/lit/ - Literature

>>23294246
>Does pic-related actually work?
No. Imagine writing out 48 principles that seem at least somewhat logical, then looking through historic sources to find one or two examples of how that may or may not have played a role in a person's success, then ascribing 100% of that success to the principle that may or may not have been relevant.

>>23294320
Then which book works?

>>23294343
not even joking

>>23294343
Works for what? What do you mean by "winning"?

Follow all of those if you want to literally be Sam Hyde.
you probably don't want to be Sam Hyde. Put one foot wrong and everyone thinks you're a weirdo psychopath, because you are.

>12 of laws of how to be a moustache twirling movie villain but all repeated four times because otherwise the book would have been 100 pages
some faggot actually made millions with this shit didn't he

>>23294246

>>23294246
is this book good if i don't give a fuck about cringe selfhelp egoistic bullshit, but i just want to read a collection of fun historical trivia about machiavellan (in the popular usage of this word) realpolitik divide & conquer characters?

>>23294438
Someone like Gates or Bezos. Not that I want to be a billionaire. I hope Gates is a pedo, I don't to be a pedo either. nmkr

>>23294704
The thing with people who "win" like Gates, Bezos and Epstein, is that they reach a level of understanding in which they finally realize that God and the afterlife are mere pipe dreams, and that the closest thing to a heaven is wallowing in sexual depravity. No "goodness of humanity" bullshit, but whatever gets my dick cumming.

>>23294663
>i just want to read a collection of fun historical trivia about machiavellan (in the popular usage of this word) realpolitik
To a degree. The problem is that the author withholds a lot of meaningful variables in order to make it seem like the "law" he's talking about accounts for the entire outcome. You can learn some neat historical facts.

>>23294704
You seem to have only an extremely vague idea of what you even want to do. I'm not a billionaire but I will tell you one thing: both Gates and Bezos knew what they were doing; they had a specific idea and goal in mind and it just grew over time. No book can give you your specific goal for you.

But if you have already set a purpose for yourself, I'd probably recommend 3 books:
1. Psycho-Cybernetics. The premise is that your outcomes in life are largely determined by your subconscious beliefs and decisions, which are tied to your self-identity. Thus, by changing your self-identity you can change your outcomes
2. Atomic Habits. Similar underlying premise as Psycho-Cybernetics, but shows you how to use changes in your identity to develop better systems of habits. "You do not rise to the level of your goals; you fall to the level of your systems." This is valuable because extraordinary success is almost never the result of one thing; it is almost always the result of many, many small correct decisions that compound into excess wealth.
3. The Talent Code. If your goals involve specific skills (like music, programming, chess, sports, math, etc.) this book is an absolute gem. It teaches you the basic neuroscience of how skill is developed in your brain, and teaches you how to most efficiently develop skills using those concepts.

Another piece of advice: don't spend too much time reading shit. Read these basic books and you'll have more than you need. Action is a lot more valuable than raw knowledge.

>>23294758
>both Gates and Bezos knew what they were doing; they had a specific idea and goal in mind and it just grew over time
They sold their souls to Satan and their agents on Earth. That's it.

>>23294246
Picrel

>>23294797
What if I don't speak Nazi?

>>23294788
If that's what you want to tell yourself.

>>23294843
lmao this nigga thinks he's gonna become a millionare with the 'right mindset'. nigga, you need to sell drugs for that. it's the only way.

>>23294805
Learn it. It is worth it. Kant, Hegel, Nietzsche, Göthe, Kafka and Marx etc. I just thought if you could read German if you remove all articles and learn the most common 1000 words. Ignore conjugation and declination and just learn some phrases. You should be able to read most of the easier books in German and then step up and read the big ones

>>23294860
>Learn it. It is worth it
Then proceeds to list:
>a manlet
>a demonically possessed schizophrenic
>an incel
>a faggot
>a kike
>marx

>>23294704
Fuck. I meant I hope Gate is not a pedo*

>>23294797
>>23294860
Is there no english translation? How come?

