/lit/ - Literature

First rule of /clg/:
This is a space dedicated to the discussion and learning of the languages studied for a Classical Philology degree in the US, UK, and its Commonwealth. Kindly keep comments on-topic and about Greek and Latin only. If you would like to discuss other languages with significant to literary traditions, you are free to do so in your own thread.

I weighed my options of all the languages and I went with french sorry caeser

>>23383944
C'est César.

>>23383941
>studied for a Classical Philology degree in the US, UK, and its Commonwealth
i get what you're trying to say but this is just embarassing

>>23383941
OP here, not true

just report the clown

>>23383941
>rule of (4chan thread)
No. There's nothing you can do to stop anyone from doing anything, little man.

Finally leaving my job to go to University, how much Greek am I required to actually know? I have about a year and a bit to become proficient, is that a good enough time? Or should I hire a tutor, too? Anything you bros know would be appreciated.

>>23384049
don't know about proficient, it's a big word especially for ancient languages where lexicon is going to be your main mountain to climb
in around a year you could maybe be reading your Xenophon with some comfort, maybe with a tutor you could be further, but that's up to your effort and abilities
idk about uni

>>23383941
based

A good book for linear B that I've been looking at is J.T. Hooker's introduction to linear B.

>>23379723
Because it's obviously not a classical language, don't play dumb. For all I know maybe by some twist of history it will be in 2000 years but it definitely isn't now.
>>23379900
"Not older than the 1800s" is true (though some elements are taken from older attempts at an international language). "Highly simple construction" (relative to ethnic languages) is true. The rest of this is false.
>>23380171
The Academie formalized the rules out of a chaos of dialects and unstandardized spellings, but the spoken language they were formalizing it on the basis of already existed.
>>23380350
>>23380681
I'm pretty sure this person is not an Esperantist, just a troll.
>>23381086
There's literature in French going back centuries before that. The Chanson de Roland, for example. The earliest known example of a sort of proto-French being the Strasbourg Oaths.

>>23379975
No one is trying to use Odin or Julius Caesar as an excuse to take away my rights.
>>23380355
People not believing in your religion (which, incidentally, originated as a Jewish sect) is not a Jewish conspiracy.

>>23381040
From what I've heard, present-day Greeks can read Koine with about as much difficulty as present-day English people read, say, Chaucer.

>>23384049
You are not required to know any Greek anymore

>>23384698
>>23384672
Please keep discussion on-topic and restricted only to Greek and Latin, as per thread rules. Thanks!

remember, it takes very few seconds to report a post

Does anyone have experience taking a Greek or Latin course outside of a university? Do such things exist? I feel my self teaching is stuck in a rut and I'm too far removed from college to want to go back.

>>23384743

>>23384743
How does it feel knowing that everyone just thinks you're retarded and doesn't obey your playground rules? Was your childhood also like this?

>>23384709
How would that work with all the grammatical differences? Modern Greek doesn't even have the dative, does it? Is the Greek reader supposed to just whip that one out of his ancestral memory or something? The infinitive? (and I figure the same goes for a variety of verb and participle forms, but I don't know enough about modern Greek to say)
Chaucers's English doesn't really have entirely different grammatical categories, does it? I mean, the word order may be a bit different, it may have a few conjugations still common in continental west Germanic languages today, and so on, but that's not that much to intuit. To be honest, I last read Chaucer in high school and I'm Dutch, so I think it would be significantly less difficult for me and maybe not representative of a native English speaker, but still.

>>23384709
Don’t they also learn it in high school?

>>23384865
I think so.

How do I learn Old French?

>>23385047
off topic

>>23385047
there was an Old French anon I think few threads ago, if he doesn't show up you may look at previous threads

Why is there a wannabe janitor trying to police what people talk about in a 4chan thread lmao

子之生哀

>>23385342
Sorry, but Chinese Studies is a separate field from Classical Philology. Kindly move discussion of it elsewhere!

What’s a comprehensive book on influence of Latin and Greek on other languages; mostly modern.

>>23385047
I usually recommend E. Einhorn's textbook. It doesn't assume any prior knowledge of modern French, though obviously that helps with vocabulary, like in my case.
It's a short course (16 chapters, not all of them essential), and once you're done I recommend diving straight into reading: >>23341300
If you don't speak French or another Romance language, you will likely need to rely on bilingual editions at first.

Can the complaining faggots neck themselves? That would be convenient thanks, You won't be missed. I'd rather 10 Classical Chinese posters than you stinking assholes.
In other news, I was looking into the Oedipus Rex and saw that the oft-quoted ὕβρις φυτευει τυραννίν (873) (Hubris begets the tyrant) is conjectured by several scholars to really be ὕβριν φυτευει τυραννις on the basis that the former doesn't make sense for Sophocles. On the other hand, all of the manuscripts read the former, so I find it very unlikely that the entire manuscript tradition got it wrong until a Blaydes "fixed" it

>>23385415
irrumator

>>23385578
>all of the manuscripts read the former, so I find it very unlikely that the entire manuscript tradition got it wrong
I mean I'm no expert but isn't it enough for a misspelling to have happened in the oldest source manuscript to propagate? particularly of course if it's ambiguous and is not grammatically wrong like in this case

Threadly reminder to practice your TL instead of whining on a Milesian tentmaking forum about people who discuss different TLs.

What texts are everybody working with? I'm doing a bit of work on the Aeneid, it's my go-to for Latin practice when I don't have something else in mind.

>>23386092
I'm working on Caesar at the moment. Almost done with book one.

>>23386092
The Jewish War, to learn the origin story

>>23386162
That's Josephus, ain't it? I've always wondered, does he use Hebraisms in his Greek?

>>23385415
This is not a thread about classical languages in the context of traditional European classical studies, this is a thread named /classical languages general/, and there is a clear definition of what 'classical' means as related to the entire world:
>A classical language is any language with an independent literary tradition and a large body of ancient written literature.
The matter is clear and the discussion - closed.

>>23387355

interesting comment by Plutarch, what school of philosophy or religion would this correspond to?

>>23387556
>anyone who disagrees with me is le jew!
>>>/pol/

>>23387812
>anyone who disagrees with me is le /pol/
>>>/reddit/

>>23385342
he seems to not realize he's really being very cringe. curious

>>23387815
>I define myself as the linear antithesis of this pathetic website group-think!
You basically ARE reddit. You're just negative reddit. Good luck ever getting through a thread on this website without mentioning either trannies or jews. You're basically an automaton.

