/lit/ - Literature

>>23210463 (lol)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShanFMO5nbE

>>23210463
And yet the standard Bible is descended from Martin Luther's rather than being the Catechism itself.

Also, the Catholic Church is the entire reason the Protestant Reformation started in the first place. The Orthodox Church is more legitimate if you actually want to follow the classic ways of the Church.

>>23210463
>This is a reminder that, without the Roman Catholic Church, the Holy Bible would have never been compiled into the book that it is.
All the more reason to hate the Catholic Church

>>23210488
>Also, the Catholic Church is the entire reason the Protestant Reformation started in the first place.
Really? I thought it was because Martin Luther wanted to bone a nun and Henry VIII wanted an annulment for the wife he eventually ended up beheading anyway.

>>23210488
>>23210550
(You)

>>23210488
>The Orthodox Church is more legitimate if you actually want to follow the classic ways of the Church.

Can you expand on this please?

>>23210463
the Inqueersition murdered the druids

someone better save motherfuckin' Merlin from that motherfuckin' cave

>>23210581
No

>>23210784
Yes

>>23210488
>The Orthodox Church is more legitimate if you actually want to follow the classic ways of the Church.
Which Orthodox Church are you talking about anyways? There are many old churches with their traditions and with the title "Orthodox" yet said churches claim not to be the same Church (and if you say some cope I will stab you btw [in Minecraft]).

>>23210952
EOC and ROC being in schism over Ukraine definitely feels odd from a western perspective. It'd be like France and England in the Hundred Years' War excommunicated each other's Catholic bishops just because of the war.

>>23210488
This is a very interesting point to me
Even though protestants, no matter how much mental gymnastics they conduct, cannot refute "muh canon", their study and work is basically the foundation of recent Catholicism and Orthodoxy rather than actual church tradition as is often claimed
Or maybe I just want to convince myself of protestantism so I can troon out with a somewhat cleaner conscience

>>23210581
Well everyone in Christianity is always making unsubstantiated claims, but the Orthodox descend from the eastern Roman Empire where the religion orginated, later known as the Byzantine Empire. And so they can make the claim that their way of worship was better preserved through the ages, whereas the western Roman Empire was reinvented and artificial. Aldo the oldest known churches look a lot more like they are Eastern Orthodox than Roman Catholic.

actual sincere questions from someone who has read he gospels and genesis so far and is taking an interest in Christianity and may potentially become a catholic if convinced:

>were does the heavy emphasis on praying to mary/saints come from in the bible

>what makes you think the Eucharist is literal and jesus words at the last supper werent just a continuation of the metaphoric motif that faith in christ is food for the soul that will make you live forever the way bread and wine are food for the body and keep one alive

>what makes you think that someone who preached the things Jesus preached in the gospels would send babies/people to hell over minor worldly ritualistic technicalities. even looking past the fact that this seems to clash with christs ethical teachings, the way he talked about putting the spirit of the law over the word of the law, its also a pretty bit recurring theme, IIRC, that jesus breaks some rules himself like doing things on sabbath when he wasn't supposed to

>>23210581
Try to find the Vatican and the Pope in the NT.
Then count the Orthodox Church[es] mentioned in the NT.
/discussion

>>23211147
The main Catholic prayer to Mary is basically just text taken directly from the Gospel of Luke, so it's biblical in that regard. Saints are just people we know are in heaven, so since God already wants us to know the good example of others (through the Bible) it's an act of humility to want the intercession of those who we know went before us. Catholics don't also "pray to" saints; they pray to God while asking saints to help put a good word in.

Jews were very, very culturally opposed to anything resembling cannibalism and this made Jesus' very literal statements about having to eat his body shocking and in all likelihood stomach-turning to his Jewish audience. It's not the kind of thing Jesus would have just metaphorically said to get a message across; it is literally shown to be the thing that makes most of his listeners leave out of discomfort. For a more historical example the real presence of the Eucharist is affirmed by Ignatius of Antioch, who learned from and ate with the Apostle John who was at the Crucifixion.

In my experience Catholics are some of the least likely Christians to make blanket statements about if someone will or won't "go to hell." Hell is the result of sin, and Catholics distinguish between concepts of Original and Actual Sin as well as Vincible and Invincible Ignorance that serve as general guides for what might be expected, but the ultimate judgment is God's, who is ultimately merciful while still respect human free will.

>>23211147
Just read Saint John of Damascus
An Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith
Also Saint Athanasius and Saint Maximus.

>>23211204
>dude, just read a couple thousand pages of three people tackling different issues whose only common point is that they have nothing to do with the questions asked
I do not understand how you can make recommendations like these
What is someone whose only experience of Christ reading the gospels and Genesis (and probably some low church theology) supposed to get out of St John of Damascus' handbook directed at ecclesiastics?
And where exactly in St Maximus would he find answers to his questions?
>>23211147
>were does the heavy emphasis on praying to mary/saints come from in the bible
The argument is based on a total view of what the Bible says: God constantly works through flesh and bone individuals as well as angels and receives the intercession of one in favour of another. We ask of the Saints to pray for us as we would of our friends, just that they are in Heaven
Special Marian devotion is grounded on her unique holiness as the Woman who bore God
>eucharist
Paul who helped build many of the first Churches treats the Eucharist as a supernatural force.
>third question
I honestly agree with your implicit conclusion so I'm not sure I'm qualified to respond

>>23210581
The original structure of the church was very decentralized, with many bishops and a number of influential archbishops, the Pope being one of them. However, the Papacy ended up centralizing its hold over western Europe and Catholicism devolved into a religion with one infallible head of state. By the Medieval period and especially the dawn of the Renaissance, the Popes had become more akin to feudal lords than spiritual leaders.