/lit/ - Literature

I've read a good few writing books, and watched a number of videos, and while a good chunk of the advice they often give is valid, I feel like it's rarely helpful. Usually it ends up being shit like "MAKE SURE YOUR CHARACTERS HAVE AGENCY AND GOALS" or "SHOW DON'T TELL" something like that. But I often find a lot of these books and videos to self aggrandizing where the author spends a lot of time plugging their own material and how clever they felt they were when they had their character in book X do action why for reason Z and that gets old fast. Leading with examples is helpful sure but still. Shut up.

Now I say this because what I never manage to find, is someone explaining how to write a story. Like actually fucking write the damn thing. How do I sort my chapters? Are they all separate files or one big file? How do I type it all out? Is their an agreed upon best font? Is there a format to follow? Like nobody ever talks about the physical act of actually being in front of your type writer, word process, pc, spiral notebook or whatever and explains how to actually do the damn book? Where do I even send this shit when I'm done writing it so I don't get screwed?
I know it's going to be different for everyone and figuring out your style is something that you learn with practice but you need to start somewhere and I have no idea what any of this is supposed to look like when I'm actually assembling it.

What does a story look like when it's being assembled?

>>23113621
I want to write literature, but shit's hard. I wrote a novel and went to edit it and realized it was beyond me.

So I wrote something genre-fictiony to practise. Now I have a decent book that is not literary, more like something YA would like. What the hell do I do with the thing? If I show people, will I be able to write literature?

>>23113621
Short stories are hard.

>>23113633
No shit. Writing guides are just thinly veiled promotional materials where the author brags about his "credentials" and why the shit he has written is objectively superior to others. Only a full retard would fall for that crap and unfortunately, there are many of that sort

>>23113715
It's annoying too when they try to pass along certain advice like an absolute that doesn't even work well in other types of stories, genre fiction especially.

Gorgeous balanced form in this sentence by Heinlein. Why aren't you imitating this sentence to try to become better?

>>23113694
I find short stories to be easy. I can come up with a theme, then a setting, plot, and characters to explore that theme, and wrap it up quickly. I find the opposite difficult...I have little ability to expound for the 60k words or so it takes to qualify as a novel. I can say what I want to say in a short story...how do I expand that without being boring and cliche?

>>23113986
I do too. The issue people have is that they have to resist not overdoing it. It takes a different level of focus compared to the way novels can tolerate complexity.

>>23113633
Why are you worrying about font size and files when a hundred years ago people were writing novels on paper? There are no hard rules, you have to write and find out what works best for you.
>is there a format to follow
>how to actually do the damn book?
Format to follow? Jesus dude just write a lot and date/label everything you write so you can find it later. You're overthinking this.

>>23113633
>How do I sort my chapters?
From beginning to end. Usually this is done with an outline or storyboard. If you can't finish the outline or storyboard, your story needs more time in the pressure cooker.

>Separate files?
Doesn't matter. Whatever works for you. I keep all my stuff on one doc, with backups.

>How do I type it all out?
With a keyboard. You can get one from Walmart for like 20$

>Best font?
I like arial, but do whatever you like.

>If there a format to follow?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Replace 'format' with 'trope'. Do you want a trope in your story? Do you want to emulate a story type like 'the hero's adventure'? It is up to you.

>How do you do the damn book?
Persistence and dedication. When I was first starting, I treated it like the gym. At least one hour every day, or a certain number of words per day. It is now the part of my day I look forward to the most.

>Where do I send this shit to not get screwed?
If you're talking fanfics, AO3. If you're talking original shit, no idea. Overall, don't worry about it. If you're having trouble with these basics, your writing will not be good enough for anyone to want to steal it. That, and story ideas are like regular ideas: a dime a dozen. Any dullard can come up with a cool story idea and throw it on paper, it takes a writer to be able to bring it to life. A good story is always its execution, not the idea (though a good story idea helps greatly).

>What does a story look like when it is being assembled?
Absolute schizophrenia. Generally, once my story outline is done, I write whatever part I fancy writing at any particular moment. This leads to a lot of random chapters being partially done, and a lot of random chapters with nothing in them. This is just me, though. Different people do it differently. It all eventually fills out in the end.

Overall? Just throw yourself into the deep end. You will never know what works for you if you don't write anything. A good story written now is better than the perfect story written never.

How can book read

>get an idea for an interesting scifi setting
>a story incorporating themes of parenthood, duty, and preserving humanity in trying times
>comforting episodes of daily life and drama between scenes of intense futuristic action
>write a satisfactory opening chapter, precisely as I wanted to
>the plot is about an adopted daughter seducing her mother

I'm just physically incapable of writing anything that wouldn't make normalfags recoil in disgust, huh

How feasible is it just to write a novel exploring family dynamics? Are there examples of books that simply bring you through an understanding of various familial characters and their relationships without incorporating a more intensive plot element (i.e., murder, war, etc.) What has to happen in order to pull this off?

>>23114397
I thought immediately of "Mrs. Bridge", even though, throughout all the family dynamics, there's a background of social change, and the individual family members' different reactions to it.

>>23114384
What I do is make my story palatable and then write the degenerate stuff in it separately as fanfiction of my own story

i need to interact with normies to amass writing material, what's a job that would let me interact with a lot of normies?

>>23114796
Waiter, bartender, or barista are ideal for this. You hear and see a lot of crazy shit

Now that F Gardner has outed himself as a Hitler worshipping Holocaust denier has it changed your opinion of the F man? Also why the heck is he doing this exactly?

https://rumble.com/v4bdo8b-kabbalah-of-the-crocodile-author-f.-gardner.html

>>23114898
No one cares, Frank

>>23113637
Please help, I don't want to be bound to YA fic and also don't want to burn a nice story

>>23114964
People can smell the pleb from afar. I'm sorry, you soiled yourself writing YA, it's over.

>>23114964
Here is my advice to you:
>learn more about prose, use good prose and avoid cliched prose
>learn how to drive your story with complex characters instead of genre tropes
>develop your style to suit the purposes of the story
>choose a mighty theme and do not give clear answers to every question

So what are you writing?

>>23115045
Thank you Anon.

I wrote a hero's journey to nail down the basics of dialogue, pacing, plot etc. It's fun. But I want to return to the lumbering beast of a novel I first wrote, which is a character driven sci-fi best comparable to The Death of Ivan Ilyich

>>23115083
If you already have lots of scifi in it that you want, you can just polish it to be like upmarket scifi. Something like that. If the story is literary enough, people will treat it like literature anyways.

rate my short story idea pls.
>Skitzo protag obssesed with conspiracies finds out that for the past few decades a troubling amount of esteemed scholars would go missing. With the entire event getting memoryholed not long after.
>Turns out it's been picking up in intensity in the past few years, to the point that even some mainstream outlets report on it.
>Protag decides to follow through for once in his life and attempts to meet up with the family of a poofed scientist closest to him.
>He is immediately turned down upon arrival because he looks and sounds like a crazy crackhead.(This will be heavily hinted upon throughout but never outright stated by the protagonist-narrator himself.)
>He'll scream one last thing before getting hauled off by officers of the law
>This last thing will alert the daughter of the missing scientist that he isn't full-on crazy and that he actually does know something.
>She followed through in her father's footsteps and came to be significantly intelligent.
>Scientist's daughter and Schizo-protag decide to work together to figure out whatever the hell is going on
>With his obssesive pattern-seeking and her actual intellect combined they further pursue all potential leads
>Don't have the middle part figured out yet but essentially it'll hint at the big reveal(see below)

>The reveal is that shortly after the SETI signal has been sent, humanity received information back
>The information contained a digital equivalent of the golden disk with mathematical constants to prove it was sent out by an intelligent species, as well as a self-decrypting algorithm(will have to do research to see if that's a thing but you get what i'm getting at)
>Additionally a list of "Great Filters" has been sent through
>Essentailly its a list of technologies and concepts that supposedly guarantee a civilizational doom by their sole existence
>All the scientists captured were the ones who contributed a theoretical background for Great Filter tech, or worked on something that could end up becoming a Great Filter in itself.
>All of this kidnapping and tech-stopping was facilitated by an SCP-esque supranational organization who's sole goal is to preserve the existence of human species by capping tech that's too out there.
>Daughter would be compelled by the organization's arguments and content with staying silent.
>Skitzo protag spergs out and assumes that no Great Filter exist
>Instead the aliens just decided to neuter the human civ tech-wise in order to make a future war of thousands of years in the future easier for them
>He goes into hiding
>Last scene is several of the organization's members discussing the actual likelyhood of one of their contained techs becoming a Great Filter
>It's technically possible but not that great
>The discussion eventually gets snuffed out by the organization's dogma
>The end

Just a rough idea which is why the middle basically doesn't really exist in my head yet.

>>23115095
What's the point in living if not to aim for greatness? I can write more practice novels if I have to

>>23115119
I like it Anon, I can see it being a compelling mystery and the twist is solid.

Not sure on the ending, we don't get a big climactic event and we don't get answers, but that might be what you're going for.

Also, as a schizo, special request that you do some research on what we're like. I'm tired of seeing media that just lumps us in with psychopaths and serial killers.

>Average high end writer makes $25,000 annual
>Probably lower in other countries
I'll see you bros at the local garbage fire, I'll be the one with the fingerless gloves and typewriter

>>23115309
who cares about money?
and if you do, then use the cheat code of litrpg. 25k easy to get

How do you guys structure your sentences so that they don't all have the same structure and feel the same. For example, a lot my sentences go like:

"She tightly clasped my hand into hers, her palms moist and sweaty from trepidation."

