/lit/ - Literature

What do you call this genre of 4chan poster that isn't really a 4chan poster, more like a guy who knows OF 4chan and comes here only when some eceleb has an "un-4chanly" biographical detail revealed, so they can post "LMAOOOO 4CHUDS ON SUICIDE WATCH, XxX420GOKUXxX THE QUAKE 3 ARENA STREAMER HAS A CHINESE GF" internet culture war things that really fit more on twitter

>>23334518
Fags

>>23334518
I've been a regular poster in /clg/ for years. Sorry to say but your BASED cowboy viking senpai is a cuck, just like all other old norse fans. Meanwhile Greek and Latin chads don't have to deal with any of this shit.

>>23334518
I usually call the (/pol/)-tourists.
It's almost always /pol/-related.
And if /pol/ is your home board you should just lore more.

>>23334518
OP's probably just a buttblasted christcuck

>>23334502
He's a university professor. His interest in Norse mythology is purely academic. He was never a pagan.

>>23334524
>Meanwhile Greek and Latin chads don't have to deal with any of this shit.
hahahah

>>23334502
qrd?

literal who?

>>23334524
Norse isn’t even the default language of that area anyways. Mediterraneans are black, regardless.

>>23334612
Show me a single Greek or Latin GOD who's a cuckold
>>23334656
>>23334661
Old Norse youtuber got into drama with girlfriend, she broke up and released tons of texts revealing he's a cuck with a bbc fetish

>>23334691
so post them i dont have shitter

>it's real
hahaha

>>23334716
go to FaustianChristcel's acct

>>23334724
i just told you i dont have shitter. post the pics

>>23334691
Hephaestus was a cuck

no source = fake and gay

>>23334502
Why are you lying on the internet?

>>23334691
literally who, though?

>>23334502
I thought he was some translator? What does he have to do with paganism?

>>23334502
>>23334524
It always comes back to faggots.

>>23334691
>Old Norse youtuber got into drama with girlfriend, she broke up and released tons of texts revealing he's a cuck with a bbc fetish
wtf proofs?

>>23334524
Why do you talk in this schizophrenic autistic way. Would you ever talk like this irl even to close buddies? Shit is retarded and embarrassing

>>23334800
Nothing, he's a professor Medieval Scandinavian literature who has made youtube videos about Medieval Scandinavian literature which, obviously, includes the central texts of Asatru, the Eddas and Sagas of Medieval Scandinavia. He made a video saying that he's an atheist and doesn't like Asatru because it's too right wing for him.

>>23334502
>cuckold
making shit up again on the internet, anon? bad boy. very bad boy.
>BASED pagan
he's clearly said he isn't pagan because "muh racism" but idk what you expect from someone who used to be in the universities -- he's at least based about university politics and elitism.

>>23334502
What makes you think I care about your alt-normie celebrity drama? Go back to whatever shithole you came from OP

>>23334502
anyways i will defend this faggot until i die because he's the only one on youtube who has the actual credentials to back up his videos, plus he has released hundreds and hundreds of hours of genuinely educational content with zero bullshit or editorialization.
he's pretty much single-handedly fueling pagan knowledge even if he himself isn't one

>>23334836
>he's pretty much single-handedly fueling pagan knowledge even if he himself isn't one
Not really. The Wiccan types don't like him because he's (or at least was, if we believe OP's claims) straight and White, whereas the Asatru types had over two decades of theology and ritual development before he was even born and today have their own accumulated corpuses. He immolated himself in the eyes of this community when he said that Asatru was too right wing, which alienated actual Asatruar (who don't give a shit what lefty thinks), and also alienated Wiccans by saying the quiet part out loud (that Asatru is an actual religion with beliefs, doctrines, and rituals that have to be followed).

>>23334856
>Asatru
>Wiccans
All LARPers playing pretend.

>>23334858
The fact that you made this thread demonstrates that you clearly don't believe that.

>>23334836
Survive the Jive has credentials too

Literally who

>>23334867
That was my first post in the thread, anon. I just like to call out pagan LARPers. Don't get me wrong, I'm interested in the subject of paganism, roman or greek or norse, but the idea that we can somehow return to that system of belief is wack.

I always had the impression that he was a centrist and very conservative in his own personal life
Anyway fun fact, apparently he had a female stalker who was obsessed with him

>>23334881
>the idea that we can somehow return to that system of belief is wack.
Well, yes, in as much as the return has already occurred and you can't return to something that you're already at. Asatru is a living religion with ordained clergy, multiple temples, is own theological treatises, etc, so it's just up to individual White people as to whether or not they want to return to their ethnoreligion or not. Given the growth that this religion is experiencing it's clear that there's a hunger for this sort of thing. Maybe you should look into it before casting judgement so harshly? The AFA has gothar who communicate via email about this stuff all the time.

>>23334716
>>23334740
I have a throwaway twitter I use to message porn actresses in my niche fetish and ask them about sociological and phenomenological dimensions of acting out my fetishes, and I just checked twitter's search function to the extent that I am able for any recent scandals about this Jackson Crawford fellow and could not find anything.

>>23334881
So you’re brown is what you’re saying?

>>23334888
From Wikipedia
>and as of 1 January 2018, the organization has 5770 registered members, about one third of whom are women.

>>23334947
Now let’s pull up Christianity’s stats, and see how many are actually human (non-hispanic, non-black)

>>23334888
How can you return to something you don't even know? The ancient Scandinavians didn't write anything down until way, way later in their history. The vast majority of texts on the subject were written by Christians. There's no underlying unifying text or doctrine like in Christianity or Islam.

I feel like reading a long saga
>njals saga
>eyrbyggja saga
>laxdæla saga
>grettirs saga
Which should I read?

>>23334964
>erm we destroyed your beliefs goy so just worship this jew, quit trying to do anything different!

