/lit/ - Literature

>>23438042
Imagine the mass of American University students converting to Islam but Shia Islam instead
lmao

>>23438114

Iran is a Shiite country, retard.

>>23438114
>>23438136
whats the difference again

>>23438136
Sunni and Shia (Shiite) are different denominations.

https://the.ismaili/global/news/features/shia-and-sunni-understanding-different-muslim-interpretations

meant >>23438168 for >>23438151

>>23438168
>>23438172
yes whats the difference again
no im not clicking your link

>>23438209
kindly fuck off, then.

>>23438211
Then I'll leave you to your political slidethread. Happy samefagging!

>>23438209
Differing views on the Prophet's family. Shia's believe they had a special role to play after the Prophet's death and value them highly. Sunnis reject that they had any role to play and support the opponents of the Prophet's family.

>>23438042
waste of time
koran only good for burning

>>23438220
How is a succession crisis over a thousand years ago still relevant? Especially since it's not like anyone is out there being recognized as the caliph? No one gives a shit about medieval antipopes anymore.

>>23438042
Only if you're Arabic.
>Very curious: if one sought for "discrepancies of national taste," here surely were the most eminent instance of that! We also can read the Koran; our Translation of it, by Sale, is known to be a very fair one. I must say, it is as toilsome reading as I ever undertook. A wearisome confused jumble, crude, incondite; endless iterations, long-windedness, entanglement; most crude, incondite;—insupportable stupidity, in short! Nothing but a sense of duty could carry any European through the Koran. We read in it, as we might in the State-Paper Office, unreadable masses of lumber, that perhaps we may get some glimpses of a remarkable man. It is true we have it under disadvantages: the Arabs see more method in it than we. Mahomet's followers found the Koran lying all in fractions, as it had been written down at first promulgation; much of it, they say, on shoulder-blades of mutton, flung pell-mell into a chest: and they published it, without any discoverable order as to time or otherwise;—merely trying, as would seem, and this not very strictly, to put the longest chapters first. The real beginning of it, in that way, lies almost at the end: for the earliest portions were the shortest. Read in its historical sequence it perhaps would not be so bad. Much of it, too, they say, is rhythmic; a kind of wild chanting song, in the original. This may be a great point; much perhaps has been lost in the Translation here. Yet with every allowance, one feels it difficult to see how any mortal ever could consider this Koran as a Book written in Heaven, too good for the Earth; as a well-written book, or indeed as a book at all; and not a bewildered rhapsody; written, so far as writing goes, as badly as almost any book ever was! So much for national discrepancies, and the standard of taste.

>>23438393
Because they believe the Prophet's family were his political AND spiritual successors. They believe their political position was usurped, but they maintained their spiritual role. And as I mentioned, Sunnis give greater value to the opponents of the Prophet's family. As such, the two groups differ on religious beliefs, practices, narratives about the Prophet because of differences in who they rely on as sources.

I'll give you one example. Aisha is the most prolific narrator of hadith in the Sunni corpus. However, she rebelled against the Caliphate when Ali (Prophet's cousin and 1st Imam in Shiism) took power, and so Shiites reject narrations from her. You can imagine the differences that might arise when the most prolific and trusted narrator in one sect is completely rejected in another sect.

and tell us your favorite parts about it

>>23438393
It became the cover for a number of ethnic and political tensions that have arose through the years.

>>23438209
Absolutely! It's fantastic to delve into the rich tapestry of Islamic diversity, where people of various backgrounds come together under the banner of faith. One of the most beautiful aspects of Islam is its inclusivity and celebration of diversity. Whether Sunni or Shiite, Muslims come from all corners of the globe, encompassing a myriad of ethnicities, cultures, and skin tones.

In the context of race mixing, Islam teaches us the profound virtue of unity in diversity. The Prophet Muhammad himself emphasized the equality of all believers, regardless of their race or ethnicity, proclaiming in his final sermon: "All mankind is from Adam and Eve. An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab, nor does a non-Arab have any superiority over an Arab; a white has no superiority over a black, nor does a black have any superiority over a white; none have superiority over another except by piety and good action."

