/lit/ - Literature

>>23003783
just don't do things you wouldn't want done to you, retard

The fact is all is permissible. Wow! Now go live life.

>>23003783

You mean without God, you would have no sense of compassion, no empathy and no morals whatsoever? You just be a fine human being.

>>23003787
works great until someone does things to you that you don't want done to you

>>23003826
Do unto others what they cant do to you. Spy on thy neighbor, they cant be trusted. Pose as a friend, work as a spy.

>>23003826
then you do it back to them, dingus

>>23003826
Even if god was real that would still happen

>>23003849
But we would at least have a moral framework to decide whether it was good or bad. Under moral relativism everything is allowed

>>23003826
This

>>23003886
I don't see why it makes a difference whether something is "allowed" or not in an abstract way

All is allowed, all is possible insofar as you are capable of accomplishing whatever deed. Considering consequences, these are avoidable considering chance and ability. Morality is an abstraction, to be able to recognize this is essential. To transgress is to be human, or to go beyond.

We share a common nothing, to want a common something is to make life bearable, but it is not necessarily true.

>>23003783
Speaking as a sjw I believe god is a woman, and She wants my wife to have as many abortions as she likes

>>23003902
If someone murders my brother, and I say "that's not allowed in my moral framework, he needs to be punished", and the murderer says "it's allowed in my moral framework, I shouldn't be punished", who's right?

>>23003934
murder him and see how he likes it, like I said here >>23003835
retard

>>23003783
>serbjective

>>23003783
Christians who say this terrify me, as it implies that they would lack a moral compass without God and somehow don't even see how basic empathy and a desire to be good results in people aiming to be virtuous for that sake alone. You could argue that psychopaths exist, and such people need to fear of God to set them straight, but simply caring about others should be enough to drive you to good actions, and any motive aside from that is at best 'false morality'.

There is then this intuition they seem to have that their conception of God leads them to the right moral outlook, and everything else is bad, or at least untrustworthy, to due emanating from a human source (because how could WE be arrogant enough to decide what is good for ourselves, as opposed to trusting God, as we may each decide in different ways). And in response I can only say that this just presupposes God MUST be the source of a sole, uniquely right and eternal morality, and I reject that as compassion (for oneself or others) is the only real moral guide we have to right ourselves, and tradition (which is what I hold the morality claimed to be from God to mostly be, even though the people who initiated these traditions may have authentically felt them to be divinely inspired) tends to be useful guidance for cultures who happen to then endure because they follow it, but I do not consider it to be Good and deeply mistrust those who claim the practices of their culture to be the sole moral order of God.

>>23004029
Meh, lefties are the same since they can’t perceive a world without government, an caps are the only people with any real claim to morality

>>23003783
>Dude, but like I would never do such stuff

>>23004029
I was raised around people like this and I can tell you that if their hands didn't hold a Bible and their mouths didn't utter hymns that they'd feel free to hold bludgeoning steel and spit venom, religion holds these people from complete moral starvation, they're beasts hiding their animal eyes but pay attention long enough and you can see the Godless hunger that lays within.

>>23003783
Because they don't want to believe it

>>23004060
because it's not true, you fucking retard

>>23004039
Ancaps might actually be the most retarded people on earth

>>23004067
nah commies are still dumber

>>23004062
Yeah it is. Lmao. Where do you think reality and conscience come from? Nowhere?

>>23003934
>who's right?
Whoever succeeds, next question

Those who abandon God see no authority above manmade institutions such as the state, media, academia, and so on.

Rejecting the perfect guiding light of the divine, they are easily molded by the imperfect whims of mankind.

God is a refuge and a stronghold from the many paths and works of sin and self-destruction.

>>23004070
Where do you think God came from? Nowhere?

>>23004085
Source? The Bible doesn't count.

>>23004054
>pay attention long enough and you can see the Godless hunger that lays within.
Me irl

>>23004086
God didn't come from anywhere. God is All Things.
>nowhere?
Actually, yeah

>>23004067
Not an argument :^)

The kinds of people are as follows:
Utilitarians
Bigots
Bigoted utilitarians
Ancaps

If you are not ancap you have no morality.

>>23004107
Yeah that makes sense. If you don't believe in an unworkable political model that would devolve into sheer barbarian chaos within a week, you have no morals.
Lmk when you graduate from sped school

>>23004029
Religion was created by people with an innate sense of morality, to control and subdue the rabid retards without it.

>>23004119
Any other form of morality is simply the belief that morality is a club to bash your enemies head in, if your morality does not require anarchy it is subjective and therefore not morality. Ancap is the only political philosophy in line with the kantian ideal. It is also the only truly autonomous belief system, all others making you a secondary individual and therefore a heteronymous thinker. Whether it works or not is entirely besides the point of morality, but it just so happens that it does work and it works better than anything else, in fact anything else is a mere parasite on the beating heart of life that is ancap. Sorry about your mental handicaps.

>>23004151
If you want to abandon any form of pragmatic effectiveness, then sure, you can say "muh way is the only pure way" even though it will never work or make any contact with reality. Which means your "pure morality" is totally useless and the only effect of it is making you feel like you have something over others. Meanwhile a retarded woman who believes God talks to her personally is far more likely to actually help others and be a net good in their lives than your hipster ass.
BTW you do live in a commune off grid right? You don't use the grid?

>>23004039
cool 2016 meme image gramps

>>23004141
Atheism has killed more than religion.

>>23004188
Atheism is the origin of all savagery and of the most bloody turmoil

>>23004173
My way is the only pure way, that is the point I am making in this thread about purity, but ancap is also not merely that. The true utilitarian, absent of particular bigotry, is also ancap, for it is also the best system for satisfying the many. Capitalism is by happy coincidence both just and good. It absolutely does work, it works empirically and it works synthetically a priori, the only reason to dispute the functionality of ancap is to protest that it does not further your bigotry. And no, I do not need to be independent of inefficient state granted monopolies to say this unhypocritically.
>>23004175
Sneed

>>23004102
Any argument that you use for where God came from, you can use to explain where a godless universe came from.
>God just came from nothing lmao
ok then, a godless universe just came from nothing, lmao

>>23004188
False. More people have been killed in the name of Jesus Christ than anyone in history.

>>23004329
Stalin - 20 million
Mao - 36 million
Hitler - 6 million.
Abortion - 1,319,400,000 billion

>>23004324
This has been discussed to death already. That which is lesser is consequent to that which is greater, and that which is complex is engendered by that which is simple. God is perfectly simple and qualitatively infinite, and thus cannot be caused, whereas a universe cannot *not* be caused because its particular laws of nature and configuration requires explanation.

>>23004029
This is a midwit's understanding of ethics and the moral argument.

>>23004376
Why stop at abortion, what about all the babies murdered by a females poor decisions, or by her poor genes? Even if you do not care for the rights of the mother to her property over the life of a dependent organism, do you not realize then that women themselves are a threat to the life of fetae? Why is only baby murder to be punished but not baby manslaughter? Is a woman who falls down a stairs by accident and inadvertently kills the child she is carrying not also a criminal by the same logic? Here to we come back to capitalism being the ultimate morality, the ultimate christianity and the ultimate atheism, alpha and omega, the only logical stance whether based or cringe. With capitalism the child rearing process can be made separate from its biological trappings and the rights of the individual can be equally respected.

>>23004391
Bingo
>>23004297
OK so you get to be pure and totally ineffective, as I said. Have fun with that

>>23003783
Define "objective".

Now define "objective morality".

>>23004463
>blah blah blah blah

A human inside another human

Killing the inside human is the same as killing any other human.

Its murder.

>>23004400
Enlighten me then. Don't claim I'm a midwit and run off.

>>23003783
why do theists and stupid fucking morons keep saying this as if it doesn't prove they're giant toddlers that need constant supervision to keep them from doing stupid shit?

>>23004175
It is cool:
>vintage
>classic
>newfags don't know

>>23004054
>but man without the fear of G-d the unwashed masses are... LE EVIL
Maybe they would not grow up as evil if you didn't diddle them as kids, padre.

>>23004469
It is totally effective? This is all I have to say if you just want to pretend it doesn’t work, if you wish to point out why it doesn’t work I will happily plainly explain to you why are you are wrong. Ancap is both the most effective and the most moral reality, the true utilitarian, while not to be called moral for their faulty reasoning for being ancap, is ancap.

>>23004580
Technically speaking abortion is a killing in self defense, even an invited guest can overstay their welcome and must respond to being ordered away or self defense of your property is warranted, but anyway that is not what I asked, I asked you why you stop at abortion is murder, is stillbirth not also manslaughter by the same logic? Is drinking or smoking while pregnant not an act of assault by the same logic? If you truly wish to protect fetuses, if you are so bigoted towards a female in favor of special rights for fetuses, you must seek to separate the fetus from the female, for which the most economical form of society is the best path towards this future, which is ancap. With the absence of arbitrary law to hinder progress in any direction, besides of course the direction of advantages for bigots, and with the deflationary pressure of unhindered production allowed to compete and streamline and develop the most efficient supply chains lowering the cost of progress in any direction besides the direction of advantage for bigots.

I understand you guys are not very intelligent and capable of logic as is evidenced by you not being ancap.

>>23004768
>have ancap society
>secretly develop massive power differential
>take over society
Quiet

>>23003783
Because they are hedonists that don't want to be judged.

>>23004727
lmao horrible bait

Why do supposedly moderate atheistic people suddenly become so moral when it comes to sex?
Sex is not an inherently negative or immoral thing they wouldn't disagree with that.
So what if people had sex in a way you don't like?
Nobody got hurt at least not until the moral grandstanders make a big deal of it.

The reason rape is bad has nothing to do with the sex aspect and has everything to do with the violence aspect.
In the same way it's morally wrong to demand anything with threat of violence.
People will never get as outraged at an armed robbery as they will at rape even though fundamentally they are both just a demand at threat of violence.
So it can only be the sex itself that drives people into moral outrage.

At this point people will surely say "but what about the psychological harm". To which I would reply "anything can do psychological harm to a person".
An argument with a spouse or parent or friend can do psychological harm and I think few would disagree with that. Should arguing with your loved ones be outlawed thusly?

