/lit/ - Literature

>>23034530
You can read French now, really?

>>23034537
With a dictionary yes

>>23034545
That's actually impressive. I'll try it as my next project.

>>23034537
You can do this with any language if you're not retarded. Especially if you've already learned a language enough to understand basic grammar structures. Then you already know what to look for.

>>23034571
Well when I say any language I mean shit that doesn't have a comically hard script like Devanagari, Arabic, or Chinese/Japanese, or a really difficult verbal system you're not used to in your native tongue. But something in your own language family is usually piss easy.

>>23034530
fr? might buy this

>>23034579
It’s on libgen

>>23034545
I got to that point in Mandarin with nothing but a dictionary and a dual language copy of The Sea Wolf. I have since forgot 99% of Mandarin but that is mostly because I never used it much beyond that, read some websites and the like and then moved on. I did it just to see if I could learn to read a language that way, originally tried it just with that copy of The Sea Wolf but that was largely fruitless, with and English->Mandarin/Mandarin->English dictionary I made quick progress.
>>23034571
>Especially if you've already learned a language enough to understand basic grammar structures.
Even moreso if you learn your first language beyond the basics and go to the descriptive. You get a good grasp on the descriptive and learning languages becomes easy.

I can confirm it works but it took me a hell of a lot longer to get through it than a week
Having finished the textbook I do not doubt your claim at all but to be able to do it in a week would take an incredible amount of stamina and willpower
I burnt out reading this textbook multiple times
Btw just to put this book into perspective
The textbook claims that you will get a vocabulary of 1500 words + a decent ability to recognise cognates once you finish the textbook
You need to be comfortable instantly recognising thousands of more words if you want to read comfortably
The best way to learn to recognise words is through encountering them in your readings which you should do the moment you finish the textbook or even earlier
>>23034579
I think the book is OOP

>>23034530
I started learning french this year with the meme strategy of anki vocab deck + comprehensible input. I'll read this next, but I'm only a month in and French is already an interesting read since there's a lot shared DNA in French and English vocab. Gonna try to read some BDs in a few months.

>>23034617
ok?

>>23034617
I think it works great as a revision book so you will get a lot out of it

The German version of this is bretty gud too fyi. I'm casually reading it since it's been a gorillion years since I last read German grammar and my understanding has been going down. I'm only ~200 pages in and I feel like my grammar, understanding, and retention is better than it was before. Idk what pedagogical tricks they have in these books, but they're fucking effective.

>>23034610
I did basically treat it like a full time job for a week. I would read through it even during lectures. I think this method works best for NEETs though I guess doing it gradually works too.

>>23034530
Might have to check it out. Is there a version for Italian? I already can read basic Italian stuff but looking to hone my skills.

I heard people recommend reading french books on an e-reader since it has a built in dictionary and cuts down on time spent looking shit up. Don't want to hijack this thread but does anyone have any recs for e-readers just for the dictionary function?

>>23034617
I can't stand flash cards. I could see doing it to build core vocab in a language that's very alien to your own, because then you just have to brute force enough "meat and potatoes" words to build up your core.

But with French there's enough cognates and the structures are so similar to English that I'd go mad doing anki. If it's worth anything, the only way I learned French was to just spam myself with input for a couple years and not care even slightly about my progress. I never thought about it. I simply read and consumed French as I felt like it, looking shit up if I needed it. Over time you just need it less and less.

>>23034625
What kind of faggoty reply is this? kys

>>23034723
No unfortunately there is not
I wish there was though because Italian is the next language I plan to learn
>>23034642
It's just a lot of input
I also like how they craft sentences that they know will trip up some readers in order to get them to truly understand what a certain grammar feature or function word does
>>23034741
I have a kindle and I pirated a dictionary from libgen
At least with a kindle, dictionary look-ups are difficult because if there is an elided pronoun or article in front of a word, you won't be able to select just the verb
For example
Je m'achète un livre
It won't give me the dictionary entry for 'achèter'
Also it is just too damn slow to search up words manually on my kindle
When you've a beginner, there will be a ton of verbs that you need to search up and so it becomes impractical to read on an e-reader

>>23034753
>What kind of faggoty reply is this? kys
what did you expect? glowing reviews? fuck off

>>23034786
You won't learn shit with a kindle.

