/lit/ - Literature

>>23098463
no, i will be starting one shortly

>>23098463
Essentially, art and culture are dead. Elon Musk and his Jew masters will put chips into your brain and control you. You will be cattle. This is how humanity ends.

>>23098463
artistic movements my ass

>>23098472
i'll make an artistic movement in your ass, cutie.

>>23098472
Your mom showed me some good artistic movements last night

Its weird that you use pound and ask this question.
I thought it would be funny to start a poetry movement called "the sons of pound" that is basically poetry performed by pol tards. Or rather what if you could capture the /lit/ /pol/ culture into a movement that rebukes the modern death grip the rupi kaurs, liberals, diversity squad, who do nothing but affirm their hubris and liberal bias

>>23098477
no one on 4chan has talent

>>23098477
You're as bad as the libtards.

>>23098477
>"the sons of pound"
gay

>>23098477
i'll pound your son, cutie.

>>23098494
You shall be named "Dickinson'

>>23098463
Art is a thing of the past. Culture is dead.

>>23098488
To be frank there was in fact a group named "the sons of Ben" by historians of literature, as in, the followers of Ben Jonson, so it wouldn't be the first.

>>23098477
That strain of thought is kinda interesting to me because obviously it never would have stood a chance, and still wouldn't stand a chance now, in the realm of professional publishing for obvious reasons, but also the zeitgeist nowadays has basically been completely conquered by it, almost exclusively to the detriment of the professional sphere's influence. Ideas unthinkable ten years ago, or authors exiled for their political views seem to have become completely normalized and commonly discussed nowadays, while the neoliberal, feel-good liberalism of the post-cold war era, or the bourgeois campus marxism of the generation of 68 and their children has become completely discredited and cast onto the trash heap of ideas in the eyes of the non-elites. There is a strange contradiction between the mainstream exclusion of intellectual chudhood and its restauration and renaissance in the sphere of public discourse. Who gave a single fuck about de Maistre or Spengler fifteen years ago outside of specialists? Who knew who the fuck Jünger was before 2010, or took seriously what Schmitt said about liberal democracies? On the contrary, the stars of Fukuyama or Marcuse have never sunk lower than right now.

>>23098470
>art and culture are dead
This might be a weird take but memes are a big example that art and culture isn't dead and it's still evolving. You could compare certain periods of memes to the artistic movements of back in the day, thing is that most memes nowadays last a year max compared to 10+ years of artistic movements. There are even regional memes which can't be translated if you don't understand the culture there or even the language. Memes are also the wild west of culture since the topic has been barely explored yet.

Unironically, memes are the future of art. The art of memes is still in it's infancy or even it's fetal phase though. Give memes around two dozens of years and it's going to become a serious form of artistic expression and studying memetics is going to become commonplace.

AI can write stories and songs, paint, make movies, but it can barely do situational humor based on the current reality with a touch of art and soul added into it.

>>23098912
memes are utter horse shit, they are the most base form of entertainment. This is like claiming shakespeare was alive and well in the 90s because of seinfeld

>>23098470
No; decadence , imperialism and never ending cycle of war is how a civilization ends and empires fall.

>>23098463
"instapoetry" a la rupi kaur is one from the last decade or so. just because it's complete dog shit doesn't change the fact that it's happening. this guy (>>23098912) talking about memes becoming art is a great example

there are still and will continue to be artistic movements. history just will not look back fondly on the ones occurring in the internet age

>>23098463
They always were (and are). Genuine artistic movements are defined in hindsight. You can get a group together and start working on something knew, but it won't be a movement until it is all said and done.

More like "artistic movements are mostly only recognized when looking back to the past"

>>23099041
Kind of like how it wasn't Napoleon who made history, but the historians who wrote about him. Historiography makes history, not the subjects of historiography. Also similar to that theory of Barthes that the true author of a literary work is the reader rather than the author, because "art" or "history" only happens after the act of interpretation, never before.

>>23099056
>Historiography makes history, not the subjects of historiography.
Yes, in general, but there are some true examples of Great Men like Napoleon and Skanderbeg

>>23099065
It does seem to me like a bad analogy just because, even of no one ever recorded the history of certain great men, their deeds would have left a mark that was obvious enough to follow as a kind of history. I don't necessarily think the same thing is true for art and art movements. Its nearly impossible to actually nail down historical turning point of artistic expression objectively, and you need someone to give a name and categorical boundaries to a movement where men are singular entities already.

