/lit/ - Literature

>>23221675
Forbidden knowledge. Delete this.

>>23221675
Edomites (so called whites) are dirty stupid red apes that are considered "the most cursed and feeble of all children of God" . By enslaving Israelites (so-called negroes) they brought upon themeselves a tremendous amount of wrath from almighty. may the greatest and most merciful have them under his protections as sin is their common bread. They hate real israelites (so called negroes) with a passion as they actually understand deeply that they are inferior in every possible aspect. Souls of edomites (so-called whites) are rotten to the core and they have more in common with the beasts of meadows and woods than Israelites (so called negroes) whom they like to taunt so much.

>>23221675
you're noticing too hard, OP.
don't think about how edom has red hair and the correspondence that has to nordic/germanic myth.
edom was literally chilling in the woods hunting and living free, ignoring his birthright and Yakuuv was in the tent reading books and scheming.
the story of Yakuuv in jewish theology used to be about how sometimes its necessary and even admirable to be a scheming, lying trickster -- in the earliest renditions of the talmud, these characters were supposed to be looked up to and emulated.
but now over thousands of years they have inverted that, and pretend otherwise. they've convinced goyim its actually about how "even if you are bad god will still use you," that yakuuv was a sinner who despite doing the wrong thing was still important in god's plan.
in essence this is just the same yakuuvian trickstering that yakuuv pulled on edom.
>they will offer you what you think you need (the lentils) and you will trade your birthright for it
not only will they do this but they will enshrine this myth into your religion and teach you that it actually means something else.
they think you're retarded.

>>23221675
>How can it be that our hero, our patriarch, acts in such an immoral fashion? In response to this and other similar questions, two interpretative responses emerge. In rabbinic literature, many passages tend to whitewash the flaws of biblical characters. Rabbi Tzvi Hirsch Chajes points out that this is part of a general tendency to exaggerate the good traits of the pious and the negative traits of the wicked. When the contrast in the Biblical picture is heightened, the lessons derived are far more black and white; we are left with a simpler picture of good guys and bad guys. In these sorts of interpretations, Jacob’s ethical failings are rationalized and defended. How can it be that our hero, our patriarch, acts in such an immoral fashion? In response to this and other similar questions, two interpretative responses emerge. In rabbinic literature, many passages tend to whitewash the flaws of biblical characters. Rabbi Tzvi Hirsch Chajes points out that this is part of a general tendency to exaggerate the good traits of the pious and the negative traits of the wicked. When the contrast in the Biblical picture is heightened, the lessons derived are far more black and white; we are left with a simpler picture of good guys and bad guys. In these sorts of interpretations, Jacob’s ethical failings are rationalized and defended.
(1/2)

>>23222648
>Contemporary Jewish readers can read Jacob’s story carefully and critically, and give their own interpretation of the text. But when Joseph Official responds to the Capuchin friar, he doesn’t have that luxury. In this case, Joseph Official, (and the Rashbam), say that Jacob actually paid full price to Esau; the lentils are merely part of a meal served to celebrate the transaction. This is not a unique explanation; in other passages, the Rashbam often offers unusual apologetic explanations as well. He is well aware of Christian polemics using the Tanakh, and at one point explains that his interpretation “effectively silences the heretics (i.e., Christians)…” Anti-Jewish polemics is almost certainly why the Rashbam makes the remarkable claim that the brothers did not sell Joseph, but rather the Midianites stole him out of the pit while the brothers, unaware, were eating lunch. Clearly, Jews were being denigrated as people who would sell their own brother into slavery, and the Rashbam was looking for a way to respond. I read these apologetic interpretations with a mixture of amazement and sadness. They are exceptionally brilliant re-readings of the text, worthy of the rabbis who composed them. At the same time, it is heartbreaking to realize that the Rashbam, who is ordinarily meticulous in offering the simple reading of the text, had to deviate from his own standards in Biblical interpretation. He felt it was more important to confront the Christian polemicists who mocked the Jews.
>Today’s proliferation of antisemitism is profoundly troubling; but what worries me even more is what antisemitism does to Jews. Spiteful attacks on Jews, Judaism, and the Jewish homeland change the way we think; and like the Rashbam, nasty rhetoric rings in our ears. In his time, the Rashbam turned to protect Jacob, and did too good a job; but today’s young Jews will, more often than not, run from Jacob and hide their Jewish identity ... This is the greatest tragedy of antisemitism: what it does to the Jewish soul. As young people decide to become crypto-Jews, hiding in plain sight, we must grapple with this thought: now it is our birthright that is being stolen. We cannot let that happen.
(2/2) https://jewishjournal.com/judaism/353483/jacob-and-antisemitism/

>>23221714
>>23222611
Edom is semitic.

