/lit/ - Literature

>>23416788
Don't even include the fact they enslave "subservient" mythical creatures and are ruled over by corrupt wizard-nazis, and refuse to help muggles with problems that lead to millions of their deaths per year and global suffering, the message is pretty clear honestly.

Wizards are fucking assholes.

Mom is based

Yeah well, what did the muggles ever do for Harry?
Harry is leaving the world that did nothing for him and entering an amazing magical world, the one that his parents inhabited

That segregation is best

>>23416788
If there was a population of people with literal magic powers only accessible to that population, they would damn sure look down on everyone else. Just reality.

>>23416788
This isnt literature btw. Its comfy entertainment, I still remember the fun times reading the books and watching the movies. But not literature

>>23416946
Same could be said of the works of Dumas

>>23416949
Yes

>>23416946
While I agree in this case, those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

>>23416946
So if you have fun while reading a book, the books stops being literature?

>>23417028
No, as this anon says >>23417022.

>>23417033
What's the line in the sand that a book has to cross to go from literature to just entertainment?

>>23417035
It's like pornography. You know it when you see it.

>>23417043
>literary merit is like pornography
Thank you for sharing your amazing insight, my friend.

>>23417048
Any time, pal

>>23417051
lmao

>>23416788
Rowling just naturally writes characters who naturally discriminate against each other and see no issue with that, while at the same time despising it when they themselves are judged. It's done very authentically because you can see that she just likely never gave to much thought to it and just wrote what she felt made sense.

>>23416788
JK is setting a theme here, even the 'Good" wizards consider themselves superior to humans, though many feel as if the humans shouldn't be treated as lesser beings.

>>23417183
Discrimination is very human in nature. Even children discriminate. Even animals discriminate. To create a world where everyone is just high on equality would be fake and unreadable.

>>23416946
you know better than a world-renowned aesthetician?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=_bwWxKf8rXXbfZYG&v=tHGNf6nWUm0

>>23416788
>What's the message here?
That the entire magical world is racist to muggles, and Voldy was retard.

>>23416788
>>23416800
>>23416802
Perhaps it is a disguised criticism of how the world is run, and you just got filtered.

>>23417028
>written works, especially those considered of superior or lasting artistic merit.
>books and writings published on a particular subject.

>>23416788

>>23417242
JK's villains sucked.
Voldemort was a shallow shitty ass villain who had no redemption in him. He was like a one-sided bad guy and her considerations taken when making him were shallow.
Snape was the only good evil character.

>>23416788
All they did was write in spiders silk and killed us.

>>23416788
What did you expect from a Satanic subvert?

>>23416788
Children intuit in-groups, having the wizards signal their in-group status amongst themselves increases the immersive quality of the story for the child, who gets a feeling of eavesdropping on a special group of people separate from them

>>23416788
In the 90s everyone just agreed that whites were superior and liberals like Rowling were only arguing that we shouldn't be cruel to brownpeople, and should leave them alone in their muggle world/countries

>>23416946
It's literature by definition. Simple, entertaining, with children as the target audience, but still literature.

>No, this book is not literature because it's not complex enough.
>No, this video game is not video game because it does not have gameplay complex enough.
>No, this painting is not art because I don't like it.

Why are you people like this?

>>23416788
Essentially, the series in part tries to be a metaphor for how le racists are le bad, and it succeeds mostly when it comes to half-blood and muggle born wizards, but at the same time the series absolutely portrays a wizard supremacist view and muggles as a lower people no one should want to be (also mirrored by the author's social media and the entire fandom), as such putting forward the exact message it thinks it criticizes.

>>23416788
"Potter I've spent longer in the Muggle world than you have. I was born there, like you, and like you my adoptive family never understood me. Indeed they were most abusive--as yours were. I know the Dursleys, Vernon works at a drill factory I believe. Do you know how a "power drill" works, Potter? An electric motor functions by manipulating the magnetic field in the housing. A device as complex as the most sophisticated astrolabe uses this energy field to spin a bit.

