/lit/ - Literature

>>23411179
>Videogames take cognitive ability to complete
I guess you haven't seen the literal goldfish that beat pokemon.
I do agree music and videogames are both low brow entertainment but I honestly wouldn't be able to say which one is lower.

>>23411190
Chimps, Shakespeare. And it's a children's game.

>>23411201
>Chimps, Shakespeare.
It takes 3000 hours for 1 fish to beat pokemon. It would take an unimaginably large amount of time for an army of chimps to even write 1 paragraph of shakespeare.
>And it's a children's game.
Yes. That's gaming's largest playerbase.

>>23411179
>the art form that takes no effort to appreciate
Try appreciating European Echoes by Manfred Schoof then.

You have to be white to appreciate the fact that the opposite is true.
https://youtu.be/jvtWqa5pPjk?si=pdwyj0NpXeusuZIq

>>23411179
If we see an art emerging from this direct consciousness of the unity of our inner nature with the nature of the outside world, it is above all else apparent that this art must be subjected to quite other aesthetic laws than every other art. Yet it still seemed repugnant to all aestheticians to have to derive a real art from – as it seemed to them – a purely pathological element; and they were willing to recognise the validity of this art only from the point where its products showed themselves in the detached appearance peculiar to the formations of visual art. From Schopenhauer we successfully learned that its pure element is no longer perceived but deeply and consciously felt in our consciousness as an idea of the world. We understand this idea as a direct revelation of the unity of the Will that is irrefutably represented to our consciousness (starting from the unity of human nature), as unity also with nature itself which we in the same way hear as sound.

>>23411179
was somebody mean to you anon? why are you telling us this on /lit/ out of all places?

yes we are very much superior as readers. no listener of noises will ever come close to our intellectual might and prowess.

>>23411272
Difficult as this is, we believe that we can most surely gain insight into the nature of music as art by considering the work of the inspired musician. In many respects this must be fundamentally different from the work of other artists. We had to recognise that with the latter it had to start from the pure will-free contemplation of objects just as it has to be produced again for the onlooker by the effect of the presented artwork. Such an object which is by pure contemplation to be elevated to Idea does not present itself to the musician; for his music is in itself an idea of the world in which the world directly presents its nature, while in other arts it is presented only through the intermediary of cognition. This can only be understood as the individual Will (reduced to silence in the visual artist by pure contemplation) being awakened in the musician as universal Will and as such being well and truly recognised itself, over and above all contemplation, as self-conscious. Hence the very differing circumstances of the creative musician and the designing artist; hence the fundamentally different effect of music and painting. Here a sense of deep calm; there the highest stimulation of the Will. But this means only that we are here thinking of the Will caught up in the individual as well as in the delusion that it is distinct from the nature of things outside himself, a Will which transcends its boundaries only in pure disinterested contemplation of objects. On the other hand, the Will of the musician at once feels itself united above all bounds of individuality: for hearing opens the gate through which the world comes to him and he to it. This breaking down of all boundaries of appearance must necessarily evoke in the inspired musician an incomparable sense of rapture. In this rapture the Will recognises itself as all-powerful: it does not have silently to refrain from observation but it proclaims itself aloud as a conscious idea of the world. Only one state can surpass his: that of the saint, especially since his circumstances are constant and imperturbable, whereas the musician’s rapturous vision has to alternate with the constantly returning state of his individual consciousness; and we must consider this state the more wretched in that his enthusiasm had raised him higher above all boundaries of individuality. The sufferings with which the musician has to pay for the enthusiasm which so captivates us, may make him seem more worthy of veneration than other artists, with some claim, indeed, to sainthood. For his art truly relates to the complex of the other arts as does religion to the church.

>>23411179
Every poem is a failure to write a whole song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xXjA5Jf6lY

>>23411179
Pop music is crap, but instrumental (art/classical) music is the highest form of art, i.e. the peak of human expression.
>videogames
lol. lmao, even.

>>23411404
> instrumental (art/classical) music is the highest form of art, i.e. the peak of human expression
explain

>>23411179
Music at base is certainly easier to evince a response from the audience because it symbolic sounds which they hear immediately via specialized sensory organs, versus words which are heard then felt then thought and digested and thought again and redigested etc like a cow's stomach, changing character over time.

>>23411224
Stupid comparison. How many hours to develop a video game?

>>23411431
>moving goalposts
You were the first one to compare fish completing pokemon to chimps writing shakespeare, not me. You were the very person to make that 'stupid comparison'. Fucking idiot.

>>23411424
Something about Schopenhauer, music is the embodiment of the Will, not simply a copy of a higher truth, but a direct manifestation of it, etc.

>>23411451
yeah, i still feel like there is something missing from this explanation. like the main way this connects logically at all. isn't the embodiment of will the action and result? or are we speaking about some philosophical/occult meaning of will here?

>>23411468
>isn't the embodiment of will the action and result
No, those are representation

>>23411481
> No, those are representation
ok then what does embodiment mean? i thought it is the physical manifestation of an otherwise abstract thing. a person can be the embodiment of will if they show true power of will for example. how does music embody anything regarding will? do i want to do something after i hear it? like how does the music connect to will at all?

and with music being so ephermal, how can it embody something at all?

