/lit/ - Literature

Story structure is the hardest and most important element to come up with.

>>22966566
Can't forget that ever-important element of writing, iniriir

>>22966799
I was trying to figure out why the hell this is so weird until I realized it's ai, they are really almost there

>>22966808
I feel like I can still tell right away. AI images always look so "shiny."

I'm getting ready to publish my first "real" piece of writing. It's a murder mystery, around 75k words I think. Is it normal for me to be fucking terrified right now? I'm really worried there's some massive plot hole that I didn't notice, or maybe the whole thing is just trash from start to finish. I genuinely don't think I could deal with getting a bunch of negative reviews. I would probably become an hero if that happened.
For what it's worth, a few people read my story outline and didn't find any issues. Besides me, only one person has read through the entire text so far, and he said he liked it.

>>22966854
even if it's slop being able to sit down, focus and put 75k words into a coherent story is more than most people and if you enjoy writing you can always try to improve

>>22966860
sure, so even if it's garbage, it might be worth something as a personal accomplishment. but honestly, i don't even care about that much. i just want people to like it, and i'm worried that no one will.

Have you ever had reservations of publishing/posting something you wrote because it feels too personal?
Not necessarily "the MC has my name and it says based on a true story on the cover" kind of personal, but still, that it comes from a very personal and "deep" place within you?
I followed the advice of someone to write something that is truly close to my heart and not at all "in" or "hip" right now to ensure it appeals to many people and suddenly, I am very reserved about even telling people about it.

>>22966854
How will you be publishing it? Are you going to let the thread know what it is?

POST YOUR WRITING MUSIC!

>>22966907
>How will you be publishing it?
Online.
>Are you going to let the thread know what it is?
Wasn't planning on it. I don't want my story to be associated with my insecurities lmao.

>>22966922
https://youtu.be/Gju58rNAAmo

>>22966906
I put a little bit of myself into most characters, no matter how different they are. It's normal to have various, conflicting feelings. I used to be more anxious about it, but now I accept it. Not necessarily story elements personal to me, but things I expect will be personal to others.

>>22966925
I cant write with words in the background, it would too easily bleed into my writing

How are you guys doing so far as your poluts?

>>22966906
My writing is such a soup of myself and people I have known, combined with outright fantasy and thought experiments, that it isn't recognizably "personal" to anyone who knows the whole story. If someone thought any one part was some admission what lurks in my depths, I'd laugh at them because that's retarded and how retards think things work. I also find that you have to fictionalize the real and truly personal, a sentiment shared by better writers than me.

Anecdotally, I know when I have something good when it is personal but sounds universal to some degree. The last time I talked about a current project, it was well received because I knew what it was about and the plot was obvious up to the point where stories become interesting.

>finally got to the sex scene
>doesn't feel like my characters
>prose now too curt but to remain wordy is not suitable of the moment
Have to find the balance, but it's interesting the characters passion led me to do that. Maybe it'll remain with tweaking so long as it doesn't basically ruin or ignore all the characterization I've built up to make it sound like it's two strangers.

He woke up in the middle of the night—sweat poured down his face. As he got off the bed, he headed straight to the door, leaving his bedroom. He needed to figure out where that mist came from. Packing his stuff in his bag, he left his house. By himself.
rj

>>22967237
Where did the mist come from?

>>22966799
Iniriir, lesser god of mortages and tax deliquency

>>22967208
I've never done any sex scenes, and I probably never will. Always fade to black, cut to afterwards, maybe include the foreplay.
Yes, I am a virgin.

>>22966854

Good luck, friend. you can always improve your prose with later releases a lot of debuts are pretty clunky but if you're good enough you can refine what you write into something better.


>>22967237

I've never woken up from a bad dream covered in sweat before that's only happened to me if I'm having some intense fever with it maybe add in a little delirum and fever to mix it up a litte. How is the mist related to what the man is going through psychologically? You're going to have to expand more on that and then it can be a pretty good piece.

https://hal.science/hal-00853806/

>The challenge of narrative automatic generation is to produce not only coherent, but interesting stories. This study considers the problem within the Simplicity Theory framework. According to this theory, interesting situations must be unexpectedly simple, either because they should have required complex circumstances to be produced, or because they are abnormally simple, as in coincidences. Here we consider the special case of narratives in which characters perform actions with emotional consequences. We show, using the simplicity framework, how notions such as intentions, believability, responsibility and moral judgments are linked to narrative interest.

https://telecom-paris.hal.science/hal-03814119/document

>Abstract. The human mind is known to be sensitive to complexity. For instance, the visual system reconstructs hidden parts of objects following a principle of maximum simplicity. We suggest here that higher cognitive processes,
such as the selection of relevant situations, are sensitive to variations of complexity. Situations are relevant to human beings when they appear simpler to
describe than to generate. This definition offers a predictive (i.e. falsifiable)
model for the selection of situations worth reporting (interestingness) and for
what individuals consider an appropriate move in conversation.

>

>>22967422
I hope someone gets my joke

The Kincaid was 6 before I started writing for a different character. I don't know if I'm intentionally dumbing down the narration because the poor boy isn't all that introspective or what but the difference is palpable. While this is a useless measure of what it is supposed to be, it is an excellent Style-O-Meter.

>>22967629
Well nevermind, it's an excellent assessment.

He woke up in the middle of the night—sweat poured down his face. As he got off the bed, he headed straight to the door, leaving his bedroom. He needed to figure out where that mist came from. Packing his stuff in his bag, he left his house. By himself.

The mist had been following him for thirty-five years. Everytime he brought up with friends and family, they denied its existence and shut him out. He didn't blame for not understanding. He had tried calling the cops before about the mist, but even then he could sense their annoyance with him.

As he trotted down the beaten road, the raindrops fell and hit his head. It was then he figured out the answer to his dilemma.

§§§

Standing on the boardwalk, he gazed down at watery abyss before him. If this was the way to stop the mist from further claiming his soul, then so be it.

He took a deep breath.

Eyes closed.

And he leapt.

>>22967656
>Rip it out !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x0COtH4Vrw

>>22967730
I once had a community college english professor who stood up on desks and did some rather cult like classroom control exercises on the first day, I immediately dropped his class and signed up for another at an inconvenient hour with the local red man and much preferred reading sherman alexie and discussing it with a grown man who didn't wear pointy shoes or walk across the tops of desks six times a year.

what are some examples of sex scenes you guys liked reading? I play a good amount of hentai games, and one of my goals in life is to get good at writing enjoyable sex scenes

>>22967744
Oh Captain, My Captain!

>>22966971
Fer reale, ret piod ale. Perfre free o wamle I!

I've been writing reviews and why the fuck is the Introduction so fucking hard to write?
I spent the last 60 minutes looking at a wall till I decide to focus on something else and ended up writing like a madman.
Not sure what could cause this.

>>22967505
Is the joke simply that it seems similar to in arrears? If so I at least appreciate the effort.

>>22967837
I don't remember a single good sex scene that I've read but I certainly remember all the bad ones.
Are you writing multiple sex scenes in your work? Great, please don't write the exact same slop word for word on every single one of them. Is the sex scene short? Don't bother, you're clearly lazy regardless of whether you're trying to cram CG in or don't have enough of it.
Writing a good sex scene is no different from writing a good scene. If there's no build up there won't be a payoff. I don't remember any good sex scenes because the good ones were just scenes that happened to have sex in them. The characters and the story were far more important for the quality of the scene than the eroticism of whatever was written.
If you want to write porn you could always just ERP on >>>/trash/, but this won't actually advance your writing skills in general.

>tfw pretty close to finishing the first draft of a story without a single woman in it
Feels good. Gay as hell but no one is having a good time or getting his dick sucked. Just twink misery porn.

>>22968006
Don't start with the Introduction. Start with the Conclusion.

>>22968877
Can you elaborate why? I remember hearing this in the past.

>>22968892
Not him, but working back from a conclusion is often easier than going from a linear start to finish structure.
I hadn't thought about it, but I find chapters where I have an ending in mind easier to write then chapters where I have the start in mind.

I recall hearing that reading makes you more empathic towards others.I've never put much thought and no research into it, but my conclusion is that because you can empathize with fictional characters without even having a face or voice it makes it much easier to empathize with people who do show these things, and this heavily applies to online discourse.
Is there anyone here who's looked into the subject and come to this same conclusion?

>>22968309
Yes that was the joke. Thanks for getting it

>>22968872
I want to read brother...

I kinda hate this.
I accidentally made some alliteration in the first line (this is not the original first line), and then I tried to edit this into a full series of alliterated lines.
I think this is a waste of time, and I'm probably going to just erase it and write it out normally.
If I kept the beast of black bone beset the belligerents would it take you out of the work that it is the only bit of alliteration in the section?

>>22966854
Make sure there are no plotholes by reading it over and over again. Also helps if you have test readers, though mine have been useless for my mysteries, as my book is too long for normies

>>22966906
That's art. You're being vunerable, communicating a truer sense. I'd embrace it for the beautiful thing it is. It's okay to feel scared.

