/lit/ - Literature

the people into this stuff are just people who never grew out of their donnie darko phase and buying witchcraft books at the scholastic book fair

>>23108338
fpbp. /thread

hylic cope itt

betcha can't even visualize an apple in ur head hahaha

People act like the Kybalion is some kind of esoteric magical occult spellbook when it's literally just a fucking self-help book using slightly more abstract language and allegories.

>>23108310
People hate this book but it seems pretty good as an intro. then they praise Manly P Hall

>>23108310
Yeah I had the same thoughts about that book when I read it. Looked Theosophy which turned out to be a scam too, especially Bavatsky. If you need to "hide" truths with vague ideas that are not clearly defined, or when you do define something back it up with "I saw it in a dream" you know it's s grifter trying to grift, with no actual truths or wisdom at all. Isn't that what cult leaders and salesmen do, make you feel special, like your let in on a secret that with magically fix all your problems. But you end up joining some whacky cult instead that ruined your life or just turns you into a retard that'll fall for anything.

>>23108310
The Kybalion is anything but cryptic.
If you couldn't understand it, you're probably retarded.

>>23108749
(donnie darko witchcraft books at the scholastic book fair ahh cracker)

>>23108310
keep coping. read all this shit and now can hypnotize whoever i want

>>23108763
(incel cracker who started reading this neckbeard ahh books to try to get laid)

>>23108755
>nigger
All is now clear. You've been taught to write your name, and now you think you're an intellectual.
But you still need to score crack today, so you'll be robbing a liquor store later..

>>23108818
(rizzless cracker)

>>23108476
It's worse than that. Some of them have no inner monologue.

>>23108310
>>23108338
>>23108531
You fuckers don't understand something very critical here, the essence of life and of the universe is magical. Most people are stuck in a filtered fish bowl of experience generated by their past, biases, genetics etc... (modern psychology can describe this scientifically) but to initiate change, to truly destroy the previous structures used to end the former fish bowl, an element outside the conscious mind must break a hole in the former fish bowl. Trickster, suffering, near death experiences or even just being sensitive and inclined to the spiritual or transcendental can do it. When a person reads material claimed to be supernatural or connected to an old tradition, the validity doesn't matter, the process it engages the reader in matters. It breaks a hole in their current zeitgeist or mental map. So that the rush of the true nature of experience can flood in and challenge them to create a new experience. Maybe one closer to the truth.

>>23108829
I like how you keep posting in parentheses because you know your opinion doesn't matter.
Go buy some bling, it might make you feel more adequate.

>>23108755
Why are white people called crackers when it's blacks who smoke all the crack?

>>23108878
>>23108842
>>23108476
Example A: These people have been sold something magical, thus they begin to believe they are superior to those without their 'esoteric' knowledge. Inherently, adherence to these grifter ideologies is really an admission of loneliness and a desire for attention. You are the type of people these swindlers would con for everything you're worth.
>>23108749
I disagree. Sure, the bold and confident axioms in explaining the universe were easy to read, but there was no real explanation, evidence, or depth behind any of the assertions. The entire ideology of hermeticism stems from some guy supposedly meeting The One in 'meditative state...'

You've been swindled. I see the same exact reaction from people such as Jehovas Witness whenever their ideology is questioned. Of course, you're not like them at all, your cult is more valid than theirs.

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them they've been fooled."

>>23108907
based and seethe incoming

>>23108907
>Sure, the bold and confident axioms in explaining the universe were easy to read, but there was no real explanation, evidence, or depth behind any of the assertions
I never said otherwise, and in fact I agree with you. I was merely pointing out that the book is not cryptic by any measure.

>>23108888
quads of truth

>>23108310
Filtered

Because it's complete bullshit.
The people I know into this "dude pierce the veil DMT neuron connections" bullshit are people that can afford drugs all the time and can afford multi-thousand dollar trips overseas to "shaman" retreats.
It's a LARP for trust fund babies

Atheism was all the rage a decade or more ago now that those pricks are cringy people want the opposite and think the answer is anti-science.
There is a lot of wisdom and knowledge in "esoteric books" but a lot of people are drawn to it because they want to feel special

>btfos your entire grift
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

>>23108310
Maybe stop reading shitty books and read something good, retard.

>>23108907
Shh. No one tell him mathematics was created by a cult.