>>23334953
The reason why people identify your religion as a larp is because it's obviously just an ethnic social club with no real spiritual beliefs. I doubt you're even Icelandic or of meaningful Scandinavian heritage. Worse yet, you're probably an American who is so devoid of real national or cultural identity that you make a church out of zoology.

>people acually act like they worship the gods of ass backwards barbarians
lmao'ing

>>23334979
I’d rather be called a larper than worship a literal jew. Your god is a canaanite pagan god of storms who the Jews used to make “molech” to, as in human sacrifices, you’re no better than any “barbaric” pagan, you just get to play the seniority game because people have been stupid enough to believe in your garbage for 2000 years.

>>23334856
What you're omitting is that the people who give a shit about this sort of thing probably made up less than 25% of his viewerbase.
the plain truth is that the majority didn't/don't care, they just appreciate that he has actual credentials and releases a bunch of free content, thus they continue to watch him.
>>23334870
yes, good point, survive the jive is also a good, trustworthy source.

>>23334974
>You must be a Christcuck
Why are you dumb? I'm simply pointing out that the religion you refer to as "Asatru" is a completely modern fabrication, like Wicca.
Also, where am I wrong?

>>23334987
Even lamer, you're such a contrarian that you pretend to be a pagan just to spite Christianity.

>>23334884
>centrist and very conservative
that's how it seemed to me as well. his video about why he left academia was basically a tacit confirmation that he's not far right enough for the racialists, but too moderate (aka conservative in the current political climate) for the liberal/left academics.
he mentioned as well that he worked under a senior academic who despised him and played department politics against him, and i have a very hard time imagining that this could occur for any other reason than that he wasn't leftist enough, and/or wasn't reading norse myth through the lens of 2020s leftist progressivism

>>23334998
This is your god bro, bow down.

>>23334964
>ow can you return to something you don't even know?
The Gods exist, and we can interact with them, duh.

>The ancient Scandinavians didn't write anything down
Yes they did, not that it matters as we the Gods exist today and we can interact with them today, on top of the sources from nonscandinavians.

>The vast majority of texts on the subject were written by Christians
No they weren't.

>There's no underlying unifying text or doctrine like in Christianity or Islam.
Yes there is.

>>23335009
In a discussion of your religion you spend more time talking about other religions. You've only defined your religion as "not jewish" and "not brown." I don't even have a reply of "this is your religion bro!" because there is literally no substance to your religion.

>>23335002
I think the guy he's talking about is Jesse Byock
Jackson seems to have an intense hatred for the man
Also I saw on comments talking about Jesse Byock's course on Old Norse that he has a lot of disgruntled former students
Apparently Jesse Byock got his PHD students to help him with his course books and didn't give them credit, basically treating them like slaves
Of course I cannot verify this information, it is an unsubstantiated rumours and I don't want to impinge on the good reputation of a celebrated scholar like Jesse Byock
I am sure Jesse Byock is a great person in his personal life and so I have to reiterate, these are UNSUBSTANTIATED RUMOURS potentially spread by bitter and resentful students
Btw Jesse Byock's course books are fucking terrible
Feels like they were written with school kids in mind and use the grammar translation method

>>23334988
I think that it was pretty clear that I wasn't referring to those people, as the anon in question wasn't referring to those people.

>>23334758
Wrong

>>23334971
start with njals

>>23334998
No amount of typing the word "larp" will change the fact that you beg a jew to forgive you

>>23335025
You don’t know my religion, I’ve told you nothing about what I believe, and I don’t intend to. Your Christcuckery deserves to be mocked. You sound like a queer.

>>23335026
>Apparently Jesse Byock got his PHD students to help him with his course books and didn't give them credit, basically treating them like slaves
Not that this is acceptable, but this is the norm in academia, so I totally buy this as having happened.

>>23334979
What, you mean like Eastern Orthodoxy? No, this religion isn't like that. You don't seem all that interested in actually talking about religion and theology and are more concerned with shitposting about e-celebs, but if you'd like to ask any of the number of layanons in this thread about the religion I'm sure we'd be willing to talk about it. Alternatively, you could talk to the ordained clergy that were already mentioned upthread.

>>23335042
Again, not a positive construction of what your beliefs is, merely an attack on another religion. We get that you're not Christian. Hating Christianity is not the same thing as worshipping a Norse deity. You don't seem to get that "not Christian" isn't a religion.

>>23335047
bro the dude above you literally said that you can ask about the religion if you want

>>23335047
NTA. also not a cringe pagan. my interest in norse myth is purely academic.
norse religion in its actual form was less of a set of rules (like modern religion) and more of a set of cultural stories/myths that followers would learn from and emulate.
you also had competing cults within the pantheon, ie odin cultists might fight with freya cultists.
asking a norse pagan to formulate a "positive construction" of their belief is kind of a retarded question, because its not like ancient norse pagans had some equivalent of the fucking ten commandments or written texts like Leviticus that postulated a bunch of faggy rules to follow.
someone who worshipped odin would simply worship odin. they would make offerings to odin, venerate him, and probably be a warrior of some kind. it's not exactly that complicated, and, again, the fact that someone can't say "here are Le Rules of norse paganism" is not quite the 'gotcha' that you think it is -- you're just making yourself look like a retard to anyone who knows even a bit about the topic.

>>23335047
I don't worship Norse deities, I laugh at brown "people" that worship jews that are so insecure about that fact that they constantly must resort to tu qouque fallacies to cope

>>23335043
>>23335043
>I’ve told you nothing about what I believ
You don't believe in anything. You sound like an angry teenager.
>Eastern Orthodoxy
Yeah Eastern Ortodoxy places too big of an emphasis on being an ethnic enclave. A lot of people use it as a political and ethnic program rather than a genuine exercise of spirituality. It is mildly annoying to see so many people use religion as a political tool and not comprehend that they're functionally atheists.
I've seen so many pagan threads where the main content of the discussion is pagans posting anti Christian memes and nothing else. I didn't even make a Christian statement and yet in response to what I've said is just "christcuck!" All I can ascertain from what I've seen is that most self ascribed pagans define themselves negatively, as in "not Christian and angry about Christianity."