>>23387837
You got it all wrong, you think anons here constantly look at reddit to do the opposite, when anons are just automatically like that without looking at that website. It is the people running reddit who deliberately program its users to opposite of the λογος

>>23385457
Not sure if there is a comprehensive overview in one book but you may want to start your search with Latinus Scientificus. The Composition of Scientific Words is about 900 pages and goes into this process.

>>23383930
hello, classics anons, I'm popping in from another general thread to ask - why are the links given here with "dot" instead of the whole link, is this bannable on lit?

>>23388279
because of the anti-spam system, which for some reason really hates certain links and won't let you open the thread

>>23384732
>no longer be required to learn Greek or Latin
>events around race that occurred last summer

I fucking hate this God damn world

>>23387848
I think anons imitate other anons, mostly. It is just that the crude shared identity that leads anons to imitate other anons defines itself perfectly in opposition to the foil, which has been reddit for very long now (once, tumblr was probably the main one, but even then there was reddit. Also, 9gag). You can't help but notice, if you're a more detached and reflecting sort of individual, that the frog-husks of this place primarily simply take the contrarian position -- in fact, they "start out" from it, so to speak. I feel like this was different before, not essentially but simply in the degree to which deviation was commonplace, i.e. the common poster's orthodoxy was broader. It is not a very profound observation to state that the creativity of 4chan in general has been on the decline for a very long time now. It is very obvious. I think it's simply the reputation of the place that attracted people who mostly just wanted to feel like they belonged to it, which has led to this genuinely braindead, smug imitation by retards who feel safe in the knowledge that they're the norm here, so that they get to lob their little stereotyped responses and feel right all the time.
Of course, 4chan has always had the strong tribal identity, and that's fine -- in fact, it was fun -- but then it was quite a bit more creative and dynamic back then.
I'm also just not fifteen anymore. Some people seem to stay fifteen into their thirties.

>>23384732
Absolutely cringe. Universities are worthless

>>23388680
Off topic

>>23383930
One of my profs said he would give me a private vergil tutorial if I can learn enough latin by fall. I got the PDF for Learn to Read Latin by Keller and Russell and LLPSI. if I finish the two I'm going to read Genesis, Epitome Historyiae Sacrae, Sermones Romani, and Orberg's De Bello Gallico.

When I memorize paradigms, am I supposed to remember them forever... or is it sufficient to just understand the text?

>>23388876
I find that the best way to memorize paradigms is with songs that list them out, so that you can quickly recite them to yourself if you come across a form that you don't immediately recognize. Once you memorize them, they'll eventually become second nature and you won't have to think about it too much, but having a quick way to remember them is always helpful.

Also, while I certainly laud your ambition, are you trying to get to Virgil level proficiency within three months? That's a hell of an incline for someone first starting Latin, and while it's certainly plausible, Virgil is not exactly the easiest author to work with. If you want to be there by fall, you're gonna need to be very dedicated.

>>23388932
Where can you hear songs of the declensions?

>>23388932
I guess its a pretty lofty goal. But i want that sweet sweet one-on-one time with a virgil expert.

>>23388947
I also have experience with MSA. so Im used to inflected languages.

>>23388953
Sorry, that is not a classical language. Please stay on-topic!

>>23388937
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLwcxlIYcSw
This one is great for the first declension, it's still my go-to. The other declensions might stick with you or not from his song, but generally you can find a number of them on Youtube if you just look up x declension Latin song.

>>23388947
Hey, hopefully you can do it. I'm of the opinion that the Aeneid is the best thing ever written, and I absolutely love translating it and learning more about it. Just be careful not to bite off more than you can chew. Also pay no mind to the faggot, any basic understanding of how inflections form will be helpful, though admittedly Latin's case system is a bit more extensive than Arabic's

>>23383930
1. Why did we started to think that /η/ was [ɛ:] instead of Erasmian [æ:] if we know it diverged from [ä:] especially? I recall there was a good passage about it on Wiki but can't find it anymore.
2. Isn't there a second part of Logos like Roma Aeterna for LLPSI? What to do next then? Just read? Try Athenaze?

>>23386092
Still going through Seneca's letters. Really starting to feel more confident.

inpoot kiddies be like is there a simplified version of simplified texts?

My parents gave me a Latin textbook for my birthday, I told those motherfuckers I wanted to learn Russian because I love Russian literature and instead they bought me a book on an entirely different language, I’m so fucking pissed. But anyway, should I try to learn this shit? That thought never crossed my mind until now, it just feels like there isn’t much interesting stuff in Latin literature-wise.

>>23389064
>instead of Erasmian [æ:]
I thought Erasmian too was [ε:]
I think Allen provides reasonable evidence for being in the sort of middle plateau between i and a together with ει with the latter its closer variant, æ makes sense maybe at an early stage as it began its divergence

>>23389234
nah throw it in the trash, and learn Russian. Follow your dreams

>>23389234
You're not gonna learn a language without tonnes of motivation. Stick to Russian.

>>23387722
Either Orphism, Pythagoras, or Plato

>>23389465
Pythagoras and Plato were men, not schools.

>>23389465
interesting, what caught my attention was the mention of ἥρως as something between man and δαίμων in this kind of ascent, the latter which I guess by this time already meant something different from θεός at least for Plutarch

>>23389234
Sorry your parents wanted you to have a classical education for your 12th, Tommy. Although Russian still is pretty classy in general to learn.

>>23389041
>needing songs for the first declension
Good Lord
This is why gatekeeping is important. If you need a song to remember declensions how are you going to learn various uses of subjunctives? An opera?
Songs are how I would teach children, as in early-elementary school age kids. As an adult or teenager or even 10 year old using them is embarrassing.
Much better to learn them through context or practice sentences. Puellam amo - I love a girl, got it. No need to invite Barney for a singalong.

>>23389064
How so if the Romans transcribed it with E. [αι] is rather what got transcribed as ae, which coincidentally or not, also became monophthongized (e.g. "Caesar").

>>23387848
Absolutely this. People didn't become Nazi chuds because of 4chan, this is just the only place that doesn't actively remove those ideas so the likeminded gravitate towards it

>>23389970
>the Romans transcribed it
Isn't it too late though? Wasn't most of their interactions in the times of Koine?
>>23389247
>Erasmian too was [ε:]
Wiki claims he said it was like in a language where it's [æ].
>for being in the sort of middle plateau between i and a
The actual /ε/ is already placed there though.

>>23389234
you should be more grateful

>>23390159
Tbh it's not clear which Erasmiann pronunciation is being referred to here either.

>>23390159
It sounds like for such a thing to be true that would have to mean that the sounds of epsilon and heta roughly switched places with each other.

