/lit/ - Literature

Why not just have a thread comparing and contrasting the two works and give your own opinion? Why do you need to psychoanalyze a dead man?

Tolkien was square ass honky, much like Asimov

>>23479429
Dune it the ultimate anti-trad chud fantasy

>>23479429
>A book about sand
>A book about stars

Of course he picked the book about stars.

>>23479429
Because Asimov was also spiritually jewish

>>23479429
Dune rejects the hero's journey, is very cynical toward human nature and is even more blatant in it's antitheism than Asimov's works (who would be considered a Reddit liberal by this board's standards). It makes sense he would dislike it.

>>23479429
Dune is an anarchist book, shows religion as a tool to manipulate people and is a subversion of hero's journey/chosen one trope. Of course it would cause anguish to Tolkien's christcucked mind.

>>23479685
Christ lives in your mind rent free, Tristan

Because foundation has the most kiked messaging I’ve ever come across in scifi. Granted I’ve never watched Star Trek, but still.

>>23479685
>Of course it would cause anguish to Tolkien's christcucked mind
You saying this will never change the fact that Tolkien was 100 times happier with his life than you.

>>23480030
>implying Dune isn't kiked and cucked

>>23479429
had no idea, but I've always agreed about dune I never even finished it just thought it was kind of bad never got the reverence for it
I like foundation/asimov though
>>23480030
every autistic catholic loves star trek, i'm sure tolkien would have as well

>>23479429
who cares

Dune is terribly written and has an awful plot and characters, the more interesting question is why ANYBODY likes it

>>23479429
he just felt that way

>>23479553
Asimov was a homosexual Jew who died of AIDS. He spent most of his life working on mind control programs, of which science fiction was one arm. His son was the largest every distributor of CP arrested in America, with 6,000 video titles. He was released without trial by federal fixer Robert Mueller.

Tolkien was a professor of dead languages that survived the trenches and wrote a wholesome fantasy for his daughters.

These two men are not the same.

>>23481277
faulty blood transfusion

>>23481277
The guy grabbing female fans' boobs at scifi cons at every opportunit was gay?

>>23479429

I started Foundation and it seems like it’s the story about a vision to keep the core of the glory days of a civilization alive or at least to set up a more glorious return during a dark age where knowledge is being lost (dur, LOTR). Dune like everyone else in the comment section states, implies that a socially engineered groundwork like that is only a corrupting influence.

>>23481277
Your assessment of Azimov is due to his membership of the tribe, methinks.

>>23479429
>Why?

>Hated Herbert's Dune
anti white savior
>Liked Asimov's Foundation
white savior

that's the rub

>So, 'Dune' by Herbert—it's like diving headfirst into Arrakis politics and philosophical ponderings, almost like decoding Elvish. But let's be real, the writing feels a bit tangled up, like it could use a Hobbit's touch to simplify things. It's ambitious, sure, but I'd trade spice for a cozy tale from the Shire any day.

>>23479429
>Tolkien
How actually much did he influence the entire fiction genre and fantasy specifically? It's memed he created the latter but wasn't Conan the Barbarian far more influential than LOTR?

>>23480360
>"Christcuckery might be a delusional lie, but at least it makes you happy"
Imagine being so afraid of reality that you have to embrace a delusion just to be happy. True slave morality and fit only for the weak of spirit.

>>23484323
It's also true

>>23485343
BAP is a Zionist Communist Jew. All you demonic scum are getting a bit too uppity. Luckily, the anti-demonic sentiment is moving faster and you will be punished this century ;)

>>23479429
Dune is full of boring, wooden characters, goofy descriptions, and major plot holes.
Foundation was an attempt to build a saga in space.
Feeble, but an attempt.

>>23485343
The slave morality is paganism.
In European pagan societies 50%-60% of their own people were enslaved.

>>23485367
Friendly reminder that as each day passes your cult continues its decline into irrelevancy.