>>23334502
anyways if this actually is a real thing can someone post some sort of link

>>23335055
I've already engaged in a neutral discussion and received absolutely no answer other than "christcuck."

>>23335057
You're the first person who actually offered a positive construction of what paganism is. Sure there doesn't have to be a systemized theology, but if a person can't tell me what he is actually worshipping then there's no reason to take him seriously.

>>23335065
>>23335057
NTA again.
i answered you here, faggot. you just didn't like the answer.

>>23335057
>norse religion in its actual form was less of a set of rules (like modern religion) and more of a set of cultural stories/myths that followers would learn from and emulate.
This isn't the case, as texts like Hyndluloð, the Havamal, and Rigsþula demonstrate. True, Asatru, like all Indo-European religions, isn't conceptualized as a list of 613 Mitzvot that have to be followed ala Abrahamic religion, but there were and are absolutely rules and norms that have to be followed (at absolute minimum cowards, homosexuals, and oathbreakers get chucked into Nastrond after death).

>odin cultists might fight with freya cultists.
This was never a thing, and it doesn't really make sense to even do. Freyja is one of the Aesir and as such is within Odin's family and tribe, why would they be in competition? For what? The Gods interact with us out of love, they don't need cows or worship or something like that, and you can (and are supposed to) worship multiple Gods.

>asking a norse pagan to formulate a "positive construction" of their belief is kind of a retarded question
No, it's a pretty good question, which is why there is a "positive construction" that exist today and did in ancient times as well. A peasant might not be able to do it because that's how peasants are, but the clergy and warrior aristocracy absolutely could (we're told that this was part of being a priest or an aristocrat; Rigsþula mentions this).

>because its not like ancient norse pagans had some equivalent of the fucking ten commandments
Actually they did, we know from texts like the Havamal, Rigsthula, etc. In the Havamal Odin even talks about the Gods repeatedly coming down, giving mankind knowledge and rules to follow, mankind forgetting these, and the Gods having to come back down and explain everything all over again.

>>23335070
ah, shit, this showed up immediately after i posted >>23335073 . forgive me.

>>23335060
>y-you’re Le heckin angry teenager because you don’t worship a jew
How’s your favela this time of year?

>>23335065
no you didnt, you came into a thread about a subject that you are totally ignorant of, called peopel "larpers", and then got upset when they told you that you are wrong.

also you ignored the three people saying that they would give you "positive constructions" of their religion if you actually asked them what they believe and you havent done that yet so idk why you are getting upset.

>>23335060
Damn, that comment about larpodoxy really got you good huh?

>>23335065
>neutral discussion
>”here’s your heckin BEEBEECEE Paganlarpbros how does this make you feel? KIKE IS KAAAAAAANG KIKE IS KAAAAAANG”
Average “neutral” christsister discussion

>>23334502
>Get into scandishit
>Immediately wants his wife to fuck dark men
Cant say it doesnt fit a pattern.

>>23335070
>but if a person can't tell me what he is actually worshipping then there's no reason to take him seriously.
What, like how you LARPers reinvent a 2nd-century heresy every time you're asking about the Trinity? Why would people who call themselves "Asa-tru" not be able to tell you that they worship the Aesir who created and rule the cosmos? Like, come the fuck on dude the AFA's website has a fucking list of Gods and Goddesses on it.

>>23335075
>Hyndluloð, the Havamal, and Rigsþula
ok, fair enough.
>The Gods interact with us out of love
simply untrue.
>clergy and warrior aristocracy absolutely could
again, fair enough. i admit i haven't read Rigsþula, just the Havamal. again, I am not a pagan and just have an interest in these things so thank you for the correction.
>Havamal ... rules to follow
from my reading of Havamal i was pretty sure that it was not really a set of rules but literally advice. perhaps we are just getting into a kind of semantic squabble, here, though. to be clear when I hear the word "rules" in a religious context I think of things that have some sort of consequence for non-compliance -- like, in christianity, breaking the rules mentioned in Leviticus constituted sins that you had to repent for. in contrast, forgetting to be careful around doorways just incase an enemy is lurking beyond the threshold, as Odin advises, is not something that Odin himself might consider a grave injustice and be mad at you for -- he's just giving friendly advice. i feel like there is an important distinction there, if relatively small

>>23335084
I came to the thread pretty late and I responded specifically to someone who said his practice of faith was purely on a racial basis. He could have easily have corrected me but instead called me christcuck, at which point I told him he's only defining his beliefs negatively. Anyone could have informed me of the actual contents of belief, which two anons actually did, for which I'm grateful.
Don't just seethe and post soijacks and act offended when you're not taken seriously.

>>23335090
>>23335090
>that comment about larpodoxy really got you good huh?
I don't understand. I agreed with the point explicitly. Orthodoxy is an ethnic social club and its American converts are mostly larpers.
>>23335092
I haven't said anything about BBC or made any posts you're presumably quoting.
>>23335097
>Why would people who call themselves "Asa-tru" not be able to tell you that they worship the Aesir who created and rule the cosmos?
Good question. Why are you only just mentioning it when I've spent the last half hour asking? Why did you tell me there is no positive construction of the belief system prior to telling me this positive construction of the belief system?

post proof if trvke

>>23335101
>simply untrue.
Well, the Sagas and Eddas say otherwise, as do 50+ years of modern religious experience. If you want to argue about what "love" means in this context, sure, but this isn't a transactional relationship except in the most abstract and aggregate senses ("Odin gives people strength so that he can get einherjar").