The closest thing to magic these stupid Hylics have ever accomplished and they use it to construct advertisements for Toby Carvery. GEH. This is what you are fighting for, Potter. Has it ever occurred to you that I hate the Muggles for a reason? Do you know what is happening right now, Harry, in Bosnia? You've never been there but I was in Albania for a time--there's a war going on where two ethnic groups of muggles you literally could not tell apart are slaughtering each other in the hundreds of thousands. If I told Bellatrix to go kill muggles until she got tired of it she might kill two or three hundred of them. If I told her to do this every day for the rest of her life, she might kill as many muggles as die in one year of their stupid wars. Nothing I could do to them could be worse than allowing them to continue governing themselves. They're animals, Potter. They are animals, and if they had access to our weapons, they would kill billions. We don't even have a word for that many, Potter, the Muggles had to invent one to keep track of their debts. Your aunt and uncle, Harry, are exactly indicative of the Muggle character, they are called 'Strivers,' but what they strive for is the absolute enslavement of themselves. I just want to give it to them. Why fight me? Don't you like House Elves? You can think of it like that, except House Elves don't mass murder each other when you free them. Muggles do."

>>23417632
It's a substitute for an identity

>>23417675
I'm not even a /pol/cel, but this is the most "Jewish" post I've ever seen. You should be embarrassed.

>>23417689
I don't even know what that means. Please explain.

>>23417692
Your post exemplifies the sort of thinking which gets attributed to the caricature of the villainous Jew. The rest you can try and figure out for yourself.

>>23417745
Oh. Well, I don't think Voldemort was Jewish but I'm not an expert.

>>23417675
I don't even remember reading this in HP, i need to re-read the series

>>23418123
That's a joke, Voldemort never explains himself at all. It's actually jarring that he never brings up the obvious parallels between himself and Harry at all.

>>23418314
Ahh. I thought it was pretty good. Harry Potter had some ass villains in it

>>23416788
superheroes shouldn't abuse their power and should protect the weak, simple as

>>23416946
Order Of The Phoenix is one of the best bildungsromans ever in English literature, fight me

>>23417212
Yes, its easier to understand when you speak and read other languages

>>23417632
>No, this book is not literature because it's not complex enough
Its not about complexity. In fact, its quite simple: Theres 0 artistic merit behind HP books. I read them back in the day, I really enjoyed them like I said, and Im aware of how frickin successful it is, probably more than any "real piece of literature" could ever achieve. Still...

It was the 90s, anon. When most men between 70 and 80 (WW2 veterans for the most part) were your typical grandpa. Voldemort is Hitler and wizard blood is a race because its simple to understand

>>23418359
>Order Of The Phoenix is one of the best bildungsromans ever in English literature, fight me
I remember reading a fake "first chapter" on the internet before the release of the book in my country. It was a fanfic that started with Harry reflecting on previous events, then going for a walk, buying an ice-cream, and suddenly being cornered by Voldemort and the death eaters, only to be saved by Dumbledore and the Order, then they start fighting in the middle of the day like niggas in the hood.

>>23417675
>The closest thing to magic these stupid Hylics have ever accomplished and they use it to construct advertisements for Toby Carvery.

kek

>>23417305
It kinda works in the first three books. But then she does fourth and fifth and it just falls apart.

>>23417610
How old are you?

>>23416946
To be completely honest the books are not THAT bad. I mean, for what they are. They are pretty solid young adult reading. There's a lot of young adult books where the "world building" feels forced and cringe.

>>23418609
probably old enough to remember when non-whites combined made up less than 10% of the Brit population i.e. when the first HP book was written

>>23418466
first chapter? I read an entire 300-page fanfic thinking it was the real leaked novel, even describing it to my teachers. there was something called "The Chaos of the Phoenix" that opposed the protagonists, and they wanted to use a Black Phoenix to resurrect Harry's mother but evil.

>>23418314
>I wondered, you see. There are strange likenesses between us, after all. Even you must have noticed. Both half-bloods, orphans, raised by Muggles. Probably the only two Parselmouths to come to Hogwarts since the great Slytherin himself. We even look something alike...but after all, it was merely a lucky chance that saved you from me

Based, but the series needs to be edited to exclude all non white characters.

