/lit/ - Literature

With his music. That's where one stops, also.

>>23115370
The overtures, the full operas, then his prose works. Start with Lohengrin, Tanhauser, and then The Ring. If you're a big enough fan you'll listen to them all in full and if you're a superfan/true disciple of human art and culture you'll start reading the Prose Works.

Are operas generally /lit/-related, or do they go on /mu/? There's part of me that can't imagine /mu/ successfully discussing opera. That board is not very high IQ.

>>23115453
99% of operas aren't /lit/ related, Wagner is the exception.

>>23115422
Thanks kindly.

>>23115453
Mu is a pop culture board. It feels wrong to discuss classical music there

Meistersingers and you can give the rest a cursory listen because they're good but not as good

>>23115978
>I HEARD, once again for the first time, Richard Wagner's overture to the Mastersinger: it is a piece of magnificent, gorgeous, heavy, latter-day art, which has the pride to presuppose two centuries of music as still living, in order that it may be understood:—it is an honour to Germans that such a pride did not miscalculate! What flavours and forces, what seasons and climes do we not find mingled in it! It impresses us at one time as ancient, at another time as foreign, bitter, and too modern, it is as arbitrary as it is pompously traditional, it is not infrequently roguish, still oftener rough and coarse—it has fire and courage, and at the same time the loose, dun-coloured skin of fruits which ripen too late. It flows broad and full: and suddenly there is a moment of inexplicable hesitation, like a gap that opens between cause and effect, an oppression that makes us dream, almost a nightmare; but already it broadens and widens anew, the old stream of delight—the most manifold delight,—of old and new happiness; including ESPECIALLY the joy of the artist in himself, which he refuses to conceal, his astonished, happy cognizance of his mastery of the expedients here employed, the new, newly acquired, imperfectly tested expedients of art which he apparently betrays to us. All in all, however, no beauty, no South, nothing of the delicate southern clearness of the sky, nothing of grace, no dance, hardly a will to logic; a certain clumsiness even, which is also emphasized, as though the artist wished to say to us: "It is part of my intention"; a cumbersome drapery, something arbitrarily barbaric and ceremonious, a flirring of learned and venerable conceits and witticisms; something German in the best and worst sense of the word, something in the German style, manifold, formless, and inexhaustible; a certain German potency and super-plenitude of soul, which is not afraid to hide itself under the RAFFINEMENTS of decadence—which, perhaps, feels itself most at ease there; a real, genuine token of the German soul, which is at the same time young and aged, too ripe and yet still too rich in futurity. This kind of music expresses best what I think of the Germans: they belong to the day before yesterday and the day after tomorrow—THEY HAVE AS YET NO TODAY.

>>23115370
Anywhere you want, if you're smart enough to actually understand Wagner you're smart enough to pick him up any point and learn while watching

>>23116624
It's funny how Nietzsche talked about Wagnerites as "mob", when nowadays Nietzsche is the "mob" philosopher, the one philosopher that Jordan Peterson fans know something about. I imagine he wouldn't have been so judgmental of Wagnerites if he could have foreseen the stupidity of the Nietzscheans.

>>23116612
"Once again for the first time" describes it beautifully

>>23116624
This. Tristan and Parsifal has the greatest music of all time, but there maybe good reason not to start with them

>>23115570
Don Giovanni?

>>23115370
by reading Schopenhauer first

>>23115376
You dont like his thoughts on judaism followers?

>>23115453
if theatre is /lit/ then so is opera

>>23115376
This. You should start with his music and get an understanding then proceed to read The Ring of the Nibelung.

>>23117979
I would permit some of Mozart's libretti. Da Ponte is so full of charm, maybe it is just the music reflecting on the drama, but Mozart's operas seem to rise above most others in terms of their importance to literature. I don't know any other 18th century opera that inspired a response like Kierkegaard's.

>>23115370
Adorno's "In Search of Wagner".

>>23119874
>ANTISEMITISM REEEEEE
>GREEDY LOVELESS DWARFS AND TALENTLESS ACADEMICS AND ANTI-CHRISTIANS WHO USE SEX TO CONTROL PEOPLE ARE ANTISEMITIC CARICATURES
Really makes you think.

>>23119874
Literal schizophrenic rambling, but I think Adorno's love for Wagner comes out despite it all.