Sex is a biological imperative no different from breathing or sleeping. Just as you wouldn't bring morality into these things there's no reason to bring it into sex. And yet still this will destroy the average atheists fragile worldview.

>>23004773
The state is primarily based on consent, it is too expensive for even totalitarian communists to run a society with police alone, it also requires money printing to finance war and even then a resistant population cannot be beat, the US military itself estimates that 20 million revolting Americans would be untenable and only 5% of American colonists revolted against England. A totalitarian state of any form runs into the same calculation problem that socialism has, if a monopoly arose to control an area it would not be able to enforce borders without collapsing even if it was somehow financially possible. At any rate, if under unforeseeable circumstances anarchy does not work, nothing will have been lost, we will have gone from slavery to slavery.

>>23004797
>People will never get as outraged at an armed robbery as they will at rape even though fundamentally they are both just a demand at threat of violence.
>So it can only be the sex itself that drives people into moral outrage.

If you *seriously* don't get the actual problem here there is a severe failure of empathy on your part (given we're actually talking about PIV violent semen inferno rape rape, and not just 'rape').

>>23004833
Nope I don't.
I have as much empathy for someone who had all their money stolen at gunpoint as I do for someone who was raped at gunpoint. That is to say enough.
Explain it to me I guess.
I'm sure it will just boil down to a nebulous psychological argument anyway.

>>23004677
There are two aspects to morality: morality as goodness, and morality as law. Pursuing the Good is intrinsically valuable, but without disincentives for eschewing it, creatures who by their composite nature subject to change and thereby contingently as opposed to essentially good, prone to alteration and evil, will be prone to straying away from it; thus, God imposes morality as a law, to ensure the goodness of His creatures.

Now, God is by His simple nature an energeia -- activity. In God, there is scarcely any real distinction between His attributes and His operation, we merely logically distinguish between the two, because we cannot conceptualize of God in His ineffable and incomprehensible essence due to our delineating Him on the basis of our creaturely observations; all our descriptions of God are in some way or another on the basis of negation, whether as privation or eminence: we begin to be, so God must be unbegotten; we are composite, so God is ineffably simple; we exist in time, so God is timeless; we undergo alteration, so God is subject to change due to His transcending time and space; we are finite, so He must be infinite. We never truly define God as His essence is unattainable, we merely delineate the realities around Him in relation to ourselves.

>>23004677
>>23004882
We try to circumscribe Him, but He is uncircumscribable. We differentiate in Him between essence and subsistence -- ousia and hypostasis -- on account of the fact in creatures the hypostasis is ontologically prior but logically posterior to the many ousiai that constitute it, for all existences are but bundles of coexistent attributes, various universal properties predicated of a hypostasis but which cannot subsist outside of it; thus, we say that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all equally "God" because divinity is a property -- a numerically singular universal -- that subsists in all three hypostaseis, just as the numerically single universal property of humanity subsists in all particular human persons, no different between any of us. Yet when we say so, we conceptualize of the essence as a property as opposed to activity, and of it as ontologically posterior to hypostaseis: but God's essence is identical with Himself, and His Son and His Spirit are not due to the fact that His generating the persons that causally derivative and therefore inferior to Him yet nonetheless ontologically equal on account of the fact that they are mere extensions of His existence -- for to be a mere extension of God is no mere thing, as it requires ontological equality with Him on account of incorporeal, simple, transcendental nature -- is *part* or His essential activity. God is Thought Thinking of Itself, and in the process of His most sublime, supreme contemplation of His grandeur, He generates the Son and through Him the Spirit, for He comes to know Himself most perfectly in the reflection of others: His generating the other two divine persons is indicative of His omnipotence (for He produces minds who equally possess His attributes), His omniscience (for through Them, He most perfectly actualizes Himself by knowing Himself in Their reflection) and His omnibenelovence (for it is the ultimate, most sublime act of Love), but it is undefinable in its essence.

>>23004677
>>23004882
>>23004886
Thus, God is Pure Act. And being simple, He has a single activity: His eternally perpending Himself. Thus, Creation cannot be a second activity, rather it is an operation that is an extension of His essential rumination of His own Self. Ergo, the ultimate purpose of Creation is to serve as a monument to God's glory, and all creatures within it are destined for eternally imitating God, seeking to contemplate Him as He does Himself, but failing to do so; and in doing so, vindicating His ineffable glory, for even finite, imperfect creatures such as ourselves are left stupified by His magnificence despite our inability to fully comprehend it.

The skopos and telos of Existence is epektasis: our eternally circling around God, growing in our knowledge of Him, but never exhausting all that can be said and known of Him. For He is like an infinite well of water from which we seep, yet also infinitely greater than infinity, for His being infinity is merely a notion we have of Him in relation to ourselves -- His infinity is comprehensibly incomprehensible, but His essence is so incomprehensible we cannot even comprehend it, for we can have no direct notion of it.

Everything in Creation exists to facilitate our contemplation of God; God man made in the image of God, and his existing in a community is a most sublime imitation of the loving, perichoretic unity of the Godhead. The community of men is a symbol, an icon, of the Most Holy Trinity. We seek to attain its perfection, but never can, for the Son and the Spirit are extensions of God, His Being and His Doing, eternally subordinate to His will; God is one since in the Godhead there is one source—the Father; one will—that of the Father; one nature and power—that which the Father communicates to His Son and Spirit; one activity—that which the Father completes through His Son and Spirit.

>>23004848
OK, imagine you are a woman, an actual biological woman, with a working fertile uterus and vagoo (this is the core of everything, and you should already see where this is going). Actually, let's go even further, to press the point home, you are a woman in a time before modern medical science was functional, with no reliable contraception, and who's virginity was taken seriously and prized for marriage, and everyone wanted to be certain that any children you had were those of your husband (you can optionally ignore this extra supposition if you want).

You are confronted by a thug, or war criminal, who's ethnic background I will leave up to you to imagine, who is horny as fuck and doesn't give a shit about what happens to you. He can hold you down and fuck his sperm into places you would never allow, maybe leaving your womb filled with his rape baby. If this happens, your choices are now to either tear out the baby, or carry on to birth and raise this fatherless child.

It's like, if you cannot see how this is an utterly fundamental violation of what being a woman mean on such a devastating level I don't know what I need to say to you.

>>23004677
>>23004882
>>23004886
>>23004891
But in man, there are many wills and many activities, which only contingently and not essentially as in God align. We can never be like the Trinity God engenders, but through living imbricated in a community, we can most truly and fully come to know ourselves, for man can only comprehend himself in relation to others; and by comprehending himself as the extension of a community, he can begin to comprehend the community of love, will, nature and activity that God engenders through His Son and Spirit.

By learning humility through existence in a community, where man is compelled to rely on others as an extrinsic good -- extrinsic, inasmuch as he is compelled to rely on others to accord the material conditions prerequisite for the leisure necessary to engage in contemplation of the divine -- and intrinsic good -- intrinsic, inasmuch as his reflection on himself and others allows him to comprehend divine realities -- man learns humility before God; and through humility, reverence for and unity with Him.

That is the source of all morality.

>>23004677
>>23004882
>>23004886
>>23004891
>>23004898
As always, atheists are too idiotic to realize that in a world wherein God does not punish people for behaving immorally and merely allows the good to attain the intrinsic reward for pursuing that which is noble and transcendental, only those who intrinsically pursue the good do good; in a world in which he does, both those who do what is right for its own sake and those who would do good insofar as they wish to avoid being punished will choose to pursue higher ends. To this one might subsequently add that laws and their concomitant punishment have a pedagogical purpose: they induce the bestial and profligate to contemplate the good through habit. Men are insufflated through discipline and punishment with knowledge of that which is good and transcendental; many who are driven solely by fear to do good are instilled through conditioning with a desire to intrinsically pursue the good.

Furthermore, midwitted atheists misapprehend that morality depends on God in two senses: an ontological sense, and a legalistic sense. God, being the most highest and transcendental reality, is the telos and skopos of all that lower realities depend on and find most desirous. All the carnal pleasures of this plane are false desires, mediated desires for the ultimate and most sublime reality that is God; indulgence in the hedonistic passions is fictive, finite, fissiparous, fleeting form of pleasure, tiresome and inpermanent, whereas unity with God in His energies is the most highest form of self-actualization, the most supremely sublime and fulfilling bliss. Without any sort higher supranatural realities, there is little reason to eschew dissipation in the atavistic instincts of this world -- little reason not to succumb to the desire to satiate each vile passion at the expense of others. Since doing good to others is not itself a path to fulfillment, since there is no higher telos beyond the material, morality is a mirage.

>>23004677
>>23004882
>>23004886
>>23004891
>>23004898
>>23004903
It is only subsequently that morality depends on God as a Lawgiver, who punishes those who deviate from their telos in His transcendental being; His being the metaphysical principle that engenders the Good as the Supreme Good and His being the Will imposes norms on our wills is mutually complementary, since His Will is identical to His Intellect; His Laws are a reflection of His most perfect Wisdom and could not be any other way, and His being the ontological basis for the Good induces Him to impose His moral laws upon to guide us to Himself.

>>23004892
Okay so now imagine you just had someone steal everything you own now you are homeless and starving. Somehow I'm supposed to believe this is not as bad as losing your virginity or paying a couple hundred dollars for an abortion or having a kid (something that people choose to do every day)?

>>23003819
all are wicked.
you gotta teach your youngin not to take what's not their own, not to do inappropriate things, the moral imperative of the wild child is to do what thou wilt, as such, God is indeed necessary to teach to a heathen. You'd know these things if you had ever been around a kid growing up, or had the slightest honest insight, but hey. maybe you'll learn that too, after you learn to pray and render glory where it is due.

>>23004917
nta but your comparison is completely childish
the only way you could even try to compare getting robbed to getting raped was to invent this ridiculous scenario where a person loses literally every possession they own, as if that’s something that happens every day. You’re not amoral, you’re just a fucking retarded gorilla nigger

>>23004917
>Okay so now imagine you just had someone steal everything you own now you are homeless and starving

If something this severe were to happen, and someone were to actually succeed in wiping out someone's whole life savings, making most of their working life for nothing, and leaving you with no means of getting it or your previous life back, that would certainly be worth taking deadly seriously and may absolutely have a more devastating effect on someone's life, maybe even to the point where they may rather have been raped.