"The lamp cast a faint, yellowish glow, onto the wall, giving the room a less constricting and oppressive atmosphere."

"And so we ran and ran, trying not to slip or fall into deep puddles."

I really love attaching those descriptive bits to the ends of my sentences for some reason.

>>23115327
I hadn't heard of this. Basically isekai in literary form? That's horrific.

>>23115288
>Also, as a schizo, special request that you do some research on what we're like. I'm tired of seeing media that just lumps us in with psychopaths and serial killers.
Didn't mean a literal schizophrenic. Just a guy vaguely on the verge of insanity and ridden with paranoia.
The ending isn't meant to be a definitive statment but moreso just show that while protag's fears aren't definite, the big authority doesn't even think to consider them and sticks to the dogma instead.

>>23115341
Who hasn't uncovered a sprawling conspiracy in the fabric of reality, though?

>>23115337
You need to work on the paragraph level to notice the flow more. The more you edit, the more obvious it becomes what you are doing.

>>23115275
You're not going to reach greatness with fucking scifi lmao

Can I shill this book to you guys? It's pretty great, it offered me a bunch of perspectives I hadn't considered before on what makes for a good story, and a lot of practical hints about the process of developing and starting your story

Okay anons, fine. I'm going to write a litrpg and make an ass load of money from it. My webnovelist kingpin arc begins now!

>>23113621
Any tips for keeping up the creative juices flowing when I have two jobs and a rapidly shrinking pool of free time and energy? Normal I write every day, bouncing between projects, but lately it's felt like trying to squeeze toothpaste from an empty tube.

>>23115667
Is it not possible to reduce your obligations? Because 2 jobs + other responsibilities sounds like it'd be pretty hard to get much done, especially a meaningful effort

>>23115402
Asimov, Heinlein, and PKD all mog your arrogant attitude

>>23114898
literally no one cares
the F stands for faggot...cuz i'm thinking it does

>>23115402
If Ishiguro can win a nobel prize, I think I can manage great sci-fi

>>23113621
Something about the prose for my Lolcat fantasy/mythology anthology isn't working. I've been trying to give it a tone similar to The Bible or The Silmarillion but I now realize that I can't do that after a god says "I should make the Earths and stuffs!"
>>23115651
>>23115327
Do litrpgs actually sell that well?

>>23115762
By quantity? No, not at all, it's still considered a small niche that even many fantasy readers don't know about.

By quality + effort? It's gotta be one of the lowest-skill ways to make money with long-form creative writing (i.e., it's a cheat code). Up there with erotica and to a lesser extent romance.

>>23115309
That's why you only write part time unless you make it big

>>23115914
That's the common wisdom, but I've heard a number of novelists suggest that quitting your job is important to making it as a writer. But every time they acknowledge how big a risk it is. The risk is what helps push you to succeed, I suppose. I'm not quitting my job, for the record.

Why don't you write something highly marketable as a means of creating a 'day job' in writing, then write whatever you truly want with all the spare time that would get you? Because then even your day job is peripherally improving your writing abilities via tons of practice. And if you have any chance of making it in a less-marketable field like litfic or whatever else you want, you ought to be able to write something formulaic and easy too, no?

>>23115965
There are better ways to get financially independent than writing books you don't want to write.

>>23115972
That also hone your craft? That was my point. Even writing in faddish genres will certainly improve your ability to make likable characters, play with prose, establish scenes, etc.

>>23115981
>>23115972
And if you can't make it in easy genres, then there's no shot you can write something 'good', right? Because that would be way harder. Feel like you didn't even read my post

>>23115984
>tfw no-one will read my magnum opus because i put out twenty erotic novels and everyone thinks i can't write literature

>>23115981
>>23115984
The skills needed to write good genre fiction and good literary fiction are not the same. It's not worth wasting your time. You can't even argue that you would be building an audience, because you would be planning to have a different target audience in the long run.

>>23115988
This is such a silly reply I can only assume it's in bad faith

>>23115994
You really don't think writing good genre fiction has ANY transferable skills? That developing plots, characters, prose, and even writing habits won't transfer at some ratio?
I guess we have fundamentally different views on what writing is, because that seems absurd to me.

>>23116007
If I lose my job I will unironically try writing erotica. But I do worry it'll taint my 'career'.

>>23116032
Do you mean taint your writing style? Because obviously you just use a pen name, if you meant reputation. That's why I said the response was in bad faith.

>>23115965
Because the highly formulaic writing can be replaced by ChatGPT...and is.

>>23116048
Okay, so this entire thread is retarded, or something?

>>23115988
>>23116032
Use a pseudonym, dummy.

>>23116043
>>23116063
Is that really safe? Won't it come out somehow if I'm posting erotica on my Amazon account?

It's okay /wg/, writers shouldn't know what pseudonyms are! You aren't totally embarrassing yourselves again!

>>23116075
JK Rowling wrote under a pseudonym for a while and only got exposed because of her agent's fuck up. And she's one of the most popular authors in the world (with both the most fans AND haters)

So, there's only the SMALLEST chance if you're 1.) enormously popular, aka already made it, in which case it doesn't really matter, does it? and 2.) someone fucks up, and if you're self pubbing, that's entirely on you--so just don't fuck up.

But really 1.) is what matters. Nobody gives a shit until you're somebody--as in, a massive somebody, selling assloads of books

>>23116051
Only for the people who aspirations are no higher than formulaic slop.

Besides unless you're writing some truly degenerate shit, I feel like mild erotica won't soil anyone's career, if anything you could spin it as being an 'upstart author trying to make ends meet'. Hardly a career killer even in the worst case scenario. If anything the publicity would be good for you ... and it all depends on people giving a shit, which means you already made it

>>23116075
Only if someone inside Amazon busts you, and then you'd be able to sue Amazon for bazillions. KDP literally has an option to create pseudonyms.

>>23116104
Yeah I'd be writing some seriously degen shit. Have you seen what women are into? Werewolves and shit.

>>23116090
You think ANY (much less all) genre fiction is written by chatgpt?

I really fucking hate this "writers thread", every time I come in here I read genuinely the dumbest shit on /lit/, and that's saying something

>>23116075
Lawrence Block started his career writing soft-core porn. He grew past that, and now he's a Grand Master with the Mystery Writers of America.

If you're going into books of all things to make cash you're retarded.
Same goes for p much any other art form.
Even if you get masterclass literally better than picasso at oil paining you're still gonna toil for less than minwage lol.

>>23116111
Yeah but you could also just write normal marketable stuff. Is this even a real discussion or am I being trolled? Is this F Gardner I'm speaking to?

>>23116112
I said it could be, not that it has been already. And if you hate this thread, why are you here? Are you Frank?
>>23116111
Your stuff may be tame by the standards of what's already out there.

>>23116116
For fuck's sake, this discussion stems from the premise "if you write genre fiction you can also hone your craft in peripheral ways, so at least you aren't working 8 hours a day toward something that doesn't make you a better writer"

It's not a discussion on "is writing the easiest way to get money?????"

I really fucking hate you guys

>>23116121
>>23116123
it's easy to spot Frank when you know what to look for, isn't it. pointless crabbing, mean-spirited demotivation, and a total lack of self-awareness

>>23116123
>if you hate this thread, why are you here?
Good question, I keep expecting responses from people who aren't subhuman and have even 1% reading comprehension, my bad I guess

>>23116121
But what if I have a head start on writing degen shit? What if that's what I like writing?

>>23116123
If bestiality can be a best seller I have nothing to worry about. I'm not that much of a freak

>>23116129
You think I'm frank?
How am I demotivating people?
How am I crabbing?
Nah, I can't do it, have fun /wg/, hopefully this retarded interaction keeps me from coming back for another few months, I don't know why the 'writers thread' is the worst on the board

>>23116141
Oh please, God, let it be forever.

>>23116181
You honestly think I'm Frank? lmao
I will do my best to make it forever. I'm disappointed every time I come here. How can any of you read the exchanges above and not see how embarrassing they are? Jesus

>>23116206
Frank is, at present, shitting up another thread with his shill-spamming and same-fagging, so based on his past behavior, it makes sense he's doing it here too. And believe us, we wish you weren't Frank either.

>>23116212
Because Frank often starts discussion chains about the merits of finding temporary work in genre fiction before moving onto more respected fields of writing.
Fuck, you people are so stupid, this is my last post, GOODBYE

>>23116223
Bye Frank

I'm almost done with my first novel. I've been working on it or the past 5 years or so. After multiple personal setbacks and top to bottom rewrites, I'm 64,019 words into my second to last draft. I also included a Baneposting reference

Man, F Gardner really has this board by the nuts, doesn't he? People can't stop talking about him

>>23116249
You're the only one that talks about you, Frank. You're like a raving homeless guy on the street that everyone has to avoid. And didn't you say you were leaving?

>>23116247
Good job Anon. Reference is subtle enough that normies won't get it.

>>23116249
Gardner’s outspoken against Jews so it’s easy to guess the type of person who seethes at him.

>>23116297
This explains so much.

>>23115486
I remember reading this multiple times and being really convinced that it was the "key", the "secret", etc. (so much so that I even turned a blind eye to the awful, awful writing that fill its pages). Eventually, I came to realize that my favorite books, and the best parts of those books, don't follow its advice at all. There was nothing in the book that describes why I like reading in the first place. One thing that the book does get right though is the idea of fiction as a simulation, but I think that's more about wish fulfillment and emotional transfer.

>>23115945
Say what you will about Sandersonion, but his advice for finding a job that’ll give you time to write like a night-shift Hotel Desk person or security guard seems pretty sound.

