/lit/ - Literature

I guess I'll repeat the suggestion that we do a weekly composition event where we write short (1-5 lines) epigrams in one of the languages. Based on the relatively narrow interest, probably just do whatever language you study, and if it's one of the eastern ones, give some explanation to help the rest understand it.

>>23422976
as prose composition isn't widely taught, I'm asking if you have any recommendations on where to start. I'm down for the event but don't have much experience writing in a classical lang.

>>23422990
I think some textbooks and my friends, but my irl friends and I really just try fitting our ideas into the language. We usually do lines of poetry so we often emulate Homer/Vergil.

>>23422976
will it be themed? e.g on day X write a short epigram about Y

>>23423004
Sounds like a good idea.

You were beaten to the punch with the thread and pruned for a reason. I suggest you take it like a man and do better next time.

>>23422990
This is a good one for Greek. The older North & Hillard book can be found on the internet archive along with the translations.

>>23422976
I can barely read. Composition is well beyond my skills. I don't even know what an epigram is.

I don't think the usual user of clg is able to compose epigrams. Maybe one of two, but the majority here is just stsrting.

>>23423222
They don't have to be good, it's good practice.

Go fuck yourself idiot

What's the Wheelock's of Hebrew?

>>23423328
Soap

>>23423328
Maybe the Thomas Lambdin? Hebrew prose tends to be simple, just really watching the shifts in what a verb's doing when it's attached to a connective. Poetry on the other hand tends to be a little more of a pain in the ass.

>>23423328
Give me back my foreskin

>>23423366
and from the last thread Hackett is another option.

>>23423222
well giving it a try won't hurt, more experienced anons can give tips, if it's a themed challenge you have more room to work with compared to e.g english to target translation challenges like those on /lang/, sometimes I pop there to do them in Greek but I often give up because of how specific they are and get more annoyed than anything

>>23422976
I like this idea. What would we write about? While composition is tough, it's really helpful to actually understanding how the language works

>>23423328
I'm the Hacket-lover, and I'll shill for her until the day that I die. Basic Introduction to Biblical Hebrew best book

What Latin should I read next? I usually don't go for prose, I tend to prefer poetic type stuff. I've done a bunch of Aeneid lately, I was thinking either Propertius or a Plautus play. Preferably something where I could get a physical copy, but if I have to use a computer, then I'll survive

>>23423849
I'm thinking we pick a topic, maybe randomly from suggestions, and then do it over the course of a day. Let's say we do it Sundays or Fridays and have the day to compose something. Then everyone else will give any comments as appropriate. If you want to submit multiple things it's not like anyone can stop you.

Thought I was decent in Latin but I just started reading Caesar and I might just give up. Can't even get past the first few pages without wanting to throw my laptop out the window.

>>23422945
Hey, OP, post with the trip in this thread once so it's on the record

I'll support your thread over the other if you accept that the meter was made up by kikes and krauts and Greek have always sounded the same. Deal?

>>23422976
Counter suggestion - the most important skill in a classical language is being able to read it not compose it, so any challenge should focus on TL to English translation. Maybe anons could pick a short text, poem, or extract they're interested in, translate it and explain it?

>>23424224
I mean, you should be reading/translating anyway so I don't see a big use for a "challenge" like this. Prose composition also strengthens reading comprehension.

>>23424199
Can you explain what you mean by this?

>>23424304
The Greek poetry was never ever meant to have a rhyme and there was no "long" vowels in any pure Indo-European language including Greek.
"Long" vowels are Semitic and were forced onto krauts with their artificial language, who then tried to force them on Greeks and Romans through their horrific "reconstructions", by their kike masters.

>>23424327
Nta, but:

1) Rhyme isn't the same as metre, and metre is absolutely present, because it's discussed in Plato, Aristotle, the comic poet Aristophanes, pretty much all of the Alexandrian scholars.

2) There absolutely are long vowels. Again, this is discussed in various dialogues in Plato and in the Alexandrian scholars.

>>23422976
Ha! You like to mock about "stupid frog poster," this, "troll," that, but I've only been studying for 26 days and you can count me in. I'm not scared. This is the natural work. Check it, clowns; I was doing this in my head at work today (modified on to suit my new audience):

εχυροί και φίλοι, βάρβαροι—
ακούστε με και χαίρεστε.
Θέως άνθρωπον άγει.
Θέος καλέει άνθρωπον.
και χρύσεις Δίος, τί αίει έποπτης άνθρωπον,
βίον δίδοσι. Θέος ποιέει βίον.

I don't know how to type all the marks on this keyboard yet, and I didn't wan to use the html site, so deal with it.

>>23424224
Lame. Do both. Input and output is essential to mastery.

>>23423979
Start with an easier author like Eutropius or Hyginus

>>23424327
What does any of this have to do with meter?

>>23424327
oh you're that guy. I guess the transition from the likely stress-based saturnian to the quantitative hexameter or hendecasyllabic, etc are all just collective delusions and that there is no difference between o/ω, ε/η at all.

Nolite respondere homunculo schizophrenico, quaeso.

>>23423855
Off-topic

>so butthurt about the other thread he makes his own
>nuked by jannies
>so butthurt he makes another

>>23424959
Just ban /clg/ at this point. Its over. Teteleftiken.

Dead thread. Dead people.

is it me or is it relatively harder to find decent material especially for amateurs to learn by heart meters other than the hexameter? we were mentioning in the previous thread how that one YT video is kinda good to internalize the meter, but any time I feel like getting into something other than the hexameter I find it kinda daunting, and I mean in particular for schemes quite different from the standard hexameter e.g the elegiac couplet is simple enough once you know the hexameter

>>23425155
Tyrtarion

>>23425155
>meter

>>23425155
I've been trying to understand meter on and off for years. Hexameters still escape me.

>>23425155
Appendix B of "The Student's Catullus" by Daniel H. Garrison, University of Oklahoma Press

Appendix B of "Horace: Epodes & Odes" also by Daniel H. Garrison, University of Oklahoma Press

Although they are written by the same person, the appendices are slightly different and more tailored for their specific topics of Catullus and Horace.

In the Horace Appendix, Garrison suggests "The Meters of Greek and Latin Poetry" by James Halporn, Martin Ostwald, and Thomas Rosenmeyer (1980) for a "fuller account of meter in general" - though I haven't read it myself.

You can find all three on library genesis. I would post them here but the appendices are just long enough where I can't be bothered to scann them

Also, as you get more comfortable with the sound of Latin, the different meters will become more natural. I suggest studying sections 9-11 of Allen & Greenough so you can more accurately predict which vowels are long and which are short.

