/lit/ - Literature

Basic leftist chart with good books

What are we thinking of Kobo Abe brocialists? Ive read Lady in the Dunes and Box Man. Anything else by him I should check out?

>>23256991
https://www.nationalists.org/library/hitler/25-points.html
>9. All citizens of the State shall be equal as regards rights and duties.

>10. It must be the first duty of each citizen of the State to work with his mind or with his body. The activities of the individual may not clash with the interests of the whole, but must proceed within the frame of the community and be for the general good.

We demand therefore:

>11. Abolition of incomes unearned by work.

Abolition of the Thralldom of interest

>12. In view of the enormous sacrifice of life and property demanded of a nation by every war, personal enrichment due to a war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. We demand therefore ruthless confiscation of all war gains.

>13. We demand nationalization of all businesses which have been up to the present formed into companies (trusts).

>14. We demand that the profits from wholesale trade shall be shared out.

>15. We demand extensive development of provision for old age.

>16. We demand creation and maintenance of a healthy middle class, immediate communalization of wholesale business premises, and their lease at a cheap rate to small traders, and that extreme consideration shall be shown to all small purveyors to the State, district authorities and smaller localities.

>17. We demand land reform suitable to our national requirements, passing of a law for confiscation without compensation of land for communal purposes; abolition of interest on land loans, and prevention of all speculation in land.

>We demand ruthless prosecution of those whose activities are injurious to the common interest. Sordid criminals against the nation, usurers, profiteers, etc. must be punished with death, whatever their creed or race.

Some text from a great socialist manifesto.

>>23256998
Leninist Chart
>>23257000
I have read Mishima, Kenzaburo Oe, but not Abe. How does he compare to his contemporaries?

>>23257006
Anti-work chart, the problem with work is a must read

forgot the chart...
>>23257003
Abolition of Thralldom is a good introductory text for anons who don't know anything

>>23257028
This could do without the anti-semitism

>>23256991
As an trans woman of colour, what would my place be after the revolution?

>>23257039
I never bothered to read the text on the right, but I agree. Just look at the books.

Actual feminism

>>23256991
How does this kill all whitoids and achieve trans rights?

>>23256998
>communist manifesto

The Marx-Engels Reader would be better.

>>23256991
>Labour creates value because.... BECAUSE IT JUST DOES OKAY???

>>23256998
>no bordiga

>>23257287
t.didn't read marx

>>23256991
How do we recover, Bros?

>>23257287
How does it not create value?

>>23257039
I agree.
im trans btw

>dude if no one did any labour things would just magically produce themselves

What's some major RIGHTOID copes?

Bump

>>23257323
>le you didn't read it meme

canned response by asshurt commies
read it a thousand times

>>23257377
because demand & supply do
Anyone who says anything different is a retard who has never worked a day in his life (or better: provided goods and services to a customer)

>>23257540
so you clearly actually didn't read marx, because marx discusses how supply&demand relate to labor in determining value in chapter one of capital.

>>23257419
>seriously recommending Cockshott and Wolff

These two niggers are a serious embarrassment to their respective fields.
Especially cockshott. The only reason you see him quoted constantly is because socialists are literally too stupid to understand computational runtime complexity - a basic CS problem the man stubbornly keeps ignoring (or rather, he doesn't mention it when it comes to extrapolation of historic data - cause you know, inputs for linear optimization just fall from the sky)
An absolute fuckin embarrassment.

>>23257547
I know marx discusses this
iirc he mostly brushes it aside as a parameter that just leads to fluctuation of the prices.

And that is wrong.

>>23256991
Bordigabros? How are we feeling about Value tonight?

>>23256991
>Socialist Literature General

>>23258281
this
>>23256991
you need to go back to your shithole

>>23256991
not specifically socialist but definitely socialist aligned, check out Christian Anarchism for some leftist Christian commentaries on the Gospel as political works

>>23257362
read the book and he tells you

>>23257362
By listening to jungle music and doing meth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb38j6ejpsc

What more do socialists even want to achieve in Europe? It's already a socialist shithole with taxrape everywhere.
>le hecking tax the rich
yeah because they can't just escape. It always ends up being the middle class getting more taxes.
>le hecking tax the corporations
starting a business is incredibly risky and the chances that you fail or don't make money are far greater than the other. If you tax them harder there is literally no incentive to start a business. plus as already mentioned the ultra rich can just escape.

