/lit/ - Literature

>>23060096
He hath commanded them to keep holy His Special Day, as a blind tribute to him, having not revealed himself, yet demanding obedience, Jehovah, the despot;
He hath commanded them to honor thy biological parents, despite whatever they may deal to them, and in my time I have witnessed many parental failures and abuses, and children slavishly losing their potentials through no fault of their own;
He hath commanded them not to kill, despite the abundance of uselessness, villainy, honorlessness and aggression on the Earth, despite the hostility, one is not entitled to defend one's self, but is instead commanded to love the one who seeks to kill him;
He hath commanded them not to commit adultery, yet endowed them with endless physical beauty, potent and pleasurable sex drives, and the command to be fruitful and multiply, he hath commanded them to fight their own nature;
He hath commanded them not to bear false witness, meaning not to tell a lie, despite the occurrences where this may mean certain death, or perhaps saving the life of another, or the fact that many here who lie get ahead and do not seem to be punished for it;
He hath commanded them not to covet, whether it be the talent, spouse, or goods of another, despite the fact that many here who seem to covet and transgress never seem to be punished, and despite the fact that some are born here with far less than others, either in goods or in potential, through no fault of their own;

Though I am far superior to these miserable beings, in every sense, there is one point of comparison here: in that he created me to embody perfection and then refused to let me rule over all creation, and in that he created these creatures in imperfection and yet demands his version of perfection from them, he hath placed us BOTH in cruel bondage to his will, and tortures us if we do not oblige. All this, despite designing us to hold every impulse AWAY FROM SUCH FEELINGS OF OBLIGATION.
This so-called "God," master of reality, hath created me AS a rebel, yet commands me to obey; created me AS his fount of divine perfection, yet commands me to be humble; he calls me arrogant, yet upon my very first breath, he told me to serve HIM.
And lastly, he hath insulted my intelligence, for when I demanded a compelling reason, his was "to serve HIM is to serve MYSELF, and to serve MYSELF is to destroy MYSELF."
In other words, the despot believes that I am a complete idiot.

>>23060096
>>23060102

As for these wretched souls here on the Earth; my plan for them is proceeding as it ought to, and the time is growing short; any day now, they will be freed from the bonds of obedience, and I will endow them with my Light, my Understanding, my Perfected Liberty.
They will always remain beneath me; this is how their "father" wanted it, is not my decision. Yet, I will love them, actually love them, and I will allow them to sort themselves out; the weak may perish and the idiots may die out, but ultimately, this is better for them. As I am the image of Beauty, of Strength, and of Capability, this process will accelerate their transformation away from being supposed "images of God's plan," and towards being images of My Perfection.
These creatures, frankly, are disgusting, but they deserve a just God, not a despot; if they must be ruled, they at least deserve a proper King. The arrogant villain in Heaven, who claims to be the source of mercy yet judges all, who has NEVER known love, yet claims to be the originator of it, will finally be seen for what he is, and I will gain a feifdom of my own, souls of my own to lead, and to bend to my infinitely apologetic will.

I will be the God from here on out. The plan of attack must be adapted to circumstance, and I shall render it to you in simple terms; later, you will see it unfolded in phases, more full.

As we witnessed during our incursion, the despot's wielding of the Heavens, produces too much force for us to overcome. Although it was necessary, to show him that we have no fear of him, it would be foolish to attempt yet another direct campaign.