>>23425206
uhm, not bad actually, listened to few, they still feel a bit "liberal" but I could see maybe digesting the meter by listening over and over again maybe with other passages recited over it
>>23425247
thx for the recs anon, I regret years ago not paying enough attention to vowel length when starting, trying to catch up and Virgil certainly helped

>>23424391
>>23424649
>>23424814
why even bother responding?

>>23425155
Every half-decent commentary explains the metre of the text

>>23425224
I feel you anon, I don't even know how it happened but it did, I never was able to appreciate poetry even in my own language but when you finally "hear" it it's worth it
>>23426158
yes but one thing is understanding it logically, another is to appreciate it, when you start even if you can scan the lines according to a certain set of rules it's not exactly fun or musical

>>23426177
personally, i found it helpful to write a few lines from a text i was reading on a piece of paper and broke down their metre. i reread them until i got a hang of the rhythm and after that just read a lot. it quickly started to feel more intuitive.
i've only done this with homer and drama though. haven't read much lyric yet.

>>23423855
Hebrew is medieval, Aramaic is classical.

>>23426177
I can apply the rules and scan lines, but that does nothing to help me hear or understand the meter. My brain just cannot register syllable length.

Bumping the real thread
>>23426264
Schizos out

>>23426536
You are historically illiterate.

>>23426352
Honestly, while bald man has his faults, it might be good to listen to him speak since he really exaggerates vowel length.
https://www.youtube.com/@ScorpioMartianus

>>23422976
>>23424392
And still no one even tried, but me. Pitiful. I expected at least a few of you to have the guts to show me up after I made such an obviously flailing attempt.

Where's your backbone and fighting spirit, you women!? You cowards! You dogs!

The West is dead, or else you're from somewhere else, and for that I would give thanks to God.

>>23426177
>>23426352
podium arts can help with the syllable length. unfortunately his readings of poems are quite prosaic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=345vhzHBimQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEp7AVotbCE

>>23422945
anons, should I look for a tutor if I want to learn Latin? or should I just try it on my own first

>>23427702
If you're asking this question you're not gonna make it

>>23427709
I don't know what either approach entails, that's why I'm asking

>>23427702
well trying doesn't hurt, especially given the resources you can find online, it's about your motivation and time and money you can put into it, a tutor would certainly make things easier, I think most of us here who aren't in uni learned by ourselves but see for yourself, try one of the main approaches e.g check the FAQ, see if it's something you find doable or enjoyable by yourself

>>23427728
will do, thanks!

>>23427702
You should absolutely try it yourself
If you want you can use LLPSI and also use the book titled ‘A companion to Familia Romana’ which is basically just a tutor in book form, if you’re unfamiliar with language learning

>>23427760
Btw these books are in the OP mega
Also anki is good

>>23427760
>>23427769
Don't listen. LLPSI is strictly for sub-70 IQ. Use Wheelocks if you're smart

I wonder if there's a particular reason why Plutarch calls Numa Νομᾶς, i.e why the circumflex on the last vowel

>>23427819
Lol the circumflex didn't exist until 1000 years after Plutarch what are you saying

For those doing composition, I guess now is as good a time as any: Let's have Agamemnon as our topic. Pick some aspect of his life, either pre-war, during the war, or his return and death, and write something short about it. Try to post your composition sometime today.

>>23428031
Agamemnon
Gags on men

Thread quality has been up lately. Keep it up!

>>23428031
OK I'll give it a go later today. But in Latin, because my Greek is μάλα κακόν

>>23428031
ὤναξ, πῶς γὰρ οὒ ἰδνόομαι; νῦν δείματι πάλλω
τὶς δ' ἄρ κλαιοίτ' οὒ δύσμορον Ἀτρεΐδην
ὤναξ, ὀκνῶ μὲν χρόα τ' αἷμα χέον τε ἰδέσθαι
τίσειεν δ' Αἴγισθος μυρία δάκρυ' ἐμοῦ

my first attempt at Elegiac couplets, feel free to point out where I may have messed up.

>>23428031
Μέλλων Ἀτρεΐδαο Ἀγαμέμνονος αἶσαν ἐνισπεῖν
οὐ δύναμαι περὶ ὦν οὗτος ἔπασχεν ἀνήρ
ἄλλο τι ἐνθυμεῖσθαι ὅσον τὴν αἶαν ἐκείνων
ὧν Καζαχοὶ τ' ὄνομ' εστ' εὔδοκιμον κατὰ γῆν

Tell me why you are studying a dead language instead of math.

>>23428997
why you are posting on 4channel instead of studying math?

>>23429020
I have a calculus book open beside me, whelp. I am taking two-minute breaks to laugh at my future McDonald's cashier's.

>>23428031
Dīc mihi Graecōrum prīnceps generōse et honeste:
Quis possit nātam fraude necāre suam?

>>23428772
>τίσειεν δ' Αἴγισθος μυρία δάκρυ' ἐμοῦ
I think this line doesn't scan (one extra syllable in the first half)

>>23428803
How do you scan Atreidao?

>>23429597
Ἀτ-ρε-ι-δᾱο (synizesis on the last two vowels)
it's like Πηληϊάδεω in the first line of the Iliad except I've kept the ᾱο without the metathesis ᾱο -> εω as in the latter

>>23428997
Teaching myself a language has much more tangible goals and a sense of progress. 'Studying math' is too vague and nebulous.

What sort of math? What would I do with it?

>>23428031
I started something for this, but then I got drunk for Memorial Day, so here's how far I got

וַיַּפֵּל רוַּח מִלִפְנֵי הַ֑שַּׂר וַיִּתְנַבֵּא נַבִיא כִּי יִשָּׁאֵר לֹא בַּת־הַשַּׂר בְּאֶרֶץ זֹאת׃ וַיָּכֶן עֵצִים לְעֹ֑לָה וַיִּקְרָא לְבַּתוֹ וַיֵּלֶךְ אֶל־שָׁם׃ וַיֵּבְן הַשַּׂר

>>23429826
Fuck off kike

>>23429443
damn it you're right. I'm too used to Hexameter. I guess it should be τίσαι δ' Αἴγισθος (the other aorist optative 3rd singular form, the phrase is based on the prayer of Chryses the priest in Iliad 1.

>>23429443
also thanks for pointing that out.

>>23428031
How demoralizing to realize that not only can I not compose Latin generally, but I don't even know enough about Agamemnon to try.