This profound message underscores the importance of embracing and celebrating our differences, recognizing that our strength lies in our unity. Islam uplifts the beauty of racial and cultural mingling, fostering a global community bound together by shared values of compassion, justice, and righteousness.

Furthermore, the virtue of Muslims is not merely confined to their religious practices but extends to their actions in society. True virtue lies in embodying the principles of kindness, empathy, and respect towards all beings, irrespective of their background. Muslims strive to be beacons of light, spreading love and understanding in a world often plagued by division and strife.

In essence, Islam teaches us to cherish our diversity, embrace our shared humanity, and strive for virtue in all aspects of our lives. By doing so, we contribute to building a more inclusive, harmonious world where the beauty of our differences is celebrated, and the bonds of brotherhood and sisterhood are strengthened.

>>23438727
>celebrate diversity
>want every different race to procreate with each other and generate all-similar mutts
contradiction spotted! uh oh!

I've read parts of it and it's fucking boring
>Allah is most merciful and most compassionate
>Did we not send Noah and Abraham and Moses? Yet they disbelieved and will be thrown into hellfire
>Say, [O Muhammad], that the deceivers and apostates will be thrown into the hellfire. Surely they will be thrown into the fire on the day of judgement.
Repeat ad infinitum

The only interesting parts are the descriptions of hell.

>>23438042
If your goal and intentions is to learn more about God and how mankind understands God, then Yes absolutely.
If its just to give the outward appearance of being ‘read’ and to seem as if you’re an intellectual than no.

Clarification: I personally believe ALL religions, even Satanism, to hold bits and pieces of the truth. God is by definition and character unknowable but God is able to be understood to some extent through sincere research, study and meditation of the world religions both past and present. Don’t read any religious book just to seem smart, read them with the goal to understand God

>>23438777
(Same anon)
Wooo look at them trips!
That’s God endorsed!

Listen to it instead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F8puRkwWWw&t=497s

>>23438393
Same way a succession crisis between Jesus and St. Peter would be very relevant to this day and spawn entire schisms. It's not some random mafioso antipopes from medieval times.

>>23438042
You're only getting meme answers, so I'll give you a serious answer. I haven't read the whole Quran yet, but from what I've seen so far, it's basically a condensed form of the Bible with a few extra-Biblical traditions and very few original ideas. By design, the Quran goes out of its way to appeal to pre-existing religious beliefs as part of its theme of Islam being an ancient religion revealed to all nations throughout history. Something that you notice immediately is that it's VERY repetitive. Here's 70% of the Quran:
>There's only 1 god
>the disbelievers are constantly conspiring against the believers
>God will send all the disbelievers to Hell on Judgement Day
Most of the other 30% are the Bible stuff and Sharia. If you're thinking about converting to Islam, then obviously read the book, but even if you aren't, it's still worthwhile to see what 1,000,000,000 consider to be the word of God. That being said, you should probably read the Bible first, since the Quran kind of glazes over some of the fine details.

>>23438042
>not the nahj al balagha
is this dude a larper?

>>23438209
Shia here. Difference is that Sunnis believe Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) did not appoint a successor, and gave no instructions for how to appoint a successor. Immediately after the Prophet died (before his burial even), some companions of Prophet go off to start a "democratic election", called saqifa. I put it in quotes because only a very small percent of muslims were there, and not even the og ones. They immediately decide first it'll be Abu Bakr, then Umar as caliphs.

Shias believe, as it says in the Quran, that Allah only intends to keep the causes of sin away from the ahl-al bayt (people of the house of Prophet) (https://quran.com/en/al-ahzab/33).). This means they can't sin, they are infallible. We choose to learn the sunnah (traditions) of Prophet Mohammed through his family, who won't be able to misguide us on purpose or on accident. We believe from his family, there are 12 imams/caliphs, starting with his son in law/cousin Imam Ali, and ending with his 12th descendant Mehdi.