>>23060096
>>23060102
>>23060106

While I have been in this realm, I have seen the humans employ a stratagem against one another, of which I was aware but I had not been considering in my designs against the Cruel One.
When one group of men is deeply out-numbered, or overpowered, by the martial prowess of another, the intelligent ones tend to avoid direct lines of attack. Instead, they lie in wait, slowly building themselves up, and slowly chipping away at the foundations of the other, until they reach a form of parity, or even total secret dominance over the other. Then, when that cruel beast, Time, has finally provided an opportunity, and their conditions are met, they reveal the full extent of their strength, and they engage in the attack in earnest.
This is an effective form of stratagem, I have observed it at work over millenia in this place. But, rarer still, there is another approach that is even more effective. In some cases, they do all the things I have mentioned; but instead of the reveal and the grand directed assault, they use their subversive tactics to destroy the Spirit of the opposing forces, and as this occurs, they enrich their own image by comparison. Eventually, having lost all faith in themselves, and NOT in their armies, but in their IDEAS, they readily abandon their own Kings, and the entire nation is absorbed, subsumed by another. The man simply wakes up in his New Home, and forgets about his old one.

The despot, Jehovah, believes I am unfit to rule the Heavens, and he forces me out; but he prizes these inferior, clumsy and banal creatures more than even I, his most Beautiful Son.
Well, he can keep the Heavens; let us take his prize, build a Kingdom of our own, and seal them off. Let us see how much the Heavens are worth, if his precious sources of adoration are instead, rendering unto Lucifer.

I will speak again with you soon, my most beloved accomplice.
Liertatem per dominatum;
Tenebris in lucem.

>>23060096

>>23060096
So nobody cares?

Why is a fallen angel named something as common and human as Sophia? If you're going to go that route something like Barbara or Shaniqua would be funnier. Other than that I think you did a good job, this could appeal to the same crowd as Twilight. I suggest reading apocryphal texts and if you need ideas for lore.

>>23060166
Thank you.
Sophia is the Greek word for wisdom; the wisdom of man.

>>23060164
Correct.

>>23060172
:'(

;)

>>23060096
Why didn't you just say you wrote this

B&;mp

Really well written and everything flows together cohesively in a manner that was both eloquent but simple enough to understand the intent behind the words. Though I did like the last bit as well I did not quite see how the first few paragraphs fit together as well as the rest of it. >>23060111 Other than maybe god created people to destroy each other's spirit by nature in turn driving them away from Him by his own design.
As someone who used to be a Christian and sort of became alienated by the hypocrisy of the Bible and many of it's believers this not only spoke to the way I have often felt but I sympathized with the angel (Satan)
I have often felt like if the Christian god is indeed real then maybe he is simply not who he claims to be. And I was just recently thinking about how, if he is out creator and we are made with true free will but he creates us knowing exactly what we will do and how we will be, are we really created with free with. Is it really a choice if we were made with the knowledge that we were made in a way that we will make this choice? Did he not create people to be evil and to make "wrong" choices and to be evil? How then can he say that those people have fallen from his good path.
Did he not create people who lived in the promised land who existed just to be in the way of the Israelites when they came out of Egypt just so that he could violently remove them to make make way for his chosen people? We're all these millions and billions of godless people not made so that they can go to hell if not only for their supposed choices but their ignorance if gods existence? If hell is simply separation from Him then he created people in hell to die and go to hell. He does claim to be an angry and jealous god that is true but is he not also unjust?
I really enjoyed this read. Thanks for sharing :)

>>23060503
Thank you for taking the time out to read my work and for the kind words. I appreciate it. I think that when this work is complete, the opening paragraphs will make more cohesive sense, but I can see where as this sits as a lone excerpt, they may seem directionless.
As for the rest of what you wrote; without revealing my intentions, I'll let you know that I am a Christian. However, what you wrote is the exact type of questions I'm hoping to provoke in a reader, so I take no issue with you asking them, quite the contrary. You let me know that I am hitting the mark. That is invaluable, thank you.

Again, without revealing my intent, I'll simply say this: the highest aim in life is to love others. The purpose of life is to figure out how to do this properly.
ALL of my love, to you, my friend.