The current version promotes race mixing

>>23417183
It was the 90s and times were different

>>23417212
Scruton is saying Harry Potter fucking sucks and you are retarded for trying to take it seriously.

>>23416788
>What's the message here?
That Harry is a Mischling and therefore he and his kind are Tolerated at the Ghetto, the Ashkenazi Jews (Pure Blooded) believe they are superior to the other kinds of Jews but they are all Jew and thus need to live in secret from the Gentiles because if they were aware of their actual way of life they'd be hanged in public like they used to back in the Middle Ages.

>>23416788
Something, something, Blairites believe in nothing.

>>23416867
I honestly wouldn't mind if it wasn't so damn inconsistent.
>Wizards are awesome and so much better than muggles.
>Also they understand nothing about muggles and don't adapt their technology out of sheer ignorance.
>This is despite like half of them being former muggles.
>Also they don't rule the world, despite looking down on muggles, because they are worried people would ask them for magical solutions to problems.
>But also the bad guy wants to enslave all muggles to use as... labor?
>Presumably this would involve using magic to keep them under control by making society depended on the use of magic rather than technology.
>All of the uber racists are onboard with this rather than either total muggle genocide or just fucking off and leaving to a pocket dimension somewhere.
Harry Potter is literally about the grand ideological battle for control of the world between side "Can't be asked" and side "Doesn't think".

>>23417745
How? It literally just reads like every far right post ever made.

>>23419272
>inconsistent
it's accidentally more consistent than JKR ever wanted it to be, retard
>Anglos are awesome and so much better than the Global South.
>Also they understand nothing about browns and yellows and don't adapt their technology out of sheer ignorance.
>This is despite like [ten percent] of them being brown and yellow.
>Also they don't rule the world, despite looking down on browns and yellows, because they are worried people would ask them for [gibs]
>But also the West wants to enslave all browns and yellows to use as... [Nike and Apple assemblers]

>Presumably this would involve using magic to keep them under control by making society depended
no, no magic for Muggles

>All of the uber racists are onboard with this rather than either total [brown and yellow] genocide or just fucking off and leaving to a pocket dimension somewhere.
well, the Nordics chose the pocket dimension route, at least until recently

>>23419292
>Also they understand nothing about browns and yellows and don't adapt their technology out of sheer ignorance.
This is kind of where the analogy falls apart. Though I guess the USA does refuse to industrialize again.

>no, no magic for Muggles
I'm not saying muggles would get to use magic, I'm saying SOCIETY would be dependent on magic. Aka: Society could not function without magic to keep it going and that is how they maintain control. Even if it's just as simple as "All soldiers/Cops are wizards and only use their magic to enforce the law".

Otherwise, I'm just not sure what exactly Voldermort wants with the rest of the world. If he wants to rule over them he could just brainjack the president and rule from the shadows like a puppet dictator. Expect, you know, that would require actually understanding human society, which is something they do not want to do. He would basically have to systemically tear down human civilization as it exists and rebuild it to be dependent on magic users as the dominant class.

>>23416800
As far as the helping people thing, you have to remember that most wizards seem to be barely capable of anything beyond what amounts to parlor tricks and saving time on chores. There’s like ten truly powerful wizards in the whole series and they aren’t going to want to be responsible for fixing all the world’s problems themselves.

>>23419373
>you have to remember that most wizards seem to be barely capable of anything beyond what amounts to parlor tricks and saving time on chores
Literally every Wizard has a swiss knife that is also a gun in their pocket.

Yeah, on their one they aren't that powerful but as a society they should be leagues above the rest of the world.

>>23419379
wow so they're Americans?

>>23419308
>This is kind of where the analogy falls apart. Though I guess the USA does refuse to industrialize again.
most people in the West still don't quite understand Indians, Africans, Chinese, and Muslims - four billion of the 7 billion in the world, none of them too friendly to us. we insist that our ways are the right ways and don't even try to understand what makes them tick, let alone copy whatever the good bits of their culture is.
>inb4 they have none
they have enough to make them competitive and less than totally crushed
that's hubris. and that's exactly the problem with the HP pureblood faction.