>>23110099
>shh
>No one tell him mathematics was created by a cult.
retarded redditor
go back to whatever subreddit u came from, tard
>retard thinks pythagoras INVENTED MATH
OH NO NO NO

The crux of spiritualism is personal development
people who do well with it need not external proof as they can personally experience the results from it
people complaining about it are demanding an external entity to come in and tell them what is true and isn't (essentially a religious prophet, possibly materialist flavored)
there's never been a good refutation against the pursuit of spiritual development, a situation that can be ascribed similar to Pascals Wager but without the reliance on any religious dogma

>>23108310
>Do not throw pearls to swine
all the occultism you find is public though, and all of it is the accessible stuff, from Eastern ideas to Western ones. The occultists who didn't share their secrets will not have their works read. You have to remember these were all written during Christoid dominated times, and even now most people aren't interested in these topics in an honest way and deride them.

>>23108310
>information in these sorts of occultic books is purposefully cryptic and vague
Not true at all. That's like saying terms like atman in hinduist shit is cryptic and vague, because you're unfamiliar with it and lot of the terms are referencing each other in insular fashion. The gist of most of western occultism is philosophy and "folk knowledge" that's veiled with euphisms, which could be talked about in polite contexts without church fucking them in the ass for blasphemy.

OP is an agent of the demiurge and wants you to stay ASLEEP you’ve been warned

>>23108892
Because we crack the whips.

>>23108749
He's retarded, but so are you. You don't even have the excuse of being black.

The depth of thought found in "normal" philosophy easily mogs all the occultic and esoteric shit I've ever seen. All I've ever really found in the latter is reheated servings of something from the former, maybe with some woo-woo as window dressing.
Any time I ask the practitioners of this stuff if they've actually learned to do magic, or manifested their dream lives, or reached Krishna Consciousness, I responses that vary between "yes but disgusting hylics like you are unworthy of seeing such easily provable things" or "actually it's all a metaphor for some kind of internal self-development conveniently no different from a self help book" or "you're just a doubter."
Those who practice true philosophy, on the other hand, are almost always very willing to share their thinking and debate it with others and bring the results of their methods to light, simply out of a love of truth and a desire to know it and share it. They might expect others to be "initiated" in a way before tackling whatever strain of thought they're on (through understanding the general currents of philosophy and the big thinkers of their area of expertise), but they're not going to hide anything just because "laymen" might see it and fail to understand it.

>>23110887
whats an example of a normal philosophy to you

>>23108878
Damn anon really good point you made here about the “truth” of the book not necessarily mattering.

This is how I feel about religious myths. Whether or not they actually “happened” does nothing to alter the effect that the story has on its listener/reader. In a particular way, the “story” world is more real than the “real” world.

>>23108907
I fully believe that if the writers of these esoteric, occult books were actually serious, they wouldn't ask for money in the first place.

>>23110911
I used quotes around the word normal because the category I speak of includes the thought of people like Hegel which, while certainly not intentionally a work of esoterica or occultism, can seem that way to those without prerequisite knowledge (the meme about Hegel being an evil german autism wizard stems from this). Similar topics might be addressed in both occultism and philosophy, but the intent and manner of approach in the latter aren't the same as in the former.

>>23108907
>"It's easier to fool people than to convince them they've been fooled."
counterpoint: no u

Good thread

The Kybalion corporation would be the coolest corporation. I would hire you all.

>>23110117
>retarded redditor is dickriding pythagoras instead of some mumblerap crackhead smack fiend with pitbull facetattoos
Yay the neighborhood is saved!

>>23109218
>guys who funded this are pretending
>by scientifically proving the practice
What a fat seething little worm you are, bookworm. Step on the treadmill some time no more walks for you.

>>23108755
The Catholic church is just as guilty of these rather venial gift shop merchant sins.
Hey I'd like to see you debate club science boy anime fans be commercially successful but Goth scene girl table is killing it this quarter and Burrito Grandma Tamale Bake Sale Baby Mama is beating you and your rational agent campaign.

Magic ™ will save us

Embrace the sauce, gucci manes

>>23110099
Checked. Math and science all developed out of mysticism. Astrology came from astronomy, chemistry came from alchemy, etc., etc. Only brainlets fail to grasp this.

>>23110449
>there's never been a good refutation against the pursuit of spiritual development, a situation that can be ascribed similar to Pascals Wager but without the reliance on any religious dogma
He said on 4chan the Japanizing website that by virtue of being parsed by Japanese people then embues us with wonder that dissolves dogmatic delusions at a very personal level.