>>23485373
Christianity poached most of its mythology and traditions from pagan origins or from older religions. So basically it is concentrated and distilled slave morality.

>>23481277
>>23485362
You realize one of Tolkien's kids (the one who became a priest) was also a pedo, right?

>>23485423
>doesn't deny being a BAPfag
lol lmaooooo
You will remember this thread when the rope is around your neck.

>>23485514
>BAP
I am not a fan of any South Korean boy bands.

>>23485343
>I follow the academic community (church) that is funded by corporate lobbyists and government interests. They would never lie to me like religions (my parents) have!
Faith teaches moral principles on a basis of truth. The subjective morality of materialists only values the self.

>>23485370
Not looking to argue, I haven't read dune in a very long time, but what marjor plot holes are you thinking of ?

>>23480361
It is but only in a hippie dude lsd dude psyops way. Foundation literally praises a globohomo galaxy.

>>23486161
False. Aristotelian virtues can be discovered in reality using reason. Faith is the negation of truth because it forecloses any possibility to correct yourself to align with the truth. In other words, you have chosen to place your internal compass of faith above real truth. In short, your philosophy is weak and your spirit is lacking.

>>23479429
he said he "didn't like it very much" not that he hated it
and he didn't give any reasons as to why, so it's anyone's guess

>>23479650
>is very cynical toward human nature
how?
>and is even more blatant in it's antitheism
where is Dune anti-theistic?
just because in setting the witches sow religious superstition to manipulate the ignorant masses does not equal that the the book is anti-theistic or against spiritual matters

>>23487121
Well, at least you’re not a moral relativist. But Aristotelian virtues are still the chosen virtues of a social order - not based in a concept of objective truth. If the social order changed, if the values changed, then the methods of discernment/perspective/“logic” would change as well. Faith based morality is beyond the constraints of human values, and encourages us to give and sacrifice what we value for the good of others and the ultimate spiritual good of ourselves.

>>23486206
The most egregious one, in my opinion
Real Life
>Throughout history seemingly ordunary, everyday people have completely refused to compromise their morals in the face of coercion, torture, threat, even torture and murder of family members in their presence. From the Bronze Age to modern times we know, for a fact, that people can hold to their principles unto death.
Conceit of the novel
>Imperial Conditioning of medical professionals from the Suk Schoolis said to be so thorough, so complete, so total that Suk doctors are literally *incapable* of harming others. It is believed that any method that could remove the conditioning would kill the doctor. In 10,000 years NO ONE has ever been able to make a Suk doctor harm anyone. Ever.
The *entire plot of Dune* and how the Sardaukar and Harkonnens are able to ambush and wipe out an entire Great House is completely dependent upon Dr. Yueh, a legitimate Suk Doctor, murdering multiple innocent people in cold blood and taking down the shield generators, killing tens of thousands more.
What was it the Harkonnens did? What powerful technology or psionic discipline allowed them to do what NO ONE ELSE had *ever* been able to do in 10,000 years of trying?
They threatened his wife.
That's it.
Kidnapped his wife and threatened to torture her.
The first thing the bad guys on an episode of any TV show would do was the "incredible secret" of how to undermine the conditioning. Baron Harkonnen was terrified the Emperor might learn this and wipe out House Harkonnen for this 'secret knowledge'.
Its soooooo fucking lame.

>>23487121
This is totally contrary to at least Catholic systematic theology.

>>23487832
If you assume values descend from a divine being, then if his will changed, values would change, right?

In my view, values are rooting in the way consciousness interacts with reality, so in so far as certain things are perceived as "good" and others as "bad", there is an objective element to values since those categories of "good" and "bad" arise within the interaction of your consciousness and reality. When you reason the similarities between consciousnesses and reality across all people, there arises commonalities which form the basis on which you can build an objective morality with the view of maximizing "good" and minimizing "bad".

>>23488092
The Catholics are wrong.