>>22966922
The GOAT for me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0vtAaAV9oI

>>22967426
I used to have your mindset before I wrote my first sex scene.
Now I love them for what they are. I can use a lot of descriptive language and prose.
I feel like a lot of people get in the mindset where they have to make it into some drawn out hentai visual novel scene, but it really doesn't have to be. Having two characters come together and share intimacy and vunerability, it's very sweet. It can be used to convey character's fears and inhibitions. It has a place in certain works, I feel.

I would be grateful if any of you could give me another view on this short story: https://pastebin.com/GM7eyd7D
Wrote it last night, only 1.7k words.

Guys, how do you feel about PoV swaps mid chapter? I've kinda tried to tie specific plot beats / important information to different PoVs who are at the same place, at the same time, and I kind of swap between the three of them all the time whenever something specifically tied to each character's "domain" happens. I'm kinda trying to give the reader a more holistic view of all the different elements that go into the story without having (more) 12k word chapters, since all of them give unique insight into specific things.

For instance, I have:

1. One guy who is very earthly, he has a very realistic perspective on people and events, and knows a lot about how people work

2. A second who is very faithful (in the religious context), and he has a more divine / magical view of events and certain story beats, as well as having knowledge into the esoteric and magical parts of the world

3. And a third who is a thrill-seeking schizo that experiences weird visions from time to time, thus giving uniquely vivid insight into his surroundings. I use him for some of the more mysterious parts of the story & setting up questions that get answered way down the line.

I kind of mix and match these guys, sometimes they have their own chapters, but more often than not, there is at least 2 PoVs per chapter. Is this a bad move? I make the swaps very clear and very obvious with how much different my verbiage & flow is for each character. Thoughts?

>>22969049

The first bit sounds way more natural than the other two. I have a shit ton of alliteration in my writing, and it always feels way smoother when I write it without thinking about it too much. You can leave the first bit in and rewrite the rest normally, but what I'd do is just make a note and leave it for later in case an idea pops up.

>>22969248
I had something like 8 PoV swaps in one chapter that was over 10k words, but normally I only swap the PoV at the end of a chapter as a sort of short story that sets up future events or fleshes out a character slightly.
I separated them by using the insert horizontal line feature in Google Docs to clearly show where the split happens each time.
There was also one time where I would say that I swapped PoV for just an instant without warning. Basically it was describing how the sister felt about the brother, and the narration became aggressive since it was kinda her thoughts, but it then changed back to normal.
P.S, I'm also the anon who wrote that post, and yeah, I can't force alliteration, but if it comes naturally I think it sounds great.

>>22969248
Ah, I was distracted and didn't finish reading your post so I could reply properly.
I have two main characters right now and the chapters sometimes swap between them, but almost never in the same chapter.
Not that it never happens, but very rarely do I think I should be swapping for effect rather than separating them.

>>22969248
If you take a Third Person Omniscient POV then you should be able to go from character to character. The key is that you never establish the story as a Third Person Limited POV.

In other words, zoom out enough from the story that there is no clear main character as far as POV goes. When you delve into the thoughts of a character, do not delve into the inner thoughts of another character in the middle of the same paragraph or sentence. Partition these things in your prose.

>I finally made some progress after my last little push:

Satoræ admires the view of the northeastern Conrah Plateau for a moment before making his way back to the path. As he does, he notices an old stone bench facing the outlook. It's covered in moss, a few chunks have chipped away, and its legs are overgrown with small shrubbery. He contemplates cleaning it and resting for a while but decides not to. The woods soon recondense around the trail for a stretch before thinning into another, smaller clearing. Here, he can't see out over the landscape like before--just more dense woods on the other side. Central to the narrow clearing, however, is a large crack in the subsurface rock that forms the hill. It's something of a large crevasse, though certainly not a canyon. There is a roped and wooden bridge connecting the two sides, roughly thirteen meters apart. Yet the overall length of the divide curls out of view to either side. Satoræ sees that the two stone-pillar anchors for the bridge are worn and mossy, like the bench. Looking closely, he makes out consistent grooves on the right pillar under a layer of green. He wipes it clean, revealing heavily eroded, barely legible words each followed by a number. He surmises the words must be town or village names, and that the numbers are their distance from the bridge: 'Violas - 4; Actiensis...' He can't make out the second number, but he thinks it may that place he saw by the lake. Further studying around the pillar, he notices indentations and holes on the back, with some holes still containing bits of rusted metal. He notices the ropes look much less weathered than the anchors would suggest, as do the wooden planks.

Satoræ begins to cross the bridge. Soon halfway over, he peers down into the crevasse to see its two sides slowly narrowing as they cut down into their own darkening shadows cast by the low and obscured late morning sun. It's deep, though he can faintly see the bottom littered with fallen logs and leaves. It's difficult to determine in the shadow, but some of the logs appear to be more deep grey than brown, closer to the color of stone. Satoræ returns his gaze ahead. As he walks, he feels a vibration in the ropes coming from behind him. He looks back to see flames budding upon the ropes around the pillars and the first few boards. Just before the bridge, a heavily robed and cloaked figure stands statuesque. Confused and panicked, Satoræ quickly finishes crossing the bridge to safety. Tinged with fear-induced adrenaline, he can little help reacting in anger to the figure. He turns to face it.

1/2

>Made some progress again:

Satoræ admires the view of the northeastern Conrah Plateau for a moment before making his way back to the path. As he does, he notices an old stone bench facing the outlook. It's covered in moss, a few chunks have chipped away, and its legs are overgrown with small shrubbery. He contemplates cleaning it and resting for a while but decides not to. The woods soon recondense around the trail for a stretch before thinning into another, smaller clearing. Here, he can't see out over the landscape like before--just more dense woods on the other side. Central to the narrow clearing, however, is a large crack in the subsurface rock that forms the hill. It's something of a large crevasse, though certainly not a canyon. There is a roped and wooden bridge connecting the two sides, roughly thirteen meters apart. Yet the overall length of the divide curls out of view to either side. Satoræ sees that the two stone-pillar anchors for the bridge are worn and mossy, like the bench. Looking closely, he makes out consistent grooves on the right pillar under a layer of green. He wipes it clean, revealing heavily eroded, barely legible words each followed by a number. He surmises the words must be town or village names, and that the numbers are their distance from the bridge: 'Violas - 4; Actiensis...' He can't make out the second number, but he thinks it may that place he saw by the lake. Further studying around the pillar, he notices indentations and holes on the back, with some holes still containing bits of rusted metal. He notices the ropes look much less weathered than the anchors would suggest, as do the wooden planks.

Satoræ begins to cross the bridge. Soon halfway over, he peers down into the crevasse to see its two sides slowly narrowing as they cut down into their own darkening shadows cast by the low and obscured late morning sun. It's deep, though he can faintly see the bottom littered with fallen logs and leaves. It's difficult to determine in the shadow, but some of the logs appear to be more deep grey than brown, closer to the color of stone. Satoræ returns his gaze ahead. As he walks, he feels a vibration in the ropes coming from behind him. He looks back to see flames budding upon the ropes around the pillars and the first few boards. Just before the bridge, a heavily robed and cloaked figure stands statuesque. Confused and panicked, Satoræ quickly finishes crossing the bridge to safety. Tinged with fear-induced adrenaline, he can little help reacting in anger to the figure. He turns to face it.

"Are you trying to kill me!" he shouts aggressively.

There is no response.

'"Are you from Vie-oh-lass? If so, I mean no harm! Please, don't attack me! I'm completely lost, and just looking for help."

Silence. Satoræ carefully studies the figure, thinking for a moment as the adrenaline edges away.

1/2

>>22969363

>2/2

No. It's unlikely they're from that nearby town. It wouldn't do them any good to burn down the bridge to their cemetery. Even if they thought he was a threat, one person isn't worth destroying the bridge over. He keeps thinking. Though, with how strange everything has been since he was brought to be, he has little idea what exactly to think. He goes further back.

"Who are you? Do you know Nebulosa? Or Bhi--" he thinks for a second, "Gra'nuowa?" Satoræ questions loudly across the crevasse and over the fire gnawing at the far end of the bridge.

The figure remains still. The bright orange flames continue to grow, emitting little yellow embers that twiddle briefly up into the sky. A few twines of rope snap. The bridge lurches. Then, slowly, the figure's arms reach up and lower the hood. A peculiar face is revealed. Across the distance, and through the fire, it is difficult to determine the finer features of the unmistakably human head. Yet there's one impossible-to-miss distinction: feathers. Predominantly brown, with notes of black, grey, and white, its entire head is covered in feathers, with those at the top being slightly tufted. Upon seeing this, an odd sense of dread finds Satoræ amidst his confusion.

"*You* know Nebulosa?"

The feminine voice catches him off guard. He thinks about how to respond. His anger has worn off. Satoræ is now confident she is not trying to harm him, seeing as the bridge burns yet still survives intact. She has made no effort towards him either. However, he is perplexed as to the why of it. Even more so now that she knows of Nebulosa.

