/lit/ - Literature

kiss my arse

>>23000886

Why not just delete the first paragraph? Start with Bobby in his bedroom.

Also "a wave of calmness" can be deleted. Let us determine how Bobby is feeling.

>>23000886
Dreadful dialog. Get someone else to write it or just wait till you notice how people actually talk.

>>23000886
>I hate that style of quotation
>lied should be laid
>reads like fetish porn
>goes nowhere
To be expected from someone posting random shit without context.

>>23000886

>>23000917
>>23000929
Damn, crabby crabs...there wasn't even enough dialog posted to complain about it. My main comment is that it read more as a summary than a story, i.e. telling over showing, but didn't feel strongly enough to post that until you two crabs came along.

>>23000886
Looks like someone didn't read their work out loud, and watch the videos in this thread. This whole thing reads like a synopsis. You keep on telling us how Bobby feels and not showing us how he feels. How are we expected to connect with the character?

After having reviewed several dozen webnovels on various platforms I think I have identified the cancerous mindsets that cause incredibly bad and generic writing to infest those places, all bad and generic in the exact same way:
World building and TV.
No I am not a boomer, thanks to Tolkien and TTRPGs, writers are way too eager to show off their world and its intricate systems, especially magic systems and shove exposition into every single paragraph. It is as if they are afraid that if they dont show the reader how well-crafted and unique and cool their magic system based on Asian mythology is, they'll drop the book immediately.
And it isn't just TV ruining writing but all visual media. People raised on those media have way too much the impression that a book is like a description of a movie or anime. They can only speak in visual terms, need to write detailed descriptions of every single detail, want to explain exactly where during a fight or action scene everything is in what relations the characters move and what strikes they perform or block how with which hand.
They cannot think in evocative language, where you let the reader's mind do most of the imagening for you. Of course that would mean that the reader never got to know how cool and unique their characters, monsters and spells look.
All those words and so little plot, character and charm.

>posts dogshit
>gets legitimate criticism
>WAAAH CRAB! ASSHOLE! MEANY!
just fuck off; you're not cut out for this.

>>23001259
Again with the judgment and generalities. "Bad" and "generic" are only what you think about it. The simple fact is, they have a lot more fans, and engagement, than whatever attempt at literary fiction you're making. They're putting themselves out there, while you make ad hominem attacks. Either post your writing or stop with the mean-spirited trolling.

>>23001259
Worldbuilding >>> Describing the scent of the room

>>23001347
its fake engagement and its not real writing
kill yourself

>>23001381
Worldbuilding and mechanics constitute genuine writing, bound by state axioms that writers must adhere to.

Your writing is just masturbation

>>23001381
What is your evidence that it's fake engagement? And "not real writing" is just another ad hominem attack. This mindless response makes it very likely you're just Frank.
>kill yourself
Such projection. No one here wants to kill themselves except you. Please, put yourself out of our misery.

>>23001347
>describing mindsets that make for shallow and generic writing and why
>ad hominem attacks
lmao, learn what words mean before you use them.

>>23001392
>Worldbuilding and mechanics constitute genuine writing
But over relying on them in favour of engaging characters and sensible plots is not good writing. learn to read.

>>23001403
I've put in the effort to research platforms like RoyalRoad and it is absolutely a pyramid scheme. Not a single 'story' on there has a writing above grade 11.
Also, there are multiple people in here we are not all the same guy.

>>23001447
Your conclusion of "shallow and generic writing" is not supported by your argument. You simply jumped to the conclusion you wanted. Your imbecilic viewpoint is obvious for everyone to see, and is much dumber than the ones you accuse of being dumb. Give it up, Frank.

>>23001458
>pyramid scheme
Really? So there are some writers at the top of the pyramid that are getting thousands of positive reviews? Or is it just a flat review-swapping scheme? Do you even know what you're complaining about?
>writing above grade 11
Why the obsession with this? You'll want your writing to achieve a far lower grade level if you want it to be popular. Your pretentiousness is obvious.

>>23001457
Most famous example is A Game of Thrones.

Nothing happens for half book just info-dump.

Set up and foreshadowing
JUST TAKE YOUR TIME

>>23001458
>I've put in the effort to research platforms like RoyalRoad
Show your work, then. You could very well just be making stuff up, like Harvard cancer researchers were busted for recently: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/1/12/dana-farber-research-misconduct-allegations/

>>23001493
a cursory glance at 3-4 of the 'top' stories on RR would prove it
I dont really care at this point, you're just coping because deep down you know youll never be a real writer

>>23001508
>put in the effort to research platforms
>cursory glance at 3-4 of them
as if it weren't obvious you're a blowhard
>deep down you know youll never be a real writer
more projection

you breathe unoriginality into every one of your terrible replies you little nitwit
you are a bug under my shoe forever.

>>23001527
>more mindless deflection
give it up, frank

My VN script is now a pretty hefty novel outline and manuscript and better for it.

I will never be like my favorite author. Immediately upon reading them for the first time, I saw my own style of storytelling -- at least, what I aspire it to be -- only done better in every way. I've spent a bit too long trying to look for the answers to my own shortcomings in their work, and I've grown to emulate them. However fortunate or unfortunate however, when I think on the same topics, I end up with contradictory conclusions. I might be the opposite then. Horseshoe theory?
Either way, I've got to grow into my own boots.

>>23000886
Was this intentionally terrible? I am legitimately confused at the end there.

>>23001552
Thank you for dropping out of the VN arms race, I'd fucking rope if someone else got theirs out before mine.

>>23001942
This. I don't know what the hell is going on here.

>>23001508
I don't think anyone argues that webnovels have amazing prose
but RR isn't a pyramid scheme, lol. the little cult of review swappers you're talking about generally see very little real success, though they admittedly game their way onto rising stars (and stifle and die there, usually low on the list).
actually gaining a large audience and patreon fanbase requires writing good slop (let's skip the whole seething discussing on how that's an oxymoron)
t. have done it multiple times on detached pennames

>>23000816
I wrote like 4 pages of outline this morning. It's coming out nicely lads

>>23001984
>the little cult of review swappers you're talking about generally see very little real success
this is patently false
the real swap shop is on discord not in the official forums
no one reads anything on there, it's all just self publicity and deception

>>23002013
yes, i know about the discord, and i know the individual users who hit mid-rising-stars by gaming the algorithm. my statement stands. they spin their wheels perpetually and never get more than 500-1000 followers. they don't see any real success
i've had multiple organic stories with 0 advertising, 0 anything reach top 7 (front page) rising stars just from posting chapters. the review swap weirdos never get there (unless they actually write good slop, but that's rare)
you don't know what you're talking about. i can only assume you're coping for how you didn't get there yourself

>>23002035
dude I would sooner shoot my toe off than reduce myself to submitting to royal rode

>>23002044
then why are you pretending like you know how it works? pseuds lmfao

>>23002046
I can know how it works without giving them my content. You're really exposing how stupidly and blindly you go about things.