I just came to the realization that Frank is this general’s version of ‘da joooos’. What the fuck did he do? Why does it seem like Frank had dragged Boswell poster into crabdom?

to the anon who gave advice on my dildo having hero, maybe it sounds interesting to turn the soft phallic ctonic sexual powers into a sword of art, or a literal sword to open not his own ass but protects the innocent, helping the dickless and so on

>>23116773
Oh...this gave me flashbacks to sword fucking smut...

I started a novel in early January after a conversation with a friend and a dream, I'm now 30k words in and probs will be done by Summer, so more a novella. It's kinda nice. My first book was 330kish words so just hammering out a couple of small books in between large projects feels good. It's a freeing kinda feeling.

They say one of the best keys to success as an indie author is having a large library and making a little bit from each book, and each book advertises the others. Adding a couple of smaller books that aren't gigantic reading commitments might be good, but I'm also not deluded into thinking my books will ever take over entirely paying my bills.

>>23116760
You’re right. Also extremely ironic considering F Gardner’s staunch antisemitism.

>>23116848
Gardner updates are always the most interesting parts of /wg./ What’s the latest? I already saw his kino meltdown about the jews.

>>23113633
Probably one of the worst things you can do is watch BookTubers with their "Top 10 Things You Should Know as a New Author" videos. Most are people who had grand aspirations of being the next world dominating author and are bitterly putting passive aggressive disappointment into their generic videos.

Writing groups tend to be the same. All these people in writing forums (much like right here) have so much in common with BookTubers.

>endlessly editing a project that will never be finished, always editing, think that editing should never end and will tell others to keep editing
>think that everyone's first work will be trash to excuse their own being trash
>are slaves to "writing rules" that they saw in listicles and on youtube and spout them at others because they think they're always "just one secret rule" away from being a great writer
>constantly say "you need to read to write!" so they can excuse spending all their time reading and never writing or finishing anything

>How do I sort my chapters?
Up to you. I keep the entire thing in one big document and format it later.
>How do I type it all out?
You can look up different formats of novels to adjust your margins so it looks like a "novel" on your word processor of choice already. Look up 6x9" formatting for most novels. A lot of it will depending what you're planning on doing for publishing.
>Where do I send
If you want to go through the Big 5 corporate publishing, you query agents who then try to sell your book to publishers. If you want to go the indie route you use KDP basically, with a few other options.
>What does a...
Up to you. If you're looking for suggestions on creative organization I could give some, but most people find what works for them. For me I assemble a story like mold by writing every part that comes to mind when I think of it then growing it all together which lets me tie parts in front to back since I know what's coming. Once there's enough I set it to the timeline of events. Other people literally just start on page 1, chapter 1, word 1, and go from there linearly somehow.

>>23116878
Yes yes. But anon what about authors that break all the normal rules and sperg out about the jews like famous author F Gardner? Clearly one does not have to follow such ridged rules and copy what everyone else does. What of the outliers?

Writing isn't that hard, how come none of you are remotely successful? The art threads on ic have good artists, how come every writing excerpt here is shit? Do good writers just not use 4chan?

Do you tell people your write? Like a cute co-worker who asked what you did all weekend? I'm not even finished the first draft but its basically all I'm doing in my free-time. I feel apprehensive talking about it. Like if I talk about it it'll snuff out the fire before it's roaring. And, of course, she will then ask what's is about, and I'll sound like a schizo freak trying to explain it. fuck man. ahhhhhhhhhh fuck. fuck it. I am a weird schizoid I gotta stop acting like I'm not. Might as well lean in.

>>23116963
see >>23116965

>>23114796
Based on my experience anon, here are my recommendations:
Bottle shop, what Americans call a liquor store and Brits call an Off-Licence. Raw material just walking through the door all day every day.
Hospital: work at a large city hospital either as an orderly or a security guard. You will see some shit.
Service station: again, normies coming in and out all day, all kids of people with all kinds of dramas.

>>23116963
Writing has a lower barrier of entry so yes there are more shit writers in existence than shit artists

>>23116982
yeah but none?

>>23116982
Because I dont want to waste money on a drawing tablet and my keyboard is perfectly fine and I want to be able to easily tell long form narratives

>>23116986
I am guessing the good writers simply don't use /lit/

>>23116988
talentless AND poor? oof

>>23116878
>Probably one of the worst things you can do is watch BookTubers

No kidding. It's all variation of the same lip service advice delivered by some alleged professional you've never heard of.

>>23116965
>Do you tell people your write?
Not anymore. I used to always tell people I was going to write something but then I never did and ended up looking like a dick when they kept asking me how it was going.

Yeah I went and saw booktubers videos and they seem all like top tens and not all that informative and stuff. I'd prefer to read advice online instead of going to booktubers

>>23116982
Yes, any dumbass can put words on a page, so they think they can write. It also has a lot of prestige so you get the pseudo-intellectuals.

I too am a dumbass, but one that put lots of words on pages.

My favorite genre to read is sci-fi, but I've been scared to write it. I'm not super knowledgeable about space, rockets etc and I feel like i'd do the genre a disservice.

Are there any good sci-fi authors who don't go all in on the details? I know Douglas Adams, but are there anyone else?

This is gonna sound stupid as fuck, but how do you guys come up with a story?
I know what concepts I want to explore: Heroism, Coming of Age, Enemies to Lovers, Femme Fatales, Honor vs Duty, a Rigid Caste/Feudal system that favors the strong while oppressing the weak, and also a period of Warring States.
BUT, aside, from that, I have ZERO idea for how I could implement this into a story.
The closest I've gotten were: A story of squabbling nobles fighting over the throne, power, love, and lust, while an ancient and long forgotten evil marches on them out of sight. (I scrapped this because this was basically just A Song of Ice and Fire); a crippled boy sold into slavery in a world of cutthroat martial mages, whom breaks free and becomes an outlaw as he searches for his sister while slowly becoming stronger until he's strong enough to overthrow the caste system as a whole (scrapped this because it's basically every xianxia ever written)
Those are a few examples, but I've come up with a lot of "stories" that I realized were just me regurgitating some of my favorite books in my own words.

>>23117320
Are you planning on publishing? If not, why did you scrap it? Why not just finish writing your story?

>>23115309
/lit/ is going to produce many books in 2024. Just watch.

>>23117320
I just imagine things. Also you should rip off ideas from other books and TV/Vidya if that's too hard for you

>>23116129
>>23116141
>>23116206
>>23116212
Frank, in my experience, has been nothing but helpful and supportive of other authors. Maybe there is a personal dispute behind the scenes going on with other authors, but he has always been nice to me.

>>23117325
>Are you planning on publishing
Eventually, yes.
>why did you scrap it?
I want to write my own story, not an inferior copy of someone else's story
>>23117327
>I just imagine things
Can you walk me through your thought process? Do you focus on themes and then branch out from there on ways that you can explore said themes?
Do you focus on characters and how they would react to the world to craft your narrative?
Do you spent hours meticiously worldbuilding before you start your story, so that you'll have resources and concepts to draw upon for your story?
Basically, what's your brainstorming method for a good story.
>Also you should rip off ideas from other books and TV/Vidya if that's too hard for you
Again, I don't wanna copy. I want a story that comes from my heart

>>23116978
Work dispatch at a construction company and you get to deal with everyone:
>customers
>angry public
>workers
>CEO
>HR
>upper management
Dispatch is also where all the shit rolls downhill to, so if there is ever a problem, it is your fault.

>>23117275
>I'm not super knowledgeable about space, rockets etc and I feel like i'd do the genre a disservice.

People often say Sci Fi is harder to write because, science, but I think while there may be truth to it's not the bar of entry you think it is. You don't have to explain how every hyper drive works. You don't need to explain a lot really. What you do need though is internal consistency. You don't need to explain how the warp drive works so long as it works the same way every time.

>>23117320
The examples you give aren't super specific plots, you can still write those. Just approach it in a novel way.

My strategy for coming up with ideas:
>If I have any kind of "huh, that'd be cool" idea I put it on a notes app on my phone.
>I put myself in boring situations. Bus rides, walks or housework without music. Work if your work is braindead.

Brains will put ideas together and make connections if they have nothing more interesting to do.

I read a lot of Koontz in my younger years are there any bad habits I may have picked up I need to quit?

>>23117332
>Can you walk me through your thought process?
It's not something I sit down and do. I have a hyperactive imagination so my brain is just racing at all times and if is stumble onto something interesting I'll jot it down and try expanding it on it later, then augment my idea using research. I feel my way into a story first before I think. Look inward and try to identify what things you find cool, it doesn't have to be anything concrete. Write down a cool quote from a book you read. Listen to music that compels you. Look at art that inspires. Something springs up through all these pieces coming together.

>>23117375
Also
>Again, I don't wanna copy. I want a story that comes from my heart
It'll come from your heart but it's 2024, everything has already been written and your work is going to be similar to something else whether you like it or not. Might as well handpick what you're ripping off than be blindsided later on that someone already did your "original" idea 20 years ago

>>23117386
>>23117320
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDuMp2kDxos

This is the episode for you

About to finish my first short story, or at least the first one I ever completed. About 6,000 words. Do I share it with /lit/? It’s genre fiction

>>23116247
subtle

>>23117424
sure why not

I can only ever write when I am drunk. I am not sure why. Perhaps it is because I am less critical of my work? Anyway, I want to be able to write sober so can anyone help me with that?

>>23117435
Write drunk edit sober

>>23117449
I really want to cut back the amount of alcohol that I am drinking so this is not a long term solution.

Anyone got a link to the discord?