"I do," replies Satorae. "He made-- He's my-- Well, he sent me to... this place, to try and fix whatever is wrong with it. Did he send you too? Are you, like me? Is this another test? Are you here to help me?"

Desperate for some true direction, the questions pour out of his mouth. In the last few words, Satorae can't help an inflection that makes them sound like a plea, almost a cry. He watches hopefully. The figure remains unmoving. Finally, the ropes snap as they surrender to the fire's consumption. The bridge falls. Swinging down, the flames roaring loud from the wind, it crashes into the cliff below Satoræ's feet. He feels the impact, and shortly after, begins to feel the rising heat. Looking back at the figure, she still has yet to move. She's studying him, meticulously. Eventually, her lips move without spund before Satorae then hears:

"I've no doubt you'll find help soon enough. Goodbye, unexpected friend of Nebulosa," she says in a curious yet dismissive tone.

She turns, makes her way up the path Satoræ had come from, and soon disappears into the surrounding woods. Satoræ stares into the spot she could last be seen, his mind fogged by confusion. He then looks over the edge to see the burning bridge but quickly steps back when the heat beats his face. He looks back one last time to where she'd left before eventually deciding to keep moving forward.

>>22969276
>>22969302

Might be dumb to admit it, but I've never really been sure how to distinguish between limited and omniscient. I **think** mine is limited, since each PoV is self contained, visceral & personal, and the reader only knows that PoV's thoughts etc. until the swap happens. At least that's what it looks like when I compare my writing to online examples. Can post a snippet too if you think it'll help explain what I mean.

Another thing is that a lot of my plot hinges on having imperfect, or even contradictory information. Whenever I transition from one PoV to the next, it usually comes after a very clear indication that this is happening, and yeah, I'd never just swap without warning, I think that would just be jarring and weird.

>>22969365

>I wasn't going to add this last bit I finished, but if anyone actually happens to read the first two and is a little curious this will offer a pittance more at best. I also see I missed a few small things in editing in the first two. Whoops. Hopefully this isn't much worse, because it hasn't been edited as much as the first two:

As odd as the encounter was, and after the initial fear and surprise had faded, Satoræ knew he wasn't in danger. It seemed to him that her destruction of the bridge was not because of his presence, and was an unlikely coincidence of that particular moment. He thought perhaps she was already there, mid-attempt, before he showed up and caused her to stop and hide, to assess who he was. Though, he can't figure out why she wouldn't have waited until he crossed and left before resuming her endeavor. Nor for that matter, the unlikely odds that she was some bird-human hybrid who knew of Nebulosa. And why then she wouldn't aid him or tell him more, or anything, about where he was, who she was, or what was going on. Was she another being like Nebulosa? He doubts that. Nebulosa was massive, but she was not much larger than himself and appeared more humanoid. Was she like himself? Someone created by Nebulosa, or another Avian? After all, Nebulosa said there were others like him, around thirty, and specifically named another Avian, Alba. He can't be certain, but she didn't look much like him besides her general form. And even that was mostly obscured by robes. For all he knows, she has wings, or her lower half is that of a bird.

Finally, Satorae concludes that the incident was, firstly, bizarre if nothing else. But secondly, although it may not have immediately involved him, she and what she did had something to do with whatever the Avians are attempting to do here. And that he may, or likely will, learn who she is and why what happened, happened.

After following the path for a while, lost in deep contemplation, the gradual slope that persisted throughout Satoræ's descent from the graveyard begins to level out. As well, the dense woods that surrounded Satoræ for over half a day's time overall were beginning to thin out. By now, the mostly sunny warmth of late morning has receded behind a noontime veil of thin grey clouds. The wind has grown from light and variable to a cool, steady breeze whose gusts rouse the woodland canopy into a static of applause. Not long after the wind haf picked up, Satoræ put his coat on. The ground flora of the woods begins to give way to the long, tan wild grasses Satoræ saw covering the land during his view at the outlook, and the evergreens now outnumber the deciduous trees.

>>22969383
It's tricky at first but if you read and write them elf you start to tell the difference. The key lies in information. Third Person Limited is like a zoomed out First Person. You don't write "I," you write "He/She" but you remain focused on one character. The Narain surrounding the character stocks to information that only the character knows. In omniscient you zoom out another degree. Now the narrator knows everything and anything and thus can convey whatever information that the reader needs.

Look up other resources to learn the difference though.

>>22969383
omniscient.
>It was an ugly house
It was, objectively, an ugly house. The invisible narrator's perspective.

limited
>It was an ugly house
Although still stated in third person, it's understood to be the character's opinion. Another chapter, with another POV character, might describe the same house as colorful or fun or something else.

>>22966923
You are anonymous you retard. Even if we found out who you are irl, what would it matter? Some faggot named Brandon who lives in Kansas City wrote a book that might be cringe. Who cares? Get over yourself.

>>22969569
>It was, objectively, an ugly house
Ugly is never an objective assessment. The instant you use an opinionated word like this, you've created a subjective, limited narrator character. I've seen even published authors fuck this up

>>22969248
>Guys, how do you feel about PoV swaps mid chapter?
Generally, I'm for it, I love the dubloon chapter in Moby Dick for example, but you have to limit yourself. I've read too many thrillers that abuse this shit so egregiously that they become unreadable as the author sets up several domino cliffhangers one after the other, always hopping away before the critical moment. It feels cheap and leads to chaotic scenes with bad pacing.
My advice would be to restrain yourself to using it only in instances where it has specific artistic or story related merit. That way it still has impact and allows the story beats to largely carry on at their natural pace.

>>22966854
like >>22966860 said putting 75k down like that is an accomplishment in and of itself. Also you being a neurotic probably helps with the quality of the writing somewhat.

>>22969015
It's about the collapse of friendships and the people behind them as they come into adulthood. Here's an except that doesn't need much context.

>>22969831
Has it occurred to you that you may have severe autism?

Fuck you, you cocksucking nigger faggot retards. You’re writing sucks. You’re ideas suck. And you’re mommies is ashamed of you.

>>22969906
It’s 4chan. Don’t you idiots think everything is autistic.
And because of the Jews?

>>22970403
what's the OG about?

Given the historic length of the average novel and that word count is a meaningless metric used by (((publishers))) and (((awards committees))), what separates a novel from a novella, stylistically and functionally?

>>22966922
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oZc-jyYVNo

An excpert from new story. Btw just got rejected by a cute girl. But here's the text:

It is a certain day in February; on a small road, running through the countryside, a boy is walking to school. In his head sounds a catholic hymn, which he repeats, again and again. He tries to get back the feelings he felt earlier. Those feelings he felt when he defeated the evil. He had defeated that which had ruined his life. The hymn and the moment of victory reminiscence feelings of another world, of something that he wants to reach to. Before that would have been impossible, but now he could do it.
The boy entered the school yard, where many young people were already waiting for school to start. He looked around him, trying to find his friends. They were standing by a wall behind a corner, separate from the rest. He arrived, and one of his friends, named Michael, greeted him.
-What’s up Matthew!
-Hello, answered Matthew in a low voice.
-Have you already read the book? Asked a boy with dark hair, named Jack.
-What kind of book did we have to read? Asked another boy, named Aaron.
-Oh heavens! Haven’t you even started reading? Hah! It must be read ready by next week.
-Well, shit, said Aaron.
School started. First lesson was mathematics. When the students started doing the assignments, one girl, sitting behind Matthew asked him: “You know the answer to this third one?” She was Matthew’s crush, already for a couple years, a short and cute girl. Matthew looked at her, but couldn’t reply anything. Jack looked at him mockingly, and Matthew himself started to burst out laughing. The conversation was then over. All the girls felt awkward. Matthew felt that he had failed again. He was quiet for the rest of the lesson, doing the assignments.

>>22970407
Google image search brings it right up: https://reddit.com/comments/10miq26
Apparently it's a whinefest about how difficult it is to be a woman when everyone's nice to you.

>>22966566
I have to edit 100,000 words by the end of this month. I have a new outline and framework for how I want the story to go, and the good part is that most of what I need to do is polish what I've already written down.

What techniques should I use? Editing is the scariest part for me but I know that is nothing but my own fault for not practicing it more often.

>>22969248
Hey Anon, I am now editing the chapter, and I think that this turned out alright.
I've tried expanding it a little bit, but beyond these four lines I feel like it's forcing myself.
There was a line about
>imbibing the invisible power of ionization
but while my story does have some element of understanding physical laws i.e science, making you a better mage, I think using the term ionization is a stretch too far.
Anyway, thank you for suggesting that I leave a note rather than just give up on it.

>>22966922
Just let the mundane happen
https://youtu.be/npC-C-00AWY?feature=shared

Writing fantasy story, I need to find a way to say this girl had a healthier amount of fat on her body than the usual half starved people of the wastes that isn't "uncommonly voluptuous" because that word is just... it's too sexo

Any ideas?

