/lit/ - Literature

>>23023710
Why did Vatican II have to destroy it all? Why don't good things last?

>>23023710
It looks leprous and reeks of semitic abstraction

The Cathedrals are extremely beautiful, they are really not particularly Catholic in any aesthetic sense, but represent the art and architecture of Celtic peoples.

Islamic architecture is incredibly beautiful, metaphysical, meditative and profound.

The Jews have not been able to establish a comprable architectural history due to their small numbers but I'm sure what they have is amazing.

There are many kinds of beauty and many forms. It is extremely stupid to prefer any one over the rest. It is like poking one of your own eyes out. Do you not desire to see more?

pic related unrelated, Hindu Architecture and its sublime, recursive, vast cosmological beauty.

could Catholics and Orthodox make arguments that they must be true because their religion has produced aesthetics that is far superior to the other religions? that jews, muslims, and pagans lack an artistic soul because their art is inferior?

Idk Muslim world is pretty based aesthetics and architecture, and Jews are pretty good at the drama of things, it's only really protestants who think aestheticizing life is going to ruin anything
I mean, even the Zoroastrians gave us Freddy Mercury, about the best protestants have done is shaker furniture

>>23023710
Hasn't been true since VII. Mainstream Catholics only make eco-themed modernist kitsch, trads are stuck replaying early 20th century French blueblood aethetics until the end of time because that's what Lefebvre grew up with.

>>23023752
Yes and they do so all the time. It is arrogant and they are Fucken Wrong as Fuck. They are not "the best" or "second best." They are just creme de la creme of one of humanity's mega-cultures. There are several. India, the Muslim World and China all have arts comparable in scale, majesty and beauty to Europe, and their influence is far-flung, from Java to Japan, from China to Siberia, and they interact with local cultures and produce local oddities and beauties.

It's all immense and amazing. People need to stop being partisan jackasses bickering about who is the best and start getting their horizons out further instead.

He who loves the most wins.

>>23023764
V2 had a huge outpouring of art from both sides, it's not like Catholicism ignored the fucking cold war either

>>23023710
Tradcaths are so unbelievably shallow. They're happy with a factory made Mother Mary because it's in a pseudo-traditional style. Doesn't matter what its real value is, just superficial muh tradition! This stands for everything else. As if modern Catholic societies are significantly better than Protestant ones.

Also it's pure educational incompetence to think Catholicism has superior architects, sculptors, novelists, poets or painters. Schinkel, Thorvaldsen, Carlyle, Shakespeare, Durer, etc were all Protestants.

>>23023785
Shakespeare was literally Catholic LMAO

>>23023785
>Also it's pure educational incompetence to think Catholicism has superior architects, sculptors, novelists, poets or painters. Schinkel, Thorvaldsen, Carlyle, Shakespeare, Durer, etc were all Protestants.
what kind of argumentation is this even, naming few that were not catholic

>>23023772
everyone knows they are the kings of aesthetics, it just pains muslims and jews to admit it. I could count in my hand the number of aesthetically pleasing synagogues and mosques in this world, I could probably list off 30-50 beautiful cathedrals in just USA ALONE

>>23023785
>Carlyle
Uhhhh, that's a very loose Protestant, generally if you're comparing Jesus to Buddha and Odin, you're kind of in the new age club The Shakespeare debate is a whole other thing
I'm guessing you're talking about tradcath larpers, because a lot of actual trad Catholic stuff is highly specific to their group. It's more a case of there is one place to buy the thing you have to buy to be loyal, and the money goes to the hierarchy to disperse. Everything that's factory made is generally for the broader population and in Catholic stores, but some places are considered better to buy from (usually because of proximity to the local Virgin sightings). Catholic consumerism in general lends more to factory production than the trad Catholic branches do.

>>23023795
This is a highly speculative theory mostly based on the assumption that he willingly inherited his father‘s provincial politicking rather than doing some housekeeping on the name out of filial duty.