But surely you see how it is generally perfectly reasonable to treat rape as a far more serious crime than petty theft in general, and that cash is more recoverable than the harm done to a woman who has her body abused by rape? You can compared to most devastating possible burglary to the mildest 'real' rape, but that you have to go to such extremes to make the comparison is telling.

>>23003783
There is no God and human morality converges on a set of ideas anyway. This thanks to basic evolutionary incentives promoting a tit for tat morality you can even test to find in other animals like apes.

Strangely the christfags can’t really cope with jews copypasting most of their religion from earlier sources, morality pre-existing the kikes, or that they actively disbelieve or deny half the content of their kike on a stick book they claim is the source of all morality. When god sends bears to kill kids for mocking a bald guy it’s just metaphor (for what we’ll never know). When god sends heebs to kill babies it’s actually good because he’s also the only one who gets to decide what’s moral! But if you hear a message from god telling you to kill babies it’s wrong because that’s obviously evil. Or my favourite; “yes god in the OT is a violent psychopath but you see that all changes in the NT with Jeeeeeesus”. Ah ok, the source of objective morality changed his mind on what objective morality is. Good one fucktard.

>>23004734
Your tunnels have wi-fi now?

Abortion is a force for good in the world
Every foetus that has been expelled from a womb through abortion is a cause for celebration
God bless Abortion!

>>23005001
this post is as limp as my dick

>>23003783
The idea of a god doesn't prove there is a god.

>>23005011
Jews have tunnels

>>23004970
>>23004984
You fell for it so easily.
Okay if you concede that there is a point where robbery does indeed become equivalent in severity to rape then what is the threshold amount of stuff that needs to be stolen to be equal to rape in your mind? Let's just say maybe it is everything. Ah but then everything means something very different to a poor man than it does to a rich man doesn't it? But surely a poor man values what little they have more... or do they? And what if the poor man was a rapist who was orphaned and as a child and the rich man opened the orphanage because he was beaten as a child and the woman the poor man raped was the rich man's wife but then she fell in love with the poor man and forgave him and they started having an affair and eventually had children which they then proceeded to beat.
See this is the issue with engaging in the victim Olympics. Who has it worse? What I know is that it's not for me to say. I won't become more outraged at rape simply because it is the public sentiment. And logically there is no reason for them to become more outraged either. You can all have some empathy from me but not more or less because I'm not so full of myself to think it's worth to make a difference.

>>23004905
Fucking schizo nigger retard no one is going to read your walls of text and decipher what retarded argument you're making. Next time condense your point instead of writing paragraphs of masturbatory text because you've deluded yourself into thinking you're intelligent and enlightened. God I hate this type of religious schizo posting so much just make a real point you retard.

>>23003835
yeah, what if the guy is too powerful and fucking kills you

>>23005118
Just say you're too retarded too comprehend what I'm saying, anon.

>>23003783
There were men in history who used God to make all of their actions permissible, too. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

>>23004086
Wow, perhaps you'll do better then 4chan with reddit mister since I heard the really educated and rational people are there

>>23004391
Poor anon. I think you're wasting your time with pseudo intelligent reddit atheists in this chat since they're so stuck on anything that fits their bias no matter how shallow the understanding for religion it may be.

>>23004029
>>23004054
What the fuck, these kinds of Christians are straight up larval ubermenschen who only need the opposite of divine intervention to kickstart their metamorphosis into Romantic heroes

where do you find these people?

>>23005470
I should say neotenic or retarded ubermenschen rather than larval

Because it would mean that progressive utopians don’t actually have moral superiority and that would mean that they have nothing. The whole claim is that scientific “discovery” and technological innovations are fundamentally good for humanity. If that’s exposed as a sham, their entire worldview, indeed their entire lives and even history itself as understood by them falls into skeptical meaninglessness.

Ironically, we are getting to that point anyway since scientism is refuting itself in real time.

>>23005423
But the difference is that the nature of any God is one that has will, which means “what to do” proceeds from any understanding of God. In any one case, what actions a man justifies with a God may or may not be justified. In the case of science and especially scientific atheism, it can only describe what is the case but never what should be done. The eagerness with which scientific atheists want to ascribe some ethical mandate on the basis of what is “good” per Darwinian evolution or whatever is nothing more than a logical leap that contradicts itself. Even if evolution was the case, it really did happen, it wouldn’t want anything in particular from you. It fails to address the question of “what to do” and only answers “what is done” i.e. moral relativism. That prominent scientists and atheists went two centuries without realizing this and coaching the popular masses into the same is an embarrassing blemish on history. Once you realize it, you realize that the whole of modernity from Descartes and the rise of liberalism to present is about nothing more than refusing to engage with religious questions and pretending in doing so that you’ve answered them.

>>23003783
>>23003849
>>23003886
I was shocked to learn that there are people in this world who actually believe in living a life with a decision making process based solely on their own idea of morality.

How do you decide what is morally correct? The question is an answer in itself. The self determines and litigates responsibility to others whether it be the Bible, God, etc. Your morality is always correct because your intention is based on your understanding of moral righteousness.

For a long time I could not understand why there are irrational decision makers in this world who create horrific long term consequences for themselves knowing what the consequences would be or did these things regardless of the consequences. To them, the intention of being moral is the only step in the matter.

Does anyone follow what I'm saying?

>>23003783
police enforce morality
just as hell is the threat for bad behavior, so is prison
so its more like "all is permissible*" *except if the state doesn't like it and you get caught

>>23003783
A thread full of people who think "all is permissable" means "all is advisable".

The truth is the nihilists who refuse to admit this are untermensch who recognize that they will be on the receiving end of the atrocities their worldview permits. They are not ready for the death of God and Christianity as Nietzsche pointed out.

>>23004329
Source?

>>23005257
>God made men; Samuel Colt made men equal

>>23005464
>better then

>>23004391
>God is perfectly simple and qualitatively infinite
gonna need a citation on that claim

>>23006005
America: the Book

>>23003819
What if I think raping someone or murdering someone and taking all their money and property is being a 'fine' human being? If God doesn't exist, you have no basis for your moral principals or definitions of 'good' or 'fine'. See the issue?

>>23006114
>I don't want to be raped or murdered
>therefore, I should not rape or murder
wow, that was so hard

>>23005527
Your god mutilates baby penises. I'm sure he would have no problem letting you rape and murder. The bible is fake. It was probably written by some blasphemer trying to sanitize god's REAL message.

>>23006123
I don't succumb to the maxim 'do to others as you would be done by' because I don't believe that, so your point is irrelevant.

Besides, that isn't the issue at hand, the issue is defining being 'fine' or 'good'. You are stating them as if they are objective and understood by all, but wihtout God and His ordinations as the authority, how can they be objective? If God doesn't exist, everything is subjective, and if everything is subjective, I am perfectly capabale and allowed to define 'good' and 'fine' as I see fit, and you can't change tell me otherwise.

>>23006114
Your god commands you to mutilate baby penises and sacrifice their foreskins to him. I'm sure he would have no problem letting you rape and murder. The bible is fake. It was probably written by some blasphemer trying to sanitize god's REAL message.

>>23006141
Now you're getting into tenents of a specific religions theology, but I'm talking about deism vs. atheism, and the concept of God generally.

So answer me: If God doesn't exist, what basis do you have for your moral principals?

>>23006135
>if you follow my very narrow and exclusionary reasoning, then I am right
cool story you sociopathic retard

>>23006149
It isn't narrow. I'll type it again:

If God doesn't exist, what objective basis do you have for your moral principles?

>>23006151
>If God doesn't exist, what objective basis do you have for your moral principles?
"Don't do anything to someone else that you wouldn't want done to you." It's really not a hard concept to understand. Unless you're a complete retard, which you apparently are.

>>23006161
How do you know you wouldn't want it done to you? Do you follow that rule perfectly? Would you want to be called retarded, or a sociopathic retard? Probably not, but you called me them anyway. Sounds to me like you fail to live up to your own tenents. Doesn't sound like a very strong belief system to me, if you've already broken it regularly.

>>23006135
>I don't succumb to the maxim 'do to others as you would be done by' because I don't believe that, so your point is irrelevant.
How about this?
>If I were raped and murdered, I would feel bad
>because I am a rational human being with a robust theory of mind, I realize if other people were raped and murdered they would feel bad
>because I am a human being with the same basic empathy afforded all social animals, I do not want people around me to feel bad, because feeling bad feels bad

>>23006167
>Doesn't sound like a very strong belief system to me, if you've already broken it regularly.
Good thing Christians don't regularly break the "tenents" of their gay-ass sand nigger book then.

>>23006161
If you don't want something done to you, you know it is wrong. So how, objectively, do you know you would not want to be raped, murdered, or stolen from? On what objective basis do you know those things are wrong, and that you do not want them done to you?

>>23006161
>>"Don't do anything to someone else that you wouldn't want done to you."
plenty of people don't value one bit this subjective principle.

>>23006173
>feelings
Feelings aren't objective. Some people like getting raped, and murdering and raping obviously feel good to the people doing them, or they wouldn't do them. You're all over the place with your belief system.

>>23005510
>>police enforce morality
policemen are civil servants who enforce the rules made up by the mercantile and bureaucratic caste.

>>23006177
>How do you know you wouldn't want it done to you? Do you follow that rule perfectly? Would you want to be called retarded, or a sociopathic retard?
answer these questions, please.

>>23006167
Newfag, this fucking site was created for the sole purpose of saying things you aren't allowed to say elsewhere. If you don't want anybody to say bad words to you and still discuss your ObJeCtIvE MoRaLiTy go to reddit.

>>23006189
>murdering and raping obviously feel good to the people doing them, or they wouldn't do them
that is such a gross simplification I don't know where to start

>>23006151
I have empathy and guilt built in

>>23006211
Who built it into you? Random biological chance? If that's so, random biological chance also gave you intellect and the ability to reason, and if that is so, how can we trust it, since it is random? That would be like expecting a milk carton falling over, and the milk that spills out forming letters, telling you how it fell over. See the impossibility and absurdity of it all?

Either we believe in God, or we cannot believe in thought or morality.

>>23006180
>>23006194
>how do you know you don't want to be raped and murdered?
You're a fucking idiot m8

>>23006219
>YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT MY FALSE DICHOTOMY REEE
Religitards really are that bottom-of-the-barrel kind of stupid.