>>23002049
brother ive been there and done it. several times. you're the one embarrassing yourself

>>23002057
yeah it's very embarrassing not having my work on a forum for high school writers litRPGs and fanfic

>>23002063
what?
you're embarrassing yourself because you're acting like an authority on something you're truthfully clueless about
not whatever weird pseud rant you're going on
why are all of you like this?

>>23002071
it's not all of us, it's just frank. he's a notorious troll here on /lit/ and especially /wg/

Someone give me a complex poetic form to upstage all the posers in my writing class that are doing freeform garbage.

Who needs 300 pg craft manuals when you have wikipedia.

>>23002133
What's that?
Just use A B A B
Maybe add C?

>>23002071
>>23002057
>>23002046
>>23002035
>>23001984
>>23001538
>>23001463
>>23001392
>>23001508
>>23001493
For the sake of out Lord and Savior, Jesus of Nazareth, please stop responding to trolls.

>>23002268
eh I don't think the dude talking about the RR review-swap discord was a troll, since that's a fairly niche thing to know, there was a big drama about it a few months ago. but he bought into the whole 'you have to do it to succeed' idea they peddle themselves. i corrected him that most authors who make it big have organic growth and he went on the usual pseud meltdown
though maybe it shifted into trolling halfway through

>>23002291
kek there really was a discord?
lmao I pulled that out of my ass

>>23000816
guys, my books have like 80 000 words as of right now, and I'm not even in the middle of my story.

I'm not saying that my writing is gold, it's shit but I was wondering if I need to cut down some fat, because it feels like i'm gonna write a 1000 pages book and I don't think my story requires all of that

I'm biased because it's my story and nobody read it except for me

>>23002308
book*
one book

>>23002308
trim it to 50k words and you might have something half readable

>>23002268
Comic is Reddit tier. If you have no bias towards the country that you’ve lived in all your life, you are a slimeball cosmopolitan who likely has no loyalty towards anything and who every decent person is suspicious of.

>>23001947
I'd have to get artists or do it with shitty placeholder sketches and the you already know audience that makes up the VN scene just isn't profitable unless you're in it for the patreonbux. You know VNs have teams for a reason, right? It's harder than writing a fucking novel and even short ones are as long as one.

>>23002303
yes, there was a discord for upvoting and swapping reviews amongst a cabal of people who would get like 100-800 followers, hit rising stars but stifle there and have an embarrassing patreon launch. because that's what happens when you game algorithms--if it isn't natural, you have very few real fans
there was a bunch of drama over it a few months ago, with reddit posts and permabans handed out, the whole nine yards. very funny stuff

Is it bad that I like to keep my action scenes kind of short? Writing them is a bit of a struggle, if I'm being honest.

>>23002833
if you're being honest, they're kind of like your prick aren't they?

>>23002833
Depends if they serve a purpose in your overall story. I suggest you reread aloud to hear if the scenes are clunky.

>>23002833
No, it's good. Overly long and detailed action descriptions slow the reading to a crawl and are the literary equivalent of zack snyder super slow mo.

I've been working on a science-fiction story but some of the things I want to do lean towards fantasy or become all but indistinguishable from magic. I can't decide what I ought to do and it feels like it's creating this fork in the road for me and I'm not sure which path to take the story down

Pros of the more science-fiction based version:
>Interesting take on certain supernatural tropes through a physical lens
>Creates hard rules that set the stage for certain scenes I have planned
>Prevents "power creep", I want to avoid having characters pull stupid abilities out of their ass and keep things more grounded

Pros of fantasy leaning angle:
>Can still use sci-fi framework and use some handwaving for certain elements "we don't understand this phenomenon/this is a leftover piece of technology we can operate but can't reproduce"
>Adds a sense of scale/grandeur to the setting

>>23003186
Unless you're going for hyperrealism and willing to put in the research legwork for it, you're going to have to play the "magic-like technology"/"bullshit new physical phenomenon" card at some point.
Remember that your story should always come first, don't be shy to lean into fantasy if a hard sci fi approach is too restrictive

How do these royal road authors post so quickly and consistently? Am I right to assume that they have a great backlog, that they polish off for publishing on the day they update? Or are they writers, prodigious in output, who have written so much for so long that they easily can write at their pace?

>>23003264
because they monkeytype dogshit to word count

>>23003228
>Unless you're going for hyperrealism and willing to put in the research legwork for it, you're going to have to play the "magic-like technology"/"bullshit new physical phenomenon" card at some point.

This is actually exactly what I have done, I've gone deep down the rabbit hole researching chemistry, coming up with plants, insects, parasites, etc... To me that's been really rewarding, and I'd like to think it's not just "worldbuilding for worldbuilding's sake". I'm more worried about scenes losing their tension/stakes once fantasy elements are introduced.

>>23003264
Backlogs and smaller chapters. Some of them release weekly or bi-weekly and it's not uncommon for them to break up chapters into parts. If you write too little that's part 1, if you wrote too much but not enough for a full chapter then it's cut up into part 1 and the rest carries over to part 2.

>>23003734
Not feeling this at all, brother, Can you even tell me what you meant by the second sentence? How does an indisputable fact become a fictitious verisimilitude? The rest is barely coherent-- but not even in an interesting, or fun to read way.

>>23003734
This is just as bad as this one —> >>23000886

>>23003790
It's my first attempt at literary fiction. Under normal circumstances, I write weird fiction, but this time I thought I'd give it a try....Should I just stay away from literary fiction?

>>23003838
are you esl?

I rarely read non-fiction that isn't from a ttrpg rulebook, hated english class, and haven't looked at any of the guides or help your general gives. with that said, how shit is this? i've written a couple of others but one of them was an attempt at fitting the story to a single page (without fucking with the formatting a ton like this one) and the other got negative reviews from the two people i showed it to because "if i was a serial killer i'd enjoy this, but im not so i dont". which was a very valid criticism desu.

I'm writing a novel about IRA/The Troubles. Here are the problems, I'm not Irish, I'm ESL and I don't know anything about Irish history. What should I do?

>>23003966
just make shit up. if anyone tries to tell you there's an issue with the story just insist they weren't there and don't know what it was like.

>>23003734
Who the fuck counts to 800?

Look at the White Janny--
Jiggling White Boy Titties
Like a Smooch from Whitey Auntie
To a Town Boy with no City

12 year old faggot, pretty
12 year old racist, shitty
Fucked up on his lilly white mom
Fucked up on the notion
Of her Black Stallion Dom

White boy, he please!
He Never can Overreach!
Gold Stars from the Teach!
No gold is in his teeth
No nigger beyond his Reach!
I will teach you each, your bitch
Is bending over backwards to my switch

He ties a nigger up and down
He ties a smile to a frown
He controls the Laughing Wench
He has a Black Boy he can Lynch

Dogshit Caucasian souls
In the cotton rolls and rolls
Fucked up Daughter Lucy
White Dad touches
White girl pussy

Fucked up Neurotic Demon Race
Floods of Noah, Please God, Erase.
Often I have cried and cried
That life continues for the Whites

May I dig my toes
Into their wretched eyes
May I make them see
The black skin they deny

Die, die, die!
You Fucked-up sister fuckers
Tie, tie, tie
A millions nooses,
Line up all your truckers
Lick the curb and die

>>23000816
Most of you guys are really bad writers who will never publish or accomplish anything with your writing just so you know

>>23003962
Watch the videos in the OP and read your own writing once you're done. It's bad.