The actual Shakespeare we mostly get to see through the works is one carefully aloof of all affiliations, much more in line with the multiple shifts having passed by late in Elizabeth‘s reign.

>>23023732
Lol you will never be white

>>23023732
Brown hands typed this post

>>23023840
>>23023856
He's clearly a pagan. They hate churches (like that retard Varg who burned churches). They also use "semitic" as a pejorative.

>>23023832
good post
Shakespeare is practically a ghost.

>>23023735
>The Cathedrals are extremely beautiful, they are really not particularly Catholic in any aesthetic sense, but represent the art and architecture of Celtic peoples.
Huh? There's non-Celtic people involved. Celts are barely a thing
>The Jews have not been able to establish a comprable architectural history due to their small numbers but I'm sure what they have is amazing.
How can you be so sure of something you haven't even seen? Sounds like a retarded idea.

>>23023887
Yet more corporeal than most other authors of the era.

>>23023882
I don’t understand how these guys can even be “Indo European neo-pagan ancestor worshippers” and also think that Whites have been enslaved by Jewish morals for 2000 years lmao. Wouldn’t it be time to just give up on whites after 2000 years of being “semitic”

>>23023735
>The Jews have not been able to establish a comprable architectural history due to their small numbers but I'm sure what they have is amazing.
we had a temple

it was cool i guess

>>23023935
it wasn't aesthetically pleasing.

>>23023939
that would take away the glory from g-d desu

>>23023953
on the other hand, glory holes would add it

>>23023911
>Celts are barely a thing
Celts are a big thing in the two major cathedral building eras of the Catholic Church, and a lot of the most notable and widespread motifs are reskinned Insular Celtic design features. It's sort of like a lot of the best books to copy being from that branch until the reintroduction of classics from the Arabic speaking world in the Renaissance. They were a pretty big part of early Christianity.

>>23023958
Jews invented glory holes?

>>23023772
But they're not White so who gives a fuck lmao (unironically)

>>23023993
Retard

>>23023964
You mean actual Celts, when Celts were called Celts, or in some /pol/tard we wuzz Celts n shieet way to define later peoples?

>>23023918
Paggies are strange creatures. I see them as contrarians who haven't mentally developed past their teenage years.

>>23023710
>LA Sagrada
This fucking shit is still under construction? I was there when I was a little kid. Can't they move it along a bit faster?

>>23024201
the builders are still on siesta

>>23023818
The United States does not have any Cathedrals, sir. It has several large steel frame abominations covered in cement and masonry veneer. These are basically AI bullshit.

I do not think you have the damnedest clue about it. Every last stone of Chartres was cut with a fucking hammer and chisel, and the damn thing has stood nearly a thousand years.

>>23023710
This belongs on /his/, not /lit/, kys. Also, I don't like European architecture at all. I don't give two shits about Euroshit culture. I barely think about you. I like Chinese and Japanese culture and architecture much more. Even Mega Man's classic artwork is better than most of your ugly corpulent classical artwork trash.

I don't give two shits about you subhuman Jew worshiping trash.

>>23024201
They already built everything Gaudí envisioned. They're now completing the rest on their own.

>>23024231
A partisan in the other direction is just as stupid and pointless. It is ALL extremely beautiful and wondrous.

>>23024239
That's fine if you like it, but I don't like your culture at all desu with you. Granted, I don't go around making posts about how I dislike your culture. I avoid what I dislike. True dislike expresses itself as aloofness and not seeking conflict.

Also, I wouldn't touch your whorish women even if I were paid 1 billion dollars. I'm fucking serious. Your women are ugly man-jawed whores. I have never found them attractive except in anime form.

>>23024231
I can't wait until your ilk are purged

sagrada is ugly (don't bully pls)

>>23024259
>You must like me!
Nah, it's impossible. Forcing assimilation is possible, but forcing change in aesthetic sensibilities or whatever is not possible. I just don't like European culture at all besides some fringe philosophical and ideological movements here and there.