>>23256991
All of you live in first world developed countries and are probably from middle class and up backgrounds. Therefore, all of you have lived lives of comfort, physical luxury and instant access to information and entertainment approaching if not exceeding that of a Roman Emperor.

Your problems are almost certainly not to do with material needs. Your problems are just psychological.

Therefore, your interest in socialism and radically changing our entire society and economic system can only be based on
1) extreme compassion for labourers in the third world.
2) A way of dealing with your own weird mental issues.

Most of you probably never volunteer and homeless shelters or do things to help poor people in your area. This suggests you are not interested in assisting the poor.

Why do you want to change society? Do you have any fucking idea how fucking good shit is now for people like you?

>>23257040
The fucking gulag tranny, no communist revolutionary has ever supported trannies

>>23258596
You don't have to have extreme compassion to realize that Capitalism is unsustainable and, yes, cruel. It takes very little energy and, in fact, may be impossible to not do if you've simply taken the time to simply listen to their side. I think people who spend their time and energy volunteering are the greatest among all of us, and I would certainly do it more if I were a better version of myself. But I did make sure that my career was in dedication to those in need so I am an educator in a title 1 school. Of course, my lawmakers are cutting my funding and salary year after year while deriding my career choice.

>all of you have lived lives of comfort, physical luxury and instant access to information and entertainment approaching if not exceeding that of a Roman Emperor
I mean I really hope that the average person in the imperial core of the world's most powerful empire has a comparable standard of living to an emperor of the most powerful empire in the world over 1000 years in the past. Maybe I'm just optimistic? And I definitely think that was true in the 50, 60, and even up until the 70's when wages, productivity, living prices, deindustrialization, and anti-welfare austerity started to undermine the previously inflated status of American society leading to ever increasing destruction of that middle class you were talking about. Nowadays, a lot of young people in the middle class simply can't afford a middle class family in this economy. Of course, if I'm not having a good time in Capitalism it's my fault because I'm irresponsible or lazy but if I'm doing well you'll accuse me of being privileged? It honestly just feels like you don't want to listen to what socialist have to say and so you instead choose to try personally shaming any possible category of persons who disagree with you.

>>23258661
>listen to what socialist have to say
nta, then tell me what they have to say. first off start by stating your country, because Europe is already ultra socialist (except Switzerland, which is extremely libertarian and probably the most thriving of all European countries). I genuinely want to hear your points.

>>23258712
I'm American. I'm no great articulator of anything. The guides in this thread are essentially what I started reading. For something lighter, I would recommend Hakim on youtube.

I just hate rent bros, how can you justify people doing nothing other than owning something and making money from it. Abolish the rentier class

>>23258801
You want something, they supply it. Simple as.

>>23258801
If housing was made cheaper or even free, the general wage level would plummet in reaction to that. Read the Housing Question by Engels.

So what is the socialist reading list if you’re not interested specifically in Marxism? I’ve read Marx and just don’t find his writing compelling or even accurate. I’ve read some stuff from Lenin. Lenin was an interesting person but Leninism has major problems. I should probably go back and read Hegel. Then who? I’ve read that some of the intellectual forerunners of right wing socialism are John Ruskin and especially Thomas Carlyle.

>>23258870
Marxism, anarchism, or other sorts of utopian left-wing socialism*
Basically, I want to know about conservative flavors of socialism.

>>23258801
There’s always been a rentier class, and there basically always has to be. That’s my sincere opinion. But the real problem is not that a rentier class exists. It’s that the rentier class is incentivized and even encouraged to exploit the renter class, and to use real estate as a speculative investment vehicle.

>>23258712
Every Western country, including America, is in truth socialist, but it’s a very pernicious sort of socialist that socializes losses of large corporations and high net worth individuals while subjecting the middle and upper lower classes to the downsides of the market and the socialized upper. It’s billionaire’s socialism, basically. More severe in America. Less severe in Europe. But the same in both. When you have a government that literally prints money to bail out shares of multinational corporations and subsidizes their operations, you have socialism. You just have a socialism for the few.

