire somewhere in the first century knows exactly what all the words mean, but no one now.

>>23699157
You're fumbling the entire scene.
>problems
World building is entirely absent in any meaningful manner, your big set piece has the gravitas of a fart that wasn't silent and you have your head stuck up your main character's ass the entire time yet didn't even manage to write the centipede reveal from his perspective besides a token gesture. It's fundamentally a summary of a story.
>solutions
This is a horror scene so atmosphere is paramount. This cave is far more important than your character will ever be so all of his actions should meaningfully build upon the atmosphere of this dark, damp, mossy cave with a lake and a big fucking centipede in it.
Speaking of centipedes they're ambush predators so your character would have died even before he had the chance to fall over. Working with that and general suspense in mind, it's far more advantageous to delay showing the big bad for as long as possible. There's too many techniques to do this but you already touched on sound and light, all you'd really need is the psychology of a character that is listening to weird noises in a massive cave and thinks that he keeps seeing shadows move.
Finally, you'll have to forgo this movie camera bullshit. Leon falling had no place being where it is. In books things do not need to happen in the order that they're shown. If Leon is going to do anything that adds to the scene it should be well within the centipede's build up or after it is revealed. It's essentially like a kid turning off the lights in a hallway to scare someone so they do it as soon as possible rather than waiting for when it would actually be scariest.

Also why do you exclusively write in short sentences? Maybe the real monsters were 20 words or longer all along...

>>23700083
>my closest friends
Big mistake. Best advice I heard is never send your work to someone you would lend money to. They are not going to be honest with you to spare your feelings. That said, 17 pages is a damn long ass first chapter. No wonder they don't want to sit through all that.

>>23700165
It's too flowery. Either that or the sentences are too bulky. Something about it is just awkward to read.

>>23700165
I wouldn't rightfully know for well, bell or bell-end are and were all but a mere flicker of the mind that's so busy and littered with trickling girthy cocks and the proper ways to delect in them that it forgot to even consider a reply that wasn't in good jest of the post, actual, itself.

>>23700292
>Also why do you exclusively write in short sentences? Maybe the real monsters were 20 words or longer all along
...the last sentence of the first paragraph has 26 words though.

>>23700279
It will be something, I know not what.

>>23700357
Was that a sonnet form? Some kind of blank verse? It has a nice flow, regardless.
https://voca.ro/19koVaNfYy1E

>character is a living weapon
>they are used to eliminate enemy living weapons
How would such a character justify their existence to someone who objects to living weapons period?
Obviously 'because we kill da baddies' but I'm looking for a more metaphorical way of putting it.
Like how a gun is just a tool and not inherently evil.

>>23700401
Something about protecting their friends because that is the most anime shit I've ever heard.

>>23700401
>Your whole existence is as a bioweapon forged for primacy amongst yourselves. I was merely made more suitable for the job. Would you want to be that much better at what you already do?
I like it, but I wrote it. Feel free to it.

>>23700401
Isn't this just Soul Eater?

>>23700292

You have a few good points, but a lot of them are addressed. For example, this is following a big scene where the characters survive a cave-in, one nearly drowns, and Leon amputates the other's mangled forearm, so there is a lot going on in the build up. This happens roughly halfway into the story. I get that none of this comes across in the three paragraphs I posted though, so there's that. As for centipedes being ambush predators...I wasn't aware of that. Does it make it any better that it stole the severed arm, which was atop a floating piece of driftwood, while the characters slept? Again, this is revealed after the paragriI posted, so would have had no way of knowing. I suppose posting such a small snippet was a bad idea.

>>23700414
>>23700423
Yeah maybe I can tone it down a bit.
>>23700416
Thanks.

>>23700442
>paragril
...I meant paragraph...

>>23700442
I haven't read any of this and am not reading your copewall; you have to post a representative sample, your best work framed. I know that's what this is about. Lead with the end of a chapter at the very least, but honestly post at least half a chapter or don't bother unless you're only looking for the kind of criticism I know you got.

>>23700465
Post your work

>>23700465
And here we see the litfic fag pretending that his bloated opinions matter.

>>23700465
>copewall
I posted about a paragraph... that's too much for you to read? How do you expect anyone to take your criticism seriously if you can't even handle a simple conversation?

>excited to tell story
>every word sounds too tryhard and amateurish
>read samples of famous authors
>theirs is no better
>still feel mine is shit though

>>23700480
K

>>23700268
Where do you publish it beyond just self publishing on Amazon? Is there any actual publishers than handle it?

>>23700500
It's meandering and annoyingly verbose. You seem to have a lot of nothing to say.

>>23700519
But what do you know? I'm genuinely asking.

>>23700500
Is this supposed to come across as Patrick Bateman Jr? It reads like an overblown "he's literally me" post.

>>23700527
I know enough to tell when someone's got their head so far up their own ass that they can see sunlight, and I know rambling, meaningless prose when I see it.

>>23700516
Bitch's read smut on their Kindle where it's nice and hidden. Publish through kindle unlimited

>>23700530
Yes. More or less. There's an allusion or two in there. The narrator's unwarranted self confidence comes out here before he actually gets to work and perhaps gets played or makes use of what he's tasked to do. At least one of the characters has read chandler and the setting is more contemporary than it seems.

Anyone else finally accepted their own mediocrity?
I feel content now.
I write shit and that's okay.