>perhaps we are just getting into a kind of semantic squabble, here, though
I think that's the case. Let me rephrase this at length:
The Gods want us to do certain things. The Gods, and the world that we live in, will act a certain way if we act a certain way. Formulations of this cause and effect relationship can loosely be called "rules". Yes, they're not the 613 Mitzvot of Judaism, and some of them are rather abstract ("look around corners before proceeding because you don't know what's on the other side").

But, some of these "rules" are about things that the Gods actively or passively enforce. When Odin says "it's a good idea to be kind to guests because not doing so results in you suffering", he's telling us something that he has made a conscious choice regarding. Odin (and Vili and Ve) COULD have made Midgard in such a manner that fucking over guests benefits you, but they didn't, so clearly they want the world to be a certain way. Some of the advice that he gives isn't of grave importance, but some of it is. In other texts, we're told that Thor, Freyja, and Freyr had similar "rules". For example, Thor is a portrayed as a protector of maidens and children: "if you hurt kids and women then Thor will fuck you up" isn't a Mitzvot, but it is a "rule". Perhaps at one point Thor was said to have explicitly told people this, perhaps not, but it was clearly understood.

You're right, the distinction is important, but the original question was over whether or not there was any structure period, and there's clearly a structure with norms that have to be followed.

>>23335106
i have not posted a single soijack in this thread, do not defame me with such slander.

>>23335123
based and polite explanation, thank you anon.

>>23335116
>Why are you only just mentioning it when I've spent the last half hour asking?
Because that was my first post in the thread, and after having read it I saw numerous anons giving "positive constructions" of what the religion entails, including at least three people who you just ignored.

>Why did you tell me there is no positive construction of the belief system prior to telling me this positive construction of the belief system?
I didn't tell you that because you're responding to my first post in the thread. In fact, no one told you that, and several people said the opposite. You ignored them and kept arguing with a dude who is clearly just trolling you. If this is all some complicated scheme to get them to talk about their religion then you could have at least given some of these effortposters bait to get them to walltext about reincarnation or whatever.

>>23334502
haha it's true go on his gf's twitter

>>23335024
Ok, now I know you're a larper.

>we can interact with them, duh.
So you're as superstitious as Christians, Muslims and Jews, yet you still condemn them?

>Yes they did
They objectively did not write shit down. Paper wasn't a thing in Scandinavia until late in their history. They inscribed shit on rocks which was time consuming, so they rarely did it. Even the Futhark versions are modern re-creations. These are verifiable facts.

>No they weren't.
Show me first hand sources of texts about their religious beliefs and practices.

>Yes there is.
Show me the unifying text or doctrine of the ancient Norse people. You have a literal child's conception of the ancient Scandinavians; you view them as some homogenous group with a unified language, culture and belief system. In reality they were a bunch of scattered tribes/clans who each had their own culture and practices. Even during the Viking era they were not a homogenous society. Why does your version of history so drastically contradict what's already been known for decades?

>>23335144
please post the name of his gf or a link to her twitter

>It's real
Paganbros...not like this...

I know this is fake because there is no way that he'd ever talk about his love life
I say this as someone who is very attracted to him and has been quite obsessed about him to the point of dreaming about him

At what point did the gauls, germans, etc. of the Roman period definitively evolve into the Saxons, Swedes, Goths, Gutes, the whole old Scandinavian cultural group?

>>23335158
>neither greek nor jew
Theologically you HAVE to give your daughters to black men if they are Christian.

>>23335146
>So you're as superstitious as Christians, Muslims and Jews, yet you still condemn them?
What, me personally? I think all of my beliefs are 110% rational and objectively correct. I don't really give a shit about "superstition" except in cases where it's obviously hurting people, which is rare. If you're asking me if I believe in the supernatural and suprahuman entities, then yeah obviously, I'm religious, that's how it works. I've never said a word of ill in this thread or in real life about Christians, Muslims, and Jews for just being religious. I have problems with Christianity, most so-called Christians that I've met have been perfectly fine people (you don't really care about the other two).

>They objectively did not write shit down
Writing in the Germanic world is attested at least as far back as the 500sAD.

>They inscribed shit on rocks
And a huge amount of other goods as part of the reason why the futhark even came about was to label things (like, literally label things as a way of decentralized ordermaking). This is in addition to them writing their oral tradition down in the Medieval period, which is how we even know this stuff in the first place.

>Even the Futhark versions are modern re-creations
No they aren't? Why would you think this? The Older and Younger Futhark, alongside the Futhorc, are well attested alphabets and the order that the staves are in comes from some kind of ancient ordering system that, at minimum, is attested by the FUÞARK sequence showing up carved on various goods.

>go onto this twitter acc that's not real
>go onto his gf's twitter which i will not say what it is or give you the link
>another thread where nobody actually links the proof


big if true, if not, dramafags stay winning

>>23335146
>the Futhark versions are modern re-creations
are you fucking retarded? everything you've said is now suspect in light of this egregiously incorrect suggestion

>>23335175
Cont.

>Show me first hand sources of texts about their religious beliefs and practices.
That would be the Eddas and the Sagas.
>no give me a single line that I can pilpul about!
You're going to have to be more specific here about what you mean: which beliefs and practices?

>Show me the unifying text or doctrine of the ancient Norse people.
Well, firstly, I'm not super concerned with the "ancient Norse people", I'm concerned with the Gods and the Ancestors. Medieval Scandinavia is fun, but today is more important. So, again, you're just going to have to read the Eddas and Sagas if you want access to the corpus of Medieval Scandinavian literature. Some of the texts already cited, like the Havamal, the Rigsþula, Hyndluloð, etc, go over this. But, and this is an important point: The Gods and the Ancestors and the world that they rule over and love are all real. The texts are just useful ways to understand these things, but they only matter so much. This is a living religion, and as it continues to live there will be more texts. Steven McNallen's "Asatru: A Native European Spirituality" is a text that attempts to summarize Asatru doctrine. There will be more, and better, texts that do so as time goes on. You can cope, seethe, and dilate about it, or you can get on the winning team, either way it's going to happen.