>>23294246
This just sounds like a guide to being a sociopath.

I guess sociopaths do end up on top though.

>>23294884
If I knew someone who read that book, I wouldn't trust that mf in the slightest.

>>23294883
Afaik not. This guy is a German professor and has a YouTube channel for game theory. He is not popular enough to have his books translated. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSExr_QUT6h-4sGW5hGjrCA

>>23294865
Isn't that a based list. Different impressions. Get the full range of ideas. No other language has more to offer. I add Feuerbach, Fichte and Max Stirner.

>>23294704
Bill Gates was the son of rich parents. Bezos was likewise born to a relatively well off family. So was Elon Musk, and many, many other people at the top of society. Basically, if you weren't born into a rich family, you can't "win". You can lose less than others, but you'll never "win".

>>23294933
>Different impressions. Get the full range of ideas.
All of that is just demonically inspired crypto-gnostic nonesense. Literary the foundations of everything that's wrong with modern society.

>>23294859
No, I'm already very close to being a millionaire by taking enough calculated risks until I got a foothold. But yeah, if you tell yourself that the only way to get rich is by doing something morally repugnant, you'll always be able to feel self righteous for being poor.

>>23294958
>"I-i'm not coping, y-you are! I'm g-going to be a real millionare!"
Get some lub ready, baby. Because they're coming for (and in) your ass.

>>23294967
I feel for you if you're stuck in a bad place.

>>23294975
Not as bad as you're gonna be in no time. You're playing with fire, so your ass is getting burned.

>>23294954
>crypto-gnostic nonsense
Punch word nonsense.

What's wrong with thinkers writing down their silly ideas. Even if their ideas are poison for the society then it is the fault of the politicians, elites and aristocrats that they became reality. The clerks and workers back then didn't read it nor do even people today except some schizo minorities. All these thoughts are part of the 1800s Zeitgeist and the synthesis of the periods before, to say it in Hegels words.

FTFY

>>23294343
small bits of a lot of different books

>>23294246
>Assume formlessess
What does this mean?

>>23296028
Be a social chameleon probably.

Just read The Prince. A man should run his own life like a prince runs a country.

>>23294860
Interesting
How much time it takes me to learn nazi language anon?
t. Already trilingual

>>23294246
Winning at life is fairly easy. How old are you?

>>23294865
>a manlet
Nothing wrong with manlets, unless there's something wrong with 'em.

>>23294246
>never outshine the master
I get it but it also sounds weak and lame

>>23295017
what this from?

>>23296028
Become EXTREMELY fat.

>>23294943
>Basically, if you weren't born into a rich family, you can't "win". You can lose less than others, but you'll never "win".
This is why I kind of like socialism, but emboldened with greatest, allowing the maximum amount of individuals to achieve self-actualisation, which is the highest ideal of life. Post-modern-ish, Nietzschean, Heideggerian, Marxist, virtue-based traditionalism, but in quasi-fascistic sort of way.

This is not oxymoronic, it's coherent. I just have to formulate it, an "end of history" ideology, if you like.

>>23294320
I'm surprised of all Greene's books, Seduction doesn't get more shit.

Greene literally self described as a Rake a decade ago and on a recent podcast on Youtube he said his dating life revolves around Skype.

In Laws of Human Nature, he's blatantly seething about Trump. I never followed Robert Greene on Facebook, but my dad says he was Trump seething there too.

He was on a different podcast maybe 5 years ago where he bragged about "trolling the trolls."

>>23294622
Why do you say its only 12 laws repeated 4 times.

Which Laws do you think should be consolidated?

>>23294758
>The problem is that the author withholds a lot of meaningful variables in order to make it seem like the "law" he's talking about accounts for the entire outcome. You can learn some neat historical facts.
What info does he withhold?