>>23003962
>>23004051
I should probably mention that the intent is to be confusing. The numbers constantly count down, and the character in the story is (presumably) hallucinating from a lack of sleep. or at least thats supposed to be one answer for whats happening.

Theres a typo I forgot to fix where it says "I" instead of "he" near the end but otherwise the jarring shifts back and forth are intentional.

>>23004037
Royal Road BTFO you

>>23002319
>Having loyalty to a place that hates you and only sees you as tax dollars just because you happened to be born there

>>23004037
You could go to a Harvard English class, tell them the same thing, and be right.

>>23004095
Watch the videos fedorabro

>>23004557
>why should i love my mom??? she's just some whore
you're a scumbag and good people avoid you

>>23005048
I like how you couldn't refute my point so you made an unrelated strawman, very cool

>it was the best of times, it was the worst of times
argh! terrible writing! it's like this idiot never saw any youtube videos on showing instead of telling

>the sound of very good things happening was deafening, the sound of very bad things happening was also deafening
phew, fixed

>>23005053
except i know for a fact that you don't love your mother, and it only looks "unrelated" from your side. it's all the same thing, actually

>>23005080
Ok

How would you describe the sound that a silenced pistol makes when shot? Specifically, while the barrel is deep in someone's mouth.

>>23005167
Contrary to what films show you, a silenced pistol is still going to mostly sound like a gunshot unless it's a low caliber using subsonic rounds, so do remember that.
But I would describe the sound as a fsh, not unlike the sound of opening a can of pop but short rather than long. Both are the sounds of gas rapidly leaving an opening.

>>23005175
Interesting. Now I need to find a good lightweight pistol that can use subsonic ammo for my main character to use. Do you think asking around on /k/ would get me my answer or do you think there are people here that would know?

>>23005197
Ask on /k/ and look up videos on youtube of people using subsonic rounds.
A 22. can be very quiet.

>>23005202
>look up videos on youtube of people using subsonic rounds.
I looked at one of an old guy shooting them from a rifle but I assume that would be louder than a handgun.

>>23005204
Generally speaking the most important thing is the caliber of the round, since that is going to determine the amount of power in the bullet.
There are some things that can change this, such as how open the bolt is or the addition of another part over the bolt section which might be able to deflect or soften sound.
By and large a 22. rifle will do the same damage as a 22. pistol, and a 50 cal round put into a 12 gauge is still going to do the same damage.
I'm not a gun nut, but these are things I've picked up over time, and I'd find a second opinion.

I'm writing a series of short stories that could be interpreted as taking place in the same universe, if some years apart. they are all about a techno–fascist near–future, in which an Israel–like entity has taken control of the planet, and subjects the various countries to experiments in death, torture, internment and surveillance, similar to how they are with Palestine right now, but with more extreme brutality, more advanced technologies and more control over the mediums of mass communication.

>>23005265
This sounds like it'll be as entertaining as books and movies set around COVID. That's just my opinion though, not tryna get you down or discourage you, anon.

When first mentioning the gun in my story should I just refer to it as a "colt 22." or should I be more specific and write "colt 22. rimfire pistol"?

>>23005278

>>23005197
.45 calibers are subsonic and commonly used, your .22 hitman meme gun is usually a ruger mark series, beretta makes a threaded .380 that's adorable. I think the best description of the volume is like a nail gun, anything larger than a .22 is pretty loud. Still deafening but not enough to damage your hearing with ear protection.

>>23005376
Damn, seems like I'm gonna have to go with the cliche of fireworks going off in the background. Either that or have my guy act like a renovator who's using a nail gun if/when the neighbours come to the door.

>>23000816
>The gate was unguarded, and the serfs populated the streets, watched over by stone sentinels with serene faces. Symbols of the empire, gods of those wretches below; the traveler would be amazed at the reverence with which the serfs treated the weathered faces of heroes that were not theirs and those gods that never knew them. He would smile warmly while making his way to the gubernatorial, now surely royal, palace; the city reminded him of grandfather’s tales.
>His request for an audience with the local Magnate was granted almost immediately much to the traveler’s satisfaction; it had been a long time since he’d talked to anyone like himself.

>>23005396
Outdoors, almost any gunshot travels about a mile. If you're inside, the neighbors might not notice a shotgun if you're in a detached house. You need a frame of reference for how distinct the sound of a gunshot is an isn't and how loud that sound is with a silencer. (yes, it's a silencer /k/, bitch about it and I'll more rightfully call it a muffler)

>>23005407
It'll be inside, in the middle of the night and it will be in the suburbs so the houses will be detached with a little bit of space between them.
>You need a frame of reference for how distinct the sound of a gunshot is an isn't and how loud that sound is with a silencer.
Can you elaborate? I think I know what you mean but I doubt myself a lot cause I'm pretty retarded.

>>23000816
Thanks anon. I value the information you provided.

>>23005418
Normies have no idea what a gun sounds like IRL and in person. It doesn't sound like a car backfiring (except when it really does for some reason). I've heard deputy Cletus drop a mangy looking deer about 100 yards away and while it wasn't loud from where I was inside, I knew what it was. Most people don't and won't. It's both distinct to those who know and doesn't register as anything to those who don't.

why was Deputy Cletus dropping deers? Did they break the law?

>>23004095
>the intent is to be confusing

That's just not a good idea. I read the first paragraphs, realize it doesn't make sense, assume you're a retard and stop reading. Unless you are a genius with a famous name, nobody is going to say, oh yeah, he's doing this on purpose. Cool. They'll just assume you're a retard.

Start over.

>>23005398
>He would smile warmly
Bad writing.

>>23006486
another graduate of youtube university, i see

>>23006628
Assuming you are the writer, "would" implies there is a condition or habitual action. Since neither of those are the case here, it isn't appropriate.

>>23000816
How might a flatterer praise and describe this woman's jawline as beautiful?

>>23007090
Zdarian

Just got a Kindle scribe and having a lot of fun with it, I might start writing poetry more regularly.

>>23005167
Putting a suppressed gun in someone's mouth would drastically reduce the sound. It would block the explosion of gas from the barrel and prevent the sonic boom of the bullet breaking the speed of sound. It would still make some noise from the cycling action, probably about as loud as smacking a stone countertop with a hammer.

>>23007119
???

>>23007090
>a delicate concrete brick

Can one person make a "concerted" effort? Is that grammatically correct?

https://pastebin.com/SXKhDavp

>>23007852
Nice. Very nice… Let’s see Anon’s story fragment.