>>23383941
based

>>23384732
That doesn't make any sense. Most black immigrants here are bilingual or more. It's the Indians and Latinxers that don't learn English, so did some brown uprising take place that I never heard about? Sometimes, I think they just do stuff like this to stir the pot.

Is there any way of getting original Greek or Latin texts without spending shitloads? I'm not spending $30 on a single book of the Iliad. Should I just get an e-reader and pirate the books instead?

>>23390769
It's most likely to accommodate basketball Americans, who can only yet barely speak English.

>>23390797
You should pirate stuff even if you could afford paying.

>>23390799
No, I don't think so. I think its just to antagonize the traditional male. The racism is pure pretense.

all I'm gonna say is that no universities have started taking on classical Chinese teachers who can't read Zhuangzi or Sanskrit teachers who couldn't translate the vedas

your move westerners

>>23390744
I meant the Erasmian of Erasmus, the very original pronunciation of him. Like, in that exact case it sounds to be more reliable than the modern consensus so I wonder for what reason the latter was conducted.
>>23390753
Why exactly?

>>23390797
You can basically read online anything these days. Latin and all. Lots without pirating too. I read a lot with the Gutenberg Project, although I don’t know how much Latin it has.

>>23388017
Thanks. I know more of the Scientific and Philosophical terms, but this should be more in depth than the basics or intermediate knowledge. Should also just search for more Latin in/and comparative Linguistics in conjunction also for general influence beyond technical or conceptual influence.

>>23390876
Do you have any source for this supposed pronunciation?

>Why exactly.
[æ] and [ε] are pretty similar with latter attested as having resulted from monophthongization of diphthongs such as [ae] and [αι]. So if epislon is then assumed to have been pronounced /e/, this means that the two vowels switched their sounds with each other with epsilon becoming /ε/, and heta /e:/.

>>23384732
Reminder there are people in this very thread who attend such Institutions.

>>23390159
>The actual /ε/ is already placed there though.
sure, but there's space for both, and some arguments are given for the relative positioning of each, ι < ει < η < α
one of them is I guess kinda strong, in that yes, η represented in the Attic-Ionic family on one hand a sound shifted from ᾱ, but not only that one, and the word μήτηρ gives you a hint, in that both in Doric or Latin you have māter, the second one being a proper /e/ sound supposedly even in the PIE mother tongue, which before the Ionic alphabet was represented with the same "E" symbol used also for the other /e/ sound represented by ε, so that should hint it wasn't that close to /a/ as æ

>>23390797
Pirate
Look in the Mega. Look in the Links section of the Mega
Barring that used book stores are your friends. Check for them around universities with good Classics departments. I have several dozen OCT's bought at discount prices. Abebooks can be good as well, look for older editions. "Reading Copy" is perfect, usually cheap and fully functional.
Avoid Print-on-Demand crap, it is almost never worth your time.

>>23390805
it's not even piracy. It's all public domain, and most of the texts are just straight up on Perseus. Their database is even on github.

>>23390797
If you want a physical copy then yeah you're gonna be spending a shitload

Here's PDF's of all the Loeb editions that are public domain
https://ryanfb.xyz/loebolus/

Roma Aeterna is actually good so far and I fucking hate LLPSI.

>his Greek tutor hasn't initiated him into the Medean ejaculate Mystery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JkvcaKetZ0

>>23391082
>any source
Here:
>In order to overcome that problem, Erasmus drew upon his knowledge of the sound repertoires of contemporary living languages, for instance likening his reconstructed η to Scots a ([æ]), his reconstructed ου to Dutch ou ([oʊ]), and his reconstructed οι to French oi (at that time pronounced [oJ]).
I also remember something else regarding [æ] there but can't find it.
>>23391259
Thanks, it makes it clear.
>ει
Are we sure the monophthonigzation of this one and as well as of /ου/ occured already in the classic times?

>lateo
>λάθω (Doric)
>λανθάνω (nasal infixed Attic)
sparta should have won

>>23391702
Where are you at?

>>23392399
>Are we sure the monophthonigzation of this one and as well as of /ου/ occured already in the classic times?
apparently so, at least for ει, supposedly some early examples go back even to earlier than the classical period when it became a regular feature, so by the the beginning of the classical you probably already had this kind of convergence, though who knows maybe more learned conservative speakers kept maintaining the difference

>>23391864
>those tattoos
do graecophiloids really...?

Can anyone recommend Latin-learning books & resources, for Portuguese speakers?

>>23394415
familia romana

>>23394415
"Latim do Zero a Vergilio em 50 lições", Frederico Lourenço.
A lot of portuguese (PT-PT) translations of Latin/ Greek are from him.
You probably should get the grammar book he made and something like LLPSI as well (the grammar book is supposed to be used in connexion with the textbook but I atleast didn't resort very often to it after the intro stuff).
You can easily get pirated versions of everything if don't want physical versions.

>>23394538
*if you don't want
Also I seem to have forgotten the existence of commas while I wrote the last post

>>23384757
>Do such things exist?
catherineproject.org
Don't know if it's any good; I've been on the fence about signing up myself.

>>23392661
but the n here is more conservative (and therefore based)

>>23394450
>familia romana
A great recommendation, from what I hear. Pity that it's a bit on the expensive side.
>>23394538
I do prefer physical versions if I'm capable, though I'll never reject digital resources.
>Latim do Zero
Hmm, I'll definitely get it; it also gives me confidence to read that he has plenty of translating input. I may get his other book on grammar, but likely later on.
>LLPSI
Continuing from what I'd said at the beginning: I certainly do not doubt their fame and efficiency to teach, however I doubt I could find pirated copies in Portuguese; and physical copies are a tad pricey. Nevertheless, I'll still seek out for their English pdfs.
>I seem to have forgotten the existence of commas while I wrote the last post
Happens to the best of us lol

Thank you both!

Whilst looking on my own, I also stumbled on picrel. Might get it as well, if I think I'll need it.

>>23392399
I wonder if ει was used as a means to convey stress in certain ways in the absence of accent marks.

>>23394631
shit, forgot pic

>>23394631
LLPSI is entirely in Latin, no other languages. That is its selling point.
Double up with another textbook in Hue

>>23394650
Oh. It is?
Wow, I got fooled; I actually had no idea.
>another textbook in Hue
Uuh... I speak proper Portuguese; not that Hue dialect.