>>23221675
>The solution to this problem is Esau hunting an animal, capturing it, and giving it to his brother to watch over and multiply
>Esau and Jacob animal herding Co.
>What is a zoo?
>Generate income from zookeeping
>Allow animals to live if they're hunted to extinction
>Esau gets to hunt, Jacob gets to herd, animals get to live more comfortably than in the wild, even though they live with restrictions
>Win-win-win
Think in solutions, Anon!

>>23222682
none of these people actually fucking existed, anon, its all myth.
jews created the character of edom/esau to explain how the gentiles were ACKtually descended from the pre-israel jewish people.
>Esau’s offspring split into various groups, each one led by a chieftain. One of these groups was named Magdiel, which is identified as Rome. Indeed, there is a longstanding tradition that the Romans were descendants of Esau, and as such, Jewish literature refers to the Roman Empire as the Kingdom of Edom.

>>23221675
Also, this whole ordeal helped lay the basis of the forgiveness principle, which comes in handy later in the book and the book clubs based on the book.

>>23221714
What absolute batshit insane nonsense this is, lmao. /Pol/tards, please, get the fuck off this board.

>>23222709
ironically, Esau forgives Jacob, granting even more credence to the idea of the noble gentile, who, in his strength, does not hold grudges (contrary to the semitic peoples, who never forget)

>>23222682
>Edom is semitic.

>>23222711
that guy isn't a /pol/tard, he's essentially agreeing with the jewish interpretation of the Jacob/Esau issue, which no /pol/tard would do.

>>23221675
Angloids will never understand.
https://vocaroo.com/164tL3Ha0RH2

>>23222719
based fellow understander

>>23222720
He's using later Jewish texts as a basis to confuse right minded /pol/ rejecting people, which is no issue for him because all lies are valid for him so long as they contribute to pervert the truth. Anyone who has even read the Bible can see through the dust cloud he is kicking up.

>>23222729
Nice picture, but from the hammer and the wagon that seems to me to be Odin. I can draw parallels between mythologies, sure, but this one's a bit of a leap for me. That isn't to say that there are no archetypical similarities between Odin and Edom, but I'll think about that when I'm working.

>>23222720
>he's essentially agreeing with the jewish interpretation of the Jacob/Esau issue
There are apparently many conflicting interpretations. I remember reading about some early New York Zionists identifying with Esau for some reason and claiming they were Edomites.
It's at least partly about the scholarly tradition and strategies that rely on intelligence like betrayal gaining an edge over the previously dominant hunter/warrior. Israel the tree that wrestles with God corrupts over time until Christ shows up and points out the tree isn't giving fruit anymore. Paul gets the message and takes it back to the hunters who aren't subject to the same corruption.

The problem is the new tree planted by Christ corrupts over time and stops fruiting just like Israel did. The pursuit of knowledge and therefore power corrupts the hunter over time too, without opposition, when you have power there's no pressure keeping you from corrupting.

>>23222749
>hammer
>odin
its thor, dude. thor has a hammer, odin has a spear. lol you might wanna go revisit norse/germanic mythology because thats a pretty egregious misunderstanding.
anyways, Edom's being large, powerful, and red-haired, is supposed to be somehow indicative of his wickedness in semitic myth.
however, on the other hand, in norse/germanic (gentile) myth, and even in roman/greek myth, many gods are large, powerful, and red-haired, and this is indicative of their virtue and godliness...
isn't that fascinating?

>>23222803
interesting and well-put, anon, this has given me much to think on

>>23222720
No, lmao. You're just as crazy as he is.

>>23222719
>56:40
>Rabbis tell us that there will be a nation in the world right before the Messiah comes, that we will be able to tell from their character and behavior who he is. And the answer is very clear: Germany.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln1S4uWghz0

The Messiah has already come two millenia ago, and His name is Jesus Christ.

