/lit/ - Literature

>>23369706
Why? It's very, very good. I like it a lot. I want more anons to talk about it with.

Like it or not (which most idiots on here probably will say is shit or whatever), it's the most important American novel post 1960 and certainly one of the best.

>>23369706
I think anything that contextualizes, and allows for the questioning of, received ideas about literature would be good for anons to read. So basically any critic or literary historian other than Bloom, and even actually reading Bloom, or at least paying attention to the pre-Democratic Age parts of his list, would be a big step in the right direction.
Eliot, Saintsbury, Matthew Arnold, Dr. Johnson, Coleridge, etc. If I had to pick one I'd probably just go as broad and straightforward as possible and say Saintsbury's history of English lit. But I haven't read it so I can't say for sure. The point is less about reading any particular thing and more about realizing the scale of what's out there. Things like your pick are also good because it takes the scope beyond literature and situates it within the larger context from which it ultimately derives.

The Bible. Obvious answer but I'd argue there is no other book in the Western canon which has had a greater influence. Even if you're not religious, you should read it to better understand all the subsequent work which stems from it

>>23369970
>If I had to pick one I'd probably just go as broad and straightforward as possible and say Saintsbury's history of English lit. But I haven't read it so I can't say for sure.
Will never understand people like you.

>>23369804
The four horsemen allusion was unnecessary. Other than that, the book seemed great, idk why I didn't like it. I understood everything, I just failed to appreciate it.

Arguably the most influential work written in English, and undoubtedly the English nation epic:

>>23370048
A massive English gigacope which apes the Greeks in the worst, most soulless, boring way it could.
One of the most overrated, pretentious English works ever. If I could stab Milton's eyes out and rape his wife I would.

>>23370069
You haven't read it.

>>23369706
I would rate this as one of the most inspiring books I have read. Though, it is best read when one is in a bad situation, for therein lies its power, but I still think it is useful for people generally.

Ah yes, the obligatory "acclaimed work is actually... le bad!" post

Time to take the schizopill, anon

>>23370070
And I never will, too much good poetry out there to ever bother with Milton's big fat turd

>>23370087
You aren't amusing or clever, you're a waste of space whose tepid curiosity in literature will amount to nothing. You will never finish a reading list and will one day give up and surrender to normal mediocre life.
Save yourself the time and do that sooner rather than later.

>>23370076
Not in a dark place right now but it still looks interesting, and I certainly haven't read enough medieval literature. Just ordered a copy. Thanks, Anon

>>23370069
>>23370087
average french post

>>23370094
I don't have a reading list, which is a womanish vanity unless you are a dimwit. I have no childish insecurities about a "mediocre life", seemingly your pitiable projection. I simply read good books, and you didn't post one. Reading the first book of PL is enough to see it is a worthless waste of my time, every other English canon author is worth miles more.

>>23370120
Every other writer in the English canon past 1700 read Paradise Lost

>>23370120
>le gay porn webm
Said all I needed to know m8, off yourself.

>>23370125
And? You do think for yourself, right? You don't convince yourself you like something because you think big important men like it, right?
>>23370128
You need to go back

>>23370136
My thought is that if other prolific authors read and lauded it, then it's worthy if my attention

>>23370147
And there's no need read the whole thing to make a judgement. Ill just read the Illiad again, or maybe some Chaucer. Thanks but no thanks.

>>23370120
>Reading the first book of PL is enough to see it is a worthless waste of my time
This guy really read
>What though the field be lost?
All is not lost—the unconquerable will,
And study of revenge, immortal hate,
And courage never to submit or yield:
And what is else not to be overcome?
That glory never shall his wrath or might
Extort from me.
and thought "yeah this sucks"

>>23370096
Glad to hear that. I hope you enjoy.

>>23370160
Explain, with reference to the first page, why you hate it.

>>23370208
No I'm no going to write an essay for you.

>>23370246
It's not because you won't, it's because you can't. Don't bother replying again.

>>23370259
>Don't bother replying again.

>>23369786
whats it about anon? :>

>>23370033
Well, the general program of reading alluded to in my post might help you clear up exactly that sort of misunderstanding, given how it's clearly a result of the cargo-cult fetishistic aura with which the average /lit/ poster tends to imbue books and reading. I could speculate about *why* that happens, but it would be hard to do so without being insulting, so I'll just assume it's mimicry pure and simple.

>>23370444
Challenging that fetishism by recommending books you haven't read is certainly a novel strategy.

>>23370246
When people refuse to back up their edgy opinions it is obviously cowardly but more than anything else it's boring. At least the retard who posts "Whoop-dee-do" about the Iliad five times a day explicitly lays out his "critique" of it and gives us a detailed look into his fascinating little mind.

>>23369706
I have this book on my bookshelf taking dust. Why should I read it? Seems interesting but I feel like I should give priority to other works. Your reply would be very much appreciated.

>>23370459
If I needed to remove a certain size of screw, I wouldn't need to have used the correct sized screwdriver myself in order to tell someone else it was in fact the correct size. Not a perfect analogy, but hopefully it gets the point across. If it does what it says on the tin then it will work quite well as a means to (or at least toward) the end which I was talking about. And my intuition is that it's exactly the means-to-an-end-ness of it all that bothers you.