>>23034786
>I wish there was though because Italian is the next language I plan to learn

Check out “Italian in the natural method” I think it was called. It’s available online. Not exactly the same as OP’s book but it is a similar concept where you start with simple passages and learn words as you go.

>>23034786
Have you considered something like lingq? It's basically just google translate that you can input whole texts into, and then flag/unflag words you know/don't know. It also tracks your progress. Which makes it sound shitty but the way everything is woven together is really good, if you're the kind of person who just wants to be able to click shit and get an instant translation.

The nice thing is, people hand annotate the translations and you can highlight phrases, so usually the system has seen every permutation of weird verbs and compounds that you're ever going to come across. It's like how google translate is often better than a dictionary because it can translate whole phrases and chunks.

>>23034794
Go to a website that allows downvoting or "disliking," you noncontributing nigger, if that's all you know how to do.

>>23034814
This is my thread, retard. Imagine seething because someone didn't like your Reddit post.
KYS.

>>23034530
Do they have a German version of this?

>>23034934
Yeah. Same author.

>>23034851
Then you're even stupider than I thought. I thought you were just a retard who makes abhorrent, worthless, slightly effeminate downvoteposts ("ok?"). Turns out you don't even know how 4chan threads work.

>>23035262
ok?

>>23035055
I slightly preferred the Jannach version but they're probably interchangeable. Also I recommend Nicholas Brown's Russian book.

>23035266
kys

>>23035271
ok?

>>23034574
>comically hard script like Arabic
What's so hard about this

>>23035271
Jannach's textbook looks like it uses the same kind of approach except that the examples don't directly follow from the grammar/vocabulary explanations, personally I prefer the Sandberg approach
I've never understood what people see in Nicholas Brown's course, could you explain what you think is good about it?
There's nowhere near enough input and it just wants to dump vocabulary lists on you

>>23035288
I'm not sure if I could defend Brown's book intelligently, I actually fucked up and initially got the original Penguin Russian course from the '50s which had fun Soviet propaganda-style readings in it, about how great the new factories are etc. I did most of that (because why not) and then switched to the Brown version when it arrived. I also had classical language knowledge going in, so I mostly looked at it as something that would teach me the bare minimum of the grammar and conjugations/declensions so that I could then start grinding comprehensible input myself.

I do remember it being harder in beginning with vocab, but are you sure that isn't just the usual nature of learning Russian?

But yeah I'm biased because I really just want to skip through as fast as possible and then grind comprehensible input myself. So it's hard to say.

>>23035277
What a noble race the Arabs are, imagine having to draw that every time you want to say "horse."

>>23035288
so what's the recommended Russian book?

>>23035277

>>23034934
I've heard good things about German Quickly by Wilson, seems it is on par with or better than Sandberg but I have no personal experience with either.

>>23034530
DLing it, thanks anon

>>23035055
Wtf thanks anon (2x)

>>23034530
I can read Russian and understand it without quite knowing the words and it was all in 3 weeks. Language learning keeps your mind active and wards off rot.

There's also a Spanish Sandberg

>>23035277
Is that actually legible?

>>23034610
French is about 45-50% true cognates, you dunce. No wonder you got burnt out: you retarded

>>23035983
>true cognates
Problem is they're pronounced in a completely different way. How do I get the correct mental voice when reading?

>>23036023
Just like how some hillbilly in rural Alabama pronounces most words: incorrectly. If it is truly bothersome, look up pronunciation guides on YouTube of French QTs explaining the alphabet. I did FFR and never cared to learn the pronunciation, but it got me reading Proust fluently quickly. That is the tradeoff

>>23034530
textbooks are for the weak. i went straight to tintin

Michel Thomas' courses are great for the gist of grammar. French for reading and German for reading are gems as well.
From there on out it's just about expanding your vocabulary

>>23034610
>OOP?

>>23036107
Object-oriented programming.

>>23034530
I pirated Assimil French With Ease and having my wife tutor me. wagmi

The more languages I learn, the more I want to learn. It's a bad addiction bros.

>>23036172
>Wonder why spanish is so different from the other romance languages
>End up taking a crash course on arabic
It never fucking ends.

I downloaded that book a couple of weeks ago and also downloaded L'Etranger but I thought it would take ages and I dropped it because I only ever learned English and that was over a decade of shitposting, watching movies and playing video games.

>>23034530
I am skeptical.