I'm not going to bother with the rest of your bizarre strawman as it's frankly boring, and if threw books at you like The One Eyed God or Lady With A Mead Cup you wouldn't read them anyways as you didn't even read the Wikipedia article on the futhark before posting.

>>23335183
im actually going insane trying to find this shit. guess i got trolled.
dramafags stay winning.

>>23335188
I think they might be talking about writing Old Norse literature in Futhark
It is a popular thing for neo-pagans to have, for example the poetic edda, written in Futhark

>>23335135
I didn't ignore anybody. I asked a few times before I got an answer. I engaged with the answers upon receiving them. You should read the thread again, but closely this time.

>>23335191
I think it's fake. The OP post is a copypasta

>>23334870
He has obvious agendas which undermine him. When cowboy man talks about the relationship between Indra and Thor I feel like I can take it seriously. It has weight. He has no interest in associating the two as part of some romantic narrative.
Jive saying the same thing would automatically have less weight. It might be based on cherry picking to fit his romanticism. That I tend to like his kind of romanticism makes it even worse because that means I'm susceptible. I might participate in strengthening in my mind a position based on bias and delusions.

>>23335191
every time....

>>23335158
He’s anti-White and disavows real pagan groups like the AFA

>>23335175
>I think all of my beliefs are 110% rational and objectively correct.
Uh huh, so do all the other religious people.

>Writing in the Germanic world is attested at least as far back as the 500sAD.
Writing was extremely fucking rare. You simply cannot deny this. The vast, vast majority of information was disseminated orally.

>The Older and Younger Futhark, alongside the Futhorc, are well attested alphabets
You misunderstand me. The ancient Norse alphabet is indeed ancient. But no one alive knows the actual names and meanings of each letter with 100% accuracy. Do you think it's a coincidence that so many letters coincide with the Latin alphabet?

>>23335205
>Uh huh, so do all the other religious people.
And?

>Writing was extremely fucking rare.
This is what's called "moving the goalposts".

>The vast, vast majority of information was disseminated orally.
And?

>You misunderstand me.
No, I understood you, you're just wrong and are trying to backtrack.

>But no one alive knows the actual names and meanings of each letter with 100% accuracy.
Yes we do, we have multiple texts telling us them. At minimum there's the 5 runepoems (I count the Abecedarium Nordmannicum as a "runepoem" here as it has the names), on top of their ideographic usage (such as the "odal" in Beowulf).

>Do you think it's a coincidence that so many letters coincide with the Latin alphabet?
No, obviously not, we know that the shapes of the staves descend from the same ancestral West Greek alphabet that Latin does. We can tell because of which staves make which sounds, like ᛒ making /b/ instead of /v/, or ᚹ making /w/ instead of /p/ or /r/ (which is why ᚱ and R look identical: they both descend from the West Greek stroked rho).

>>23335190
>the Eddas and the Sagas
These were written in like the 12th and 13th centuries, long after Christian conversion. In fact, I'm sure many of these were written by actual Christians. Fucking kek, you are as Jewish as the people you ridicule.

>today is more important
>This is a living religion, and as it continues to live there will be more texts
Lol. As I said, your religion is just a modern fabrication, like Wicca, but I'm glad you agree. That's cool, I don't care what you believe, but passing off your Wiccan beliefs as some ancient Hermetic truth is peak cringe. Lmao.

>>23335169
Old English and Old Norse circa 1000AD or so were still mutually intelligible, and were considered as such into the 1200s. It wasn't until the second or third wave of the Christian cultural revolution that Scandinavia started fracturing into various separate ethnicities (the notion of a unified "Germanic Race" was a part of ancient Asatru that the Vatican wanted to beat out of the Germanics; there's letters from Catholic clergymen to Frankish kings congratulating them on rejecting it). Interestingly, this wasn't symmetrical: the Anglo-Saxons stopped considering themselves and the Norse as "the same people" before 1000AD, but the Norse kept thinking this into the 1200s. Saxo-Grammaticus records that continental Germanics stopped viewing themselves as the same people as Scandis by the 900s.

>>23335224
>It wasn't until the second or third wave of the Christian cultural revolution that Scandinavia started fracturing into various separate ethnicities (the notion of a unified "Germanic Race" was a part of ancient Asatru that the Vatican wanted to beat out of the Germanics; there's letters from Catholic clergymen to Frankish kings congratulating them on rejecting
Source? Not hostile I just want to read more about this.

>>23334953
Replies like this just show how utterly insane Western anti-Christian sentiment is. This guy is actually writing like there are only four or five white Christians left, and he expects everyone to play along with it.

>>23335222
>These were written in like the 12th and 13th centuries, long after Christian conversion
Firstly, no many of the Sagas were written well before the 12th-century and the Poetic Edda records poems from as far back as the 800sAD. Secondly, Asatru would continue to be practice for centuries after this period, not that it really matters because the Gods exist now, today, and they can be worshiped now, today.

>In fact, I'm sure many of these were written by actual Christians.
Are you suggesting that Christians are liars, or that Christianity moves one farther away from the divine?

>That's cool
I'm glad you think so. Religion is something that exists in real life, not on the internet.

>>23335231
>noooooooo you cant just look at the world around you and see where things are going to go, you have to bury your head in the sand!
Nope.

>>23335219
>This is what's called "moving the goalposts".
You're right. I should have clarified but I didn't. It is well known that writing was extremely rare.

>you're just wrong and are trying to backtrack.
Nope, that was something I'm right about. The alphabet itself is obviously old. But no one alive knows the true meanings of them. Using your own beliefs, I can prove this. In some sagas, wise men were able to manifest powerful and observable magical events by using these letters. You can't do that. No one you know can do that. So either it's fake, or it's because no one alive knows their original meanings.