>>23369804
>>23369706
>>23369786
>>23369844
Gonna need better reasons to read these books. Like I have time to read about how people lived in Italy during the Renaissance.

>>23370408
Cigarettes
Jazz
Wine
Bohemian bitches
Hippies and hipsters
Truth and fiction
Love and obsession
Nescafe
Mate
Philosophy
Grace

>>23370491
>If I needed to remove a certain size of screw, I wouldn't need to have used the correct sized screwdriver myself in order to tell someone else it was in fact the correct size. Not a perfect analogy, but hopefully it gets the point across.
Completely nonsensical analogy. Stop posting now.

>>23370503
>Like I have time to read about how people lived in Italy during the Renaissance.
I'd recommend you don't read books at all, they'd be wasted on you.

>>23370561
Why is it nonsensical? Go ahead and elaborate, don't be shy. No need to act aggressive either, think about where we are and what we're talking about, it just makes you look silly.

>>23369804
It's good, underrated by this board for obvious reasons, overrated outside the board for obvious reasons, but it's not even the best American novel of the 1980s, which is of course Housekeeping

Camille Paglia is the Ideal Scholar. In awe of what she's done here

Entertained me more than probably anything I've read by Shakespeare

A Tale of a Tub by Jonathan Swift. I love Swift. He was a miserable, bitter cunt and his writings are the most beautiful kind of hell.

Lucretius’s De Rerum Natura is a book you can base your whole worldview on and be perfectly happy

This book is absolutely phenomenal, Couple months back, an anon was bitching about the Western Canon being a meme, i didnt entertain him but I read one of the books he recommended.

>>23371940
oh..my bad.

First edition is two thousand dollars btw

>>23372094
>>23371940
I remember that discussion, I think I interacted with him but I'm not sure. Anyway this book seems like it gets at, at least, the general type of thing I was trying to talk about here >>23369970, so I'll give it a third vote as it's short and approachable.

>>23372119
Good choice

>>23369804
>it's the most important American novel post 1960

>>23369706
Does it give serious attention to the Hermetic revival in Italy at that time, and its impact on / relationship with the Renaissance more generally?

>>23369706
Cassirer is better

>>23369786
Is it hard to read?

>>23372119
>tfw wyatt's head is on fire

please tell me someone else got that reference.

Warlock, Oakley Hall
Suttree, Cormac McCarthy
Libra, Don DeLillo
Stoner, John Williams

>>23370048
>undoubtedly the English nation epic
>implying

>>23369706
anyone got entertaining but useful nonfiction recs? I mostly read textbooks and political stuff. Books that keep you hooked and provide real world history or knowledge that can be utilized in conversations

>>23369804
I own it, but haven't read it. I meant to, I just didn't.

>>23370069
>t. filtered

>>23374188
Theory of Natural Philosophy by Roger J. Buscovich, it BTFO both Newton and Leibniz, and provides a good introduction into metaphysics i.e Field Theory.

>>23374188
The Conquest of New Spain by Bernal Diaz del Castile. It’s a first person account of the conquest of the Aztecs by one of Cortes’ soldiers.

>>23369786
Hated it, didn't finish, the MC is a pretentious dweeb

If we're talking about the renaissance in Italy, I read Machiavelli's biography. What was strange was the author owning up to just speculating about things as they're unknowns. Then I read Da vinci's biography which was less up front. But it went through his paintings, only about 14 he did, went into his science and engineering. Also lived with a 10 year old boy I guess as his boy love

>>23374188
The history is just as gripping as any novel, desu

Not super famous, not perfect, and the author has his flaws.
But the insights of this book are absolutely essential for truly grasping the depths of the tension in western culture. Once you see it you realise how a spiritual struggle has affected everything for almost 2 millennia.

>>23372094
lol that was me... to be mentioned like this almost brings a tear to my eye.

>>23376854
>Once you see it
qrd?

>>23377310
Rope.

>>23377324

>>23377310
The worldviews of Native vs Abrahamic religion are so deeply, thoroughly opposed that you can see the battle play out in all of western history, philosophy, literature, art, etc.

>>23377335
Why should I trust some neopagan retard on this over, say, Spengler?

>>23369706
It’s hard to say since everyone looks for something different in a book. I do believe everyone wants more inner peace though so probably something like the Dhammapada. It’s short and even if it’s something you keep in the back of your mind and absorb, it will help a lot of people. No need to practice Buddhism to take valuable life lessons away from the book

The greatest wisdom book of the ancient world.

>>23377343
He talks about Spengler dipshit. And de Benoist is an atheist.

>>23372094
>>23372168
>>23377300
If anyone else is interested, the discussion is at >>22953526

>>23377437
>if you're sick, go to the damn doctor, idiot
wow...

>"Once man awakens to consciousness, the spirit of murder is imbued in his brain."
>"In the eternal battle of the sexes, we always lose, and we can do nothing about it."
>"Perhaps I am a practical joker who enjoys playing jokes on himself?"
>"For a few moments, we were both the unconscious and ludicrous playthings of our own deception."

Great book, excellent pacing. Very French.

>>23369706
Euclids Elements