/lit/ - Literature

sucking dick for crack

Mcdonalds or Wal-Mart jobs

teaching english

get an english degree->go to law school->get a job in a non-law field

swish!

you could be a marijuana delivery man

Sell drugs

get teaching certification during undergrad

look into teaching English overseas

don't ever expect to make more than enough for living

alternatively, major in English but simultaneously take the necessary coursework for a lucrative graduate/professional degree if continuing your education is financially viable

>>2316839

owe nearly a million dollars in student loan debt to get some job you could've worked your way up to within the company?

you could've actually MADE money for 7+ years

>>2316851
Not OP, but what professional degrees can you try to get with an English major other than Law?

>>2316857

there's literally TONS of shit. like, you could go to med school, or get an MBA, or become a librarian, etc. you'll have to do some serious research.

also, the major isn't as relevant as the actual coursework on your transcript and your references.

>>2316857
You can go to medical school if you're an English major as well as law school.

>>2316857

also, if you're American, understand that many institutions of higher education (ESPECIALLY for professional degrees) are diploma mills for taking your money. it's incredibly easy to get screwed.

>>2316866
What about finance?

>>2316872

This makes me so sad. I'm English, but I lived in Chicago for a while, and the friends I made there tell me the same horror story about higher education -- how much it costs, how it's essentially mandatory for any kind of decent job, all the blocks set up against working-class folks trying to get a decent education, or leave the state...

A real shame.

>>2316886
It shouldn't make you sad. All of these walls are set up in order to ensure that only the most driven will get through successfully.

>>2316894
ya, i'm sure that's why its set up... and not to ensure a class difference.
the system was also similar for blacks 60 years ago; many of the well-to-do blacks were the most hard-working, of course, but they were also against the civil rights movement because they wrongly thought that the rest of the black population was just ignorant and weak-minded.

where do I pick up books like in op's pic? I'm looking for worn, but slightly ornate.

>>2316911
Nope, it's not to ensure a class difference. I know many lazy upper class children who have failed to succeed, and just as many poor driven children who have climbed and climbed.

You get what you put in. If you want a hint of what you should be doing, go look up some stuff by "Dragon Mom." She's pretty insufferable, but the discipline she instills into her children is spot-on.

>>2316911
>wrongly thought

I don't know about that. I think most of the world is pretty ignorant and weak-minded. It's certainly not just the blacks.

>>2316916
lol the entire history of civilization has been largely about ensuring a class difference.

>>2316915

buy books by the foot. i know the strand in nyc offers it.

http://www.strandbooks.com/books-by-the-foot/

>>2316925
[citation needed]

If you're hard working, intelligent, enterprising, creative, and charismatic, you will do well.

>>2316936
this nigga still believe in the american dream

>>2316938
If you have something to offer to people, they'll want you.

>>2316936

*fart*

you've drunk the punch my friend. this is no meritocracy. either you plop out of the right vagina or you get straight up LUCKY and fall ass-backwards into something lucrative. "hard work" my asshole.

>>2316926
This is one of the funniest/best business ideas I have ever come across.

>>2316949

yeah it's kind of depressing, right? "hmm i have a lot of money and i want people who visit my home to think i'm well read. what to do...."

i guess someone has to cater to the intellectually shallow asses of the world.

>>2316955

i especially like how you can color code your books by indicating a specific color. holy shit.

>>2316946
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What I've figured out through my own experience has been that everyone who complains about the death of the American/Canadian dream doesn't have the talent or drive necessary to succeed.

I worked my ass off through my undergrad, won scholarship after scholarship after scholarship, and am now in my country's top law school and on track to working in one of the highest paying firms in my city.

I came from a lower-middle class family, with absolutely no family connections, and worked part time jobs all through my highschool and undergrad years. I rarely partied, only had quiet relationships with girlfriends, and mostly spent my nights hunched over my books studying late into the night.

I'm going to graduate with no debt (actually I'm sitting on maybe 100k from all my savings and investments and scholarships and grants) and a low 6 figure starting income.

You get what you put in. Consider working harder.