>>23003783
Because there are billions of people who don't believe in God but they have morals. Because billions more people lived before "God" with Morality.

>we need a made up character to not kill infants
seriously this retarded debate again?

>>23004029
Atheists who say this terrify me, as it implies that they believe that their own subjective opinions are objective reality and therefore would be able justify any behavior if they believed it was true. You could argue that psychopaths exist, and such people would believe they are that what they do it moral, and that they believe that they care about people no matter their actions, and any viewpoint to the contrary would just be another 'false morality'.

There is then this intuition they seem to have that their conception of empathy leads them to the right moral outlook, and everything else is bad, or at least untrustworthy, to due emanating from an external source(because how could SOMEONE ELSE be arrogant enough to decide what is good for Me, as opposed to trusting Myself, as I am always right). And in response I can only say that this just presupposes you MUST be the source of a sole, uniquely right and eternal morality, and I reject that as compassion is a nebulous concept that means different things to different people therefore can not be viewed as an objective standard, and I do not consider it to be Good and deeply mistrust those who claim their feeling and opinions to be the sole moral order of compassion.

>>23006219
oh my god, shut the fuck up, you're being retarded on purpose and you know it. people like you are so fucking obnoxious.
>hurr durr obejctive hurr durr how do you know tho?
how about this, how do we know we have to eat to survive, fuckwit? how do we know we need air to live? some things are just fucking in us, in our lizard brains and our monkey brains. And, yes, that includes not wanting to die or wanting our friends to die. What a fucking concept.

>>23003783
if pretending god is real is the only thing keeping you from eating babies i will not argue with you, but you should be physically removed from society

>>23006281
>christian
god says don't eat babies so I won't

>atheist
I say don't eat babies so I won't
>different atheist
I say let's have a fetal feast at planned parenthood

You can invent literally any god you want to make the argument of morality from god though. This should tell you that it is an arbitrary axiom

>>23006290
What's your point? That atheism is CYOA? So is theism. Wouldn't Baal worshipers have a different view than Yahweh worshipers?

>>23006290
If you need god to tell you not to eat babies, then you are a monumental retard. Also, there have been plenty of cultures throughout history with a god that tells them to eat babies. The Christian god himself tells you to mutilate baby penises. Now what?

>>23006296
yes but the theist argument is that man was created by god, not vice versa, therefore they believe that objective morality exists. the claim that they know what that objective truth is is separate from it's existence.

>>23006290
>retards need God to tell them not to do bad things
Congratulations, you've discovered why man invented religion.

>>23006290
>anyone not being an absolute ape
I don't want to eat babies so I don't

>>23006309
the fact that people are monumental retards should be evidence that they need to believe in a god to save them from their stupidity. the dumbest of the retards are the ones who think they have it all figured out from their own intuition

>>23006161
>"Don't do anything to someone else that you wouldn't want done to you."
Why should this principle of behaviour be normative, though? What are the intrinsic and extrinsic incentives to pursue it?

>>23006332
>What are the intrinsic and extrinsic incentives to pursue it?
It's self-contained, you pedantic nigger.

>>23006281
This was already addressed
>>23004882
>>23004886
>>23004891
>>23004898
>>23004903
>>23004905

>>23006319
So God, when in the right hands, is a behavior modification technology for imposing moral codes on stupid or barbaric races. But like any technology it can become obsolete. What happens when God is dead? Will you insist he is real despite everything you just admitted? What does that make you? Hint: retarded.

>>23003819
>erm, so you're saying if there was no heckin sky daddy you'd start raping and murdering?
If there's no sky daddy then where does morality derive from? The state? I thought all cops are bastards. Society? Way too vague and doesn't apply to social outcasts. Biological/evolutionary? Then it's just le chemicals and nothing is actually good or bad.
Without some universal force or all-encompassing presence, there is no true source of morality. But keep dodging the point by parroting "so you'd le rape and murder without sky daddy?"

>>23006341
No it isn't. If it benefits me to harm others or I harm others in the process of my pursuit of my self-interest and that which pleases me, why shouldn't I do it?

>>23006344
schizobabble is just proof you are lying

>>23006349
Because. You. Wouldn't. Want. It. Done. To. You. You. Stupid. Fucking. Ape.

>>23006348
>there is no true source of morality
this is true, you are just a gay universalist who wants lions to eat kale

>>23006350
Just because you lack the intelligence to comprehend it doesn't mean it is "schizobabble."

>>23006345
god isn't technology. god is the logic consequence of an objective morality. if you assert that morality is objective you must believe that a god exists. if you deny objective morality than you don't necessarily need a god

>>23006219
I would say we can trust it because it has so far led to the advancement of human society. What is built into us is what works best.

>>23006353
circular reasoning

>>23006360
>lemme just repeat my gay false dichotomy real quick
Kill yourself, retard.

I'm a committed agnostic fencesitter so I'm not gonna way in on God and/or morality chicken and egg concept but I just want to butt in that a board who ostensibly elevates the sanctity of art in literature should be at loggerheads with fucking AI thread images

>>23006372
it's not a false dichotomy, you just lack an understanding of logic

>>23006366
Strange accusation from someone who believes it's true because the bible said so, and the bible said so so it must be true.

>>23006353
So fucking what? If I am intelligent and capable enough, I will be able to obviate any negative repercussions resulting from my purported misdeeds. It wouldn't be done to me at all. That's not an actual incentive for me to not harm others.

>>23006249
time to move onto SA man

>>23006381
>logic
>THE BIBLE IS TRUE BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAID SO
Shut the fuck up and go pray to your dead kike on a stick.

>>23006356
you lack the intelligence to persuade others
>>23006360
>if you assert that morality is objective you must believe that a god exists
agree, but that's a problem since this objective god is socially dead outside of little villages run by petty chiefs

>>23006372
Where is the false dichotomy?

>>23006384
>oh yeah? prove empathy exists
Shut up, nigger.

>>23006382
you can make arguments against god all you like but ultimately you can't explain how objective morality can exist without an objective monad. all you are proving is that morality is subjective

Computer, generate "basedboy" eating "american burger" who loves "Science, bitch" and theres blood and lots of dead babies. the dead babies are the most important part. now i will save these and make a shitty terrible thread on 4channel

>>23006405
>morality is subjective
i accept your concession christlarper, now go feed a starving lion kale if you want to demonstrate otherwise

>>23006391
Are you going to go fuck a tranny if we don't?

fellas can't comprehend abstracts
I mean neither can I but some of you goobers really cannot understand things that can't be autistically quantified

>>23006396
>Where is the false dichotomy?
>>23006360
>if you assert that morality is objective you must believe that a god exists
You don't need God for morality, retard. It's very basic logic. You just spin yourself into a tangled mess trying to prove that you need God for basic human decency. I don't. Only retards (re: you) do.

>this thread

>>23006410
You will, since God is your only check against cruising for bussy in a DC bathroom

>>23006419
he's literally me fr

>>23006420
Come on. Do you really believe that an upstanding, God-fearing Christian man like pic related would ever do something like that?

>>23006430
you know there is an infant on that photo we cannot see

>>23006400
And what's the source for this empathy? Under a theistic model, a higher force molded the whole universe and thus all of mankind's innate intuitions about morality have validity due to our being imbued with a desire for our telos in God; under a materialistic, atheistic model, morality is but a fissiparous mirage engendered by years of evolution meant to facilitate and maximize the reproductive fitness of our species, which entails its having no intrinsic value as such. We are but animals who were programmed to behave a certain manner for the purpose of survival and reproduction: but since evolution is but an accident and not purposeful, there is no reason not to reject one's biological inclinations.

>>23006319
The most fundamental truth our society is functioning on right now is that "the human dignity is untouchable". Meaning nobody can be treated in a way that could harm them or their dignity.

>>23006430
I can definitely feel his male gayze on my anus.

>>23006438
>And what's the source for this empathy?
LOGIC. LOGIC, YOU FUCKING NIGGER.

>>23006145
>what basis do you have for your moral principals?
>>23006114

Have you ever heard of empathy? Even animals (who do not have religion) show compassion and care for each other and even other species.

>>23006438
>nd what's the source for this empathy
your fucking brain an millions of years of evolution that don't want you to kill your own kind

>>23006414
morality != objective morality
something that is subjective is something that is true but is different based on your point of view. something that is objective is something that is true and the same for all points of view.
for objective morality to exist there must be one point of view that is true, but people disagree on morality, therefore there must be a moral authority to judge people's subjective positions on morality that supersedes. we can call that moral authority god. if you believe you are that moral authority than take two people who disagree, both are god according to them but according to the definition of objective neither one is objective. this proves that if a god exists he is external to oneself.

>show me three peer reviewed sources of empathy or it doesn't exist
I thought we were supposed to be the smart board

>>23006444
"UMMMM IT'S LE LOGICAL... BECAUSE IT JUST IS OKAY!?!?!"

>>23006448
Well my brain has evolved to the point it now realizes that my instinctual inclinations are of no intrinsic merit whatsoever and therefore I can pursue my self-interest and desires however I please. Now fucking what?

>>23006464
it didn't evolve that way, that's just you being edgy on the internet

>>23006461
The amount of coping atheists in this thread show why we aren't.

>>23006467
On an evolutionary model, all human behaviour is the result of natural selection. Try again.

>>23006464
>"UMMMM IT'S LE LOGICAL... BECAUSE IT JUST IS OKAY!?!?!"
Yes, fuckwit.

>>23006477
go on and prove it then, you are even bigger retard than raskolnikov

>>23006414
>You don't need God for morality, retard.
You have yet to demonstrate this.

>>23006485
You have yet to demonstrate that God exists.

>>23006464
>instinctual inclinations

This is where guilt comes in, because that evolutionary "instinct" tells you the difference between right and wrong. Even Smerdyakov was dying from a bad conscience.

>however I please.

You still contend with the law/norms and legal/social punishment and ostracization, so no, you cannot do whatever you please.

>>23006488
that's why i am always willing to let them have "objective morality requires God" the claim itself goes up in smoke by itself like a house in California

Hilarious that people still cope with atheism in the year of our Lord 2024.

