/lit/ - Literature

>>23140646
What did they call the Butlerian Jihad in the flick?

>>23140646
In the movie, the Fremen are portrayed similarly to North African muslims. Lots of terms are taken directly from Arabic. And the most damning evidence, of course, is the story.

>>23140646
It's been a while since I've read it but I remember "jihad" being used quite a lot. For example, one of the most important events in the Dune universe was the Butlerian Jihad (the rise against the computer overlords). There are still some muslim words used in the film though, I believe Usul and Lisan Al'Gaib are arabic words. The guy who made the fremen langauge for the film gave the excuse that language would evolve over thousands of years so the fremen langauge isn't going to match up exactly with modern-day arabic (which is a bullshit excuse because in the first film Paul and Yueh speak modern-day Mandarin lol). The real reason is that studio executives didn't want audiences to sympathize with Jihadists and also didn't want to offend arabs with the insinuation that the jihadists will end up committing a horrible genocide

>>23140691
crusade or holy war, I think.

>>23140663
They don’t use jihad, they use crusade or holy war, I think.

The new movie feels involuntarily pro-Palestinian given the recent events. Hollywood Jews making a pro-Palestine movie wasn’t on my bingo card.

>>23140698
>which is a bullshit excuse because in the first film Paul and Yueh speak modern-day Mandarin lol
From my understanding of the Dune lore, some religions/cultures/languages were more well preserved than others. That very well is a fair discrepancy to point out but it makes sense for English and Mandarin to be highly preserved beyond Earth due to America and China being major empires in the past.
>studio executives didn't want audiences to sympathize with Jihadists and also didn't want to offend arabs
They wouldn’t have made literally every other aspect of the Fremen directly influenced or copied from MENA culture.

>>23140725
Ironic considering Timmy Chalamet is a zionist

>>23140725
I think it's just another episode of "creator tries to portray bad thing as bad but ends up portraying it as good and people love it".

>>23140741
Chalamet is a member of the elect?

>>23140850
>elect
Not quite. Think of a synonym.

>>23140646
Paul is called the "Mahdi". Mahdi in Islam is an eschatological figure. Descendant of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), and he arrives first before the second coming of Prophet Jesus (pbuh).

which cover autism bros

>>23141064

>>23140646
Herbert did a lot of preparatory research for Dune, but a disproportionate amount of it is lifted straight out of Sabres of Paradise, by Leslie Blanch. It covers the Caucasus Shiites wars with Russia, particularly their leader Shamil. There are a lot of syncretic elements beside this thrown in the mix.

It can refer to two events. One is the butlerian jihad, which is when humanity rose up against thinking machines.

The second one is the jihad of mau'dib during which the fremen ravage their way across the galaxy in the name of Paul. it happens between the first and the second book.

>>23141064

>>23140663
thety dont even mention what a mentat is

>>23141064
The third one

>>23140741
it adds up the mua'dib is also half harkonnen

>>23141210
> he thinks the mighty Imam Shamil was a caucasus shi'ite.

Lmao it's already over for you (Though the rest of your post is true and the sabres of paradise is amazing).

>>23141064
>>23141181

Is it worth watching the movie if I don't remember any names or really even the plot of the first one and have never read the books? All I know is there was Häkkinen somewhere

>>23140836
Not quite. The film clearly portrays the Harkonnens, Bene Gesserit, the Emporer, Jessica, and Paul as the villains. Towards the end, whenever Paul does something bad they always cut to Chani looking sad/angry to make it clear to the audience how they are supposed to feel. It’s laughable how much handholding the film does when it comes to moral issues. As for why studio executives would fund a film that makes colonialists look bad, I think it’s just a case of studio executives not caring about anything in the film, they just care if the film makes money. The director has a proven track record of making critical and commercial successes so they’re just like “let’s just give him money and let him do his thing and we’ll make bank.”

>>23142758
If that was the point, then they failed. The people in my audience were talking about how cool Paul was as we were coming out of the movie. Unless someone is a raging atheist liberal, that’s what you take from the film.