>>2316946
I disagree. I came from a lower-middle class family. I got accepted into an independent school in New England with a healthy amount of financial aid. Everyone one else in my class was a dynasty student, a token minority, or had donated ludicrous amounts of money to the school. I was the only working-class white kid in my grade who did not have a single relative who went there. I will be going to a top-tier college soon. I became well liked in high school and I'll have amazing connections through college. If I keep things up, I'll have a well paying job, retire early, and be able to provide a nicer life for my parents and children.

Maybe it was luck.

>>2316993
If I could offer you some advice, don't get sucked into the drinking culture in college. The dynasty students don't need to give a shit, but you need to keep those grades up. And start your summer job hunt in December. Good luck, man. Hope you succeed.

>>2316993
>I'll have amazing connections through college. If I keep things up, I'll have a well paying job, retire early, and be able to provide a nicer life for my parents and children.

sure is a lot of conjecture in here.

>>2316970

i don't know what country you live in bro. class stratification and class mobility may be different where you live. i'm talking about america, not poland or wherever the fuck you're from.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/us/harder-for-americans-to-rise-from-lower-rungs.html?_r=1&pag
ewanted=all&fb_source=message

>>2316970
lol look guys its the mythical college bootstraps student

http://persephonemagazine.com/2011/10/dont-even-get-me-started-mythical-bootstraps-college-student/

(actually if you're from canada this may be plausible, because i imagine you have all kinds of things up there that are far too sensible and socialistic for us)

>>2317008
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm from Canada. You can't spell, you can't into grammar, and you cite a New York Times article. You seem like a lazy person grabbing for an excuse.

>>2316998
Thank you.

I've been able to avoid drugs and alcohol in school, so that shouldn't be too much of a problem. Plus, I'm probably going to end up going to a liberal arts college in New England, so the drinking culture probably isn't that huge.

>>2317009
>(actually if you're from canada this may be plausible, because i imagine you have all kinds of things up there that are far too sensible and socialistic for us)

What we have in Canada is a system that rewards the top students. If you consistently rank in the front of your classes, they shower you scholarships and grants like you wouldn't believe. I still worked in the summers to put myself through school, though. I put all my awards money into long term investments.

i just don't even begin to understand how somebody thinks 4chna is the place to come for college advice

like come to /lit/ for book recs, okay, but shit, this is your life that you're asking an anonymous image board with banner ads advertising "anime stress toys" to give you guidance on

like that's your life dude!

>>2316993

oh blow me. i spent my entire life WELL below the poverty line, subsisting on food stamps with one parent with a high school diploma and the other with a GED. i attended the shittiest public schools in my county and i still got into an ivy. and afterward, i have nothing to show for it. meanwhile all of my classmates were coming from the upper strata of society--it was incredible. they're all doing pretty well for themselves. they were born rich and they'll stay rich. people like you and me are born into a box and for the most part we stay there. i might have ascended a few levels in terms of social and cultural status, but economically? i'm only barely above where i started. the whole game is rigged, man.

>>2317011

>I'm probably going to end up going to a liberal arts college in New England, so the drinking culture probably isn't that huge.

holy shit please tell me this is a fakepost

>>2317019
What did you do while you were at your Ivy? What were your grades? What initiative did you show to job hunt? What degree did you graduate with? How did you network?

An Ivy education means jack by itself. You need to DO STUFF, you know? Go and find a job.

>>2317010

neither my grammar nor my spelling is incorrect in that post. stay in alberta.

>>2317014
yeah, that's cool. i was more referring to # and value of grants and scholarships given in general, i figure you probably have more per cap. also possibly just a lower tuition overall, idek tho, not really important.

>>2317018
i agree with this in general, college threads are the worst threads, i'm only posting in this one because My Political Views Are Too Important

>>2316970

I also disagree. For one thing, you're totally ignoring biology and parenting, which comes down to luck. I'm at a good private university in the US, I've always been in the top of my class, I've always scored very highly on standardized tests, and I would be lying if I said I worked harder than everyone else. I didn't. School is easy for me, hence scholarships and job opportunities have also come easily. I know plenty of people who studied more than me, but simply couldn't do as well.