>>23006448
God I hate christcucks so much it's unreal. It proves christcuckery is a cult invented for golem who are completely divorced from nature and life. It's almost as if it was made for ancient cityfags. No wonder they looked down upon the rural populations that still followed their traditional religions and called them "pagans".
>>23006464
Yes you can. And if everyone starts behaving like a degenerate like you, that's when your society will collapse and go extinct. Which is why being empathetic and kind towards others is in your interest and for your self-preservation.
The world you see today is made up of people that evolved from societies that predominantly had individuals who were empathetic and cooperative towards each other. The once who didn't, died out. No god told them to behave that way. They simply figured that out independently using their ability to REASON. Societies with empathetic individuals survived and thrived the most because it's the most efficient and effective path in the long term.

>>23006495
i am all for giving Christians credit for the calendar but if God's coming he ought to have made it by now

>>23006484
>evolutionary processes imbue with both a desire for the pursuit of my self-interest and mutual cooperation
>I evolve to a certain level of intelligence
>my intelligence and critical thinking allow me to perceive that my empathy and moral instincts exist but to facilitate the long term viability of communal living
>thus I become a Stirnerite egoist adroitly selecting which seemingly altrustic behaviour would be beneficial to me in some long term sense but always carefully perceiving and partaking in activities which allow me to maximize my self-interest at the expense of others without any repercussions undermining me

>>23006495
Hilarious that people still cope with religion in the year 2024.

>>23006493
How does that explain most 19th century atheists' being notorious amoralists and most ancient sophistic immoralists' flirting with atheism?

>>23006508
How does that explain most Catholic priests butt fucking little boys and the pope running damage control for them?

>>23003934
Doesn't matter, if you will in a society that punishes it and they catch him he will be punished.

>>23003783
Nihilists don't believe in the im/permissible divide like all divisions

>>23006508
Who cares about that? Is God real because prominent atheists have been decadents? By my heuristic the loudest mouthed religious people are sex fiends themselves.

>>23004029
If you were born in a "christian" country then its likely youve been bombarded with christian morality through media and that. Its why when we watch anime for the first time our natural reaction is disgust because of how differently its done in Japan

>>23006499
Rural people love Christ and huntin', repent and start loving God, son.

>>23006499
>And if everyone starts behaving like a degenerate like you, that's when your society will collapse and go extinct.
That doesn't contradict anything I'm saying lol. You have not provided a justification for the purported intrinsic value of moral behaviour, you have merely inadvertently proven my point that conventional moral norms are the result but of an attempt to reconcile various clashing self-interests for the purpose of facilitating long term societal cohesion -- morality is but a social construct, social engineering, a noble lie.

>No god told them to behave that way.
LMAO all civilizations have some notion of a system of divine favour and punishment, and all ancient morality was innately *religious*. The consistent and internally coherent atheistic argument would be that religion is but an evolutionary adaptation meant to facilitate communal living by providing common rituals and values.

>Societies with empathetic individuals survived and thrived the most because it's the most efficient and effective path in the long term.
Which just begs the question why anyone should care about society and its long term sustainability in the first place. There is no afterlife, I die when I die, why not maximize my own well-being at the expense of future generations? What repercussions are there going to be when I am gone?

>>23004892
Sex doesn't have to lead to pregnancy. The medievals had methods to terminate pregnancies, that the women chose not to do this explains everything you need to know about society. You could even take your analogy to prehistory and argue that dominant men raped women because there is no way to get consent without language. Consent is a fleeting metaphysical concept when stacked up against raw human instinct, just as conventional morality cowers before might is right.

>>23006518
What a pathetic non sequitur lmao. These kinds of discussions really prove the vast gulf in terms of intelligence between 19th century atheists who being intellectuals could grok out the logical conclusions and inevitable ramifications of their axiomatic presuppositions, and modern atheists who are by and large regular people who feel too uncomfortable when contemplating what their deepest held convictions entail; atheism has become democratized, and its intellectual rigour has precipitiously dropped.

>>23006548
>women chose not to do this
oh totally, there were absolutely no abortions or induced miscarriages in the middle ages, due to the absence of hospital records we know it never took place

>>23006555
cry all you like about a lack of intellectual rigour, you are the one who used behavior as evidence for metaphysical claims in the first place >>23006508

>>23006543
>Which just begs the question why anyone should care about society and its long term sustainability
>tell me you haven't stepped a foot in the wilderness without telling me you have never stepped a foot in the wilderness.
So that you and your children can have a safe and secure life, you narcissistic retard. That was the whole point of forming clans, tribes, and ultimately civilization. It has nothing to do with god or indulging in eternal debauchery in the afterlife. To any decent, empathetic man, his family is everything to him. Which is why he will try to form connections with other people to gather more resources and allies, in order to improve his and his family's chances of survival. Family, your children, and continuing your bloodline are the ultimate goal of not just humans, but every life form on earth. For a social animal like man, creating society, cooperating with others and dealing with them with empathy is a way to achieve that goal.

>>23003819
>tips fedora
Did I go to bed and wake up in 2008?

>>23006567
Plants that have been known to induce abortions have been recorded in all cultures including the most uncivilized ones in africa and south america. Lmao this isn't some esoteric high tech knowledge like discovering penicillin.

>>23006604
no, people never had abortions in the middle ages because it was traditional catholic monarchy, the decision is grayed-out if you are playing as a traditional catholic monarchy

>>23006610
yeah people also never had sex outside marriage or stole or lied or cheated, and it doesn't even matter since we are talking about knowledge that has existed since before humans lived in cities, the fact that the catholic church outlawed abortion means that there were abortions happening

>>23006592
>So that you and your children can have a safe and secure life, you narcissistic retard.
I don't want to have children. There is no intrinsic value to it. I don't care about other people's children. I only care about maximizing my hedonistic pleasure.

>To any decent, empathetic man
There's no such thing, retard, only lumps of cells driven by the illusion of consciousness. None of this shit actually fucking matters.

This is all you have? Unsupported hysteric indignation? What a pussy. You're too much of a coward to acknowledge the repercussions of your axiomatic presuppositions. Unlike you, I have embraced amoralism. Papa Stirner guides me.

>>23006620
no you don't understand, everyone was moral until atheism was invented by people who wanted to have abortions, that's why the most religious people in America, black women, have the most abortions

>>23006630
Yea everyone was saintly back then which is why there were inquisitions and the drive for protestanism. Are you fucking trolling or just too dumb?

>>23006640
Are you saying objective morality doesn't work? That can't be true

>>23006626
>I don't want to have children.
Again, it's not about you, retard. It's about non-retarded people who are capable of empathy and don't need a god to tell them not to eat babies. People like you get selected out of the gene pool anyway. But in the meantime, decent, empathetic men have laws to keep you from fucking around, and make you find out if you do.

>>23004376
>Implying most abortions and murders aren't committed by "protestants"
Modern religion bends to the whims of the people and it's not going to stop anyone from doing anything.

>>23006574
You said that the notion that moral realism necessitates some metaphysical anchoring in the supernatural is self-evidently incorrect -- yet, most 19th century atheists were amoralists, and Classical Greek Sophists-immoralists were inclined towards atheism. This disproves your claim this is a novel sentiment when it has been entertained by the greatest minds of Western civilization. Plato himself constructed his entire system of thought around providing a metaphysical and epistemological basis for the conventional ethics assailed by Sophism.

>>23006665
>"NOOOOO YOU HAVE TO LE CARE ABOUT LE OTHER PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU JUST DO OKAY"
>"IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN MY HECKIN FAIRY TALES ABOUT GOOD STUFF AND BAD STUFF THAT TOTALLY EXISTS YOUR GENES ARE GONNA DISAPPEAR AND THAT'S BAD... IT JUST IS OKAY"

>>23006502
>>23006504
Listen, Christ wants to give you eternal life and you're rejecting it for silly ideological reasons. Come on now.

>>23006668
I said
>that's why i am always willing to let them have "objective morality requires God"
because there is no objective morality, so part two is a bit of a moot point...we are far from any objective God existing, or we'd have had him by now instead of entertaining however many necessarily false religions competing with the objective one. Perhaps the religion with that objective God has been defeated and all that is left are false religions? Certainly we might need to rethink our assumption about "objective morality" if this objective God were found to be demonstrable and efficacious upon determining morality, and not merely a social convention or behavior modding technology.

Anyone else notice internet atheists have been regressing in the past few months? There was a moment where they were starting to get decent at discussion and finding common ground on a lot of things, and even the old "leaders" of atheism are starting to kind of wake up. But now at the same time I feel like militant anti-intellectual 2009-circa atheism is making a comeback as well.

Is it just a new batch of 15 year olds getting access to the internet?

>hasn’t read Kant

>>23006677
Try living a single day without the luxuries of civilization, retard. Go live off the land and let's see how far you'll go without mooching off of other people's work and goodwill.

>>23006683
>theism is the intellectual position of the 2020s, because, umm, teenagers
Dawkins-type "new atheists" and co. have a soft spot for Christianity when confronted with Islamism because they are so old that their once "progressive" attitudes now put them on the same end of the political spectrum regarding this question as the Cletus and Billy Bob Bush-voter evangelicals they found repulsive

>>23006710
Imagine trying to distance yourself from "new atheism" but still spouting retarded "fairy tale sky daddy" shit like the atheists itt unironically are.

>>23006683
it's not atheism, it's post-modern progressives. they are in attack mode because we are getting close to american election season.

>>23006683
It's because of the homosexual Jew Costin Alamariu and his catamites on RW Twitter who hate Christianity because they are degenerate hedonists who partake in dissipative profligation. The kike successfully memed everyone into thinking that whining about Christianity is going to lead to spics' self-deporting themselves from the US. This emboldened RW atheism has helped encourage many non-RW atheist cucks as well.

>>23006710
Thy're simply doing damage control. They realize they fucked up by wiping out Christianity from the west, and at the same time gave them nothing to replace it with. So they are completely unarmed against Islamism, while wokeism (which is in love with Islam) is filling in the vacuum left behind by Christianity.

>>23006725
the new atheists were Christians who upgraded to a newer form of Christianity, not all atheism keeps christian morality and then chastises Christians for not being gay enough, new atheists allying with Christians to oppose Islamic ideology is entirely coherent

>>23006683
Trends come and go but truly the glory of God remains, anon.