>>23394631
LLPSI doesn't have english nor portuguese versions, it's all in Latin like the other anon said (this may seem daunting but the book is well crafted and is easy to follow, even at the beginning).
You can find both parts of LLPSI floating around in pirated version with good quality, in colour and everything. Check anna's archive or libgen and see the best quality ones

>>23394679
check the mega, see if you like ti then get a physical if need be

>>23394679
About the Portuguese comment, I'm of course kidding.
>>23394686
>>23394697
Well, I'll definitely check it out then. Thanks for clarifying.

Ok we can go back to the "what's a classical language" argument now I prefer it to greek phonology

>>23395292
sorry bitch boy. You ARE going to learn your vowel chart and you ARE going to like it.

>>23395292
That argument is settled and this thread is clearly claimed for Greek and Latin only. Now study more.

Easy(but non-Attic) Greek translation challenge.

>>23395437
Wardum atta

>>23388876
both in Latin and Greek I never spent too much time to memorize them as a bulk but rather let them get absorbed with time by looking them up every time while reading and reading and reading until they stick

>>23396320
Same.
When I started Latin 5 years ago, I fell for the Dowling Method meme. I followed it diligently for noun and adjective declensions, then gave up once I saw how many verb forms I had to write down lol. As for Greek, I never bothered writing down any paradigms—you really do learn them through exposure alone.

>>23392661
Someday, I'll know enough to be as nitpicky as you.

>>23395446
>οικος
Yogurt spotted.
>δαμοκρατεομεναν
Something about democracy?
>και
>και
And...
And...

How'd I do, boss?

What's the difference between Modern Hebrew and Biblical Hebrew? If I was to speak BH, would I be understood?

>>23397197
Modern Hebrew has loads if Greek and Arabic influence. I don’t know estimates of this influence, but Arabic especially from what I know.

>>23397197
>>23397288
Off-topic

>>23397347
discussion of which languages are on- or off-topic has now been declared off-topic.

>>23397396
Nice try kike

>>23395437
You're tempting me to start posting about classical Chinese despite not knowing the language and not learning it

>>23397347
Uh-huh. Sure.

>>23397347
gugga est homo.

>>23397011
>Something about democracy?
THAT'S IT YOU GOT IT

>>23397406
You are welcome to do so in your own thread!

רִבִּי חִזְקִיָּה פָּתַח, כְּתִיב, (שיר השירים ב׳:ב׳) (פנחס רלג, ופ' תשא קפט) כְּשׁוֹשַׁנָּה בֵּין הַחוֹחִים. מָאן שׁוֹשַׁנָּה, דָּא כְּנֶסֶת יִשְׂרָאֵל. (בגין דאית שושנה ואית שושנה), מַה שּׁוֹשַׁנָּה דְּאִיהִי בֵּין הַחוֹחִים אִית בַּהּ סוּמָק וְחִוָּר, אוּף כְּנֶסֶת יִשְׂרָאֵל אִית בַּהּ דִּין וְרַחֲמֵי. מַה שּׁוֹשַׁנָּה אִית בַּהּ תְּלֵיסַר עָלִין, אוּף כְּנֶסֶת יִשְׂרָאֵל אִית בַּהּ תְּלֵיסַר מְכִילָן דְּרַחֲמֵי דְּסַחֲרִין לַהּ מִכָּל סִטְרָהָא. אוּף אֱלהִים דְּהָכָא (נשא דף קלא ב, וקלח, וקמז) (שמות קפו א) מִשַׁעְתָּא דְּאִדְכַּר אַפִּיק תְּלֵיסַר תֵּיבִין לְסַחֲרָא לִכְנְסֶת יִשְׂרָאֵל וּלְנַטְרָא לַהּ.
These Kabbalists are straight fucked in the head. Is this the outlet of schizophrenia before the internet?

>>23397866
Why do you eat baby foreskins

>>23397850
You have no thread, same as I.

>>23397866
Thanks for posting something about a language other than Latin or Greek, you get bonus points for bothering the thread goblin.

For LLPSI should one read it like an actual book and just get through it all rather quickly or should you actually slow down and make an effort and figure out what is going on with the grammar and vocabulary?

>>23398562
If you don't slow down and make an effort to figure out what is going on, pretty soon you will not be able to read it like a book.

>>23397197
Modern Hebrew has a lot of new vocabulary because it deals with modern topics, and its sentence structure and grammar reflects a more English/Germanic influence than Biblical Hebrew. For a simple example, Modern Hebrew is SVO, whereas Biblical was VSO. There are other differences, like how prepositions are formed, but that's a good example that comes to mind. They're certainly related languages, but that comes out moreso in the vocabulary than the grammar. Outside of new terms formulated for living in the modern era, many modern Hebrew terms come from Biblical Hebrew. The struggle with that, of course, is that Biblical Hebrew has a relatively small corpus of words, I think somewhere in the realm of 9,000 roots are attested throughout the entirety of the Bible, which is our only access to the language. Point being, you would be more understood in Israel speaking Biblical Hebrew than if you went and spoke English, but they're definitely different languages. At the same time, if you wanted to learn both, having an understanding of one will certainly help to understand the other.

>>23397288
How much Arabic influence? My understanding was just that they're both Semitic and thus closely related, but I'm also not as familiar with the linguistic history of Modern Hebrew as I am with Biblical Hebrew

>>23397866
Your kind are not welcome here

>>23398581
Soap

>come to thread for Greek and Latin
>it's back and forthing about Hebrew (a medieval language)

ew

>>23397866
Damn, reading Hebrew text on a computer is not something I enjoy doing. Also, is this Rabbinic Hebrew or Biblical? I've never seen Rabbinic Hebrew and don't know how different it is from Biblical, but your talk of Kabbalah makes me think Rabbinic

>>23398611
you are way too obvious and frankly pathetic

Stop feeding the retard (you)s

>>23398611
Hebrew is even more recent than that.

>>23398629
I had to think through what you meant but you're basically right. Modern Hebrew stems from the post-modern state of Israel. In that sense yes definitely.

>>23398629
They literally changed from Yiddish because too many people understood them. Nobody is more xenophobic or exclusionary

>>23398562
obviously the second lol, it's its purpose, they didn't just felt like writing some story

>>23392661
Didn't Sparta win?

Is it possible to create a language that combines greek, latin, norse and old english? I understand modern English is fairly close to that, maybe without the french influence?

test

>>23399598
>norse and old English
Western but off topic. Would love to see discussion about these languages in their own thread!

It's quite amazing how similar Sanskrit is to Ancient Greek. It just makes me want to study it more.