While I think working hard is important, I don't think working hard is enough to succeed. You also need some luck.

Additionally, in the US, depending on where you live, the public school system is a shit hole. There are schools referred to as "failure factories," where the teachers are terrible and there is no funding. Hardly any graduates of these schools make it to college; many don't graduate. Are you seriously going to argue that lower-income children, across the board, are lazier than others? I recommend watching the documentary "Waiting for Superman" to learn about inequalities in the US public school system.

I'm not saying you can't "make it" with hard work. I'm saying you also need luck, and that there's always other people who work just as hard as you and still don't make it. Likewise, some people don't work hard at all, and get life handed to them on a silver platter.

There, now I can sleep soundly.

>>2317024

i studied english like OP--and spare me the "you studied a useless major" argument, that holds no water with me. my grades were excellent. what did i do? i got published, interned at publishing houses and magazines, and worked my way through school. i live in the biggest city on the east coast and it's ridiculous. it's not about what you know, rather it's WHO you know (go read some mark granovetter and get back to me). my problem was because i came from such a different world than my peers, we had a difficult time understanding each other. but that's immaterial to your point about hard work being the determinant factor of success.

>>2317022
I guess I worded that badly.

I know it's present, but it's not like it's inescapable, right?

>>2317039

well probably varies from place to place but like i went to a small college in upstate nys (almost new england basically) and it was absolutely huge

like talk to people from the places you're considering i reckon

>>2317033
I'm not denying the existence of those who live easy lives fed to them off of a silver spoon, but why are we even talking about them?

Life is not fair. This is a game, and it will always be rigged against you. And the longer you spend whining and moaning about those who have it better off than you, the less time you spend hitting the books and exercising and bettering yourself. If the game is rigged, then the only thing you can do is work harder and push yourself for longer hours.

I'm a really firm believer in work ethic, but I do concede your point about the plain dumb luck of natural intelligence. Just like you, I've always been naturally gifted with a high intelligence and have succeeded at school because of it. But I gave up a lot of my youth working and studying that my peers wasted partying and dicking around on vidya.

And another thing---studying more does not = studying well. If I put in 2 hours of studying time and achieve a mark of 97, and another person puts in 10 hours of studying time and achieves a mark of 75, the first thing that I think is that they haven't taught themselves how to study efficiently. Success in the schooling system is learning how to play a game, against the system, and against your own mind. I'm a private tutor, and the one mantra that I repeat over and over to my students is to play the game properly. Say what they want you to say, do what they want you to do, jump through the hurdles they put in front of you, and learn how to make your mind work for you.

I'll definitely check out _Waiting for Superman_, and I really do feel for you American bros who work your ass off and graduate into that nightmare of an economy. I hope it gets better.

>>2317046
I have. Where did you go?

>>2316806

Oh, and to stay on topic... OP, if you love literature or writing I would recommend getting a double major, English and something more... marketable. You should be able to if you take enough hours each semester.

If you must pick one, then English is great for law and teaching, like everyone has said. Sure, you can land other jobs, but you'll need to back up your major with strong networking, a great GPA, and probably some extracurricular leadership positions.

Your undergraduate major isn't super important in some fields, especially business, but in this economic climate it helps to have a relevant major. Also, you can always go to grad school, but that's a big time and money investment.

>>2317050

st lawrence university

>>2317036
How much research did you do into the state of the publishing industry right now before you chose that specialization?

I majored in English lit as well, and I also interned at major literary journals while working through my undergrad, but I had no illusions about pursuing a lucrative career in that field. That is simply NOT where you go if you want money. I think it's ridiculous that you expect your economic status to jump when you specialize in a field is widely known to pay very little, have very few job openings, and is rapidly shrinking since the contraction of the publishing industry in the mid-2000s.

I feel like you should have done a bit more research into the practicality of your degree.

>>2317057
Funny. I actually have an older friend who went there.

>>2317074

i still secretly suspect it's a performance art installation set up by bret easton ellis

>>2317068

now now, don't move the goalposts my budding sophist. this argument is about the myth of the meritocracy and class advancement, not the value of a given degree or field.

