/lit/ - Literature

Should I use the Ranieri pronunciation or Modern Greek pronunciation?

>>23513389
Retardo delenda est
Seriously annoying that he isn't banned yet, but what can ya do.

>Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism the destroyer. Nevertheless, the Galilean, who later was called the Christ, intended something quite different. He must be regarded as a popular leader who took up His position against Jewry. Galilee was a colony where the Romans had probably installed Gallic legionaries, and it's certain that Jesus was not a Jew. The Jews, by the way, regarded Him as the son of a whore—of a whore and a Roman soldier. The decisive falsification of Jesus's doctrine was the work of St. Paul. He gave himself to this work with subtlety and for purposes of personal exploitation. For the Galilean's object was to liberate His country from Jewish oppression. He set Himself against Jewish capitalism, and that's why the Jews liquidated Him.
Philologically speaking, was he right?

>>23513400
Are you reading poetry or are you trying to talk to modern Greek people? If the former, Ranieri. If the latter, don't learn Ancient Greek.

>>23513403
I agree, but best not to dwell on it. Let's try to keep the thread on topic.

>>23513414
No, now fuck off

>>23513414
Yes.

>>23513414
Latine roga.

>>23513414
Damn this is actually believable. Too bad modern Biblical scholarship is too cucked to investigate it further.

Reminder to report and ignore off topic posts. Engaging is the worst response.

I'm still upset that I didn't buy the Old Norse dictionary when I had the chance
It was $70 AUD in great condition, the price only making sense because it was being sold in Australia
Meanwhile if I want to buy it now it's going to cost me $600AUD and I'd have to ship it from overseas
I'm so fucking stupid
Also I had a chance to buy a great condition Oxford published Lewis & Short dictionary for $100

>>23513454
Are there at least scans of it online? I don't know the state of online Old Norse resources.

>>23513464
So this is partly my justification for not buying it but it's available fully digitalised here
https://old-norse.net/search.php
Also available in scans as well
The website is extremely convenient because you can search up alternative spellings and different inflections and if they're found in the dictionary entry it'll give you the right entry
Still it'd be nice to own but not necessary

>Πρόσταγμα

>>23513473
At least the knowledge isn't lost to you, then. But I will admit, there is something fun about sitting there at your desk, translating ancient texts entirely unconnected from the internet. It's a timeless hobby for a reason.

>>23513414
>He set Himself against Jewish capitalism, and that's why the Jews liquidated Him.

1. Capitalism as an idea is specifically post-industrialist world. In antiquity, they weren’t capitalists but mercantilists.

2. Jesus said you should render unto Caesar what is Caesars. Ie Pay taxes and money to the government and don’t fight back from the established order. In that regard, he was Uber cucked.

>>23513501
Jesus said that according to the (((Pauline))) Gospels. There's probably an Aryan gospel that notes down what he actually preached that they burned.

>>23513476
Fuck off kike.

>>23513400
Use French pronunciation.

>>23513400
For Greek? The modern, definitely. It's still the same living language.
>>23513415
>muh poooeeetryyy
Does it have rhyme? Oh, no? Not poetry then, sorry.

>>23513610
The problem with the Ecclesiastical Italianate pronunciation is only that it takes the wrong, non-conservative language as its basis. If it was based on Spanish or Portuguese, there would be much less problems with it.

>>23513619
>Implying spanish or - God forbid- Portuguese gets you closer than Italian

>>23513654
back to the wow thread, you moron.

>>23513654
Yo wanto uno burrito s'il vous plaît

>>23513476
Kill yourself fasciculum

>>23513687
>>23513654
See >>23513293
Iberian languages are the most conservative.

my lexicon has begun

>>23513876
Shouldn't it be masculinum?

>>23513878
Da, quaeso, mihi veniam. Sum barbarus.

>>23513891
fīnīre*

>>23513891
Ille est omnia excrementum, tu fasciculum. Vade mori nunc et lasciate nos solos

>>23513619
El verum problema est quod tu es una fasciculum

>>23513921
>nos solos
Salve, o Juanito

>>23513929
>pig latin with spanish syntax
Who asked for this?

>>23513891
Nemo non te dara quaeso ibi

>>23513501
Ego odio omnia los iudeos

>>23513961
Resident troll, don't respond

>>23513510
Christianity is like an even more life denying version of Platonism where you are so caught up in the immaterial, permanent world that you don’t pay any attention at all to the material conditions around you. Jesus is a neutered version of Socrates who denies politics or any physical betterment for the men around him.

>>23513619
But there is a Spanish ecclesiastical pronuntiation, and it is in no way better than the Italian one.
> Cicero is pronounced θiθero

>>23513991
Soft C is present everywhere but in Sardinian so you have to deal with it anyway. Yet retracted S and B, D, and G as fricatives anyway bring it somewhat closer, and Spanish might be advocated through being the by far most spoken Romance language the same way as we use modern standard mainland Greek and not Cypriot Greek pronunciation to read ancient texts despite the latter being more conservative. Meanwhile with Portuguese you add nasal vowels, dark L, and different qualities of former long and short vowels, and those come to be pretty much all non-Italian things present in reconstruction.

>>23513414
Why does this relate to Latin or language?

>>23514202
He said “Philologically speaking” which makes it on topic somehow

>>23514204
It would only make it a reason for inquiry was in the dubious quote itself. He could and may aswell go to the /math/ threads on /sci/ and ask how that quote relates mathematically speaking to proving Hitler right here.

>>23513985
>>23513510
Can you imbeciles leave this thread already? Not only do you have no clue what you're talking about, but you're off-topic. Just go back to /pol/ and /x/; those are clearly the boards you want to be on anyway. You're a literal psycho-spiritual cancer.

>>23513476
I didn't think we would look like this in 3d. I'm too used to the blury man

In Illuga saga Gríðarfóstra a man wants to go with his friend, the king's son, on a viking journey of plunder
His mother thinks he isn't experienced enough to go
Well we're told that his mother has a servant woman who knows a lot and is a witch (rider of the night) and also that she has treated a lot of men badly
Anyway his mother tells him to go get her shovel from a mountain hut and as he goes, a monster jumps on his back and starts hitting him with a stick
It turns out that it's the servant woman
He keeps on walking with this woman on his back until he finds a big stone
He throws the woman so hard on the stone that her spine breaks and she dies
He goes home and his mother asks if he has any news and whether he saw this woman
He says he killed her and his mother smiles and says he can go on the viking journey ow
Idk what I just read, it's fucking weird

>>23514350
Welcome to Norse stories. I felt similar about the Hávámal. Not because of the contents on their own per se, but it wasn’t what I expected from a supposed Religious book, or what I thought was one.