>>23024231
the religion shitter threads on here that go to 100+ posts every time without any literature being brought up are so embarrassing

>>23024247
I see where you are coming from. Western modern and commercial architecture is horrod and is infecting the world's cities like a plague. I also think our women are whores. I think many of them are quite lovely looking though.

>>23024231
>>23024247
>>23024268
>>23024267
White Christian Men are for 5% of the worlds population yet are 75% of Nobel Peace prize winners in Chemistry

>>23023710
Gothic is the superior style, copers can cope

>>23024367
>muh nobel
Jewish tier argument

>>23023710
how many migrants can it fit?

>>23024367
fucking dingus that prize is political and arbitrary as fuck, and also made by Europeans.

Do you seriously think a panel of Norwegian judges can select the greatest works of science/literature/peace in the entire world every year?

Reeeetttaarrrrdddd

I bet you buy the Guenness Book of World Records.

>>23024382
>>23024398
not an argument but White Christian Men are for 5% of the worlds population yet are 67% of Nobel peace prize winners in Physics

>>23024009
Do you think there are actually true pagans? It honestly seems more like a LARP for libtard atheists to use to try and “own” nationalist christians.

>>23023735
>but represent the art and architecture of Celtic peoples
That's not true for every one of them and even for the ones that are it's like saying "spanish is actually a roman language since it comes from latin". The ancient celts weren't making gothic buildings.

>>23023732
Ah, I see. You've made a life-long habit of lying to yourself, yes.

>>23023710
Yes, aesthetically they are certainly at the top, or near it, but following Christ is not about the senses.

>>23023710
Remember friends pray the rosary every day, we will reconquista our lands. Reject the novus ordo and vatican II
>By God We'll Have Our Home Again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55f___1XYVE

>>23023710
Cathedrals are ugly and kitsch.

>>23023722
jews infiltrated the vatican through freemasons and jesuits and then Catholic allowed the infiltration because they were and are still too concerned with the bread and circus to do anything about it. They keep watching pro sports like the fags that they are.
>Vatican II: What We Have Lost...and the Road to Restoration
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxZoc_JhQtw

>>23024409
>Nobel peace prize winners in Physics
so you're just trolling

>>23024009
>>23024411
Both of you should die.

>>23023840
>>23023856
>>23023882
Worship a jew, become a jew.

>>23024603

>>23024610
Don’t you wish you were less of a weakling coward and you actually could do something about people like us mocking you lmao. Might makes right!

>>23024409
That prize is also created by and given out by white people, so it doesn't pass the objectivity test--like all stats racists commonly throw out.

>>23024615
First it's:
>WAHHH YOU PEOPLE HATE SEMITES
Then you post shit like this.

>>23024612
I dont know who you are refering to

>>23024624
>Jesus was an Israelite.
Aka jew.

>>23024411
No. All neopagans are fake. They're just contrarian reactionary LARPers. At least in Europe.

>>23024622
Browns absolutely hate anything where people are judged on merit lmao. Its like their kryptonite.

>>23024608
>>23024622
make an argument as to why White Christian Men aren't superior to your kind or leave the thread, ive made my arguments already

>>23024649
There's no "Nobel peace prize winners in Physics". You don't even know what you're saying, numbnuts lmao

>>23024657
make an argument.

>>23024649
I am white you wretched, stupid, blockheaded, thoughtless Ogre.

Why don't you go sip a Modelo with Cleetus and watch NASCAR? That might be more on your level. Human race relations is a rather complec subject, you have to read dozens or hundreds of books to learn it, which is very boring and dull. Please leave the thinking to men with wits and knowledge. We will all be happier that way.

>>23024621
>Might makes right!
Well, I guess Jews and Pakis are right then in exterminating the white race via subversion and popping out babies at an insane rate.

>>23024665
>ad hominem
logical fallacy, make an argument

>>23024660
Already did. I'm superior to you because I'm not as ignorant. You don't even know what the thing you're trying to pass off as your own achievement is called. LOL.