>>23034530
No you can't.
Read this sentence without pausing:
>Ainsi la fantastique dilatation du temps humain imposée par la récente recherche préhistorique ruinet-elle sans coup férir des catégories et des schèmes uniformément élaborés en fonction d’une échelle fondamentalement brève de l’évolution sociale-historique tandis qu’à l’autre bout de la chaîne des siècles, la constitution précisément de notre propre siècle en histoire, avec son cortège de phénoménes en forme de défis à une intelligence déterministe du devenir, l’entrée du présent vivant dans l’épaisseur énigmatique du passé, avec ce que les aboutissements majeurs d’aujourd’hui éclairent en retour d’une gestation longtemps occulte, obligent à reconsidérer radicalement tant l’histoire que nous faisons que celle qui nous a faits.
I consider this easy, by the way.

>>23034530
is there something similar for German?

>>23036277
I just did. Now what?

>>23036308
No you didn't, and you're not OP. In any case, you could try the following:
>Après tout, si cette dissection historique d’une fiction physiologique précise n’était que le prétexte adroit pour une revue autrement fort classique des représentations médiévales du pouvoir principalement d’inspiration religieuse, et si simplement l’érudit pour une fois artiste s’était habilement donné avec ce surgeon curieux de la symbolique médiévale dans le droit politique de la Renaissance anglaise le point de fuite de nature à ériger en tableau d’ensemble et à animer une enfilade par elle-même bien ingrate de monographies étroites qu’un autre moins inspiré eût dû se résoudre à laisser dans la forme minimale d’une espèce de glossaire chronologique — notions, images, usages, le Christ et le roi, le roi et la loi, la patrie, la dynastie, la couronne, les funérailles, et ainsi de suite ?
I consider this easy-moderate.

>>23036285
German for Reading, by the same author.

>>23034530
is pircel like the name of the author of this book?

>>23036337
I did. Now what?

>>23036179
French is the most different Romance language (speaking about the major ones). Italian and then Spanish are the closest to Latin

>>23036356
Spanish has the most flexible grammar and the most differential vocabulary (Thus why it doesn't contain variations of the en/y pronouns like french and italian)

>>23036347
Wait for OP to catch up then you'll receive your next lesson.

>>23036372
>Spanish has the most flexible grammar
I would say most flexible word order, not unlike Latin
>and the most differential vocabulary
That'd be Romanian.

>>23034741
kobo has a built-in french-english dictionary. you can also install koreader on it and load as many dictionaries as you want, they just have to be stardict format. search for open source or pirated french-english dictionaries

i started learning french about a week and a half ago and im already able to understand certain technical texts (such as Schopenhauer for example) with great clarity but struggle with other more basic ones (such as Dazai for example), will this book help with this issue?

>>23034530
>>23036383
>implying french is hard to read
If you know already know english you just need learn a couple of rules. If you can speak it after a week then ill be impressed

>lil’ guy is already seething and doing damage control
Kek

>>23036430
It's sufficiently different from English, apart from some vocab.

>>23036434
?

>>23036394
Eh, fair enough.

>>23036107
Out of print

>>23036436
>muh gender
anon if it pleases you, stop :(
These charades have gone on long enough!

>>23036462
And verbal conjugations for each noun. Next level of difficulty is German, which adds cases and another gender. English is truly a simple language.

>>23036475
Kek you are genuinely retarded

>>23036488
Awww I love your simple grammar :3

>>23036475
>English is truly a simple language.
What it lacks in depth it has in width.
Not saying youre wrong tho. Just saying french isnt particularity hard to adjust once to you learn the rules

>>23036497
>What it lacks in depth it has in width.
You mean vocabulary? Or are you saying something along the lines of "wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle"? I would agree either way.

>>23035888
Nice trips
>>23034530
There anything like this anyone would recommend for classical Greek/Latin? Also are there any good books you can buy in their original Greek/Latin? Something like Meditations or The Campaigns of Alexander?

>>23036710
Luke Smith recommends Lingua Latina per se Illustrata. Make of that what you will.

>>23036724
who is that fellow?

>>23036710
>Also are there any good books you can buy in their original Greek/Latin? Something like Meditations or The Campaigns of Alexander?
Sure, plenty of bilingual editions, too.