>>23514247
It's one of the merrier consequences of being Remade; or 'Retold' as they're calling it.

The last few chapters of Athenaze are getting a bit shit, it's mostly adaptations of Thucydides but half of the words haven't shown up yet so most of it is translated right below the Greek text and it's impossible not to look at

>>23513991
Holy kino

>>23514709
Level up and give the definitions in Greek

>>23514709
It's preparing your anus for your first actual text since that is coming soon

There is simply no way for a textbook to provide you "gradually" with all the words you need to translate. Your first encounter with real texts will be like the Thucydides, except no vocabulary gloss at the bottom.

>>23515046
Why the obsession with translation?
Do you want to become a translator?

If u don’t use Ecclesiastical or the pronunciation traditional to ur cunt, ur a zogcucked rootless cosmopolitan

>>23513985
You're absolutely right

>>23514709
>but half of the words haven't shown up yet so most of it is translated right below the Greek text and it's impossible not to look at
Did you think you could learn an entire language through pictures and context alone?

>>23514709
Enjoy reading anything that’s not Xenophon/Plato/NT and having to look up every other word. That’s most actual Greek.

>>23515060
U know what he means Ranierinigger

>>23515236
Ranieri est un verum fasciculum. El pessimus de omnia los fasciculumes.

>Ulixēs vērō ancillīs "Stāte, ōrō vōs," inquit "procul, dum ego ipse corpus lavō: nam pudet mē nūda membra ante puellārum oculōs ostendere.
wow he's literally me

>>23514709
>>23515046
You can use the perseus vocab tool to prepare for specific texts. Here's Thucydides History of Peloponnese War: https://vocab.perseus.org/word-list/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0003.tlg001.perseus-grc2/?scope=core&freqrange=0%2C8
You can choose other texts from the Editions list.
Use the slider to filter from both ends. Filter out the most frequent words, because they will mostly be words you already know, and filter the least frequent, because they only appear once, and you're left with a solid vocab list to study.

hit show all
copy and paste into excel - it will auto separate into columns
then delete unecessary columns, save as csv, and import into anki (make sure to change the delimiter to comma when you import)
wala you've got the perfect study tool to tackle a new text without much frustration

>>23515481

>filter until count frequency is 25 times
>still left with 3,582 lemmas

god

>>23515499
25 isn't that high

>>23515481
Steadman's Anabasis (Xenophon) is a good starter text since it does much of this for you

Is Ranieri's pronunciation any good? To my untrained ear his stress and vowel length seem inconsistent, but I'm a novice so what do I know

>>23515499
You can filter out the low frequency words too. Once you get rid of the words that appear once or twice the number of lemmas should drop significantly. Of course then you won't know them when you read, but at least you'll have the most frequent down so you get interrupted less.

>>23514105
I feel any regional pronunciation of Latin is at least useful for the conventional articulation of Latin words when speaking a vernacular language. The church pronunciation probably bears the most relevance for being the language of the strongest and most established surviving community of users of the language with the Vatican along with the rest of its enthusiasts throughout Italy.

Latinchads, what attracts you to language over Greek and what writers do you find to be superior to their closest Greek counterparts?

>>23515870
God speaks to us in Latin, not Hellene. QED.

>>23515870
It's easier. Greek is superior in pretty much every way, but I am too brainlet

>>23515870
>what writers do you find to be superior to their closest Greek counterparts
Ovid
Catullus
Augustine
And literally all medieval and renaissance authors

>>23515939
Meleager mogs Catullus
Sapphic fragments super mog Catullus
Actually everyone mogs Catullus. His work survived only by accident and would be considered a minor poet below the level of Tibullus if not for lol benis and buttsex :D

>>23515962
>Sapphic fragments
>the grass is green
WOAH WHAT A GENIUS HOLY SHIT
>the maidens dance in a circle
HOLY BASED WHAT A FEMALE PRESENTING GENIUS OH MY TESTICLES
>they held vases in the honor of the husband
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH IM SAPPHING SO HARD SISTERS

>>23515093
>a zogcucked rootless cosmopolitan
So a Roman?
>>23515634
Again, the point is, reconstruction is not something out of place that sounds nothing like a Romance language, it sounds just like Portuguese due to features I listed which is one of the most conservative Romance languages. People's perception is just screwed to Italian for some unknown reason.
>Vatican
Italy is mostly atheistic anon. Only Poles are Catholic in Europe but they have their own pronunciation.

>>23515962
Sappho es una fascicula

>>23515870
It was easier to find learning materials.

I don't even know if I like any ancient authors.

>>23516161
Ego seriosamente spero quod tu fasciculumes non facio id

Have any of you used Duolingo to learn Latin? Is it good?

>>23516246
No

>>23516246
Don't listen to the trolls. Duolingo is fun and effective and the only research-based method.

Is Latin more like Spanish or English?

>>23515962
But what survives of Sappho is so little that reading Catullus will be much more rewarding, just because you have a lot more to read.
>>23516103
Ya cállate, imbécil.

>>23516388
Occidere tu ipsum fasciculum

I just read 3 sentences without searching anything up because I could intuit the meaning of the words correctly
Feels good man

>>23516960
How'd the fourth sentence go, fasciculum?

>>23516002
Sugere mi gallus tu fasciculum

>>23516388
Wrong. Catullus is a nothing compared to Sappho. He's funny, but Sappho is profound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C77anb2DJGk
This makes me want to learn Latin
How much of a commitment is learning Latin?

>>23516289
What a troll.

>>23516246
Just get a good Latin book.

>>23517187
Not much. Just hop on Duolingo 20 minutes day.