>>23258874
>>23258870
Unironically start with the NSDAP. Nazi Germany had the most practical and realistic form of socialism, and was itself a reaction to the problems in Marxism and Leninism.

>>23258887
I have a really hard time believing that, just knowing what I know about the party and what I’ve read about them from writers like Spengler, who wrote an interesting essay about German socialism, and others. But I’m willing to investigate them out of intellectual curiosity. I do know that some NSDAP members cited Ruskin and Carlyle as influences. Do you have a particular reading list?

>>23258886
that isn't what socialism is, socialism isn't when the government gives you money

https://youtu.be/AGkcCn8IZGI?si=3-Stq8xwhhu81Zyj

Any books on the total failure of leftism to challenge capitalism and the subsequent retreat into impotent theorizing as a result? Anything on how Theory is now the equivalent of a former king of a defeated kingdom that is kept alive so he can be paraded around by his conquerors?

>>23257006

>>23259142
A Condemnation of the Renegades to Come

>>23258801
They are providing temporary housing to people who can't afford a house yet?
Agree on hoarders though

>>23258887
>Normies still fall for the "Nazis were socialists" meme

>>23259111
If you thought that was giving anyone money you’re a retard and need to read more

is this the official INFRARED thread for Haz viewers?

>>23259142
It’s not even clear that Western leftism ever intended to challenge capitalism. The only socialist regime in the West was Nazi Germany, which at the very least we could say was largely capitalist at some point. Otherwise, socialism most socialists on the left understand it only ever caught on outside of Weatern countries. What we got instead was a Progressive crony capitalism and that actually seems to be what leftists always wanted.

>>23259524
They were.

>>23259524
> retards still think socialism is just a strictly dogmatic economic system exclusively about property ownership and any system that doesn’t maintain state ownership 100% is not le heckin’ real socialist
You’re dumber than they are desu

>>23259524
TIK History did such immense damage to the socialist reputation it's hilarious.
He's also right

>>23259606
>>23259599
>>23259596
give me one reason why they were socialists. NOW

>>23259622
here are three

de-facto centralization of economic control under industry cartels/Reichsvereinigung
+
centralization of unions under a singular state-led worker's representation (Deutsche Arbeiterfront)
+
Unification of the executive and legislative branch (marxist leninsts love this one so much they still struggle to lay it off to this day)

All of these were taken over by Eastern Germany as well by the way.
Reichsvereinigung became a Kombinat
The DAF became the FDGB
The division of power just stayed the same (although there is no direct continuity due to the occupation)

Ulbricht and Honecker had roughly the same agency as state leaders as Hitler, with the exception that they were puppets of the USSR.

>>23259664
>socialism is when the government does stuff

>>23259739
the centralization of productive forces under state-controlled cartels is a little more than just "doing stuff" you intellectually dishonest little rat.

>>23259787
>socialism is when the government does a lot of stuff

>>23259846

Its funny when you realize that 90% of the mongrels of this threads are jobless loser who live on their parents dime just like marx talking about labour or any sort economic theory. My advice to you niggers is to get a job and you will hate communists and any sort of socialists with every fiber of your being..

>>23259595
>The only socialist regime in the West was Nazi Germany, which, at the very least, we could say was largely capitalist at some point.

Stfu retard. If you don't know something (which you clearly don't) , you listen and keep your mouth shut

>>23259933
whatever helps you cope, buddy:)

Bump

>>23259933
in reality the opposite happens

>>23260661

I asked chatgpt and this is what I got:

"Virgin Soil Upturned" by Mikhail Sholokhov: This novel, part of Sholokhov's epic "Tales of the Don" series, depicts the collectivization of agriculture and the struggles of peasants in the Don region of Russia during the early Soviet period. While the focus is on the collective farm movement, tractors and mechanization play a significant role in the narrative.

"The Road to Life" by Boris Laskin: This novel tells the story of a group of orphaned boys who are sent to a Soviet agricultural commune during the Russian Civil War. The boys learn to operate tractors and other agricultural machinery as they contribute to the collective farm's efforts to feed the population.

"Harvest of the Years" by Valentin Kataev: Set during the First Five-Year Plan in the Soviet Union, this novel follows the efforts of a collective farm to increase agricultural production and mechanize farming operations. While the focus is on the collective farm as a whole, the introduction of tractors and other modern equipment is a central theme.