>>23006739
They didn't wipe anything out, they were laughing at people who thought Harry Potter is satanism. The Christians were in fact right for the wrong reasons—Harry Potter infantilizes and infertilizes women—but the new atheists were still correct that there is no proof the religious can offer, and even now it isn't proof of God that brings them together but fear of the even more religious. Dawkins can say that at least Christians bless their homosexuals!

>>23006682
God is real and His Son is Jesus Christ, the Word, Wisdom and Power of God.

>>23005498
yeah fire

>>23006811
Why did God cuck Joseph? That's pretty jovian of him—I thought such gods were known to be false by their monstrous immorality

>>23006826
He didn't. Joseph was an old man who married the youthful Mary to be her legal guardian. He had already had children from a previous marriage.

What are the things you want to if god is not there exactly?

>>23006839
>married the youthful Mary to be her legal guardian
sorry that's grooming, i will not worship your immoral god

>>23006854
It was an turn of the millenium Jewish arrangement meant to protect young women. Joseph never had the intention of consummating the marriage, it was by its nature a celibate one. Try again.

>>23006872
Can I impregnate your wife? I have permission from the tunnel guys in Brooklyn, and they are pretty close to your God on these matters.

>>23006872
>Jews
>"It's to protect the children, we aren't sexually abusing them!"
Very good, golem! Defend the chosen people, just as your god commands!

>>23003783
Uh personally I don't believe in god but I don't belive he doesn't exist either, so clearly without ANY higher power or force there is no absolute morality, and imagining there was it's probably just as plausible to believe it's the complete opposite of what we believe morality to be.
Regardless I think people dunk on the "urm if you need God to be Good then you my friend, are Not So Good!" position for not the right reasons but not quite often enough all the same - clearly people like this should kill themselves and leave it at that but whatever idc abt victims. Unfortunately they're sort of right: if you do not experience the same shared morality of the majority of humans it is Moral (from this morality's perspective) to kill you and move on.
Many who refute the point of empathy are very clearly constructing a character who they themselves are not, not that this character does not exist on the street and not on four chan. Please understand that pure logic is not what drives people, the fact you have imagined a position where someone may be immoral does not refute the general rule that those who conform ( very naturally, it's not a particularly authoritarian situation unless you were cursed to have your personal morality have no overlap with general morality, which is unfortunate but whatever ) generally do well excluding the exeptions ( which urm... really don't matter,,). Anyway my point is you concocting a rational position on why morality without God is meaningless, is itself meaningless because the only people who think of it are bums like you and me or retards, so despite nonsense navel gazing you still adhere to some morality because it feels good. Everyone is like this except for the real idiots who in a true "moral" society by human definitions would be shot the moment they opened they're mouths.
Everything I have said is a true expression of my thoughts but I'm drunk and really like hitting the keys on my keyboard so it is hopefully unreadable

they don't. that's the point of nihilism

>>23006881
Marrying girls in the age range from 11 to 14 war a fairly common European aristocratic practices in arranged marriages conducted for political reasons. The expectation was that their marriage would not be consummated until the ages of 16-20. In fact, most of the girls were realized as regular ones.

>>23006880
They killed His Son and they are predestined to damnation, so no.

>>23006917
why would Yeshua ben Yosef die for every sin but the sin of having made him die for every sin?

>>23006811
Blessed

>>23006937
That's not a sin. You seem to be mentally ill.

>>23007037
Why would someone be damned to hell if not for having sinned? But Jesus died for the salvation of all sinners, so surely there is no sin too great for the ultimate scapegoat to take away. I get that this is all capeshit written by the vanquished peoples of the Roman empire but at least try to be internally consistent

>>23003783
>why do nihilists and moral relativist authors deny the fact that without God, all is permissible?
This is philosophical nonsense. Do you permit everything? Obviously not, there are things you wouldn't permit if someone wanted to do it. If they did it, you would try to stop them or punish them. Hence, not everything is permitted. God doesn't even come into play.

>>23007076
Incoherent babbling. Of course, it's only to be expected of a pajeet to have a weak grasp of the English language.

>>23006872
Damn thats even worse Joseph was whoring out his stepdaughter to God

It is permissible. Even with your invisible, non interventionist faggot God it's still permissible, you just suffer for it invisibly after you die.
If humans were generally inclined towards atrocities we wouldn't have formed the civilizations necessary for religion to have been invented. The idea that ethical behavior follows religions is ludicrous... there were functioning civilizations all over the world before jews started writing holy books.

>>23007093
You are quite psychologically depraved and morally destitute, I'll say that much.

>>23003783
Not even a nihilist but this a retardedly stupid bad faith response.

>>23003783
Because our conditioning that we have developed for our entire lives is not just going to not matter just because we understand that nothing is meaningful or good. I will still find out if I fuck around. It is like asking why are lambs scared of wolves.

>>23007089
neither jew nor jeet you silly larper, now go wash migrants' feet

>>23007133
it was ok for God to do it, and God is necessary, so it must be good, and therefore ok, and therefore necessary
see i can do theology too

>>23003783
>The web of present-day hypocrisy is attached to the edges of two realms, between which our time swings back and forth, attaching its fine threads of deception and self-deception. No longer firm enough to serve morality without doubting of weakening, not yet reckless enough to live entirely through egoism, it dithers now toward one side and now toward the other in the spider-web of hypocrisy, and, paralyzed by the curse of half-measures, catches only stupid, wretched gnats. If one has dared once to make a “free” petition, one immediately waters it down again with loving assurances, and—feigns resignation; on the other hand, if one has had the nerve to fight back against the “free” petition with moral references to trust, the moral courage also immediately declines, and one assures the petitioner that they hear the free words with special pleasure, one—feigns appreciation. In short, one wants to have the one, but not do without the other; one would like to have a free will, but would not for his life go without the moral will. Just get together with a servile loyalist, you liberals. You will sweeten every word of freedom with a gaze of the most loyal trust, and he will clothe his servility in the most flattering phrases of freedom. And then you go your separate ways, and he, like you, thinks, “I know you, fox!” He smells the devil in you as much as you do the gloomy, old Lord God in him.

>>23007155
Whatever you say, Mr "I haven't read past Exodus."

>>23003934
I don't see a satisfactory answer to this question, but they can't really answer it anyway.

>>23006529
You mean the same media that has made blasphemy seen as "just a phrase" or "just an expression" and on the lips of almost every person? or which promotes fornication, adultery, whoredom, and sodomy? Don't be so naive.

>>23007076
>But Jesus died for the salvation of all sinners, so surely there is no sin too great for the ultimate scapegoat to take away.
Only few find life, most perish.

>>23003787
Why wouldn't you do things to others that you wouldn't want done to you if you knew you would get away with it? Your egoism can easily justify immoral acts as long as you don't have to face direct consequences. See C&P

>>23006074
Retarded LARP by fat ass Americans.

>>23006592
Why would my loving family create the most atomized society to date?

>>23007165
You read like you're having a mental breakdown.

>>23007347
just being cosmologically argumentative

>>23006348
but i want there to be morality

why do i need to logically justify myself, why not just kill all the bad people and live how i wish to?

>>23007370
That seems like too abstruse and arcane subject matter for your underdeveloped brain. Perhaps you ought to stick to arguing about shrill and hysteric moralizing by mentally ill Jews like Nietzscuck.

>>23007505
>shrill and hysteric moralizing by mentally ill Jews
but enough talk about the gospels

>>23007549
>Gospels
>provide complex ethical system buttressed by assiduously demonstrated metaphysical principles
>Nietzscuck
>wants to have gay sex and seethes about his superiors in society

>>23007597
>buttressed by assiduously
that's pretty gay, you sure Nietzsche is the gay jew here and not you and Matthew?

>>23003787
Why not?

>>23006348
morality doesn't exist, what we do is a mixture of what makes us feel good and avoiding what we will be punished by the world and our peers for

it has never been anything but this

>>23006348
Libtard atheists will never be able to answer this without falling into a tism fit lmao. The other replies show this to be true

>>23003787
What if somebody wants to be raped? Or doesnt care about life?

>>23007643
About the level of maturity you would expect from a Nietzscuck.

>>23003819
Looking at the absolute state of society Anno 2024 I would say yes, without God there is no compassion, empathy or morals.

>>23007697
>waaah don't be rude to me
Where do you think you are? Go to church maybe there people will take you seriously

>>23007714
He wasn’t saying it was rude he was (correctly) saying it was a horribly unfunny joke made by a teenager obsessed with the epic mustache man

>>23003783
I'm not sure what "permissible" has to do with anything when countless untold horrors *still* happening after thousands of civilizing and moral progress. Why doesn't god do something when evil unfolds? If he does do something, then yours is a null question

>>23006348
>If there's no sky daddy then where does morality derive from?
Your neurobiology.

>>23007718
>horribly unfunny
the only thing horribly unfunny here is pretending to believe in God for culture war purposes

>>23007799
A degenerate modern like yourself certainly is incapable of grasping sincere belief, so it's understandable you'd be desperate to pretend everyone is just a LARPer like yourself. How many niggers have you killed and campaigns have you won, bro?

>>23007823
>racism
your religion is mostly black and brown

>>23007823
Kek brutal but true. Now cue the autistic screaming about christcucks and how jesus was from judea lmao

>>23007836
Jesus was literally Jewish. Not Nietzsche, who he was claiming earlier was Jewish. Is he incapable of being honest? I should assume his beliefs are genuine?

>>23007846
As I have told you before, Nietzsche was a deranged seething cuck who so deeply resented German society he came to loathe everything Germans in good standing held dear like the contrarian faggot he was: he praised the Orient and attacked asceticism because he wanted to attack their Protestant Lutheran values; he exalted adventure because he wanted to own middle class Protestants who valued the simple life; he praised figures like Friedrich II Hohenstaufen, long held in contempt as anti-German traitors to the HRE, to spite nationalists; he complimented Jews and Poles to spite German chauvinists. All his lucubrations about resentment are pure, unadulterated projection, fitting given his effeminacy. The Notebooks are filled with lengthy impotent phantasies about killing Wilhelm II. Nietzsche was a FAGGOT and spiritually Jewish.

>>23007846
Yep right on time lmao. Is there like a script you people go through each time?