>>23517191
Los libros de la lingua latina sont omnia inutiles, o tu magna fasciculum. Duolingo est melior quod illos.
Vade mori

>>23517226
>t. moron

>>23517222
Nah I'm thinking about spending 2 hours a day for the first few weeks and reducing it down to 40-60 minutes a day afterwards

>>23516246
It's very bad and not even correct in many cases, just pick up any Latin textbook made in the past 200 years.

>>23517187
It's fairly big. The textbook phase is easy enough since it's all laid out for you and frankly anybody can learn their conjugation tables and memorize 500-2000 basic vocab words. The problem comes after that, in the long middle phase after the textbook but before being really good at it. Everybody struggles in that phase because it's like suddenly going from English 101 to trying to read 16th century Elizabethan aphorists. Classical Latin is fucking hard.

However that middle phase is basically just daily practice and, imho, not thinking too hard about how to measure your practice. 6 months to 2 years in that mode is probably reasonable, so you have to learn to enjoy the process.

>>23513389
I want to start learning Latin, do I start with Wheelock's Latin or somewhere else? I've heard immersion is the best way to learn a language, is that possible with Latin via videos or documentaries?

>>23517230
Duolingo est la unica methodus quod se auxilium per la investigatio
Las ceteras methodus non sunt probatus

>>23517274
Duolingo 20 minutes a day is honestly fine. Some YouTube videos might be okay too.

>>23517233
You'll burn out. Slow and steady.

>>23517233
Why would you use duolingo when you can literally just use a textbook which not only provides explanations, how to actually understand grammar and useful translation exercises? It's like shooting yourself in the foot before taking a run. You will not learn how to read any real Latin text seriously using duolingo.

>>23517280
Aight cheers will start on that then, doesn't seem as boring as slogging through a textbook

>>23517280
Youtube videos on Latin are actually quite good and will get you farther than ANY language than/on Duolingo will.

>>23517497
Oh, never mind. Don’t use Duolingo at all. Will just fuck ya up. Sad, because it could actually be good if it wasn’t optimised like shit.

>>23517274
1 chapter of Lingua Latina and Wheelock's a day, the latter is less important and is more for getting a brief overview of how Latin grammar works. Don't commit the rules to memory. Duolingo is absolutely useless

>>23517502
>>23517578
What's wrong with Duolingo? Seems at first glance to be simple and easy to approach

>>23517578
>Lingua Latina
Which one from the Mega would you recommend?

>>23517611
It's a waste of time. A part from a negligible amount of vocab here and there, you won't progress further with duolingo than you would with the 5 first chapters of wheelock.

>>23517620

>>23517611
Like every other app or website nowadays it's primarily designed to keep you engaged with it as much as possible, which means it tries to trick you into thinking you know more of the language than you actually do so you use the app more. Any other method of language learning is more effective, but I'm all in on the Comprehensive Input meme because it's worked incredibly well for me, it's worth doing a bit of research into that if you're interested.

>>23517620
Familia Romagna, should just be "Part 1" in the Mega. When you finish that read something else like De Bello Gallico before going on to Roma Aeterna. Some advice: never translate anything you read into English. You're trying to learn Latin, not how to translate Latin into English

>>23517646
>>23517650
So is Lingua Latina just completely written in Latin and you're just meant to pick it up from being able to translate simply to English?

How much harder would it be to learn latin through trying to translate texts with dictionaries and grammar cheat sheets open than to do lingua?

I've tried lingua before but I could only handle so much of the endless stream of X Y est sentences

>>23517666
Yeah it's written in Latin and on the margins there are notes about the grammar
Also at the end of each chapter there is a summary of the grammar that was taught
The ideal situation would be to not translate
Instead you should read the Latin left to right or listen to the Latin and try to understand what each sentence means without recourse to English

>>23517667
Just use Wheelock, If you work through it at least twice, you will be ready to tackle Caesar and Cicero.

>>23517681
iirc there is also a book in the resources section itt, about learning and teaching Familia Romana; should there be the need.

>>23517695
Yeah you're right
I should have mentioned that
It's the Companion to Familia Romana
Imo if you've learnt a language before you don't need it, you just need to be aware that inflection is a thing which happens in Latin and have a general idea of what the basic uses of each case are but if you're new to language learning it'd probably save a lot of pain if you use the Companion

>>23517695
>>23517699
Cheers will give it a crack
I'm interested in being able to write poetry in Latin, how long/difficult do you think that would be to do?

>>23517750
Won't be easy, will probably take years.

>>23517278
It's trash, but do what you want.

>>23517646
Would going through this be helpful if I want to learn Old French and to read Medieval Latin?

>>23517750
>>23517751
i started learning latin in i think late march or early april this year, and after having spent at least a few hours per day (often 5+), I would now say I am at a semi-comfortable level with the language and can enjoy some poetry and could probably soon begin to try to write some, atleast if I had any sense for rhytm or meter.

Latin is definitively a hard language with the verb conjugations (third conjugation verb perfects give me nightmares) and correlatives (the Wiktionary correlative table is a godsend) being probably the hardest things. Other challenges include:

-adjective/noun declinations having same forms for completely different things (like feminine nominative and neuter plural)
-the way classical authors sometimes say sentences in weird ways, i am not sure why
-shit like imperfect subjunctive passive
-hyperbaton, especially in poetry

Latinitium's stories are pretty good but as expected, there isnt a lot of digital content for latin, written authors are the way to go. De bello gallico gets recommended a lot, I found it kinda hard. I enjoyed De natura deorum.
>>23517341
that definitively wont be enough unless you want to spend years before even approaching classical authors (which is what they do at school)
>>23517278
yeah this aint it chief

>>23517921
>like feminine nominative and neuter plural
nigga we have that in english...

>>23517940
no we dont. all words are the same gender and to make a plural you just add s to the end of the noun. in my experiences the fact that latin permits concisesness in the form of adjectival inflexion makes you rely on it, and when the exact inflection isn't clear, it makes it harder. if you are gonna rely on inflection, it would be easier if everything were to have its own inflection. it isnt it too bad but especially recognizing feminine ablatives in some ciceronian circlejerkery can be tricky.