>>23024667
>”pagan” turns out to be anti-white demoralizer

Every time. Is there like a script they give you?

>>23024607
>make america mexico again
you tardcath guys are a riot

>>23024703
>white becomes jew
>"wtf why do you hate us?"

>>23024713
It was a Traditional Catholic Italic-Mexican that brought the jewish question into the mainstream lol

>>23024728
And yet you are a coward who hates other whites and yet can’t act on this rage….

>>23024741
And you're a jew.

>>23024646
Cope.

>/lit/ is for the discussion of literature, specifically books (fiction & non-fiction), short stories, poetry, creative writing, etc. If you want to discuss history, religion, or the humanities, go to /his/.

>>23024746
Impotent. No foreskin. Virgin.

>>23024009
It’s usually an outgrowth of skeptic atheism in most cases
source: ex atheist who went through a pagan phase as well

>>23024649
No need. Who are you to me to justify myself or my race? You're a literal nobody. As for whites, they are frequently outperformed by men of all races, as superlative men are rare in every race. Your parasitism doesn't grant you any particular authority, and as for "White Christian Men" on average, they no absolutely nothing about physics or any particular field of intellectual expertise. Of the current generation, you'll be lucky to find one who has read a book, and the ONLY illiterate I have ever met in my life happens to be a white man.

>>23024660
He did; you just didn't get it, dummy.

>>23024665
Tell me you’re from Williamsburg without telling me…

Christianity vs Judaism is a controlled psy-op (all of Abrahamism is, really) to ensure the West kills itself over fulfilling the messianic prophecies of levantine desert religions.

>>23024759
Probably not rectally though

>>23024667
Caring about sexual consent is a very beta thing indeed

>>23024765
>>23024763
>>23024672
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Heisenberg

>>23024731
>terminally online zoomers who worship a dead jew think they invented anti-semitism

>>23024767
Allow me to plainly correct I am from elsewhere and that was a very audacious assumption, stupid even.

>>23024783
So is pretending to he a rapis to impress your incel internet friends

>>23023772
Shut the fuck up faggot

>>23024790
in the 21st century he did, it was dead prior to him. It pains muslims, hindus, and pagans to admit it, just like it pain them to admit they have inferior aesthetics to Catholics

>>23024839
I barely think about Christcucks unless I come on here to mock them. You're completely irrelevant to me. I curse the Holy Spirit every day and there's nothing you can do about it.

>>23024837
ooooh I triggered you
:>]

>>23024001
It's sort of both. Insular Christianity is Christianity as adopted by Ireland, and to some extent, Great Britain. It's largely dominated by people who speak a Q Celtic language (Scottish and Irish are modern descendants) and extends its monasteries into the North Sea, Baltic Regions, and modern Germany. It's cut off from Rome for significant periods of time, so it doesn't adopt Church Latin, but preserves classical Latin pronunciation. It also translates through Celtic languages from classical ones, so when books are lost on the continent, people who go to get a French translation or other European language are sometimes translating back into Latin or their own language Celtic concepts. There's a massive input from Irish monks throughout the early and medieval Church because they still have classical and ecclesiastical texts which have been lost everywhere else. Debates around early Christian calendars often include syncretic Celtic dates, alongside other strange quirks of their resources: because there's no investment in Greek or Latin as the superior original language, arguments for using Hebrew dates or a new day starting at sundown often come from Irish monks.
There is some tendency of the Irish Church during the middle ages to do some we were kings stuff, but they also legitimately could still be considered Celts for the most part at the time. One famous account where the author is trying to convince people that Christianity is right involves telling the Celtic myth of how Ireland was discovered, but replacing the various invasions with Christian figures: Celts become a lost tribe of Israel, and Jesus sent Christians to Ireland so his chosen people, the Celts, could be saved as the only white Jews. The middle ages version obviously gets taken up and garbled by various modern groups, including some who really hate both Celtic people and Catholics. But yeah, monks writing fanfiction about history and foreign gods weren't immune to we were kings shit back then, and Irish Christianity was a massive force in shaping European Christianity, especially western Catholicism.

