/lit/ - Literature

>>23450495
The glory of God is a man fully alive

reject both
their diagnoses are incorrect and so are the treatments

>>23450495
>Nietzsche
>Not Reactive

>>23450495
Take the Wagner-pill, he synthesises both. In Siegfried is the Ubermensch, life-affirmation, without sinful conscience; in Parsifal is self-abnegation, to reach a higher affirmation. In both the central character is a youthful hero.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T11EGn5lheI

>Wagner alone saw beyond — beyond the vision of both Nietzsche and Shaw — to a new form, shadowy, as yet obscure, visible in outline only, but still a higher form: the mysterious shape of Parsifal. Here is the beginning of the will to power and the will to beauty in the mystical union which is all-achieving: the man comes who weeps because he has killed a swan rather than exults because he can kill a dragon, who holds the all-powerful spear on condition that he does not use it. Shaw should have understood that it is possible both to kill dragons and to weep over the death of swans — in fact he did, at least in adumbration.
- Oswald Mosley

>>23450498
Look, I have prayed and God has many times granted my wish, yet I have problems with the metaphysics of Christianity, why should I feel guilty for Adam for example or why should I always inflict suffering on my self by having bad conscience whilst I can use that time to be creative, to engage in life, not to think about future but here and now.
I’m not saying I want to do immoral stuff but creative stuff, sport, enjoying life as it is and not attaching it to an eternal life after it to give it meaning.

>>23450509
This is why you should convert to Wagnerian Christianity.

>As their first and weightiest exercise the Jesuits set the pupils who enter their school the task of imagining with all their might and main the pains of eternal damnation, and expedite it by the most ingenious devices. A Paris workman, on the contrary, after my threatening him with Hell because he had broken his word, replied: "O monsieur, l'enfer est sur la terre." Our great Schopenhauer was of the same opinion, and found our world of life quite strikingly depicted in Dante's "Inferno." In truth a man of insight might deem that our religious teachers would do better to first make plain our world and life with Christian pity to their scholars, and thus awake the youthful heart to love of the redeemer from this world, instead of making—as the Jesuits—the fear of a devil-hangman the fount of all true virtue.

>The musician’s eye lit up from within. He now cast his glance on the appearance which, illuminated by his inner light, communicated back to his inner self in a wonderful reflex. Now only the essence of things is speaking to him again, showing them to him in the tranquil light of beauty. Now he understands the forest, the brook, the meadow, the blue ether, the cheerful crowd, the loving couple, the song of the bird, the passing of the clouds, the roar of the storm, the magic of the blissfully moving quiet. All his vision and creativity is there permeated by this wonderful joy which only he has bestowed on music. Even a lament, so deeply peculiar to all music, is softened to a smile: the world regains the innocence of a child. ‘This day ye shall be with me in paradise’ – who has not heard this word of our Saviour calling him when he listened to the Pastoral Symphony?
>This power of shaping the incomprehensible (things never seen or experienced) in such a way that it becomes immediately intelligible is now enhanced. The pleasure of exercising this power becomes humour: all the pain of existence disappears in face of the immense delight of playing with humour. The world creator Brahma laughs at himself, recognising the illusion about himself; regained innocence plays jokingly with the sting of atoned guilt and the liberated conscience teases the torment it has endured.
>Never in the world has art produced anything as joyous as these symphonies in A major and F major, together with all the closely related compositions from the divine period of the Master’s complete deafness. The effect of this on the hearer is precisely this liberation from all guilt just as the after-effect is the feeling of a lost paradise, with which we return to the world of appearance. So these wonderful works preach remorse and repentance in the deepest sense of a divine revelation.

>>23450522
Which symphony is he talking about

>german bourgeois vomit
>jewish vomit

that's tough

>>23450568
Wagner talks about the Pastoral first, which is Beethoven’s 6th symphony. Then he says:

>Never in the world has art produced anything as joyous as these symphonies in A major and F major, together with all the closely related compositions from the divine period of the Master’s complete deafness.

Beethoven's 7th and 8th Symphonies are in A major and F major respectively, so they seem a pretty good bet.

It's easy to see why Wagner would like the 7th. It's very Dionysian, all ebullient energy. The 8th, not so much. It's less popular generally.