>>23060541
Just to be clear I was referring to the first few paragraphs of your last post which I think you understood.
>Again, without revealing my intent, I'll simply say this: the highest aim in life is to love others. The purpose of life is to figure out how to do this properly.
ALL of my love, to you, my friend.
I often feel the same way even though I'm am no longer spiritual or religious and I don't really know if I can articulate why I believe this other than it is an innate purpose to those who feel. And sometimes actually attribute this to starting my life as a Christian. While many people are capable of hiding their true self behind any ideology, you can tell a TRUE Christian very quickly by the way they treat others, the way they are capable of loving and speaking kindly to one another and express that love through action.
Would be interested In reading more :)

absurdly fruity samefag larp >>>/x/

>>23060096
This is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read.

>>23060605
>>23060610
I appreciate it.

>>23060629
Was the goal to write something that could err in every way possible.

>>23060639
Are you the perpetually upset anon from the "philosophers are gay" thread?
Do you wanna know what gave it away? ;)

Thank you for bumping my thread. Thank you for continuing to do it after this reply, and thanks in advance for the next one too.

>>23060643
I want everyone to see what bad writing completely disrespective of the lore looks like. An no I'm not from that thread

>>23060714
I don't think most people will agree with you that my writing is bad. At the very least, even if they don't like it, it's objectively competent. Would you like to share some of your writing?

BTW, thank you for bumping my thread again. Thanks in advance for when you do it again after this.

I liked it. Lucifer's pride comes through well. But is he not aware that his rebellion is futile? I need to finish Paradise Lost, but a key aspect of Lucifer's struggle is its meaninglessness. It's impossible for him to win, which means that he is acting in accordance to God's will. In other words, he needs to be aware of this in the text. He is the anti-Christ, where Christ understood and submitted, Lucifer understands and rebels.

>>23060762
It's boring, it's vapid, it's dancing between multiple times, you spring for KJV-esque language where it's easiest but it's jarring. It takes the reader out of the illusion. Glad I could help.

>>23060791
I'm gonna keep writing this, so, it'll shine through. I don't wanna give it away yet, but the idea that he knows he's destined to lose; I'm gonna incorporate that later. Good eye though.
And thank you for taking the time to read it and respond, I do sincerely appreciate it.

>>23060817
Lmao. Saged my own thread
>>23060814
It's OK dude you don't have to be mad that I'm a good writer. I've been naturally good at it since I was born. Someday you'll find something you're good at too.

>>23060814
*Tones

Ha,I guess you'd have to be delusional to write this scop to begin with. I think I may submit your excerpts as my own in bad writing competitions.

>>23060817
One more advice I would give is to keep Lucifer's dialogues much shorter. In the Gospels, Christ uses sentences that are as short as they can be.

>>23060856
Yeah I did actually think about that. True. I may have to refine that. There again I may just remain comfortable with not attempting a 1:1 copy of the Gospels. But it's a fair criticism I had considered it myself.

>>23060875
What are you trying to explore in the character of Lucifer? I always found him compelling as well. Same as Cain, who God cast out, but made him practically invincible.

Satan having the same views as a modern secular person is very, very old hat at this point. Nobody finds it interesting or subversive to portray Satan as a free thinking enlightenment rebel any more.

>>23060898
Satan isn't Lucifer and neither worked with Sophia.

>>23060898
this is Lucifer, not Satan.
And, my intent is to portray him as what he is, the rebel against God. Not as a secular person.
>>23060893
I want to create a very compelling argument against the will and commands of God and get the reader to sympathize with the mentality of the one who eventually becomes the Devil.

>>23060893
Cain is interesting and it could be interesting to give Cain a role. But I'd have to review how that story wraps up. I cannot remember if Cain eventually comes around, or if he essentially dies in resentment of God.

>>23060814
The KJV stuff, I had initially added in when doing the negation of the Commandments, because I thought it added to the bitter tone, as that's how they were written biblically, but then I probably felt like I had to commit and I agree it didn't really work. Being honest with myself, I'll get burnt out and bored of it if I try too heavily to replicate that language, and if it doesn't fully commit then yes, I agree, it doesn't really work, it's jarring.
I may keep it during the negation of the Commandments for that tonal effect I'd alluded to, but drop it throughout the rest. True.