>If he wants to rule over them he could just brainjack the president and rule from the shadows like a puppet dictator. Expect, you know, that would require actually understanding human society, which is something they do not want to do. He would basically have to systemically tear down human civilization as it exists and rebuild it to be dependent on magic users as the dominant class
well, that's where JKR fucked up, she didn't explicitly make it clear what they want
but that's because she had pretty much lost her grip on the thing by the end, was propped up by Warner Brothers and Bloomsbury, and basically phoned in Deathly Hallows and called it a day

it's strongly implied that what Voldemort mainly wanted is immortality and the freedom to pursue it however he wants, e.g. using dark magic, which he couldn't do while the good guys are in charge. to accomplish that he needed power, which he also wanted for its own sake. to gain power, he needed lackeys and an army, so he recruited the pureblood faction and criminals.

some criminals like Fenrir just wanna fuck shit up. purebloods essentially want lebensraum, the freedom to rob muggles, rape muggles, kill muggles, etc etc. it's a kid's series ultimately so it doesn't go into such specifics.

for that, you'd have to look into the Wanted comic series. in a nutshell:

>>23419479
So, yeah, basically just time "Can't be asked" vs "team stupid".

Do kind of like the idea of Voldemort not really giving a fuck about his cause and just using it to obtain immortality. It's both less and more petty than his followers.

>>23419538
>"Can't be asked" vs "team stupid".
explain a bit on that, I'm not sure I get where you're coming from

Ya'll ever read Harry Potter and the methods of rationality
shit was cash

>>23419543
Basically: The heroes defend the status quo, which comes down to Wizards hiding from muggles because they are too lazy to occasionally help them. While the villains just want to randomly murder people for kicks, even if it risks exposing magic. This is the central ideological conflict of Harry Potter.

>>23417301
Ah yes, David Dees, the guy who got a very treatable form of skin cancer but died because he went down the alternative medicine route.
That being said, I do miss his schizo photoshop art.

>>23417028
Anon, if you don't hate your hobby you aren't pseudointellectual enough.

>>23416800

>>23419638
David Dees nuts ha goteeem

Rowling fucked up with the approach to the globalization of her wizarding world, there was so much potential, and it was all wasted....

>>23416850
Why does he get to write off all of humanity just because his family mistreated him? Don't be retarded

>>23416800
sounds awesome

>>23420015
She can still fix it

>>23416788
Muggle is just a code word for "unconscious animal masses that only exist because we need retarded semi-sentient apes to manipulate machinery built and designed by the higher humans, those capable of creative thought."

>>23416788
I'm a muggle but I can do magic. Suck it, pure-bloods.

>>23418447
>artistic merit

Anon...

>>23422496
Well, that's how I see it anyways.

>>23416788
The unironic moral of the story is that Slytherins and Voldemort were right: wizards are superior to muggles and shouldn't interbreed with them. Upon a reread, I found myself sympathizing with the Slytherins and Voldemort up until the point where the latter became a caricature of evil (probably around book 6 or 7). Slytherins are basically upper class people who value strength and intelligence. Gryffindors are slave moralists who value inclusion and "honor" (but here, honor really just means being nice to other races and classes - the entire feud between Harry and Draco is derived from Draco's dislike of and rudeness toward Ron for being poor and Hermione for being muggle-born).

Essentially, the Harry Potter books are pushing liberal propaganda as if it's self-evidently correct. Race-mixing is good and natural, everyone deserves equal treatment regardless of his abilities and personal qualities, and anyone who notices differences between groups of people is an evil soulless bigot. It was especially funny seeing the evolution of Rowling's depictions of the Death Eaters and Slytherins - they went from people with master morality and strong familial ties to left-wing caricatures of racist nazi bigots. This revelation was the most interesting part of rereading the books. That and Voldemort's origin story were the only things that kept me going past book 3.