>>23700539
I was asking what do you know of the characters and scene presented, because I did it without greater context to make sure it actually reads like I want it to. I meant it in earnest. >>23700530 nailed a part of it, talk about it like that; it don't say shit half the time but it says more than anything you have.

>>23700557
What matters is how entertained your reader is. Flowery prose will only get you so far. You can edit and re-edit till you wind up with something that is nice, but that doesn't mean your reader will like reading it, and at the end of the day, we read for enjoyment and pleasure. It's best to keep that in mind when writing. Some of us lose sight if that and end up performing what amounts to literary masturbation.

My second draft of the scene setter. Hopefully this is better? I have a lot of images I'm trying to paint here.

>>23700322
I've been reading a lof of 1950s era fantasy, so that style of writing is stuck in my brain right now. I'm trying to capture the aspects of their imagery that I liked. This does mean it will be cringe at times, but why are we here if not to improve?

>>23700357
Good crab bucket post.

>>23700574
The "fuck" takes you out of it a little. The rest is solid and I read it without cringing, just manage the voice and all the adjectives and adverbs in the second draft. You want to be like a lady and remove one accessory before it leaves the house.

>>23700562
I know that the MC thinks highly of himself, but I don't know why. Your excerpt makes him out to be smug and a bit unlikable. If that's your intention, good job. I'd almost say he might be an unreliable narrator, but there's not enough there to fully commit to that interpretation. You still sound like someone who holds themselves in higher regard than is deserved, though. You won't even read a post answering your critique, even one that admits you have good points.

>>23700591
I'm torn on that bit of dialogue. I wanted something that serves as a grounding moment for the reader, providing a relatable human response amidst the otherworldly events. And I wanted the character to not seem overtly frightened, but also quite worried about what was going on, without quipping.

>>23700442
>Does it make it any better that it stole the severed arm, which was atop a floating piece of driftwood, while the characters slept? Again, this is revealed after the paragriI posted
I don't see why you wouldn't do this before revealing the centipede so that people are even more on edge.
>>23700371
I'm now 6 words under, done in by my own guesstimate. Never learned how to count sisters, it's so over...

>>23700597
Your assessment is right and exactly what I was I was going for, the Narrator is insufferable. And unreliable but only because he's more than one person sometimes. What post didn't I answer? >>23700492 is a non response. I've read it since and I was right, you really have to locate an excerpt in space unless that isn't your intention at all. I know the shape of those things, I used to do them myself.

>>23700607
>"what have we stumbled into? I'm----"
Would work as well as anything else. Let the reader do the work, and if they're that retarded, other readers do the work for them.

>>23700615
Here, is this better? Enough to go on? Forgive the weird formatting here, I threw it together in a few seconds. I know that it's a bit rough, but it's the literal definition of "first draft", as I wrote it just a few hours ago. Go ahead and tell me how horrible it is, and that I shouldn't continue. I already feel that way, and have thought a few times about just deleting this and the 12k short I already finished. I know there's nothing even remotely good about my writing, you might as well just reinforce that.

>>23700663
>Here, is this better?
Yes. It's something to read lel. It leads nice, there are sundry foibles but it follows now. It's a story, start it there if you didn't already. You can fix the rest later. You want that flow to a story, unless you just want crit on 300 words with no context.

>>23700663
cause, here's at least 300 words about something you'll read soon as I do and I have a feeling it's both pure prose and better than either of us I'm sure it makes whatever point it makes, that I make, that you want to make, it's how points like this go.

>>23700700
>That prose
True schizo hours

>>23700700
I'm not part of this conversation, and I don't want to be, but what in the actual fuck is this

>>23700709
>>23700710
>filtered by Molly Bloom's
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/4300/4300-h/4300-h.htm#chap18
It's quite a long bit of woman thinking to herself, written by a man. Who wrote loveletters to a woman who responded with that.

>>23700710
nta but I think that's Joyce, either Ulysses or FW

>>23700500
>>23700574

How fascinating. We have two verbose and flowery passages. One portrays a complex and striking image and mood, while the other meanders and wastes words describing the tantalizing scents of its own cavernous ass.

That's enough critique for the first passage, as for konoanon.

You have three different blood related descriptions, perhaps find a different way to describe the red light from the stars. You use "its entrance" in the same sentence as "its mighty wings." Say the beasts entrance or something, and mighty wings does not fit the mood. Mighty as a heroic connotation, find something more evil. Other issues of repetition follow: "the gathered gnolls, "the shaman riding", find new ways to start one of the sentences.

>>23700574
Much better. But I agree with the other guy, the profanity feels too modern.

>>23700379
>Was that a sonnet form? Some kind of blank verse?
If you include rhythmic variations I'm sure that you could find a pentameter in there, thus making it a blank verse about cocks.

>>23700718
It were.
https://voca.ro/17DINEuPURiY

>>23700731
I'm all about the cockverse.

all writers with wips shold post in >>23696532 where glakowanon and others give pretty good advice sometimes

I have a story that takes place in a city like Omashu from Avatar

Thing is, I realized partway that a city like this would have issues with growing food.

How might a city like this where it's literally sheer cliffs on all sides of the walls grow it's own food?

>>23700768
Gardens inside the walls. Maybe some kind of advanced well system for hydroponics? If it's fantasy or sci-fantasy you can just magic up some plants that don't need water and photosynthesize with moonlight etc.