"Quiet Flows the Don" by Mikhail Sholokhov: Another novel in Sholokhov's "Tales of the Don" series, this epic saga follows the lives of the Cossack Don people over several generations. While the focus is not specifically on tractors, the novel portrays the impact of industrialization and modernization on traditional rural life.

"Tractor Drivers" by Yuri German: This Soviet film, based on the novel by Valentin Kataev, tells the story of a group of tractor drivers on a collective farm who work tirelessly to meet their production quotas and overcome various challenges. The film celebrates the heroism and dedication of the workers in building socialism.

>>23259933
>poor living on their parents dime is bad
>but when the rich just give down wealth and their kids live off their parents its all good
Same how being jobless makes you a loser if you are poor but if you have a lot of capital and do fuck all so are basically a neet you are cool

>>23257565
>computational runtime complexity - a basic CS problem the man stubbornly keeps ignoring
You're a /g/ pseud. That depends entirely on what he's proposing. He has never ignored the idea of "compooter run le slow", even if that's a likely flaw of a computerised central planning system.

>>23259933
wtf i love blackrock now

>>23256991
Are Socialists willing to meet Distributists like me half way on anything?

>>23257362
Fisher was an unwitting delusional cult leader

>>23257565
Wolff was born in my city. I bring this up every time hes mentioned.

>>23258821
Making arbitrary rules about property with out common sense should be illegal. No one else lives in my apartment but me. Who cares if I smoke or own pets? You dont sleep in my house and eat my food so fuck off.

>>23258281
not sure what the point of this photo is

>>23261349
What are your thoughts on exchange value?

>>23257066
Most of that if not all of its garbage considering average men are struggling to date.

>>23258879
But why?

>>23261436
Products generally should be valued on their pragmatic basis. A lot of things like luxury items are simply valued for their social status and have no bearing on their practical use.

>>23258660
Post this on leftypol and see what happens lol

>>23261620
Yes, it sucks, was there any doubt about that?

>>23259933
DOOD I HECKIN' LOVE WASTING AWAY MY LIFE IN FRONT OF A COMPUTER SCREEN FOR PENNIES

>>23261620
I just occasionally visit that place to make trolly, edgy comments about females and radfems

>>23261651
you earn pennies because you pay taxes, nigger.

>>23256991
Opinions on Vanguardism and the efforts to foment the general development of class consciousness?

Bump

>>23262050
Failed. The typical marxist believes that other forms of oppression are, if not more important, more expedient or pressing, so they are really only fomenting sex consciousness, racial consciousness (except for whites), now "gender consciousness," and capitalists will invent new identities that are being oppressed faster than Le Vanguard could ever solve the problems. Marxism died because of identity politics, now any support for communism or socialism amounts to supporting a forever war between increasingly fragmented identities.

I've read multiple works of Kropotkin in three different languages and still feel like I didn't get it all. Love it.

>>23262050
essentially anti-marxists; class consciousness comes from within the class and any 'vanguard' will arise organically as the labour movement develops.

>>23262097
>Marxism died because of identity politics, now any support for communism or socialism amounts to supporting a forever war between increasingly fragmented identities.
There was a soviet (I think) communist author that predicted this, and someone from the NSDAP wrote about it as well. That's one of the reason's German socialism focused so heavily on total homogeneity. Fuck, I wish I remembered the author and text but it's been over a decade.

>>23262097
>Marxism died because of identity politics, now any support for communism or socialism amounts to supporting a forever war between increasingly fragmented identities.
There was a soviet (I think) communist author that predicted this, and someone from the NSDAP wrote about it as well. That's one of the reasons German socialism focused so heavily on total homogeneity. Fuck, I wish I remembered the author and text but it's been over a decade. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, link it.

1984
Animal Farm
(both written by socialist)

>>23261941
Stfu corporate bootlicker

>>23262142
I am embarrassed at my younger self for thinking these two were insightful criticism of soviet communism.
Of course this dude turned out to be a snitch

>>23262124
I disagree, because the labor movement has existed in some form or another for close to two hundred years now and what you describe had never happened. Without fault they have relied on the help of philanthropists or the higher classes. And also, I have to say that without a vanguard movement to actually direct and coordinate revolutionary impulses those impulses express themselves in useless outbursts: Riots, Strikes, Protests that are then repressed or dissipate on their own.