>>23098463
Don’t take that ‘movement’ stuff too seriously. I don’t think half the ones people talk about are a movement at all, just a lot of writers, and movements are a bad thing these days anyway. We ought to either write all the same or all differently.

>>23098463
Moving into an age where tastes are going to be "perfectly" algorithmically determined, even more so with people who have been catered to from am early age, art movements have no reason to exist. Why rebel or change when all your need are all being matched enough to keep you content and in a perpetual stage of media fueled ecstasy? You can already see this today with the general brain deadness most of us have, with such imperfect algorithms and no real generative AIs in the game yet.

>>23098463
There is too much competition on what way of thought is overcoming postmodernism. So write now the style that best reflects contemporary perspectives is not clear. There's at least hypermodernism and metamodernism, but they are barely coherent. They don't capture enough of how people really feel.

>>23098463
there's lots of movements, like when you nail one of your feet into the ground and try to run.
https://rumble.com/v2zn8qm-retro-degeneracy-resurgence.html

>>23099132
are you satisfied with the algorithms? do you believe everyone is? do you believe everyone will be?

>>23098463
I just left a pretty sloppy artistic movement in the toilet.

>>23098482
>no one on 4chan has talent
Projection at its finest.

>>23098973
>memes are utter horse shit
Because they're still in their infancy. But you can't deny that they've had a very impact on the popular culture of today.

It's like calling caveman paintings or some cliche peasant tales about dragons from thousands of years ago horseshit. Well, no shit they were probably bad compared to their modern and mature counterparts.

>>23099353
nah this is a dumb point man

>>23099376
>provides zero explanation why
thanks for not trying to refute my point m'wit

>>23099523
Nah...this is like "Illiad is marvel" level. Its not really my job to refute you anyway. Im not the guy you're talking to

>>23098973
>>23099353
Do you guys know what memes actually are? Cause they're not just
>muh popular ironic image joke on internet
Look up the definition

>>23098912
Memes are just extremely dumbed comics. They aren't something mew.

>>23098463
Is shitty Mexican music an artistic movement?
Maybe there are still artistic movements, but they're all shit.

>>23099527
muh Richard Dawkins
You didn't read that book either

>>23098463
They still exist but are increasingly short-lived and fragmented, and are less influential than they were in the 20th century. Also I think some people approach them with skepticism now. Writing manifestos is cringe.

don’t ya love how “underrepresented” groups are the only groups represented in contemporary poetry? hey ez?

>>23099300
I could say I ain't, but then again, I'm still hypnotized day in day out, the smartphone is always by my side, and even though at this point I barely watch anything, so are the multiple, daily social media checks.
The nature of how they work currently forces them to be generic, and just a kinda dumb curator, but in the future, if the dream of those who tout for current ML generators comes true, you'll have your fill of perfectly catered generated content, whether it's the best of the best I don't think it's relevant for most, just needs to be good enough.
Not everyone will be satisfied or will actually be a slave to these dynamics, but does it really matter if they keep a strangle hold on society at large? Underground groups always existed and always will but what chance do they have of having any relevance when such powerful algorithms dominate the public mind? And I don't see things going any other direction when better generative algorithms or AIs fully enter the mix.
As an aside, I've heard a lot of people say that the ideal way of consuming a product is to ignore the biography of the author(can you say it like this in english?)completely and just judge the work in and of itself, AIs are the perfect candidate for this, since they effectively bring the death of the author.

>>23098463
Is weebshit an artistic movement?

Yeah, they’re a feature of early and middle modernity exclusively. We are in late modernity and as such are after both art and mass movements.

>>23099643
>you'll have your fill of perfectly catered generated content
What does this even look like though? I feel like there's an underlying assumption to this that if a movie (for instance) begins with a flashback and has a chase scene with x number of explosions and a romantic subplot that takes up whatever percentage of screen time then it will be perfect for such and such person. But that's not how it works. There's a lot at play beyond the art itself that determines how much a person enjoys it, and I think in general the attitude of normal people is that watching machine-generated content is stupid, corny, and a waste of time. Hard to really fall under the spell when that's your attitude going in.