>>23697398
Blah blah blah. There's no process. You just sit down and shit. But in this day and age, it is difficult to shit.

>>23697457
You're right, it is too altruistic. 2 and 4. are the most likely options, and in answer to >>23697823, I suspect that it's because this is a decidedly timid character who at first tries to conceal himself a person of little talent for the desperate sake of making friends.

>>23697574
You are describing Pokemon Platinum, and you know it.

>>23697801
Picture yourself in that situation. Perhaps adopt a more over-the-shoulder style, showing this character's anger by falling back on things from his past. It sounds like a situation where the subconscious takes over. Make it seem that way.

>>23697831
>Dampening all sound except all these VERY SPECIAL sounds.
>BBBBBBBBB, B is for BRINDLE, it GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME.
>T

Alliteration is charming in small doses in poetry, but it's so painfully obvious in prose that it throws the reader off rather than pull them in. Your images are disjointed and in spite of your best effort they don't flow into one another. There's good material, and your protagonist's bond with his dog is actually pretty well realized. They're reflected in each other. Fair enough. It's just weighted down by unnecessary verbose prose.

>>23697908
I'd like to read about people's indulgences. I can't think of a good book where everybody gets what they ever wanted and were quietly joyful and content with it, except maybe Traherne's Meditations. Go for it.

>>23698458
It's excellent advice for sceenwriters; good advice for short story writers; a fun exercise for novelists; a suicide note for wannabe memoirists.

>>23700574
I like "the fuck". I don't like the "what". Just THE FUCK. Stars don't glare anywhere, that's what makes them malevolent. Their distance. I think you're only missing a good "hitherto" to meet the Gothic quota. The thing is, you're using painfully familiar words to deal with the entirely unfamiliar. Rely on the body - on the physical effect. You've already got the outline of it what with the wind from the Griffin's wingbeats and all that. Just shut off the interior monologue, imagine it, and write from the gut. This sounds like an important story beat, so it's important it has some heart behind it.

Reading Calvino has been a disaster for my prose. He's too good, the style, the perspective shifts, the pacing, the narration. I can't help but imitate him, and a poor imitation I am.

>>23700794
Which one? Cloven Viscount filtered me, the rest that came before it was just icing on that cake I don't get to eat.

>>23700799
If on a Winter's Night a Traveler.

This was published, I have hope.

>>23700828
Oh yeah that one. Stick to one thing and do that one thing better. I got mad when I realized he was doing Rulfo and some others and a Tanizaki or some other jap story that all start like that. Steep Slope was my favorite, find your own waifu.

>>23700858
It only counts if it was trad published. Anyone can post their gibberish on Amazon these days.

>>23700892
Tradpubbed, picked up by a UK publisher for this edition. Not sure, but I think an anon wrote it, my archive dive was inconclusive on exactly what it is. I bought it for the cover that's been sitting in my meme folder since it came out, apparently.

>>23700921
Eh, the dates line up.

Remember, there's no one right way to write a draft. Some writers like to get the broad strokes down and fill in details later, while others may find that starting with rich, well-crafted scenes helps them feel more connected and invested in the story as they go. Do what works best for you! If getting the opening just right helps you move forward with confidence, then that's the path to take.

>>23700500

Don't mind what the others say, this is very good.

My quibble with it is mentioning that the office is out of a Chandler story when your story itself reads like detective fiction. It's uncanny and unpleasant.

Also don't know what kind of stunt you are trying to pull putting an em dash behind a parentheses like that .)--- seriously?

Don't stack parentheses and em dashes. It looks retarded.

>"show, don't tell!"
>world-renowned author Mikhail Dostoevsky: spends a whole chapter describing exactly and directly how Alyosha feels and why he feels that way
>nothing is being shown

what gives?

>>23701001
I was watching Story Grid on Youtube with Tim and the whole video was him saying you should show 100% of everything. Literally not one thought should be outright stated. You have to just show the person's facial expressions and actions and let the reader deduce how they feel.

In other videos he's talked about how great Harry Potter is... when the entire first chapter is 95% telling and exposition.

tl;dr, YT advice givers are hacks

>>23700986
I don't pay them no mind, I do need to fix some things );-v :DDDD
But seriously, good point on the chandler callout, it's not that kind of gothic noir anyway. An kind of anon is my audience, but it's very few of the writers in here. Some hang around. I'm surprised how many like the premise and relate to the actual protag when I mention it.

>>23701001
>>23701021

Show Don’t Tell is mostly bullshit. I think a lot of grifters claiming to be sages on r*ddit and YT have warped the message from a loose guideline for literal novices into a hard rule that they think needs to apply to every genre. They just like to parrot it because it’s snappy, makes them feel like “teachers” (and everyone else their uneducated underlings) and, ultimately, because it makes them feel better about their purple as fuck writing.

You should show and tell. Balance is key.

How many words are your chapters usually?

>>23701116
2k

>>23701116
Anywhere from 1k to 2.5k is the average.

This thread has made me realize that my work is worthless and dull. No use trying. Nothing ever fucking works out.

>>23701183
Post it

>>23700789
Yeah I think you're right, 2 and 4 seem the most realistic options. I think there will be some nicer folk wanting to do it for knowledge's sake but they only use that as a pretext

>I suspect that it's because this is a decidedly timid character who at first tries to conceal himself a person of little talent for the desperate sake of making friends.
I like that actually. I did intend the character to have a similar role as the Avatar in the world of Avatar: The Last Airbender.