>>23117275
What sort of sci-fi do you like to read?
A lot of it is light on technical detail but it does somewhat depend on the subgenre you're interested in

Somehow, in the process of writing this 5000 word piece for a competition due on the 1st of March, I have gotten 1500 words in and realised the whole idea is fucking boring. I have lost the ability to come up with things I enjoy writing. Writing this is a chore. Should I give up or just soldier through to the end of the story and throw it to the competition like an abandoned dog?

>>23118010
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYzMYcUty6s

>>23117320
I don't know. Take what you have and turn it into a blurb or something.

Book 1:
Young Anon-kun had it all: wealth, status, and a kind sister. But his life was shattered when the Royal Martial Mages accused him of a heinous crime. Crippled and condemned, Anon-kun was cast to the lowest rung of society, where he would spend the rest of his life in chains. But fate had other plans for him. A chance encounter with the beautiful and deadly Femanon set him on a path of vengeance and rebellion. But could he truly trust Femanon and her so-called freedom fighters? And how far would he go to rescue his sister from the clutches of his enemies?
Join Anon-kun on his journey of vengeance and redemption in the thrilling first book of the Martial Mage trilogy!
Book 2:
Victory came at a terrible cost. Femanon’s sacrifice lit the spark of revolution. And Anon-kun found himself saddled with the responsibility left by his late master and lover, as the heir to her ancient and terrible dark martial magic. But mastering martial magic alone was not enough. Anon-kun also had to deal with the intrigues and betrayals within his own ranks, as he raced against time to stop a mole before he destroyed the rebellion from within. And as the continent was about to erupt into war, Anon-kun uncovered a shocking truth that could change everything…
Don’t miss the second book of the Martial Mage trilogy, where Anon-kun faces his greatest challenge yet!
Book 3:
The kingdom was in ruins. The army of shadows, commanded by the ancient demon lord Janny, had swept across the land, leaving death and destruction in their wake. The Royal Martial Mages had fallen, but so had most of the freedom fighters. Anon-kun must somehow unite the survivors to make a final stand against the dark forces—even those he once called enemies. Amidst the flames of war, Anon-kun reunited with his sister. The woman who had taken everything from him and murdered his lover in cold blood. She was now the right hand of Janny, and she had a sinister plan for him and the world. Could Anon-kun find the strength in himself to finish off his sister for good? And could he stop Janny and his undying army?
Find out in the thrilling finale of the Martial Mage trilogy, where Anon-kun’s final destiny will be revealed!

How stupid does it sound to have a mid-story climax where shit hits the fan and everything gets upended into a fucked up "dark world" of people and places they've come to known?
With the obvious intention, of course, having the buildup to that point not feel like bloated filler full of red herrings? And that it's an irreversible change not some sort of "power of friendship return everything back to normal"
Part of me thinks
>if that's the interesting part of the story just start there
But having written too many shorts lately, I feel like there's a lot you could gain by having proper build up to that point

>>23118010
I don't get what the point of submitting something you're not confident about to a competition would be. If it's decently large competition (30+ entries), your work (if it's as bad as you say) will be dropped within the first paragraph, so it's not like anyone is going to read it to begin with.

At least the websloppers know their work will be read. If no one is going to read your fiction (including yourself, because you hate it) why are you writing? This is a clear signal that you should be working to improve your writing instead (or just working on a new story, if that's the problem). If you can't even entertain yourself with your fiction, you shouldn't expect others to be.

>>23118324
What could be stupid about it?

>>23118666
concerned that the build up would come off as a "haha it's subversive!" and betray the reader's trust a bit, even if it's foreshadowed/logical chain of events/etc.

>>23118324
Doesn't sound stupid at all

I have no motivation man I just want to fucking play vidya and watch shitty movies until bed time. AAAAAAAA

>>23119047
Learn to build habit and discipline, rather than relying on motivation

>>23118787
Almost as stupid as subverting for subversion's sake is avoiding subversion out of the fear of being seen as a trend-chaser. No, actually more.

>>23118562
Finishing it is the aim. Submission is just to say I did so to myself. I expect nothing and I will not use a writers name I intend to use going forward on this submission.

>Want to make money? Ok, write what the retards want to read.
>Want to write what you want to write? Ok, never make any money.
How do you get around this paradox?

>>23119270
Make it so you want to write what retards want to read
>I don't want to do that
Tough

>>23119185
Truth
>>23118959
Thanks
I know I'm over thinking it, still in the midst of a multiyear long block which has me doubling down at the start so I don't set myself up for failure rather than just enjoying the process

>>23119279
I was born lucky because I simply enjoy writing slop :) The bliss of retard brain

>>23119328
Based fellow slopchad

>>23119242
So using the submission as a termination point? Fine, I suppose. But finishing isn't really much of a goal in and of itself. If you don't care about the result, you could literally just spam the same word over and over to meet the word count or just do a stream of consciousness dump. Does the competition not have an entrance fee to prevent half-hearted entries like yours?

And what is the point of working on something which has no stakes attached, anyway? I suspect your fiction is the same, which is why its boring.

Rate my prose? This is my first time seriously writing something, and I get the feeling that it’s grating to read and lacks personality. I can’t quite determine why.

>>23119507

>>23119392
There is a cash prize, but there is no entry fee. It is a very small competition and is its first time going. I have broken my writers block, however, and so far it has been quite fun to write. I will have 2-3 days to mull over it and try to coax out the best of it I can.

>>23119530
>I have broken my writers block, however, and so far it has been quite fun to write.
Ah, OK, that makes sense. Carry on and good luck.

>>23119328
Based and same. I love reading and writing ya romance

maybe this is cringe but I love having "holy shit" moments when I'm outlining the plot

Got 5k words down this afternoon into my current work. Keep pluggin out there.

>>23118010
MW or PP?

There is a new /lit/ publication in paperback. It's a 'best of' from the /ffa/ stories. Did any of you write for those anthologies?

>>23118213

>>23119507
this isn't the first writing you've shared here though. could have sworn ive read something from you maybe a few months ago

anyway, what are you trying to achieve here? i'm tempted to dismiss whatever this is immediately, but context matters

I have been sticking to an unreliable 3rd person narrator for most of my writings so far, one that has insight into the MCs head and nothing more.
But I also always wanted to try to write in a more neutral and pure style like McCarthy used in blood meridian. Something about the cold indifference and purely descriptive, observing nature of the narration told me to pay attention to what is being done, the actions the characters took and at the same time, allowed for the readers to imagine much without telling them much forthright.
I figured theMC of such a story would either have to voice their thoughts or stay an enigma, any character to that fact. What do you suppose else I can read to brush up on that style? Who else has experience with that sort of style

>>23119047
i just got all my gaming and slopping out of the way first. im now ready to begin writing

>>23119889
Idk how I can convince you, but this is my first time posting writing on 4chan. This wasn’t made for anything specific, just verbalizing some thoughts

"Can you stop getting back up?"
>Sanen crawled towards Lape, using his older brother as leverage to hold himself upright. Gripping Lape's shoulder with what little strength he had, he stared directly into his elder siblings eyes. His eye and lips were swollen like water balloons, his nose poured gouts of red, and he was nearly missing a tooth. His Silat uniform was in tatters, the black cloth fluttering in the wind. Lape, on the contrary, had nary a scratch on him. Sanen spoke, his voice a suffocated, coughing one that somewhat struggled to breathe.
"Can you just... Come home? We can... Start over."
>Lape looked at his little brother, and to Sanen's surprise, he placed his hand on his shoulder.
"Do I look like I want this? To have to beat down my own kin?"
>Sanen strained to hold his head up, struggling with each word.
"Don't you... Remember what dad... Told you? He doesn't want... You to be like... Great-Grandpa."
>Lape recalled the stories well. His own great-grandfather. Hineb. The madman who caused untold suffering in his ceaseless fighting and pursuit of power. He sometimes had nightmares of that man


I'm outta ideas, whatever

>>23119980
I ship it.

>>23119993
It's a long story.
Also their names are fruits backwards in Malay because lol

Everytime I start a new chapter I take a tarot card equivalent to the chapter's number. It's supposed to be the last chapter and I got the Temperance, a major arcana. What does that mean?

>>23119929
well, there are at least 2 too many of you now. your writing could use more structure and less schizophrenia.

I did it! I finished my first draft!

>>23120139
that's cringe. draw a random card

>>23120200
But I shuffle the deck randomly, of course. The number is not, but the card is.

>>23120171
Well done, anon! Proud of you. Enjoy the feeling of acomplishment, you deserve it. You did more than most here will ever do. You're gonna make it!

Is it too overdone to have a fantasy setting with an endless winter? Feels like everyone from Tad Williams to GRRM has done it using Norse mytholoy as an influence

>>23118324
"Chosen Ones" by Veronica Roth was like that. But then, that was YA.

I won a writing contest.
Sure, it isn't a cash prize, I'll get a mug and a shirt or something like that, but it feels good to win something.
And no, I'm not posting it, because unfortunately the moment people hear 4chan they look at those who use it like lepers.

How do you know if you're writing a Gary Stu/Mary Sue? How can you change your story if that ends up being the case?

>>23120450
do they have flaws that actually affect the main story? are they the center of the universe for no good reason?