>>23098912
>>AI can write stories and songs, paint, make movies, but it can barely do situational humor based on the current reality with a touch of art and soul added into it.
For now, and the younger the people are, the more their lives are shaped by the internet and its culture.
In a couple of decades there will probably be barely any social life outside of internet connected devices, AIs have complete access to the virtual space, and algorithms almost completely dominate this space.
Memes are the two same jokes repeated ad nauseam for months on end, not exactly complex works of logic or artistic thoughts and processes, not the thing I would strive for personally for the future of culture.
>>23099675
perfect in the sense of individual marketability, to the extent that your "cookies" and the ability of the AIs to extrapolate useful data from them.
Not all will be seduced by the endless stream of humanless entertainment, but just look at today's situation, where things are much less severe in this sense, the algorithm of subpar content that's just good enough works for most.
I think the only thing preventing this future to happen with complete global saturation is the need for people of the human connection within any work, starting from the author, and shareability of such products, since by the nature of individually catered AI work, even if perfect to your tastes, can't be shared as an experience and discussed with anybody else.

>>23098912
I agree in part but a lot of memes are flash in the pan viral and aren't stable enough to produce an art movement. Sure, Pepe, Chad, and basedjack have been with us for over a decade but no one can really take ownership of them, and Pepe was made by someone before it became a meme.
Look what happened when redditors made a trollface comic generator. If we define other mediums as art, you can tell there are still art movements within them.

>>23099718
>the algorithm of subpar content that's just good enough
But this stuff is still made by people. Yeah, it isn't "individually tailored" to your tastes but I think you're greatly overestimating the value of that. Maybe this is an outdated way of thinking, but the connection one feels with an artist or with other fans is just as important as the raw content of a work itself. And as you say, people want to be able to share and talk about the stuff the like (or dislike).

>>23098470
It's already here.

>>23098973
>memes are utter horse shit, they are the most base form of entertainment
You're entirely wrong. Memes are 4g/5g warfare. This fits the model of what art was, especially during Pound's era. You should check out the interactions between futurism and Italian fascism, just as one example.
>>23099353
>Because they're still in their infancy
This is also wrong. Everything moves much faster now, I would say that we're in a bit of a lull, maybe even a dark age, for memes. But we're seeing bits of light pop up. Just wait, "golden age 2" for memes is coming soon.

>>23098463
No. We're currently in the jewish tranny movement. Where artists cut their dicks off for a shot at publishing.

>>23098477
Do it dude

>>23098477
This sounds so fucking faggy but I respect it.
>>23098463
Artistic movements cannot exist anymore because due to the social media fast-food culture of the western world everyone's only interested in gratifying their own ego or larping as their favourite artist from the past, like when Waldun and his gay friends tried to convince the world they were reviving the beat generation.
There is just no unity anymore. Publishing is also incredibly corporate and doesn't encourage community, because if an asscioated artist commits negative-think, you'll be pulled into the crossfire as well. #The only artistic movements I've personally seen to exist are music scenes, as traditionally music is a collaborative effort. Although even still I'd hardly compare these movements to anything that came before

>>23101147
I think its because organically meeting people is hard as shit now and you see its effects everywhere. Less movements less creation less friends less sex. Nobody really goes to the Cafe or some other random public space equivalent to a Roman forum and if they they come with phones. Even college fails to bring people together in my experience. Even pre covid most of my school was just holed up in their rooms.
So now we have a fuck ton of lonely adults, incels, a dearth of art, nobody can get anything off the ground and the big culture machine keeps churning keeping people just entertained enough

>>23098469
can I join?

>>23101147
>>23101167

I suspect you are idealizing a past which does not exist. The reason that there is no culture is that there are is no person of ability who has dedicated himself to creating it

>>23098463
I'm the vanguard of a new literary movement arising from the disaffected young men of modern Australia. We speak for all those shut out of the economy and society of this prison island. We are the Beatniks but without the Americana and homosexuality. We are Houllebecq but without the French pervert mentality. We are Bukowski but with a bigger emotional range. We are the future of literature. Get on the bandwagon now or be left behind.

>>23098477
He is Ezra who sewed great seed
On pages of white, see his heart bleed
You see for some time
He had no master in rhyme
And became a hero to those who post sneed

>>23101276
What past am I possibly idealizing. I'm just making observations here about how tech has changed things

>>23101276
>*blocks your path*

>>23101384
Have you considered moving to the outback and living a nomadic lifestyle like an old school abbo? They did that for millenia and it worked pretty well for them.

>Nnnnoo! I don't want to be naked in the desert and hunt kangaroos!

Calling another culture inferior is VERY problematic and if that's the way you think you should be ashamed of yourself, mister.

>>23098463
Yes. Artistic movements and the internet aren't compatible. The fashion cycle is too fast and strong.

>>23098463
They're just not a thing of "right now"
Just wait til the 2070s