Many if not all of the evidences for Shia beliefs are in Quran, and in Sunni narration books (they will obviously exist in Shia narration books). For example the specific number of "12" for the 12 imams/caliphs. Though the Sunni political, worldly caliphs that they follow, number more than 12, Sunni scholars have tried throughout history to come up with an explanation of what this hadith (narration) means but they can't come up with an answer https://sunnah.com/abudawud:4279.. There's more evidences, differences, and topics of discussion that arise because of this question of succession, but that's the root of it all.

>>23440231
Why do you have your own Trinity when you know its Shirk to believe Allah would manifest himself as a Man(Ali)?

>>23440233
We do not believe that it is possible for Allah to become a man. We do not believe Imam Ali (as) is Allah. Astaghfirallah...I never even said that. Why do you believe we believe that?

>>23438042
No.
All of the Abrahamic traditions are garbage.
Stop viewing everything in a racialist lens.
When we approach reality honestly, looking into questions of life and death, then we see Buddhism is the closest to the truth.
Zoroaster, Muhammad, Moses and Jesus were all deluded icchantika. Buddha and Bodhidharma point the way to enlightenment and cultivation of wisdom. You don't need anything beyond your own mind for liberation.

>>23440398
>You don't need anything beyond your own mind for liberation.
lol relativism

>>23440398
>Buddhism
>literally just an heroing on a metaphysical level

>>23438209
The theological differences don't matter. The labels just make it easier for them to kill each other.

>>23438114
>Imagine the mass of American University students converting to Islam but Shia Islam instead
>lmao
Like hippies picking up Buddhism because they empathized with the monks who burned themselves to death in Vietnam. Then in a few decades, there will be some yoga-like relaxation and physical fitness classes you can take where you prostrate like Muslims.

Yur a sunni innit?

The only kinda-sorta appealing aspect of islam to westerners is the idea of legal polygamy, and even then like only one man out of twenty lives in such households even in the islamic world.

>>23438114
tbqh I'm not a Muslim but Shia instinctively feels like it's the "true" Islam if such a thing were to be decided on. It also has better aesthetics.

definitely

>>23440598
Yea Sunni narration books are filled with ridiculousness. To us Shia, that guy Abu Huraira is a famous liar. He was only around the Prophet for a year but fills these books with THOUSANDS of narrations. Meanwhile the family of the Prophet who were obviously raised by him and were around him 24/7, barely anything.

Islam needs it's Martin Luther, I hope we are close to a Muslim edition of 'on the Jews and their lies'. Fix the middle east, encourage all the Muslims to leave Europe and I might be able to visit London in peace again.

I have sympathies for Shia Muslims but the way they treated Lebanese, Armenian and Georgian Christians sour my view of them.

>>23438727
Thank you, chatGPT

>>23438727
This reads like it was written by some danger haired college student who hates Christianity.

>>23440595
What about it feels truer to you?

>>23441086
Muhammad literally declared Ali to be his successor

>>23441099
Yeah apart from sunnis who have mandatory interpretations of those events, anyone who looks at the history will say Shias were more legitimate

>>23438042
Other books feel insignificant after having read Quran

>>23440233
>believe Allah would manifest himself as a Man(Ali)?
Ali is better than Allah. A lesser being isn't going to manifest in a greater one

>>23441638
Fuck off lmao you're not me the shia guy.

>>23438042
My advice to Muslims is duck.

>>23440792
>Lebanese, Armenian, [Assyrians], and Georgian Christians
They frequently acted as a fifth column against Iranians, taking advantage of their hospitality and helping Westerners plunder the country. If anything, Iran was too kind to them. Their endless self-victimization and feigning innocence are also characteristic of Semites.
Even when Iran was Zoroastrian, they were still giving problems to the country.
Iran had a significant problem with traitorous minorities much like Europe does now.

>>23442040
If you can't manage the people you conquered to build your empire, maybe you shouldn't be ruling a pluralistic empire.