>>23428031
Which Agamemnon? There is a character named Agamemnon in Petronius. He and his coworker Menelaus are teachers who represent different aspects of the Roman education system.

He is at the infamous Trimalchio's feat though in Felini's film he is replaced with the pervert poet Eumolpo. He is written out due to being very bland.

>>23430044
If you want to learn a little, here's a performance of the Oresteia. The translation is a little loose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdv3vkECqXA

>>23430044
>>23430048
>son of Atreus
>king of Mycenae
>commander of the Achaean army against the Trojans
>sacrificed his daughter, Iphigenia, so that the Achaean army could get to Troy
>was a generally solid commander and warrior
>dick to Achilles, caused the whole rage of the Iliad
>came home to Mycenae with Cassandra in tow
>killed by his wife, Clytemnestra, for killing Iphigenia and also so that her new beau could become king
>avenged by his son,Orestes

Ἀηδὼν ἐπί τινος ὑψηλῆς δρυὸς καθημένη κατὰ τὸ σύνηθες ᾖδεν. Ἱέραξ δὲ αὐτὴν θεασάμενος, ὡς ἠπόρει τροφῆς, ἐπιπτὰς συνέλαβεν.

Luscinia in quādam altā quercū sedēns ut fierī solet canēbat. Accipiter eam vīsus, quum carēret cibō, dēvolāns comprehendit.

A nightingale sitting upon a high oak tree was singing as usual. A hawk having seen it swoops down and takes hold of it, since he was in lack of food.

>>23423979
What made you think you were decent? How long have you been studying? I believe you can pass this filter.

>>23428997
Why are you a pretentious midwit?

>>23428031
God damn, you're a fag and a snob. I literally just read Agamemnon, loved it, and was the first to even write something, but you're just too fucking lame to hang around.

>>23430852
Now say it in Latin.

Idk anything about Agamemnon so I'll just translate what >>23430187 wrote

夜鶯坐橡,如常歌也。
老鷹餓瞧,俯衝而抓。

>>23430914
Fuck off to your containment thread Chang

>>23430914
off-topic

>>23430852
What about that post made you so mad? It was pretty neutral and finally got people to actually compose something.

>>23431192
Not him
You come off as naive, pretentious and arrogant all at once. No one wants a school marm.
You exude the same vibe as the anon who made a trip and insisted only threads begun with said trip were true. Just unpleasant to be around.

>>23430914
Sounds strange. I'd write it this way.

有夜鶯立於橡上,茫茫然高歌如常,為一餓鷹所見。鷹俯衝而擒之。

I added an adjective for how the nightingale sings because that looks nicer.

>>23431355
off-topic

>>23431355
I was writing in a condensed / rythmic manner rather than using full grammatical marking. Also not sure of what words to exactly use, I'm more familiar with modern

>>23424455
I'll give those a look.
>>23430248
Maybe two or three months, maybe more. I have a tendency to rush through things so I feel like I didn't really absorb a lot of the vocabulary even though I could "grasp" and understand most of what I was reading. I've gone through Familia Romana twice and its supplementa, including Sermōnēs Romānī. I felt decent because I'm able to read Aquinas fairly fluently but I'm noticing his diction and word order are "friendlier" to English compared to Caesar's. Think I just need to keep reading and reading. Caesar is coming to me slowly but surely. The initial shock was what threw me over the edge.

>>23431355
Oops! You seem to be posting off-topic. Please take discussion of languages other than Greek and Latin to their own proper threads.

>>23431589
Read Epitome historiae sacrae and ritchie's fabulae, then you will be ready for Caesar.

>>23422945
Are there any online spaces focused on Classical literature?
I'm quite a lot into it and have difficulty finding people who have actually read the books. Seems most, even those supposedly into it, prefer to read wiki entries and reddit threads rather than the books themselves.

>>23431651
No

>>23431662
I don't believe you anon.

>>23431665
Fuck off back to Goodreads idiot

>>23431677
I can understand being dismissive in order to keep away retards.
But it only works if you are not a retard yourself kek.

>>23431702
pro-tip: the first reply you are likely going to get ITT is from the local troll, a pathetic subhuman who spends 24/7 here who wants to ruin the general, so beware, 99% of us minus this ape are very nice

>>23431732
Thank you anon.
I've used the thread's resources a couple of times in the past and I know that it's a very nice place.
I don't mind the troll, he is pretty funny.

>>23431355
>>23430914
How hard is Zhou era philosophy to read?

>>23431841
>Bing ling go to ching town
>Cut off his foot because father say so
>10,000,000 years of honor good luck joy
>This shows the impermanence of things
Such a masterpiece!

>>23431841
Very difficult, but depends on the author.
Easiest - Confucius (small passages and conversations, the short length alone makes it easy. Some things are overly abstract)
Medium - Mozi - relatively simple language but long passages
Hard - Zhuangzi - difficult language but passages mostly relate to fairly understandable concepts, once you get the passage done. Might need external explaining to make it click, I've translated some of his stuff and it took a few hours but wasn't impossible.
Harder - Laozi / Daodejing / Tao te Ching - obscure and circular passages that you really have to ponder the meanings of. Translating them into English doesn't help much.
Hardest - Mencius. Reading his language is like eating rotten bananas, and the meaning is about as apparent. Going from Zhuangzi to his writing is a massive step down - Zhuangzi says nothing and conveys a complex idea, he writes a entire chapter and simply says "to be human you need to be kind or something"
Impossible - Yi jing / I ching / book of changes

There's also hanfeizi, liezi, and many others but these are the ones I'm familiar with.

>>23432018
>bing bong long dongg
off-topic

>>23432236
You haven't even posted your "rule" in this thread yet retard

>if man no should eat kok, then why dog meat hard like kok make so yum yum?
Such wise phirrosophy master chingchong San!

>>23430914
>>23431355
Y’all know about Chinese, it seems, and I was wondering- how does Chinese poetry work? Iirc the words are all monosyllabic, so you can’t really do stresses or long/short. Is there a real difference from prose in Chinese, or does it have a particular way to compose poetry?

>>23432282
China country poem very simple good good you like! First you put dog in oil,

>>23432282
The words are mostly monosyllabic, yes, but there are some binomes
As for poetry there are many types but they mostly focus on line length, parallel grammar/logical structures, and tone/rhyme (middle Chinese and later have tone systems, old Chinese did not so its poetry is different)
The most prominent type is 近體詩 - "modern poetry" (not that modern, it's from the 500s) which is limited to 4 or 8 lines with 5 or 7 characters each and has to follow internal rhyme and tone pattern rules + all lines need to rhyme

>>23432282
Not the anons you asked to or very well versed in chinese poetry, but they use tone patterns and use line length like in French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, etc.
Some anons in this thread will probably be able to give more detailed answers

>>23432357
>>23432359
Off-topic
You have your own thread at >>23409512. Stop shitting up ours

>>23431589
Familia Romana + supplementa in 3 months? Am I retarded if it took me twice as long?