>Abecedarium Nordmannicum
>The younger futhark, whose letters often coincidentally share the same sounds as the Latin alphabet
kek
Fehu looks like an F and has an F sound.
Uruz is an upside down U with a U sound.
Raido is an R and has an R sound.
Kenaz is similar to a K with a K sound.
etc. Pure coincidence, right?

>>23335228
I'm trying to google, but they've fucked over the algorithm and I can't find it now. There's a number of letters sent to Frankish kings that congratulate them on ditching their ancestral customs. One of them is to Charlemagne from a Bishop who congratulates him on only taking one wife instead of a wife plus concubines (he didn't actually do this lol).

>>23335234
The notion that Pagans are going to overtake Christianity among whites is not an objective, level-headed analysis of reality at all. We're talking about the only religion in the West against something that may as well not exist.

>>23335204
>anti-elitist, anti-university PHD recipient who posts hundreds of hours of free content elucidating norse texts sentence-by-sentence, actually publishes books and translates major works for public consumption -- but he disavows racism
>some long-haired faggot LARPer who never cites his sources and always romanticizes, misinterprets, or lies about source material. goes off on tangents about consuming drugs and cringe wicca-tier woo woo shit like having visions in which you experience the memories of your ancestors -- but he agrees with my stance on race/ethnicity within the practice so he's BASED unlike crawford
the real tragedy is that cringe LARPagans think that these are the only two options

>>23335246
>But no one alive knows the true meanings of them
Wrong again, we have five runepoems that detail what they mean, in addition to numerous other sources that explain what they are (including Odin himself saying so).

>In some sagas, wise men were able to manifest powerful and observable magical events by using these letters
And in the Torah Jews are able to fly, shoot lasers out of their eyes, cause earthquakes, and move masses of water around to let Jews cross seas.

>kek
I accept your concession, you indeed should have looked into this matter given that every single claim that you have made is incorrect.

>>23335253
>Jews are able to fly, shoot lasers out of their eyes, cause earthquakes, and move masses of water around to let Jews cross seas
its real, goy. this is the power of jewish blood. just because you can't accept it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

>>23335250
>The notion that Pagans are going to overtake Christianity among whites is not an objective, level-headed analysis of reality at all
The White Christian birthrate is under 2, the Asatru birthrate is over 4, so yes this literally will happen, that's how birthrates work.

>We're talking about the only religion in the West against something that may as well not exist.
Shit, the only mass religion in the West is totally subverted and a tool for Antiwhite interests from top to bottom? And the only chance we've got is still small? Fuck man, why are you punching right when you could be doing your part?

>>23335252
You still haven't posted your source about Crawford getting CVCKED and now you're bringing ANOTHER e-celeb into this? Come on dude.

>>23335232
>Are you suggesting that Christians are liars
Correct. They would have distorted your beliefs to fit their own worldview.

>that Christianity moves one farther away from the divine?
The fact that you somehow derived this from what I said is an astounding admission of your distorted perception.

>>23335253
>we have five runepoems that detail what they mean, in addition to numerous other sources that explain what they are (including Odin himself saying so)
All written many centuries after the creation of the alphabet. There are 0 texts in between the origination of the alphabet and your aforementioned texts. How can we possibly assume that the exact original meanings were preserved with 100% accuracy for centuries in an oral tradition? That's one hell of a leap of faith.

>And in the Torah Jews are able to fly, shoot lasers out of their eyes, cause earthquakes, and move masses of water around to let Jews cross seas.
Yeah, I'm not the one claiming to believe this shit lmao

>pagan protagonists in sagas
>portrayed as great heroic people, if a little violent
>pagan background characters in sagas
>portrayed as anti-social weirdos who are failures and don't do anything good

>>23334979
America does have a culture it’s just the default one, that’s why you’re seething.

>>23335262
>Correct
So, what you're saying is that Christianity is bad and moves people farther away from the divine. Why are you promoting it then?

>>23335116
Would you rather us as Presbyterians, Liam? Because I’m not a metaphysical determinist.

>>23335258
>The White Christian birthrate is under 2, the Asatru birthrate is over 4, so yes this literally will happen, that's how birthrates work.
Lmao. Assuming current trends (which would be retarded) continue the only thing that will change is that e-pagans will still be unnoticeable while Mormons and Amish will be much larger. I'm glad you people are so vocal online, because every time you write stupid shit like this it severely discredits your movement.
>Shit, the only mass religion in the West is totally subverted and a tool for Antiwhite interests from top to bottom?
Western pagans are not super based by comparison. Non-Christian religion in the West tends to vote strongly left and half of all the self-styled pagans think being a fag is awesome.

>>23335262
>How can we possibly assume that the exact original meanings were preserved with 100% accuracy for centuries in an oral tradition?
Anon you're roleplaying as a Christian which means that you are required to believe that the Jews preserved the entire Oral and Written Torah 100% accurately between 4000BC up to 300BC, could you at least pretend to not be an idiot?

>>23335146
>Even during the Viking era they were not a homogenous society.
According to the Icelandic Heruli theory most "Viking" culture is from a relatively small group of people who migrated multiple times from Scandinavia to the Black Sea and back. According to the theory they were around 30% Christian before they migrated back to Norway and colonized Iceland. Some of the original settlers reported in the Sagas were Christian when they arrived.
>>23335246
>You can't do that. No one you know can do that
Are you sure? A runestone can organize power. A meme can create armies.
Phonetic runes were spread by literally Hercules when he went North from Atlantis through Iberia and France where his power over runes made him a demigod.

>>23335263
clear anti-semitism.

>>23335270
>Mormons and Amish will be much larger.
The White Mormon birthrate is below replacement and the Amish apostasize at near 100% when their population gets above carrying capacity (which is a couple hundred per country).