>>23222811
care to elaborate on this point?
nothing that's been stated here is crazy, we're just rehashing and exploring a very old dilemma that has been discussed thoroughly by various theologians. it's pretty bland, run-of-the-mill shit. not like we're talking about jewish space lazers or something.
i honestly think you're just kind of retarded and not really clued in on any of this stuff so you default to seeing it all as schizo-babble. nothing stated here is controversial in the least.

>>23222829
>you're just kind of retarded and not really clued in on any of this stuff

To the question wether Esau stands for some non-Semitic people, he is literally a Semite, and he marries two Canaanite women, so even if Esau himself was white his direct descendants were probably quite 'Kushite'.
As for the trickery of Jacob, we'll I see it this way, why was Esau so stupid to sell his right of the first born for a plate of beans? Of course Jacob can be blamed for being such an asshole to Esau, but who has never been an asshole to his siblings? And then Esau still wants to get away with getting his first-born right from his father. I just see a fight between siblings growing into adulthood. If it had serious repercussions in real life, it's because that's life. It's not like Esau and Jacob hated each other to death.

>>23222840
Well personally I defer to the interpretation of literally who hasidic preachers filtered through redditors r/conspiracy commentaries before posting my deep fried nazi takes, but if you want to waste your time actually reading the text as its written and coming to common sense conclusions, maybe you just aren't satanic enough for this board.

>>23222810
It's obviously simplistic saying it's just about scholarship and intelligence over brute force but that's one thread we can actually trace that completely correlates with the spread of these ideas. Israel may be the first nation focused completely on scholarship, considering themselves a nation of "teachers" around the time phonetic writing emerged. Mass literacy spread through Christianity.

>>23222840
>It's not like Esau and Jacob hated each other to death
are you fucking retarded? Esau absolutely hated Jacob "to death" for this. HE LITERALLY TRIED TO KILL HIM OVER IT. in the end Esau marches his army on Jacob determined to kill him but in the final moment decides to forgive Jacob.
>why was Esau so stupid to sell his right of the first born for a plate of beans?
this is the jewish reading of the story. this is the reading that suggests, blatantly, that those who are foolish deserve to have things stolen from them -- something completely ignoble and evil.
>>23222831
wow, im totally surprised that you have no actual argument. who could've foreseen this?

>>23222859
'Oolibama'
>>23222867
> dude pulls up with an army against his brother because he got beef with him
That's just normal Bronze Age stuff, I don't see a problem her.

>>23222859

>>23222867
Again, none of this is in the text. Blatantly making things up is not an argument.

>>23222875
my point was that your statement that
>It's not like Esau and Jacob hated each other to death.
is observably incorrect if you would actually just read the fucking text. quit this nonsense, anon.

>>23222840
>why was Esau so stupid to sell his right of the first born for a plate of beans?
Esau knows it's not how it works, his blessings come when he acts justly, he already inherited the powerful qualities of his father and can't give them away. Jacob thinks legalistically as if a declaration will change his nature. Esau never shows any care for these declarations, he doesn't consider himself robbed.

>>23222880
Ok? I remember the part where Esau was pulling up with an army to Jacob but it was nowhere implied that he actually intended to attack him with the army. He was just going, with an army.

>>23222879
>none of this is in the text
holy shit, anon. stop pretending you've read any of this, you're exposing your retardation. I will quote it for you:
>Jacob’s brother Esau was living in the area called Seir in the hill country of Edom. Jacob sent messengers to Esau. He told them, “Tell this to my master Esau: ‘Your servant Jacob says, I have lived with Laban all these years. I have many cattle, donkeys, flocks, and servants. Sir, I am sending you this message to ask you to accept us.’” The messengers came back to Jacob and said, “We went to your brother Esau. He is coming to meet you. He has 400 men with him.” Jacob was very frightened and worried. He divided the people who were with him and all the flocks, herds, and camels into two groups. Jacob thought, “If Esau comes and destroys one group, the other group can run away and be saved.” Then Jacob said, “God of my father Abraham! God of my father Isaac! Lord, you told me to come back to my country and to my family. You said that you would do good to me. You have been very kind to me. You did many good things for me. The first time I traveled across the Jordan River, I owned nothing—only my walking stick. But now I own enough things to have two full groups. I ask you to please save me from my brother Esau. I am afraid that he will come and kill us all, even the mothers with the children.
>Jacob looked and saw Esau coming with 400 men. Jacob divided his family into four groups. Leah and her children were in one group, Rachel and Joseph were in one group, and the two maids and their children were in two groups. Jacob put the maids with their children first. Then he put Leah and her children behind them, and he put Rachel and Joseph in the last place. Jacob himself went out before them. While he was walking toward his brother Esau, he bowed down to the ground seven times. When Esau saw Jacob, he ran to meet him. He put his arms around Jacob, hugged his neck, and kissed him. Then they both cried.
This is in Genesis ch. 32-33. Stop being such a pseud faggot.
The page this is from (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2033&version=CEB)) literally marks chapter 33 as "Esau forgives Jacob."
Begone, illiterate faggot!