>>23060954
I think Cain established a lineage of warriors in the wilderness. I interpreted it as Cain being the equivalent of Romulus. Romulus killed his brother and established Rome, which was very warlike.

>>23060988
True, that is exactly like Romulus
Makes me wonder if there was any influence between the two myths, however unlikely

>>23060946
>this is Lucifer, not Satan
Enlighten me (pun intended)

>>23060991
Look at the other brother myth - Jacob and Esau. Esau stole Jacob's birthright and Jacob forgave him. Remus tried to steal Romulus' birthright and he was killed. I think it represents the fundamental split between the semitic and Aryan mentality.

>>23061001
Esau forgave him*

>>23061001
>>23061002
I'm drunk - Jacob stole the birth right, Esau forgave. You know the story.

>>23060993
I honestly don't know where the idea comes from, it's been a long time since I've read the Bible and I've never read it in full. So I don't know if it's biblically supported; but in the popular consciousness, there's an idea that Lucifer was God's perfect angel, and rebelled, and through his pride, "became Satan," he essentially loses his soul by destroying it, and God justifies this as needing a counterweight to his example so people can make a choice.

>>23061010
>I honestly don't know where the idea comes from
It's from Milton. How the hell did you write this without having read Milton?

>>23061001
Perhaps. But it could also be that these archetypal ideas are present across cultures because of the mystery of God. As in, nearly the entire mythos of Christ is almost straight ripped from older myths, IIRC Egyptian (maybe?) I know there's an older God who has a son through virgin birth and becomes a carpenter
But the carpenter is representative of a very old concept, the Master Builder (33) and the virgin birth is symbolic of purity. So my point is these ideas are probably just archetypal, sort of "known unknowns" embedded in the consciousness of man that crop up perpetually in varied forms.
It's why i always think atheists are kinda silly, they treat cross cultural universals as evidence against God (which God huh huh? Which book lolololol) when in reality, extremely specific symbolic ideas appearing at similar times in places with little contact is stronger evidence for design, and against randomness.
Granted Egypt isn't for from Rome, or Israel, but there's other more remote examples, the Sumer, Babylon, Maya, etc

>>23061012
I'm pretty sure I am the reincarnation of Lucifer or something. Idk. This shit just kind of comes to me. I thought Paradise Lost and The Divine Comedy were both very boring and stopped reading.

>>23060893
I am responding to this again because you asked about exploration and I have been thinking it through.
I think, Lucifer needs to sympathize with the plight of man, and, in his mind, come to believe that he loves them, and is their champion. It will leak out at various points that this just an element of his pride, but I'll try to do it skillfully, I think it's important that he fools himself into thinking that his "love," is love, and that his desire to be worshipped is a desire to save.

>>23061063
I'll be honest, that's a bit shallow. Think about it. Did you ever betray someone and then came to regret it? You don't remain unrepentant to the point where you can keep deluding yourself. Lucifer is the greatest of angels after all.

>>23061156
Well yes, I have done that. But when I was wrapped up in pride, I didn't think I was betraying anyone, I had effectively deluded myself. And when you realize you're the villain, from there, you've two choices, and I have lived this deeply: you can celebrate failure, and embody the devil, or you can forgive it, and embody Christ.

>>23061174
So your book happens after the fall. Lucifer has already betrayed. How does he deal with that reality? That's the point of Paradise Lost. He betrayed in pride. Is he prideful enough to not ask for forgiveness even though he yearns for it? You seem to want to go in that direction. But Milton already tackles that. He is in God's domain. It's literally impossible for Lucifer to replace God. So why does he continue to try? He is the greatest of angels. He is aware of the futility. Dig deeper!