>>23399598
Perhaps the dumbest post ever made in this general, congratulations

>>23399598
You would need to include French and German for a real inclusive lead up to Modern/Medieval English. Maybe even Welsh, Irish and Scottish Gaelic,Spanish and Italian too.

Livius Andronicus lived roughly 280-204 BC and translated Homer into Saturnian. Cato the Elder reports that he was a young man when Andronicus died. Cato the Elder (or the Censor) lived long enough to bitch about the envoy of three Greek philosophers from Athens in 155. For much of his life Cato bitched about Greek influence, but by the end of his life he was studying Greek and he closely used Greek rhetorical models for his own rhetoric.

Plautus was a generation younger than Andronicus and died around 180. Terence might have been born around the time Plautus died. Original playwrights of the Greek type were a relatively short-lived phenomenon in Roman society, as Roman culture bifurcated between high literary culture written by and for elites and low culture revolving around spectacles and combats.

Although it's clear that there were sporadic elite Roman contacts with Greek city states (especially Sicilian ones) from the early 3rd century at least, Greek influence only really exploded in Rome from the early 2nd century BC on, as Romans conquered or sacked Greek states and brought back massive libraries and art collections, as well as Greek slaves and hostages who could teach Hellenic culture. The Bacchanalia were en vogue in Italy by the 180s, enough to be banned. Greek philosophers trickled in to give lectures and speeches around this time too, and "vulgar" Epicureans quickly developed a bad reputation (being banned at least once around 160), while Stoics and some quasi-Stoic, late Peripatetic and late Academic eclectics began to interest Roman aristocrats. A major gathering point for these influences was the circle around Scipio Aemelianus, a philhellenist influenced by his association with Polybius as a result of the taking of Achaean hostages by Rome.

A Greek-style "grammatical" and "rhetorical" education also began to crystallize in this period in Rome. This is the distant origin of the trivium and quadrivium, emerging also from Roman "encyclopedic" culture (Cato, Varro). A large part of this was simply the translation of Greek texts into Latin so that there would be enough for Roman pupils to actually work with. By Cicero's day, it was also fashionable for young men to study in Athens while quite young if they could afford it. Over time, an education in Greek philosophy, after the more basic education in letters, grammar, and rhetoric, became the Roman equivalent of a university education.

The Romans in Cicero's and Livy's days seem to have regarded the Romans of Andronicus' day roughly how we regard the Elizabethans (so, maybe double the distance in time and consciousness), and anything 4th century or earlier as basically a dark age, like the Middle Ages if they were much much more poorly attested textually. The whole first five books of Livy's History are written in continuous and openly voiced doubt.

>>23399671
Very cool but off-topic! Perhaps you could make your own Sanskrit thread to discuss it.

>>23399832
sorry untouchable, you will speak the real aryan language and you will like it. And more importantly, te cinnaedum esse arbitror.

I've been studying Ancient Greek for 18 days now, and I don't know much. How long did it take those of you who are able to read—say, Homer or Aeschylus, to be able to read them fluidly with comprehension? I like to have targets in mind.

>>23399905
You could get to reading Homer with a dictionary with relative ease within a year. Aeschylus on the other hand is the sort of author that my professor considered torture for undergraduates (the choral odes are just plain hard in tragedy, and he takes it up to 11). You're only reading him with fluidity as an expert.

>>23399931
>11 years for Aeschylus
Zoinks! Uh, okay; who is a more medium target with good material?

I know Anki cards were discussed a bit in the last thread, but does anyone know any good free alternatives to Anki? I don't want to add another subscription service...

>>23400260
Anki is free, stupid frog! Stop using an iPhone.

>>23400449
No, it's not. They ask for money, and I don't use an iPhone, you retard. Fuck off if you don't have answers. Dumb tranny.

>>23400532
Could you show me where they ask for money? Anki itself is free, I used it for years.

>>23399944
I did not mean 11 years. I'm 3 years into Greek and I can struggle through him. I'm just saying that he's going to be difficult even for an advanced reader.

>>23399905
check out geoffrey steadman's site for homer commentaries which help you overcome the problem of his vocabulary. the iliad and odyssey are easier than most classical prose works so it shouldn't take too long to start reading them with confidence.

>>23399671
The verb system really is fundamentally different, at least for Classical Sanskrit; there's no true distinction between the past tenses (imperfect, perfect and aorist) and differences of aspect are generally denoted by means of periphrastic participle constructions (khādan āsti "he sits eating", i.e. he keeps eating, makes a habit out of eating; a perfect aspect is often expressed with tişțhati, "to stand", like e.g. śītabhūtas tişțhati "cold-being he stands"). In general, the language leans to an extreme degree on verbal participles in place of the finite verb, not just in indirect constructions or supplementary-wise like Greek does. The extreme versatility of compounds and noun derivation coupled with the heavy usage of participles means that Sanskrit is extremely noun/nominal dominant where Greek is very verb dominant (like compare how Greek even uses verbs to say things we would express through nouns 100% of the time, like βασιλεύειν "to king-ize" and such, while Sanskrit would say something like rājyam karitum "to do king-hood", and in such a way Sanskrit generally uses noun or participle constructions where we would generally use finite verbs).

Furthermore, the lack of articles in Sanskrit and the paucity of cases in Greek, where the dative unites three Sanskrit cases (dative, instrumentative and locative) and the genitive two Sanskrit cases (genitive, ablative) means the structure of sentences and the experience of reading is very different. Sanskrit is much more straightforward and involves much less ambiguity (outside of compounds) than Greek does.

To be honest I think you mostly just mean that Sanskrit is very similar to Greek in conjugation, which is true, except that it's much more regular and less fussy, which will be an extreme breath of fresh air if you ever do get into it, especially the vowel gradation.

>>23400756
Wow! That's a lot of effort for an off-topic post. Please remember to post it where it belongs next time.

>>23400762
rope
Nobody's falling for what you're trying to do, everyone knows you're a troll

Si Latine loquerer Italicis hodiernis, sine dubio non intelleger, etsi lingua Italica hodierna a lingua Latina exorta est. Homo calvus ille experimentum fecit in quo Italicis Latine loquutus erat. Iocosum enim fuit.
Ego autem illi simile experimentum facere conatus sum, ut pelliculam in TuTubulum inferre possem et multam pecuniam facerem. Non autem Latine, nam nolo aemulus hominis calvi videri, sed Sanscrite.
Itaque telephonice cum viro Indico quodam locutus sum. Equidem Sanscrite "salve, ut vales?" dixi; ille autem "BENCHOD" clamavit iratissime. Antequam aliquid dicerem, denuo "DO NOT REDEEM" clamavit ille.
Tunc perterritus telephonum solvi. Talia experimenta denuo non faciam.