>>23450495
I want to add smth, God for me is not someone who wants you to torture yourself with guilt, he wants you to live, laugh, love. I can accept that God exists bc common sense says this universe has an intelligent designer, so no issue there, but if this God is benevolent which I think he really is, he would want me to enjoy the life he gave me as much as possible, what praise is better than to live your life to the fullest?

>>23450509
>why should I feel guilty for Adam for example or why should I always inflict suffering on my self by having bad conscience
You shouldn't. None of that is necessary for christianity. The bible doesn't tell christians to self-flagellate or live in a constant sense of guilt. Where on earth did you get that from?

>>23450495
>I cant chose which DEAD FAGGOT should dictate my whole life
LOL

>>23450509
How should I pray so that God grants my wishes???

>>23450495
Who says you have to choose?

>>23450495
What made you think Christianity is reactive, and that bad conscience and pity is what you get out of it? Christ died for the forgiveness of sins to enable the sanctification of man, and the New Testament lays out good practical principles. Don't let Nietzsche make up your image of Christ for you.

>>23450509
The guilt from original sin isn't the same kind of guilt, it's more of a situation that changed. You might not like that your parents can fuck up your life, but they can. If your mom is a heroin addict you will be when you are born. That's the kind of thing original sin is. It may be unpleasant but it does seem undeniable.

I'm not sure what you mean by inflicting suffering on yourself though, just get baptized/go to confession.

For the connection between the worldly acts/afterlife you seem to be in some weird space that isn't actual Christianity. There've always been tradespeople, people doing things in an artful manner. IDK how to say it but you seem to be almost totally ignorant of the metaphysics you claim to have problems with. The metaphysical backing of the glory of God is man fully alive is that God holds us in existence as the sorts of thing we are, such that a full expression of our powers/being makes God's goodness more manifest. Only by being a good fully manifest human being, can we properly show our gratitude and fidelity to God. The moral rules aren't "rules" but are guides for the proper use of our faculties such that we most properly "say yes" to our being.

The full "saying yes" to being as it makes itself present involves gratitude, and letting the thing manifest themselves, as things do that they manifest their history which you become involved in. You quite simply are refusing to "say yes" to your humanity by not being grateful to original sin, it's a part of our history/being. Under the same lines of "honor your father and mother" I would put this historical gratitude and fidelity to our patrimony, again Christian morality is fundamentally tied to the structure of the human being and the harmony that can be made manifest. When God says "honor your father and mother" it is not a command but pointer that our being requires us doing this if we should seek to "say yes" to it. Our dependence on God, our history, is a fundamental part of us willing existence in a positive way. I'd read nichomachean ethics and aristotle's primary works if you haven't.

As a weird aside I am Catholic, I don't think the others make sense with me. My attitude towards the Church is that of a being I encounter, not a propositional theoretical abstract view. I think that probably makes it much easier for me. If you are forced to read scripture and come up w/ something I dont think you could make it work.

>>23450495
If you're struggling to reconcile the spiritual teachings of Christ with the philosophical theories of a psychologist, you've misunderstood both.

>between a reactive and an active way of life
Porque no los dos?

>between bad conscience/pity and life-affirmation/self-becoming
Guilt was never the purpose of the teachings of Christ. The reason why he put so much emphasis on your efforts as an individual was specifically to facilitate your self-becoming. Jesus was teaching during a time when group identity and tribalism was becoming an increasingly untenable relationship between the individual and the world around them, and so he gave to the Jews and later to the Europeans the tools necessary to break free of the limitations of groupthink and self-actualize. The moral elements of his teachings were a caution that the power this gives to the individual must be used with care and taken very seriously; just because you have a God-given right to do something doesn't mean you should do it thoughtlessly. Hell, Nietzche's theory of self-actualization wouldn't have ever come about had it not been for Christianity germinating in the West for the previous millennium.

Maybe you're confused by Nietzche's declaration of the death of God. He wasn't wrong about that, and many of the things he predicted would happen as a consequence turned out to be true, but he was lamenting about how God's being excised from Western society due to the relentless pursuit of scientific materialism was creating untenable social problems. You can still resolve these problems within yourself by rediscovering God, but it will be difficult because you don't have the benefit of an institution like the Church to guide you anymore.

It's hard for me to give you specific advice, since God manifests differently in different peoples' lives, but hopefully I can comfort you by saying that your faith isn't baseless and it will help you weather the frightening times ahead as you pursue this path. Break a leg, anon.