>>23432470
Yes. Get off this thread, there's no need for sub-70 IQ LLPSI monkeys here.

Honestly there needs to be a clg entrance exam

>>23432470
I should add that I put myself through a very rigorous regimen that I wouldn't recommend to anyone except the most dedicated--8 hours a day at times reading LLPSI and other materials (Summa Theologicae), listening to podcasts and videos in Latin, talking to ChatGPT in Latin, etc. So I think I ended up grasping the general structure of the language but not absorbing the vocabulary, as said above.
>>23431646
Already read those: Epitome Historiae Sacrae took me around 3 or 4 days to finish, which I just did last week. But it's all good, I'm starting to pick up Caesar.

>>23432402
Off-topic
You have your own thread at >>23422298 .

>>23432522
>talking to ChatGPT in Latin, etc
Lmfaooooo this nibba

>>23432525
OBSESSED

>>23432402
Off-topic
You have your own thread at >>23422298 .

What do we think about implementing some kind of proof of achievement to keep the trolls out, like >>23432511 said?
Honestly seek necessary these days

>>23432522
>talking to ChatGPT
Not a good idea for any language btw
It hallucinates and will say you're right when you're not

>>23432531
Meds

>>23432531
What are you talking about? Honestly this is just kind of embarrassing at this point

>>23432532
Not a bad idea. I could help design it once I have time to sit down.

>>23432527
Yes, because let's just resurrect Cicero and Caesar and talk with them.
>>23432534
I just use it to break down sentences or explain them, i.e., "ChatGPTe, expōne, amābō te et pedēs tuī quaesōque, hanc sententiam vel explicā mihi, amābō te, hoc, vel praebe summam vel summā; vel rescrībe facilī Latinē, etc., etc."
Plus it's ChatGPT 4o, which seems to work fine. I just use it to get through harder passages without translating to English.

>>23432558
uno burrito por favor senor jew machine

>>23432564
I don't know what else to tell you. No one speaks Latin. There are no people around who speak it. ChatGPT is the next-best thing. Tacē!

>>23432522
>8 hours a day
That's a huge waste and it's no wonder you didn't retain lots of vocabulary, as you said. Unless you're a savant, cognition hits diminishing returns after 4 hours of intense concentration on new material. In addition, your brain needs time at rest to consolidate what you learn, so the extra time spent is actually detrimental to recall.

>>23432569
>hmmm, im backed into a corner, maybe le ebig latin quote will make me sound smart...
invictus!

>>23432558
Ok, maybe later versions are better - 3.5 is useless

>>23432569
A teacher maybe

>>23432587
You can't shine shit

>>23432582
Not only was it a waste but I also probably burned myself out because of it and can't seem to pick it back up. I just want to get to Vergil and be done with this language.
>>23432586
I don't know who you are or why you felt the need to shit up this thread. Did /pol/ send you? Don't you have gore to post in /uhg/, little pup?
>>23432587
Who teaches Latin?
>>23432597
But you can go get your shinebox to shine my shit and shoes. Habē silentiam, quaeso.

>>23432605
This is just embarrassing. Please stop.

>>23432624
That's funny because I forget the part where I asked.

>>23432605
What does "getting to" Vergil look like to you? And why would you be done after that?

>>23432558
did it actually get better at producing Latin? I haven't checked compared to last version, I had found it too unidiomatic to be an helpful tool i.e sounded too much like translating from english to a modern-ish latin, otherwise it can be helpful to translate

>>23432605
> I just want to get to Vergil and be done with this language.

You are lying to yourself, you will never be able to appreciate Vergil or any other latin author.

Bait.

>>23432629
Watch out the high schoolers getting sassy!

>>23432637
"Getting to" Vergil, thanks for asking, means being able to fluently and comfortably read the Aeneid and his other works. I'd be done after that because I honestly--and this may be the veritable and alleged burnout talking--don't give a shit about any other Latin author besides maybe Ovid.
>>23432641
I don't know if I know enough to know if it's good. From what I can tell it does all right although I've noticed some glaring mistakes that seem to show it's still translating from English. It works decent enough for me to get through tougher passages. Still testing it out to see how to use it best.
>>23432642
But I've already dipped my proverbial toes into Virgil (look at you using "Vergil" like a true Roman, like you know anything about Latin, little pup).
>>23432651
So many grammatical mistakes in so few words. Don't you have gore with which to shit up a /pol/ thread?

>>23432656
That was to throw you and see how you reacted to prove you're a pretentious high schooler. Now that I know for sure we can all safely ignore you. You'll still get your first handhold if you pay a prostitute, it's not too late.

>>23432656
Good bait

>>23432662
No need: your mother's free.

>>23422945
I've been struggling a bit with reading Caesar. One anon recommended me to go to Wikisource and reading 5-10 chapters at a time. It takes me ~40 minutes to an hour to read ~7 chapters or so. The participles and clauses are killing me even if they're simple. I'm thinking of reading Allen and Greenough's New Latin Grammar and learning more vocabulary. I can recognize the parts of a word (e.g. praesum, supervenio) and sorta parse its meaning for most words, but can't recognize the exact meanings for them. Is this a good idea? I'm also at the point where I can read the Vulgate pretty easily - should I do that instead?

>>23432673
Friend, I'm in the same boat. Make sure you don't use ChatGPT like the other anons said. Invent a time machine and go back in time to talk to Caesar to see what he meant. Or resurrect him from the dead. It's the only way. The other anons have figured it the fuck out. Don't use what the Jews do!

>>23432667
Ooooo oooo your getting sent to the principal!!

>>23432673
see >>23431732 regarding the first reply you got
as for your question, if you say "The participles and clauses are killing me" it sounds like you may have both grammar and lexical shortcomings, but that said, struggling with Caesar is in itself the method to hammer those down, are you re-reading whatever you have gone through up until you can read fluently? gotta do that

I tend to avoid recommending the Vulgate because it may not really do you much good when you return to Caesar due to the different registers, it won't hurt I guess but you eventually need to read classical authors

>>23432673
Depends on where you want to get to. If you want to read classical latin, I wouldn't recommend putting a lot of efforts into reading the vulgate.
If you still struggle with caesar that much, you should drop him for something easier like Fabulae faciles and other readers. Come back to caesar after that.