I wrote this outline for a short story I'm considering writing. I'm not sure if I'm promising too much by having a TV that shows the future in the beginning without having the TV playing any rule in the story after its ability is discovered.
What do you think?

>>23007852
>https://pastebin.com/SXKhDavp
So he has very strong opinions on infidelity, but seemingly has loads of bitches sending him titty picks? Unless the images are something else entirely. I, also, just find the use of Oxycontin to be overly stiff, but that's just my taste. Otherwise, really quite good. The dialog, especially, felt organic.

>>23007852
Not bad. I like dialog.

>>23007984
the*

>>23007980
Yeah, I changed it to coke just after I posted. Fits better with the high-powered lawyer angle I'm going for.

It's just one girl sending him pics though, from his work. Was that not clear? What part made you think it was multiple girls?

>>23007852

>>23007977
Pretty cool. Why does the father kind of disappear from the narrative though? Maybe you can replace the boy in the end with his father instead? Or just cut him entirely and have the mother--a single working mother--bring in the TV. Also, why does the mother flip out like a schizo? You've set her up as this warm, understanding person and then she just flips her shit on a dime? There was nothing to indicate she was overworked earlier on (removing the father would help with this too). It also doesn't make sense that the boy would be scared of her. Finally, there isn't enough tension leading up to the inciting incident.

>>23007430
It's a reference to the actor Robert Z'Dar.
https://www.google.com/search?q=robert+zdar+chin&tbm=isch

>>23008111
>Why does the father kind of disappear from the narrative though?
I have no clue
>Or just cut him entirely and have the mother--a single working mother--bring in the TV
Good idea. I'll probably use it.
>why does the mother flip out like a schizo?
She's overworked.
>You've set her up as this warm, understanding person and then she just flips her shit on a dime?
Won't an element of surprise make the story better? If she was a bitch from the beginning, the boy would not have been affected that much by her reaction.
>There was nothing to indicate she was overworked earlier on
I was thinking of making that clear by the dialogue in which the mother tells the boy to leave her while she's busy before she explodes. I also thought that I don't need to make everything makes sense since it's written from a 5yo point of view, but now I realize it's just lazy.
You're right about the single mother thing.
>It also doesn't make sense that the boy would be scared of her.
Why not? It's his first encounter with that side of his mother.
>Finally, there isn't enough tension leading up to the inciting incident.
A detailed scene of the boy not being able to sleep and then sneaking out of bed would create that tension

days away from publishing, and i just keep finding new plot holes.

>>23008298
How many drafts did it have? How many beta readers read it?

>>23008306
i think like 4 or 5 people read the basic story outline, but so far only 1 person besides me has read through the whole thing.

>>23007977
doesnt make sense, the boy should get his mother to stay up at night to see the future.
also disappointing to not do something with a magic tv
your lessen here seems to be against loving your mother

Will transcribing all of my ideas so I don't have to keep tabs on them at all times help me with my brain fog?

How lame is it to have a fantasy story where the MC has no combat ability (besides muscle from working on a farm) and has to navigate adventures with clever thinking and scumlord tactics? I feel like there's an expectation for fantasy main characters developing legendary bloodline powers or whatever, but mine just... Never does.

>>23009208
Depends entirely on the execution. Are you capable of clever thinking yourself?

>>23002133
Try writing a Sestina.
> six stanzas of six lines each, and a closing stanza of three lines. The six words that end the lines of the first stanza get repeated at the line endings of each of the remaining stanzas, and all six words appear in the poem’s final three lines.
There’s a particular order that you have to rearrange the ending words for each new stanza - Google a guide for more info. Once you pick your 6 words, you will find the restrictions actually make you more creative.

>>23005444
Out here in the country you'll hear gunshots going off throughout the day during hunting season.
I'm glad that I live in a place where I hear gunshots and don't assume someone is being murdered.

>>23008289
I think the fact that the protagonist is 5yo is tripping you up a bit. Your readers aren't 5yo (unless they are? is this supposed to be a children's book?). You therefore have the opportunity to use dramatic irony to generate tension. You can and should include things which the reader will understand but not the 5yo character.

>it's an "interrupt everything I'm supposed to do to work on yet another new story idea" episode

>>23002308
Do you have an outline?

>>23002833
Do your action scenes have stakes, suspense, tension, and purpose? Is your story meant to indulge in the action or is the action there to ratchet up the excitement in the plot itself?

>reading over something I wrote months ago to edit it again
>realize the notes are gone
>almost completely forget the palindrome in the structure, don't know what to fix
>oh no no no no no
>find it on some obscure notepad.txt
phew

>>23007119
Kek.

>>23009208
Lots of people like rogues and underdogs.

>>23000816
What does it mean if i started writing fairytales and short stories compulsively
After a breakup?, journaling wasnt enough

>>23008478
>also disappointing to not do something with a magic tv
That's exactly what I was asking about. I heard Sanderson saying it's boring and disappointing to have a big promise in the beginning and then drift away from it.
However, the story is supposed to be about how such encounters make us lose our childhood imagination, excitement, and view on life and turn us into boring adults. So, the TV, or whatever I would replace the TV with, has to be magical and has to be ignored.

>>23009208
>How lame is it to have a fantasy story where the MC has no combat ability (besides muscle from working on a farm) and has to navigate adventures with clever thinking and scumlord tactics?
You're pretty much describing Odiseus

>>23009939
I think he's generally right about that. However, he also says that you can break your promises if you deliver something even better. It should flow from the story's events and the characters' actions mind you, but if it's organic and it's satisfying readers won't mind.

Guys, can you recommend me some good and bad novels? Can be any genre. I just want to read them for the sake of learning what works and what doesn't. Thanks.

>>23010435
How would you be able to tell which is which?

>>23010435
Name some movies or TV shows that you like.

she was made of snakes, and every while a head was out to see if it was warm enough to lay eggs. The hills rolled on their own like conveyer pins greased with lemonade. She wouldnt shut her own door and would put her legs up on the dashboard if it were a table. The road many tiny flat surfaces that never got back to us. She spat out a cigarette that was too cold. We looked at cabins with no trucks in the drive. Ran away when the ground started to sink. I would crouch to let her see the sky. A thousand expeditions in a thousand crumpled up british accents. describing the outdoors though we were aliens. I watched her mouth move to see whether it happened all at once, or gradually like darwin said. Knobbled tractors embanked across a field were like stale cheetos up someones couch. She would sit with them until they told whats wrong, leaving the seat to pling up like a plunger stuck to a wall only when her blushings got too crowded in the generations since a great plague or famine. I saw crepes flutter in the space created when locks of her hair swung themselves apart like tethered trapeze artists. Jousting with the longest dandelions we could find. Weeds so thick they covered her like a movie persons bandages. when i lost her in the theeds id have to gather. Trees with bark the like of wet cat legs. Stripping them down to their slenders to see their rings and resealing them like envelop folds. Each ring gained for the trees was a one burned off from our tires. Was a cloudy gutter, chugging out from the center of her tea cup when she set it down too much. the caramelization at the ears of the sports section that turned newsprint into egyptian tableture.