The laws of physics are poisoned by irony. Einstein and Weierstrauss attest

The final Yuga is TRUSTING LE SCIENCE

>enter thread
>see schizophrenic retard posting random shit
>leave thread

Light itself, consciousness itself refuses a straightforward stance

>>23111103
Thank you come spam again, JewGPT

>>23111087
You got modernity poisoned thinking spiritual development requires monkhood or asceticism. There's plenty of things to draw from and each person draws what they find useful. Remember, even those best at what they do could always be even better.

>>23111087
reminds me of that shadman piece with the nun and the muslim woman

>>23111097
the true faith they just can't shake

https://odysee.com/@Realfake_Newsource:9/RFNS-2.21-003-002:3

>>23111152
Im just saying that dogmatists always lose on 4chan thats my point. There is no social premise for anonymous people to dogmatize for. Much less Japanese adjacent cultures.

>>23108310

You got pleb filtered. Enjoy your crass nihilistic materialism.

>>23111215
>Enjoy your crass nihilistic materialism.
JojiPinkGuyDyingInside.mp3

Please just take the JQ redpill so we can all be sincere again

>>23108907
Not the same guy, but why did I get swindled? I think Kybalion has some interesting views about metaphysics written in a digestable prose, and that's it.
It's not like I got obsessed over it. You sound like a religious guy or who thinks anything else that talks about spirituality besides the "good book" is a blasphemy and should not be reading about it. Are you?

>>23111222
I passed the Jordan Quiz

>>23111304
ANSWER ME, YES OR NO, JORDAN!
IS THE BIBLE TRUE?

>>23111260
The Kybalion isn't Hermeticism, it was all made up by a new age grifter

>>23111316
Objection! The prosecution demands a single word answer for what my client called for a thorough dissection and investigation of the given evidence, your honor!
The Bible is 1066 pages of the New Testament and Old Testament to which my client is not an adherent of but has a commercial and kindred relation to for other intents and purposes. We now plead for a restraining order on Sir Chuddy McBiblington with a special side of lobster sauce! And he must financially recompsensate my client for financial losses with his defamation!

>>23111318
>it was all made up
everything is all made up

>>23111318
>isn't Hermeticism
Real platonism has never been tried

>>23111318
Recommend me a true Hermetic book then. Kybalion is pretty much a summary of Hermes Trismegistus teachings

I'm not surprised that 70-IQ /lit/ occultists love this book. As I said on /sci/, Atkinson was a fraud who used 1,000 pseudonyms, depending on subject matter, to boost credibility for his Chicago book mill. The one that amuses me most is Yogi Ramacharaka.

>>23111318
This, except I'd call him a New Thought grifter.
>>23111350
There is no "true" Hermetic book if by "true" you include something tangibly useful. The occultists on this board go into primal screams when they're accused of just being talkers, but that's all they are, fed by books like the Kybalion.

>>23108338
I bought alchemy books and still do.

>>23108310
Neville Goddard

>>23111052
>scientifically proving
OK post the study

>>23108763
What does this book say about hypnosis?

>>23112589
Aight then. Tell me a way to initiate myself into Hermetism. I believe that nowadays, it's impossible to hide esoteric knowledge from the internet, especially as a cult. Lots of books from freemasons and from other cults have been leaked online and some videos from their gay rituals as well.
The kybalion doesn't say anything different from what is known, and most of them like the phrase " as above, so below" are common sense. Too bad that these stuff have been highjacked by death cults and have been twisted as ominous symbols

>board sucks of Buddha and Jesus (religious figures known for supernatural acts)
>but if someone who didn't make a religion talks of magic that's le bad
explain
x
p
l
a
i
n

>>23113790
>sucks of
off

>>23108907
He's not ready to leave the cave. Tell him there's a world outside and he gets mad.

>>23111318
"Hermeticism" seems to actually be very vague and ultimately eclectic. It's honestly pretty hard to draw a line for the supposed grifters in the area, because when you get into it, you'll find out that Golden Dawn just pulled lot of stuff from their ass also. Tarot is probably the most obvious example. The supposed Egyptian parallels are likely bullshit, and they kinda just slapped the system on one version of the Kabbalah to form the hermetic Qabalah.