>>22970785
Well filled out. Full. Healthy. Hearty. Yo mama.

How do I force myself to sit down and write, knowing that I can be interrupted at any time?

>>22970785
Anon no matter what a male character examining a female will come off as lewd.
But try saying: stocky, well built, well developed, well endowed

>>22970796
>Yo mama
Excellent. Exactly what I was looking for. kek

Thinking of going with "a figure more common to the royalty of ages long passed"

>>22970807
It really do be like that, huh? Humans are a horny bunch, aren't we?

>>22970806
Write.

>>22970816
Why didn't I think of that?

I'm putting this idea out there because I already feel my writing is too dialog heavy and this story requires it to be basically all dialog

A suicide prevention hotline worker gets a caller who wants to kill himself because he raped a little girl

>>22970814
If humans weren't horny, the species would go extinct. This also implies that the horniest ones breed more, leading to an increasing amount of horniness in the species. Do you suppose that means spider monkeys are the crown of creation?

>>22971031
>that thigh muscle
God, imagine that pressing up against the side of your head hhhnnnnggggg

the more i re-read my story, the less i like it.

>>22969569
Omniscient and Limited refer to what information is withheld during 3rd person narration:
Omniscient
>He thought that his house was a beautiful, one of a kind engineering marvel. As for his neighbors, opinions ranged from the aesthetically ugly to the structurally unsound. He payed them no matter.
Both the protagonist's and his neighbors thoughts are given to the reader, no information is withheld.

Limited (Subjective)
>He thought that his house was a beautiful, one of a kind engineering marvel. As for his neighbors, most of their gazes avoided the thing, some even cross the street when passing it by. He payed them no matter.
The protagonist's thoughts are given, the neighbors thoughts are withheld and you may only deduce it them by their actions, behaviors or speech.

Objective
>He stood outside his front-lawn with his legs parted, a hand on his hip and coffee on the other; eyes glued to his brand new home. As for his neighbors, most of their gazes avoided the thing, some even cross the street when passing it by. He would wave them a smile but not all of them returned it.
All of the character's thoughts are withheld and you may only deduce them by their actions, behaviors or speech.

Incidentally none of this has to do with whether someone's opinion is objective or subjective. When not narrating the opinion of a character (something subjective), the narration should be objective (as in matter of fact).
>>22969831
The poster you were replying to somewhat led you on with his inaccurate description on points of view. In that instance, the narrator becoming a character has no bearing on the point of view of the narration. The narrator is just relaying the thoughts of yet another character, himself. This is also invariably a form of self-insertion because the narrator's thoughts are most likely the author's and not a distinct character's.
>>22969906
He's right though. If you're not expressing a character's thoughts, feelings or opinions your narration should be factual, otherwise you're conjuring opinions out of thin air, most likely your own.

>>22971251
The way I've heard it told is that in Limited, the opinions or thoughts of the viewpoint character always color the narration, regardless of if you're using "he thought" or even if the statement isn't factual/objective

>>22971268
That is specifically what James Wood calls free indirect style. Limited third person is merely narration that isn't able to see around corners or move outside of the view of a single character.

>>22971212
Quit re-reading it so much. Write most of it first, edit only small sections here or there to 'scratch the itch', then re read it in large chunks, or even when wholly complete. And always remember to let you writing cook, as in not reading it at all, for a while. It'll help evaporate the dense familiarity you've developed towards it so you can easier see it in a fresh light.

>>22970559
chat gpt

>>22970559
stop making it sound like a bigger issue than it is. That's plenty of time go through that few words.

100,000 words / 11 Days = 9,091 words a day. A couple hours a day should be more than enough

>>22971251
>the narrator becoming a character has no bearing on the point of view of the narration
No, I only wanted to point out his mistaken use of "objective" before anyone takes him seriously. This is a point you actually have to pay attention to.

>>22971268
If the opinions or thoughts of the viewpoint character always color the narration then you're describing a first person narration. Free indirect speech/style is a way to quote a person that makes it look like first person narration by virtue of eliminating constructs such as "he thought". This is still a method of quotation, which third person narrators do plentiful of, but not exclusively. You could very well describe a park and separately narrate the characters' thoughts on it before, during or afterwards. But making the narrator's perspective exclusively that of the viewpoint character is just writing first person with a periscope.

>>22971355
You really think someone should be able to evaluate, and possibly rewrite, 9,000 words per day? That sounds impossible to me.

>>22967679
Wow.... what a pile of shit.

>>22972035
I understand I can have enlightenment and gain knowledge in all its affinities, and with this knowledge moment, I can bend pure simulation.

>>22971997
Dude, it takes roughly an hour on average for someone to read 10,000 words I've found. If it takes you more than an hour to read and revise 9000 words in two or three hours then perhaps you need to find another hobby.

>>22972084
nta, but editing ~10k words might take 5+ hours if you aren't that quick

>>22963523
I have now surpassed the word count of my last attempted novel. I have much more faith in my staying power, now. Then, I had been rapidly losing interest over the last few days I worked on it, but today was oddly productive. I only could get a half-day done yesterday, but did 1,300 words today. I'm only 1/6 of the way through this (to hazard a guess), but now I know I can do it.

>>22966819
This, they always look like they're from a video game.

>>22970814
I'd write something like "A fuller figure, like that of royalty from times past"

>>22970806
Phone in the other room. Close out every application besides your word processor. Stare at the blank page until you get bored and start writing. Setting an alarm that dictates the time that you *have to* start writing is also helpful.

>>22971212
I have the opposite problem, so I have to avoid re-reading outside of critical details if I ever hope to look at my work with an objective eye.

By the ~ middle of chapter 7 and this is my word count. I anticipate this book having at least 25 chapters, though likely I'll hit 30. Pretty stoked I should be able to hit very close to 100k for this book. And it's only the first in what I'm hoping will be a three part series with a fourth companion book.

Just in the last week I put in 2k words, which is better than I've done in a month, and what was originally 2.5k before editing.

My story mentions race a couple of times, and I'm worried someone will accuse me of being racist. I'm NOT, but I'm just worried that someone will think I am.

I really like this intro

>>22972044
What the fuck are you doing?

>>22972752
Either schizoposting or false schizoposting.
Ignore it.

What is your guys' opinions on LotR opening / WoT-style exposition dumps, a la a diegetic story that one of the characters tells to another, explaining the general gist of the plot, setting up hooks and / or answering some questions? I quite like them to be honest, but I'm not sure how a modern day audience would react to something like that.

>>22972643
You can literally delete the first 4 paragraphs and achieve the same message

>want to start writing as an after work hobby
>AI is just about to be able to instantly produce what would take me months to write and at a higher quality
what's the point?

>>22972883
Full story control

I want to write the next Harry Potter. I want to be the America Tetsuya Nomura of literature.

However, there is this inherent need for me to use the words nigger and faggot. I don't think I'm even racist of homophobic. I just want my characters to call each other niggers and faggots. But then I lose millions of potential readers.

How can I write like a Japanese game designer?

>>22972342
How does any of that help you when your parents don't care to leave you alone?

>>22972084
What if you know there's about 30-40k words that you have to change because you're changing the plotline?

>>22972872
There's more to literature than pure efficiency

>>22972084
Tell me you've never edited without telling me you've ever edited.

Oh. And even if you try to lie, and say you do edit, then hear this: You're a dogshit editor--because you obviously aren't a great writer--and couldn't tell the difference between a continuity alignment and a tense adjustment.

Im having trouble writing black characters. If I write them like anyone else they sound white. If i write them speaking in venacular im afraid i might get cancelled. Im not black

>>22972987
Write them as white and southern then go back and make them black. It’ll be the same thing.

>>22972934
That's a rewrite, not an edit, dipshit

>>22972957
cope harder

>>22972987
Just don't write black characters lol

>>22972987
Describe them as black. Have them talk white.

I’ve been working on a story for years at this point. I’m not sure when I’ll finish it or even begin compiling all the various drafts and pieces I’ve written. The problem is that the story will have to take place in the present day whenever I do finish it, and it will focus on the youth. But as time goes on and as I get older, I’m more unfamiliar with how youth culture works. I’ve already had to rework much of the story over time to focus more on social media, the impact of things like TikTok, youth trends like memes about pornography, etc.

I’m worried that I will eventually be out of touch with this culture and be incapable of depicting it, and that my emphasis on present-day life will make the story easily dated over time because the world changes so much so quickly. As I try to become trendy, I’m only making the focus more narrow and prone to obsolescence. And I think this is partly why so few works of art today focus on contemporary life. It’s hard to do. It’s hard to balance everything and keep an eternal message at the core.

>>22972951
It's not about efficiency, it's about pointless ramblings that add nothing to the story. The paragraphs don't develop the character, set a setting, provide an insight to conflict, or any nuances that make a story a story. It's just incoherent ramblings of a man who likes to hear himself talk

Will prospective publishers care if I have my characters say retard? I realize it's le ableist but that's how teenage girls really talk, they throw retard around a lot

>>22973022
Then what do I do?