Another reason why I wouldn't recommend reading the vulgate, if you find it easy, is that you need to find the balance between too easy and too hard. The perfect text would be just a bit of your level.

A final advice would be to take your time and don't rush, you will eventually reach caesar's level. Good luck !

>>23432673
Depends on where you want to get to. If you want to read classical latin, I wouldn't recommend the vulgate.
If you still struggle with caesar that much, you should drop him for something easier like Fabulae faciles and other readers. Come back to caesar later.

The perfect text would be just a bit over your level.

A final advice would be to take your time and don't rush, you will eventually reach caesar's level. Good luck !

>>23432692
I have been rereading as well - and only marginally faster than the first reading. I think that's only because I remember how a difficult sentence translates into English, or I sit there analyzing the cases for minutes. What's the best way to get over those grammar and lexical shortcomings then?

Coward
>>>/pol/469432812

>>23432707
maybe as >>23432706 said you could downgrade to something slightly easier if Caesar still strains you too much; on top of what the other anon suggested, I used Lhomond's De Viris Illustribus before jumping to Caesar https://www.thelatinlibrary.com/lhomond.viris.html
sadly there really isn't much of an alternative for lexicon other than reading a lot
don't shy away from checking your basic grammar again if push comes to shove as well

>>23432727
>>23432706
>>23432692
>>23432673
How about just don't be a coward and keep grinding Caesar until you can read Caesar?

>>23432747
Inefficiency.

>>23422945
Stupid question
>graduated 2010 with BA in Classics
>4 years Latin (no composition), 3 years Greek
>became a pilot, haven't read a word of Latin or Greek in nearly 15 years
I'm basically back at square one with the exception of a few verb conjugations that I'll probably still remember on my death bed... still have my trusty Wheelock's and started over. Is it still the gold standard of elementary Latin instruction or would it be worth picking up any other resources?
For Greek, I couldn't even remember the alphabet. Not sure if I'll ever bother to come back to this one, but if I did, what's a Wheelock equivalent for someone who is essentially starting from scratch? No particular goal beyond reading at the intermediate level again (Caesar, Tacitus, etc).

>>23432869
Nothing. You are retarded

>>23432869
see >>23431732 regarding the first reply you got
Wheelock's is still up there for sure, I used it myself more recently even if I would now prefer the LLPSI route, but in the FAQ you can find other suggestions as well though I'm not familiar with them
for Greek I'll let some more grammar-inclined anons get to you because I used only Athenaze before jumping to readers and easy Attic

>>23432890
Funny that that's coming from the /pol/ mouth-breather qui sine morā postet /pol/ī

Lol. The troll's thread was a flop even if the jannies didn't delete it. Now it has been archived and this dude had to come back here, to the thread he was telling us was not official.
Lol. What a pathetic dude.
Quod maxime risum movet est hoc: cinaedus iste unquam nec Latine nec Graece aliquid scribere potuit. Ille, qui custodem studiorum classicorum se praestat. LOL.

Don't get off-topic.

>>23432946
Est scilicet stultus et inanus, iste, iste hūc, qui arrogāre et derogāre et proficīscī potest, sed non autem Latinē nec Graecē etiam verbum singulum scribere potest; etiam si eī detur trēs annōs! :D

>>23432946
iste homunculus quoque censet profecto oportere quoscumque linguis praeter Graecam aut Latinam operam dantes extreuropaeos esse, cum vero fortasse sunt modo talibus docti linguis in universitatibus Europaeis sive Anglicis
ecce homo qui plurimis valebat linguis praeter hesperias: sane videtur Sinicus vultu et cultu, mmh, fortasse etiam dimidia parte Indicus

>>23433014
>>23433054
Nescio Latinam nec volo discere linguam barbarorum.
Write in Greek.

>>23433054
Iste homonculus amēns et stultus inanusque (hahae, anus!) tantummodo mundum occidentem salvēre vellet; fortasse indiget muliere pretiossissima

>>23433069
κἀγὼ τῷ Ῥωμαϊστὶ προθείην ἄν μᾶλλον τὸ Ἑλληνιστὶ ἀμείψασθαι πέπον

Am I completely retarded? What is the diff between the two things I circled? Aren’t they both iota adscripts?

>>23432869
Something similar here, though not nearly as long of a break and graduated in 2009
You will be surprised how much comes back. Start reading actual Latin. Caesar, Cicero, Virgil, whatever. Go through Wheelock as you do so. The reading will jog your memory. Also consult Allen & Greenough for finer points of grammar. If you have BA in Classics you should be familiar with that book already.
For Greek Mastronarde's Intro to Attic Greek. Scratches the same itch as Wheelock.
Believe it or not your grammar is only rusty and will rapidly improve in a short time. Vocab will be the killer. Start making word lists and keep a good dictionary handy for a long time.
Most important thing is to read and keep reading. Much will come back to you of its own accord. For that I recommend Gellius and Isidorus - both are relatively simple and their works are divided into easily digestible chunks. They also wrote on a variety of topics so you are sure to find things of interest in them.

>>23433291
No the first is a true diphthong.
It is a terrible example though, much better to use eta or omega.
Hard to explain, just google iota adscript (subscript)

>>23433291
>Am I completely retarded?
yes. give up and rope

>>23433291
basically the iota subscript people normally learn replaces the iota following a _long_ vowel, and that is the case with ᾍδης, the latter being the most common writing, albeit for example I encountered the adscript iota in Teubners of the Iliad and Odyssey
first case in your example instead is a "normal" diphthong

>>23432531
based

What's the Cassel's Latin Dictionary of Hebrew?

>>23431589
you need the master the oratio obliqua. once you do, it will be smooth sailing like in a lazy river. caesar is so loved by teachers because he expresses himself without a load of rhetorical ornamentation like cicero who ended up winning the style wars. it gets easier as you pick on the idiomatic phrases and specific diction related to wars, diplomacy, geography and politics.

Its fucked how Wheelock's Loci Immutati throws you straight into poetry and Cicero.

>>23434009
Do you know what Immutati means?

>>23434038
Isnt that like a secret cult that controls the government

>quae turpia esse cognoverit fugit
Is cognoverit here subjunctive of characteristic?