>>23113971
you're viewing initiation too much from the political-intrigue pulp fiction view, aka instead of
>its initiatory because few people want to understand it, fewer people succeed, and it requires commitment and transcending nominal views of living
you view it as
>the illuminati are hoarding old papers from thousands of years ago and only let their discord kittens read it
which is why the obsession with "legitimizing by oldness" shtick is utter BS, what makes magic work is entirely up to one's own great work, with the mentalist metaphysics (generalized ideas like concepts of alchemical transformation) having always been out in the open and present in most philosophies or religions in some way or another.

>>23113992
hylic tl;dr
magic is stands from Jojo, not Harry Potter shit.

>>23113992
I'm for undestanding what there is by tracing the sources. When you understand how things came to be, you're more aptly equipped to form your own judgement and more importantly, choosing the tools you prefer/resonate with.

>>23114040
But is that relevant in the discussion of the legitimacy of the result? For example, the average physicist is not helped in developing nuclear reactors by understanding the evolution of Greek Philosophy into science, yet he may write a work that triumphs everything the Greeks could've imagined. In regards to magic, the Great Work is something you as a person ought to be pursuing independent of system and essentially writing your own books, and of course you will learn and pull from many sources and let them influence you, but the Occult is not supposed to be "cultic" in the sense of dogma.

>>23114062
Better said, if you cared about higher truth's and magic and whatnot, you will have been instinctually been pursuing topics akin to the Great Work, and your focus would be on finding and perfecting what works for you as it is you who needs to complete it, not simply discover someone else's work.
This is also why it's silly that so many people come into these threads to complain about the legitimacy of the topic while having no desire for 'higher' things themselves. In essence, they are the reason these topics are esoteric and "obscure", as instead of pursuing 'higher' things by any means necessary (a theme in Crowley's work) they expect to be given motivation of some kind. Soft 'elitism' existed from Socrates to the Buddha, it's just that it never took off for the magician's.

>>23114062
I think it is. How do you distinguish "a grift" when sourcing? Is it even sensible to talk about it? I guess you advocate for feeling it out by actually practicing.

>>23114073
This is a fine answer for above. I can readily admit that I'm not a practicioner, at least not yet. Do you consider it a fools errand to gauge these topics in less hands on ways?

>>23114148
>. Do you consider it a fools errand to gauge these topics in less hands on ways?
I do, but not for lack of critical analysis, rather because the theory is itself the practice ("understanding division and non separatedness of things" being a more literal way to interpret it), since the crux (especially in western esotericism) is personal mysticism, and symbols (of higher things, for the sake of the superior self) reign supreme.
Consider that the most important lesson in this topic is what I will refer to as applied 'mentalism' over idealism, the very act of gauging is itself an application of said mentalist principle. And this isn't meant to be some rigid limitation, rather more of an opportunity in realizing just how much unexplored possibility there is for state, action and manifestation, with the most important application being a sort of "Perpetuum mobile" of the higher mind and it's growth.

>>23114425
to add something practical:
Think back to how transformative some specific, whether surreal or existential piece of art was for you, a movie, music or book. In my personal finding, the reluctance people feel (and I used to) over mentalism is simply because the individual has yet to "bridge the gap" between their understanding and the opportunity presented to them, so they feel uncomfortable experimenting in the right ways. "the present self should work with it's future self instead of against it" or such, in essence the bumps you may run into are the "inexperienced and disinterested yet domineering mind" improperly leading the "inexperienced interested mind" that is vulnerable due to having no teacher. Confusion can arise even on seemingly objective scales as things you might suppose as "undeniably true" involving the mind could be the mind not realizing what the mind can do (which is anything, using the body mind or spirit) by it's lack of awareness in the topic. Assume that if you don't have it that you need to build it, do not assume anything is impossible but also that anything that is possible is always the case, and experiment, it's your mind, you'll not go crazy.
A principle I can only refer to as "very new spontaneity of the psyche" matters, wherein skillfully influencing it and it's future in the known and unknown is what helps someone actually achieve these magical goals. Once you do that, you can write your own book that people will eventually rip on for being a grift.

As above so below

thats all you have to know really, but knowing is not just reading words or memorizing them

>>23114441
according to Socrates, if you understand something you can explain it to someone else, like the guy above you. So explain "As above so below"

Awakening is basically a free form crafting game
its eclectic by nature and you cant follow the same path someone else took because the path is unique to you.
You need to develop and follow your intuition and most importantly DO THE FUCKING WORK.
Awakening is not reading, its not thinking, it is a holistic path that we must traverse with all our senses and energies

>>23114453
>according to Socrates, if you understand something you can explain it to someone else
i disagree, the map is not the territory and
Knowing is a territory feature and we can only communicate using the map.
I can only point you in the right direction but you must walk there yourself

>>23114481
If not for dabbing on onlookers, you made your post to imply some kind of 'hint'. Then how do you explain the statement, from any perspective, formal or informal in regards to it's value, separate from the personal experience itself.