>>23036710
Lingua Latina per se illustrata and their companions. It's dull but very effective INPOOT

>>23036724
>>23036771
how many books are there in that series? also, why do some /lit/fags dislike them? are they just being contrarian hipsters?

>>23036735
A based and redpilled /g/entooman trust fundie with a background in linguistics

Is anyone into polyliteracy here? I imagine if you are, you know what I'm talking about.

>>23036783
Lingua latina is just those two major books, Per se Illustrata and Roma Aeterna. Stuff like colloquia personarum and Fabellae latinae are complementary works that will let you use what you learn in the main book.

The reason why many hate them is because, well, they're boring. You can only read so much of it before you brain begs for mercy. Regardless of that, I think they're a good starting point alongside Wheelocks latin. Then you can just google stuff like Ritchie's fabulae faciles so you have some jam with your bread.

>>23036724
>>23036771
>>23036829
Thanks dudes I'll pick it up. I found a youtube series on Latin and I get some of the sentence structure and vocabulary. I just need a dictionary and some books to read.
>>23036762
I'll grab one then.

Gratias amicis.

Seems pretty expensive , anyone know a way to buy it without having to shell out over a hundred?

>>23036883
LLPSI kinda sucks, there are a lot of flamewars about it in /clg/. It's very popular with the autodidact crowd online and has a kind of cult following that more traditional learners find misleading and annoying. For example its advocates are like 90% "natural immersion method" enthusiasts who present it as such a method even though it's intended to be used as a reader alongside a traditional grammar resource.

Just saying if you get annoyed or filtered by it don't feel bad. Just go get Wheelock or Cambridge instead, or that new one, Reading Latin. Those are very text-heavy and quasi-immersive methods anyway.

>>23036143

>>23037056
>Reading Latin
By Peter Jones and Kieth Sidwell from 1986? I was looking at that one a while ago. Wasn't sure if I should pull the trigger.

>>23036430
Speaking French with a close to passable accent would take years

>>23037056
>For example its advocates are like 90% "natural immersion method" enthusiasts who present it as such a method even though it's intended to be used as a reader alongside a traditional grammar resource
That's not true

>>23036710
I wouldn't recommend Arrian, most of it is very boring, and Marcus Aurelius has too varied a vocabulary. Go for Xenophon's Cyropaedia instead. It's like a mix between the Anabasis and Plato dialogues. Vocab is repeated a lot and it has far more dialogue than Arrian or Xenophon's Anabasis so you get more practice with sentences that aren't just "They went there and fought".

>>23036430
Yes, French can get incredibly hard to read at advanced levels

>>23034574
Devanagari was surprisingly easy for me to learn. Took a couple years of Hindi in college to satisfy a requirement for religious studies. I can’t remember much other than the SOV word order, post positions, maybe one or two other things. All I could do with it now is order food at a restaurant, talk to the cashier at a corner store, and compliment a girl’s smile. Don’t need much else. I can’t ask for directions to a bathroom, but that’s what streets are for in india from my understanding, so I’m not too worried.

>>23036784
>based and redpilled /g/entooman
he's a faggot, his black version is better

>>23034610
>>23034579
There's plenty of second hand and library versions availiable (on top of libgen). There's no need hang onto it after you've learned to read French.

>>23035277
>all that just to spell "horse"
least efficient writing system in existence

>>23035055
Is there a Russian version?

Anything like this for Japanese? I work here but there are secretaries who handle hard parts of living here for me at work. I only communicate with my limited Japanese to the clerks at the conbini and they sometimes switch to English for me if they know it.

>>23034786
man i love french for filtering stupid people

>>23039097
Explain?

anyone got a lingua latina for ancient greek

>>23034530
This sounds like a great idea because I want to be able to read French mathematical writing and for this I only need the basics of grammar to be able to distinguish the prepositions and whatnot. Thanks, anon

>>23040017
Italian Athenaze, lazy anon.

>>23034530
I gave up on learning foreign language a while ago. I am too stupid and fat to do it properly.

>>23034545
then why did you need the book?
was English the only language you spoke?
I already know a romance language and only need a dictionary, that's why I'm asking

>>23035055
Burned through this like last year too and god it was so helpful

>>23034545
Ok that's significantly less impressive

>>23040397
Are you a moron?

>>23034545
Whats your recommended French Dictionary (FR -EN) ?

>>23040528
no just trying to understand why he needs a dictionary if that book is so good