>>23119993
Our protagonist has one hell of a backstory. Mostly exists to put this all into context.
>100 years ago, a martial artist was born in Ipoh
>Fucker was an absolute god damn legend. Strong as they come
>Unfortunately he was also batshit fucking insane power-mad lunatic who ripped every fighter he could find a new asshole in his relentless search for more power
>It got to the point that his son and grandson had to team up to beat his ass up and get him to fuck off. Guy had a kid when he was 16, why not. They've got very close generations.
>Everyone just remembers him as a demonic monster who died in the middle of nowhere from his injuries
>60 years later is when our story begins.
>Our protagonist is the great-grandson of that lunatic
>His family practiced martial arts as sort of a familial tradition even before the lunatic, but our MC was a true fighter at heart
>His family saw some eerie similarities with his great grandpappy, and so actively limited how much he was allowed to train or fight. Usually in really soft competitions with strict rulesets
>This just made him want it more
>So one night he just gathered all his shit and booked it to wander the world to grow in strength and fight
>His family is desperately trying to get him to come home, to the point that his little brother trained himself intensely to have a shot at defeating and dragging him back
>He's been at this for 8-ish years, but he lost his left hand at the 6 year mark to a lunatic. Now he wants to get it back in blood
I'm debating making his great-grandparent a she for extra weirdness.

Is it okay

>>23120854
You use his name too often.

how do you write interesting characters if you're a boring person? I'm naturaally kind of lethargic and checked out emotionally but I'm attracted to sporadic but learned personalities. My favorite person irl is this kind of chuddy guy I work with who knows a lot about history and jokes about fat people. he's not a super-developed person or anything, he's just weird but not off-putting. I want to write characters like that.

How do I become less critical of my writing? I am so critical of my writing that I don't write because I don't think that it's good enough. The only way that I have been able to get around this is to write while drunk; but I don't want to be reliant on this. I need help bros.

>>23121004
you literally just get over it, what do you want, a cheat code? same response to the anon above complaining about motivation. sorry retards you just gotta do it. welcome to everything worthwhile in life

I'm sorry! I'm sorry for all the things that I said to you!

>>23120922
I think using epithets instead of names is okay in moderation and subscribe to the idea that reusing names is fine in the same was reusing said is. It kind of, fades away into the background.

>>23121213
fades into the background? anon made the comment because it obviously didn't. especially in first person, the way it's being narrated. it's jarring.

i need roughly 1m+ more words before im any good at writing.
a writing prompt, please

>>23121285
Death of the west from the perspective of a journalist sent from New York.
The town he is sent has a copper golem named Copperhead as the sheriff.
Industrialization has been causing both the death of the western lifestyle and the death of magic.

It's something that I've had the idea for, but I've just never gotten around to writing, and until I finish my current story and the next one I wouldn't even start.

>>23121374
i can work with that, thanks

>>23120970
>how do you write interesting characters if you're a boring person?
The goal isn't to write about yourself, but the kind of people you do find interesting.

Every book I write ends up incorporating my mental illness somewhere. I just can't stop myself. It's embarrassing.

>>23121550
The first story that I wrote which didn't have some basis in myself and my issues felt hollow, it was the worst thing I wrote.
The next story I wrote did have part of myself in it, and I won a small contest with it.

>>23120854
A cough, a gasp, a humph, a stutter, a laugh, and a shush in a single dialog exchange. It’s a bit much, even by anime standards.
“Caitlin. Cough! You’re still here.”
“Disappointed?”
“Gasp!”
“Hahaha! I’m kidding, Christiansen. Good morning.”
“Morning. Do you want to get going?”
“I’d rather stay longer. I’m not ready to get up yet—Umpf! Stop that. You’re squishing me.”
“S-sorry.”
“Shhhh.”

>>23120854
>Despite his numerous social and intellectual deficiencies
Fucking hell shots fired officer down

>full time job and live with gf
Don't fall for it. Writing is impossible in such conditions.

>>23121136
No you’re not, you fucking prick.

How bad does it sound in English when you end a sentence with a preposition?
For example: "He went to the dance floor and looked for a girl to dance with" is ugly and should be replaced with "He went to the dance floor and looked for a girl to dance"?

>>23122981
Ending a sentence with a preposition is like raping the reader to death. Do you want to be a rapist murderer?

>>23121859
Is it bad that when I fuck up like this, I want to delete all my writing and never touch it again?

>>23122981
it’s technically incorrect but it’s how people talk irl all the time. in writing it’s best to avoid it but not a big deal really.

>>23122981
"He went to the dance flor and looked for a girl with which to dance" should be better

>>23122226
You have to choose one of them, both will make writing impossible, yes. But a part time with a gf is cozy and peak literary life.

>>23123253
It's "with whom" unless you're insinuating that women are mere objects in which case, based.

>>23122981
“This is the type of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put.” -Winston Churchill

>>23122981
nobody cares as long as your overall style is not very formal. what makes that sentence clumsy is the repetition "to the dance... to dance". why not "he went to the dance floor and looked for a partner. the girl had huge tits etc etc"

>>23120385
Congrats anon! You can always mention the win on any author bio page you have (e.g. Amazon/GoodReads).

>>23124292
Thanks. As soon as I finish the story I'm working on now, I intend to write a proper novel based on the the short story and include that it is contest winning. I could probably say award winning, but that feels a little dishonest.

>>23123267
chad mode is live with gf who does the work

>>23123229
>it’s technically incorrect
No

Sometimes I'm scared by how good AI is at writing like NovelAI.

>>23126088
Sometimes I wish I was this bad a judge of quality. The world would look so amazing

Tear it apart as much as you can

>>23117320
Homie that's just a list of tropes to begin with. You gotta have characters and a theme and that's where you should start. You almost got there with the vague story idea in the latter part but again, you don't really have any characters there either. The closest you got was the unnamed slave but then you had to go and fuck it up by using "whom" wrong.

>>23120854
this is the woman version of a teenage boy's generic Conan power fantasy

>>23121550
worked for Lovecraft

>>23126304
>he was hoping and praying
pick one
>wasn’t too bad beyond repair
pick one
>potentially salvage and save it
pick one
>cursed and spat in frustration
pick one
>screaming and blaspheming
pick one
>he could think of that rolled into his head
pick one
that’s all one sentence. you are repeating yourself A LOT.

Details are important for a good ambient. Normally I don't care about describing sounds or colours and whatnot, a scene constituing bascially of people doing stuff somewhere. But now I'm reading My Struggle (the Norway one) and it's brilliant how he paints each scene with details - and those details give it emotion. I should focus more on that.

>>23126304
I feel like the bit with the snow queen should be moved somewhere else. He's having a medical crisis and contemplating cutting his hand off. Its an urgent situation, not really the time for an exposition dump.

>>23126369
>cursed and spat in frustration
>screaming and blaspheming
Those two are actually ok because they're not necessarily redundant. "Screaming and blaspheming" has a nice ring to it, I'd keep it. But yeah, you're right about the rest.

>>23126304
A whole paragraph is pasted twice. Maybe use a font size that's actually readable to avoid dumb blunders like this

>>23126377

My Struggle has some beautifully written scenes like when he's cleaning up his dead relatives house but that's what I like about Knausgaard's writing it's really simple but he evokes a lot of emotion that resonates well with the reader. I like his newer series the one about the star but feel like it isn't getting the same attention same attention as My Struggle it kind of reminds me of a cross between David Lynch and Krzysztof Kieślowski in some areas.


>>23126401

I'll move it down maybe after he's chopped his hand off I feel then would be more suitable for an info/lore dump. Maybe making people more curious why the world is a frozen hellscape the way it is and create a more sense of mystique.

>>23126495

I'll polish and refine it for the next thread. That was a mistake I did not mean to post the same sections twice. My bad.

>>23113694
Eh, not really. At times, when I write short stories, it helps me work on my creative writing skills. Sometimes, they are shit, sometimes , they are good. Right now, I'm currently writing a short story collection.

is my writing bad? how do i know

>>23126700
>is my writing bad? how do i know
Gee, anon, you didn't bother capitalizing the letter "i" in is, "H" in how, and "I" for the pronoun.

>>23126700
If you're asking this question, just assume it's bad. One of the things that makes you a good writer is the confidence that comes from knowing that you've attained a minimum professional level. You may never know if your writing is great, but a pro will at least know their writing isn't bad. And that confidence shows in the writing itself.

>>23126714
So i should give up?

>>23126743
dont be a pussy

>>23126746
Well theres nothing else I can do

>>23126746
I keep wanting to write and keep going back to it after years and years but everytime I post here people think I'm trolling its so bad.

>>23126789
Why don't you just make an effort to improve then?

>>23126802
I dont understand how im not

>>23126804
Then honestly yeah its over for you. It should be painfully, cringe-inducingly obvious what's wrong as a beginner, because you should have read enough books to have an instinctive understanding of what good prose is
So, have you not read much and not built that intuition, or are you 80 iq?

I will read just one more book about writing then I will finally be able to write

>>23126890

>>23126304
the second paragraph is all one sentence. Reading comprehension goes out the window at the end of the first compound sentence. Long sentences are absolute nigger tier garbage. If you can't say something with a short sentence, don't say it at all.

>>23126860
I'm just trying to write something I like reading. You don't have to be mean

>>23126700
Post it

>>23127051
You should kill yourself you worthless nigger kike faggot.

>>23127051
if you like reading it, then you’re succeeding regardless of what anyone itt thinks.

>>23126980
>Reading comprehension goes out the window at the end of the first compound sentence.
>Long sentences are absolute nigger tier garbage
Disregard this retard until he posts his own writing

>>23127205
Wrong
I'm sure cwc likes his art and writing too

>>23126304
A few thoughts. Your sentences are too long; semicolons and commas only go so far in establishing continuity. You have a tendency to use two words where one will do, as others have mentioned
>charred and blackened
>exiled and banished
Many of your sentences, aside from being long, are bloated. I'll break one example down
>It would be necessary to tend to the hand right away to prevent the rot from getting worse than it already was.
>It would be necessary
This is bad writing. Rewrite it in the active to evoke a stronger image.
>getting worse than it already was
Also bad writing. You can replace this entire phrase with a single word. Here's an example that conveys the exact same information without all the bloat.
>He needed to tend his hand right away to prevent the rot from worsening.
The idea of "worse" and "rot" are closely related, so something like "further rot" works as well.
>He needed to tend his hand immediately to prevent further rot.

https://pastebin.com/1mevSxF9

>>23127471
Flow is clunky in some places and the prose is a bit stale, but it's nothing a bit of editing can't iron out eventually.