>>23701183
yea, post it.
also the trick to writing is to be blissfully ignorant for the first 2000 hours or so. if you start writing and already know how shit you are, it's going to be rough

>>23701186
I already have.
In a few threads. The most complimentary response I got was "it's pulptastic".

>>23701177
How come when I Google it says 2000-4000?

>>23701094
True. It's storytelling, not storyshowing.

>>23700921
Being published by some tiny press with only a few dozen total titles doesn't really count as being 'tradpubbed', imo.

>>23701116
1.5k to 3k

>>23701213
Word count for the sake of word count is irrelevant. What matters is that you convey what you want to say in a clear and concise way

>>23700768
It probably wouldn't. Mountain top citadels like that in the real world (Machu Picchu and Masada are good examples, aren't able to produce enough food for large sustained populations. Machu Picchu had terraced gardens to grow corn and potatoes, but most of the food there was imported to feed the 700+ inhabitants. Masada didn't have any farms, but was able to store enough food and water for just under 1,000 Jewish rebels to hold out for a year.
Given this is fantasy though you can get away with it. Complex waterworks(look up schematics of waterwheels and pumps the Romans used to empty flooded mines) below the city pump water up from vast cisterns to the top of the mountain where it can be fed down again by gravity through several aqueducts to provide public water to palaces at the top, terraced farming, fountains, bathhouses, toilets, etc. Many of the nobles and wealthy will have their own cisterns below their houses. Some neighborhoods and sects will have their own cisterns as well. Many large buildings will double as gardens for their owners. Bulk grain is still likely imported, but many vegetables and fruits are able to be cultivated because of the water network and the collection of manure at the bottom of the hill. The city also sports the largest calves in the world because all you do is walk up hill.

>>23701177
1k is way too short, even for web novels which have shorter chapters than real novels

>>23701224
Still,it's better than self-pubbing on Amazon.
t. self-pubber on Amazon

>>23700768
>city like this would have issues with growing food.

Why would a city have to grow food? Throughout history cities have never been centers for food production. They import food from the countryside or sometimes even from afar.

what should i write?

>>23701428
I know what I'm writing.
A suicide note.

>>23701385
>>23701326
I wonder how Omashu survived Fire Nation sieges so well in the show. I guess it's a kids show so they kind of handwaived a bit of the logic.

>>23701203
I've already had a handful of short stories published. I just seem to have lost to the spark for writing, or so it would seem. I honestly don't know. Maybe I'm trying too hard. Maybe I'm letting these threads get to me. After all, the work that I did have published was from before I ever even came here looking for advice. I had a short story that I was exceptionally proud of get rejected by two different places in a very short period of time and I've never really recovered. I gave up writing for a couple of years and maybe I fucked up by thinking I should try again. I just want a victory of some sort, you know? Writing seemed like a good bet, because I've had a small victory or two in this field before. I haven't had anything go my way in three or four years.

this is for everyone, really

>>23701469
i will fix you.
first, take 10 minutes or so. no screens, no music, no nothing. do not dwell on yourself or your problems (unless that is the focus of your writing).
one might call this meditation, but we'll call it winding down.
for the next 30min-1hr, this is creative time. brainstorm, write jokes, whatever.
if you want to write them on computer, close out all software but your word processor. do not fuck around.
do this daily

>>23701116
1,500-2,000

Rarely go higher than that, and if I do it's just by a couple hundred. I think my highest ever was 2,300.

Starting a chapter tonight for a new story. Up to 1,501 exactly, and have about another paragraph or two to go. I just can't seem to ever get these giant chapters a lot of anons here seem to.

>>23701448
Seems like the Fire nation strategy is to burn the countryside, get the cities crowded, and then lay siege to one city after another until they fall to sheer might or wonder-weapons. Earth bender cities are going to be a pain to take. They can tunnel faster than you can dig to run supplies. Best counter I can think of is to locate tunnels by sound and vibrations and then fill them with smoke or send in kill teams.

>>23701356
Do you sell physical copies or just ebooks? Do you get a lot of sales?

these threads should be renamed.
something like /sffg wg/, becuae it's full of fags writing genre shit.

I can't help myself with these grandiose paragraphs, I've been reading too much old fantasy. How does this sound to you guys?

>>23698795
>More preferably, go read some fucking books.
Somehow this is often overlooked advice for writers.

>>23701001
Show don't Tell as a technique did not exist when Dostoyevsky was around. The concept is from the early 20th century, with its basis in earlier writers like Flaubert and Henry James. We don't know how Dostoyevsky woukd have done things if he had been aware of it.
Also it's not "mostly bullshit". It was instrumental in the evolution of the novel from what James called "great fluid puddings" into a more focused artform. You can write prose like you're in the 19th century if you want, but there are reasons why people generally don't do that anymore.

>>23698074
the oddest thing is the use of has in consecutive short sentences, id challenge you to find that proximous a use of the present perfect in published fiction

>>23697934
i mean i agree but it's better to ask and answer in here than to shill google which has and will continue to ruin the internet and the world

>>23701600
no

>>23700858
Yes, it's good. Now post your writing.