>>23222887
(https://ministry-to-children.com/esau-forgives-jacob/))
>"Esau Forgives Jacob"
(https://seedsoffaith.cph.org/2018/05/24/old-testament-1-lesson-13-esau-forgives-jacob/))
>"Esau Forgives Jacob"
(https://biblehub.com/topical/naves/f/forgiveness--esau_forgives_jacob.htm))
>"Forgiveness: Esau Forgives Jacob"

>>23222895
>are you fucking retarded? Esau absolutely hated Jacob "to death" for this. HE LITERALLY TRIED TO KILL HIM OVER IT. in the end Esau marches his army on Jacob determined to kill him but in the final moment decides to forgive Jacob.
None of this is in the text. It's not even the text that you posted.

>>23222895
Good job at nuking your own argument all by yourself. See >>23222887

>>23222887
In that text Jacob thought Esau would kill them but instead Esau refused all gifts and forgave Jacob immediately.

>>23222902
Esau literally just said 'he is coming to meet you (with 400 men)'. Where is the threat that he is going to attack him? What is there to be forgiven about a call for help from Jacob?

>>23222900
>>23222901
>>23222906
>durr hurrr it doesn't literally say "Esau forgave Jacob" in the text therefore you're wrong
it's subtextual you fucking retard, just google "esau forgives jacob" or "esau, jacob, and forgiveness" and read the countless papers/articles about it.
also, see >>23222899, which you seem to have ignored

>>23222906
I replied to the wrong post and I'm saying Esau never shows any animosity towards Jacob in the text. Jacob just assumed Esau wanted to kill him and some Jewish traditions apparently still say that's true despite the text.

>>23222914
>it's subtextual you fucking retard, just google "esau forgives jacob" or "esau, jacob, and forgiveness" and read the countless papers/articles about it.
Deception and trickery. Powerful agents to the uninitiated; but we are initiated aren't we, Batman?

>>23222917
https://biblehub.com/genesis/27-41.htm
>So Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing with which his father blessed him, and Esau said in his heart, “The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then I will kill my brother Jacob.”
why are you making me teach you the story that you supposedly already have read? this is reaching untenable levels of retardation. holy shit. if you had actually read this shit then you'd know what was preceding this entire interaction and why it's significant.
for the love of god please just take the fucking 15 minutes to actually read the shit instead of making me spoonfeed it to you. the argument you're suggesting is so fucking retarded, its clear you haven't read any of this, stop pretending.

>>23221675
Yeah I always found this funny. It's kind of cool to have a rogue founding father instead of a warrior or king founding father, but Jacob is a completely immoral shameless psychopath.

>>23222917
>When Rebekah was told what her older son Esau had said, she sent for her younger son Jacob and said to him, 'Your brother Esau is planning to avenge himself by killing you.'
gen 27:42

>>23222928
We're told this but in reality nothing happens, this supposedly hardened and murderous heart results in nothing but forgiveness.

>>23222934
>Jacob is a completely immoral shameless psychopath
The text does not support this interpretation.

>>23222939
What interpretation does it support?

>>23222840
>Exploit your hungry brother who is starving
>t. Vile Shlomo

>>23222935
Why are you mixing the part where Jacob pretends to be Esau with the part where Esau and Jacob meet years later on incident? Anyways I find this discussion petty and nonsensical, I know I have won so why do you keep discussing something where I have already won?