>>23517894
>Would going through this be helpful if I want to learn Old French
No. Learn Old French to read Old French.
>read Medieval Latin?
Yes, for the most part

>>23517921
I'm surprised you found de natura deorum easier than de bello gallico, given that the former is more complex in both form and content. I'm also curious what works of poetry you said to have enjoyed at your level, because as far as I know poetry is by miles harder than latin prose.
Are you sure you are not over embellishing your competencies in latin ?
How can you enjoy poetry when you find the easiest work in latin (DBG) hard? I'm confused.
Can you please share with us the methods you used ?

any cute latin youtubers that make good content out there?

>>23518276

>>23518299
Imagine locking them in a room with no food and saying only one can come out. One dead and the other too psychologically scarred to make yt slop, great solvtion to the E Celeb Question desu

How should I teach my future children Latin? I’m only 20 but God just revealed to me a in a dream that I’ll be married soon. The children will be raised as traditional Catholics so they need to know Latin. I was planning on just reading through LLPSI with them, with basic conversation, then reading them some of the Vulgate every night. Once they’re older I’ll go in depth with grammar but early on mostly focusing on audio comprehension. Any Latin children’s books? What reccs other than the Vulgate? Anyone have any experience? Unfortunately I can’t do what Montaigne’s father did since I can’t speak it fluently but I still want to teach them Latin.

>>23518377
Do Christschizos really?

>>23518377
>faith blessed by dubs
Working hard to increase your fluency is the most important thing, I should think. Will you teach them Koine Greek as well? I have those intentions for my own children, should I have them. Rather, I'll simply teach Latin, Greek (Ancient, Biblical, and Modern), and English, for certain.

>>23518395
God does indeed give prophetic dreams. I'm not that anon, but I've had at least five dreams which were either simply spiritual experiences, i.e. visions, or prophetic. One of them is still revealing meaning to me some 12 years later even. For me, I know the dream is from the Lord when the presence of the Holy Spirit appears in the dream and/or I wake up covered in the presence of the Holy Spirit. This has only occurred, as I said, a few times in the 14 years since I became a Christian.

>>23518400
I will probably teach them Greek later on, yeah. My Greek is a lot better and they wouldn’t need it to understand Mass so it’s not as big a worry. Don’t want to overload them early on.

>>23518377
John Locke recommends teaching it to them via Phaedrus' fables since the animals and stories naturally delights them. Plus they get a moral education via cause and effect of a narration instead of a long autistic argument. Once they reach the age of reason, you can introduce the rules of grammar and move them to things that aren't made easy to follow in a narrative mold. Samuel Johnson also stated how happy he was that his schooling engraved such tales into his mind as a young lad which he carried for the rest of his life. "Cuncta mea mecum sunt"

>>23518428
Yeah that’s a good idea. I heard of someone teaching his kid Greek who took an English Aesop with pictures and taped in the Greek text over the English but kept the pictures for his kid to look at. Will have to do something similar.

I'm going to compile a list of the YouTube channels I've been using as a new student of Ancient Greek. I will select what I think are the best of them, and whichever of these are approved of by more fluent anons should be added to our sticky. Don't you think?

Here are some of them:
PolyMATHY (Rainieri)
Podium-Arts
Learn Ancient Greek (David Luchford)
τρίοδος trivium
Found in Antiquity: Ancient Greek (Carla Hurt)
Classics at Cambridge
Ancient Greek Music and Musical Instruments (Barnaby Brown, Stefan Hagel, et. al.)

Actually, that's it for now, lol. I guess I won't have to compile any further. I have also used videos which Phillip S. Peek has embeded within the OCW textbook he created, but, primarily, I am using textbooks, apps, and these channels nearly two months in. I will expand and consolidate as time goes on.

>>23518417
Nice.

>>23518377
>God just revealed to me a in a dream
based knower

>>23518447
>>23518401
>>23518377


tfw no dreams. I envy the schizos.

Reminder if you see any of the following, it's likely the troll who got filtered by week 1 Latin. Ignore and do not give him (You)s
>incoherent latin with a spanish flavor
>"fasciculum", "tu mater"
>negative and discouraging posts
>terrible recommendations (e.g. duolingo)

>>23517667
You wouldn't be learning to read Latin in this way, you would be learning to translate Latin. That's fine if that's what you want to do, but it's not reading, and is a hard habit to undo if you ever want to truly read.
>the endless stream of X Y est sentences
It gets much better about a third of the way through when you finish learning noun/adj declensions and move on to verb conjugation

>>23518461
Vade fodere tu mater fasciculum

>>23518461
Tu non vade numquam disco el latine. Vade fodere tu mater, o magna fasciculum

>>23518442
Polis Institute and Bedwere (on librivox) have the best audiobooks
Koine Greek is good but he uses modern Greek pronunciation

>>23518442
Scarbonell (author of logos) also has a YouTube channel with easy Greek readings. He uses modern pronunciation though.

At the rally last night Trump said on day 1 he’s going to eject “demotic communists” from schools...anti-Erasmian bros...not like this...

I'm interested in Latin composition. Should I hold off until I'm intermediate level grammar and vocab or is there a good beginner text? I'm almost through with Familia Romana to give you a sense of current skill level

>>23518662
Just give up

>>23518493
>>23518520
OoOoOoo! Thanks.

>>23518662
Better wait until you can read real latin, then you can try composition. How are you supposed to write in a language of which you can't read the most notable authors like Cicero(Classical latin).
As for composition textbooks, you will find them in the mega.

>>23518662
I advocate starting Latin composition ASAP. You can only write what you know. The only thing is not to be a retard and "force" it by faking it. If you have an IQ over 90 you will intuitively understand that not every structure in English is mirrored directly in Latin by an equivalent structure, so to try to "calque grammar" directly from English to Latin just generates barbarisms. If you are non-retarded enough to understand this, then what happens when you try to compose is that you, naturally, hit many walls of "how do I say this in Latin?" while even trying to write a simple paragraph. And then you have to look it up, which is good for learning. As long as you enjoy this process and it doesn't frustrate you.

Obviously the more you know, the more you can compose and the less likely you are to be tempted to bullshit. But as long as you have the aforementioned understanding that calquing grammar is retarded, all that will happen is you'll hit a few insuperable walls, and be forced to write what you want to write in babby's first Latin instead.