>>23434254
kinda stumbled myself how to describe it, not sure what you mean by "subjunctive of characteristic", I think it may have to do with subordinate clauses in infinitive phrases needing the subjunctive

>>23433757
Yes. Primo vidī orationem obliquam Caesaris, perterritus sum; vel, visā oratione prima obliquā Caesaris, perterritus sum! Sed non iam timore perterritus sum. It gets easier after the first few like you said; sicut natāns in flūmine

>>23433745
Brown Driver Briggs is probably the best single volume dictionary out there. Only issue that I have with it is that it’s organized by roots, and that comes with a couple of issues. A. There are some words for which we don’t have roots to be sure, and they just manufacture hypothetical roots for those words. B. You have to be good at finding the roots, and then be able to find that root to find the lexical item in the dictionary. It’s annoying, but not the end of the world.

There’re others, but despite the issues, it’s still one of the best ones out there

>>23434254
Videtur "cognoverit" in modō conjunctivō sit propter condicionēs hypotheticīs vel universālēs. Exempli gratiā: "Puer, quae dulcia sint, amat; quae amara sint, vitet." Ly "dulcia" et "amara" sunt res generālēs, ita in modō conjunctivō relativō esse oportunt.

>>23434254
Videtur "cognoverit" in modō conjunctivō sit propter condicionēs hypotheticōs vel universālēs. Exempli gratiā: "Puer, quae dulcia sint, amat; quae amara sint, vitet." Ly "dulcia" et "amara" sunt res generālēs, ita in modō conjunctivō relativō esse oportunt.

So basically what I gather, and sorry for the Latin above, just practicing, is that it takes the subjunctive because it's speaking about general things and it's also in a relative clause: "quae turpia esse cognoverit". "Fugit" principalum verbum est quod continetur clausum relativum, "quae turpia esse cognoverit."

>>23433178
nta but why does protheien take the dative here if you're saying you'd prefer that he responds in Greek? Wouldn't that be the genitive w. Romaisti? Or am I misunderstanding?

>>23435924
I used it in the form προτίθημί τί τινι i.e prefer something(τι) to something(τινι), but thinking about it maybe it would more commonly be rather προτίθημί τί τινος, so maybe you are right
I also meant to say I prefer to reply in Greek

What do (you) learn your TL for: philosophy or history? I feel like these are the main reasons for learning a classical language, and while I'm not mad about philosophy, I enjoy reading the works of historians
I guess there is also poetry and prose but those aren't as important

youre all fagots

>>23436030
idk, I went in without a particular genre in mind to be honest, in fact, so far I'd say what I liked the most has been poetry despite starting as the kind of autismo that never appreciated the genre even in his own native language and never thought he would, but I also liked more historical works so far
philosophy on the other hand I mostly ignored so far except for some Cicero, but I would like to eventually read at least Plato and see where I go from there

>>23436030
I don’t even know. I don’t expect I’ll ever be fluent enough to stop leaning on translations anyway.

>>23436030
religion

This sentence in LLPSI is driving me up the wall, I can't for the life of me figure out what it's getting at and I feel I'm missing something obvious. The topic is how many guests can sit on a singular bed during dinner.
>Cum igitur paucissimi sunt convivae, non pauciores sun quam tres, cum plurimi, non plures quam novem – nam ter terni sunt novem.
My best translation is
>Therefore when there are the smallest amount of guests, (thought) not as little as three, when there are many guests, (though) not as many as nine -- for three threes is nine.
What the fuck does this mean? I can't figure out where I'm wrong but this sentence makes no fucking sense.

>>23436306
When the number of guests is the smallest possible, it's not smaller than three, when it's the largest possible, it's not larger than nine.
In other words, minimum lotation: 3, maximum lotation: 9

>>23436030
Religion but also like another anon said I won't ever be fluent enough in any language besides English to understand what's going on.

>>23436162
>>23436381
It's funny to me how the languages of two longstanding pagan/multitheistic societies became to important to monotheistic Christianity

>>23436416
It is but it isn't though. Some say the Aenēis predicted Christianity and Aenēās was a precursor to Christ, which I'm apt to believe. The coming of a new world, establishing a new kingdom, etc.

>>23436471
Or you're a stupid fucking piece of shit who will nbever read latin

>>23436488
Sed legō et scrībō Latinē iam, mī homunculē stultē.

>>23436502
>duolingo
je voudrai uno burrito por favor

>>23436516
First of all, Duolingo's shit for learning Latin and the course isn't even fully developed; second, your sentence starts in bad French and ends in bad Spanish: you should pick a language to stick to next time when you come up with insults.

>>23436530
>t. obsessed , seething

>>23436530
Fuck off Chang

>>23436530
/clg/ is not for stating the obvious. Fuck off.

/cgl/ + /clg/ crossover when?

>>23433291
is that from

This is a thing? wtf?

I hate every last one of you smug fuckers who think you're so smart. You need some exposure to the real world

>>23436665
stuprabo te

>>23436665
this coming from a de facto janitor 24/7 on this board and on this thread genuinely got a chuckle from me, well done

Ignoscite mihi, sodales, sed neologismo uti mihi necesse est, cum nesciam quomodo Latinius dicatur.
Homunculus iste "complexum infetioritatis" patitur, et hac de causa tam moleste erga omnes se gerit. Re vera istius misereor.

>>23436318
I suppose I understand that, but then what's with the "three threes is nine" bit at the end? How does that connect?

>>23436722
terni is more like triple, times three
whats the rest of the context, igitur heavily implies there was something before that.

>>23436689
Sane. Videtur mihi mater sua non satis eum, istem homunculum stultissimum, amaverit. Igitur ipse quoque istius et casūs condicionisque sui misereor et revera opto ut quiscumque eum adiuvet.

>>23436733
The preceding sentences are:
>"Neque enim sedentes cenant Romani, sed in lectis cubantes. Quot convivae in singulis lectis accubant? In singulis lectis aut singuli aut bini aut terni convivae accubare solent."
I understand this part, but I can't make it connect entirely.

>>23436676
>illa imago
risum movet

>>23436791
I'd assume there is something somewhere about there being a maximum of 3 couches in a room or party.
I'll also say this type of writing seems boring as hell

Lets say that I'm a Jew
I was raised secular but I really want to become serious and dedicate a lot of my free time to studying Hebrew and Aramaic and studying the Bible in the original language
I don't want to go to Israel and I don't know anyone who speaks modern Hebrew
Am I still going to learn modern Hebrew? Or is it possible to really think and dream in Biblical Hebrew and Aramaic through the Bible?

>>23437089
biblical and modern hebrew are rather different.

>>23437089
What a revolting premise, for your sake I hope it isn't true.

>>23437126
It's a hypothetical
>>23437112
So likely it wouldn't be helpful?