Is it impossible to improve your own writing if you don't first learn to critique the works of others?

>>22973255
This. I understand why people self-fellate when writing giant blocks of text describing things that people have yet 0 reason to care about, but I don't understand why they think they know better than people telling them it's not a good thing to do.

>>22972987
you need to read more

I haven't written in 3 years. Damn.

>>22974162
It's the first time I see a writer run out of steam after just one paragraph. Also, you can't start with a trivia blast and then skip actually telling anything.

>>22974256
most don't write at all

>>22973409
stop asking me and get to work. It's that simple. Turn off the phone and internet if you have to. Just fucking do the work.

How do I improve my prose? I want it to be easily digestible for the average layman but I feel like I'm writing the equivalent of fastfood.

>>22974378
>I feel like I'm writing the equivalent of fastfood.
This is the only way to gain a modern reader, because they're all ADHD riddled retards. If your plot hook doesn't start with explosions and a fight scene within first 3 pages, the book is landing in the trash if it's ever printed.

Brandon Sanderson generator just dropped

>>22974334
Then they're not writers, jim

>>22973641
It's not that I know better. Literally everything said in that sample was about the character, setting or theme.

If you're a genuine plotfag, just go and say it. I don't judge. But if the only advice is "i don't get it" or "there's no point in anything." than maybe literature isn't for you

>>22973249
Your best bet is to write the present and hold out until it becomes nostalgic, so roughly 20 years.

>>22969248
Swapping PoV mid chapter isn't a bad thing in of itself, but overuse can get grating. Just intersperse them more, or split up the larger chapters to make it less noticeable if that isn't an option.

>>22974378

You have to work on the clarity of your prose. It's not clear at all what you are talking about. Of course we are missing context, but still.

You need to brush your teeth after kisisng my arse this arvo. My wife loves my teeth and I miss her. Vbitters this arvo. Park bench. Fair dooz. Aw yearh. Struth. You'll be kissing me arse this arvo, fuck you if you don't mean it, fuck you and I mean it, fuck you and kiss my arse.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way kiss my arse this arvo.
Now that we're done with the preliminaries kiss my arse. Park bench.
Now that that's over and done with kiss my arse and I mean it. Fuck you fuck you. I miss my wife!

Ambrose, poor kid. 8 years old. Kissed my arse with a forklift. Dead now. Struth. My wife misses him.

so then Owen kept pushing back and the goslings were unclear about the conditions and Nicholas kept going on about the bottomline so my wife went in there and held his arse with one hand to stop it from hitting the park bench this arvo, after stepping out in a daze and visiting the goslings who were holding their beaks to one side over the bottomline issues Nicholas still hadn't sorted. Fuck you Nicholas said, and he meant it.

Fuck my arse. I'm gay. My wife who got a sex change this arvo is now a bloke and I miss him.

>>22976006
>>22976019
>>22976025
>>22976047
>>22976068
You unironically need to write an entire story—a novel even—in this style. It cracks me up every time.

>>22975581
You misunderstand. You should sprinkle in blocks of text about the world or characters AFTER I have a reason to give a shit about it.

>>22969183
I'm drunk.
It's decent but somewhat ESL. Make sure all the tenses are either present or past. "I ask" is present, "I took" is past, for instance. Knowing the ending of the story I think some would say it's intentional but I don't know.

It would be good for a scene in a bigger work but not a very satisfying short story, because the twist at the ending doesn't mean much of veverything.

Good scene, bad short story.

Could fit into one of Ballard's early works.

Good job overall.

>>22975581
>literature
>posts nonsensical rambling fantasy cybershit

>>22975581
>plotfag
youre failing at the basics if you think this is a thing

>>22973419
It's easier to see other's mistakes and it's harder to own up your own.

>write new story
>its the same story i've written before but with different characters
God fuck now I have to rewrite it

>>22976809
What if you struggle to see the mistake in either?

>>22976827
Then you're likely in a Robert Cross thread where everyone pretends like it's not shite

>>22976829
lol

Making up names for my characters and locations is annoying. How do you guys go about it?

>>22976827
Then you learn not how to critique but instead from what other's critiques are about. Oftentimes Anons will ask for advice and people will give it to them, piece enough of that together and you'll start to see where others are making mistakes, then just apply that to your own work. Read the archives like a little trash panda to speed up the process. Being self-taught is the only substitute for not having a teacher.

>>22975965
Could you elaborate? I thought the scene was very clear on what it wanted to say.

>>22976913
look at things outside
>See a rock, see a cactus
>Rocktus
>Rocktown
>Cactustown
>Cactacock
>Ractus
>Cock

>>22976913
Fantasy Name Generator.
>>22974378
Writing fast food a.k.a. slop and writing meant to be accessible to a wide audience has nothing to do with one another. Accessibility has to do with your chosen register and how you adjust your choice of words, sentence length and text structure in order to fit the audience or social setting. Slop is 100% on you.
You are by and large telling us how the meeting went rather than showing how it unfolded. Your paragraphs are short and of the light novel physiognomy, you can look over some other people's work in this thread and you'll notice that their paragraphs contain the sentences that pertain to an idea rather than a lonely sentence. You're under utilizing pronouns and could avoid saying Owen as often as you did. I would advise that you look up free indirect speech since you used it in a sentence but reverted to indirect speech for the one afterwards.
That's about all the pointers that I can give you.

>>22966566
Can anyone recommend any interactive online courses to improve my writing? The links and videos in the OP are all well and good but it's hard for me to know if I'm actually improving in any determinable sense without having someone gauge my work objectively. That means a course that's actually interactive in that I communicate with a tutor to help develop my skills.

I send shit to my friends and some say they prefer my new writings to my but I feel that's because it's more watered down and simple rather than being better.

I want to stay the fuck away from "writing academics" if I can. I remember doing a creative writing course at university and it was god-awful. Made up mostly of people who claimed their favourite book series as YA pulp fantasy shit for males or fantasy-erotica for females.

>>22977307
>Pea
>Tear
>Griffin
>Peter Griffin

>>22976913
Depends on the context. If it's characters in a grounded setting I just mishmash names of IRL people or fictional characters. The protagonist of my current book series is Cedric Cullen, a mishmash of Cedric Diggery from Harry Potter, and Edward Cullen from Twilight.

>>22977218

It's just not clear at all what's going on. Who is "this side" when you say "this side's bottomline?"

What are these baby goslings? Is this some kind of lingo? Why would they be the dream of a business owner? Where did Nicholas get them? Are these investors or something?

It's just not clear at all what's going on, who the parties are, what's being discussed or has been discussed. "The talk" is mentioned but there is no substance at all, no content, talk about what? What's the deal? "terms were lax" and "curious prodding" etc. but nothing actually discussed. We have no idea what's going on, and all we're left with is a sense of confusion.

How do I tard-wrangle myself?
I have a character who's supposed to be pretty angry most of the time, but for some reason I KEEP writing dialogue that loops back some political nonsense. Instead of having a brash character she's now basically Hitler but female.

>>22977500

>Hitler but female

Why would you tard wrangle yourself? Keep going anon

>>22977500
>she's now basically Hitler but female.
Not seeing the issue.

>>22977500
kek. Probably just have to learn self-discipline I suppose.
Alternatively let your tard-self be free and let it do its thing

>>22976913
Depends.
If they are part of one race/culture then I look for names of Arabic, Spanish, and Hebrew sources, mashing them together sometimes.
Del is a Spanish name, met is at the end of some Arabic names such as bahamut, so I mashed it to Delmet, swaping the U for an E which I thought sounded better.
The same applies to his mother, Rosamet.
One nation has biblical names, Ezekiel, Malachi.
Minotaurs have Greek/Roman names, Tau, Archon.
Specific characters do sometimes have names with more meaning.
There's a guy named Sepul, like sepulcher, because he looks like a living corpse.
One guy is focused on spatial magic, so I named him Rosen, like an Einstain-Rosen Bridge.

Location names are also something I have an issue with.
Depending on where the city is and the culture of it this can change.
For the Frontier they get names based on something that happened or a landmark.
The city of Wyrmhold has a giant wyrm carved into the wall which scares off some of the animals in the area.
Mostly though, it's basically nonsense.
Falin, Kor, Dullen, Borden (this one is actually a border city so not really nonsense.)

>>22977451
I kept the exposition at a minimum since it was not important to the plot and I was trying to rush things along. I could add more context into it, but it felt like it would just needlessly pad out the paragraph with things the reader would implicitly figure out by themselves. (The context here is that Owen and Nicholas had just finished a presentation for their investors.)

Do you think it was a mistake to narratively speed run through non-essential points in the story?

>>22977509
>>22977511
>>22977515
I'm just worried I'm flanderizing her. She goes from talking about how morals are bullshit because if you could own a clone of yourself as a slave, you would, to saying shit like "They're called minorities for a reason you know. Because they're beneath us."