>>23140646
It's extremely relevant. I don't know how not one reply has mentioned it yet, but the Jihad is a way for the human race to revitalise itself from decline and stagnation through killing off the weak and mixing the strongest bloodlines together.
Paul foresees that it will probably happen and tries to avoid it for most of the first book but eventually gets mind broken by the death of his son and decides to no longer resist it happening.
>>23142758
Haven't watched the film yet but I think Herbert's idea was that all of them are villains, some are just worse than the other. Everyone is just playing amoral politics. The Atreides are a bit better than the Harkonnens but only Duke Leto actually cared about people and he fails to pass that on to Paul.

>>23141064
book covers with movie art or "as seen on the hit motion picture!" make me irrationally angry

>>23141064
I have 8
I think 3 is the coolest though

>>23142778
It's Starship Troopers all over again. Peoples media literacy is so bad that none can make the distinction of something in face value being cool, but using 0.1% of your brain, it's obviously morally wrong and intellectually corrosive. Paul's speech to the freemen council is badass but it's also fucking evil that's he's manipulating people for his own ends, which results in trillions of people dying.

>>23142549
No, that was baron Raikonnen.

>>23143753
The fault is mostly with the filmmakers. They make something cool and then they pretend in interviews that it’s actually bad. They would write an evil murdering psychopath and then cast a handsome actor and give him badass lines. It’s just giving mixed signals to the audience. It’s like that Brazilian movie Elite Squad where you’re meant to hate le heckin fascist cops but then turns out they’re badass (lol).

>>23140646
>Dune was published in 1965. It’s hard for young people to realize how impossible, how far-fetched, how unlikely the term "jihad" sounded back then. Islamic countries were modernizing. If there was a historical movement that would affect them it was Marxist, not Islamic. So when Frank Herbert chose to dramatize jihad, he wasn’t anticipating the next big thing, he was choosing a term that felt arcane, retro, quaint.

> The new version of Dune appearing in 2021, after a wave of real jihadis had terrified the West, has obscured the key fact that jihad was not a threat in anyone’s mind back in 1965, no matter what Al Jazeera opinion writers care to think.

>The idea that Herbert was anticipating future trends leads in a wrong direction and it misses the magpie, no-footnotes style of pulp SF/F writers of the 1960s. Writers like Philip K. Dick, Jack Vance and Frank Herbert took what they needed from their autodidact reading in public libraries.

>They did choose terms that would turn out to be very significant, but that wasn’t because they were good students in the traditional sense but rather good magpies; they could flip through an encyclopedia and see the dangerous green glow coming off certain entries. They had a healthy contempt for research, and trusted to amphetamines and a glutinous memory for concepts that might work in a novel.

>"Jihad" was one such concept, a word that made the Bay Area SF/F crowd slobber excitedly because it allowed them to dream of a far future in which monotheism, a rather boring concept in mid-twentieth century America, could be welded together with high-tech ultra-violence of a sort much more appealing than B-52s bombing the South-East Asian jungle.

>For all his fans’ talk about Herbert’s deep research for Dune, the novel doesn’t show much interest in the endless, legalistic discussion of the concept in Islamic law and tradition. "Jihad" occurs only 33 times in the book, and none of these occurrences show much familiarity with Islamic legal wrangling. They are much more about "the race" meaning "human" but still with very early-twentieth-century militaristic implications.

>Jihad was, among other things, a more acceptable way of reviving the notion of sacred war than other race-based ideologies which we need not mention.

>>23143753
>Paul is le bad
He's a footnote and anything he did bad Wormboy did 10,000 times worse. There is a reason we don't let 190,000lb incels (and incels after 4,000 years of life) rule.

>>23143778
>They would write an evil murdering psychopath and then cast a handsome actor and give him badass lines. It’s just giving mixed signals to the audience
That's 100% general audiences being too stupid. Verhoeven made it crystal clear in the film and in interviews that it's about fascism and their propaganda. Everyone just takes things literally all the time since it's easy. The same thing can be said for Villenueve. One of the worst parts of the film is the lack of subtlety in showing Paul being a bad dude in the end. Yeah, he's badass, but Paul keeps telling the audience that going South means genocide. Did everyone just forget 2/3 of the plot?