>>23222939
holy shit anon. i BTFO'd your shit-retarded argument by posting literal scripture and now instead of acknowledging it, you just choose another anon with which to make the exact same "hurr durr the text doesn't say that" argument? how do you think this will end for you? are you actually fucking autistic?

>>23222946
>Why are you mixing the part where Jacob pretends to be Esau with the part where Esau and Jacob meet years later on incident
HOLY SHIT ANON. the part where Jacob tricks Esau is the event that causes Esau to hate him and swear that he will kill him. They part ways and do not see eachother for several years.
that's why jacob is so worried to meet Esau again in the passages i quoted, because their last interaction was the one where Esau swore to kill him. are you BRAINDEAD?

>>23222955
Ok, I just assumed grass had grown over the thing after years passing.

>>23222941
this has got to be a troll at this point. there's no way you could be this illiterate. we are arguing over the span of 6 to 7 chapters, it takes less than 5 minutes to read it and see for himself. they're either genuinely <70IQ or just taking the piss out of us, this is a lost cause.

>>23222955
Not the same guy but remember that this is recorded by the scribes of Israel. They only learned this from Rebekah, the same one who taught Jacob how to be manipulative. The next time they actually speak directly Esau is fine about it.

>>23222960
>u suck
You won I guess.

>>23222948
You posted an excerpt of scripture that does not support the argument you are making, and act as if it did. It's very strange to me. I assumed you were samefagging again.

>>23222941
Just read the text and see for yourself.

I'm going out to eat. If you want to use this time to read the text (rather than accuse me of abandoning the thread) that's fine by me.

>>23222988
Another great argument. What about this: it's me who is right, just read the text and see for yourself.

>>23223001
Your argument is not supported by the text and that's apparent to anyone who will read the text, which is exactly what happened after you finally posted the text itt and people read it and observed that you are making false statements. You posted excerpts of scripture that do not support anything you're saying. The links you referred to don't support anything you say either. It's very strange to behold.

>>23223471
I'm not that anon, retard.

>>23223484
I was speaking to you, not that anon.

>>23223471
>the links you posted that all say “Esau Forgives Jacob” don’t support your argument that Esau forgives Jacob
I actually wish I could curbstomping you, you are irredeemably retarded and should not reproduce

>>23223517
*curbstomp
Am phonefagging and got visited by autocorrect demons

>>23222867
Specifically this is not supported by the text

>HE LITERALLY TRIED TO KILL HIM OVER IT. in the end Esau marches his army on Jacob determined to kill him but in the final moment decides to forgive Jacob
None of this is supported by the text.

>>23223509
Retard.

>>23223517
This was never in question. I don't know why you are arguing with me over something so trivial and why you are actually threatening to kill me over it. Meds?

>>23223530
Clarify, then, what specifically are you saying is not supported by the text?

>>23223535
OK.
>>23221714
>>23222611
>>23222708
>>23222719
>>23222867
>>23222934
None of this is supported by the text.

>>23222803
>>23222942
>>23222963
These are also not supported by the text.

>>23222867
chill

>>23223552
only three of those are me, anon, so I'll only be addressing the posts I made.
As for >>23222611, of course this isn't supported by the text, I'm referencing Jewish apologetic interpretations of the text and the discourse surrounding them. That is to say, I'm not making extrapolations from the text itself, I'm merely presenting conjecture.
As for >>23222708 I made some claims:
>None of these people actually existed
well, of course that's not supported by the text. I didn't say it was.
>Jews created the character of edom/esau to explain how the gentiles were actually descended from the pre-israel jewish people
Well, yes, of course that's not supported by the text. Like before, this is conjecture on my part. I then quote a claim that Edom became the kingdom of Rome, a claim made on the Chabad website in number 12 of this list: (https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/4937157/jewish/14-Facts-About-Esau-Everyone-Should-Know.htm).).
As for >>23222867, my claims were
>Esau hated Jacob "to death," as in, he swore to kill Jacob for the stealing of his birthright. He later ("in the end") marches on Jacob determined to kill him but decides to forgive him.
If we're really splitting hairs, sure. The text does not explicitly say "Esau marched against Jacob but then decide to forgive him." It is possible, like you said, that Esau merely had his army with him, leading Jacob to THINK he was being marched on. So I concede to you on that. However, for the simple claim that
>Esau forgave Jacob
that is agreed by most theologians and doctrines to have been the intended subtext of their interaction, something that you will find to be true from a quick google search.