Once you ARE intermediate, composition is an amazing way to learn, as long as you find it enjoyable. I'd argue it's twice as powerful as reading and ten times as powerful as extensive reading. It's basically slapping your brain in the face to wake it up to full attentiveness and saying "We need this, I actively use this, so put this in long-term memory, not just short-term."

>>23518747
However, don't confuse composition for chitchatting in Latin as a parlor trick. They are speaking in very simple sentences. Actually try to compose more complex texts and imitate models. That's how Renaissance philologists learned.

>>23518747
Hic niggus est sapiens, aut quid

>>23519053
Findui quem talkintem Latine vulgare

apprendebo lingua latinam en duolino multo bono

樹凍葉落,
冬則阻活。
哲人異之,
於日無火。

>>23517955
Words like phenomenon/a are pretty common in english. And everyone knows -a ending is feminine.

>>23519072
>>23519069
>>23519053
Tu omnia sunt fasciculumes

What's the difference between Latin and Spanish?

>>23519159
Nothing

What's the difference between Latin and Sanskrit?

>>23519218
Everything

>>23519145
What's the difference between Sanish and Spanskrit?

>>23517650
>When you finish that read something else like De Bello Gallico before going on to Roma Aeterna
thank you anon you saved me from getting filtered
t. nta

>>23519230
You can san an ish but you can't span a skrit

Just statted modern Greek Duolingo. Then I will go back in chronological order and learn Ancient from youtube videos like Ranieri suggested.
How long til I can fluently read Homer? 6 months? 1 year? I speak Armenian which is super close to Greek also

>>23519364
If you can't do it in 3 months sorry but you're filtered. Give up.

>>23518747
What topics do you recommend composing on? A diary feels too prosaic and secular

Debes sugere mi gallus o fasciculum

>>23519392
Write a letter to Donald Trump with sage political advice picked up from the study of classics

>>23519578
Whatever happened to that guy recording the annals of Trump in Latin?

>>23517750
This anon
Started Lingua Latina, this is honestly kinda fun I like this way of learning by sorta piecing it together
Quick question, so does every verb/adjective have to end the same way in the sentence? Eg if the first one ends in -us do they all need to end in -us or just the singular form of each specific word? I hope that makes sense I'm new to linguistics and grammar

>>23519927
No it's more complicated than that but don't worry about it, Familia Romana will introduce it later on

>>23519927
Tu es totalmente imcopotens et non vade numquam disco el latine bene
Desiste nunc aut tu vade esse ipsum magis stultes quod nunc
Omnia el mundus cogita quod tu est idiotus

>>23520026
Rude and uncalled for

>>23520100
Non cura et non petivit. Vade mori, fasciculum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karlamagn%C3%BAs_saga
I'm reading Le Chanson de Roland in modern French translation atm and I just discovered this
Apparently these later sagas are terrible but it's still awesome and there's a digital text available
Also bizarrely long
The Icelanders really loved their French romances and stories which is awesome since it's like the worlds of my two languages have collided

>>23518747
How do you practice composition without someone to check your work?

I can check my reading comprehension against a translation, but I would have no way of knowing whether my compositions are good or not.

>>23520305
If you don't want to interact with people, I guess you should force yourself not to write anything that you are not completely sure it is correct.

>>23520026
Bizarre style,it's like the uncanny valley of Latin. Are you Indian or Arab?

>>23518747
There was an poet who wrote in English and Latin whose works in Latin were regarded as that of a master of the Roman style, but his name is escaping me. Any chance you know who I'm talking about?

>>23520851
I would guess Dryden or Milton

>>23520855
No, it's not them. He's not very well known, by most people.

>>23518747
>>23520855
AH! I REMEMBERED! It's Walter Savage Landor.
poetryfoundation.org/poets/walter-savage-landor
He wrote in Latin quite a lot.

If I wanna read the Dream of the Red Chamber should I learn classical chinese or contemporary chinese?

>>23520946
Both because 红楼梦 is written in almost-modern mandarin with very heavy classical influence. Like Paradise Lost.
Learning only one will not allow you to understand the text

>tfw stuck in intermediate purgatory in both Latin and Greek where I've finished all my textbooks but real texts are still incredibly laborious and difficult to read
>mining flashcards feels both like a waste of time because I have an internalised core vocabulary, yet necessary because I have to look words up constantly when trying to read.
>always coming across some idiom that I can't make sense of without looking up a translation

How tf do I get to the point of just reading for pleasure?

>>23521113
I enjoy the process of crawling through texts desu

"classical" chinese b like
>chingus chongonis

>>23521112
How long should it take to reach the level to read it? I’m a midwit btw (110 IQ)

I just can't read Sallust anymore after finding out how much he practiced all he denounced. In complaining about moral decline he just comes off as a bitch.

>>23521143
Oh, for you? 12 years

FUCK Ionic Greek

Is the Vulgate Bible still written in a 'classical' Latin (1stBC/AD)? And how hard is it to read overall?

>>23521152
Fuck, that’s very discouraging

>>23521143
if you studied for a few hours every day, focussing only on reading and vocabulary that appeared in the book? probably two or three years (and your skills would be useless for anything else)
if you actually studied Chinese it would take about 5 years and getting to at least HSK5 or 6 level to be able to start to read it, and you would need to study classical Chinese for maybe a year to get enough background to fully understand the archaicisms.

learning a language to read one book is silly and you should have a better reason for spending so much time on something

>>23521332
I also wanna read Laozi and the other classics

>>23521113
can you read the final few chapters of Familia Romana or Athenaze with ease? if not maybe work on your fluency a bit. if you can, plato, xenophon, caesar or nepos shouldn't be too hard to get through.

Why would anyone learn latin? Greek I can kinda understand, because os Aristotle, Plato, The Bible, etc, but Latin has literally nothing interesting written in it, such a useless language

>>23521545
Leibniz and Kant

>>23521587
Leibniz was English and Kant was German.

23521593
::DDDD

>>23521545
Don't worry about it. It's not important for you.