>>23437089
Read every anthology of
Gershom Scholem's occasional essays and Raul Hilberg's autobiography/memoir ASAP

>>23437089
>I don't want to go to Israel
What a waste. Lend me your Jew card so I can get immersion practice

>>23437130
I mean they're similar enough, but there are a few differences. One would be very helpful with the other.

>>23437081
I guess so, thanks
>also this type of writing seems boring as hell
It absolutely is, but I'm just reading for volume right now since I have to know a certain amount of Latin by a certain date. Once I'm past that, I can actually enjoy what I'm reading a bit more.

>>23435190
How else would they organize it?

>>23436306
>Cum igitur paucissimi sunt convivae, non pauciores sunt quam tres, cum plurimi, non plures quam novem – nam ter terni sunt novem.
Therefore, when the guests are fewest, there are no fewer than three, when very many, no more than nine, for thrice three is nine. It takes a while to get distributive numbers down. >>23437081 must be right in that there can only be 3 couches at the dinner, i.e:
>in singulis lectis aut singuli aut bini aut terni convivae accubare solent
It's customary that either one or two or three guests *apiece* recline on each couch, i.e., no fewer than 3 guests (1 guest apiece for each couch) and no more than 9 (3 guests apiece for each couch).

>>23436030
Poetry and prose are what actually can’t be translated though… you’d have to have very, very niche interests within philosophy or history to make language learning worth it if you don’t care about the aesthetics of the language.

>>23436030
>philosophy or history
>main reasons
Literally the worst and most useless reasons to learn a language but you do you.

>>23436642
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/27433

>>23436642
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/93928

>>23437270
i disagree. my original motivation for learning greek was to access plato's and aristotle's vocabulary.

>>23437646
Nta, but I'd love to read philosophy. I just assume that's far more difficult than reading poetry or history, so those were my motivations. And I'm excited to move on to Koine for Biblical Greek and have a far easier time going through it for the background in Attic Greek.

>>23437656
plato, aristotle and even most of the presocratic fragments i've read are much easier than thycydides or sophocles or pindar

> Learn to Write Ancient Greek: A Step-by-Step Approach to Writing Biblical & Classical Greek
https://www.amazon.com/Learn-Write-Ancient-Greek-Step/dp/1452870357

how the fuck do i get a copy of this? why the fuck cant i just buy a pdf??? retardedass author

>>23437797
nvm, the reviews said its just basic shit you'd learn in your first greek lesson.

Any Ancient Greek composition workbooks? or do i just read, compose and try to be as idiomatic as possible?

>>23437814
there are some around, but I don't remember any names (when I was in college the classics department had some in their library). They really aren't workbooks though but mostly restate grammar and discuss a few words that could be false friends when composing something in Greek. In the end, you just need to read and try to get a feel for things.

>>23437662
Hmmmm, really? I did not expect that at all. So how long does one have to study to actually read Republic or Metaphysics?

>>23437854
Nta, but Aristotle's usually straightforward, it's really just a lot of keeping track of pronouns. Not exciting, and very crabbed, but very manageable. He's hard for reasons of content, not necessarily grammar, though there are obviously tricky passages. Plato’s harder, since he works through different registers. You can get a line from Meno that's simple and unproblematic, and then this weird contorted paragraph from Socrates.

>>23437089
Modern Hebrew and Biblical Hebrew are semi-related languages, but on the whole, they are not the same language. Modern Hebrew has entirely different systems of grammar and word formation in many cases, primarily due to the influence of Germanic languages like English. The two languages do share some vocabulary and of course the alphabet, but that tends to be the extent.

>>23437854
>So how long does one have to study to actually read Republic or Metaphysics
As soon as you want. It'll always be challenging at the beginning. But let's say after two years of reading through Athenaze, Xenophon and other simpler readers and authors you start reading The Republic and Peloponnesian Wars, you'll find Plato much easier to get into.
I've only read Categories and Poetics from Aristotle so I can't say how difficult Metaphysics would be in Greek. I assume the real challenge comes from trying to grasp his concepts rather than the language.

Plutarch is kicking my ass bloody

>>23437797
Abebooks has one right now

>>23437202
I believe that some dictionaries organize by lexical item. So in the BDB, מִשְׁפַּת is under שׁ As part of שׁפת, whereas if organized by lexical item it would be under מ. Minor difference, but it makes words easier to find if you don’t have to play “Find the Root”

Realistically, how silly would it be to dive into the Aeneid with no knowledge of Latin? Would it just be a process of osmosis whereby I'd come to know the language by just studying the Aeneid?

>>23438317
Try it and report back with your findings

>>23438067
Bro same, he makes me feel like a Greeklet. Sometimes I read one of his pages like Xenophon or the NT, but sometimes I have to look up half the words in the dictionary and still barely understand it. Still, it's rewarding.
What life are you reading? I'm almost done with Philopoemen

>>23438329
I started not too long ago, I read the lives of Theseus and Romulus and now I'm at Lycurgus. The little chapters are also seemingly getting longer so I'm only doing 5 a day of the ~30 or so. I can definitely see people saying his lexicon is vast weren't lying, I didn't find such lexical difficulties with Thucydides albeit the latter kicks you in the groin with his style

Did you know that Loebs used to be made out of leather? But nowadays they're just shitty print-on-demand, glue-bound, made in China garbage.
Thank you for opening up China and beginning the process that would utterly destroy Euro-American craftsmanship, unable to economically compete with bugs who subsist on 2 bowls of rice and a nickel a day. Best President ever. We need to keep economically developing the third world. We need more cheap garbage flowing out of sweatshops. Accelerate the reign of quantity. I want to spend $40 on Greek texts printed on toilet paper and bound in mud. I love capitalism and globalism so mvch.

>>23438489
Chinks really do ruin everything

a loeb from 1913. and nixon was cool.

>>23438036
>As soon as you want
No. Be serious. If you're looking up every word and have no internalization of grammar, that is not reading. Reading happens when a person actually has enough fluency to comprehend word by word, sentence by sentence as one goes along. Autodidactism is getting out of hand.

>>23438588
Ok I guess I should more attack Reagan, Bush and especially Clinton for Chinese sweatshop Loebs, but I do have one in my hands that was leather bound.

>>23438609
i guess i should've been more specific and said as soon as you've completed a greek textbook. i read Ion after 6 months of studying and had a pretty good time with it, even if i had to check a translation every now and then. geoffrey steadman's site can help with gaps in the vocabulary.
>Autodidactism is getting out of hand.
nope. this is how we do it in uni.