>>23294943
Shut the fuck up, you fucking loser faggot. You waste of ejaculate. You fucking disgrace. You spiritless, fireless worm. You scum from the vaginal canal of your mother. You are the weak link in the chain of your ancestry. You are the bottom 1% of your country. Kill yourself, you fucking waste of oxygen masquerading as a human life.

>>23294246
>Tragic
>Life Affirmative
>Dionysian
>Cucks Christians
what more do you want?

>>23299361
>fat vidya-coomer hands typed this

>>23294246
>41. Don't seem too perfect
>46. Never appear too perfect

really? At least make an effort in making them sound different

>>23299361
Bruh Guts is a born Chad. No way any anon can even reach half of him.

>>23299405
this but with >>23294246

>>23299485
the 4chan pass just confirms it

>>23294246
The greeks unironically.

>>23294246
>Does pic-related actually work?
If it worked why would someone who knew about it want to share it with others?
Also, I haven't read it, but it seems to demand almost god-like abilities from whoever attempts to abide by these 'rules' - its one thing saying "crush your enemy totally", but its another thing actually being able to do it.

>>23296699

Idk I am a native speaker but I have some friends that learned it (Spanish background and arabic) and both can hold a conversation with some mistakes and read after 2-3 years living here. So for a person with three languages (especially Indo Germanic languages) it should take too long. But it isn't worth it to learn only for some books desu.

>>23294246
Wtf, is this the "secret knowledge" that is in this book? I do almost half of these points subconsciously. Is this seriously unknown technology for normoids?

>>23299341
NTA but did you even read the list?

>2 - Don't trust Friends, use enemies
>13 - Pose as a friend, work as a spy

>26 - Always seem effortless
> 48 - Assume formlessness

>39 - Win both hearts and minds
> 43 - Work on the hearts and minds of others

>41 - Don't seem too perfect
>46 - Never appear too perfect

Please explain how any of these pairs of rules are meaningfully different. 39/43 and 41/46 are particularly egregious, they're literally saying the exact same thing just phrased slightly differently.

>>23300153
Tell us which ones you do unconsciously.

>>23294246
I would recommend the "Laws of Power" if you're born to a fortune or kingship or something. For everyone else I would suggest his book "Mastery" instead.
Also "seduction" has only one really good part and it's the centerfold (lol) where he lists out the different romantic archetypes and how they work.

>>23294343
"Mastery"
or if you're a creative type "Daily Rituals"
or if you're an office drone type "four thousand weeks"

>>23300242
2 has a lesson about how the greatest allies are often former enemies that can be granted clemency.
14, not 13, is about the necessity of knowing what the competition is doing.

26 is about making people believe in you by hiding all the had work you've done
48 is a battle tactic where if you're unpredictable or have no clear weak points, it's hard to overtake you

43 paraphrased is "coercion will make people react against you. Instead make people want to help you
I don't see a
>39 - Win both hearts and minds

41 is "avoid stepping into a great man's shoes" which means that Bill Gate's son is a loser that can never be bill gates 2 because bill gates only existed in one span of history. Heirs have to do something else, change something to be known as greater instead of lesser.
1 is "never outshine the master" and that's a funny one to start out with but it's pretty decent. Don't offend your tutors or they might betray you

OP fucked up.

>>23299457
>>41. Don't seem too perfect
>>46. Never appear too perfect
fake duplicate.
41. Avoid stepping into a great man's shoes.
46. Never appear perfect.

>>23300242
>>39 - Win both hearts and minds
>> 43 - Work on the hearts and minds of others
39. Stir up waters to catch fish.
43. Work on the hearts and minds of others.