>>23108522
kek, this

>>23114492
as above, so below
it doesnt get any more clear than that
any word that i could add to it would just diminish the universality of the lesson

>>23108522
Manly hall is based

>>23114441
Micro- and macrocosm are indeed powerful and important concepts, but they're hardly "all you need to know".

>>23114645
what else would you suggest?

>>23114492
That which is above is like to that which is below, and that which is below is like to that which is above. As above, so below.

There are several meanings to this basic maxim.
1. Universe has a fractal nature because of allone
2. Experience is recursive because of allone
3. Dualism is in unexplainable harmony, structure

Some misdirections in the maxim include:
1. hierarchy is the only structure
2. heaven is upward

One trick to gain insight into ancient metaphysics or intuitions is to look at those first words:
>Quod est superius est sicut quod inferius, et quod inferius est sicut quod est superius
Of course, this is a Latin translation of Arabic text probably sourced in Greek which grifted it from the Phoenicians who preserved it from the Indians. One of the reasons why the map is pretty much irrelevant. If you start looking into those translators of ancient words, you will find they will write whole books on single words or phrases from the bygone eras. The books may themselves be in disagreement with yet other books on the same word.
I point you toward Osho on fuck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dPqdJ0S-Gk
A litany of terms captured under a short expressive phrase with many nuances.
The reconstruction of ancient language has many such illustrations, but which are true? And how do we determine such? By following the map through the territory and seeing where there is divergence.
There is an additional layer of strangeness to maps, as the most knowledgeable of them seem to direct us to discard them.

>>23114653
Start with the Kybalion.

>>23113677
>Tell me a way to initiate myself into Hermetism.
If you want more academic, accurate takes on Hermeticism, there's pretty much only the Brian Copenhaver book and Frances Yates' books. These won't allow you to "initiate" yourself into Hermetics -- that's a goal without any useful meaning. Some people believed some shit, and you can read what they believed and then paraphrase to others. That's the ultimate path of the occultist when you strip away all the window dressing and razzmatazz. Occultists are initiates into reading and repeating and being hostile to anyone who doesn't indulge their desire to feel special.

>>23115493
>t. not initiated

>>23115500
Case in point.

>>23115504
>t. not initiated but won't admit it because it delegitimizes his claims

>>23115523
Case in point continues.
Notice the hostility and desire to be acknowledged as special.

>>23115500
But we are initiated, aren't we Bruce? Members of the League of Shadows!

>>23115535
>t. still won't admit he's not initiated
notice the the lack of acknowledgment of the fact he's not initiated

>>23108310
>>23108338
I’ve never seen Donnie darko and read this stuff a lot.

>>23115545
Stomping continues.

>>23115550
Are you initiated?

>>23115493
>Copenhaver
What a name

>>23115523
>>23115545
are you retarded? did you not read a word he said? why are you asking someone who believes that initiation is meaningless whether he's initiated lmao.

>>23112577
STEMfags should stay out of discussions of the occult. Atkinson wasn’t wrong about everything, considering the amount of pessimism attracts flies on shit here. You reap what you sow, doomer.

>>23115554
Stomping continues.

>>23115566
Please don't hand-hold them. It's better that onlookers with an IQ over 100 see for themselves how mentally crippled the wannabe wizards are.

>>23115493
>there's pretty much only the Brian Copenhaver book and Frances Yates' books.
this. the yates book on rosicrucianism (along with her bruno hermetics one) has value for hermetics too.

>>23115568
>STEMfags should stay out of discussions of the occult
Shut the fuck up, retard.

>>23115566
>>23115573
Because if he's not that means he doesn't know what he's talking about. I just want him to feel his ineptitude. Which he has obviously recognized but can't admit for the obvious reason that doing so would be admitting publicly his ineptitude. Hence, his repeated denials of reality with the telling phrase "stomping continues". No, the stomping is over. Now I'm just rubbing it in for my amusement.