>>22976913
Literally the easiest part about writing/world building. You have two very simple foundational presets to give yourself when deciding proper names:

Do I want the name to reflect the character (be it their literal character or nature, race, role, meta function in the world or story... ect)? Or, do I dartboard something and go with it, potentially changing it later if I figure something better out?

Can't tell you how many times I've used the most slapstick, genuinely retarded names as placeholders just get by until something clicked. You even get the added bonus of sometimes falling in love with one if your dumbest names and keeping it as a wink to yourself.

And, if you were to take away a single thing from this, I would hope it's: take the weight away from the trivial things in your writing, by learning how to recognize them, and it'll make your writing that much more fluid and organic. Have fun with it as much as you work at it and you'll never forget why you wanted to write in the first place. Plus, you'll enjoy it that much more.

>>22972084
Reading is one thing. Revising it as you go is another.

>>22970997
Have you considered writing a play instead? If it's extremely dialog-driven then try writing a radio drama script.

>>22970559
https://hemingwayapp.com/

This will help you with basic grammar and spelling. It will not help you with analyzing structure or form or prose.

It's short. I just started rewriting after a long break, during which I didn't read at all because I was busy. Now I started reading again and managed to read 90 pages in one sitting.
But there's something wrong with how I write and I can't figure out exactly what it is. It feels disjointed and awkward.

>>22970479
If you take that approach then look at word count as a gauge on what you should be able to get away with in your story. Short stories need to be in and out affairs. The reader gets precisely what they need for the characters, setting, plot, and themes, and no more than that. Long stories get to indulge in setting description, inner thoughts of characters, action, etc. Long stories let the reader really dwell upon moments. Short stories get to the point.

In your paradigm, ignore short stories, novellas, and novels. Look up the word counts on your favorite stories and think about what they use those words for. Reread them if you must. You will develop a personal gauge on what any given word count should be capable of. When you write your first draft you can adjust as you wish until it reaches a final word count that satisfies you.

Does anyone here use Scrivener? It looks like it might be quite useful for outlining and editing.

Lads how do I stop writing like an ESL?

>>22977616
>It feels disjointed and awkward

Well, it kind of is. There are multiple lines referring to things that aren't present in the text and it makes things confusing, and otherwise unclear expressions.

>>22977500
Remove /pol/ from your bookmarks and never go there again. Lay off weed. You should start feeling better in about three weeks.

>>22975765
Swapping POV anywhere, ever, is always a bad thing. Every time you do it, it's like yelling loudly, "NOW, FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT!" and blasting your thigh with a stapler gun. Completely mad, for no reason.

>>22969099
>Having two characters come together and share intimacy and vulnerability, it's very sweet. It can be used to convey character's fears and inhibitions.
Yes exactly and that's more important than the act. The context that separates it from cheap porn.

>>22976913
Names are linguistic heritage. Approach it from that perspective.

>>22977697
What?

>>22977784
NOW FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT!
Kiss my arse and I mean it. My wife loves my stapler gun and I love her. Ooh hoo hoo. I'm drunk.

>>22972987
>black characters
Not reading your book

>>22977621
I had an in and out affair with your mum. It was at In and Out. I bond burgered your mum at In and Out. Kiss my arse.

>>22966566
Anyone else like the approach of just writing as if you're telling someone a story? No pointless meandering prose, just straight up. I mean, when it comes down to it, writing is just putting stories around the fire on paper. I am more engaged with, say, a Conan book than any of the favourites here.
>inb4 simpleton
I know, I know.

>>22977990
nah, you got the right idea
that's the essence of it and the rest is window dressing

>>22977995
Happy I didn't get insulted right off the bat. I've began to dabble in writing for some time now. I let myself get carried away with pretensions and clogged up my work with all these attempts at descriptive prose with a flow and it was unreadable. I let myself type away and then look at what I've done. The flow is great, the prose is simple and quick and snappy, lots of good stuff I came up by getting over myself. I throw in some detail in there if that particular passage can use it but never dwell on it (mostly on the description of the female leads of the story lol) but still, I am a paperback kind of guy who loves to read something on the beach, relaxed and with my troubles behind me. For me, that's the kind of feeling I want to impart on others. Make a genuine impression on another human and cause him joy and satisfaction, not write up nonsense he can boast about reading to whatever circlejerk that person's debased himself around. Thanks if you read this.

>>22977972
Turn the screen to Tomorrow to make them all white.

>>22977987
Ah, a short story man. I had a long story with your mom.

>>22978022
I made the long story short with your mum when I didn't call her back after bond burgering her at In and Out. It was a short affair.

>>22966799
Iniriir is where my doctor tells me I have an infection.

>>22977697
TV and movies do it all the time. It's only considered bad in prose.

>>22977680
Have you tried full English immersion? If that's not practical, you may always sound like an ESL.

>>22977641
Toolbox fallacy bros...

Is it weird that I use a spaced en dash as a parenthetical instead of an unspaced em dash?
I know this is incredibly autistic, but I've become really self-conscious about it lately.

>>22978328
that's just the british way of doing it

>>22977691
>Well, it kind of is. There are multiple lines referring to things that aren't present in the text and it makes things confusing, and otherwise unclear expressions.
Is this somewhat better?

>>22978207
I'm >100k into my first draft. Toolbox fantasy nothing. I'm looking ahead.

>>22978562
* fallacy

>>22978564
nta and I didnt use the paid version but I found it underwhelming and not much more useful than an excel sheet

>he doesn't have a Gantt chart for his writing project
>he doesn't have a risk:reward analysis or P&L
>he doesn't have stage gate meetings
>he doesn't have a poster ready for the poster session
>he doesn't wear a tie
Holy ngmi.

>>22977559
>Do you think it was a mistake to narratively speed run through non-essential points in the story?

I think it's a matter of skill. I'm telling you that as a reader, there is total confusion here in in this excerpt. If you have the skill to do it as a writer, to speed through, then yes, there are points of narrative where it could be appropriate including perhaps this one. But you have not succeeded here. That's all I can tell you. So you do have that option of "padding" it out to provide more context or simply rewriting, rewording things to make it clear.

>>22978328
> spaced en dash as a parenthetical

Please don't do that

>>22976430
Thanks for the input. I feel the same way. I didn't make any promises at first so there isn't much of a reason to read.
The story is about aimlessness. Is it better to do something rather than nothing? The best way to answer this question is by looking back on something you've done before. The ghost itself is just a representation of the memory. The questions at the end ask what makes a memory valuable or why people forget. I guess I didn't do a good job linking the two things, though. Maybe I should address the question more head-on.

>>22977680
Just stop worrying about it. Joseph Conrad was ESL and it's just part of his style.

George Lucas's bit about every stanza rhyming with the last one is a surprisingly helpful bit of advice.

>>22978419
Technically, I guess

>>22966566
Why do I simultaneously believe that i am the greatest writer of my generation whilst having a massive inferiority complex

>>22979468
textbook narcissism

>>22979491
then why do people always praise my writing and call me an incredible writer? why have i won this many awards/scholarships and gotten this many published short stories?

>>22979510
because you're a narcissistic brown female or gay asian.
and why would you assume these things are mutually exclusive?

>>22979510
counterpoint: why are you on /wg/?

>>22979510
Imposter syndrome. Which is also textbook narcissism of a different flavor.

....and then I won the pulitzer and the booker prize and everybody clapped and my wife loved my short stories. Kiss my arse.

>>22979510
>missing the point to self aggrandize
See >>22979491

>>22979515
why'd you assume I was a brown chick or gay asian?

why'd i assume these things were mutually exclusive? i made it all the fuck up anon. that's why. such mi pp hole

>go on any writing community
>see yet another "I managed to write 250 words today in my wip ^_^" post.

Seriously, if you can't even sit down and write 1000 words a day on your novel, or even fucking 500, then you might as well give up. You're not putting in the fucking effort required. It's like going to the gym, doing 2 bicep curls and then deciding that was a good work out and going home.

>>22979573
Exactly. It's all about commitment.

>>22979573
>mfw I have to write 3k a day, essentially working 3 jobs

>>22979573
I think it depends on how a person writes

Through experience I know I can't force words out in front of a screen. So instead I spend time deeply thinking and feeling about the story and characters and their arcs and my artistic goals for a piece until i reach this critical mass at which point writing down the words becomes extremely easy for me. I can easily do 5-10k a day. All depends on what's best for the individual and their style of creativity.

>>22979573
They're not writers by any metric and the term 'writing community ' is a misnomer. If typing dogshit is what constitutes writing then anyone blathring on snapchat or twitter all day long is a writer. Quantity is not their major concern.

Is there seriously not a SINGLE good writer amongst you retarded lot? Surely one of your autists can write a good story or two

>>22980072
Me.

>>22978632

>>22980095
Prove it
Write me two paras about liderally anyting

>want to write, share and judt talk with people into my niche
>Poles are melting 4x as fast
>faster than expected again
I know its over

>>22980226
I was in a garden of arse that arvo and me wife's bitter lips still stung on me lips that arvo and it's hard to kiss so many arses when your wife loves your work but no one else does....