>>23007867
This reads like someone who never read Nietzsche.

>>23007867
>>23007876
>when you're so bothered that jesus was jewish that you call NIETZSCHE jewish
anyone else find this shit hilarious?

>>23007896
It doesn't bother me at all that Jesus was a Judean. Most of the maladaptive traits so loathesome in Jewry are derivative not of their heritage, but of their collective psychology engendered by a pathological, resentful rejection of Christ.

>>23007894
It's kind of funny that this poster is somehow both mad that Nietzsche was anti-German empire and also mad that he was pro ancien regime, like make up your mind already were the German nationalists bad after all or was the HRE good? But since Nietzsche can't be right he has to keep stringing togethers bits he's picked up from econvert tardcath xwitter or wherever the fuck about how it's wrong to attack Lutherans if and only if you are Nietzsche, otherwise he'd be telling us they aren't apostolic, and that middle class Germans are gay judeophile atheists who have turned their backs on traditional alpine hornblowing

>>23003783
>all is permissible
According to who? There's no God, so according to FUCKING WHO?

Don't you get it, you fucking retard? In the absence of absolute authority, there is NO SUCH THING as "all is permissible"! What is permissible always depends on the local authority then, WHOSE RULE IS NOT ABSOLUTE — BUT LOCAL.

This isn't that fucking hard to grasp. FUCK.

>>23007906
If there's nothing wrong with being Jewish, why is Nietzsche "Jewish" for suggesting Christianity was born of Jewish hostility toward the Romans?

>>23007916
Way to go and expose yourself for how little you know about late 19th century and early 20th century German nationalism lmao. German nationalist thought prior to but even subsequently to the reunification of Germany under Bismarck was torn between a three way historiographic approach: there were Kleindeutsche, thinkers who believed that a unified Germany ought to exclude Austria with its non-German imperial subjects, and historically favoured Prussia and its Eastern expansionist politics, while objurgating the HRE as a wasteful, decadent anti-German empire that was subject to Catholic domination; there were the Grossdeutsche, those who supported including Austria in the newly formed German nation, were Catholics and thus had a positive view of the HRE; and then there were the so-called Ghibellines, radical anti-Catholic pro-Protestant chauvinists who exalted the HRE as a proto-German empire that fought fiercely against the anti-nationalist universalist force of Rome (which in reality was a major promoter of the national sovereignty of the various princes who jealously guarded their prerogative to rule over the universal ambitions of the German Emperors), focusing greatly on the historic conflicts between the Papacy and the Empire, such as the Investiture Controversy engendered by the Gregorian reforms and the war between Henry VII and Robert of Naples in Italy in the early 14th century, emphasizing historic ties between Northern Italy and Germany (Burckhardt is a good example of this). Most German nationalist thought was some mixture of Kleindeutsche and Ghibelline modes of thought -- but as Germany increasingly oriented itself towards national imperialism and Weltpolitik, Ghibellinism came to dominate. German nationalism was no longer about creating a homogenous German ethnostate, but about German geopolitical domination of Europe, not an imperialism where all subjects of the Emperor were seen as legally equal, but one that explicitly favoured ethnic Germans. The Drang nach Osten was seen as compatible with expansion into Italy -- yet common to both strains was a distaste for Friedrich II, someone seen as an Orientalized degenerate who favoured his Sicilian realm over his German subjects, a man who preferred the company of Jews and Muslims in Sicily over proto-Lutheran Catholic Germans. Friedrich II was portrayed and seen as THE reason for the HRE's historic decline. And that is why Nietzsche reacted against these tendencies by fellating the shit out of him. Mongoloid retard.

>how it's wrong to attack Lutherans if and only if you are Nietzsche, otherwise he'd be telling us they aren't apostolic, and that middle class Germans are gay judeophile atheists who have turned their backs on traditional alpine hornblowing
Who said this anywhere in this thread?

>>23007896
Ye you are the only one. We have already established you have a pleb sense of humor.

>>23007896
Yeah me
>>23007990
Suck on deez nuts

>>23007922
Let your hero Costin Alamariu enlighten you.

>Some time around when I was thirteen I began to read Plato and others, and later Nietzsche. I never had any feeling for or against Christianity to begin with, from my upbringing. I was simply indifferent to it, and its theology and ideas and imagery never appealed to me. I became hostile to an idea of Christianity from reading Nietzsche and the other writers I named. But this hostility was never personal. Then I was shocked when later I met people, most of them Jews, who expressed similar ideas as Nietzsche, or somehow glommed on to this neopagan sensibility, or some of its varieties. But then I found out such people were not genuine, but only hated Christianity out of ethnic animus and resentment, because they had grown up that way. Theirs was not a genuine and objective position, but a carry-over of a childhood family teaching and parochial bigotry. I found this highly disgusting and sought to distance myself from this.

https://theamericansun.com/2019/03/25/old-and-new-paganism-by-bap/

>>23007990
>atheism is for plebs
christlarpers are neo-fedoras
>>23007979
Are you fucking mixing up a king of Prussia with the guy who inherited Sicily? There was no "German nationalism" when Norman Sicily was a thing. You can't just skip 500 years and pretend the kleindeutcsch großdeutsche thing has anything to do with anything other than Prussia vs Austria. Of course you'd give up whatever German shithole you were duke of to be king of Naples and Sicily, that's a wealthy country at the time and one of the largest populations of any non-Chinese state. Why do you think the Normans had initially left... Normandy... to conquer it? But yes I could tell you were larping as Catholic. Nobody born Catholic in the English speaking world outside of a european history department cares one iota about what you are rambling about.

>>23008035
i have not now nor will I ever read the words of or care about your right-wing grifter xwitter eceleb nonsense, but if he makes you angry he might be right twice a day, who knows

>>23006114
>What if I think raping someone or murdering someone and taking all their money and property is being a 'fine' human being?
What is there to think about? From your perspective it's good, from others it may be bad. It's all subjective
>See the issue?
No
>>23006348
>where does morality derive from?
Your own thoughts, you make up your own moral system to serve your own self interests
>Without some universal force or all-encompassing presence, there is no true source of morality
Sure, I don't see the issue

Even in the absence of God, the theist brain still thinks as if God exists, positing and searching for absolutes, even though the basis for absolutes (God) has disappeared.

>>23006529
>If you were born in a "christian" country then its likely you've been bombarded with christian morality through media and that.
I like that you brought this up like this, because I just read this sentence and immediately thought to make the reverse point to what you say next before reading it.

>Its why when we watch anime for the first time our natural reaction is disgust because of how differently its done in Japan
This is exactly the opposite of my feelings. I always saw anime as a refreshing relief from the 'unnaturally fixed' idea of morality imposed by Christian derived society, and that has always been a huge part of its appeal to me. Like I said, I had thought of using anime, as something produced by a non-Christian culture, specifically as a counter example, as something that was clearly and intuitively "more honest about morality", as it implicitly recognizes moral action as something mostly derived from individual feeling and drives without being so tinged by this idea of there being an 'objective moral center' independent of individual beings and societies that things are to be judged by.

>>23003783
>deny the fact that without God, all is permissible?
Name one example.

>>23008036
>There was no "German nationalism" when Norman Sicily was a thing. You can't just skip 500 years and pretend the kleindeutcsch großdeutsche thing has anything to do with anything other than Prussia vs Austria.
Anon... please tell me you aren't this retarded. Yes, there was in fact within the German aristocracy of common descent and as their being the representatives of a German nation. The difference between medieval lateral nationalism restricted to the nobility and modern nationalism in its more proper sense, wherein industrial expansion, mandatory education, and mass propaganda all converge to allow for said elites to craft mythos on the basis of preexisting topoi to diffuse across a people a populist sense of belonging to a nation as one's primary identity, is that the latter requires certain institutions and conditions to effloresce, whereas the former is the default state of mankind. And I'm talking about how 19th century German nationalists in the aftermath of the French Revolution discussed German history you retarded faggot -- how they interpreted German history and the narratives that they crafted for contemporary political purposes. That is the milieu that engendered Nietzsche.

>Of course you'd give up whatever German shithole you were duke of to be king of Naples and Sicily, that's a wealthy country at the time and one of the largest populations of any non-Chinese state.
That's not how most German nationalists saw it. The rehabilitation of Friedrich II occurred only because of Ernst Kantorowicz's (Jewish Nietzschean, btw) biography of the man, which if anything presented him as the inverse of what he actually was. Of course, it is fitting: Nietzsche himself was widely reviled and despised until the Great War came around and a very selective reading of him came to be propagated amongst many aristocratic nationalist circles, who used him as a justification for a firmly pro-German militaristic socialism.

>But yes I could tell you were larping as Catholic.
I'm in a different church, you moron.

>>23006446
And yet you are likely not a vegan

most curious

>>23008041
Good on you to concede that all Nietzscheanism is born of Jewish hostility towards Christianity :)

>>23003783
>why do nihilists and moral relativist authors deny the fact that without God, all is permissible?
This is a bad faith and dishonest question. All is permissible under God.

>>23004677
Ethics are a spook and entirely artificial. What you consider "innate morality" are merely animal instincts meant for the preservation of the pack, and are no different from other animals.

>>23008036
>No you guys are the fedora wearing neckbeards
lmao

>>23008123
No it isn't.

>300 posts
>19 posters

>>23008110
Christianity is Jewish ressentiment, that is Nietzsche's point, you would know that if you read actual authors being talked about and not xwitter eceleb's hot takes on what they didn't read either
>>23008133
>he's too young to know that unwarrented and smugly talking-down to your opponent as being "too dumb" to grasp "your" brilliant intellectual ideas is fedora 101
you'd call me a redneck for not believing in science if you were doing this a decade ago

>>23008166
Yes it is, things more heinous than you can imagine is permissible regardless of how pious you are, and God forgives you for it. To suggest otherwise is to suggest that God's capacity for love and forgive isn't infinite.

>>23008179
19 images dingus. 97 posters

>>23008191
Jewish ressentiment is when their prophesied Messiah says that many Hebrews will be damned while many of the nations shall be saved for showing greater faith and his followers tell converts to submit to all lawful authority including that of the Roman Empire, up to the point of his recommending they pray for the well-being of the Emperor. Why of course.