>>23115535
if you base your assessment of occultists on the larping hylics on /lit/ and /x/ who can't help foaming at the mouth (like that guy), of course you'll have a low assessment of occultists. even the reddit occult sub has more intelligent, humble people. or if you don't like reddit, check out some of the dedicated occult forums. very little of the obvious mental illness shown on 4chan.

>>23115595
you're just proving his point while claiming victory lmao. actually, I notice you write similarly. is this some false flag to make occult students look retarded?

>>23115595
Stomping continues.
Notice the desire to feel special and the seethe when it's denied like candy.

>>23115615
Heh, it is very convenient that immediately after he posted >>23115493, along comes a parody of higher development, but I dunno, there are a lot of them on here.

>>23115615
>while claiming victory
Let's say there's a book. And you've never read said book. And you go around telling everyone everything in the book is bullshit. And then when someone asks you, "Hey Anon you read the book?" and you respond with, "IT'S BULLSHIT OK!". And then you get asked again, "ok...but did you read the book tho?", you just keep responding with "STOMPING CONTINUES".

Now ask yourself little smart anon, who is falsely claiming victory here?

>>23115653
>if someone doesn't share my opinion of a book, he hasn't read it or didn't understand it
getting desperate now

>>23115653
>unicorns are bullshit
>you: if you haven't become a unicorn, you don't know what you're talking about. have you become a unicorn? huh, have ya? have ya?
kys

>>23115674
LMAO, that's exactly what he sounds like to well-adjusted people.

>>23115663
>t. missed the analogy
*woosh* the was the interpretation of the book. The issue was that you have to actually read it to have a legitimate interpretation of it. And the same goes with any tradition that requires initiation. But nice try big brain.

>>23115674
shit analogy.

>>23115653
Stomping continues.
Candy denied.

>>23115713
If it makes you feel like a big boy now sure suit yourself

>>23115707
you may distinguish between a unicorn and le magical initiation on a le planes, but not everyone is going to cede you that distinction to make your argument more convenient. in fact, if they did cede that, there'd be zero reason for them to suggest that initiation is bullshit in the first place. you're trying to force people to accept your question-begging.

>>23115500
The Traditionalists are based in their insight into how dead true initiations are in modernity and how traditions are all dead except some parts of Christianity (for westerners). Everything else is fake and gay LARPs.

>>23115740
>not everyone is going to cede you that distinction to make your argument more convenient.
that's why I gave the book analogy, because it obviously gets the message across. You have to actually examine something to give a legitimate report of it. Everyone knows you can't pass a value judgment on a book you've never read.
That's the definition of a pseud. And you also can't pass value judgments on a body of knowledge that you need keys (which you do not have) to access. You faggots are literally seething there's a club and you're not in it. Please seethe more. It's funny.

>>23115747
This. The other poster is skeptical, but it's obvious he was open-minded enough to give some lit a chance. In my experience, posters like that are far easier to grow with as acquaintances than people who think they've figured it all out. Evola himself said that the initiatory tradition is effectively dead.

>>23115801
>Evola
lmao

>>23115798
ok, just as long as you know that many people won't distinguish you from someone who's whining that a critic of unicorns hasn't tried being a unicorn

>>23114453
In your own bosom you bear your heaven and earth,
And all you behold, though it appears without,
It is within, in your imagination,
Of which this world of mortality is but a shadow.

>>23115798
No candy.

>>23115827
please seethe more. It's more enjoyable than candy.

>>23115504
I appreciate your sobriety and rational rigour. Ignore that anon that keeps babbling about "initiation", he's a a bit of a fool.

You were right in identifying that subset of Seekers which are fake-awaken, the ones who dip their toes into this stuff without an inquiring, honest and strong soul, and just use it as an accesory for their identity. But they are just a minority, they are not representative.

And there's another aspect: what might seem to you as obscurantist schizo babble are just attempts of humans to describe a very complicated, weird and entangled web of various phenomena which come from the same nature. A bundle of limited, disparate Maps written at disparate places and periods by puny humans that try to describe one vast and weird Territory, if that makes sense.

This anon has partially nailed some aspects: >>23113992

I can't elaborate on why magick is apparently ineffable, but I'm just going to say this: there is a mental state you must reach in order to be able to start understanding, and various people throughout history have grasped some limited parts of it.

Also, your central nervous system is a separate entity from you, which is also you but not really.