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20120505153711/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_48_Laws_of_Power

If you want me to explain how
>>2 - Don't trust Friends, use enemies
>>13 - Pose as a friend, work as a spy
wrong number.
13. When asking for help, appeal to people's self-interests, never to their mercy or gratitude.
are meaningfully different, the former is about friends can be ungrateful, when you need them most, they can keep asking for more. I'll grant I can't think of too many practical ways to "use enemies." the example in the book, is a Chinese emperor who bribes all his competitors with free shit, so they won't bother trying to behead him for the crown. The closest he gets to actually "using an enemy" is the one guy of a rival empire who's offered a glass, he believes is poison, and is given a position on the emperor's royal court, where it nebulously states "he became his most loyal and trusted friend" without explaining any positive shit he actually did.
To find a better example you have to scroll out of the "Observance of the Law" into the "Keys to Power" where it mentions that Talleyrand, the foreign minister to Napolean, eventually decided that Napolean was fucking shit up, and decided to collude with a hated enemy, Fouche of the secret police. "[Talleyrand] knew that Fouche would expect nothing from him, and in fact would work to prove that he was worthy of Talleyrand's choice; [...] his relationship with Fouche would be based on mutual self-interest." Odd that this wasn't the Observance, since it's far more relevant. (cont'd)

>>23300287
>Bill Gate's son is a loser that can never be bill gates 2
The Famous Bill Gates of Microsoft is already Bill Gates the 3rd. His father looks almost exactly like him. Also he benefited from being the son of wealthy lawyers.

>>23300326
well it looks like he followed the rule then by not being a lawyer
I'm considering law school

>>23300323
>>23299457
>>23300242

FULL LIST OF 48 LAWS OF POWER BECAUSE OP FUCKED UP.

1 Never outshine the master ...
2 Never put too much trust in friends; learn how to use enemies.
3 Conceal your intentions.
4 Always say less than necessary.
5 So much depends on reputation. Guard it with your life.
6 Court attention at all costs.
7 Get others to do the work for you, but always take the credit.
8 Make other people come to you; use bait if necessary.
9 Win through your actions, never through argument.
10 Infection: avoid the unhappy and unlucky.
11 Learn to keep people dependent on you.
12 Use selective honesty and generosity to disarm your victim.
13 When asking for help, appeal to people's self-interests, never to their mercy or gratitude.
14 Pose as a friend, work as a spy.
15 Crush your enemy totally.
16 Use absence to increase respect and honor.
17 Keep others in suspended terror: cultivate an air of unpredictability.
18 Do not build fortresses to protect yourself. Isolation is dangerous.
19 Know who you're dealing with; do not offend the wrong person.
20 Do not commit to anyone.
21 Play a sucker to catch a sucker: play dumber than your mark.
22 Use the surrender tactic: transform weakness into power.
23 Concentrate your forces.
24 Play the perfect courtier.
25 Re-create yourself.
26 Keep your hands clean.
27 Play on people's need to believe to create a cultlike following.
28 Enter action with boldness.
29 Plan all the way to the end.
30 Make your accomplishments seem effortless.
31 Control the options: get others to play with the cards you deal.
32 Play to people's fantasies.
33 Discover each man's thumbscrew.
34 Be royal in your fashion: act like a king to be treated like one.
35 Master the art of timing.
36 Disdain things you cannot have: Ignoring them is the best revenge.
37 Create compelling spectacles.
38 Think as you like but behave like others.
39 Stir up waters to catch fish.
40 Despise the free lunch.
41 Avoid stepping into a great man's shoes.
42 Strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter.
43 Work on the hearts and minds of others.
44 Disarm and infuriate with the mirror effect.
45 Preach the need for change, but never reform too much at once.
46 Never appear perfect.
47 Do not go past the mark you aimed for; in victory, learn when to stop.
48 Assume formlessness.

>>23300242
>>23294622
>>23299457
>
>>26 - Always seem effortless
wrong number
26. Keep your hands clean.
>> 48 - Assume formlessness
The way these are substantively different is that seeming like you can do great work without exerting effort is very different than not committing to a singular identity, when you can constantly change what your identity is. They're really not even close to similar except they both contain the suffix "-less."