>Western pagans are not super based by comparison.
It's a religion that doesn't let in LGBTBBQ and nonwhites, so yes, it's very based compared to the religion that excommunicates you for being prowhite or antilgbt.

>Non-Christian religion in the West tends to vote strongly left
Yes, I'm aware that Nonwhites vote strongly left, just like White Christians, what's your point?

>>23335270
I like how you lost on theology and history so now you have to lose on current year politics.

>>23335268
>So, what you're saying is that Christianity is bad and moves people farther away from the divine.
No, I'm saying Christian scholars at the time were heavily biased and did not value truth.

>Why are you promoting it then?
Show me a single post where I promote Christianity. Just one post.

>>23335271
>you're roleplaying as a Christian
Why do you both resort to such strawmans? Again, show me a single post where I claimed to be a Christian or promoted Christianity in any way.

>>23335272
>Are you sure?
With 100% certainty, I am sure.

>>23335279
>just like White Christians
White Christians are the right-leaning voting bloc in every white country. Without them, no right-wing sentiment would be detectable in the West. When you engage in insane reality-denial like this it makes you look as delusional as race communists.

>>23335290
>White Christians are the right-leaning voting bloc in every white countr
White Christians are also the Left-leaning voting bloc in every White country, and the degree of support for Left causes and ideals correlates directly with intensity of belief in Christianity and knowledge of its doctrines. The opposite is true of Right-leaning causes and ideals: the more Right-leaning someone is, the less they know about and believe in Christianity. This is just a fact, if you want to engage in race-communist tier delusions and insane mental gymnastics, that's on you.

But it's clearly achieving nothing: you can't go into any Christian church in the West and say what you believe without getting kicked out and excommunicated. All you're doing is making yourself miserable and looking for reasons to stay at home and wallow in self pity. So, why not change that?

>>23335287
You literally just made a post about how the BASED Amish and TRAD Mormons are going to make so many babies that everyone will have to vote Trump, dude.

>>23335287
>No, I'm saying Christian scholars at the time were heavily biased and did not value truth.
Well fuck, this Christianity business sounds like a crock of shit. Why are you telling people to reject the truth and embrace this shit then, given that by your own admission it leads people away from the truth.

>>23335306
>White Christians are also the Left-leaning voting bloc in every White country
No they're not. They may participate a bit in it, but they are not *the* left bloc, which is atheists, unmarried women, and immigrants. Everything you write is just an incredibly disingenuous attempt to skirt around the obvious.
>and the degree of support for Left causes and ideals correlates directly with intensity of belief in Christianity and knowledge of its doctrines
>This is just a fact
It is not. Incredible that you just expected me to accept this lazy and nonsensical statement.

>>23335307
>You literally just made a post about how the BASED Amish and TRAD Mormons are going to make so many babies
No I didn't... But I suppose if taking random posts from other conversations allows you to cope, then go for it.

>>23335311
>Why are you telling people to reject the truth and embrace this shit
Never once did that.
Given your uncontrollable obsession with using Christianity as a frame of reference for every thought that crosses your mind, perhaps we are getting to the true root of your belief system. You have the mind of a teenager.

>>23335287
>With 100% certainty, I am sure.
How?
I do magic with symbols all the time. It's easy. People have recently figured out how to use symbols to summon fully verbally capable demons and you're still le skeptical?

>>23335061
It's just another shit flinging thread based on fake bait.

Thule society isn't sending their best.
It actually is their best.

>>23335328
>People have recently figured out how to use symbols to summon fully verbally capable demons and you're still le skeptical?
Ah, you're one of those cringe tik tok kids that believes they can levitate and transform into animals. Absolute kek. This is the type of person I've been talking to.

>>23335335
>Ah, you're one of those cringe tik tok kids that believes they can levitate and transform into animals. Absolute kek. This is the type of person I've been talking to.
Why would you say something like this? What type of person are you?

its another e celeb you never knew existed has a scandal and op acts like im supposed to care episode

>>23335316
>No they're not.
Hey man, if you want to engage in race-communist tier delusions and insane mental gymnastics, that's on you. But again, it's clearly not helping, and it's not unseating the supermajority of Left leaning clergy who define what Christianity as an institution is.

>>23335346
I'm the verbally capable demon you summoned when you were playing with your runes in your parents' bathroom.

>>23335323
But you said in >>23335316 that we have to be Christian.

>>23335323
>enter pagan thread
>say things that pagans know are factually incorrect
>be upset when they prove you wrong
What did you expect to happen? Something different from what happens literally every single time you fags do this?

>>23335359
Can't tell if you're retarded or desperate. You just took a random post from a completely unconnected conversation to make me out to be a Christian. Let me ask: why is your argument so profoundly contingent upon me being a Christian, to the extent that you have to pretend I'm someone else? Why are you like this?

>>23335364
>factually incorrect
Nothing I said is factually incorrect except that I failed to clarify that ancient Norse writings were extremely rare. Everything else I said was correct: your religion is a modern fabrication barely more valid than Wicca.

>>23335372
>Nothing I said is factually incorrect
Except literally everything that you've posted lmfao

>>23335373
>You're just wrong, ok?
Like I said, mind of a teenager.

>>23334518
Reddit, newfag.

>>23334691
>>23334502
>Old Norse youtuber got into drama with girlfriend, she broke up and released tons of texts revealing he's a cuck with a bbc fetish

Former alcholic-- that's where it went, eh

>>23335252
>anti-elitist, anti-university PHD recipient who posts hundreds of hours of free content elucidating norse texts sentence-by-sentence, actually publishes books and translates major works for public consumption

Scott Adams is another example-- he was furnished with a hot literally girl next door neighbor from his alma mater (single mother, exactly his type), to disastrous ends. Crawford is the kind of mark for just that sort of honey pottage given his subject matter expertise and what it implicity backstops.