I won't respond to any further replies, but I'm going to give you some breadcrumbs; including some "testimonials" of this mental state from people who did not chase it actively:
Start with the wiki pages of William James, Georg Groddeck, Alfred North Whitehead, Spinoza, Leibniz, and Evola. Then start practicing meditation and start reading Tibetan Buddhist texts.

Good luck

>>23115933
>magick is apparently ineffable
>apparently

>there is mystery in the mystical, only however for the understanding which is ruled by the principle of abstract identity; whereas the mystical, as synonymous with the speculative, is the concrete unity of those propositions which understanding only accepts in their separation and opposition. And if those who recognise Mysticism as the highest truth are content to leave it in its original utter mystery, their conduct only proves that for them too, as well as for their antagonists, thinking means abstract identification, and that in their opinion, therefore truth can only be won by renouncing thought, or as it is frequently expressed, by leading the reason captive.

>>23108531
>Theosophy which turned out to be a scam too, especially Bavatsky
Take it back right NOW. Blavatsky is a super smart qt.

>>23108907
>Jehovas Witness
But we have the Truth tho? I don't get it?

>>23110946
>Hegel which, while certainly not intentionally a work of esoterica or occultism, can seem that way to those without prerequisite knowledge (the meme about Hegel being an evil german autism wizard stems from this).
He was an esoteric wizard tho

>>23114062
>the average physicist is not helped in developing nuclear reactors by understanding the evolution of Greek Philosophy into science
>t. doesn't know

>>23115493
>Some people believed some shit, and you can read what they believed and then paraphrase to others.
But isn't how things work? I mean, there is a natural need for a person to share "his own truth"(that person being right or wrong is irrelevant) with the world if one deems it's something profound.
Prophets used to do that, and I believe the most correct man with his most correct theory about this reality, must have tried to convey this to the world in some way. A truth or a teaching has no value if it stays within a person or within a small cycle of people, especially if that said truth has actual fragments of universal truth. Let people at least hear this positive truth, and let people decide if its worthy or not.
According to the "a hero with a thousand faces" book, fragments of human nature's ultimate truth can be found within the ideological similarities shared by mythologies and stories from every age and place, and I so believe that the Hermetic or esoteric or whatever truth can be found in the same fashion. In the end of the day, it is you who shapes your own reality, so its up to you to figure things out and come up with your own truth. But if you try to come up with something new and thought-provoking, at least try to be a little bit original about it.
>there's pretty much only the Brian Copenhaver book
I'll check that book. Thanks.

>>23116049
No he wasn't. Magee did some shitty-ass scholarship in his book, and even besides his argument you would know that Hegel is a lot more down to earth than memes make him out to be if you'd read him.

>>23116283
>Hegel is a lot more down to earth
no he is not

>man has a duty to rise to that abstract universality of mood in which he is indeed indifferent to the existence or non-existence of the hundred dollars, whatever may be their quantitative relation to his fortune, just as it ought to be a matter of indifference to him whether he is or is not, that is, in finite life (for a state, a determinate being is meant), and so on — si fractus illabatur orbis, impavidum ferient ruinae was said by a Roman, and still more ought the Christian to possess this indifference.
-Science of Logic section 145

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

FUNNY THREAD YOU GUYZ FUNNY

>>23116346
sir, this is a Wendy's

>>23116351
I would like one Dave's Double Patty all the way with fries and a coke. Make it snappy.

>>23116363
coke machine broke
also we're out of tomato
also we closed 5 minutes ago

>>23116253
>I believe the most correct man with his most correct theory about this reality, must have tried to convey this to the world in some way.
He did and they called him a quack.

>>23116383
Who?

>>23116383
Hold up Hold up Hold up. This is the guy. THIS is the guy. This is the guy they told me about. THEY told me about him. THEY said he would be here now at this hour at this time at this place HIM he would be here and he is. That is a fact and it is a fact and I acknowledge it as a fact because I see that is tis true and it is there and it is factual. I know it now to be true and it is. I am pleasantly surprised as I did not expect this prediction to occur precisely when it was predicted to occur precisely at the time and the place it was predicted to occur and I am now pleasantly surprised by this rather pleasant surprise. I know who he is and I know what he wrote and I know the significance and I've read the quote. His name is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zef_Maria_Hoene-Wro%C5%84ski

>>23108878
I agree. And to add, the cryptic style is a big part of it too. It changes the way you think about the subject. The struggle to "get it" is kind of the point. After a while your thinking switches more often to analog mode and you see the value of subjectivity and the irrational because it produces real results for you.