The garden of arse that arvo was a place for me to mean it and as I sat there nursing my bitters I figured it was time to say fuck you to the arses who hadn't kissed my arse that arvo and who didn't love my book the way my wife did and I miss her. Fuck you.

>>22980072
>>22980226
Trick question:
If I answer no, you call me a faggot and I am full of hubris. If I answer yes, I have surrendered the qualitative assessment of my skill to an asshole on 4chan. Only winning move is not to play. On the bright side, there was a third option that is still probably a loss.

This alcoholic ginger beer tastes all right. Hits pretty hard, reminds me of the feeling of winter near a fire. Makes me think of days when my pa was here. He wasn't the best man, or even a good man, but he inspires me nonetheless. I hope I can be half of him.
>>22980095
Proof or fuck yourself, fag.

Is kiss my arse poster the only real writer on here?
I'm starting to think maybe

>>22980391
>Only winning move is not to play
>movie quote from 1983
OK GenXer
Why don't you go chill and be all like whatever

>>22980439
>he doesn't watch movies older than 1990
Look at him, look at him and laugh.

>>22980439
>>22980446
Boys boys there's no need to be fight like faggots. I like both of you which probably makes me a faggot, alas...

>>22980446
How do you think I recognized the movie quote? Maybe it's because...I'm the #2 at OCP! OCP runs the cops! You're a cop...

Prime Directive #4: Kiss my arse.

>>22980800
It kinda was.

>>22980800
Hey, look! Bucket boy's online.

why wouldn’t you?

>>22979436
>Technically, I guess
I don't know what I'm doing wrong, to be honest. I'm well aware I have no writing talent. But I still want to write weird fiction!

I can't do it. 30k words that don't go anywhere at all. I'm cutting this limb out, it's got gangrene on it. I have to amputate this part of the story and try to stitch what's left together into a coherent continuation.

>>22980920
I re-wrote it so it's less retarded.

>>22978818
mmmmmmmmm nah, I'm gonna keep doing it. Ostensibly I have a British king, so that gives me the cultural context to get away with it – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – fuck your Chicago manual of style.

>>22972987
Read black lit

>ask some people on a webnovel platform for a betareaders in exchange for a review swap so I know how certain ideas vibe with people
>one of them literally only wants snarky quibs and moral greyness or harry Potter clones
>"yeah, instead of making this character fallible, why dont you just make the world around him question his heroic deeds because of social bigotry?"
Why do even ask on a platform filled with isekai and LitRPG?

>>22981117
You did not outline your story, did you?

>>22981269
>oh no I received opinions I didn't like after asking for opinions!
Do you think you live surrounded by only Kants and Pascals?

>>22966566
So I wanted to write a romance similar to the Thorn from Slay the Princess
>She metaphorically stabs him in the heart with a cruel and publicly humiliating insult to his loving affection
>Out of guilt, she tries to make amends
>He uses this opportunity to humiliate her as well
>Later on they learn to forgive each other
My idea was he is overbearing in his affection to her and she is at a low point of her life, so she curses him and tears him down verbally

She feels bad about it eventually, but he humiliates her as well

But the thing is I'm not sure in which way he should. I wanted the woman to be humiliated in a different sort of way- i.e. she is not declaring her love for him but is extending her trust to him and he uses it to get vengeance immediately. The thing is I'm not sure what she could extend as an olive branch and in which ways could one twist it into a path to revenge.

>>22981555
I'd pascal wager that they are full of kants alright, and they should all kiss my arse and I mean it.

I guess my first attempt at serious poetry I have no idea what I was going for with the imagery here just trying to make it as weird as possible I guess.

>>22981622
it's a little stiff, try removing unnecessary words like 'began to' and 'attempting to' which waste valuable beats for nothing

Would someone read over this short story I spat out?
https://pastebin.com/jCwEFcNY
I didn't touch it at all after finishing it, suggestions are welcome.

>>22981686
One thing notable is that it isn't a short story. There is an end but no beginning or middle. That makes this a vignette. But for a vignette to work it must be evocative, and this isn't that. It's a string of hackneyed drug cliches whipped around and flung at the reader's head, with a half-assed attempt at prose poetry tacked onto the end.
You're not trying.

>>22981781
Do you have a suggestion on how to make the prose better or are you just shitting on me to feel better about your own failed writing career? I don't care about semantics and I'm too old for anonymous belittling to have an effect on my ego.
What didn't work for you, specifically? I was aiming at a dreamlike quality, and trying to keep the reader off balance by moving quickly and leaving out details. I wasn't sure if it would come across. I was also worried that the middle section would be too slow and/or feel pointless - in all honesty, that's story is an actual thing that I experienced, and I've been wanting to put it somewhere for nearly a decade. I realize that just because something has an emotional impact on me doesn't mean it will to someone who reads what I write about it, though. Would more detail on the interaction leading up to finding him dead be good? Replace it with something else entirely?
The end isn't an attempt at poetry, I stole the idea from House of Leaves. It probably works better when the beats are separated out by pages.
Thanks for reading, anyway.

>>22981831
NTA but you could try learning about basic story structure.

>>22981831
nice. I give you valid advice and you strike back with this little breath of bad air. Well, at least the reply contained more effort and vigor than your lifeless flotsam of a 'story' and came from somewhere personal. I suggest you keep up the same spirit the next time you write, and shy away from tired cliches. Thanks.
Also 'dreamlike' is another redflag used by hackney artists. Don't.

>>22981833
I'm not trying to get published, anon. I write for fun. I wanted to move a nightmare out of my head and onto a page.
Is there something you didn't like about it outside of its lack of conformation to standard writing conventions? What's your point? Did it feel aimless and not evoke any kind of emotion in you?

>>22981845
story.
Above all and before anything, story.
Your nasty little drug trip, real or imagined, doesn't make for a story on its own. Realize this and you can finally get started.

But I leave you with that final nugget as I must get back to my 'failed writing career', which, in spite of all apparent failure, continues to put bread on my table.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200203215527/http://www.xenosystems.net/hell-baked/

how can i learn to write like this

what books or tricks guide me to dialecting with pomp

>>22981851
Okay, that's a place to start. The beginning isn't meant to be a drug trip, so I must've not got it across. The idea is pretty simple: man realizes that the weird nightmare he just woke up from actually happened in some way. It was meant to spook, because my nightmares actually scare the shit out of me and I thought they might scare someone else too.
I wanted to get directly into the dream itself so I could reveal it was a dream further on, instead of leading with that explanation, but I could see how that wouldn't come out. I appreciate the advice.

>>22981868
staring in the middle of the action is fine
learn basic story structure or you won't know what we mean

>>22981873
Well, alright; I see the exposition as the middle (with Will), the rising action as the hallway, the climax as the discovery, and the resolution as the last line. I realize that there's not a falling action, and if you have a better way to end it, I'm all ears. I've always been terrible with endings. I do think that overstressing anything would get in the way of the pace, which is meant to be fast.

How do you write a friendship differently than a romantic relationship? Aren’t they basically the same thing?

>>22982261
Romance has more intimacy. That includes the good, and sometimes the bad too. There are less boundaries between lovers than most friendships, unless it is the greatest of friendships where a character is so comcerned for the wellbeing of his friend that he would risk anything.

>>22982261
structurally they couldnt be more different
a romance is an opposition or negotiation
a friendship is an alliance

Finished the first draft of my novel. Yippee. Going to let it sit for a few weeks before I move on to figuring out the second draft.

In the meantime, I think I will try to write a short story. Not sure what yet though.

Finished the draft of my arse this arvo. Struth. Going to sit on the park bench for a few hours before I try to go home again because me wife threw me out.

In the meantime, I think you should kiss my arse. And I mean it.

>app I like the most has no word count or spell check
>alternative has no nested file trees but is more geared for writing
>everything else is shit, costs money and blows fat dicks at everything other than formatting an .epub
Guess I'll be getting Wine to work and transferring my memepad files over.

Any advice for really focusing on writing for an ADHD/ADD aka crippled brain?

>>22982786
choose a hobby more suited to you
I can't stress how important that is

>start writing what's intended as a lesbian drama with graphic sex scenes and violence
>the first chapter is all about the other girl's father's business and reads like a children's novel
How did I fuck this up so hard? Will I intentionally mess up my reader with wild tonal shifts, or just give up?

>>22982825
Just write the children's book with healthy (or not) female friendships that your heart really wants you to.

>>22982818
i appreciate your well meant advice but i think i’d rather follow the advice of “Do what you love even if it takes you off a cliff”

>>22982876
if you really loved it, concentrating on it wouldnt be a problem.
but there's always adderall or dexedrine.