I hope it's just a lack of media literacy and education that makes people come to these wrong conclusions. But, I'm pretty sure I'm just being overly hopeful

>>23141181
Dune isnt adult enough to warrant having a cover of this quality

>>23143860
Since it keeps happening and happening the issue also lies with the filmmakers. I don’t think filmmakers understand the issue either.

>>23143860
Paul is the good guy, always has been. He walks the Golden Path.

Anasurimbur Kellhus is also the good guy.

>>23143753
>It's Starship Troopers all over again
Leftoids once again see mass murdering bugs and think >HES LITERALLY ME
>>23143860
>t Paul keeps telling the audience that going South means genocide. Did everyone just forget 2/3 of the plot?
After Paul ingested the magic drank he was able to see the future and now can guide humanity to a path that doesn't lead to genocide, and that is what he's doing. Paul is not a villain (yet). The weird insistence on Chani is just modern day hollywood trying to give Zendaya something to do. In the book Chani is much more supportive and there isn't any of this gay north/south Fremen split.

>>23143883
Genuinely, the only ways to fix this are improving American education or having literal taglines in the beginning of the film of what the film is about. The latter ruins art to a degree, but at least morons can be rightfully harassed on their opinions by the film itself

>>23143943
Or don’t stylize evil to the point they make it cool.

>>23140646
it's mentioned like a dozen times

>>23143933
The bugs are bad, too. They're literally framed as fascist drones. They are, however, not worse than than Federation because the Federation is perpetuating the conflict (literally no one would die if the Federation stopped invading), and they're throwing children in the fascist meat grinder. Nice shitty excuse though

>>23140698
The Fremen are the descendents of buddislamic refugees, so it's understandable that they wouldn't just speak arabic, theoretically there would be an equal share of urdu mixed in. But yes, I agree that there was a conscious decision to avoid visible religious imagery. I don't believe there was any mention of the Orange Catholic Bible either, which appears several times in the book.

>>23143963
>Best girl is best girl fan
Holy shit

>>23143963
>the Federation is perpetuating the conflict
The bugs did that when they destroyed Buenos Aires. Everything coming to them is justified retribution
.

>>23144036
Buenos Aires deserved to be destroyed, though. It’s full of trannies and degens.

>>23143948
That ruins a distinct way to criticize evil. Evil is always manipulative. If the metaphorical good side always shows evil as ugly and undesirable. Evil can then always show their evil beliefs as desirable. People would rather lean to the optimistic vision that Evil makes than the pessimistic view Good makes on the subject of Evil; in a 1 v 1. That's why the metaphorical Good showing Evil in its own terms, but shows the inversion inherent in that false vision. Is just another tool in Goods arsenal. Evil can portray good as weak and itself strong. While Good can portray itself as strong, Evil weak, and Evils best attempt of manipulation as stupid to the knowledgable.

>>23144036
The Federation did that to justify their invasion.

>>23144043
They can’t attempt to criticize evil and make it seem appealing at the same time. It’s counterintuitive which is why this approach fails and gets in the way of their desired intentions. This is not the audience’s fault.

>>23144036
The film is an in-universe propganda film. If they blame the asteroid on the bugs (who are an entire galaxy away, btw), that makes a narrative hook for us, the audience, and the in-universe audience who'll want to kill the bugs. When really the asteroid destroyed Buenos Aires because Carmen changed its trajectory. What makes more sense? Bugs that can't space travel have a way to move an asteroid, a galaxy away, and are only shown as being defensive, or the Federation who started the conflict and are always shown as being on the offensive, using the asteroid as a false flag to start a war they want?

You should really focus on your media literacy, anon.

>>23141064
Missing my preference.