>finish first draft
>feel really good about this one
>go back to beginning to start editing it
>It is unreadable slop
EVERY FUCKING TIME

>>23010959
What makes it so bad to you?

>>23010934
This bizarre metaphor-laden style is such a chore to read, unless used sparingly when your characters are high as fuck. It absolutely does not belong on the first page of your novel. It's well-written, but no one is going to read more than 1000 words of this at best.

>>23010983
It simply doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel like something I would want to pick up and read. If I handed it to someone without telling them I wrote it, they would assume some dumbass redditor wrote it. It is simply poorly written slop.

what are some adjectives you would use to describe this pond?

>>23011046
Calm, still, inviting.

>>23011046
or, this river

>>23011008
Is it in the prose itself, the characters, the dialog, the subject matter, the action?

>>23011005
I cant write more than 1000 words of it at a time either
it aint gonna be no novel

>>23011046
poopy

>>23011046
>>23011054
Water is wet. Grass is green. Sky is blue.

>>23011058
The prose itself, it is just awful

>>23011046
floury leaves reflected off the lake like a middle school girls ill-done makeup in an ipad screen after the power let out

>>23011129
LMAO

>>23011129
Okay. Is it your vocabulary or your turn of phrase?

>>23011168
Turn of phrase, what are all these questions getting at? Do you want to see my draft or something

>>23011207
Just wanted to help by zeroing in on the issue.

>>23011207
Yes. We haven't a draft to laugh at in awhile

>>23003966
make a reading list

>>23001997
nice art

>removing arc in story
>there's actually a bunch of plot and character-important conversations there
fuck fuck fuck, why can't I hit delete without worrying?

>>23011980
Just put it in a junk file and save it for later.

>>23011995
Already done, but it still hurts to see what I was capable of when I was confident and didn't care.

>>23012004
You'd get shanked by crabs in jail for sure.

>>23011046
>>23011054
pastoral, tranquil
>>23011117
the heart of someone completely unlike a poet

>>23000816
People say I have really good ideas and love it. They get all excited and say "wow that's really cool you're so creative." Etc then when I show them my writing they get really disappointed and basically say you explained it better when talking to me. My ideas are concepts that take a ehile to reveal wat is going on so no excerpts.

How do I get my ideas onto the page better? Should I just give up and accept I'm a bad writer and start a podcast?

>>23012238
And yet theirs is better poetry than yours

>>23012310
I'm not a poet, and I know it.

>>23002321
I want soul.
Could you tell me more?
Maybe... share part of the original script with me?
Did you format it like a screenplay?

>>23012300
Please help.

>>23012300
>>23012460
Practice writing more? Without any examples it's difficult for us to speculate.

>>23012363
I had actually written it too much like a novel or collection of short stories to make a VN of it. The original premise was a horror VN that didn't quite make it out of the preliminary stages. I had some paranormal ideas and a whole twin peaks kind of mystery plot for the 'main' route and the usual "go back to your childhood hometown to reconnect read: looking for dick" romance premise as the ostensible plot, but that's all disjointed trash that's not super entertaining at the best of times and I could only do 2 of the stories I had planned well.

MC was back in town in the middle of bumfuck and was going to end up in the middle of a RICO case with his old childhood buddy who became a cop or undercover agent. Deputybro was going to be cold to the MC and mad he walked into the setup for a deal. It was leading to this whole pagan biker gang thing with the MC's oneitis as a central dramatic figure somewhere in the drug fueled viking cult orgy and like a take on local politics and old blood feuds in bumfuck towns, but wasn't my thing once I plotted that much out.

So I took 3 characters that had some legs and life to them and parts of the premise that weren't so countryfried genrefied and went in a different direction with it based on one of the routes that was somewhat literary. Very little has changed in the grand scheme.

Whats up with pastebin today?

>>23011046
Citrus, quaint, picturesque. Like a cool glass of water with orange shavings.

My scientist character went crazy because he was trying to stop a primordial being that was only staved off long enough because humanity had discovered fire which held it back now it managed to somehow get stronger and plans on plunging the whole world into eternal darkness. My story ends with the lights going out and my MC realizzing there is something there that isn't human

>>22995360
Still alive. Still writing. Progress continues. I just wrapped up a part where a portion of my story's (or rather, my setting's) magic system was detailed. I'm going to hope I did a good enough job *showing* it, rather than expositing. Coming up next is a part that wasn't in the original idea I had for the story, but I'm going to make it serve the story somehow!
I've recently figured out that if I outline ahead of time, I'm virtually immune to writer's block.

>>23001259
Worldbuilding adds flavor when it's sprinkled in, in time with when the reader might want to know about it. Frontloading the stuff tends to slow things down. Just because you, the writer, spent five weeks workshopping a magic system, doesn't mean you spill it all to the reader right out the gate.
Any writer that does a massive, exposition-heavy prologue (or two, like a certain anon) almost certainly has far more words and story time to work with than they realize. It stems from not realizing how long a full novel really is.

>>23001392
You want to use them to serve the plot, and help the audience connect with the characters. I've also found it's good to leave some things mysterious, even if you have worldbuilt those aspects.

>>23002308
Like the other anon said, outlining is useful to keep yourself in check. I would say though, it's probably best to finish out the story, and cut out the fat after, in editing. I assure you, if there's not plenty of fat, then you haven't written one book, you've written two. The intuitive solution is then to split them.

>>23003264
The ones making real money off of it work at it like a regular job. You can get *a lot* of writing done in eight dedicated, focused hours.

>>23004095
You don't want to do an intentionally hard-to-read section immediately. It just makes you sound incapable. Later on in the story, it can work, when the reader knows that you know what you're doing.

Why is it wrong to kill your enemies? Has being a peace loving, forgiving little faggot ever actually succeeded in real life?

>>23013070
Mlk, ghandi, etc

>>23000816
(1)

>>23000816
(2)

>>23000816
(3)
Little sample of an opening to a chapter

>>23012024
kill yourself

>>23013046
>general mainstream layman
You repeat yourself over and over, which makes the work redundant and repetitive by saying the same thing two or three times again and again when once would have sufficed.

>>23013229
>heard enough spectacle
what?
>...if the wetness within them seemed to grow fond of lingering in such a way that it made appear more like some...
These sentences are long and ungainly. Cut the fat. Simplify. Try reading them out loud to make sure they sound like something a human might say.

What ai's have you tried to use as a writing assistant?
I tried GPT first, then Bard, then Bing, and they're really not good. Asking simple questions often leads to derailment as the ai starts taking the conversation on a tangent.
I'll ask it for feedback on a passage and it'll rewrite a shittier version of the passage I gave it. Or it'll give me absolutely retarded feedback for the passage not seeing the symbolism or underlining themes.
Ai seems like a meme, but it also seems like a crutch I need to just have a partner to converse with about brainstorming, plot holes, or editing.
I feel like there is something of value there, I just haven't found it, or found out how to get my desired result.