>disavows racism

All question begging exercises are for surreptitious purposes and do not require assent much less acknowledgement;-- it is, functionally, akin to stating "I'm not anti-communist and won't resist." Not that the equivocation entails literal '40s German and Italian-isms, but that's the point of the cart before the horse meets well poisoning exercise.

>>23335372
>your religion is a modern fabrication barely more valid than Wicca.
But enough about Eastern Orthodoxy, let's get back to Asatru.

>>23335382
I know right? This dork thinks that if he keeps telling a lie these Pagans won't just keep calling him out on it. It's hilarious.

>>23335385
Your religion is like Kwanzaa; a tenuous belief system designed to make edgy losers feel good about themselves. Cope and seethe.

>>23335357
I'm not the neopagan. The runestones of Hercules defined borders even after they were lost. That's one form of power. Using symbols for structured logic like can be reproduced in computers is another. Some thinking, intelligent adult with no tradition of written symbols will intuitively sense the power symbols can bring when they see them used.

>>23334565
/thread

>>23335372
>>23335405
>your religion is a modern fabrication barely more valid than Wicca.
The hardline larpagans claim that the religion is bound to and inscribed in the race/blood/volk, so you just have to "listen to the blood" to recreate trve Odinism without historical account.

>>23334914
the people in that picture rally and riot against sodomy and liberalism while you jerk off to trap threads spilling your PVRE ARYAN VRIL ENERGY onto a paper towel so who's the real jew puppet here

>>23335410
Did Hercules use the futhark runes? If not, then your interjection is utterly pointless because I never even denied the potential power of symbols. My point was that every text that references the meanings of the futhark alphabet were written many centuries after the oldest futhark artifacts. Again, it requires a profound leap of faith to believe the original meanings retained 100% of their accuracy by only being passed down orally through many centuries before someone decided to actually write it down.

Greco-Romanism >>>>>> (((Germanic mythology > Christian mythology)))

>>23335426
>it requires a profound leap of faith to believe the original meanings retained 100% of their accuracy
That's the value of phonetic alphabets, introduced by Hercules and adopted by people that eventually developed Futhark, a very similar script.
When used to represent phonetic text we can assume that was the main intent even if each letter can have some other mythical meaning. A in English when traced far back enough comes from a picture of a cow but that doesn't imply I'm referencing cows when I use the symbol.

>>23335423
>The hardline larpagans claim that the religion is bound to and inscribed in the race/blood/volk, so you just have to "listen to the blood" to recreate trve Odinism without historical account.
Funny, that's literally what Afrocentrists say as well.

>>23335441
Can you explain why the futhark, as a phonetic alphabet, shares so many letters with the Latin alphabet?

>>23335423
It is though.
Maybe you just aren’t aryan, anon. Have you gotten a DNA test recently?

>>23335529
>t. Benedict Garcia

His pronunciation of old languages seems very unnatural

>>23335453
What is there to explain? Look it up. Latin is partly based on Etruscan runes.

Pathetic fetishes aside, it’s a bit of a black pill that you can can be a successful professor and scholar living on a Colorado ranch and you STILL cannot get a girlfriend that is not a disloyal whore who will broadcast your most private information to the world just to spite you when she gets pissed off.

>>23335169
? The Gauls and Saxons were totally different people

>>23334870
He had a bullshit master’s in history from a third rate university that anyone can get.

>>23335552
I like his recitation of Beowulf

>>23335753
Yea I didn’t even know how to start to reply to that post.
>>23335756
Lol, cope you dropout faggot.

>>23334502
That's cool and all but his translation of the Havamal is still excellent
t. Catholic

Why is this thread still up

>>23335802
big black cock is board culture

>>23335753
shit i forgot that the gauls were distantly french. what were the germanics that probably encountered romans, might’ve included encounters as myth, then became the scandinavian/viking esque culture of the 600-900’s germans? at what point in history did their culture begin to shift towards what we associate with vikings?

I like this guy because unlike almost any other pagan cultural figure, he stayed in his lane. He was fine with a certain culture not being the secret founders of every civilization, and the ruling elite of any kingdom that accomplished anything.
People like STJ cannot handle the idea that someone else than vikangz built da pyramids and ruled rome mmmmhm.

>>23335423
Odin literally says in the hávamál that rites are of secondary importance, so it's canonical.

>>23336234
It's not an organized religion and never was. It had no Paul. The closest thing is Snorri, the Christian you're referencing who tells us what Óðinn said. There are people who practice the passed down form instead of products of the romantic era and those passed down forms are intertwined with an isolated form of Christianity with occult connections. The folk magic staves people tattoo on themselves thinking they're le based pure white whatever are all partly based on Kabballah.

Christianity came to Denmark via three prongs. First the Celtic church which had a small surge in power and educated thought in the British isles around the fall of Rome. Later the pope through Franks. The third and most interesting prong is the Christianity brought by elite mercenaries travelling to and from Constantinople via northern rivers.
The Notre Dame was built with help from similar eastern Christians who left imagery that only makes sense in light of their now "esoteric" interpretations that the modern mind tends to see as "Platonist". The cult of the virgin emerged around reinterpretations of this imagery and the Templars later adopted much of it again from the east.

The ruling families in Europe tend to come from the elite bellicose mercenaries with some branches becoming the "vikings". Carolingian France, Lombardian Italy, post-Gothic Aquitaine, Spain and North-Africa, basically the western Roman empire was taken by mercenary "dukes" of Rome. The mercenary cultures operated by constantly migrating through the river networks, mostly the routes around Ukraine to Scandinavia but also to Italy, trading, raiding and offering their services as mercenaries or even lords. The name Goth means lord, they called themselves the Lords and presented the arrangement of being conquered as beneficial for their subjects, a service.