(1/1)

>>23223640
For the claim that
>Esau being stupid enough to sell his birthright is the Jewish reading of the story, which suggests that those who are foolish deserve to have things stolen from them
I concede to you as well that its not explicitly supported by the text -- but, again, of course it isn't. I'm referring to Jewish interpretations of the Old Testament which support this view; the idea that Esau "deserved" to lose his birthright because he was foolhardy and did not think of the future. My source for this, again, is the Jewish interpretation of the story found on the chabad website in number 2 of the list from earlier, wherein Esau's "mistake" is referred to as
>... his foolhardy decision to sell his birthright to Jacob...
and the idea that Jacob was justified to trick Esau, because Esau was wicked and foolhardy, is again not explicitly said in the text, but is an idea shared by many in the Jewish faith. You can see this here on the Chabad website: (https://rabbisacks.org/covenant-conversation/toldot/jacob-right-take-esaus-blessing/)) in which they say, plainly
>...Jacob was right to do it ... [Rebekah] had watched the twins grow up. She knew that Esau was a hunter, a man of violence ... impetuous, mercurial, a man of impulse, not calm reflection. She had seen him sell his birthright for a bowl of soup. She had watched while he “ate, drank, rose and left. So Esau despised his birthright.” No one who despises his birthright can be the trusted guardian of a covenant intended for eternity. Third, just before the episode of the blessing we read: “When Esau was forty years old, he married Judith daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and also Basemath daughter of Elon the Hittite. They were a source of grief to Isaac and Rebecca.” This too was evidence of Esau’s failure to understand what the covenant requires. By marrying Hittite women he proved himself indifferent both to the feelings of his parents and to the self-restraint in the choice of marriage partner that was essential to being Abraham’s heir. The blessing had to go to Jacob. If you had two sons, one indifferent to art, the other an art-lover and aesthete, to whom would you leave the Rembrandt that has been part of the family heritage for generations?

(2/2)

>>23223642
Anyways, I understand now how the conversation got so out of hand. We were likely getting eachother mixed up with other anons. Hopefully, this explains things clearly enough.

>>23223640
>Edom is semitic.
Is this supported by the text, or not?

>>23223657
I did not make the claim that Edom is semitic. I'm only responding to the claims I made. Please refer to >>23223642 where I posted a screencap that shows which claims I made.
I'm only responsible for these claims: >>23222611, >>23222708, and >>23222867

>>23223672
You responded to the claim.
>>23222708
>Edom is semitic.

Is this supported by the text or not?

Do you take issue with the claim or not?

>>23223704
Curious how you are now so concerned with something I didn't say and didn't acknowledge the laborious effortpost I made which proved all of my claims were correct and justified.
I take the fact that you're now autismo-focusing on this one issue as tacit admission that since I proved all of my claims correct, you now have no recourse but to try and move the goalposts to the question of Edom's semitism (a claim that I was frankly never really interested in denying or affirming) with the hopes that you can endlessly draw out this conversation and get your "win."
Anyways, I'll humor you.
Obviously, Edom was semitic. It wouldn't make sense if he weren't. Abraham, Isaac, Edom, were all semitic, because they are the precursors of the Jewish people, who are semitic. It goes without saying.
Whether or not this has some implication on the basic claim that Edom's descendants became the kingdom of Rome (gentiles), I will not entertain further discussion on, because it is generally accepted by Jewish people. So, you can go argue with them, not me. Here's a webpage explaining it: (https://www.thetorah.com/article/esau-the-ancestor-of-rome).).
Seriously, though, I'm not going to argue that with you, I'm not interested. Perhaps you can get that anon to come back into the thread and explain why they said that. I'm merely providing some material that corroborates it.

>>23223552
>These are also not supported by the text.
The Bible tells you it's written by the scribes of Israel. They wrote down the story as Jacob told it not as Esau told it. Can you actually dispute specifics instead of making these declarations? Be interesting, don't be a fucking empty retard.

>>23223927
Don't waste your time. That anon's posts in this thread are alone enough evidence for an autism diagnosis.