>>2317083
TL;DR: go back to law school. You didn't have an end-game plan.

>>2317083
yes but you see, if you're A Poor and you chose to major in english, you deserve to eat dirt for your poor, non-renumerative decisions, you fucking scum. you make me sick. if you're A Rich, it's all good though. you deserve it for working so hard. GOD BLESS THE RICH AND AMERICA, MAY NOTHING ABOUT IT EVER CHANGE, IF YOU ARE NOT RICH IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT AND NOBODY ELSE'S

>>2317090

dat calvinism

You could be looking for a job right now.

>>2317090

haha seriously. people who think this way are sort of tipping their hand that they're a-ok with a permanent underclass. hey man, SOMEONE'S gotta be a janitor. let the affluent concern themselves with the arts--go do something USEFUL you POOR.

>>2317097
yeah totally

also, like, i am basically okay with the notion that some people are not going to be as well off as others, what bothers me is the notion that if you're not well-off you have a moral imperative to be working at all times to improve your condition, and if you're not, you have no right to complain ever. i kind of want a country where you can be comfortable as a janitor and spend some time on leisure. also, one where the wealthy are not obscenely wealthy and absurdly overpowerful.

is that too much to ask (apparently yes)

>>2317092

yeah don't get me started on how the calvinist colonists are the reason why we're still stuck with this obstinate fucking myth that continues to hold us back and tear us apart.

>mfw all the stupid poor people in this thread complaining about not knowing the right rich silver-spoon people

You wouldn't like us anyway. We're pretty boring because we work so hard all the time

>>2317097

I think here is where people seem to have a divided opinion on what exactly the "American Dream" means.

On the one hand, people say that the American Dream is working hard to improve one's situation in spite of an unjust system. I can buy that; I mean, you can bitch about the injustices you must face, but that's not going to help you. Might as well do your damnedest to climb your way up; it's an unjust system, but you're still stuck in it and you will play by its rules.

On the other hand, some people seem to think that the American Dream is that America is a perfect meritocracy where all the hard working and talented succeed and all the lazy inept people fail. This is bullshit. This has never been the case, and it isn't the case now.

>>2317124
hey just a suggestion maybe "we can work to change the system so it's not so shitty" because that's what "fucking politics" is for

>>2317124
Thank you. I'm not saying that everyone who works their ass off will succeed. I'm just saying that you can really improve your odds and play the game a lot more successfully if you try your best and make intelligent and realistic decisions based on your personal situation.

>>2317124

god help us. you realize that the entire point of america was that it was supposed to AVOID developing into an oligarchy. the founding fathers were specifically trying to keep an aristocracy from developing in this country. this:

>the American Dream is that America is a perfect meritocracy where all the hard working and talented succeed and all the lazy inept people fail.

WAS THE ENTIRE POINT OF AMERICA

>>2317133
although i think that's fundamentally true, at the same time i feel like taking that position can shade over into apologia for a totally shitty system. it often can become a reason to preserve the system. yes: obviously there are things you can do to make it more likely that you will attain monetary success in life. but that's kind of immaterial to an argument about the flaws of the system.

>>2317139
You see, I'm kind of a realist about things. I don't think we're going to change this system at all. I don't really care about the flaws in the system. I accept them and look for ways to beat those odds. If you see a weakness in a system, you can change the ENTIRE system (good luck) or you can change yourself. I'd rather work on myself. It seems more manageable.

And to the other anon complaining about the founding ideals of America, you keep on dreaming and fighting the good fight. I'm more intent on making a good life for myself and my family.

>>2317145

behold, the coward american as he sings the song of the bird who has come to love its cage.

>>2317150
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I've got a 6 figure job starting in May the moment I receive my J.D. The first thing I'll be doing is to move my parents into a better home. I'm OK with my cage.

>>2317135
>actually believes that countries should live up to their founding ideals

This is so cute.

>>2317159

look everyone, they're letting him sit at the kids table! aw he's so proud, too! he thinks he must be special. how adorable!