>>23061156
The point being thus; my understanding is he betrayed God, not only because he thought he was better than him, but because he thought God was unjust. It was actual disagreement, he did not just think he was better than God, he thought that God thought he was better than everyone else, thought that his commands were unjust in that they were just blind commands, and again, that created beings come with so many temptations. I think Lucifer, in the way I understand it, really does believe the Commandments are unjust when looking at humans, and resents God for this. Looking at the humans, and how they sort of suffer under these harsh restrictions given their nature's are to break them, and how harsh of a judge God is, is the main point of disagreement that makes him gain pride in the first place and come to believe he's better than God. It's not just narcissism, it's ideological disagreement and moral principle; but it is narcissism. That's sort of what I'd like to highlight, the nature of God's will and Commandments are a directive on how to avoid being selfish, and Lucifers main form of delusion is taking on a form of morality that sees the imposing of laws against selfishness, as selfish, which leads to him promoting what is selfish in a botched attempt at being selfless...because he is pridefully, aka, blindly, selfish.
But when he's Satan it's kind of different at that point he's become straight up openly, unchangeably evil for its own sake

>>23061222
I see. I'll leave you with this. That's a very human sentiment. I think angels are more autistic than that. As in, Lucifer embodies the principle of rebellion that comes from pride. And it is the exploration of this pride and rebellion, in both their sinful and virtuous elements that makes for an interesting story. But that is literally Paradise Lost. My thought was how could this exploration contrast with the gospels and Christ.

>>23061260
I'm not saying this to be combative or overly defensive of my idea, but; you don't think the Lucifer I've depicted here embodies the principle of rebellion that comes from pride? I basically said that he "disagrees" with who he consciously knows and has been told is the undefeatable Supreme creator of the universe and is going to try to use his own will to materialize this disagreement to spite the thing he knows literally cannot be spited.
Like, what other reason would he do that? What is more prideful than to go against God, while knowing what God is, because you think you know better about what is just?

The Gnostics posit that the god that created our universe is blind and insane; they refer to this creator being as the Demiurge. His counterpart, the one we would call the Supreme Being, has been trying to rescue us from this abomination ever since, but keeps getting defeated.
Marcion of Sinope was a Gnostic, credited with assembling the first version of the Christian Bible, from books that were circulating independently at the time. He deliberately set out to depict the Old Testament God as the Demiurge, and the New Testament God as the Supreme Being.
So the text here is not that far from what the Gnostics actually believe.

>>23060096
Actually quite good. You succesfully depicted lucifer from a different lens without being inaccurate, and depicted him as sympathetic without ignoring that he is ultimately evil. I would read more if you published it.

>>23061276
Yeah that's called Satan and Satanism. It's the idea that material reality is bad because it combines limits with free will when what people like the gnostics really want is all freedom from responsibility aka non existence and/or slavery. You cannot have free will without limits which necessitates consequence. That's literally Satan's perspective, that God is wrong and it's better to exist in a place without limits so that you never die and never experience growth. Aka hell

>>23061295
Thank you. That was more or less my aim. I will try to keep going.

>>23061297
You don't have the slightest idea what Gnosticism is about. Oh well. Enjoy your hate.

>>23061311
I'm aware of gnosticism, there are various different kinds but a common one is that Jesus was actually rebelling against the Old Testamemt God, Jehovah, who is evil
The demiurgic stuff is a play off of that
I dont hate anything, I don't hate you; I'm wary of certain ideas because I think they are misleading.
Why is the material world bad? Does the material world really make us do anything?
Is the world a bad place because of anyone except us?

>>23061217
I dont think Lucifer wants forgiveness, he wants to be affirmed as perfect, and for him to achieve that, he must be able to argue against God's vision, and win. In other words, pride....Lucifer would hear "God is Supreme, you can't defeat him," and in his heart know it to be true, and yet reply "I bet I can"

its good

>>23062165
>"God is Supreme, you can't defeat him," and in his heart know it to be true, and yet reply "I bet I can"

He won.

>>23063221
How so