Other than that? I think it's good. The premise and the execution are pretty good, and you conveyed the multiple emotional layers of it very well. The most telling part that you know what you're doing is that you managed to write the dialogue in such a way that speech tags were not needed. That's a pretty advanced thing to have a solid grasp of.

(I personally enjoy the addition of non-verbal communication in the form of body language, but that's a whole other thing and entirely based on taste. I think a bit of it sprinkled into the dialogue could really be the cherry on top, but by no means is it necessary.)

Generally speaking, these are signs that your writing is good. My advice? Just keep doing what you're doing. I know that it's a bit of a cop-out for feedback, but sometimes all you need to hear is 'yeah, this is good, keep doing that'.

>>23126304
With work like this I feel like it's not even worth the energy to take it apart and offer feedback because writers like you are usually averse to the work it takes to make your writing better. You're in it for the momentary distraction from consuming other media (anime, video games, and tabletop games, if I had to guess) even though you're just recreating those forms (badly) in prose. If you actually cared at all about writing, a proper sense of shame would have prevented you from posting this in the first place.

>>23127705
That's pretty harsh. What's wrong with writing as a hobby?

>>23127769
Nothing. I myself am a hobbyist, but I have enough respect for the craft, for my writing, for my reader, and for myself not to post completely unedited braindumps. Can you honestly say that you (or the anon who posted that work, if its not you) couldn't have improved that work yourself before you posted it? That it represents, if not your best effort, at least an honest one? I get it, this is 4chan, shitposting central, so you can post whatever, but people that say "tear me apart" and then post absolute doggrel are worse than the folks that try to preface with excuses like "I know it's bad, but...". It's the dishonesty that annoys me, in a medium which is all about absolute honesty.

>>23127806
>4chan
>Honesty

>>23113621
How do I start trying to write an autistic (both male and female) character?

>>23126714
pyw

>>23127806
>but people that say "tear me apart" and then post absolute doggrel are worse than the folks that try to preface with excuses like "I know it's bad, but...". It's the dishonesty that annoys me, in a medium which is all about absolute honesty.
You see it on /ic/ and r*ddit all the time, they present shit work and get absolutely shitter shattered when you point out that they put no effort into the presentation, as though they expected a participation trophy instead of the kick in the dick they asked for. The truth of the matter is that writing is craft and craft is a type of work. It takes a very real dedication to the craft to humbly submit to getting your shit kicked in and you can tell who isn't ready by how they handle that first feedback.

I also don't think these media poisoned adult children have anything to say and are so addled that they mistake the spectacle for the message in the trash they consume. Hence all the focus on worldbuilding and window dressing instead of what people read fiction for.

>>23127948
>>23127806
I dont get you two, its amateurs asking for advice. Yeah of course its shoddy. That doesnt mean an effort wasnt made. You people are insane.

>>23127948
Then post your writing if you're so good at it and care so much about the craft. Let's see

>>23127959
Why bother giving feedback to someone who doesn't present the best work he can muster? If I make a silver gelatin print and there's dust on the negative and it's covered in fixer stains, I did a shit job and shouldn't show it to anyone. Anon asked to get ripped open, and he got what he asked for.

>>23127962
>pyw
You mad. Come rim my ass and I might think about it.

>>23127941
>>23127962
Once upon a time, a chicken died. Another chicken walked up to it, pecked at it, and said "yum! yum! good chicken!"

>>23127979
Who are you to say thats not his best work? Do you know him?

Yeah seeing this reaction I'm definitely never posting my work here. Maybe just stop by here just for some advice every now and then

what is with the fucking idiots trying to defend their writing after asking for feedback?
if you think their feedback is 'wrong', just ask yourself why they gave it, and fuck off if you don't have any questions

>>23128288
What on earth are you referencing? Nobody in this entire thread has done that. Did you make up a scenario in your head that upset you and posted your reaction here?

>>23128293
you'll notice it when you've been around here for longer than 15 minutes.

>>23128308
Oh show me the posts

>>23128311
guessing i struck a nerve. lol
couldn't be you, huh
anyway it's happened a few times in this thread, but it's typical behavior that anyone who's given feedback would have encountered. welcome to /wg/

I’m in the process of writing a fantasy/romance inspired stylistically by things like Wuthering Heights and Pride & Prejudice. Do I have any sort of market appeal or am I doomed to obsolescence under piles of things like The Love Hypothesis?

>>23128332
I'm just confused now man what on earth are you saying. Nobody did that

>>23128340
none of the incel NEET shutin autists here have the slightest idea about market appeal

>>23128068
Why would you get advice from unsuccessful 4chan users who've never published or sold a book? Using this thread in any serious manner is basically guaranteeing you're NGMI, not necessarily because the feedback and discourse is that horrible on its own, but because it's indicative of having retard brain to come to take advice from unknown amateurs. Imagine if Nabokov went on Goodreads and revised Lolita based on random reader reviews there. That's essentially what getting feedback from an anonymous thread is, except maybe worse, because at least people posting reviews on goodreads read books, and I bet some portion of /wg/ doesn't even do that. The only thing you can trust someone here telling you is that your writing is total dogshit, but if you couldn't figure that out yourself...well, see my original point.

>>23128409
Speak for yourself. I have my finger on the pulse when it comes to slop eaters

How do I find local fascist or communist meetings?
I'm just curious. Does stuff like that still exist? I saw it in a book and it captured me. I've never heard of people meeting up for anything

>>23116978
I read a sample of your first book. It's well written, descriptive, but not my thing as I have never been to aussieland or resided there.

>>23128422
pyw

>>23128416
>Why would you get advice from unsuccessful 4chan users who've never published or sold a book?
What does publishing and selling books have to do with quality writing? Walk into any Barnes and Noble and look at all the published and sold slop.
>guaranteeing you're NGMI
>Nabakov
Not everyone is trying to "make it". People can do this as a hobby. Your entire post reeks of your own insecurity at never "making it".

>>23117275
I plan on writing a space scifi adaptation into book form. I was a semi finalist in 4 screenplay hollywood contests with the story but I didn't describe the ships beyond basic details. I fear I don't possess the vocabulary to describe specific ship designs and such, should I read more space scifi?

>>23116978
>Bottle shop, what Americans call a liquor store and Brits call an Off-Licence. Raw material just walking through the door all day every day.
>gas station
Both will kill your soul just a little bit, but the endless number of broken weirdos coming through the door every day is excellent grist for the mill.

>>23128451
You should read a reference book on modern warships and aircraft. Or better yet take a tour of one. Go to a museum. The key to description is to speak with a voice of authority, to divulge the little details only an insider would know. When describing something that isn't real you can achieve authority by borrowing the details from real life equivalents, using your imagination to fill in the blanks.

How bad is exposition in the form of a 12 page flashback with expository dialogue if its entertaining and rest of the story and characters are considered well written and enjoyable?

>>23128482
Thank you for the suggestion. I will do so.

>>23128451
not every book dives into those details. if you're writing something like the martian or project hail mary, you probably want a PhD. if you're writing 40k, you can read... master and commander.

>>23128485
if everything else you said is true then it’s fine.

>>23128340
Have you actually thought this through? You're apparently writining something to compete with two of the most renowned romance novels of all time. Yes there's a market, as evidenced by those books never having gone out of print, but do you really think you can beat them?

>>23128500
it doesn't work like that...
the classics sell because they are classics. you can't piggyback on that.
you don't need to 'beat' anyone. there are already millions of books written that you aren't beating.

>>23128444
>What does publishing and selling books have to do with writing quality?
You can't make this shit up. Only on /wg/ lmao
Me personally, I'll look for advice from people who've found success in their field, not raving lunatics on the street corner. Call it an unconventional strategy, I guess

>>23128508
How about you stop being a pussy and try to write something good rather than something that sells? Ever consider that, retard?

There's something wrong with you people.

>>23128553
go ahead and check the url of the website you're on
no shit
there's something wrong with you too

>>23128535
Not unconventional, but surely mislead. Plenty of great writers died in obscurity only to become popular years later. You'd have ignored their advice, you mad genius.

>>23128566
It's a meaningless point, since we don't know who those unknown geniuses are. Odds are about a million times higher somebody with no success is just a shit writer, not a great writer dying in obscurity.
Between listening to someone with credentials or something with no credentials, the former is always better.
Just baffling that you're contesting that. Absurd. Retarded. A bit comical too. Can only assume you think you're one of those unfound talents

Can I still be good riter if monolingual

Still barebones
The child searches among the gallery of twinkling stars for a pale red dot. The girl is too young to remember the day 200 spacemen left for Mars. She dreams of people in white suits and bubble dome helmets planting flags in red soil, and rover rides through raging dust storms. Everyone guesses the fate of those voyagers: adrift in space, or maybe starved and forgotten on the shore of an alien frontier. The girl sees the boundless sky, scarcely understanding the vastness.

The rover skitters over cracked rock and sand, a plume of red dust trailing behind it. The man lurches into a dune, sprawling along the cold desert. He watches it crest the horizon, leaving billowing rust-coloured sand in its wake. The O2 gauge ticks imperceptibly. “A few good hours”, he thought, “it'll be plenty”. The spaceman rises to his feet and scans the area. Tread marks are tattooed into the dried-blood earth and red dust swirls like vapour.