>>23144076
Two reasons (of many) Fascism happened was due to the uniforms and the ideals of making "perfect" people for a "perfect" society.If you can't criticize this side of evil, it'll happen again. The audience has to learn this through education and art. Just because artist is doing everything correctly but some of the audience can't see the vision, doesn't mean it's the artist fault

>>23140715
>crusade
lol typical hollywood of course they did

>>23144050
>>23144086
>Being this deluded into defending the bugs
Even the retarded director who mischaracterized the book acknowledges that the bugs were responsible for the asteroid.
https://twitter.com/FatSunTzu/status/1760171729631273068

>>23143883
>Since it keeps happening and happening the issue also lies with the filmmakers.
There is literally nothing the filmmakers can do at this point other than just having a text on screen that says "THIS GUY IS BAD BTW".

>>23144645
They could properly portray the bad guys. Instead they look for the handsomest actors, the most aesthetic costumes and the coolest dialogues. Then get surprised when people gravitate towards that characters. If many people don’t get your sarcasm chances are it’s your fault. Same goes for portrayals of evil.

>>23141064
I don't have any of these. :(
>>23144101
That's the one I have. :)

>>23141064

Aiel mog the Fremen.

>>23140698
If my understanding of history holds up, islam wasn't as in conflict with the west when Herbert wrote Dune as it is today, so the choice in terminology did not age well but was probably viewed unproblematically at the time. Another weird notion Herbert had, was that in the far future the dominant religion would be Zensunni, a combination of buddhism and islam lol. Buddhism was really in vogue among the educated western populace at the time, so Herbert must've made an extrapolation that didn't hold up. He might be right that Islam ends up being the last religion left, though.

>>23144101
I have this one. Didn't know anything about Dune when I bought it and was surprised at how thick it is when it arrived in the mail kek.

>>23141064
Second from the right up top is objectively the most aesthetic. NOW A MAJOR MOTION PICTURE obnoxiously defaces most of the rest. Also using the actors faces on a cover for a book that was adapted to film ought to be a crime. It's tacky in the extreme and also disrespectful. The reader should have the pleasure of inventing their own private mental image of the characters.

>>23141064
Top left is a really cool image, but as a book cover it might not work. I like the third one over on the top as a hardcover. I own a copy of the bottom right two which are good paperback covers.

Everything else is trash.

>>23140725
Kwisatz Haderach does come from the Jewish K'fitzat ha-Derekh after all.
>>23141064
I have 8 and it's serviceable. A buddy of mine has 5 and they are really neat too.
If I could choose I'd go for 7 but good luck finding those.
>>23143969
>Orange Catholic Bible
I think in the first movie there is a shot where someone reads a small book which I assumed to be the OCB. But it's more like Paul's "Sing me a song Gurney" where I think it's just a nod to people who have read the books, but it's not really "part" of the movie.

>>23143753
>>23143814
Paul and Leto II's actions are objectively morally correct.

>>23141064
This picture doesn’t show 1’s blue-within-blue page edges, which complete the aesthetic.

>>23145256
That's a nice cover design. Did AI make it?

>>23144660
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hdXTohdKcm4&pp=ygUdUGljYXJkIGRydW1oZWFkIGVuZGluZyBzcGVlY2g%3D

I would like to refer you to this scene from Star Trek TNG’s episode the drumhead. Your post cuts directly to the point of the episode. Evil is not always obvious, and often comes cloaked in seductive trappings. Removing the ability to show it in this manner neuters the entire point of many works, including dune and this Star Trek episode. Even such foundational things as Lucifer tempting Eve.

>>23145282
It was done by a guy named Matt Griffin

>>23143753
"paul is bad" is only slightly more insightful than "paul is good". despite being the most powerful man in existence with superhuman abilities, a messiah and demigod, he still has little agency over events that have been in motion for millenia

>>23141064
I have this one and I like it. It was originally my dads

>>23145336
For how regimented his existence has been for basically his entire life as a duke’s son, and then immediately getting thrown into a prophecy hundreds or thousands of years in the making, you might as well just say “Paul is a name” and leave it at that.

>>23144803
With the state of the world now, this seems more likely now than it seemed back then.

Just skimming through the notes, the entire story of Dune is about some sandworm/son of Paul hybrid becoming emperor for 3500 years and then some final machine-humanity war like in Mass Effect that ends with symbiosis and Paul being reborn to fuck his gf in the desert as a hobo?