>>23438631
why are you blaming nixon if they were making clothbound loebs in the 1910's?
>I do have one
care to post a pic? i have an old leather bound teubner but i've never heard of a leather loeb.

>>23438655
It's not just the leather, even the clothbound ones were of much higher quality. Just compare the feel of one from pre-1980 or so and the feel of a modern one.
And yeah I will post a pic soon

>>23438609
>Autodidactism is getting out of hand.
>NOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST LEARN ON YOUR OWN IN HALF THE TIME IT WOULD TAKE YOU AT A UNIVERSITY YOU NEED A JEW PROFESSOR WHO DOESN'T EVEN SPEAK THE LANGUAGE TO TEACH YOU LATIN THEN CHASTISE THE ROMANS FOR THE LACK OF FEMALE AND BLACK AUTHORS IN THE CANON NOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST USE LLPSI AND IMMERSE YOURSELF YOU NEED TO PAY THE JEWS MORE MONEY TO NOT LEARN THE LANGUAGE

>>23438683
oxford classical texts have also gone downhill. It's better to get used than new.

>>23438609
Autodidactism > Autodilation

I’ve been learning Latin for four years now and still basically suck at it. I’ve read FR and RA and dozens of authentic texts but still can’t produce competent Latin on my own. If I had written this post in Latin it would have taken me 20 minutes.

>>23438588
Pumpkinification is a lesser Seneca text and not even that good anyways.

>>23439471
Quattuor iam annos latine disco nec bene scio. FR perlegi et RA et multa alia et vera nec sine maximis difficultatibus latine componere possum. Hoc si latine, viginti fere minutas consumpsissem in scribendo.

>>23439588
>nec bene
*necdum bene

ecce hominis ineruditio

>>23439471
You'll never be good, so why not just rope?

>>23439694
Vidēte, amicī, ecce iterum homunculus.

Would anyone be up for a /clg/ Greek read through? I'm thinking Thucydides, 1-2 OCT pages a day, but I'd be up for Plutarch or Plato if other anons would prefer one of them. Each day we would post any thoughts we had about that day's reading, ask for grammatical help, etc. (in Greek if you want)

>>23439471
>I never practiced writing and now I'm not good at it

I am in the same boat. Have you tried a composition textbook?

>>23437257
Thank you so much, this was very helpful

>>23439793
>Writing with macrons
lol

>>23439844
>a composition textbook?
No, can you recommend any?

>>23439896
Bradley's Arnold
Califf - A Guide to Latin Meter and Verse Composition
First for prose, second for poetry. Highly recommend second even if you don't care about poetry, it will help your prose immensely

>>23439896
I think the mega has at least two. North and Hillard and Bennett. They both have exercises and answer keys.

Once upon a time, when I was feeling less lazy and more motivated, I started trying to turn the exercises into javascript-based quizzes so I could drill them. I got maybe the first dozen chapters done before it felt like hard work and I became a lazy shit.

can any of you irish niggas help a nigga out?

>>23439802
My Greek is not good enough. I'd be up for Latin though.

>>23439802
thucydides would be okay so long as we only do one page when he's doing a speech. I read book 7 a few years ago, and while I recall most of his prose being quite nice, his speeches were terrifying to get through.

>>23438635
Sounds like a poor uni, but yes, always be specific.

>>23438948
>>23439147
I see I triggered a few pseuds. Expected.

>>23440373
"A few" refers to more than two, smartypants

>>23439471
Reading is more important than composition, (you) will never write anything worthwhile so there's no point in learning it

>>23440590
I'm sure I triggered more than those two, tranny. Has anyone ever told you you have the vibe of a chubby Kindergarten teacher?

AYO! LISTEN UP (not that this is important)! I think I may be using a not so good textbook for Greek—Ancient Greek: A 21st Century Approach by Phillip S. Peek on OCW—and I've realized this after seeing that Raineiri guy go through Athenaze and a bunch of other books, but now I'm committed and kind of want to see if I tough it out whether it will prove effective in the end.

What do you think? Is it worth it? Has anyone used this book before?

reminder there was no long vowels

>>23440698
You must be losing track of your personas. In this conversation you were being the tranny who simps for c*llege.

>>23440726
You should have thought up a better post.

>>23439802
I think I'd be too busy to follow along unless it's something I already stumbled upon or read like the first books of Thucydides, in any case I may give it a try

>>23439802
1-2 pages of Thucydides per day is a bad idea. Get a reading group started with something that low-intermediate readers can approach. Ideally choose a Plato dialogue with a Steadman reader.

>>23439802
>>23441876
I agree that reading a short platonic dialogue would be a better idea. There's a Steadman edition of Crito which would be short and relatively easy.

The first reading is
>ur moms cont
LOL

Alright how bout we start Crito in 2 days? Let's do 43a-43b. For the day after that, if it was too slow, we can add more, if too fast, we can do less.
I guess I overestimated how much time people have (not everyone is a neet like me) but maybe we could do Thucydides afterwards if Crito goes well, or maybe just another Plato dialogue. We'll see.

>>23442282
Lets start ur mom

>>23442309
Write that in Greek or Latin

>>23442315
Ex mater tuum incipiamus

>>23442282
i'm down.

學詞形廢時
讀孔子善哉

>>23442415
Off topic
Fuck off chang

>>23442415
Shut the fuck up chink.

>>23442415
CWNBACL (Chinkese will never be a classical language)

just letting Chinese bros know you are welcome to post more and if you got the time, report the ameriturd excrement

>>23442415
YWNBAW

>>23442415
Fuck off dumb chink
You have your containment thread >>23409512

>>23442415
Bing fong shao is not a language let alone classical

>>23442415
based
t: greekbro

>>23442658
if you didn't post in it maybe thy would move there just to be rid of your retarded ass.

Hate jeeets

>>23442616
But it's in the name, Classical Chinese :3

>>23442639
I'm not the tranny
We don't associate with them

>>23442845
Bing shing long is not a language, let alone classical
Back to your containment thread >>23409512

>>23442845
Shut the fuck up chink
No one wants to hear your ugly nya nao ching pao
Go deep fry a dog

>>23442415
What's it mean? I don't know a lick of Chinese, but its a cool language, even if I only know Latin

>>23442942
You don't know Latin either you pseud
Shut the fuck up

τὸ νέον » >>23442984
τὸ νέον » >>23442984
τὸ νέον » >>23442984

>>23442954
Cur cinaedus sese nunc non necatne?

>>23443068
bestiolae nequeunt sibi mortem consciscere