>>23223730
Common mistake. Verbiage is not effortful in and of itself. It has taken a profound amount of effort not to get distracted by nonsense that's not in the text being posted itt. That's very strange of You >>23222708 to make posts introducing topics you have no interest in discussing. I suppose I appreciate the good faith effort to make a post not threatening to kill me (by curb stomping me).

>>23223927
I only brought these up because they are disinformation being posted which are not supported by the text to satisfy the request made >>23223535. I have no interest in disputing.

>They only learned this from Rebekah, the same one who taught Jacob how to be manipulative. The next time they actually speak directly Esau is fine about it.
This is the part of the post not supported by the text but I don't care to quibble over what's wrong with it.

There are some anons on this board with sloppy explanations of the text that confuse things when the text is very clear, and some with HOSTILE explanations of the text who are here to confuse and attack. I don't care about being interesting or not. I care about getting you to read the text and explain it without error!

>>23221675
Isnt the whole point about how Esau squandered his birth right and this his right to be the forefather of the messiah just to satisfy physical desires? And also it was his mother who did the deceiving

>>23224038
>Esau squandered his birth right [...] just to satisfy physical desires
Right.
>and this his right to be the forefather of the messiah
Who recieved Israel's birthright? Do you remember?
>And also it was his mother who did the deceiving
No. This is not supported by the text. Jacob was a grown man who could make his own decisions. Rebekah did not deceive anyone.

>>23224034
>This is the part of the post not supported by the text
What do you even mean? What information are the scribes recording if not the information passed down to them by their founder? According to the text Rebekah told Jacob to leave because Esau wanted to kill him, according to the text Jacob never saw Esau angry.

>>23224253
>What do you even mean?
That this part of the post is not supported by the text:
>They only learned this from Rebekah, the same one who taught Jacob how to be manipulative. The next time they actually speak directly Esau is fine about it.

>>They only learned this from Rebekah,
Speculation. If we take the text at face value without assuming Rebekah is lying, the words of Esau were "told to Rebekah." (27:42)

>>the same one who taught Jacob how to be manipulative
Wrong on account of the pottage, and/or Speculation; but 'OK, fine,' if you've misspoken and are just referring to the deceit of the meat.

>>The next time they actually speak directly Esau is fine
Yes.
>>The next time they actually speak directly Esau is fine about it.
This is not in the text.

>>23221675
There are many stories like this in the Bible. See the Apocrypha's Judith for another one, or Esther. One can even see the story of David & Goliath in the same way

>>23221675
God offers to kill all of Moses's followers twice and Moses says not to twice because it could make God look bad. The point here is that we are utterly reliant on covenantal lines, now fully in Catholicism, and the people who pick them up, Jacob and Esau, such as priests today. The idea is that if we trick the priests we trick God and if the priests trick us they do not trick God - this scene is a warning to all priests and spirituals but also that God will still honor his representatives by, in a sense, working through and "within" their confines.

>>23224911
>we trick God
"trick" God that is*, as in we need to rely on God's vessels however terrible for the sake of His covenant

>>23222895
>Jacob was very frightened and worried
Because he knew he did somethin wrong lol

>>23224363
Are you Jewish? Be honest.

>>23222806
I should've known it was Thor. I even live in a country where one day of the week is named after him. I read about Norse mythologies in two books, one was by Philip Glass. I don't know what came over me: I think it's the late-night posting or the cigarettes, or both. But yeah, I understand the comparison between Esau and Thor here, and this isn't >>>/ic/, but I'm just used to seeing pictures of Thor with a hammer, if not riding on a wagon like that. The literary, religious, and the visual artistic comparisons are different comparisons. I don't agree with the throwing on one heap of the concepts of nationality, religion, race, and skin colour, because they're distinct concepts and in my autistic worldview should be treated as such. To keep it >>>/lit/ and not >>>/pol/, I don't think the OP was very explanatory or allowed for a narrow discussion of a specific subject. My professor stated that the basic unit of thought is three sentences long, and the OP seems to me to steer towards something anti-Jewish, likely based on a biased view of the text and a cherrypicking of a story in a book about a people which has a lot of stories. Reacting, the comparison between Esau and Thor, nor the framing of Jacob, does not take into account the large amount of possibilities in interhuman conflicts and their just as large amount of possible resolvings.