>>23399847
>>23400794
Just ignore him, he'll give up eventually if he doesn't get any (You)s.

>>23400532
Anki is free. There are a lot of fake apps that copied anki and charge for it though. The real one is free (unless you're on iPhone).

>>23400260
I use Knowt

>>23401073
rusum conare voce vetere anglica fretus, quam navissime indicia praebens quasi te divem esse immo autem expertem rerum computatoriarum et auxilio egentem

>>23399905
as others have said Homer's biggest difficulty is the lexicon, otherwise even the odd archaic features are absorbed relatively quickly, you will start slower but eventually be able to read even good portions alone(and hopefully in meter otherwise you are missing much of the fun), not just due to repetitive formulas but also digesting the bulk of his poetic vocabulary, though oddball terms are always going to pop out every now and then, which is why re-reading it is always the most enjoyable part
I started I think a couple of years after beginning with Attic though I took my time, some even suggest you can start straight up with Homeric Greek

>>23400756
Interesting. I'm still a complete baby in Sanskrit at the moment (I've been practicing the devanagari but haven't had as much time as I'd like to properly read by sight yet). And you are right in the conjugation part being the basis of comparison (the first thing that motivated me was a section in Smyth comparing φημί in Doric to bhati. I think that the way that the dual has some duplicated forms is also a little similar (nom = acc = voc, although the extra cases make it so that gen =/= dat, but instead abl = dat = Instr and gen = loc for the a stems). Good to know though that things are actually more complicated once you get into the language.

>>23400532
>They ask for money
Oh no, asking? For money? Guess it's all over, you have no choice besides paying or not using it. If only there were another option...

>>23402892
Anki is literally gpl. The only way to pirate it would be to use it in a closed source product. It is completely free.

>>23399598
Yes,but I would drop the ablative, middle voice, aorist, and dual number. The verbs in Greek and Norse are already divided along the lines of strong and weak or thematic and athematic. The six tenses plus infinitive works fine but you could reduce those.

>>23403061
but those are all very cool features.

>>23402892
They only let you study 50 cards without paying you fucking dilettante retard. Kys already.

>>23401313
No, it's not. They only let you study 50 cards per day without a subscription service. I don't know what you tards are smoking.

>>23401621
Thanks.

>>23400567
No, I can't because why the fuck would I waste my time on you? I barely know you and already I wish your parents had died in a car crash while you were in the womb.

>>23403135
https://apps.ankiweb.net/

read nigga

>>23400702
Oh, ok. Thanks. Three years is perfectly reasonable.

>>23400711
>>23402736
Awesome. Thank you both. I was actually reading him today, but more just to practice reading. I barely understood anything, lol.

>>23403140
Why the fuck would I read that, you STUPID MOTHERFUCKER, when I have the app on my very phone, used it today, and got asked for money JUST LIKE YESTERDAY? KYS, you arrogant shiteating fuck.

>>23403134
Welp, looks like you have no options besides paying full price + DLC + subscriptions + tip
Would that there were some other way...

>>23403144
you have the wrong app dude. Unless you're an itoddler in which case I have no sympathy.

>>23403140
If you weren't such a TOXIC WASTE OF HUMAN LIFE you would have simply recced an alternative like I asked or not answered at all. (You) are the reason this site is a steaming pile of shit. I literally hope you die soon.

>>23403145
WRONG

I will find an alternative. YOU GIANT FUCKING FAGGOT RETARD MORON. I can't even imagine how shit your life must be to have continued this stupid conversation pointlessly for so long. KYS.

>>23403142
So long as you have a good dictionary, Homer will be a breeze once you get into the rhythm.

>>23403151
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ichi2.anki

You are a fucking retard. There aren't even in-app purchases. Maybe do some research before blowing up.

Why did they stop teaching Latin when most people, especially Christians and history buffs, want to learn Latin a bit in the general public.

>>23403571
It was only ever taught because it was seen as valuable for intellectual and moral development
These days a subject needs to demonstrate how it'll help students get into a university or a high paying job if it is to be taught

>>23397866
What does this say? My Hebrew isnt advanced yet.

>>23403599
According to Sefaria dot org:
>Rabbi Hizkiyah opened, “It is written, as a rose among thorns.” (Song of Songs 2:2) What is the Rose? It is the Congregation of Israel. Because there is a rose, and there is a Rose. Just as the rose among the thorns is tinged with red and white, so is the Congregation of Israel affected by the qualities of Judgment and Mercy. Just as a rose has thirteen petals, the Assembly of Israel is surrounded on all sides by the thirteen attributes of Mercy. Thus, between the first mentions of the name

>>23403631
>(cont.) name Elohim, [in the Torah] these [thirteen] words surround and guard the Congregation of Israel

>>23403631
>>23403634
Nice postmodern language kike

>>23403139
Most sane frogposter. Why even attempt to learn Latin if you can't even manage to download a free app? Kek, I just wanted to help you.

>tfw you will never be Hadrian at the Eleusinian Festival watching your 14 year old twink boyfriend get inducted into your favorite cult
why even live

>>23403631
Judaism is unironically so badass. Blows every other westoid religion out of the water.

>>23404518
Soap

>>23403683
I'm learning Greek, retard.

>>23403166
Kindly, KYS.

>>23403158
Thanks anon. I found a cool app called, "Ancient Greek Library." It has numerous texts by numerous authors and translations. It even tells you who did the translation. You can click on individual words and get definitions, or swipe to look at the whole translation. It's not perfect and it doesn't have everyone—Sappho is missing, for instance, but it's been useful for me.

Now I need a keyboard for Ancient Greek. My Greek keyboard doesn't have an option for circumflexes and some of the other accent marks.

>>23405542
you'd probably screw up the keyboard too and end up bricking your system with how technologically incompetent you are. But there are several keyboards floating around and if all else fails there's the website https://www.lexilogos.com/keyboard/greek_ancient.htm

What latin classics can I read to prove the jews are a parasite race and not who they say they are?

>>23405609
Eat shit. Just stop talking to me already.

>>23405617
>>/pol/
Go back, you PARASITE CANCER.

>>23405770
Did the site cost money?

Should I finish reading the bible before I learn classical church languages?

>>23405783
Give yourself fully to the church before you accomplish anything

>>23405772
Can't tell if serious but if you are then soap

Quid me, etsi valeam, parare carmen
Fescenninicolæ jubes Diones,
Inter crinigeras situm catervas,
Et Germanica verba sustinentem,
Laudantem tetrico subinde vultu,
Quod Burgundio cantat esculentus,
Infundens acido comam butyro?