>>23013070
Society and civilization would collapse if all conflicts were settled through lethal violence.

>>23013352
I treat AI like a wall for me to bounce at tennis ball off of. Sometimes there are things which are not worth putting your own creativity into. Let the AI spitball a thing or two, then you reflect on the quality of its output, then reiterate by adding new prompts until an idea is really fleshed out.

Haven't written anything seriously in years. Not sure where I want to go with this, but we'll see.

>>23013324
Does every text have to be in some vulgar vernacular?

>>23011046
>Like a painting of autumn woods by Bierstadt

>>23013070
Ask jesus

>>23013070
>Why is it wrong to kill your enemies?
All life has value
You deny yourself a potential ally
You would be letting everyone know that against you it's either victory or death

>>23013070
Killing is weakness. It means you're afraid of your enemy and doubt your own strength. It means you're too stupid to come up with other ways to solve your problems, but rely on the easiest, most primitive method. You accept the spite of everyone else in the world, and resign to living in ignorance and fear, and such a man will never run out of enemies. When you kill your foe, it is your own self you defeat.

>>23013352
I ask Bing questions, but I don't let it write anything.
I've tried the one built into Google docs, I've tried GPT, but they can't write anything of a quality that I like and it doesn't sound like me.
There is one somewhat interesting thing that happened with GPT once however.
I wrote a section in which a man is stuck on a ship floating through a magical fog and a sea god appears.
Both my version and the version written by GPT had the detail of the god singing sailors laments as it walked the deck.

>>23013352
>Or it'll give me absolutely retarded feedback for the passage not seeing the symbolism or underlining themes.

Nigga it's a glorified random word generator, not fucking Jarvis. How fucking retarded do you have to be to expect a toaster to understand symbolism? It blows my mind every day to know there are people who talk to these things as if they could actually understand a word you tell them, holy hell

>>23014061
You sound like a pansy little faggot.

>>23014264
Honestly this. I’ve seen people respond with stupid shit like >>23013999 or >>23013177, too. Great. People said “violence bad.” They could be wrong. Them saying it means nothing.
Are there any examples of a nation responding to war with “let’s hug it out” and it’s worked?

>>23000816
I'm a neet, could this be a way out?

>>23014325
The solution was not hugging but a globalized economy has helped prevent major conflicts between major powers of the world up to now in a way.

>>23014532
Don't count on it.

which of these sounds like the more 'hooking' intro?
>an invasion of the 'evil' forces is described in detail as our MC flees the scene as an ambassador
>MC and a good friend are running an errand when they come across a massacre by the 'evil' forces

The second option adds more "flavour" to the world so to say.

>>23014264
You sound angry. Anger stems from feelings of impotence. It's a fragile person's desperate last effort to control things, doomed to fail

>>23014561
So absent of a global economy, they’re wrong.

>>23014683
https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/topical-studies/5-times-jesus-got-angry.html

>>23014705
You don't need a global economy. You just need an economy where both sides benefit. A global economy arises from innovations in transportation and communication as well as individual countries having their personal networks of trading partners.

I woke up onboard inside a passenger plane. It is my assumption that the droning on of the plane’s engines and the vibrations from flying had woke me up. I was feeling aimless and also mindless even as I looked around near me. I looked around my seating compartment in a half awakened state and to my pleasure I saw Max sitting closely in the seat next to me. She was already alertly peering at me with keen interest. I restructured my body by grasping at my seat and pulling myself up. Before I could get a word in to Max she leaned in towards me and spoke up.

wdyt?

I ain't him, but changing text that doesn't make sense because the author doesn't know how to use some words properly to something straightforward and correct is "vulgar vernacular"? There is no discussion to be had about word choice when the writing is wrong.

>>23014735
>I woke up
Dropped.

>>23014730
Then how has war ever happened?
Even then, I guess I missed the parts in Jesus’s, or MLL’s, or Gandhi’s words where they said peace is best for mutual beneficial economical reasons. I recall them focusing more on some wishy-washy bullshit. I guess we can say they were right for the wrong reasons.

>>23014885
I know. So unrealistic. No one in the history of the world has woken up ever.

>>23014898
Not him, but your next line also says that he woke up. Nothing is lost by removing the first part, and while I don't mind it, waking up as the start to a story is very common.

>>23014735
there are a lotta problems with this. You repeat "woke" and the second instance is wrong -- it's had woken, not had woke. "Onboard inside" is redundant. you might as well have said "I woke up inside within". You switch to present tense when you say "It is my assumption" (wrong). "aimless and also mindless" is redundant and needs to be tightened up. The sentence with "Seating compartment" is a run on and the phrasing is awkward even if you fix that. "Alertly peering... keen interest": you use four words when you could use one. Just find a more accurate verb. "I restructured my body by grasping at my seat and pulling myself up" -- this is where it becomes outright comical. You don't restructure your body. You might as well start talking about the mechanics of tendons involved in picking up a spoon.

>>23014735
>I woke
Dropped

>>23014953
Get woke go broke!

>>23014936
I now realize that "restructure" my body is equivalent to saying that I've changed the anatomy of my body.

>>23015023
Fucking trannie faggot.

>>23014325
You should take a look at the literature around the axelrod tournaments: https://cs.stanford.edu/people/eroberts/courses/soco/projects/1998-99/game-theory/axelrod.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_for_tat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolution_of_Cooperation

It's a fairly compelling argument against the Hobbesian natural state of man because it suggests that small pockets of cooperators will out-compete other strategies until (assuming some kind of selection pressure) only cooperators survive. In short, William Golding was completely wrong (as evidenced by the real life counterpart of his novel, written about in the memoir Ocean of Light by Peter Warner).

>>23014061
You said a whole lot of meaningless shit right there

>>23014532
No, but this could be the way for you to stop being a piece of shit.

>>23013063
>You can get *a lot* of writing done in eight dedicated, focused hours.
The pros have like a 5 hour day at most, although I've never gotten a clear answer whether outlining, notes, research and editing drafts counts as "writing".

>>23015426
It seemed like the sort of thing a man would tell himself while he lay dying and a barbarian was raping his wife. “Sure, you may have ‘won,’ but it is really I who has won because I didn’t kill.” Just a pathetic attempt to assure himself he hadn’t utterly failed.

>>23013412
Your problem is you're writing to sound smart. But it makes you sound like a pompous idiot instead.

>>23011207
nta but polishing/rewriting your prose is what editing is for. Some do this on the 3rd or 4th draft, but you should start doing it now on yr 2nd as long as you're happy with the basic structure. Read a scene or paragraph and remind yourself of what you're trying to say, keep that goal in mind, then rewrite every ugly/boring/cringy sentence until you are still saying the same as in the 1st draft but more palatably

>>23014735
You're this guy
>>23013046
aren't you?

>>23001259
Can you give some examples of writing that doesn't do this? I'd be interested in reading them.

I'm honestly considering using the creative writing GPT for advice.
Is this artistically acceptable or the equivalent of passing off AI art as your own?