>>23450507
Based and gesmptkunst pilled

>>23450495
>the Living God
or
>shizoid german incel
which way, /lit/bro?

False dichotomy.

Both were divine avatars of Dionysus.

>>23450495
If god exists, he didn't put you here to guilt trip everyday over a dead rabbi on a stick.

>>23450495


God is the highest active principle: supreme, and absolute, actuality; the "active way of life" to which you refer is nothing other than hubristic, frenetic schizopathy.

You ignore what Chrisianity is.

>>23450495


God is the highest active principle: supreme, and absolute, actuality; the "active way of life" to which you refer is nothing other than hubristic, frenetic schizopathy.

You ignore what Chrisianity is.

>>23450495


God is the highest active principle: supreme, and absolute, actuality; the "active way of life" to which you refer is nothing other than hubristic, frenetic schizopathy.

You ignore what Christianity is.

bump

>>23451199
So no one is gonna answer me?? I've waited for days now

>>23453006
You can pray all you want but you’ll never have sex

>>23453055
why

>>23451199
God doesn't like prayers that are self-seeking. The prayers with God and others in mind are the more efficacious ones that God will bestow His grace upon.

>>23453006
What you wish and what you deserve may be two very different things anon.

>>23453136
>>23453006
More to the point, what you wish and what you need may be two very different things.

Prayer isn't just wishing for things and hoping they happen. It's how you get in touch with what you really want, what you truly need, and how to acquire it. It's how you get in touch with your ideals and true desires. There is no one way to do it that's right, because God manifests differently for different people. But there is a prerequisite first step, and it's Truth.

>>23453006
read job

>>23450509
Look up Mormonism

>>23453367
Don't, it's a shitty anti-philosophy cult used to disguise a Frremasonry ripoff used to disguise an investment asset management firm.

>>23453006
It's very hard for me to explain, anon. All I can say is that when I ask God a question, I get an answer. Ask and ye shall receive.

>>23453006
god doesn't exist, look at christcuck pathetic attempts at grooming, sad and disgusting to look at

>>23450495
>between a reactive and an active way of life, between bad conscience/pity and life-affirmation/self-becoming.
You've clearly already made up your mind.

>>23453505
Doesn't matter if you FEEL bad about something if you believe it is the truth and WILL towards the truth, perhaps kicking and screaming

>>23450495
Read the Bible more seriously. You're caught in a false dichotomy born of the stupidity of atheism.

>>23453006
God's not a genie. What kind of wishes are we talking about?

>>23453575
Make me grow taller

>>23450585
>The 8th, not so much. It's less popular generally.
Wagner always maintained it was one of Beethoven's greatest works. The public doesn't 'get it'.

Look at how each of them ended up and ask yourself whose example you'd want to follow.
If you still have any Nietzschean impulse after that, you're either mentally ill or a teenager.

>>23450495
Ascend above to a point where you can appreciate them both in common, and not fall prey to their shared and respective errors. (Take the parmenides pill)

>>23450495
Christianity is all about life-affirmation and self-becoming. Nietzche's opposition to Christianity is more a result of the faithful degenerating into self-righteousness or bad conscience.
Most of the problems around Christianity are failures of the faithful to properly study it, and they instead treat it as a hollow way of signalling their righteousness.

>>23450509
>why should I always inflict suffering on my self by having bad conscience whilst I can use that time to be creative, to engage in life, not to think about future but here and now.
That's exactly what Christianity tells you to do. Jesus Christ died so we can live righteous and fulfilling lives rather than selfish and destructive ones.

>>23453525
I don't believe a man can rise from the dead, or change water into wine.

>>23450495

NEETzsche is an illiterate cretin.

>>23456153
Do you believe in skibidi

>>23450495
Nietzsche went fuckin nuts and Christ got killed by those he was trying to help.
Be yourself.

>>23457516
I don't

>>23457516
I believe in Skibidi Biden
https://youtu.be/KlJ5mxBJnzk

>>23457416
*hasn’t read a single word from Nietzsche

>>23450495
My biggest problem with Nietzsche is the ubermensch he describes is basically a massive nigger.
He also praises criminals as some kind of sacred person oppressed by the laws of man in Zarathustra.