>>23405770
I won't because you're an annoying faggot who can't even read English.

>>23406323
More cope from the seething tranny. I have higher marks in English than the overwhelming majority of speakers. I read Middle English and Shakespeare for fun. I read poetry which would stump most quite easily.

I was reading Greek just a while ago. I read about a page or so and was surprised to find I am already understanding some sentences in a similar fashion as to when I began Japanese many years ago.

Now, (You) and >>23405799 can fuck right off to Hell already. You don't know me, you never will, and your brainless conceptions of who I am will never make shackles for anyone, but yourselves.

>>23406467
yet you can't read a fucking webpage.

>>23406479
Keep seething, tranny.

>>23406467
kek
a real /lit/ badass over here
you forgot to mention your GPA and IQ

>>23406577
I could, but you wouldn't believe me, so what's the point? And you're right. I am an awesome guy.

>>23405783
Gothic and Old Church Slavonic, yes. No to Latin.

Latin Teacher here. Ask me anything. Will get back to you later if the thread is still up or the next thread.

>>23406722
What level do you teach?
Where did you get your MA and teaching certificate?
Are you a full-time bottom or do you and your boyfriend take turns?

My high school Latin teacher quit to be a standup comedian

After finishing Athenaze, can I just go straight to reading original texts while referencing a grammar book and dictionary when needed or is there still more to learn?

>>23407444
You need to read every single Greek textbook on the market and complete every exercise before reading a single sentence of authentic texts.

>>23407444
up to you, you can probably try reading through your Xenophon and see if you find it enjoyable enough or if you need some more time with easier readers

>>23402812
Oh yes all the conjugation patterns, like consonant declension vs o (a in sanskrit) declension, the way the dual splits down the cases, and so on recur. The dual does get used a lot more, though.

>>23402812
>>23407508
Gentle reminder to stay on topic! I hear that there are plenty of hindoo threads on /lit/ where you can discuss oriental languages.

>>23407537
based
keep up the good work

The best thing about learning Hebrew in 2024 is knowing that no antisemitic tranny will ever study it.

>>23383944
French wouldn’t of existed with Caesar; so you are kind of serving Caesar’s duty and language.

>>23407584
>wouldn’t of

>>23407576
Off-topic. Sorry! You seem to be needed at the soap factory.

>>23407465
This is probably true desu

>>23407444
Yes you can. Athenaze is a very complete course, its only problem is that it is not easy if you start from zero previous knowledge.

>>23383930
I dropped out of Class.Phil. in my second year bc of mental health issues. Now 3 years later i've got the bug again and want to restart, not the uni tho. Is the Septuagint a good start to build up some basic vocab and to provide some reading experience?

>>23408167
>mental health issues
You aren't strong enough. Give up.

>>23408167
maybe if you already read it, otherwise personally I wouldn't unless interested specifically in biblically related koine lexicon, I'd go for something more straightforwardly Attic

>learned French, German, Spanish, Italian, French and Latin without a problem
>Ancient Greek and Russian are kicking my ass
What gives?

>>23408390
You're probably just stupid. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

>>23408390
you are running out of space in the brain
but also lexical distance probably, and Greek's rich verb system

>>23408390
Record yourself on vocaroo speaking all of those languages please, I just want to see something

>>23408456
I don't think your brain can get full of languages, but Greek verbs are certainly special.
>>23408467
Is there a piece of prose or poetry you want me to read? I don't really feel like blabbering randomly, especially since I've admittedly mostly focused on reading rather than speaking.

>>23408513
Any you like, I just want to see something

>>23408513
>French
something Baudelaire
>German
Holderlin
>Spanish
Borges
>Italian
D'Annunzio
>Latin
Your choice :D

>>23408532
Erm, okay, here's the first page of Il Deserto dei Tartari by Buzzati. I'd be interested if any Italians can tell me if my pronunciation is dogshit
https://voca.ro/1o7TZBo5vp7G

>>23408566
not too bad anon t. italian

>>23408566
Lmfaooooo keep studying lil fella

>>23408601
What's so bad? :(
>>23408551
I think everyone knows the l'Albatros, so here's my (poor) attempt
https://vocaroo.com/1nvzRUS34E8T
I can also do Borges, since he's one of my favourite authors, but I've never read any D'Annunzio or Holderin, so I have no idea what to do. My Latin pronunciation is also garbage. The only people who have a good Latin pronunciation are those Italian blokes like Luigi Miraglia.

>>23406744
I have taught Elementary through College.
A school in the Southwest.
Intercrural sex only.

>>23408638
You read french like a faggot.
Do some efforts at least ! You probably can't understand spoken french if this is how you pronounce it.

>>23409068
Si je parle comme un pédé, c'est que je lis de la poésie, mais je n'ai jamais eu de difficulté quand il s'agit de me faire comprendre ou de comprendre les francophones. Et oui, je sais que ma prononciation pourrait être meilleure

>>23408638
LMFAOOOO you will never speak french

>>23407508
To be honest I think people underestimate how much the dual gets used in Greek. In Homer it shows up occasionally but in Oedipus it shoes up a lot. I know it gets a lot rarer in other authors, but man there were so many duals in Oedipus.

>>23407537
I have posted more about sanskrit in this thread than any other just because of you anon ;)

>>23409357
based
honestly this nasty goblin has the opposite effect

>>23397406
I'll do it for you. Classical Chinese is very polysemantic in my experience. Look at how many people disagree on how to translate Dao/道. On one end you have a group of people that try to stick to conventional English language philosophical terms. On the other end you have word inventors like Ames.
Yang Zhu speaks to me in my dreams... I promise I'll reconstruct your philosophy one day, Master Yang.

>>23409394
NTA, but I am getting close to taking the CC pill. There is so much temptation.

>>23408390
>learned French, German, Spanish, Italian, French and Latin without a problem
you didn't
That is 'what gives'
Otherwise you would have little trouble with Greek

>>23409357
>>23409394
It's great that you are so enthusiastic! Please feel free to make a thread about oriental languages elsewhere.

>>23408638
>learned French, German, Spanish, Italian, French and Latin without a problem
>I've never read any D'Annunzio or Holderin, so I have no idea what to do
How do you square these two statements in your mind? If you truly 'learned German' then it wouldn't matter what author you were reading.
Pseud confirmed. You haven't 'learned' anything, just gotten some basics down and pat yourself on the back. No better than youtube faggots who claim to speak dozens of languages. I bet you can't even ask or give directions or order in a restaurant in any of those.