>>23701639
>its basis in earlier writers like Flaubert and Henry James
chekhov, bro? he was the one that popularized it as a concept; but it's always been in practice. from homer to shakespeare.
retards who complain about it really just don't get it. or get writing, and the lack of rules to begin with

>>23701672
Yes, reminder that Aristotle praised Homer because he intruded into the narrative less than other poets.
>Homer deserves praise for many things and especially for this, that alone of all poets he does not fail to understand what he ought to do himself. The poet should speak as seldom as possible in his own character, since he is not "representing" the story in that sense. Now the other poets play a part themselves throughout the poem and only occasionally "represent" a few things dramatically, but Homer after a brief prelude at once brings in a man or a woman or some other character, never without character, but all having character of their own.

>>23699157
solid kind of reads like doc savage. that sentence with large and big next to each other is awkward tho just use large again instead of big or use a different phrase mentioning its dimensions or something

>>23700986
also offices or houses in chandler novels are pretty specific to the character they belong to. there's not a standard type

>>23700574
really solid, third sentence in second paragraph could be rephrased a bit, 'in front of her' isn't exactly the best end to a sentence. maybe it would be ok if the beginning of the next sentence directly connected to it like 'the arch exploded into a volume of blood which battered her backwards with the force of a...' but the next sentence's opening doesn't connect

>>23697831
Bits of the prose are a little clumsy but it has really good imagery. Kept me reading through. Keep it up

>>23701737
I assume this is in response to
>>23701616
?

>>23701752
yes

>>23701616
AND THAT WAS HER ONLY NAME

Fucking epic.

There aren't enough books on killer sea creatures and ocean monsters, that's what I should write.

>>23701777
Thanks, 4 hours writing today and I got 600 words that still need another revision. Surely this new approach is worth it.

>>23701618
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA-UBVKQFM0

They WILL read more than the single formative series that they're emotionally captured by and hanging onto in their permanent adolescence.

>>23701795
Sounds like you want to explore it with a Horror bent?

>>23701795
Write one about the black dragonfish

splundy

>>23701822
Definitely. A monstrous shark and an angry fisherman (I know this sounds identical to Jaws) locked in a head-to-head two-way cat-and-mouse battle sounds so interesting to me. It doesn't just have to be a sea creature either, the same sort of thing with a crocodile or a bear also sounds interesting to me, but I think it being set in the ocean sounds more interesting because you're in their territory now, humans, for the most part, are like fish out of water when they're in the ocean.

How awful is it?

>>23701839
I can't understand any of it.

>>23701859
It's an older excerpt. What about this one? It's from a month ago.

>>23701828
Good idea, anon, I'll add it to the list of potential animals.

Maybe not the right thread to ask this but I'm having trouble understanding the use of the relative pronoun 'that' in this sentence:
>where we wrought that shall break the teeth of time
Does 'that' refer here to the people working or to the product of their work?

>>23701876
I think a qualified doctor should go through your pills list with a critical eye.

>>23701895
>Does 'that' refer here to the people working or to the product of their work?
the location, the 'where'
...would be my guess

>>23697934
Neat. Let me give it a shot. Always wanted to try writing long reddit posts.

How to Write a Scene for Morons 101:

1.) Write a simple conversation scenario like one you’d see in an English textbook or YouTube comment sections.
Mr. Anonson is asking the nice FBI agent for directions.
Mr. Anonson: Hello, Mr. FBI man. I’m looking for the hentai convention that’s supposed to be around here somewhere, but I just can’t find it. Can you help point the way for me?
FBI agent: Why, of course. Just take a right at the next intersection *he points with his index finger* then go straight ahead. You should find it in a windowless building next to McDonalds.
Mr. Anonson: Why, thank you. You’ve been a real help—Hey, wait a minute. How did you know who I was Mr. FBI man? I never gave you my name.
FBI agent: *Laughs* Oh, don’t be silly, Mr. Anonson. We’re the FBI, we know everybody. Especially a famous frog poster such as yourself.
Mr. Anonson: Golly! I didn’t know I was famous. *Laughs* Well, thanks again anyway Mr. FBI man.
Mr. Anon waves goodbye to the nice FBI agent and goes his merry way.

2.) Move things around to make it look more like something you’d see in a novel, while touching up your grammar and flow.
Mr. Anonson was asking the nice FBI agent for directions.
“Hello, Mr. FBI man,” Mr. Anonson said. “I’m looking for the hentai convention that’s supposed to be around here somewhere, but I just can’t find it. Can you help point the way for me?”
“Why, of course, Mr. Anonson. Just take a right at the next intersection.” The FBI agent pointed with his index finger. “Then go straight ahead. You should find it in a windowless building next to McDonalds.”
“Why, thank you. You’ve been a real help—Hey, wait a minute. How did you know who I was, Mr. FBI man? I never gave you my name.”
The FBI agent laughed “Oh, don’t be silly, Mr. Anonson. We’re the FBI, we know everybody. Especially a famous frog poster such as yourself.”
“Golly! I didn’t know I was famous.” Mr. Anonson joined in the laugh. “Well, thanks again anyway Mr. FBI man.”
Mr. Anon waved goodbye to the nice FBI agent and went his merry way.