>>23258660
The first sexual reasignment surgeries happened in soviet russia under lenin.

>>23262617
Source? Lenin died in 1924, Lili Elbe (the danish girl) started her transition in 1930s.
Even if that is true, it doesn't mean he personally approved of it, even if he was ok with homos.
And it's not like he knew what trannyism would look like in 2020s anyway.

In short: YWNBAW

>>23260661
Not really, get a job nigger.

>>23262708
if you're a bottom feeder supermarket wagie, then probably he is right, if you're anything else than that, then you are probably right.

>>23262266
Unlike you he actually served in combat and saw with his own eyes in Spain what fucking hypocrite lying scum commieniggers are.

>>23257028
How does "man, fuck working" take 10 books worth of theorising to get across?

Socialist bump

>>23259933
I became a communist after starting to work a full-time job.

>>23257409
>trans
You are basically a golem
Masterfully created by Jewish hands, of course you'll agree kek

I do not need to campaign. I do not need to announce my support of communism. I am merely interested in how our current political system works, which Marx comprehensively describes, and what will come next, which we DO NOT know. Marx did not know this, and if you claim to know you are a utopian. Our problem is that we know Communism is inevitable, but people, yes Lenin, Marx, Mao et cetera, think they can force it into existence. We are now in a period of strife, the transition into communism is beginning, but we will not know what this communism is until it happens. Its like people in the 15th century trying to predict what Capitalism is. They did not know! So we can not predict what commons will be ! We can only describe what capitalism is!

>>23256991
This Carlos Marco guy was one cool dude.

why are you guys reading pro slavery books?

>>23262142
Orwell claimed to be socialist while reporting socialists to British intelligentsia. He was a fraud.

Belle delphine unironically refuted socialism, if gamer bath water has more value than other shit that takes many hours of labour to create then socialism is just false

>>23264955
imagine not knowing the difference between price and value

>>23263899
>Communist
>work full time
>Work
Kek, who are you trying to kid you have never actually worked a single day in your life. Anyone that is forced to pay taxes automatically despises the collective and everything it stands for. Because those taxes most likely go to jobless retarded niggers like urself.

>>23264955
>gamer bath water has more value than other shit that takes many hours of labour
that is literally true under capitalism LOL

>>23264986
same thing
>>23265017
good

A clean room = clean state of mind

>>23264955
things can have a price without it having value, f.ex a Caravaggio or Delphine's pisswasser ie. goods that are not reproducible by society.

>>23265248
what's the evidence/argument that belle delphine bath water has no value because is not "reproducible by society"?

>>23265200
dumb zoomer

>>23265274
not an argument

>>23265275
don't care fagboi

>>23265277
eat dick oldfart

>retarded gaymer zoomie doesn't understand basic economic principles
many such cases

>commie doesn't have an argument
>retorts to ad hominem
classic

>he mad
kek go back to your tiktoks Timmy, the adults are conversing.

>newfags can't even reply to each other properly

Imagine being a filthy braindead nigger and following a trash ideology that has never worked and never will. You niggers really need to get jobs.

>>23265255
That's not what they're saying. Thing's can have value without being reproducible by society. He's saying it has a price because it isnt, and it doesnt have value because its a womans bathwater made for mentally ill men.

any economically socialist while socially conservative man in ?
also, any recommendations wrt this? as a /brit/ i'm currently reading everything i can surrounding blue labour (i.e., maurice glasman) and the SDP. would like to know about more thinkers of this particular stance

>>23258870
karl polanyi might be good

>>23265374
>You niggers really need to get jobs
Amen. So interesting how its a common trope

Read Stalin's works

>>23257000
not technically /litl/ but the move of Lady in the dunes is amazing.

>>23265255
For Marx, only commodities that can be readily reproduced by labour under normal conditions of production have "value".

>the price of things which have in themselves no value, i.e., are not the product of labour, such as land, or which at least cannot be reproduced by labour, such as antiques and works of art by certain masters, etc., may be determined by many fortuitous combinations. In order to sell a thing, nothing more is required than its capacity to be monopolised and alienated.