>>22982786
i find doing writing sprints with a group of other writers is great for staying on task.

https://wordsprints.org/ you can join strangers in a sprint here
https://sprintobot.com/ you can add this bot to discord servers or join sprints in their public server, linked on the website

>>22982854
I wanted to oppose my own internal censorship by writing something unreservedly scandalous. But my style always assumes this humorous tone that makes even tragic situations seem more funny than unsettling.

>>22982881
This. people with ADHD can actually concentrate very well on subjects and activities that interest them

>>22983291
>mfw can't focus on anything anymore

>>22983467
play cookie clicker
your ADD will magically disappear instantly

>>22981555
I asked for a betaread, which means feedback along the lines of "how is the story to read and understand?" not "what do you want the story to be instead?"
And no, shitty opinions are not equal to good opinions.

>>22983492
Would you say that he's being a real pascal right now?

>>22983492
At least you got feedback. If this thread is supposed to be the successor to /crit/ it is a miserable failure.
Should I do a write-up of how to actually critique a piece of writing?

>>22983727
>Should I do a write-up of how to actually critique a piece of writing?
I don't know what good it will do wherever anon is seeking critique. I'm reminded of a mildly famous shitstorm on deviantart over having standards for critique that amounted to more than the kind of inkblot test random 'writers' were taking the drafts of others to be.

>>22982786
Outlines and writing sprints. Don't worry about getting it right the first time through. You don't know what "it" is yet. Just get the words on the paper first.

>>22982825
If it's YA then you're already on the fast track to the big bucks.

>>22983727
I would appreciate it.

>>22983925
i got the feeling he isnt talking about writing a book, but rather 'marathonning' his way to the end of 1000 words...

>>22983953
Oh...

>>22983934
I'll do it tomorrow, I didn't sleep last night.

>>22983727
why not lead by example, seethe queen

Is the idea for my sorta power system kinda dumb or needs tweaking? General idea is that the androids in my universe can basically channel the energy from earth/living creatures. Most of the side androids take energy from like basic animals etc or certain plants. Meanwhile the superhumans that were born with powers can channel this metal from the earth making them more robotic and their powers becoming super raw and destructive.

>>22984158
>worldbuilding question
>>>/lit/wbg/

>send writing excerpt to brother
>he says i sound like the underground man and asks if i'm okay

I am editing and I feel miserable making so many corrections and revisions and full on rephrasings.

How do I avoid burnout while editing large chunks of material at once? Take a break every 2k words? Every 5k?

>>22983291
You don't have ADHD.

>>22984533
I love nothing more than fixing some drunk retard's stupid bullshit and taking what little quality there is and polishing it up. It's a process that you learn to appreciate for working a different part of your brain.

>>22984533
get a hobby you enjoy and it won't feel like work
no one is forcing you to do this but yourself

>>22984598
So what do you suggest as for breaks?
>>22984600
You really like repeating this huh hobbyposter

>>22984636
maybe you wouldnt complain so much about basic enjoyable tasks if this was your true calling

>>22984643
>basic enjoyable tasks
Are we talking about writing or editing hobbyposter

>>22984636
It depends on what you can handle. I try to make sure that sections have a consistent voice or tone without going into the writing trance and merely thinking it has that tone. if it's hard, you're probably not used to doing it, it's not like writing from an outline or off the dome.

>>22984659
I'll confess, that's my problem. I have always ran away from properly editing a work and I'm trying to level up my skills there.

>>22984663
Never forget that it's something like 3 novels or 30 short stories, each passing through multiple drafts, in the drawer for every winner. When starting out, at least.

>>22972342
Despite all the chicanery my family can throw at me, I am still trudging ahead. I even broke 20,000 words! I'm a lot more able to just write when I have to by this point. What's the time commitment to form a habit? 3 weeks? If I can make writing a habit, then it will stick when I start working in about a month, and then this thing might actually get finished.

>>22972409
We're at very similar points in our novels, I'd wager. I'm even on my own 7th chapter, although I'm close to the end of it.
First in a series, huh? I can't quite say the same, But I plan to make mine the first of many novels in its setting.

>>22976913
Fantasy name generator, or keyboard smash and then try to make a pronounceable word. Alternatively, you can go the Paolini route, and replace a normal word's most noticeable letter with another one. Consider "Eragon" vis a vis "Dragon".

>>22979573
So 1,000 is sufficient? Alright, will continue.

>>22983953
nta but i’m a writer with adhd and one of my biggest frustrations is my inability to write novel-length work. the most i’ve gotten up to is 40k before losing interest and moving onto something else. it really sucks.

>>22984944
I once knew a guy with this problem. He solved it by writing episodic shit around a central theme with the same characters. Once he had a novel's worth of material, he'd edit it down and thread a coherent narrative through each of the episodes.
Think 'freak of the week' TV show structure with an overarching plot tying everything together.

I'm an ESL "trying" to write a short story. Could some kind anon give me some pointers on how I could improve?
It's not that long, under 2.5k words.
The story's called: "The Cult of the first sect".

Here's the pastebin:
https://pastebin.com/eG3ThHDM

>anon wanted example of "good sex scene"

What kind of story are we talking about?

Sex scenes are a little like murder scenes. If the medium is "porn" then you have license to go all out like a murder scene would be in a "gore" story.

How important is the sex to the story? There are tricks you can pull to imply sex if two characters just have to fuck for reasons. You can even milk ambiguity for tension.

EX: She grabbed him by the thigh and pulled him close.

"Promise we won't talk about this,"

Unless your story absolutely needs a graphic sex scene, you're always better served by making a structure where your reader can fill in their erotic blanks. It's just like horror. No monster you describe can be as scary as someone's imagination creates.

>>22983953
i actually meant going past 2,000 words in a story so i can at least complete it.

i have many such 2,000 word half-stories i get distracted from and lose interest in.

>>22966566
I've been writing 23 pages a day (hope to do more without it devolving to drivel) and only take a breather to browse around here and to watch some nonsense so my mind eases up. I've getting really good with my rhythm of writing, I've been cutting off bad habits and repetitive usages of words, the dialogue is better, the formatting has improved since I read some examples of quick and snappy writing without sacrificing detail. I feel very good at the moment. When I write, I zone out completely and feel like what's being written on paper is happening for real and I'm a God figure. It's an intoxicating feeling.

How much do you guys write on a day?

>>22985037
he didnt solve shit. That is not how you create a story and that kind of loathsome hackery is what is killing literature.

I woke up at 3am after a graphic nightmare. The muse told me to write it, but I'm afraid to. I don't know where violent imagery like this comes from because I don't write things like that.

>>22985646
Look at it as an exercise in communicating what you visualize in your mind.

Is it a bad idea to reveal two plot twists at the same time? Like for example, you find out who the killer is, and then immediately you find out that the were actually two killers, or something like that. I'm thinking about it and it just feels wrong for some reason.

>>22985681
reveals are currency. use them wisely

>>22985764
>>22985764
>>22985764

>>22985094
A mystery novel is about solving mysteries, those have clues, deductive and inductive reasoning. Only hacks like Sherlock Holmes try to pass being smart as conjuring logical conclusions from minute details that either are never revealed or are so unimportant that the logical conclusions border on wild assumptions.
The very first mystery of your story is completely backwards. The idea that tape recorder was deliberately placed there is retrospectively retarded when you take into consideration that it's only much later revealed that it was both stolen, was not there before and that someone might have broken in to do so. Had you actually went through the motions of what your detective did when he arrived in his office I doubt that he wouldn't have pointed out that the recorder was not there and that someone might have broken in. He probably would even looked for such traces personally.
Saying that the recorder was placed there deliberately is also not showing that it was, which you did before, plentifully, making it a forgone conclusion to begin with. Not every single thing needs to be thought off, as in, shared with the reader. If you don't make your readers engage in the many mysteries of your story you will never get them invested. Let them come to their own conclusions. You should not craft a noir movie concerned with aesthetics, you should concern yourself with crafting mysteries for the audience to engage with, they don't have to be complicated, they just have to be there. Positive reinforcement is a great tool.
Your main character is also a non-existent figment in this story, he has no personality and barely an introduction. The way that your main character interacts with the world should be a reflection of their personality. That includes how he wants other people to see him, how he sees himself, how he fails to be his ideal self. That's the very basic establishment of self-esteem. Have him actually go up that three story building that you told us about and instead show us who Alan is through that building, what's in it and how he interacts with it.
Good writing is about a method and refinement of said method, you need a method if you want to write a story that isn't just someone saying that they cracked the case and shitting out assumption diarrhea that's totally right in the end. Or in this case listening to tapes and being very aloof about the idea of other people trespassing on his property because, you know, the description of the desk full of papers and a recorder was somehow more central for that story you came up with about the uncle schizo relaying his cult investigation over tapes that you had to write down on paper.
There's nothing wrong with making a rough draft or getting an idea down, but that's only the beginning. Don't get overwhelmed, establish what you want out of your work and create ways to achieve that over the course of a book. Too few here do.

>>22982781
Yeah, my word subscription just kicked me out. Now I have to use Google docs. I don't want to open a browser to write.... What else has a decent dark mode?