He walks along a ridge opposite the flat plains below. An alabaster man marching beneath a steely, cloudless sky. Inside that dome, there are echoes of another world. Whispers of verdant forests and azure seas. He cannot imagine these things. He has only known maroon deserts and hard people. He has sifted through twisted metal salvage and watched brilliant blue sunsets. He has never seen an animal other than man. How strange it seems that there is a world where all manner of life thrives. Beyond him the frames of rotten machines blot the rolling desert. Their fossils glint in the silvery light before disappearing beneath a shroud of sand. He cannot hear the whipping winds or crackling beneath his feet. His slow, measured breaths break the muffled silence.

A pair of arms wraps around him and suddenly he is knocked down. Two ivory silhouettes tumble along the hill. Limbs intertwine as both struggle in a confused mess. A glass dome crashes against stone. The man scrapes against the gritty slope, clumsily reaching out to slow his fall.
A crackling voice in his ear asks “what the Hell's going on, Winston. Heart rate is spiking”

The two figures lie motionless at the base of a hill. Winston rises to his feet, wavering unsteadily. His attacker lies flat on his back with a shattered visor. The shards wreath a crystal halo around his head. The eyes, turgid with panic, dart about. Winston sees his skin graying. A few ragged gasps escape before he suffocates.

“Get the Hell out of there”

>>23128485
>a 12 page flashback with expository dialogue
>its entertaining
Impossible equation

>>23128538
what does that have to with what i said? also, make me

>>23128843
I like it! Especially the descriptions of the Martian surface.

Are the first few references about a relevant character, or just introduction/showing an omniscient narrator? When the spaceman's focus is on the dome and the world/animals he's never seen, you could refer back to the girl for symmetry. She's never seen his world, he's never seen hers.

>>23128843
i feel like this is jumping around too much. Why include a paragraph about the child and the girl? is this relevant to the man? And im just not drawn in by endless description. Why do I care that he's rovering, and then walking, etc.

im not saying with context i would care more either. im saying there's just no source of importance or tension. also there are too many landscape descriptions, way too many.

maybe try cutting the descriptiveness, and rearrange the order of events. open with the guy driving his rover, then he's confronted or grabbed or whatever. Then later on you can contextualize the steely sky, the brilliant blue sunset it happened under, etc.

Finally just finished editing my short story. Just have to turn it into a word file, edit the margins, make a cover for it, PDF that shit, and then spam it on here.

Doomogg


The twins were both shuddered, mean, gifted and confused that summer, when they first discovered cinema by way of their father’s screening room and its relentless air conditioning. He had a projectionist that had been living in their mansion and the twins had never once seen him or heard about him; he slept in a hammock inside the booth and was paid very handesomely. Miss Madison and Mr. Mason are what he calls them, and asks if there is a film they want to watch.
“When was the last time our dad or anyone projected anything in here?”
“About hmm..mmm, creo que, ehmm... hmm, how do you say, uhhm, six month?”
“You just say six month, or usually six months, months, with an S, -plural. You know plural, yeah? (The Man smiles and nods and chuckles to the affirmative).
“Plural, yes, I learned all my English in here. I have some films with sub=-titles and then with... not subtitles, and so then I do both and switch among, umm, between two movies, is that right? Fuck...”

1/2

>>23129022

“Do you think we’re here to fire you or something?!”
“Yes! Yes, yes yes I do think!”
“Ok, well, we – are – not – here – to – fire – you. We’re just the kids. The Twins.”
“Yeah, the Twin Babies born on 9/11. You were famous until your parents get rid of newspaper stuff about it.”
“That’s us. Madison and Mason.”
“Ok, - so what can I do for you two both, today?”
“Madison wants to see if you can play anything but standard 35mm.”
“No. 16 and 65 is broken many years and would I need ten thousands of dollars to, erm, start this and need then from that I have to get even more cash and thousands of dollars, a few, to do the second thing.”
“OK, thanks a ton, we will wire that money and I have ten more projectors to give you along with a storage unit in the back compound storage building along with the key for locker #39.”
“OK, Mr. Madison and Mr. Mason – thank you so much – I am excited for work. I thought I would die and they would just find an, uhm... man of bones, a man that is dead and he is described by his bones, I’m sorry, - what, those things – are called?”
Madison has been smoking a spliff this whole time, and Mason has abruptly left twenty seconds ago as the man tried his best to “say whatever,” as Mason would put it. Madson hands him the spliff and he says no and so she says I’ll give you one thousand dollars to get high with me and before they both know it they are cooked and Madison feels amazing – and the Man is still paranoid and his heart pounds and pounds but it feels good to smoke in the booth and she asks his name: What’s even your name, Mr. Booth?
He thinks for a second.
“My name is uhhmm.... shit, fuck, I shouldnt do this... how can a stupid man even forget his name, his own name for Christ sake, oh yes – my name is Rodriguez Ignacio Aguilar, you can call me Rod.”
“It is nice to meet you and find this whole projection room. We – the Twins – are gonna need it, and so we’re gonna become friends, or we better not fuck around and hate each other or get into some passive-aggressive tiff... Sorry, Rogriguez, right?”
“That is me, Madison Blackworth.” He bows a bit. She winks at him and says she has to go find her twin brother, again, and deal with some more “chores” as she puts it, the two collaborating endlessly on projects and schemes and things to do to bolster their own personal stash of wealth – held in gold – and enjoying their dad’s mansion while they can and school starts up again in NYC in the Fall, back to that giant pinball machine of a city, back to chirping fire alarms and cops and cops and cops and some very interesting history that they both enjoy and have successfully debunked despite their age and experience.

2/2

>>23129027

Were you high when you wrote this?

> they first discovered cinema

I thought they were kids from this, though I assume from the spliff that they are not.

>the Twin Babies born on 9/11. You were famous until your parents get rid of newspaper stuff about it

This is clumsy exposition. Can you imagine saying this to someone? Let there be a leftover newspaper in the screening room, or something other than this.

The dialogue being a big block is a little hard to read. Put some lines between different characters' dialogue. I assume there's some interesting reason for their wanting to play a film that isn't in 35mm, but the motive is very vague.

>>23128438
Why does it matter if you've ever been to Australia or not? I read books all the time from and about countries i've never been to.

>>23129041
I didn't even get that far. The very first line is
>The twins were both shuddered, mean, gifted and confused that summer
Which is all sorts of fucked up, and I don't think it's because I've been up for nearly 24 hours.
The whole thing reads like it was written by someone without a grasp of the English language, and littered with errors.

>>23129041

Yes, I was high during the very first draft. I like how vague and strange it is but you're right, it could use a little more meat on its bones. Thx

>>23129062

I liked it and I still do. But I will probably end up re-working most of it.

>>23115337
>My palms wicked away the sweat of her trepidation as our hands tightly clasped

>>23129062
You don't understand Anon, the writing style mirrors the inability of the projectionist to grasp basic English.

>>23129064
Would it kill you to edit before you make other people read it?

>>23128340
Discount Jane Austen for the modern audience is huge at the moment thanks to Bridgerton. The market's probably pretty crowded by now, but if you have a fantasy spin on it you might be able to stand out from the sea of slop.

>>23127651
Appreciate the feedback, thanks. Glad the multiple layers of motivation didn't break suspension of disbelief, that's what I was worried about most. Did it hold your attention to the end? Which parts took you out (ignoring the prose issues which I'll fix)?

Is it best to be quick with rape scenes or to drag out the detail and actions?

>>23129431
Honestly? Naming your character Mrs. White. Every time I saw 'Mrs. White', my brain would flash me with scenes from Breaking Bad.

Memes aside, the biggest thing is the disconnect between the dialogue and the prose of narration. Discussing something like abuse is a serious and emotional experience, especially with the context that the main character was a victim as well. The prose is too stiff and 'matter of fact' in the way it is portrayed, making it almost seem like Mrs. White has an air of indifference to the whole thing, which she very obviously does not.

>>23128572
Your punctuation, especially comma placement, needs work.
>Odds are about a million times higher somebody with no success
This is stale and bloated imagery; you will accomplish the same with a concise "Odds are much higher someone unsuccessful".
>baffling, absurd, retarded, a bit comical
These all convey the same idea, you can trim a few out to make your writing less clunky, and add a subject and period to your last sentence to make it grammatically correct. All in all it's a 5/10 shitpost. Would it kill you to edit it before you make other people read it?

>>23129494
lol I resort to Breaking Bad stuff as a placeholder. E.g the address is from Breaking Bad as well.

Regarding the prose, I was trying very hard not to fall into sentimentality (which is a problem of mine) precisely because of how serious the issue was, but I suppose I may have gone too far in the other direction.

>>23128945
Good lord. Your reading comprehension is laughably bad. I would register your criticism, but you don't even have basic literacy skills. If you're going to attempt to give feedback, you should actually understand what you're reading.

>>23129483
This site is 18+, kiddo.

>>23128945
>descriptive writing
>try cutting the description
anon...

>>23129526
Your writing is completely disjointed and has negative momentum. Which is your fault, not the readers

>>23129526
lmao no matter how butthurt you get he's right, your shit doesn't flow at all, the sentences are random and disconnected. just the first paragraph: why use the girl's pov just to announce what she DOESN'T know? why does "everyone" suddenly chime in with their opinion instead of the girl? why do you introduce the image of the astronauts being already on mars only to retract it in the next sentence and suggest they might never have reached it? why does she begin the paragraph searching for something specific in the sky but end it "seeing" the sky, as if she wasn't staring at it the whole time? it's all out of order, your thoughts are scrambled.