>>23409386
Yes bros! It's so great to fight racism by learning Asian languages! #transrights

>>23409386
Has he? This thread has been remarkably chink, jeet and kike free compared to the last one.

>>23409459
I mean that he makes me wish to see more posting from those languages, I've never seen a single poster so buck broken by sheer ressentment for being outclassed by everyone

>>23409470
Yes bros! Latin and Greek are for racist chuds. The more language requirements we remove the more we make an equal world for chinese hindoo muslims and trans people! #fightracism

>>23409448
Say and believe what you want. That doesn't mean I will stop reading Kafka, Bolaño, Céline, etc in the original, faggot.

>>23409547
Oops, forgot to attach my epic frog

Are there enough old english texts its worth learning? Any recommendations for resources?

>>23383941
>>23385145
>>23387556
>>23397347
>>23397405
I don't understand, have you guys ever looked at the megas? Are you new? These threads have always had discussion of other languages than Latin and Greek, and the depth and breadth of discourse has been one of the key things separating /clg/ from the rest of this garbage board. Why are you being autistic about this?

bel matim imqut.

>>23409642

>>23409642
Say what you will: thread quality is significantly higher this time around.

>>23409667
half of this thread has been a retard fight over anki, what the fuck are you talking about?

>>23409676
There is actual posting about Greek or Latin and not a single bingbong rune or DEI drone in sight.

>>23409682
half of it has been in the context of sanskrit and the other half was an argument over the value of η. To be fair I like that kind of autism but I think for every other post about Greek or Latin you have an off topic post.

>>23409642
I hate people like you who think they're just born better. Why don't you just go rope? I say this sincerely. You will not be missed.

>>23409690
maybe do your language reps and you can be better too. I was reading some Tibullus today. It's alright but I want to go back to Vergil.

>>23409689
Once the orientals left there was peace

>>23408390
probably because modern romance languages have been stripped of half of their grammar. Once you get used to the case system Latin is easy. Greek verbs are kinda hard but once you get everything memorized you'll be well on your way.

I was wondering how many people actually study the more obscure languages. I imagine tens of thousands study Akkadian, but do you guys think that even a thousand know Hittite or Ugaritic with any degree of competence? The field as a whole is tiny and it makes me sad to think that so many of the languages languish in obscurity.

>>23409655
This exactly

>>23409719
Fuck off oriental, you have your own thread

>>23409667
I don't think this thread is made better by a bunch of people screeching "off-topic" and posting Jew pictures. LLPSI debate seems to be lower, though
>>23409690
What about my post implied this at all? All I'm saying is that these threads were never just about Greek and Latin, and the quality of discussion has always been good because of it. Remember the Ge'ez scholar from a few months ago? Where else do you go for stuff like that?
Sorry if I somehow implied superiority or something lol

>>23409726
>All I'm saying is that these threads were never just about Greek and Latin
False
>and the quality of discussion has always been good because of it
False
>Remember the Ge'ez scholar from a few months ago?
I do now that you reminded me and I'm glad he's gone. He shitted up the thread with his broom up the ass superiority complex islamic proselytizing and everyone knows it. Fuck off and go wherever he went. You aren't wanted here or anywhere else

>>23409726
>All I'm saying is that these threads were never just about Greek and Latin

We've had competing classics threads but you shit those up and spam your dog water poisoned well. Your mega is shit BTW.

>>23409068
>You read french like a faggot.

So he sounds like a native speaker? Impressive.

How the fuck do I stop translating (Latin) in my head while reading? It feels impossible

>>23409724
>studies latin and greek
>has no interest in the other languages with which they were interacting
Why? do you just dislike language?

>>23409768
The first step is to read Latin left to right one word at a time
I know this sounds like a truism but it's extremely important

>>23409773

>>23409726
There you go again acting like you know better or like it would give you a license to lord over others if you did
You make me sick

>>23409776
I think I understand what you mean, but I sort of "cheat". When I reach a word that doesn't fit English order I translate the root, mentally note the suffix, skip, and when I reach the next word that lets me decipher meaning, were it English, I jump back to the first word and translate the whole phrase in my head. I know it's fucked but I can't break the habit. very simple example:
"Mater filiam vocat."
1. Mater (translate in head as mother)
2. filiam (translate in head as daughter)
3. vocat (translate as calls)
4. jump back to 'filiam' and translate the sentence as if it were English

>>23409831
>>23409743
Wtf? Is there some discord drama I'm missing here or something?

>>23409785
>wanting to learn the language of babylon is a jewish conspiracy
i in malam crucem, cinaede

>>23409845
You have to stop doing this or you'll never read with ease.
I guess you can try rereading easy texts that you already know well. Or read the texts of any course book, those usually start very simple.

>>23409547
But not D'Annunzio or Holderin, despite having learned Italian and German, right?

>>23409642
>These threads have always
wrong, faggot

Wait how did Hebrew lose its case system where it was present in classical arabic and was present even in the east semitic languages.

>>23409768
I think it just is impossible. The best I can aspire to is to just enjoy the crossword puzzle.

>>23408078
I haven't found it too hard so far, with Greek it seems like you pick up on the grammar naturally as you read it. I found Latin grammar way more difficult to make sense of. But the New Testament passages at the end of the chapters have confused the shit out of me at times so I still feel like I have a long way to go

>>23410055
Off-topic

NOVUM
NOVUM
NOVUM
>>23410774
>>23410774
>>23410774

>>23410775
why do you make them so early?

>>23410775
>>23410781
ahh i see, so you can have you shitty disclaimer at the end of the op. the way you have tried to hijack this general honestly makes me sad.

>>23410788
Cry about it

Just don't use that one and make another thread once we hit bump limit

>>23410775
OP here, this is the goblin's thread, do not reply to it, I will make the proper one when the time comes

>>23410942
Don't listen to the trolls

One man single-handedly killed /clg/ because people can't ignore him

>>23410967
constant lurkers can ignore him, but she ruins the thread for those who aren't familiar with /clg/

>>23410775
>he removed ethiopianon's mega
That has been in the OP longer than this νεάνισκος has been """learning"""" his precious latin.

Hi /lit/. We seriously need your help. Can you please report this thread? >>>/u/4213114
It was made by a spammer who doesn't even like our board's subject. Please report it. Thank you.

>>23410988
>>23410988
>>23410988

>>23410985
>/u/
tell me your thoughts on sappho and I might join ypa

>>23410992
Troll thread. Ignore and report. The evidence is that they forgot to post rule 1.