>>23145282
No, it was published years before AI.

>>23141064

>>23141064
I have this one

>>23143814

Leto II was a volcel though... >>23143888
>is the good guy, always has been. He walks the Golden Path.

Paul explicitly does everything in his power to deviate from and deny the golden path, up to and including an attempt to kill Leto II himself.

This shit is literally just Tenchi Muyo

>>23146638
The Google Play edition of that just has the WattPad minimalist covers

bump 4 shai hulud

I had someone call Dune a white savior story and that the film telling you how to feel is better than 4 books exploring the concept of dictatorships and freedom

>>23147905
Paul doesn't even save anyone. He makes the Fremen into soft pansies.

>>23140725
>Crypto-pro-Palestine
>Crypto-pro-life
>Crypto-anti-boomer
>women BTFO
What did Denis mean by this?

>>23143753
>It's Starship Troopers all over again
Except this time the director actually read the book instead of just making shit up

>>23147905
Progressives love to overlay every geopolitical conflict with American racial politics. That's how they see the world.

>>23147969
Him and his son save humanity from extinction. That is canonically what the books are about, they're a spin on the ideas in Foundation. The idea that Paul or Leto II are using the Fremen for their own ends doesn't make sense, Messiah is filled with Paul lamenting his role and trying to avoid making sacrifices because he hates what he has to do, and Leto II doesn't benefit at all from his empire. He becomes a big worm monster that everyone hates. The books don't make any sense if it isn't recognized that the Atreides are experiencing a dilemma of being incredibly powerful and also powerless in the face of what they must do if they want to save humanity, which Paul and Leto II choose to do, but Paul is just more reluctant to do what needs to be done because its so horrible.

>>23148105
What was stopping either Paul or Leto II from sending out billions of people in generation ships all across the universe away from the Imperium and spice?

>>23148127
>Need spice to travel
>Hunter seekers grow advanced and can track humanity to extinction
>Other things can track humanity
This is why Leto II makes the special ships and modify the genes of humanity plus making it so the worms can live anywhere in space
>>23148105
Paul ultimately isn't willing to give up his humanity to do what is needed and could barely handle doing the jihad.

>>23148105
Another theme of the books is that the religion, government, and organizations are things used to control people and that the larger humanity becomes the easier it is to control them.
Humans think they are smart now by abandoning the control and safety of the church for the convenience of multi national organizations and the government, but don't realize they are still not free.

Dune managed to be the most self reflecting science fiction books while still having an all powerful clairvoyant worm god.

Questions:
1. I like Dune and I've read it a lot, but as it gets further away from scifi and more into esoteric mysticism towards the end it loses me. I've never read the sequels. Should I?

2. My copy's fallen apart. Other than cover preference what's the best/coolest printing?

>>23148437
Read the first 4 and stop as the golden path is done at the end of book 4 and all story threads have ended

>>23143963
Lol anon, the bugs attacked first. The Federation government also can't restrict its people's movement, so the original mormon colonists that caused the first attack weren't a government ploy to drum up support for a war. Buenos Aires wasn't an inside job. I am perplexed how people can clearly see that humanity is under attack by genocidal aliens that refuse to negotiate at every turn and mindlessly attack people, but somehow the multiracial Federation is fascist for defending itself.

>>23140850
he is jewish, if that's what you're asking

>>23148860
I think the takeaway from the book is how all outside forces, regardless of their existential threat, should not be used as an excuse to force you to become what you do not want to be. That what you are creates what threatens you, is a continual making, that then creates the you that makes what threatens you.
If the humans had not encroached with hubristic disregard to other species in the first place, then they would not have been attacked, creating the reasoning behind becoming fascist and further loosing their humanity.
That Heinlein, a General in the national guard, wrote it in 59 and it was rejected as too controversial should be a clue that it is not just some space romp about fighting bugs. It was about how anti-communism in the USA was actually fascism.