Also Georgians and Armenians are not Semites, and their behaviour is simply that of any unwilling subject, not some special semitic activity.

>>23442224
You're quite a sanctimonious faggot, you know that?
>If you can't manage the people you conquered to build your empire, maybe you shouldn't be ruling a pluralistic empire.
Compared to you arrogant haughty Euros and Turks, Iranians treated their minorities with love and care.
Anyways, it is our internal affairs. Stfu. Sick and tired of you people with how you use pretexts of human rights violations to cause more damage in your interventions.
>Also Georgians and Armenians are not Semites
Read about what Russians have to say about them. I actually agree with Russian stereotypes of them. Even Mizrahi can be more honorable than them, which is saying a lot.
Anyways, I don't like Western Europeans and Americans at all. Direct your attention elsewhere, please.

>>23438042
That depends, have you read the Bible or any other work of religious literature? If not, then the Quran is definitely for you. If you have, then you'll find the Quran a complete mess of garbage that refutes itself.

>>23442238
Muh NATO warhawk neoliberalism. You Farsis really have a one track mind huh.

Also, if a vague allusion to what the Russians think is your version of a retort, I'll accept your concession.

>>23442259
>Muh NATO warhawk neoliberalism
It's real and your low IQ memespeak doesn't change reality.
>Also, if a vague allusion to what the Russians think is your version of a retort, I'll accept your concession.
Kys. I'm not justifying Iran's past imperialism in Georgia, which was indeed bad, but I'm saying to contextualize it according to what Turks and even Euros did. Iranians, in comparison, were less than damaging than those 2. In fact, Ottomans were the most brutal out of the three, hence why Europe made alliances with Europe to fight Ottomans. Now Turkey is a part of NATO, things change according to realpolitik and not your low IQ narrative of "muh poor oppressed Christians".
Anyways, kys, shill. Iran's future is with China and not the West. I am a Sinophile and Europhobe. Pic related was a mistake. Modern America and Europe are dangers to both themselves and the world. I hope Iran and the West never get on good terms with or without Islam.

>>23442295
Ignore typos.
>made alliances with Europe
with Iran*

>>23442295
Lmao what a non-response. I said that Georgians and Armenians were not Semites, and were resisting because they resented foreign rule, and you chimped out and went on a diatribe about Europe and China and the Ottomans, and your shitty perspective of world politics, before eventually admitting that perhaps the Georgians were resisting foreign rule because it wasn't as "loving and caring" as you initially stated. You've got the intellectual prowess of a preteen.

>>23442338
>Georgians and Armenians were not Semites
Armenians and Georgians both behave like Semites. Stalin was a Georgian after all. Armenians have a bad reputation for behaving like nepotistic gangsters. They also have more Levantine admixture than Iranians. Iranians are mostly Iran Neolithic which is somewhat "jeet" like. Better an pseudo Indian than a Semite or Euroshit Faustian demon.
>before eventually admitting that perhaps the Georgians were resisting foreign rule because it wasn't as "loving and caring" as you initially stated
I was speaking relatively. Look at the Circassian genocide Russians did.
Europe, Ottomans, Iranians, etc. all engage in imperialism, but I am saying Iran was relatively more benign (probably due to weaker power projection). Nader Shah was probably the worst in terms of being genocidal but that happened later.
>You've got the intellectual prowess of a preteen.
There is no such thing as an intellectual Christcuck or Abrahamist. I don't take you people seriously.

>>23442371
Lmao again. I merely explained why the Caucasians would be revolting against a foreign occupier (which you have already admitted was bad and not worth justifying) and you continue with endless whataboutisms of other empires that also oppressed the Caucasians and were similarly resisted. You do see the fallacy here right? If not I'm just going to stop replying because there's no hope for you.
Also not an adherent to any Abrahamic faith, not sure where you got that idea, but your baseless ad hominem betrays your pubescence.

