/lit/ - Literature

>>23217987
that looks like my sweet gf
t. arab immigrant in europe

>>23217987
I’m melting

>>23217987
So why is she being filmed?

>>23217987
One of them suggests, that we shouldn't help you with your school essay, other one strictly criticizes those, who would be doing such an atrocity.

>>23217987
>Socrates
Interested in establishing the truth through debate, reason, and multiple perspectives. We call all philosophers preceding him pre-Socratics for a reason.
>Plato
Create a bunch of bullshit notions that have little to do with the above. Then write about these ideas from the point of view of your mentor to give yourself validity.

The Cynics and the Stoics have more in common with Socrates than Plato.

>>23218007
Plato sounds based. The rest sound like proto bugmen.

>>23218015
You’re probably a Hegel fanboy.

>>23217987
Plato was a fag, i had two wives.

>>23218002
>implying school teaches The Classics

>>23217987
Socrates was a war hero with a wife and children, whilst Plato (Greek for "big shoulders") was a gay bodybuilder.

>>23218007
>Interested in establishing the truth through debate, reason, and multiple perspectives. We call all philosophers preceding him pre-Socratics for a reason.
So we’re entering now the post-Socratic age?

They were different people. I'm not sure what you mean.

>>23218366
That has been the case since the advent of Christianity.

>>23217987
Plato is Socrates' apostle, nothing more.

>>23218303
Wrestler, you fucking retard. Socrates was ugly and therefore a piece of shit.

>>23217992
You must be in Germany, UK, France, or NL

>>23218001
Because her boyfriend is a cuck who gets off to the idea of millions of strangers lusting after at his girlfriend. Why else would you post your girlfriend's videos onto social media?

>>23218001
Because her boyfriend is a cuck who gets off to the idea of millions of strangers lusting at his girlfriend. Why else would you post your girlfriend's videos onto social media?

>>23218466
>Socrates was ugly and therefore a piece of shit
Why is it then that some people are physically attractive but reprehensible people? wouldn't you agree that immoral actions come from immoral choices?

>>23218466
>Socrates was ugly and therefore a piece of shit
This is is not deductively valid, as there are people are not conventionally attractive but morally good people, while there are attractive people who are morally bad, a few serial killers come to mind. I think you are placing good and bad in something completely irrelevant to the character of a person.

>>23217987
we'll never know what Socrates himself believed. The line between his own beliefs and Plato's are unknown. His character, the Socratic Spirit, manifest through the Socratic Method, is what lives on. Also one was ugly and one was so gay he wrote a whole fanfic where the ugly bastard Socrates tops a pretty twink.

>>23217987
Plato was influenced by Pythagoras and Egypt.

>>23217987
Socrates ends his true dialogues in aporia. He answers no questions he raises. See his view on metaphysics in Apologia.

Plato is all about the soul and the forms and other mystic mumbo jumbo.

>>23217987
>What is the fundamental difference between Socrates and Plato?
They're both fictional characters but Plato was based on a true story.

Plato liked lifting. Socrates gave his life to lift.

Plato inspired a bunch of fascist cults which tried to overthrow democracy. Socrates was a member of a fascist cult which tried to overthrow democracy by cutting penises off statues.

>>23218486
France, probably. Bri’ish girls aren’t this pretty.

>>23218505
so he's the cuck even though he's the one fucking her? you're retarded

>>23220808
>incapable of abstract thought
Low iq.

>>23217987
Do your own homework

>>23218505
I can see you’ve never had a girl worth showing off and bragging about

>>23218007
You call them pre-Socratics because of Plato...

>>23220812
You couldn't back up your argument so you just say "low iq" lol this is the real sign of low iq

>>23217987
Socrates is brutal but cunning and Plato is cunning but brutal.

>>23218580
You completely misunderstand classical morality. The beautiful is good and the ugly is bad, simple as.

>>23217987
Scholars generally believe that Socrates' actual beliefs and words are more accurately portrayed in Plato's earlier works, while in the later one he's more just mouthpiece for Plato.

>>23220824
>Look at DIS guyz
>I gotsa girlfwen
>She luv me an I give her mah muny so shee wil neva leave me

You sad, pathetic man. This is why women have so much power over men, yet all we can do about it is glorify, defend them, and blame ourselves for their rigged dating circumstances, then ask them to marry us so that they can take at least half of our wealth as love collateral.