I thought Dune was about cool worms and politics and battles and stuff
Why tf is everyone saying it's about fascism or some other shit?
You idiots know Hitler wasn't a giant worm rught???

Is this guy right about the Dune sequels? It reminded me of pic rel chart I saw year ago here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jDqFEkNP64

>>23148860
> the bugs attacked first.
What if it was a false flag attack?

My sand
My worm
My sandworm

>>23143963
>The bugs are bad, too. They're literally framed as fascist drones. They are, however, not worse than than Federation
It's visually set up this way too. The subtext behind "to fight the bug we must understand the bug" is that they *become* the bugs. The humans swarm like the bugs. They have no individuality. The bug sucking out human brains is also paralleled at the end with the probe the scientist jams into the brain bug's mouth to "suck its brains out."

>>23146085
Hubba hubba!

>>23148105
>Him and his son save humanity from extinction. That is canonically what the books are about, they're a spin on the ideas in Foundation.
Yes. Or kind of a subversion of the Foundation trilogy. Herbert was deeply skeptical of Asimov's technological optimism. Asimov was a real Atomic Age guy, and Asimov's protagonists of prescient scientists become the antagonists in Herbert's world (the Bene Gesserit). Paul is an inversion of The Mule.

>>23148202
>Dune managed to be the most self reflecting science fiction books while still having an all powerful clairvoyant worm god.
What's also interesting about this is how Herbert seems to have ridden along with the later post-60s zeitgeist and counter-culture that was critical of technological society. The novel was published in 1965 and was extremely weird and had all ecological themes and people high on mind-altering substances. The Foundation novels were written in the 40s and published in the early 50s.

Herbert's politics were also peculiar, hard to pin down. I'd describe him almost like an American individualist anarchist from the Pacific Northwest, which is kind of a lost tradition but there were a lot of people in the 19th century like that. Had a lot of influence in America. Thoreau, Emerson, Josiah Warren, Voltairine de Cleyre. They're obscure now and they weren't communists but would've probably been really hostile to Ayn Rand big capitalism as well (as another form of centralized power).

>>23150113
The chart is accurate but I'm not going to watch that video

the end of dune messiah still the best thing i ever read in sci fi in my life

>>23150113
> Chapterhouse ends on a pretty big cliffhanger, and Frank Herbert died before he could finish the next book
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>23148437
>I like Dune and I've read it a lot, but as it gets further away from scifi and more into esoteric mysticism
Same thing.

>>23141064
The brazilian one is good.

Will that dude continue Paul's Women now?

>>23149701
>the real take away is that being anti-communist actually makes you a sub-human because... it just does OK???

Anyone else turn the heat up to 100, dump a huge pile of sand out on the floor, and sit in a puddle of your own waste for the authentic experiencing while reading?

>>23151186
>DUND

>>23151586
Brazil made DUNC real before Denis

I know the word scares white people, but it literally means ''struggle''

>>23151626
>I know the word scares white people
faggots and cuckservatives*

>>23144122
they dont call it a crusade they call it a holy war. its very clearly muslim coded tho so honestly callin git jihad would be too on the nose.

>>23141181

>>23151626
Can you complete this train of thought? You think the aversion to the term "jihad" in Dune 1/2 is because of White people scared of the term?

>>23150113
So Brian’s books suck?

>>23151626
>>23151956
It’s not because of whites. It’s because Jews hate everything Arab/Muslim, that’s why the de-Islamization of Dune happened.

>>23151626
While I like to make fun of people it's important to remember that every recent jihad is just terrorism.

>>23151998
Terrorism is a gay Anglo-Jewish word for “violence I don’t approve of”.

>>23151958
Mediocre at best, some would say.
I personally think his situation with the Dune book & world is of a similar sort to Christopher Tolkien's; however, Brian did not have a massive collection of unfinished texts from his father to draw upon (like Christopher did). Moreover, Brian is simply not as skilled in writing or editing.

>>23151958
Butlerian Jihad, Machine Crusade, and Battle of Corrin are potentially worth reading on their own, even though they're very different from the "actual" history of the Dune universe from Frank's notes. I'd sooner read them than Heretics and Chapterhouse. The rest are just filler, like the pic says there's no reason to read them unless you're simply obsessed with reading anything with Dune in the title.