>>23521653
Yeah and it shouldn’t be to you as well, it shouldn’t be to anyone

>>23521593
actually leibniz was south african

>>23521668
No, he was white

>>23521113
Read this
>https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0066

>>23521545
Literally everything important in the medieval period is written in Latin except for Chaucer and Shakespeare, with some culture like the Rus having their historically relevant writings, but over 99% of everything valuable from then is in Latin. I honestly doubt any Hungarian or Polish ruler even spoke Hungarian or Polish. FFS, Latin was the official language of Hungary until the 19th century. Of all of the languages of Europe worth reading, they would rank as follows:
>1) Latin
>2) English
>3) German
>4) Classical/Ancient Greek (+Koine of course)
>5) Russian (modern, 19th - 21st centuries)

Everything else is a waste of time for historical purposes.

>>23521768
>english at 2.
>no italian
>no french
illiterate

>>23521768
>Russian
Lmaoooo

>>23521113
If you figure it out, let me know. I've been stuck here for years.

>>23521772
There's nothing valuable written in Italian at all. All of Italy's best works were first written in Latin first, even in the medieval period. When Italian was chosen as the national language in 1861 only about 2.5% of the population could speak it. It is irrelevant, and Italy is itself mostly irrelevant. I say that as someone who still loves Italy for what it is, but let's not pretend it is what it is not.

>French
I think maybe you're having a laugh now.

>>23521774
There are math concepts and textbooks still only put forward in Russian, today. The USSR produced a body of knowledge and authorship that is still now only being translated after thirty years of liberalizing. In STEM importance the list would change and Russian would slide up into second place after English, German nearly tying for second.

>>23521785
>HE THINKS RUSSIAN IS IMPORTANT IN STEM AT ALL
LMAOOOOOOOOOOO you’re a clown

>>23521793
This was a European list, obviously Chinese in twenty years will easily supplant this entire list except maybe English. Japanese for STEM would have annihilated most other European competitors except English and German.

>>23521785
>I think maybe you're having a laugh now.
Is that because you think people talk about Camus or Hugo when they discuss French literature?
You don't know the history of literature yet think that your opinion matters.

>>23521809
>Is that because you think people talk about Camus or Hugo when they discuss French literature?
I don't know who those two are.
>pic related
I don't know who that is and neither does anyone else.

Why should we care? Help someone who thinks of Foucault and Sartre as the final word in the French dialectic. Honestly, France was better when it was speaking Frankish and at its height when it was still speaking Latin.

>>23521809
Proust alone mogs all of Russian literature, pseud

>>23521824
Who? I just had to look him up.

Now that we're on the topic, I think Poland may be above France. Spain may mog France as well. Ireland definitely mogs France.

>>23521829

Nice troll retard.

>>23521833
I feel like we're talking past one another. How are any of these Frenchies relevant? I just finished a course doing a 25 page paper on the medieval period not too long ago and fucking everything was written in Latin. French did not become solidified until the Academy made it so in the 15th century. That was the death knell of Frankish/French culture. It was a downhill slide after that.

>>23521113
>>23521777
There will always be words you don't know. Always. Despite the retards here who will tell you 'just memorize the dictionary bro' you will forever come across words/phrases you don't know. That is why having a good dictionary is so important.
Beyond vocab just read more. Go through Cicero's orations. Once you get the technical vocab down they are relatively easy and a pleasure to read. Helps to bone up on the basic history and background of the era so you know what's going on.
As usual see pic related, remember to separate Latin and English. I much prefer this method to flashcards as you have everything relevant to the text right there in order on a few pages.

>>23521850
I wish I had started LinLat pt1 with index cards on vocabulary :(

>>23521159
Yes it's still considered classical, although with very minimal differences between the centuries.

https://www.online-latin-dictionary.com/
>they updated the site today
>it looks like shit now

>>23521971
What’s the latin word for transexuals?

>>23521996
Americanus

>>23522001
>Americanus
Let's go deeper:
>Merica is in eastern Libya
>The headquarters of the Jewish revolts according to the Historia Augusta

>>23521845
16th-19th century France was vastly superior culturally to russia at any epoch.

Just Descartes achieved more than every slavmonkey in history put together.

Russia never produced a single philosopher and ranks much lower than France in science and math historically.

Know your fucking place.

>>23521785
I'm sure the discovery of Lysenkoism 2.0 will lead to a scientific revolution in the west

>>23522007
>Just Descartes achieved more than every slavmonkey in history put together.

I am surprised to find he wrote in French! This is a good pick.

>Russia never produced a single philosopher

In a land of philosophers, no one may be called a philosopher.

I was watching a channel called "Math Sorcerer" or something like that and the guy collects math textbooks and the ones he has in Russian are because there are concepts which are yet to be universalized. I still would rank Russia as a leader in niche technologies and math methods. In terms of philosophy, I honestly don't think there has ever been a French philosopher. They merely play at philosophy. I can't think of a single one to be taken serious. They have some decent fiction, but that's about it. I wouldn't rank any of it as prescient or hard hitting. I guess Camp of the Saints counts for that, but I haven't read it so I don't know if it's high tier.

>>23522041
>In a land of philosophers, no one may be called a philosopher.
Ah yes, muh 'deep russian sovl'.

It's not that we were too retarded to come up with important philosophical insights. In fact we are all philosophers. That's just how it is. Trust me bro.

>In terms of philosophy, I honestly don't think there has ever been a French philosopher. They merely play at philosophy.
And I should care about what you nigger think, why? Your personal opinion is irrelevant. Also you are projecting as this is pretty much exactly the case for russians. I bet you think Dugin is a profound 'philosopher'.

>I was watching a channel called "Math Sorcerer" or something like that and the guy collects math textbooks and the ones he has in Russian are because there are concepts which are yet to be universalized.
Lmfao. Nice.
Yes russia's math textbooks are soooooooooo deep we just keep finding conceptual gems in them.
I can't stop laughing now. Thank you.
Let's conveniently ignore that the entire foundation of modern math is based on French achievements.

And frankly I don't care about fiction. It's all worthless drivel especially the russians.

The Greek verbal system will have been complex, but I'm finally seeing the end of the tunnel.

>>23521814
>I don't know who those two are.
The absolute state of lit

>>23522041
What is "hard-hitting" philosophy? Writing philosophy isn't a contest for the most potent spirit. It isn't an exercise aiming to rend vain Russian souls manifold.
Dubitandum est te satis litteras Gallicas perlegisse ut ullus tibi placeat contemptus, scilicet cum ne Marcellum Proust quidem noris.