>>23015764
It's just regurgitated internet advice.

>>23015807
And AI art is just regurgitated internet art

>>23015531
How can I keep writing longer? I can write, at most, two hours straight without a break, but eventually, for some reason I stop writing after two hours have passed.

>>23003734
The writing isn't as horrible as the first thing posted but could use some work. I think you're going for a certain kind of folksy voice. You aren't quite nailing it though, so read some books with a similar voice and try again. Say it out loud and see if the word choice matches what the voice should/would say.

There's also some oddities with the way you've structured these paragraphs. For example, you start with "Henry was a heavy smoker". As a reader, I expected you to make something of that but instead, you go into him ruling over his family with an iron fist. You've started one place and then gone completely somewhere else.

The "ivory tower" comment is weird too, since there's nothing about Henry that seems to imply heady intellectual disconnected from reality. Make sure you understand the connotations of something like "ivory tower" and the expectations you build by using it.

What are we supposed to know about Henry? What's important? Those things should be first and foremost if you're introducing the character to us.

>>23015884
I'm the same. The mind gets tired after making enough creative decisions. What helps me keep going is having an outline. I must take breaks regardless though.

>>23005265
I'd read it, provided that the short stories were all distinct enough and the characters were compelling

>>23007761
Yes, it's fine

>>23007852
I like it although the move from an ex-wife that he misses to the new girlfriend Mary confused me for a second

Should I submit a story I know is horribly unedited to a contest just for the sake of it?

And how the fuck are you supposed to get 100k words edited in a week?

Does Aethon Books publish any comedy?

Don't think my script will even get past the quarter finals but I want to submit something to feel like I'm trying...

>>23015884
You take the longest stretch you can handle, reduce it by 10 minutes, then do it a second time. Which comes out to roughly 2 one and a half hour sessions. Some people can do 3 sessions. More than that is extremely rare and even the hacks barely break 6 hours without drugs.

>>23016550
No, someone may remember your name regardless of whether you are considered. Sniping the slush pile for other projects is not entirely uncommon.

probably obvious to most that have been writing for awhile, but one of the most important things i've found so far is to read genres outside of what you're writing
and to take notes

>>23017140
Yes. There is playing to conventions but then there is being mindlessly derivative.

Be honest with me, guys. Is calling a Japanese company "Holzklotz Pharmaceuticals" too on the nose?

>>23017258
I don't get it so no

>>23017110
thanks, you gave me the courage to submit this horrible manuscript full of the beigest prose you can imagine

Should you lie about your age to make yourself more marketable to publishers?

>>23017357
your comment is so poorly worded that i doubt you'll have to consider it

>>23014728
Indeed, Jesus was many times confronted by feelings of helplessness over how fucked the world was and it made him angry and agriefed. It's spelled there in the big book.

>>23015426
>>23015575
Imagine being so intimidated by mere words that you have to take refuge in murder and rape fantasies to cope. How insecure can a grown man get?

Here with a fresh start

>>23013070
Not sure why everyone is answering this as if it's a moral jigsaw. Killing enemies in writing is often the go to laziest approach for any setting where killing is permissable. If you don't kill enemies there's a high likelihood that you could write them in again, preferably with some kind of character development, or at least have some conclusion to their story down the line. Killing literal who's often has no payoff besides revenge and even the main antagonists might have flimsy motivations or payoffs if they're virtually meant to die on their first confrontation. If you kill every single enemy you will also never really explore any enemies switching allegiance, any sort of enemy that's coerced or the joys of JRPG MCs romancing the final boss and turning her into their loving wife. There's a lot you can do with a living recurring character and very little with a corpse unless you're necromantic.

>>23000816
wrote this when I was, 17-18 I think? pretty old, but most of my recent works are too personal for objective critique. pretty sure this was for a short story competition at my college.

I want to write pulpy genre stories because they are fun escapism. However, I want to give them a modicum of substance. Where is the dividing line between empty entertainment and something being worthwhile, even if it's a penny for my thoughts?

>>23017755
this is awful. please just get on with the story.

>>23017849
i don't know how old you are now, but i can't imagine wanting critique for something old-me wrote. i hate everything i wrote yesterday. i'm tired of this comment before i hit post

I'm having one of those moments where I'm thinking of a particular word but I've forgotten what it was.
Is there an adjective that describes a person completely covered in heavy clothing in one word? It's usually used to imply that the amount worn is overkill.

This is a really dumb question, but how do you outline a story? I know how to outline but not how it relates to fiction.

>>23018007
OK

>>23017755
> and not be raided just like that
There are some bits like that where the wording choice seems ill fitting for the tone you're setting and for voice you have for the narrator.

>>23018091
It's not dumb. Lots of first time writers try to write their story with no road map so they get lost and give up. Asking how to outline shows that you are thinking about writing as a task and a technical skill. But this is 4chan so vitriolic answers are expected.

Anyways, here is my outlining process.

1. Figure out the inspiration. The big idea that makes me want to write the story in the first place.

2. Figure out the setting and characters necessary for this idea. Keep things simple. Less is more. Don't overwhelm yourself with worldbuilding.

3. Figure out the central conflict, the main tension of your story that leads to that big idea.

4. Figure out your ending. What are the final images that speak to you? What is the ultimate takeaway?

5. You know your main conflict, you know your ending, now you know what to set up. How are the world and the characters before the main conflict happens?

6. How does your main character get hopelessly caught up in the main conflict? How do you foresee them getting out of it in order to proceed to the ending?

7. Cause and effect. You're in the main conflict now. Every event leads to character decisions and actions. Every decision and action leads to another event. Multiple interests are in competition. Every character who gets what they want does so at the expense of another character not getting what they want, which keeps the conflict moving and evolving. Your story may evolve but you have a big idea and an ending to act as guiding lights.

8. When you write your first draft, you will discover new things about your setting and characters. Do not stick to your outline too religiously. Recalibrate it on a periodic basis to keep yourself writing.

>>23018204
>chatgpt
I'd prefer being called a retard outright, thanks.

>>23018256
> long text with lists means ChatGPT
https://copyleaks.com/ai-content-detector?utm_source=www.ainauten.com&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=wie-ai-influencer-millionen-verdienen
Now I will call you a retard and an ingrate.

>>23018292
>medium
What's the difference?

>>23018088
I just ask the Bing AI whenever I have a question like that, and much like it, I think that bundled or swaddled would work.
Swaddle has a connotation of what you do to an infant to stop them from moving, or a child whose mother is making sure they don't get cold while playing outside.

>>23017478
What's the issue with the wording?

Thoughts on substack? I have a following on youtube and I want to expand my writings and it looks like a good option. Is medium better?

>>23017755
>word of this spread all across
All across what? This is mostly gibberish. Wrong use of semicolon. "In an angry mind", "it was sung and danced", "keeping powerless every suggestion" give me huge ESL vibes. That's not all but I just skimmed the rest. It's a huge useless info dump and you can skip it and start with the story instead. Stop trying to wax poetic and just write like a normal person also. The type of writing you are attempting to do is out of your reach and would probably be annoying for your audience even if you got it right.