>>23151966
YA garbage, don't let anyone tell you Brian Herbert books are worth reading.
>>23153202
This anon doesn't know what good is. Heretics and Chapterhouse are not great but they are better than anything Brian has put out. Don't listen to this guy.

>>23141064

Something I really like about the Dune books is the way they constantly expand on the sci-fi concepts they introduce.
Like they introduce the concept of a Ghola in the second book and then stretch it to its absolute limit in God Emporer and beyond.
Frank didn't just think of some cool sci-fi shit and use it as a plot device in his story, he thought about what impact the existence of that technology could have, how it could be abused and used. And of course he treats ideologies the same way throughout the series.

Just a fantastic series that definitely deserves the praise it gets.

>>23153427
Heretics and Chapterhouse are garbage that retroactively detract from the enjoyment of the series. The "prequel" trilogy is average YA, but far enough removed from Frank's work that it doesn't detract from it.

>>23153769
Heretics and chapterhouse story is bad but the prose is better than anything in the Brian books.

>>23153775
>This book has less bad prose than some YA drivel so you should read it
Makes no sense at all.

>This book is YA drivel, but it's in the same vein as this book you liked so you might consider reading it anyway.
This makes plenty of sense, one can choose to read it if one enjoys reading YA occasionally, or one can skip it if one is an annoying, pretentious asshat like yourself (or doesn't enjoy reading YA).

>>23143753
That's why they made Chani front and center, she sees Paul's bullshit and the audience can understand that Paul is le bad through her

>>23143753
Paul is only bad because he refused to get in the worm suit, not because of the jihad.

>>23140646
Not particularly, and at times refer to the jihad as the or a holy war.
It's relevent to who the fremen come from though.

>>23140646
Jihad is used all the time in the book

>>23142790
>Duke Leto actually cared about people and he fails to pass that on to Paul.
According to Duncan, he did pass it, Paul just never had the choice.
At the start of Dune's Children, Stilgard is looking at leto and is wondering if he'll have the same compassion as his father and grand-father(evidentently, the answer was no)

>>23143753
LISAN AL-GAIB

>>23141064
7>3=5>1=8>6>>4>>>2.

>>23153857
did they really do that in the movie?

>>23140725
You are also projecting politics in something that isn't that much about it.

>>23140725
t. marvel brain retard that can't analyze kino.

>>23140663
There's no mention of the bj, or of the spacing guild. Really streamlined the world down for the movie. Probably a smart choice but I wanted to see a navigator and get Paul's badass line "tell your navigators to look into the future and they will see me looking back at them"

Is the later book that bad?

I read messiah and Children of dune, and yeah they are a bit trippy, but if you get into the flow of prescience and all the dreamy / possession shit, it isn't so bad.

>>23141064
3

>>23143883
>I don’t think filmmakers understand the issue either.

>>23144101
Just wanted to come in and say based answer.

>>23155917
Kind of

>>23141064

>>23156268
Dune as a lot to do with politics.
>>23156360
The timing is funny.

>>23159030
has a lot*

>>23140698
The tattooed faces is a nafri thing, i think. Yeah I know it s not exclusive to nafris. There are some iron age european tribes that used to tattoo their entire bodies as well.
The aesthetic in the film seems like an amalgamation of mutiple cultures.

>>23144101
I have this one. Inherited it from my grandpa. Also my favorite by far.

>>23159016
>Bog Imperator
That cover goes insanely hard

>>23156712
God Emperor is considered on par with or better than Dune

>>23140646
>How relevant is the word “jihad” in the book?
It's the main plot point besides the spice in the first book.
The movie is utter dog shit, David Lynch's is more accurate to the book. For starters the Fremen are a distinct race in the books, and do have explicit connections to the Arabics/Islamics of today. Paul character is heavily downplayed in the movie, and is really blatant ESG character assassination move. Virtually every scene where he impresses the peers around him is removed, and instead he's constantly berated and implied to be an apologetic means to an end, rather than (possibly) the actual Messiah.