>>23008220
>images
ie identities or ips.
>posters
ie wall hangers or images

>>23008224
>recommending they pray for the well-being of the Emperor
pretty sure the whole martyr thing was about not doing that, try again... I know it's hard to remember Christianity started as a death cult where you bait Roman policemen into shooting you, especially when you think it's about Gothic cathedrals and the Spanish colonial empire, but since you are supposed to be an adult maybe you can explore an idea further than "jews get mad when I say BC" or "trannies don't like people from Iowa"

>>23008246
John 18:28-40

28 Then the Jewish leaders took Jesus from Caiaphas to the palace of the Roman governor. By now it was early morning, and to avoid ceremonial uncleanness they did not enter the palace, because they wanted to be able to eat the Passover.
29 So Pilate came out to them and asked, “What charges are you bringing against this man?”
30 “If he were not a criminal,” they replied, “we would not have handed him over to you.”
31 Pilate said, “Take him yourselves and judge him by your own law.” “But we have no right to execute anyone,” they objected. 32 This took place to fulfill what Jesus had said about the kind of death he was going to die.
33 Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?”
34 “Is that your own idea,” Jesus asked, “or did others talk to you about me?”
35 “Am I a Jew?” Pilate replied. “Your own people and chief priests handed you over to me. What is it you have done?”
36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”
37 “You are a king, then!” said Pilate. Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
38 “What is truth?” retorted Pilate. With this he went out again to the Jews gathered there and said, “I find no basis for a charge against him.
39 But it is your custom for me to release to you one prisoner at the time of the Passover. Do you want me to release ‘the king of the Jews’?”
40 They shouted back, “No, not him! Give us Barabbas!” Now Barabbas had taken part in an uprising.

>>23008123
Verily, but not all things are beneficial

>>23008108
>most curious

Not really. Evolution also determines what we eat.

>>23008246
>>23008265
John 19:4-16

4 Once more Pilate came out and said to the Jews gathered there, “Look, I am bringing him out to you to let you know that I find no basis for a charge against him.”
5 When Jesus came out wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe, Pilate said to them, “Here is the man!”
6 As soon as the chief priests and their officials saw him, they shouted, “Crucify! Crucify!” But Pilate answered, “You take him and crucify him. As for me, I find no basis for a charge against him.”
7 The Jewish leaders insisted, “We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God.”
8 When Pilate heard this, he was even more afraid,
9 and he went back inside the palace. “Where do you come from?” he asked Jesus, but Jesus gave him no answer.
10 “Do you refuse to speak to me?” Pilate said. “Don’t you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?”
11 Jesus answered, “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.”
12 From then on, Pilate tried to set Jesus free, but the Jewish leaders kept shouting, “If you let this man go, you are no friend of Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar.”
13 When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge’s seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement (which in Aramaic is Gabbatha).
14 It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon. “Here is your king,” Pilate said to the Jews.
15 But they shouted, “Take him away! Take him away! Crucify him!” “Shall I crucify your king?” Pilate asked. “We have no king but Caesar,” the chief priests answered.
16 Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified.

John 19:19-22

19 Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross. It read: jesus of nazareth, the king of the jews.
20 Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek.
21 The chief priests of the Jews protested to Pilate, “Do not write ‘The King of the Jews,’ but that this man claimed to be king of the Jews.”
22 Pilate answered, “What I have written, I have written.”

>>23008246
>>23008265
>>23008284
Matthew 26:57-68

57 Those who had arrested Jesus took him to Caiaphas the high priest, where the teachers of the law and the elders had assembled.
58 But Peter followed him at a distance, right up to the courtyard of the high priest. He entered and sat down with the guards to see the outcome.
59 The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for false evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death.
60 But they did not find any, though many false witnesses came forward. Finally two came forward
61 and declared, “This fellow said, ‘I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.’”
62 Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?”
63 But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”
64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
65 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. 66 What do you think?” “He is worthy of death,” they answered.
67 Then they spit in his face and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him 68 and said, “Prophesy to us, Messiah. Who hit you?”

>>23008265
I am very obvious referring to the martyr-saint cults around Christians who would refuse to comply with Roman law, and not the Gospel narrative of Jews handing over people they found guilty of Jewish things in Jewish courts to the Roman civil authorities for capital punishment

>>23008246
>>23008265
>>23008284
>>23008294
1 Timothy 2:1-6

1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people—
2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

Romans 13:1-7

1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.
4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing.
7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Mark 12:13-17

13 Later they sent some of the Pharisees and Herodians to Jesus to catch him in his words.
14 They came to him and said, “Teacher, we know that you are a man of integrity. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are; but you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it right to pay the imperial tax to Caesar or not? 15 Should we pay or shouldn’t we?” But Jesus knew their hypocrisy. “Why are you trying to trap me?” he asked. “Bring me a denarius and let me look at it.”
16 They brought the coin, and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?” “Caesar’s,” they replied.
17 Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.” And they were amazed at him.

>>23008191
Some people actually have fathers and don’t just get all their religious values from the internet, pleb

>>23008305
Which laws precisely were those Christians refusing to comply to?

>>23008315
the irony here is unreal, guy who is fluent in xwitter eceleb opinions on Nietzsche and Christianity, have a (You)
>>23008329
>actually, nobody was martyred by the Roman authorities
Uhhhhh, so was Jesus made up too? Where are you going with this?

>>23008345
>Where are you going with this?
You would have been able to tell if you weren't a braindead illiterate retard with no reading comprehension.

>>23008350
christian hagiography proves my point, no amount of gospel citations will erase the martyr cults based around whatever georgius floydensis in the area had found a Roman official to agitate

>>23008345
>Another Christian defeated online

>>23008368
What agitation does Christian hagiography speak of, pray tell?

>>23008374
>nobody was killed or persecuted for believing in Christianity in the Roman empire
what are you, some marxist revisionist?

>>23008371
>i did it, i defeated atheism by saying christ is king, read it and weep you meek and humble plebs

>>23008415
You appear to be contradicting yourself. Earlier you alleged that Christians deliberately engaged in civil disobedience in order to be martyred, as though martyrdom was seen as an intrinsic good -- now you're claiming that Christians were merely persecuted on occasion (as opposed to perduringly) due to their refusing to compromise on religious claims of their faith, such as idolatry, by worshipping the Emperor as a god, as opposed to praying for his well-being. Which is it?

>>23008246
Why do you keep posting pictures of Italian-Americans who are devout Catholics while shittalking Catholicism?

>>23008420
Yes

>>23008446
>Earlier you alleged that Christians deliberately engaged in civil disobedience in order to be martyred, as though martyrdom was seen as an intrinsic good -- now you're claiming that Christians were merely persecuted on occasion
Both scenarios happened. You must be extremely dull if you think you can demonstrate there was no death cult associated with the "promise" of "eternal life" by splitting hairs around WHY saints were killed instead of dealing with the fact that they revered because they WERE killed, and that is my last word on the matter

>>23008459
real Catholics send their kids to parochial school to avoid mulignans and never think about theology otherwise

>>23008463
>Both scenarios happened.
[citation needed]

>You must be extremely dull if you think you can demonstrate there was no death cult
So according to you, nationalist cults of those who perished fighting for the Fatherland are but death cults. Thank you once again for showing that Nietzscheanism is just being an selfish, sniveling, atomized kike who worships material comfort and pleasure over duty, honour, courage, faith and the transcendental.

>>23008488
>it happened, and that's a good thing, and we should all die in the name of mediocrity
ah i can't resist it's like catnip, thanks for further confirming Nietzsche's reading of the slave morality of both Christians and nationalists, i do find these threads valuable and hope lurkers do as well, reminder to enlist and get blown up in Jordan or wherever defending Israel

>>23008524
>Pssshhht. Real great men masturbate to gay porn and eat cheetio puffs all day. *burp*

>>23008524
>I am le heckin special snowflake guys, I am not like other girls

>>23008098
Why didn't he reply to this

>>23008524
>NOOOOO I DON'T WANT TO DIE
>I DIDN'T GET TO BUY ALL THE FUNKO POPS I WANTED
>WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH

>>23008568
>>23008571
>>23008582
>*dies for israel*

>>23008246
>but since you are supposed to be an adult maybe you can explore an idea further than "jews get mad when I say BC" or "trannies don't like people from Iowa"
Says the guy dodging any discussion of metaphysics and metaethics to engage in Jewish psychoanalysis... but le based and stuff

>>23008573
I missed it, but no amount of German historiography is going to dig him out of his hole of worshiping an undead Jewish man while calling other people Jewish as an insult for not following his lead. Nietzsche was right, the German nation has no future unless it embraces Europe, both today's neo-fascists and neo-marxists believe this, to say nothing of the liberal architects of contemporary Europe; that just leaves angry christlarpers in the dust I suppose, apparently still mad that F2 almost united Europe from the black forest to the boot

>>23008600
>Jewish psychoanalysis
BZZZT! What is Christianity?

>>23008616
Christianity is the religion that Nietzscuck resented because he was an asthmatic, flimsy, chronically ill, effeminate cuck who fetishized health and material comfort for their own sake because he could never have it, and so he seethed like a soijak at any suggestion they are but a means to an end.

>>23008586
*dies from heart attack at 40 due to obesity*

>>23008613
The concept of Europe as a civilization was invented by the Carolingians as the Christian Roman Empire.

>>23008633
>you shouldn't value being healthy
>>23008635
>fuck you fatty
make up your mind you miserable faggots

>>23008644
So why was the pope so against having a Roman emperor rule Italy? Because Constantine "donated" it to him? What else do priests lie about I wonder...

>>23008645
Those are two perfectly compatible statements. It's funny how effeminately you caterwaul over about muh mediocrity but are too much of a midwit to grasp any philosophy deeper than thinly veiled justifications for porn addictions.

>>23008648
Because he wanted to rule over Italy instead. Oh and he had claims of universal authority of his own. Duh, moron.

>>23008678
>Nietzsche thought healthiness was a good thing, so it's a bad thing and you are a porn addict for saying otherwise
you have some kind of brain AIDS

>>23008716
Trying to comprehend my statements really strained your 90 IQ brain, huh

>>23006464
holy shit, you are retarded as fuck

>>23008194
so far, you made the best argument itt

>>23008269
Beneficial is not the same as permissible.