I was discussing writing with dead famous people in my sleep and one postulated that
>the reader's own life cannot be more interesting than the novel, or it will fail
and I find that hard to disagree with. Even novels where little happens and the subject is otherwise boring, it is more interesting than most lives in how it is presented and plays out. It was a very interesting seminar to attend.

>>23129640
The majority have lives less interesting than novels, and they are still bored TOUCHE

>>23129694
Novels are for people who like people, romance is for the self insert crowd. The majority of genre fiction isn't made up of novels, regardless of what they're called and marketed as.

>>23129496
sorry, you'll need to post some credentials before I'll listen to your advice

>>23129830
probably shouldn’t have come to an anonymous senegalese origami crafting forum then.

>>23129872
I just don't come here for advice, it's fine for entertainment purposes

Guys, I'm not too sure whether adding "airships" to my story will feel right. The idea behind it is that gods from the past built a lot of advanced technology that the current humans have no idea how they operate but have still learned to use. How do I know if something is necessary for a story or if it's being added just because it's cool? I know it's a vague question but I still can't tell if I'm adding to much fluff to the story.

My gut is that if I'm hesitant or doubting it, it's because it's probably not necessary for the story

>>23129913
A good policy. Most of the people here can barely read, let alone write, so it’s amusing to watch them pretend to have proficiency in either.

>>23129921
What would you have if not airships?

>>23129926
Not too sure. As of now I can't think of a replacement, if there is one

>>23129963
Airships are a common thing for gods. The Hindu had Vimanas, Christians the throne, and it all ties with Zecharia Sitchin’s “Chariots of the Gods” and ancient aliens.

>>23129921
Analyze what affect that technologuly has on society, how it impacts information transfer, warfare, agriculture, cities, etc, and how those affect your story and characters. Because any "foreign" ideas disconnected from the rest can result in plot holes.
Also, a quote to keep in mind: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic” - Arthur C. Clarke

>>23129830
You listen to advice when it is logically sound, based on technical, relevant facts, and the effects at any time possible to demonstrate in practice.

Or, if you have no fucking idea what you're doing, you ask for credentials.

>>23130022
Every generation and society thinks they are the last one and that the end of the world is imminent.

>>23130031
I, an enlightened consumer of writing advice, only listen to published authors.

>>23130057
why are YA book covers so boring

>>23130135
corpo can't let anything that isn't cookie-cutter hit the shelves

>>23130031
Except writing isn't an engineering subject with clear evidence and facts to point to. The vast majority of writing advice is entirely subjective, not objective. Because it's an art.
So if I'm getting subjective opinions/suggestions/advice from someone, it's not going to be from some retarded 4chan anon who, for all I know, neither reads nor writes, much less has any success in the field.
There are two types of advice I'll further make my point on:
1. Generalized advice like how to plot and develop characters. Why wouldn't you find an author you like and see what they have to say? Why come to an anonymous forum? Just pure retardation
2. Specific advice on your own work. Presumably, if you gave it your best effort, you thought you did things right. So when someone says "I don't like this, you should have done that", you want it to come from someone you can trust in some way (credentials) because otherwise, by the nature of what ADVICE and FEEDBACK literally are, they're disagreeing with you. So you need to set aside your current beliefs and trust in the experts. This is how human learning works. Many if not most complicated things in life aren't purely intuitive. You trust the experts. Do none of you have degrees? Learned any complicated skill whether educational or mechanical where your monkey brain goes 'wait, but this feels right, why isn't it right'?

>>23130057
If your goal is to write queer books for a queer audience, yeah, you should listen to published authors in that field.
The thing about credentials is that they're specific to something.
You should find people successful in a way you want to be successful, and get advice from them. In whatever form of writing that may be.

You morons are really something else. Feel like I'm typing out the most obvious shit in the world, so I can only assume I'm being trolled. Unless I get an actually meaningful reply that isn't continued retardation, I'll let you stew in your perpetual lack of success.

>>23128409
I think a broad range of perspectives are important, and there's plenty of anons who'd like to get published as well so they've also got the idea on their minds
>>23128500
I have, and I agree with >>23128508
I think a big part of the appeal to the average reader that picks them up is their veneration as classics. However, I also recognize that in a way I compete with them for someone who is interested in that style and wants to pick them up.
>>23129188
That's true regarding Bridgerton. Hopefully I'd do well enough that it doesn't feel discount-y. And yeah, I hope the spin helps. I worry that it'll be too romantic for the average fantasy reader and too fantasy for the average romance reader. I'm still writing it regardless because I think it's good, but making money from writing would of course be a blessing.

>>23130057
This looks kinda gay.

>>23130195
>The thing about credentials is that they're specific to something. You should find people successful in a way you want to be successful, and get advice from them. In whatever form of writing that may be.
You're stuck in the frame of "success" being solely "getting published as an author and selling books", but that's not true for everyone. As for credentials: in any domain, credentials are a lazy assessment of competence. Acquiring credentials is impacted as much by location, timing, networking, socioeconomic status, and institutional gatekeeping as by actual competence. Otherwise the world wouldn't be teeming with garbage art and charlatans. Good writing is good writing, that's that.

>>23130291
>successful in a way you want to be successful
>you assume published and selling books
So you really are just a retard, huh?

>>23130333
I just know what good writing is, anon.

>>23130195
NTA but while it's true that I usually don't take the suggestions I get here seriously (as in what I should do to fix a perceived problem), I will post my work to get a feel for how its generally received. The same thing that published authors do with beta readers.

Emulation and study of authors I like has been far more useful than any critique or advice from these threads but I like to use these threads to validate if I'm heading in the right direction or not.

>>23130383
You absolute dipshit, I'm saying that 'success in a way you want to be successful' implies you can define it however you want. If you want to define that as 'has good writing', then take advice from authors you think have good writing. Publishing has nothing to do with that
Fuck, you are genuinely a mouthbreather, aren't you?

>>23130383
>These are the anons who are convinced they'll write the next great American novel
Grim

>>23130420
>If you want to define that as 'has good writing', then take advice from authors you think have good writing.
So we agree that good writing is good writing.

>>23130451
Nobody is this retarded, so to you I say, well done, troll! You got me

>>23130135
How are those boring? How could they possibly be wilder?

Finished my first short story, would appreciate feedback. It's genre fiction
https://mega.nz/file/hpghxBwI#7gbi2cvW9aSFDOazz51sr-QFrfcfVWKGUqGoR52QRv0

>>23130195
>Except writing isn't an engineering subject with clear evidence and facts to point to.
Language does have certain rules and established conventions that apply to everyone. Most people here struggle already with assembling a functional sentence, it's far too soon to speak of "art".

Writing is, in many ways, similar to engineering and requires technical skill. Beside correct language, written works must meet certain structural goals in order to be understood. If you're building a house and I point out I can't enter it because it's missing a door, that's not a matter of art anymore.

>>23130561
>wilder
it's not about "wildness", retard - almost all of them are in very similar art styles and oversaturated color palettes. you instantly know they're YA just by looking at them.

i don't hate third from the top right or the two farthest on the middle right. would love to see some originality, though.

>>23130674
>you instantly know they're YA just by looking at them
That's the goal, retard.

>>23130715
the creatures who post on this thread are something else, aren't they?

>>23130594
I don't disagree, but it feels like you're ignoring the main point to nitpick a smaller one. Obviously the post wasn't about spelling and grammar. General structure is a more interesting point, but even some famous novels have bizarre structure (Finnegan's Wake, to use the most obvious example), so even that is subjective and not a rule as you suggest.

>>23129633
Fair enough. I shouldn't have stapled that introduction on. It was an afterthought, and I felt it would be a neat contrast. I'm doing some chapter rewrites with this in mind. I can accept this feedback because it is at least specific and direct. I've cut that section entirely and am rewriting it.
>>23128929
Appreciate it. I could include that, but I am worried that introduction just makes things more confusing. Referencing it again will just compound the problem. It was planned as an introduction to create a sense of contrast. The kid won't be relevant now or later, so I think it's best to scrap it.

>>23130940
>so even that is subjective and not a rule as you suggest
You are being flexible with points that are rigid, and inflexible with points that vary based on the context. Is there any purpose to this conversation other than to disagree with everything said?

>>23130968
>>23130968
>>23130968

>>23130962
What points am I being inflexible with? That you should always listen to experts over anonymous retards? Yeah I'm gonna stay firm on that one

>>23130940
Does an architect begin with advanced projects and avant-garde designs? No, he must learn the essentials of his trade. He has to study what works and what doesn't. This is why so many books, poems, and songs are crap lately. No one wants to learn the rules before they flagrantly break them.

>>23130992
I love the people who come into discussions and just say random shit unrelated to what's actually being talked about. Go away retard

>>23130581
Not bad. Not great, either. The dialogue is trash. They all have a distinctly unnatural and expositional way of speaking. Overall, seems like babby's first attempt at surrealism. The setting and the imagery are distinctly unreal but the story itself lacks absurdity; it's a fairly generic arc plot (bad guy turns good).
But it's not bad. It kept me reading. Seems like you've got a lot of creative ideas and my only real advice is to go hog-wild with it.
I have some media recommendations. Ancient Evenings, a novel by Norman Mailer, uses a soul's journey into the afterlife as a framing device. It's excellent if you're not squeamish about sex, gore, and gross stuff. That book, and a point-and-click adventure game called Zelle on Steam, which is also about a soul's journey through the afterlife. Great if you like retro-style games.

>>23130022
checked

>>23131029
Thanks! I do need to work on my dialogue. I’ll check out that stuff

wow, look at this pile of crap: https://files.catbox.moe/d9sukc.zip