>>23141064
The Japanese covers are the patrician answer.

>>23159016
My mom would not have bought me anything with those covers when I was 10 y/o.

>>23159174
Those 2 are my favourite.

>>23140646
Nice pic OP

>>23159362
RIP Toriyama, the daily doses will never feel the same.

>>23156437
he doesn't say that to the navigators i think. He says something to the effect of "look where you dare not and you will find me staring back at you" to the reverend mother iirc

>>23148105
Man, I am amazed by the character of Leto II Atreides
>is the product of a multigenerational eugenics program to create the savior of humanity
>does a bunch of Spice Melange in the desert until he can see the future
>can see all possible outcomes for humanity
>all outcomes end in the destruction of the human race except one, which he calls the Golden Path
>turns self into a giant sandworm with a human face that can live for thousands of years
>declares himself God Emperor of the universe, using all his prescient knowledge of the future to save humanity over the course of 3,500 years
>creates an Empire whose ultimate purpose is destruction, in order to prevent the actual destruction of the human race
I'm in awe at this man, that is some high-level playing

>>23140646
It is mentioned at least 117 times in the six first canon books, but would maybe do the story a disservice in theatres without the proper context. Some people are already going hysterical because some of the cast isn't white and blonde.

>>23141064
I hate covers with people and faces from movies on them

>>23142758
>Jessica, and Paul as the villains
They try to paint them as warmongers but it falls completely flat. The only thing they achieved by doing this is making Chani look retarded and hypocritical.

>>23156437
This is why i will never abide any unfair criticism of the Lynch adaption. For all its foibles, it nailed the spacing guild and that entire subplot to a T. Pure kino.

>>23159579
I saw a female tiktoker talking about how the two biggest tragedies in the books are Irulan and Jessica.

Leto II gave up basically everything you ever could for insane amount of time and he’s not even noticed. Died to continue the plan, no tantrum, nothing.
Women are sick.

>>23145282
I want to gut you Alive

>>23151695
The Fremen were muslims, explicitly.

>>23143753
The Dune series gives the most nuanced take you're likely to ever find on the morality of leadership, and whether or not the privilege of information can truly justify seemingly horrific acts.

There's no easy answer to this, that's sort of the point. You have to take it on faith that Paul really CAN see the future and is acting benevolently, because there's no way to verify that he's telling the truth until after the fact.

>>23143888
>Anasurimbur Kellhus is also the good guy.

There are maybe five people on 4chan total who even know what that means, and fewer still who know that yes, he is.

>>23143860
Verhoeven is a retarded commie that didn't even read the book he was supposedly parodying.

Also, define fascism, without using communist half-truths.

>>23149701
>the bugs dindu nuffin!
See >>23161281 read the book and don't conflate it with the movie that unfortunately shares its name.

>>23161281
>>23161358
Verhoeven even says the bugs attacked and it wasn't a false flag.
Fuck the film even shows it happening and it clearly is the bugs

Should I keep reading the series? I enjoyed Dune until until it had that timeskip and the entire book came to a screeching halt in a few chapters. Wish that had been drawn out more. Doesn't matter if it meant it was a thousand pages long.

>>23162001
Yeah.
Messiah and Children of Dune are your "thousand page book".

Its all one Arch.

>>23159881
>I saw a female tiktoker talking about how the two biggest tragedies in the books are Irulan and Jessica.
christ.

>>23153719
Good Post.

>>23162010
I kinda wanted to have had the period between the timeskip explored more. And then the time between Dune and Messiah.

>>23162028
If you hate long timeskips you're definitely not going to like what happens after the third book

>>23162049
Not shit, I'm aware it jumps 3500 into the future with Sandworm Rick.

>>23144101
same. never heard of it but my mom recommended it to me since she liked it.

>>23156712
I read all the way through the 6. the last 2 definitely feel entirely different. they have basically entirely different characters. and while its sort of the culmination of the golden path bit it really isnt necessary. they could have just written it down as a small essay and skipped most of the people and details that werent really exciting.