3.) Add more stuff to your narrative, that is every outside of the quotation marks. For genre fiction, you want to aim for a 50/50 split between dialogue and narrative. For literature, you may want to aim higher. One way of doing this is by making it seem like your protagonist was the one who wrote the narrative himself after the fact. Have him narrate his actions and describe the sight, sound, touch, and smell. He may mix in some of his thoughts and opinions in the way he recounts the past, or he may show off his le epic /lit/ cred by drawing from Ulysses. Or your narrator may not be the main character at all, but a third party who observes the story from a more objective, or romantic, or comedic, or scientific point of view. This step is up to you and how you want your prose to be.

>>23701965
Thanks! Seems like it's not that obvious overall.
By the way, it's from the Yeats poem 'The New Faces'

>>23701972
this is an interesting point to start from. in more ways than one... i'm just making a leap here; but, do you write web series? not judging, just curious

>>23701986
i've just read it, a few times. i doubt the sense/imagery i got was what he intended; because it really is difficult to understand. but it was nice anyway.

Hi everyone I’m sorry if this is the wrong place but I just finished a film script and I would like to pay to have it edited and the dialogue vamped a little but I don’t really believe Jenny from writers.com is going to get my vision.
It is about 7.5k words and I am happy to drop like 200 usd and am happy to wait up to 3 months I am willing to pay for a trial page (10usd) and if I think we will work I will pay the rest per chapter as you send them to me.
As you can probably tell from the above im a creative im not great with format and my dialogue is also shocking so I would really appreciate your input. It is going to be an incredibly armature found footage where Blair witch meets the empty man. please feel free to enquire:
theegoanditsthrone@proton.me
Thank you very much

>>23697148
here's my book anon

John was chilling.
saw a monster.
ran from it.
escape?
monster is still out there, though, and John changed forever dun dun dun!!!!

>>23701909
>I think a qualified doctor should go through your pills list with a critical eye.
Jesus fucking Christ, is nothing I write even decent? :(
Should I give up or try rewriting?

Do you think readers will understand the significance of a hand injury in a work with [retty queer characters?

>>23702189
I mean, your work is not bad-bad. It's definitely creative and unique and without technical error. It's just beyond an ordinary human's ability to follow.

Do you get anything from this or does it just come across like nonsense?

>>23700083
do your closest friend regularly read books?
you may not want to know this, but a lot of people who say they read dont actually.

>>23702206
I don't get it either. Fingering failure?

>>23702214
Dude gets stabbed in a labyrinth by a robot who was human, sure. Although it does seems a bit contrived, because you says the robot's prime directive is stabbing people, yet this is also something it does to spare others from becoming robots themselves. I'd imagine whatever or whoever is turning people into robots could probably gets more values from live people and thus wouldn't need a stabbing robot.

>4k words per chapter
Have I lost it?

>>23702311
No, that's very reasonable

>>23702323
How about 40k words per chapter?

>>23701538
This isn't too different than what I do already though.

How do litfic fags cope with the knowledge that their work won't even be half as influential or important as what genre authors like King pump out? Lovecraft continues to have a bigger influence on culture than ANY litfic produced in the last 40+ years, and he wrote for fucking Weird Tales nearly a century ago.

>>23702282
you made me write down a bunch of context to explain the scene but now i know how genius it is so I'm not going to share it :^)

>>23702360
I don't know if it will or if it won't. Schrodingers novel.

>>23702360
yes but Lovecraft is problematic due to the rampant racism in his works.

>>23702426
Oh, you're retarded. I guess that probably helps with the coping.

>>23702334
My brother in Christ that's a whole ass book

>>23702426
And? Better to be influential and problematic than a pretentious, pseudointellectual hack

>>23702213
>I mean, your work is not bad-bad.
I think I can do better, that's all. I just want some answers, that's all.

>>23701444
Offtopic. Take your depressive whining to /adv/

>>23702360
"Lit fic" is just the drama genre.

>>23701593
Both, and no.

Just watched a video that had some writing exercises in it and I did them along with the guy and it wasn't as hard as I thought it would be.

>>23702622
100%

>my friend is looking for a writer for a nukige are you interested?
is it time to write the sloppiest slop of my life?

At least half of you fuckers would sell your work if you stopped going through endless rewrites and editing AND learned some basic business sense. Im looking through here and I've seen popular published works worse than half of this shit. Stop comparing yourselves to the top 0.1% of writers and just fucking publish; you don't need to be a world superstar just focus on amassing a niche following.

>>23702778
This nigga thinks quality = publishable.

>>23702778
>just fucking publish
>Sends book to publishers.
>Sorry, anon, this just isn't what we're looking for.

>Tries to self-publish.
>Opens wallet.
>Moths start flying out.

>>23702778
Based, my man

>>23702808
>>23702812
>what is "basic business sense"?

>>23702820
You mean knowing people and being on the good end of nepotism for once? Or just being female?

>>23702844
You could always become female. That’s a thing, now. All it takes is putting on a dress and applying whorish makeup.

>>23702622
I wouldn’t expect some simpleton who writes about chosen one defeating the evil elf wizard of evil to appreciate the value of literary fiction.

>>23702914
what if the evil elf wizard has huge tits and the chosen one defeated her with his cock

>>23702927
I'm going to need you to be more detailed and/or provide pics.

>>23702914
Fantasy can portray themes just as well as any other genre. To say otherwise is to either reveal your lack of creativity or your obnoxious pretentiousness.

>>23702778
You only get one chance to make a first impression.

should i start getting into wine or whisky? as a literary man, which one will improve my life more?