Please...just give me three days to download the audiobooks
https://mega.nz/folder/utchyAAK#GTVl1fINpekEch95xj8Fmg

>>23217987
she pretty cute, if that's your gf, you hit a lottery mate

>>23217987
yeah plato was right. beauty is objectively real.

>>23217987
Socrates banged kids

Plato was a greek so he probably did too but like...didnt get denounced for it

>>23220996
It wasn't against the law so it wasn't the wrong thing to do. Good on Socrates if he banged some horny boys and maybe girls.

Now, if it was today he would go to prison because that's illegal and thus wrong thing to do. Not to say that he shouldn't have banged children back in the day because of our contemporary laws.

>>23217987
Socrates: refused Mysteries, beard wife sham marriage to Xanthippe, basic construction worker, war veteran
>waiting for trial
>oracle said to listen to your dreams
>guess that means a play for children based off of Aesop's fables

Plato: initiated out the ass with Pythags; Nobility, jacked boxer/wrestler, studied under Heraclitean
>burnt his Dionysus Festival tragedy submission in offering to said God upon learning of Socratges/Philosoophy

>>23220996
>Socrates banged kids
Based off what evidence? corrupting the youth didn't mean he had sex with them, but brought ideas into their minds and made them think for themselves, there isn't really any evidence he had sex with them, it is actually denied in the symposium.
>>23220878
>You completely misunderstand classical morality
It was shown to be false exactly by people like Socrates, open your eyes, there are people who were attractive but morally reprehensible, Physical attributes have nothing to do with it, they are something completely external to a persons character and actions. If you were attractive but in court for murder saying ''I'm attractive though therefore i'm a good person'' wouldn't stand up.

There is nothing to understand because it is complete rubbish and was shown to be so over two thousand years ago, that's why no one with a working brain believes it.

>>23220878
https://www.idler.co.uk/article/beauty-is-truth-truth-beauty-yes-but-beware/

>>23217987
which socratic dialogues written by plato represent actual socrates, and not plato's views spoken by socrates?

>>23217987

Only ONE of them existed. I shall not disclose who.

>>23221726
me?

Socrates arguably existed, considering he is mentioned in Aristophanes clouds and by both Plato and Xenophon, Antisthenes also wrote Socratic dialogues, the problem is trying to figure out who he really was. There is also a few differing busts of the guy.
>>23221662
The earlier ones are more said to represent his actual beliefs.

>>23221782
which ones could be considered the early ones? Where can I see the cronological order?

>>23221822
This should help, cant remember the order off by heart considering there is so many of them
https://www.plato-dialogues.org/works.htm#:~:text=Dialogues%20which%20are%20certainly%20or,%2C%20Alcibiades%2C%20Socrates'%20Apology%2C

>>23217987
There isn't one. All Plato did was dictate the discourses of Socrates. For all intents and purposes Plato is Socrates. Even in his discourses that don't involve Socrates, his replacement, the Athenian Stranger, often holds the same views and opinions that Socrates would have, and plays the same part.

>>23218303
Plato was also a war hero

>>23217987
Socrates was a philosophical flaneur, whereas Plato was literally the first academic.

I'm reading pic related right now, and just read the introduction to Phaedo, and the editor went on and on about how it's about justifying the existence of a soul. I'm going to be super disappointed if that's the actual purpose of the bulk of this section. The previous sections were great reading and you can clearly see the influence on how these attitudes helped shape modern society, but fuck off if I'm expected to read 50 pages trying to justify spiritual immortality.

>>23217987
Source on this beautiful lady?

>>23222647
Jesse Jane

Socrates was pure and Plato was a heretic that wrote down the most divine mysteries. He should have been killed for it.

>>23218486
She is Blanca Soler, a Spanish model

>>23217987
Hot, healthy women still exist. I’m shocked.

I would uppercut that cunt and the simp filming

>>23222474
Accurate

>>23220878
You misunderstand it. Bad in classical morality does not mean anything morally, now why don't you go shove your quotations book up your fat fucking ass

>>23221480
Socrates argued against common sense moral values because he was ugly, that's why the Greeks did the right thing and sentenced him to death.