>>2317165

cynicism and irony killed us all.

>>2317173
I like what Zizek has to say about cynicism. :)

>>2317135

I feel you, I really do. However, I honestly think that your best shot at improving the system is to get yourself into a position of at least moderate power. Most people aren't charismatic enough to be some sort of leader rallying the proletariat... it's a lot more reasonable to try and work your way up and if you make it, remember where you came from. If you become the boss, give back to the poor and treat your employees better than your boss treated you.

That or become a teacher. Then you can influence more people to think critically about the system.

I've tipped my hand... I believe in evolutionary change.

What can someone do with a law degree besides practice law?

>>2317186
Be the president or the first lady.

>>2317145
you can do both. politics! that's why it exists! obviously, i'm going to try to make my own way in the world, but at the same time. you know? because making this country a better place more in line with its founding virtues is a good thing.

>>2317178

you mean this?

http://www.egs.edu/faculty/slavoj-zizek/articles/cynicism-as-a-form-of-ideology/

our J.D. friend over there should read it. i just glanced over it really quick and this stuck out:

>Cynicism is the answer of the ruling culture to this kynical subversion: it recognizes, it takes into account, the particular interest behind the ideological universality, the distance between the ideological mask and the reality, but it still finds reasons to retain the mask.

yeah no shit. this thread is a perfect example of that.

>>2317188
zing

>>2317186

anything, really. it's a great background to have to do whatever you want. you don't have to take the bar exam and go into a practice.

>>2317192
>mfw I am the J.D. friend who likes Zizek's take on cynicism
>mfw Zizek is also a part of the ruling culture, actually going so far as to run for the Slovenian presidency, along with a lifelong cushy academia grade job.

Get on our level, friend. :)

>>2317168

Good one.

But seriously, how does remaining poor help you to improve the system? True, I think there are too many people who falsely believe that America is a perfect meritocracy. I understand that this is the "American ideal," I just think it's an ideal that has yet to be realized.

>>2317200

alright i just embarassed myself. i just skimmed it and i took it to mean that the culture at large identifies the difference between the ruling ideology and the reality, but chooses to maintain the illusion by calculating for the disparity and keeping the status quo.

and i do believe zizek's presidential campaign was a subversive act.

>>2317203

the "american experiment" was basically a failure, but it doesn't have to continue to be so. i do not want to remain poor, nor do i want to be super rich. in fact i wish both extremes didn't exist.

>>2317210
I believe he did it quite sincerely. He talks at great length about his run for presidency in the documentary _Zizek!_ It's a great watch and quite hilarious. Highly recommended.

You're an intelligent guy, and I'm getting tired of this argument because we're simply at an impasse. I have my views (cynical and realist) and you have yours (idealist and optimist). I hope things work out for you.

>>2317215

inb4 "commy"

>mfw I can do undergrad law in my country.

>>2317115
I claw at the east-coast Puritan soil and curse these people.

>>2317145
Oh, you're one of those repulsive "I'll-just-keep-my-head-down" types. I hope your children die in a carfire.

>>2317264

You can in the US too.

>>2317188
I'd like to have a political career at some point.

OP, I was an English major. Really loved English and majoring in it. Couldn't have asked for a better academic experience.

That being said, I wish someone just told me to major in econ.

In reality, if you are a humanities student it makes little to no difference in what you major.

History, Politics, Philosophy, Psychology, English - it's essentially all the same shit and no degree in and of itself is inherently useful.

Accept that for some serious $$$ you are going to have to do graduate-level studies - and even then you may never be wealthy, certainly not within the next decade unless you are seriously lucky.

Just do what interests you and study as hard as you can so that you can keep your options open as possible. Good grades look good on a resume, in fact; employers will often take good grades from a lesser university than poor grades from a university of a higher-standard.

>>2317365

We are in desperate need of politicians with an understanding of science who cannot be swayed by money.

If you're going into politics to sell your soul for the money, it doesn't matter what you study but whom you know.

If you consider yourself incorruptible, why not go for a science degree.

>>2318269
We are in desperate need of scientists period.