>>23702979
Alcohol is a carcinogen

>>23702979
You want the spirit of the grape or grain guiding you? The barrel wood also has its own properties. I'll post some excerpts from a monograph later.

>>23702974
No. Fantasy is just for retarded coomers like yourself or this guy. >>23702927 I get that, being a retarded coomer, you consider “big tiddied elf” to be a deep theme, but for normal people it’s really, really not.

>>23703040
This nigga out here trolling.

>>23703040
would you like it more if the evil elf wizard was a loli?

>>23702979
Neither, they both taste like shit no matter what ones you get.

>>23703074
But then she can’t have big tits.

>>23703093
yeah if the guy doesn't think the big tit evil elf wizard is a good plot we can instead use a mesugaki loli evil elf wizard.

Thoughts on a third person novel that switches to first person in the last chapters revealing the MC was a manchild who kept talking in the third person and had an extreme sense of depersonalization?

>>23702979
Wine is great for writing, avoid hard liquor at all costs. I don't what it is but a glass of wine seems to really grease the wheels.

Is this sentence grammatically correct?

>For as many stayed to challenge them, so as many died.

>>23702914
>he thinks that "the chosen one" is the only fantasy trope
shit writer detected

>>23702903
>>23702844
I just found out that there's people who don't have healthy relationships with the opposite sex, that shit must suck.

How do you guys build your vocabulary? Do you just stick to reading, looking up any words you don't recognize? Play vocabulary games? Something else?

>>23703220
Yeah that's about it. Repetition legitimizes.

>>23703220
Read older novels

>>23698053
anyone have experiences with a teacher as useless as the Harry Potter divination teacher?

I want to write at least one uselessly bad teacher.

>>23703459
That's 90% of the teachers I had.

>>23703464
sucks to hear

public school? Cause if it was a private school I'd fucking hate to hear my parents spent money for that shit

>>23703470
No worries, it was only taxpayer money wasted. As a kid, I just thought that's how teachers are, but looking back as an adult, I can only wonder who hired those people and why. Definitely not because of impressive resume.

>>23703506
my sister's a teacher

A teacher basically passes the interview and then their union pretty much makes them unfirable after a while unless they diddle a student or some crap

So a teacher only has to be competent for the first bit and then basically "don't fuck students/swear at them/call them slurs" and you're set. She said most teachers give 0 fucks after that first bit and it really shows.

What's a better way to say that a small group are exchanging worried looks? It just sounds silly and cartoonish when I write it out.

My sentences always seem to end up looking like "He did something and then he did something." or "He did something, then something else."
Any tips on how to alleviate this?

Literature and genre fiction are both fine you absolute fucking cretins. Stop trying to shoehorn fucking everything into some box and belittling people who try to write what they enjoy. Like half of Americans are retarded and can't even write on the level of a 50's fifth grader, stop attacking people because they like reading about Sally May learning the value of being a mother or the paladin saving the day. At least they're reading, writing, and making an effort to engage with the legacy of their forefathers.

>>23702778
you’re right. i’ve spent so much time reading good and bad works, studying great works, writing, editing, etc. that i’ve forgotten what the median looks like.

thanks for the advice anon. will update the thread if i sell a story.

>>23703549
This. People read mainly to be entertained, whether that's some story about some magical kid killing a dragon or some philosophical slice-of-life yarn. 90% of the retards in these threads seem to have forgotten that.

>>23703513
there was a misandrist, 70 year old teacher at my school who was racist towards blacks, irish, and whites men. during a reading of To Catch a Mockingbird, she read aloud nigger and stared at the only black student as she did so.

>>23703533
You could say they tensed up and exchanged glances, the "worried" part is implied.
You could imply they're worried by making them reduce or stop whatever they were doing before, like chit-chatting, fiddling with their pens, something.
Alternatively give them a displacement activity, like they get even more rowdy when worried to compensate.

>>23703566
well, it also takes ages for the union to actually reprimand a teacher

The one teacher who got fired for asking if the one black kid robbed any old ladies on his way to school only got fired like years after

>>23703570
she actually retired before anything happened to her.

>>23703546

>>23703546
Focusbon emotion and your characters thoughts, not just their actions. Also descriptions.

>>23703573
smart

if she waited around another half a decade she might've gotten a somewhat stern warning

What kind of editors do I need if I want to get trad published, before querying? How much should I expect to pay?

>>23703723
Most editors and publishers don't want you to seek an editor beforehand, so that the publisher assigns one of their own editors. However you need to do a couple of revisions beforehand.

>>23703729
So I don't need to bother with editors assuming that I've edited it until it's 'good enough' from my perspective? And assuming that my copy editing is good.

>>23703737
if you want to be trad pubbed what matters most is marketability, not quality. publishers want to make money. they are companies

>>23702426
If something that minor bothers you it means you aren't being challenged enough. You need to put down your therapy kitten and get outsize your comfort zone more.

>Find a writing friend on discord
>Share chapters, concepts, literary devices
>Starts ghosting me
>See they're still posting chapters
>Completely ripped off all of my ideas and story points
>Some text even straight up copy pasted

Can't say I'm surprised, but damn.

>>23703756
>what matters most is marketability, not quality
That's the truth. Just look at Sanderson and Rowling for proof.

>>23703828
>Rowling
>Bad writer

Retard.

>>23703830
Among the worst of the modern day "geniuses".