The Funny Contest:

The outcome here remains the same as before. Ockham's sharp wit and capacity for absurdity seem most likely to gain Plato's amusement.

The Fight: Plato & Ockham (with stick) vs. Aquinas & Augustine

Now, things get truly chaotic:

The Stick Factor: The big stick greatly increases Ockham's combat potential. It gives him reach, increased power, and some defensive capability.
Plato's Wrestling: Plato remains skilled in close-quarters combat, but a stick could easily neutralize his grappling advantage.
Teamwork: Ockham and Plato would need strong coordination to maximize their advantage. Ockham needs to use the stick's range while Plato prevents their opponents from closing the distance.
Aquinas & Augustine: They would need to overcome their less combative natures. Augustine's passion could be a weapon, but they likely need to overwhelm Ockham quickly before Plato can intervene.

The Outcome:

With the stick, Ockham's chances improve dramatically. Here's why:

Disruption: The stick changes the battlefield entirely. Its disruptive potential forces Aquinas and Augustine into uncertain territory.
Psychological Edge: A stick-wielding Ockham might be more confident, enhancing his performance.
Defensive Capability: The stick could keep Augustine at bay, buying Plato time to deal with Aquinas.

The big stick isn't a guarantee of victory, but it gives Ockham enough power and disruptive potential to shift the odds in his and Plato's favor.

>>23217992

>>23217987
Plato shoots at the "best" kind of wisdom (uniting the one and the many), while Socrates settles for the "second best" kind of wisdom (knowing that one knows nothing). This distinction in wisdom is made clear in Philebus, and Socrates's preference is made clear elsewhere (think about Socrates's "second sailing"). The idea that Socrates is merely Plato's mouthpiece is erroneous, yet Socrates is still a guiding force for dialectic in the dialogues, and Plato absolutely wants you to consider what Socrates has to say and perhaps even evolve beyond what he knew.

>>23223843
>Socrates argued against common sense moral values because he was ugly
How is basing good and bad on physical features and not actions and beliefs common sense?.

I am quite convinced that you are just a troll.

>>23224758
I am quite convinced that you are completely ignorant of classical morality. The Gods give a person an appearance that matches their spirit. If you require a good secondary source, I recommend starting with The Genealogy of Morality.

>>23224997
The Gods gave you an aura that matches your spirit.

>>23224997
>The Gods give a person an appearance that matches their spirit
Then explain why there are some people who are attractive but are despicable people, why do you keep ignoring this? why did you ignore the link i provided going on about Charmides?

>>23225091
Are you dense? Plato and Socrates rejected the morality of their time, they were extreme outliers. Socrates was sentenced to death for his moral transgressions.

>>23225494
>Plato and Socrates rejected the morality of their time
Yes, because it was bullshit what was easily refuted, that's why the executed him because he exposed that it was bullshit, you still didn't answer my question either, i ask again, why is there attractive people who are despicable people?, please do your best to answer.

Physical attractiveness degrades over time, by your reasoning that must mean people must also become bad as they age, unless physical features of course have absolutely nothing to do with morality.

>>23225494
>Something is popular so that means it's correct
Drinking copious amounts of alcohol until you are blacked out is popular but that doesn't mean you should do it or it is the right thing to do as you are poisoning your own body. Burning witches at the stake in medieval times was also a popular pastime.

I think there is a reason why goodness is not based on looks anymore(at least with relatively intelligent people) and why people like Socrates are still remembered over 2000 years later. He told people to mainly take care of their souls instead of their bodies which is temporary and decaying and irrelevant to virtue.

It's obvious you are never going to answer a simple question, so i am no longer going to waste my time, goodbye and have a good day.

>>23225563
There are no despicable attractive people, you are just suffering from the inverted morality of the resentful slave.

>>23225821
Irrational and deluded.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_Alcala
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bundy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Ramirez
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Atkins

>>23225821
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Rudolph
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Homolka
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bernardo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugsy_Siegel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Chase
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Woodfield
What is it that these two examples share? they are both attractive and criminals/serial killers.

>>23225904
Everyone dies bro, there is nothing inherently immoral about accelerating the process.