>>23442401
My point is that there is no justification in vilifying and condemning Iranians when others were far worse, faggot. It would make sense to become a misanthrope rather than scapegoat others.
Also, Iran is the number 1 stabilizer in the region, presently, when compared to America and Israel. This does not mean Iran is good. I am speaking relatively.
>Also not an adherent to any Abrahamic faith, not sure where you got that idea,
Christcucks are no better than Mudslimes. Why should it matter if Christcucks were oppressed more than Mudslimes?

>>23442401
Why are you engaging with a well known schizo dumbass

>>23440603
have you considered that you're both obsessed with complete bullshit

>>23443310
I have considered it. You can guess what my conclusion was.

>>23443310
All of Abrahamism is garbage. Ancient Central Asian cultures and empires like the Kushan empire were far more interesting than the accursed Levant and Arabia. If I had my way, I would take over Iran and destroy every single last Christian, Jewish, and Muslim place of worship and force convert the entire world into either Buddhism or animist paganism.
Abrahamists are following a cult devised by extraterrestrials or occult beings whose ultimate goal is to trap us in virtual realms and feed on our negative emotions. The game Hellnight / Dark Messiah hints at that. All religious Messianism is, in fact, a social engineering experiment to mechanize man and make him a slave to be harvested. This is why Abrahamists do not sound like organic beings of Earth when they babble their schizo nonsense. They are just regurgitating what the beings underground want to achieve.
>>23443275
You're the schizo, not me. You most likely have shit taste in literature and film compared to me. I'm the greatest intellectual on this shithole of a site.

Good lord I wish nothing more than every Christian, Jew and Muslim to be burned mercilessly along with their piece of garbage holy land. Imagine if there were a strong leader to carry out such a mission. Shove every one of these disgusting retard niggers in Israel and proceed to drop nukes. The world is instantly fixed.

>>23441086
The ethos of Muhammad is one of divinely-inspired kingship. Muhammad was a dynastic warlord. A dynastic warlord should have direct succession, not "oh yeah well he's gone so let's all get together and maybe set up a provisional committee to delegate powers etc etc"

>>23441638
top tier banter lmao

>>23442040
>fifth column against Iranians
Other way around, Hezbollah was literally founded as a proxy of Iran during the Lebanese Civil War.

If muslims dislike jews so much why are they their best, most numerous and most faithful servants in western societies? I thought you guys didn't like each other? Why are you so determined to act like their slaves, then?

>>23443656
Yet Hezbollah fought for the territorial integrity of Lebanon and Christians (backed by Jews) fought to split the country and even fought as the foot soldiers of the foreign occupation

>>23438042
No.

>>23443793
That's wrong. Hezbollah emerged because the lebanese shia were dregs up until their emergence which was prompted by them having enough and forming their own militias during the civil war.

>>23443793
>the territorial integrity of Lebanon
Which is why Lebanon and its Catholics (the Phoenicians who were there for 4500 years) got assraped by Palestinians, Syrians and Marxists after the Shiites got their way?

>>23438042
i think you should read every piece of serious literature that you can stand to read.

>>23443670
Most immigrants are nafris and pakis.

It's only Arabs that really hate jews

>>23438042
My life is much more better after converting, I can’t emphasise it enough.
You can try and read a bit about islam and see if it betters your life too.
Good luck anon

>>23438727
The way GPT is programmed to dance away from any perceived negativity makes me feel physically sick.

>>23440398
>Stop viewing everything in a racialist lens.
No.

>>23444190
Kys, autistic soulless dysgenic Westernshit.

>>23440598
Gem

>>23442295
NTA, but what a fucking retard. The ottomans had trouble conquering shitholes in the balkans. The moment they made contact with the big boys, they started declining. Also, austrians were and still are softboys.

>>23444987
Cry harder, faggot.

>>23445750
When you die and eat shit in hell, know there will be great celebration. Kys.
The fact you WILL die and suffer brings me great joy.

>>23440464
wtf's wrong with that bloke's nipples?