>>23018204
I style my works after Kishotenketsu so this doesn't help me.

>>23013229
Stopped reading 2 sentences in. You basically wrote "the relationship ended amicably so the relationship ended amicably".

Brevity is the soul of wit anon, and you're a redundant retard.

>>23019081
so you have a following as writer on a platform not meant for writers and youre asking if its worth trying a platform meant for writers?

>>23019115

Then do the following:

1. Skip the central conflict. That's the essential difference between Kishotenketsu and most western storytelling. It sounds like a minor difference but it can lead to radically different results.

2. You still ought to have an ending (ketsu) in mind and thus a beginning (Ki) to set it up.

3. Use the words "but" (ten) and "therefore" (sho) to move the story from action or event to the next. Make each one a logical result of the last.

4. It says "Kishotenketsu" but your story will probably be more like "Kishotenshotenshoten...shotenshotenshotenketsu" in practical structure.

5. Let your story evolve as you write it out. Again, recalibrate your outline here and there so that you can keep on chugging along.

Has anyone ever posted anything good in this general? Are there examples?

I check in now and then and I only ever see the most cringe inducing rubbish.

>>23019364
I got five positive (you)s in this thread and 57 views on the pastebin. That's a win in my book.

>>23019288
Fuck off AIslopper.

>>23019424
> Step-by-step instructions never existed before AI
Zoom zoom.

https://copyleaks.com/ai-content-detector?utm_source=www.ainauten.com&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=wie-ai-influencer-millionen-verdienen

>>23019437
>look I can't provide a source but it's not AIslop, really it isn't!!
Kill yourself.

>>23013229
this is quite decent, anon. don't listen to >>23019288. they're the real retard. redundancy is not your biggest issue - it's the lack of sentence structure variation. revise your punctuation; you're missing a lot of commas, and a good few sentences are tediously long and padded heavily with irrelevancies.

i used to write similarly to you, and i always got the same advice: break up your damn sentences. i refused this advice for many years, thinking these critiques were solely stylistic and that cutting the sentence length would "damage my natural flow." i was wrong. hefty paragraphs where nearly every sentence is over fifty words long - no break, no emphasis, just clauses on endless clauses - don't flow as well as you think, especially to an audience that doesn't skim/speed read.

your imagery is beautiful. but if your reader is constantly preoccupied by wondering when your eighty word sentences will end, the beauty is lost.

>>23019442
I accept your concession.

>>23019446
What did >>23019288 have to do with >>23013229?

>>23019446
>>23019452
samefag, meant to quote >>23019223. my bad.

>>23019463
Ah, gotcha.

>>23019442
> A writer cannot talk about their outlining process without citing sources.
Holy crap you are an NPC.

>>23019467
>their
its*

>>23019467
>>23019469
* his or her

>>23019467
our

Any thoughts on pulp writer Lester Dent's formula?

https://www.paper-dragon.com/1939/dent.html

It will not produce anything but cheap genre fare but it sounds kind of neat to try.

>>23019467
You literally have no frame of reference for Kishotenketsu.

>>23019558
Yes I do...

>>23019605
>>23019558
... you literal faggot.

> Kishotenketsu
Tranime?

Idk how to develop the plot and think of an ending for my trashy genre fiction:(((

I wish I knew how to read or read a book when j was young but I hate reading rightr now

>>23019605
>>23019612
You don't know how to take photos and you're an EOP to boot. Embarrassing!
>>23019618
Anime website, cartroon cuckold.

>>23019364
Of course! Here is the masterpiece you seek:
https://litter.catbox.moe/ymtgpe.pdf

>>23019692
Cope. You got BTFOed on your own terms. I won, you lost. You have no credibility while I do. No amount of moving the goalposts will save you. I accept your concession.

Good day, you waste.

>>23019719
>buzzwords
You're literally conceding with every character you type. Embarrassing.

>>23019692
why don’t you use the proper term of qichengzhuanhe or maybe 起承轉合 instead of whatever gibberish you just wrote.

How do you transcribe your stories to pastebin without having it format each paragraph as a single line, unto eternity?

how can I advertise my book, get it out there?
besides the obvious action of buying ads

>>23019446
Thanks. I will absolutely try to make the sentences a bit punchier. It's good to see that the biggest flaw is something as remediable as this.

I'm happy to hear you find the imagery beautiful, because it means that I'm at least doing something right with the context of the material.

>>23019894
Also, I should add, it's interesting that people say that my imagery is beautiful when I find that I have a very hard time with setting and physical descriptions. I'm very good at character and theme and dialogue but I always thought that my scenes and settings were not vivid and it was as if you were reading a scene with talking heads.

Is Scrivener worth it? I really need some outlining and research tools worth a fuck.

>>23020028
No. Just use Google Docs. None of those specialty note taking softwares are worth it when Docs is a free alternative

>>23020104
While you have amazing bullshit tolerance and I commend you for that, FUCK GOOGLE DOCS.

>>23020028
I use TreeLine for my outlining needs. It's capable of much more than I've used it for. It's also free and open-source.

>>23020028
It was worth it to me. It's cheap and a single one-off payment. No subscription required or having to pay for yearly upgrades. The outlining and cork board features are useful to me, and it's nice to be able to organise everything such as research and images in one place. Downside is that it takes some effort to get the best out of it. It is not a simple editor like Word or Docs, it's a drafting tool. Reading the manual or some tutorials is essential.

>>23020143
I've been fucking around with the trial for a few days and it's extremely robust, almost too much for my specific needs, but the free alternatives only have some of the features I need or just like to have. This manual is thicc.
>real editing and revision control for writers
Yeah...I'm going to have to use that discount code and pay for the rest with my cash back for the month.

>>23020161
I use git for revision control. TreeLine files are text (technically JSON) and my fiction-writing needs are easily supplied by text files in Markdown format, and pandoc to convert to ODT and PDF.

>>23020189
I went macfag because reasons. Battery life and not feeling like fucking around with CLI unless I absolutely have to, mostly.

>>23020189
Sure you could do that if you're tech literate and have the know how to install, configure and use all those tools. Or you just pay $50 for a single piece of software that does everything for you and more.

So, new thread time?

>>23019865
Why not use Catbox?

>>23020214
>>23020227
Being dumb is expensive.
>>23020253
This thread is only on page 4. Wait a few hours.

>>23020296
Being poor is a waste of time that could be spent writing.

>>23020214
Do you also limit your "reading" to picture books? Or have you graduated to the ones that have, you know, words?

>>23020378
This isn't /g/, as long as a creative suite doesn't go subscription model and has regular sales and discount codes, it's alright.

>>23020392
I was talking about the difference between GUI and CLI.

>>23000816
new bread
>>23020439

>>23000886
looks like your writing just isn't that strong

Should I keep parts of my draft as reference even if I'm planning on completely changing what's in them?