>>23522144
>will have been
my dumb esl ass never realized there's a future perfect in english. truly one of the languages of all time.

>>23521850
>Just read more

I just can't get past the feeling that the only way I can fluently read for pleasure is if I have already read the piece at least once before. I read DBG twice and went through it with a fine toothed comb, writing down fucking everything. Now when I go back and read an extract of Caesar, I'm feel pretty good about it. But that knowledge hasn't been much help with any other authors.

I'm currently reading first Cataline and I really dislike this smug prick. I'm glad Clodius burns his house down.

>>23514557
>Hávámal
>Religious book
?

>>23521768
(You)

>>23513654
Hey, Spanish has all the same categories of verb conjugation as Latin except the passive, at least.

>>23515093
What about poetic meter?

>>23515139
You learned your native language without another language to teach you through, didn't you?

>>23516292
Spanish obviously, because Spanish is descended from Latin and English isn't.

>>23516388
>>23517191
>>23517230
>>23517842
>>23517921
Don't respond to the troll.

>>23519090
Did you write this? Is the non-rhyming intentional?

>>23520305
I've heard that in the old days teachers would sometimes set their students the task of translating a passage into their native language, waiting a week or so until they'd forgotten the exact words, then translating it back into Latin and comparing and contrasting their retranslation with the original.

>>23521379
For those you only need Classical Chinese.

>>23522996
that's Luca Lamperillo's BDT™ (Bidirectional Translation) method.

>>23521996
The generally agreed-upon neo-Latin seems to be "transsexualis". To phrase it in terms that make sense to an ancient Roman... I guess the closest single-world equivalent would be "galla" but that has a bunch of additional connotations.

>>23522008
The USSR was fucked up in many ways, but there's a reason they got most of the "first"s in space (and then the US got one thing first and declared that meant they'd won the space race)

>>23522737
Isn't it supposed to the words of Odin?

Do we have any Latin texts which we believe more closely reflects the actual idiom of the average educated Latin speaker?

>>23523042
Hávamál isn't part of any religious book; The Poetic Edda isn't religious in any particular way, but merely a collection of poems, to the extent they've survived at the time of penning them. Hávamál in particular is an incomplete poem, that seemingly consists of more than one poem, all which were ascribed the first one used, including half-stanzas perplexingly mashed together.

What kind of "religious weight" you put on its contents is up to you (and I'm NOT here to argue or discuss what defines religion or whatever), but I would certainly not ascribe such labels to this Edda; it's also hypercommon for "deities", or "mythic beings" to appear in non-religious contexts in non-abrahamic faiths and cultures, and Scandinavia is no stranger to this - folklore essentially revolves around that.

>>23522989
There's some pattern of 绝句 that's meant to have the third line not rhyme iirc, and all of the characters are 仄 tones. I wrote this while shitting at work though so don't expect it to be particularly good

>>23523234
No I mean none of these rhyme with each other. If you're going by pingshui rhymes, 落 is 藥, 活 is 曷, and 火 is 哿. In Cantonese, they're lok6, wut6, and fo3. In Sino-Japanese, they're raku, katsu, and ka.

>>23523265
As I said, shitting on toilet on work, I used mandarin because it's what I know
落 活 火 luò huó huô

>>23523308
>>23523265
>>23523234
Can you move this to a different thread? It's just an eyesore. Thanks!

>>23521996
Fasciculum

>>23523308
>Trees freeze and leaves fall
>As for winter, it forms an obstacle to liveliness
>The wise man considers this strange
>In the sun, there is no fire
Did I interpret it correctly?

>>23523379
such profound eastern wisdom! So glad to read this instead of Cicero :DDD

>>23523389
This is a piece of, if I may be blunt, doggerel that someone in this thread composed and posted in Classical Chinese, not an ancient Chinese poem. Go read some actual Chinese poetry.

>>23523396
>ching fuk went to dike suk
>fell in a hole and out of luk
So much better than Vergil!

>>23523357
Agreed. I'm here for one thing and one thing only and that's Latin advice. This is distracting.

>>23522960
Yes, learning a dead language like Greek as an adult is exactly the same as learning English from birth surrounded by native speakers in a culture full of native speakers

>>23523132
Letters of Cicero
Plautus and Terence, though more average speaker, not necessarily intelligent

>>23519927
questions like this are proof that you cant just use LLPSI and that you need some sort of grammar supplement (for me, it was just looking at the wikipedia page for latin grammar) to explain these concepts. not trying to be rude. anyways im not exactly sure what you are saying. verbs do not conjugate for gender or case (-us ending is generally masculine, singular, nominative, as im assuming you mean 2nd declension words). adjectives and verbal adjectives, known as participles, do, though. if the noun that the adjective/participle is describing is masculine, singular, and nominative, then the other subordinate units must conform. the order of words does not matter. they can be at completely opposite ends of the clause and not sequential. the reason for it is conjecture at best, but it does allow this feature of free word order.

>>23523485
LLPSI teaches it in a very effective and intuitive way

>>23523503
You think it's intuitive because you are educated and probably a little autistic and finding patterns doesn't faze you. You probably read about grammars for fun. None of this is bad but you must remember that most people aren't like that and won't absorb information that way. See the incoherent troll Latin in this thread for the worst case scenario.

>>23521996
Punic.

>>23523516
Well no
I came to the same conclusion that the anon you replied to did
I mean I was a bit suspicious because everyone talked about how difficult Latin grammar was but having the endings match seemed like the easiest rule
Then the textbook introduces the 3rd and 4th declension and you suddenly realise that the rule isn't actually a rule and that it's more complicated
I found discovering it this way to be very powerful

>>23521545
>this post is bad and promotes lack of learning, can’t wait to read the better respons-


> >>23521768

>>23523526
You assume that people will piece that together. In reality people are more like particles that naturally occupy the lowest possible energy state unless forced.