>>23259515
Anyone can technically afford a house tho, rent is most of the time more than a mortgage. If you can afford rent you can afford to buy a similar place, excepting maybe students. Fuck you even have buy to let shit where you are literally paying the mortgage for the property but for someone else. I don't know how things like this can't be seen as completely immoral.

>>23256991
I found huge discrepancies between the translations of Marx's "The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte"
Internet archive version:
>Hegel remarks somewhere[*] that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce. Caussidière for Danton, Louis Blanc for Robespierre, the Montagne of 1848 to 1851[66] for the Montagne of 1793 to 1795, the nephew for the uncle. And the same caricature occurs in the circumstances of the second edition of the Eighteenth Brumaire.
versus picrel which is from the Marx’s Eighteenth Brumaire: (Post)modern Interpretations, translated by Terrell Carver
HELP ME ANONS

>>23267372
curious but I have no idea why it's like that

>>23264955
She actually seems like a really filthy person not gonna lie

>>23256991
Why do all socialists hate White people, and worship blacks?

>>23265374
Only retarded liberals say it wasn't "real communism"
Actual leftists know that ussr/china is REAL communism

>>23269127
We don't
Read a fucking book, and don't formulate your political views based on what you hear on social media including 4chin

>>23265399
Not exactly socially conservative but I hate the trans ideology, shame that most communists online act like "trans liberation" is necessary for the revolution.
The LGB's have mostly won, that is why most of the discourse is centered around trannies and queers.

>>23264955
That's not a refutation of socialism, that's a critique of capitalism.
Unless of course you've drank too much fluoride and think that this e-whore is living in a socialist state.
>>23269154
>retard doesn't know what AES is and confuses it for "real communism"
If you're going to LARP as a tankie smooth brain, then do it right instead of being a regular smooth brain.

145 posts and I still haven't heard any socialist arguments. Sad! Thoughbeit this is just how lit works, no actual discourse

>>23269205
>"AES"
>"tankie"
retard alert

>>23269300
Thanks for alerting everyone to your presence, Mr. Retard, but I already knew you were here.

Why is it a natural state of order for leftists to splinter into factions whenever they gain more than 1000 members?

>>23269341
The most successful Left leaders are narcissists with a a messiah complex so they naturally tend to come into conflict with each other, and they have no natural respect for authority, only the fear of force and being ostracized by their peers.

>>23267372
the internet archive version is the most literal translation whereas Carver adds fluff/historical context that's not in the original text

>>23269341
Left unity sucks, fuck statists

>>23258468
He really doesnt. He just says that we either have to come up with something (wishful thinking) or that we provide stuff that the capitalist government doesnt provide (wich is also probably not fast enough to garner enough support before the enviromental disaster we are fast and steadily aproaching)

>>23269341
In what relation do the Communists stand to the proletarians as a whole?


The Communists do not form a separate party opposed to other working-class
parties.


They have no interests separate and apart from those of the proletariat as a
whole.


They do not set up any sectarian principles of their own, by which to shape and
mould the proletarian movement.

Bros, my Materialism and Empirio-Criticism is gonna arrive any day now. I can't wait for an autistic demolition of Bogdanov!!!

>>23257006
Add Dialectical and Historical Materialism by Stalin to the extra section.

>>23271497
Based, that’s a good read.

>>23269154
When did they abolish their states?

>>23272820
why would they need to?

>>23260869
>/g/
computational complexity is mathematics not technology
it's to do with the fundamental resources consumed as particular processes unfold, which is of particular importance when one considers complex systems such as the economy

>>23272829
Because communism is a stateless, classless, moneyless society.

>>23269154
It's true that it wasn't real communism, but that's because 'real' communism is as real is the Christian heaven.
That is, you can't prove it actually exists.
Marxists will kill billions of people in the HOPES that it MIGHT come to fruition. That's the true horror. They've placed human lives in the guillotine, /praying/ that their prophet Karl Marx was right.

'Prophecy functions on a very long-term basis and has, as one of its properties, a characteristic which is the very source of strength of all religions: the impossibility of proof'.

>>23273175
do you need to live in that kind of society to be a communist?