>>23023935
Please realize that you secretly gorging of the tragedic fate of jews and the universal hatred they receive as you can witness it here on 4chan, and then writing extensively about it in victimized self-centered torrents of crocodile tears, finding justification for revenge (even if only a spiritual revenge, and particularly because it is a spiritual revenge) is the first reason why your kind isn't appreciated.

>>23024855
>ad hominem
for people that read a lot I expected less logical fallacies

>>23024839
>I barely think about them, except for when I post on 4chan 5 hours a day about how bad they are!!!!

You people are like annoying ex girlfriends or something lmao

>>23024713
I dont see mexico anywhere on that historic map
>El Abanderado de La Tradición
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVkefN10JtA

>>23024901
Dude, fuck off with your stupid fucking list of logical fallacies that you found on fucking wikipedia or on some dumbass wikihow about debating skills.

This is NOT how you think. You think be carefully reading everything before you, and trying as hard as you can to interpret it meaningfully. Then you begin making comparisons and guessing weakpoints. You test the most obvious vulnerabilities and check them carefully for hocus pocus (MANY academic texts have a thesis that hinges entirely on one carefully crafted footnote, and if you find it and check the source you often catch the author knowingly misquoting and then you know the whole book is bullshit written by a moron.)

You have to try as hard as you can to COMPREHEND a text or argument, THEN you may begin testing it, and if you have HONESTLY considered it and still feel it is wrong, you make your argument.

NOBODY in academia, in professional journalism, in ANY academic institution (excepting undergrads) or in ANY real philosophical or political theory uses "Logical fallacies" to make an argument.

This is dogshit dude, cut it out, you need to treat your mind better. We are here (on earth) to learn and find out the truth, not to """"Win Debates""""

>>23023993
Neither were the Romans.

>>23024367
Remember, swedes have 8 nobels in literature

LMFAO

>>23025410
How many do non-whites have? Better yet, name a book by a non-white author that will be remembered in 100 years lmao

>>23025423
trvth nvke, the brownoids aren’t going to like this one

Protestants and freethinkers are much better writers than Catholics.

>>23025507
Like the great protestant book………um give me a minute

>>23025513
William Shakespeare, Daniel Defoe, Jane Austen, George Eliot, Henry James, Edgar Allan Poe, Herman Melville, etc. The great French authors were also freethinkers.

>>23025531
All trash for effeminate retards except Shakespeare, who was Catholic

>>23025539
You are retarded

>>23025550
>Wooooooah did you just insult hecking Jane Austen!

Lmao I can’t even imagine comparing her or Meliville to Dante and Cervantes. Its almost not eve fair

>>23025556
Nabokov, bad as he was, was right about Cervantes and Dante is just plaster saint stuff. No humanity in his work.

>>23025576
Imagine being this American lmao

>>23025579
https://youtu.be/NJYoqCDKoT4

>>23025611
>Homosexual, half-brown commie dislikes his native culture and language
Many such cases

>>23025623
Calling Borges a homosexual commie only shows how ignorant you are.

>>23025653
>ignorant
The buzzword of proud retards.
You can enjoy Jane Austen if you must lmao, but don’t pretend like its in the same league as real literature

>>23023795
Everyone around him was Protestant, he wrote works glorifying a Protestant culture. Even if it can be said that he inhabits a Catholic world, it perfectly shows that that world was not the strict product of Catholic authorities, but of Christian European civilisation in general. Since the public he was writing for felt no contradiction with their own beliefs.

>>23023809
>what kind of argumentation is this even
Showing that these individuals are the product of Protestant artistic cultures, among countless other great artists. Do you have brain damage, or do you inhabit such a total dearth of cultural knowledge that you think there aren't countless other great Protestant artists?

>>23023828
Carlyle never compared Jesus to Buddha and Odin AFAIK, and he explicitly described pagan gods like Odin as great humans only later assumed to be gods. I was only trying to show the pettiness of championing Catholicism against Protestantism along any kind of cultural lines.