>>23703756
>if you want to be trad pubbed what matters most is marketability,
I don't know how to apply that to my editing. Unless you mean I should work on the pitch in the query letter?

>>23702110
masterpiece!

>Fantasy story
>Oh boy, I sure hope this is original!
>Magic school

FUCKING DROPPED STOP FUCKING DOING THIS

Rowling is pretty good at writing children's books. The fact she was idolized by adult millennials is hardly her fault tbf.

>>23703887
How else are magicians supposed to learn?

>>23703893
I was talking shit about her because of her unoriginal ideas and bad writing style. Kids lap it up because they have shit when it comes to good taste. You want to get rich, market your slop to impressionable children.

>>23703903
Accio magical knowledge!

>>23703823
What will he do if you don't feed him anymore?

Would you trust ChatGPT and OpenAI jannies to audit your manuscript draft for continuity?

>>23703887
I'm looking for magic school stories, share some.

>>23703903
Perhaps, and hear me out on this, start AFTER the schooling period of MCs life, or even better: be fucking original.

>>23703928
Pretty sure you can pick up any fantasy book and have a 1 in 3 chance of getting what you want.

>>23703954
>Pretty sure you can pick up any fantasy book and have a 1 in 3 chance of getting what you want.
I've read around a dozen fantasy novels this year and not one had magic schools.

>>23703903
NTA but maybe the medieval apprenticeship model
i think it's pretty underrated/underutilised, could be a lot of potential there

>>23703973
I like it. A school is by definition impersonable, it's supposed to mass-produce a certain kind of education. Apprenticeship has more flair, you can really show someone's unique way of teaching.

>>23703923
Continuity, no. But I have ran my draft through ChatGPT to correct grammar errors. It got about 80% of them that I know of, though I had to keep reminding it to focus and keep on track instead of going off on tangents.

I'm doing a fantasy story now that has a magic school. I'm now thinking the apprenticeship model might be better. Whatever I choose, it'll only appear in one chapter and never again so it probably doesn't make a huge difference.

>>23703864
I was more responding to your general clarifier, "I want to be published". To make sure you knew what the #1 factor in that is, with a huge margin to #2

>>23704012
>apprenticeship
>one chapter
then you're missing out a huge part of its appeal, i think. the mentor-apprentice relationship is worth exploring

>>23703907
Rowling was popular with all ages, that's why she sold so many damn copies
I remember my mom reading the series along with us as they released. They're like great pixar films--meant for kids, sure, but adults love them too

>>23703923
Not in the slightest. These chatbots are not intelligent--any intelligence tasks they will fail at. They're especially bad at reasoning and even to this day fail simple reasoning questions.

They're pretty good proofreaders though, if you know how to use them right. Even semi-decent at line editing, if not using ChatGPT and one of the better creative-writing AIs

>>23704021
I'm sure it is. It's just not what my story is about though. It's more about the consequences after getting a job.

>>23704004
>>23704035
I wouldn't trust any chatbot results without verifying by hand, I'm just more concerned about feeding my shit into something that could steal my info. But I guess I'll wade through 150k words by hand.

>>23703823
I'm not saying this didn't happen, but I am doubtful

Like fucking why? I can only assume you're a total nobody without much success to your name, so what's the point of stealing from you?

>Still posting chapters
Means this is a web novel this happened with. How did he steal your ideas to work into his web novel?

Whether or not this is true, my closing remark is the same: lmao

>>23703828
I would rather read Sanderson or Rowling than whatever insufferable "literature" you suggest

>>23704051
I like Carmilla by Sheridan Le Fanu.

>>23704057
Isn't that the lesbian vampire book?

sanderson is fun

>finish chapter
>feel pretty satisfied
>read through it again
>realize I've written the same ending as a previous chapter
Fuck.

>>23704059
Yes. It's very well written.

>>23703923

They will just take your input and spit it out on somebody else's screen. Whenever you ask it to write some story for you, it's using some other fool's story that he fed into the bot. It's very clever that robot.

>>23704018
My bad. Is there anything I can do to figure out the marketability of my book?

>>23697148

For someone who is 25, would someone who is 85 be their grandfather or the great grandfather?

>>23704100
Grandfather imo. When I was around 18 my grandfather was 84.

>>23704100
Most likely grandfather. Though if you're writing a story set in the pre-baby boom past or in some 3rd world country you might lean more towards great grandfather.

>>23704100
My father's 83. I'm 41. My hypothetical kid would probably be early 20s.

>>23703157
It's more or less what I'm doing, for similar and different reasons. I think using it as a twist is lame and Fight Club already did it, so avoid that. It's a common device when used in other ways, Fleur Jaeggy digs hard into it throughout SS Proleterka. Obscene Bird of Night also takes it to extremes.

Whatever you do, you have to make sure that it serves the story and doesn't look like a twist if you don't intend it to be.

>NEW
NEW
>>23704356
>>23704356
>>23704356
>>23704356
>>23704356

>>23703996
Even more entertaining if the teacher is unwilling, at least initially. Maybe the apprentice is a nephew or niece whose parents have died, leaving the master little choice in the matter

>>23702778
Got any tips for submitting MG/YA? Haven't seriously considered tradpub route until just recently so I'm not too knowledgeable on any unspoken expectations. Do I just shoot my shot at Scholastic or other publishers research crops-up?