>>23300273
Personally: 3-5, 10,14, 17, 19, 21, 22, 25, 34, 41/46
3 4 and 5 are so painfully obvious, especially if you're not an extroverted person
14, 18, 19, 20 should also be obvious to anyone
>30. Plan to the End
Seriously? I'm not good at long term goals but it's something I know I have to improve, as well as following through with them
47 can be learned from gambling or playing in fictional or real stock markets
The rest of these sound like edgy sigma male drivel that muddle up the rest of the actual sound (albeit obvious) advice

>>23300323
>If you want me to explain how
>>>2(Dead) - Don't trust Friends, use enemies
>>>13(Dead) - Pose as a friend, work as a spy
And obviously that's very different than spying on someone to learn their weaknesses, or interests.

>>23300357
>>23300356
>>23300351
>>23300341
jesus christ shut up these are giving me a headache

>>23300365
>jesus christ shut up these are giving me a headache
no

>>23300356
>The rest of these sound like edgy sigma male drivel that muddle up the rest of the actual sound (albeit obvious) advice
How does Not Filling A Great Man's Shoes or Introduce Change Gradually sound like Sigma Male Drivel?

>>23300365

>>23300369
An overgeneralization done out of laziness and apprehension against this book for being overrated. My bad
Is this better?
>Half of these laws are sound advice, if not painfully obvious, while the other half is edgy tryhard stuff that makes people think this book will make them into ultimate Sigma males

>>23300404
the point is you have to will yourself to be a so called "edgy tryhard" if you want to be a true sigma and reap the rewards

>>23294246
>48 laws of power
why do people consider this book such a meme

>>23301761
The same reason people dismiss pick up artists.
They want to pretend they are above the power games that life places us in, or as a woman or member if privileged society they've never needed to give it much thought. Or they're a weak s o y boy who thinks of success as inherently sinful and has smug crab in bucket attitude about it.

That said, I will make the doubly ironic observation that Robert Greene's Art Of Seduction is a book you never hear about because its fucking useless trash. Read War, Mastery instead and maybe Human Nature if you're still a little hungry.

>>23301761
Greene makes bizarre claims in bizarre ways - he'll present an historical anecdote, one sufficiently interesting on its own, and apply a fanciful hermeneutic to extract a predetermined principle from it. And at each anecdote's end, he will stress the very opposite of the same principle he just spent time belaboring, giving each chapter a confused koan-esque structure.

The best thing I can say about this is that it is not sufficiently scholarly for the scope of the thesis. Machiavelli initiated projects similar in tone and intent, but his study of the ancients is rigorous and thorough, his interpretations solid, his genius evident - Greene demonstrates none of these qualities.

It is enough to appreciate it for what it is, being a self-help sort of layman toolkit on power dynamics, if not for the bizarreness I alluded to being especially prominent when his writes on subjects for which he is clearly out of his depth. It is difficult for his arguments to sustain any seriousness when he blunders so ludicrously.

If this book were a collection of stories pulled from history and grouped by Greene without the "these are the immutable laws of power" tag as the point of departure, it could be recommended. His other books may indeed already be like this.

>>23302152
>his study of the ancients is rigorous and thorough, his interpretations solid, his genius evident - Greene demonstrates none of these qualities.
>>23302152
>if not for the bizarreness I alluded to being especially prominent when his writes on subjects for which he is clearly out of his depth. It is difficult for his arguments to sustain any seriousness when he blunders so ludicrously.
PLEASE GO ON.
I LOVE GREENE AND WANT TO CONSOOM MORE OF YOUR CRITIQUE.

>>23294396
kino

>>23294246
if you translate the book into ancient cantonese then back into english you can larp that youre reading sun tzu and youll probably get more out of it

>>23302318
I don't think you've read the book.

>>23294246
>tired of losing
>voluntarily loses money on 4chan pass