>>23025666
>Even if Shakespeare was Catholic (he was) ……ummmmmmm he lived in a hecking Protestant world!!!

>>23025611
Borges thought Dante was superior to Shakespeare. He considered him the GOAT. And he loved Don Quixote, said he couldn't imagine it in other language but Spanish. Weird choice of authority.

>>23025702
Lol I don’t like Borges but I also knew there was no chance he liked bourgeois Protestant retards over Dante

>>23025688
Just about the intelligence I would expect from a tradcath. But as to the genuine possibility of him being a Catholic, he didn't believe in papal infallibility. He wrote a play about Henry the 8th and vilified cardinals and bishops. At the most he was an extremely high church Anglican.

>>23025720
Source: your ass

>>23024607
>wants to restore Traditional Catholic France/Spain
>speaks English

Why are Mutts like this?

>>23024839
I can‘t even call this 2016 levels of newfaggotry. Tradcath larping as a deradicalization op against the emergent White Nationalist movement didn‘t happen for a few years after that.

>>23025795
is it really an op when the feds persecute it? latinx e-christians may be retarded but it's possible for both blood and spirit to matter.
https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/new-report-details-extent-fbis-weaponization-law-enforcement-against

>>23023918
Why even remotely come to that conclusion? The credibility of christianity is through the floor and people want answers. There‘s reconstructive work to be done but that‘s a fascinating call to answer in a very particular end of the old regime.

Assuming this isn‘t just the usual death-worship talk from the semites.

>>23025853
Try that again in English lmao

>>23025836
Feds aren‘t smart enough to be the ones selecting the bounds of permissible discourse

>>23025760
Haha, try reading Shakespeare some time.

>>23025760
NTA but Shakespeare grew up during an Anglican regime and was no doubt educated in Anglicanism. In Richard II the protagonist (Richard), who is an Anglican King, has an identity crisis over one man being a religious or civic authority and in no uncertain terms. This pertains both to the King and to the idea of a papal authority. The 'source' are Shakespeares works in general.

>>23025861
Not my fault you can‘t read

>>23025870
>>23025871
>>23025872
Same guy or robot?

>>23025539
Edgar Allan Poe is better than Shakespeare, faggot.

>>23023710
>architecture
Muslims win this one
>sculpture
This goes to the catholics
>prose
This goes to the protestants
>poetry
Snatched away by the pagans
>painting
And the eastern Orthodoxy with the steal of the century, those russians are great painters

>>23025930
Imagine being this American and this brown lmao

>destroys your Romish pride in your path

>>23025947
Your mind is utter filth. I recommend a gut cleansing.

>>23025930
Anon... Please stop embarrassing our country like this...

>>23025958
I recommend you read something beyond your high school curriculum

>>23025961
Edgar Allan Poe's work is that of wonderful, evocative, and creative weird fiction that pivots the imagination towards the macabre and surreal. Shakespeare is just a trashy humanist for pseudo-intellectual cunts. Stfu and slit your throat.
>>23025964
I recommend you dilate.

>>23025973
Did they remove the 18+ age limit or what?

>>23025611
Fascinating.

Thats the kind of differences Ive noticed in language touring the world, how Korean doesnt use time perspective, so teaching English you'll see it for the first time if youre a native speaker.

The ability to think temporally.

>>23025998
My weltanschauung can fit Poe easily, but not Shakespeare because he is woefully obsessed with the nuance of the human character. You should be grateful that Edgar Allan Poe is one of the few western artists that I pay attention to, dumbass.

>>23026011
It actually offends me when brown retards discuss my culture. Begone and talk about “Things fall apart” or whatever nonsense you people have

>>23026015
>It actually offends me when brown retards discuss my culture.
Your culture is trash and built on a superfluous emphasis on ambiguity and neuroticism.

>>23023735
Test

>>23026023
You like the Amerimutt high school poet lmao

>>23026028
Why is it always Germans?