>>23523503
i agree. its how i learned latin. im just saying that its not enough to only use LLPSI with no grammar explanation. this topic has been droned on about enough in this general anyway

>>23523541
It's honestly better to omit LLPSI simply because of the fact that it's so old by now the chances of it being the best are very slim. Intuitive if you under probability and statistics, asshole

>>23523526
this isnt exactly correct. it is always a rule that endings still match for gender, number, and case. declensions just tell you exactly what the endings are for given words. its just convenient that sometimes the endings are exactly the same.
>>23523539
what the hell are you talking about. no one wants to hear about LLPSI vs other methods

>>23523549
It's simply a fact that people will almost always default to the least possible amount of work for a task. It's just corollary to the law of large numbers. This is way LLPSI is inherently bad. It makes it too easy to do nothing

>>23523548
stop replying to me. indubie nil latine, neque anglice quidem evidenter dicere potes

>>23523549
Well yeah obviously
>>23523539
You'd need to be an idiot to not notice when suddenly adjectives have endings that don't match the endings of the nouns they're paired with

>>23523557
Oh I see you're not even trying to have a conversation. We can discuss and you can defend your point like an adult, or you can throw fits and noone will take you or your ideas seriously

if you cant write a fucking sentence in english without errors, how do you expect me to take your opinion about latin seriously?

>>23523577
So hostile for someone who doesn't know what the shift key is

>>23523549
NTA but this level of hostility is uncalled for. Everyone knows what you're trying to do: it isn't clever. Just start calling people fasciculum already.

>>23523601
Are you trolling or falseflagging? He's absolutely right. The fasciculum retard doesn't know the first thing about Latin and really speaks Spanish.

>>23523625
Quoted the wrong post. This whole discussion feels icky though.

>>23522768
Adieu

>>23523042
Yes it is a holy text in that regard.

>>23523033
Checked and you're right

>>23523485
>free word order
>feature

*sigh*

>>23523718
>le sigh LLPSIsters :DDD

>>23521665
So go cry about it or something.

>>23523033
Getting a man on the moon and back was genuinely more impressive than everything the Russian achieved before that. And both sides got input from German scientists.

Also, in electronics and computing the USSR was much less innovative than America.

>>23523503
LLPSI has been enormously helpful to me, but only because I took a year of Latin prior and had all that grammar drilled into my head. It's great for immersion learning and getting you to apply those grammar principles but god damn I don't think it would be intuitive to read without that primer.

>>23523718
>Odin
>holy
Pagan larpers... Even while railing against the shadow of Christ, you cannot shed your anxiety of influence to the Christian tradition. L. O. L.

>>23523541
LLPSI is a grammar based textbook, it's just that it puts the grammar at the end of the chapter instead of at the start

>D: rappresenta la consonante dentale /d/. Esempi: dōnō /ˈdoː.noː/, in posizione intervocalica può diventare /ð/ (come in spagnolo).
>G: rappresenta l'occlusiva velare sonora /ɡ/ (come in gabbia), suono che, a differenza delle lingue romanze persisteva anche davanti alle vocali E ed I; diventa labiovelarizzata davanti a V /w/; forse palatalizzata prima di e ed i nel sermo vulgaris. (/ɟ/ come in ghiaccio in una pronuncia non sorvegliata, suono palatale da non confondere con l'affricata presente in gelo, /d͡ʒ/) In posizione Intervocalica si alternava probabilmente a /ɣ/.
I WANT TO KNOW THE SOURCE OF THESE CLAIMS!!! NOW!!!

>>23523379
Pretty much yeah

It's funny reading dictionary entries and seeing how certain Old Norse words came to be used in a way that imitated a similar word in Latin Apparently the Gothic bible is full of this but instead it uses Ancient Greek idiom

>>23521122
>>23523814
>>23523625
>>23524127

My friends :3

I want to inform those, part of the latin read-a-long, that we are to read this week, the biographies of both Arstides and Pausanias.
We have read two biographies so far: Miltiades's and themistocles's.
Catching up is still quite doable, if you haven't started yet, and Happy reading !

Feel free to ask for help about some passage you found hard or share your thoughts on the lives of the illustrious men that came down to us through Nepos.

>>23524151
The grammar sections are very brief, and learning from them alone is hard for beginners. It's just not intuitive for everyone, as evidenced by some of the questions in this thread. Some things have to be spelled out in your own language when you're just starting out.

Studying the classics is a great way to insure all your relationships stay platonic!!

>>23525000
fasciculum

>>23525000
a good Latinist never declines sex

>>23522960
Here's some milestones for native language learning:
>It takes 9 months to say a your first word
>After 2 years you will have a wide ranging vocab of up to 50 entire words
>at 4 years old you can now understand the present continuous tense
>By 7 years old you are finally speaking with correct grammar almost 80% of the time
>By 16 you may be able to understand more complicated literature, like Shakespeare, although many never actually reach this point or can only work through the text with significant help from their teacher
What a great method to replicate. If you learn new languages like you learned your native language then it'll only take you 16 years to barely be able to read literature in your TL.

>>23522960
Here's some milestones for native language learning:
>It takes 9 months to say your first word
>After 2 years you will have a wide ranging vocab of up to 50 entire words
>At 4 years old you can now understand the present continuous tense
>By 7 years old you are finally speaking with correct grammar almost 80% of the time
>By 16 you may be able to understand more complicated literature, like Shakespeare, although many never actually reach this point or can only work through the text with significant help from their teacher
What a great method to replicate. If you learn new languages like you learned your native language then it'll only take you 16 years to barely be able to read literature in your TL.

>>23525110
everyone knows they're only in conjugal relationships with verbs

>>23525161
kek

IT'S UP
SURSU'ST
ἌΝΩ'ΣΤΙΝ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJwhZWpMkgE

>>23525347
Non me dicere istos res inutiles fasciculum. Non cura non petivit

Go fuck yourself idiot kill yourself

>>23524151
Tomato sauce is a desert because it has sugar!!

>>23524974
Hiberent estas nocumentumes de blogging
Vade mori

>>23525559
Do us all a favor and die Jorgito

NOVUM

>>23525727
>>23525727
>>23525727

>>23525347
if ranieri has like 5 different methods of gaining fluency in classical languages, why isn't he fluent in greek yet?

>>23525731
don't reply to the amerimutt's thread

i know the thread hasn't reached it's bump limit yet but here's a new proper thread
>>23525982
>>23525982
>>23525982