>>23273187
Proletarians associate with each other out of economic necessity and their movement towards greater foms of combinations is what Marx calls 'communism'. Communist society then is nothing but this association at a certain stage of development.

>>23273211
>and their movement towards greater foms of combinations is what Marx calls 'communism'
Not quite, that's what most people, even socialists themselves, get wrong about Marx.


'When private property is concentrated in the hands of one single owner, it is only seperated from collective ownership by the existence of one single man. The inevitable result of private capitalism is a kind of State capitalism which will then only have to be put to the service of the community to give birth to a society where capital and labour, henceforth in-disginguishable, will produce, in one identical advance towards progress, both justice and abundance.
It is in considertation of this happy outcome that Marx has always extolled the revolutionary role played, un-conciously it is true, by the bourgeiosie. He spoke of the 'historic rights' of capitalism, which he called a source both of progress and misery.
The historic mission and the justification of capitalism are, in his eyes, the prepare the ideal conditions for a superior mode of prouction.
This mode of production is not, in itself, revolutionary; it will only be the crowning point of the revolution. Only the fundemental principles of bourgeios production are revolutionary'.

'When Marx affirms that humanity only sets itself problems that it can solve, he is simultaneously demonstrating that the germ of the solution of the revolutionary problem is to be found, in principle, in the capitalist system itself.
THEREFORE he recommends tolerating the bourgeios State, and even helping to build it, rather than returning to a less industrialised form of production'.

>>23273211
cont.

'It is not in the nature of economics, according to Marx, to make leaps in the dark and it MUST NOT be encouraged to gallop ahead.
It is completely false to say that the socialist reformers remained faithful to Marx on this point.
On the contrary, fatalism excludes all reforms, in that there would be a risk of mitigating the catastrophic aspect of the outcome. The logic of such an attitude leads to the approval of everything that tends to increase working-class poverty.
The worker must be given nothing so that one day can have everything'.

>>23256991
niggers

>>23256991
Can't go wrong with Based Bertrand.

>>23257287
Value can only come from labor

>>23258468
More like his real life example tells you what to do

>>23258821
They want to artificially drive up demand and suppress supply so they can charge more and more. This is wickedness and deserves punishment. Simple as.

how was he able to write actually interesting socialist literature? Other writers could only write word-salads that mean nothing to people that don't jerk off to the smell of their own farts.

>>23259142
Capitalist Realism tackles what you are alluding to. The real problem is that capitalism itself centralizes power and historically the only solution has been full on violent revolution and the employment of the guillotine. We will have to wait and see if our society reaches such a boiling point.

>>23258886
Yes, this was painfully obvious in the 2008 housing crash. The government bailed out banks that handed out horrendously bad mortgages and fraudulently marketed mortgage backed securities based on those weak mortgages while letting the homeowners go bankrupt. Same goes for the auto industry and the concept of "too big to fail". In those moments, the government should have nationalized the failing industry and imprisoned the incompetent fools who damaged national security by sabotaging the economy. But of course, at a certain level of wealth you are immune to legal or governmental consequences.

>>23259933
This nigga thinks insulting people for living with their parents will do anything to help while ignoring the fact that corporations have strangled the labor market and artificially driven up housing costs such that young people today literally can't afford to buy a home and have a family. Blame the individual for not having a job, not society for offering shittier and shittier jobs that offer a worse and worse standard of living.

>>23269127
I advocate for socialism in order to allow young people to establish strong family units like past generations instead of both parents being forced to work full time to maintain the basic of life because the labor market is globalized to hell and back so that the sale of labor is in competition with blacks and browns. White societies should socialize national resources and industry and close all immigration. This would be the closest you could come to utopia, but of course Blackrock prefers centralized ownership and waves of low skill low IQ immigrants to suppress wages and destroy communities so their interests are both served and protected.

>>23256998
Wtf leftypol no Dialectic of Enlightenment? Why do you hate the Frankfurt School so much?

>>23257287
Why MArx? Adam Smith came up with that idea lol

>>23257419
Alec Nove's Economics of Feasible Socialism and his economic history of the USSR should be added to this list. No idea why Mao is there. Its trash.

>>23257066
Ocelan does not belong on this list.