>>23411493
>thought it is the physical manifestation of an otherwise abstract thing
Uh, Schopenhauer is working in the vein of western philosophy defined by Spinozan and Kantian values of perception, so the will for him is basically the real part of the universe, and empirical reality is just like your perspective and intuitions trying to represent that to you. As things get closer to the will of the universe, the sublime totality, things get more true, and therefore more beautiful by making mankind's opinions and other errors irrelevant

>>23411179
>he doesn't sing along
>he doesn't dance along
Soulless NPC.

>>23411509
ah ok, i understand a bit better now. thanks for explaining.

>>23411179
>the notes carry you through the emotions you're meant to feel
That is true of all art. And It's the main reason art is considered that in the first place.

>>23411179
Music seems like one of the purest forms of art and expression. It's just playing with frequency and vibration, and there's no real logical reason behind why we enjoy it. That's art in a nutshell.

>>23411179
>complexity is good ! simplicity is bad !
absolute midwit

>>23411179
Music is such a superior art form that even pop schlock written by someone with no musical training can be very beautiful
https://youtu.be/NrgmdOz227I?si=ujTQe6ekgHtL7Nh7
and then from actual genius composers you get works of astounding complexity, depth, and emotive force
https://youtu.be/oFpQP7vDO50?si=WOOyB1j_-3BoH8xG

im diagnosing OP with too much apollo not enough dionysus

>>23411179
I sincerely hope you're a bot. No one is this devoid of taste in arts.

>>23411179
Yeah because since the invention of recording people are no longer that motivated to learn an instrument and play in a string quartet... the only places with music were the church and the pub and weddings and festivities until people actually came up with the idea to play music at the theatre without people singing... and this was after Bach died, may he rest in peace

>>23412968
My point being that we cheapened music and today most of what is said to be music is just an excuse to annoy people... pure evil

>>23412530
/lit/ has been getting Islamic missionaries recently if you're curious where these posts come from.

>>23412987
I hope they are not pakistani uwu

>>23411179
All objectified art is lowly

>>23413032
You (and OP) are lowly, but I shall not even objectify you, because you are too despicable.

>OP learns an instrument
>realizes there's no instant gratification like in video games
>OP stops learning instrument
>goes on lit and makes this post

>>23411438
nta but he didnt just move the goalposts, he made the anaology more accurate. how long would it take for an army of chimps to read shakespeare?

>>23413876
Read the OP again. He turned it from "completing videogames requires cognitive ability" to what I'm assuming is "creating videogames requires cognitive ability"
If he wants to forfeit the idea that videogames take cognitive ability to beat then he should just say it instead of calling the comparison that he made stupid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG5u-Mame0o
I have music repeating in my head basically non stop from the moment I wake up to the moment I fall asleep
Today I had the theme song from Postman Pat in my head for 4 hours
I also like to sing
Music makes me smile and cry

>>23413882
No retard, he was bringing the analogy in line with the second one that was brought up.
Yes it would take the monkeys longer to MAKE shakespeare, but the goldfish didnt fucking program the videogame now did it?

>>23413871
This is very likely.

>>23411509
This makes Schopenhauer's aesthetics sound so arbitrary and abstract, whereas they rely precisely on a physiological understanding of inner subjectivity to justify the preeminence of music among the arts. See Wagner's explanation for it ITT to understand better.

>>23414001
Putting the animals in the position of consumers in both scenarios is an even worse comparison for you guys.
Reading is something that animals can just not do. A chimp being able to write Shakespeare may be possible given an infinite amount of chimps and an infinite amount of time but a chimp reading Shakespeare is just something that would never happen.
There. There's your 1 to 1 comparison that is even worse than the original one.
FAQ
>b-b-b-but what about creating media
The OP is talking about consuming media, not creating media. Like I told you before, read the OP and my previous replies again.
>b-b-b-but creating videogames takes cognitive ability!!! neither a chimp nor a fish can create a videogame!!!
How many times do I have to tell you guys? Read the OP again. I am countering the idea that "gaming takes cognitive ability". Not that "creating videogames takes cognitive ability." You fucking retards. Stop responding to me.
>b-b-but looking at a book is the same as reading it, i could just train a monkey to look at a book
Looking at a book isn't the same as reading it.
>b-b-but apes can "learn" sign language, they could probably consume Shakespeare somehow.
This is an idea that has been sensationalized and if the ape's "sign language" was coming from a human they would be considered retarded and unable to comprehend speech. The ape can learn about ~5 words and just signs for bananas whenever trying to communicate.
>b-b-but if looking at a book and reading a book are different, then the way inputs are sourced from the goldfish means that the fish isn't actually playing the game
True. The fish isn't actually playing the game. That's what makes the claim that "gaming takes cognitive ability" even more pathetic. The fish wasn't even trying to beat the game and still managed to do so.

>>23411179
>t. retard
There really should be some way of euthanizing you slaves as penalty for coming to this board.