/lit/ - Literature

99% of fiction preceding the 2000s fits this description, honestly.

Jonathon Bowden has a good speech on this. In it he puts forward the idea that much modern fiction is based on Authoritarian/Fascist principles, from Captain America to Tintin, this is the Heroic. The only way they emerge is when they fight against a representation of itself, the Heroic Authoritarian character must be placed in a Liberal background fight against an Authoritarian/Fascist antagonist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caeJsWwGbwk

>>22972723
Based fellow Bowden admirer

Linking to a collection of his essays
https://counter-currents.com/2022/04/remembering-jonathan-bowden-8/
Seriously one of the best cultural critics I've ever read, his basic overviews of major literary figures are like an entire year-long college course

>>22972189
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Iron_Dream

>>22972728
Thanks for reminding me to read this one. Looked pretty funny.

>>22972723
>The only way they emerge is when they fight against a representation of itself, the Heroic Authoritarian character must be placed in a Liberal background fight against an Authoritarian/Fascist antagonist.

Yeah, wow, that sums it up

In a similar vein, I've always been enamoured by the aesthetic of traditional volkisch Germany. Beer, agriculture, tradition, beautiful girls, Werthers, delicious milk, and the Alps. Are there any fantasy novels (or sci fi, or whatever really...) that heavily evoke this scenario?

>>22972189
Philip K. Dick - The Man in the High Castle

>>22972723
this is why fiction sucks now, because writers have gotten wise to this, and now all fiction protagonists are purely reactive, waiting to be handed the magic macguffin to unlock a return to the status quo (Harry Potter is of course the archetypal example here)

>>22973395
This is actually blowing my mind right now. I can't believe I didn't see it.

>>22972723
Doesn't that only make sense if you believe that Heroism in a protagonist is exclusively an authoritarian trait?

>>22973395
If all stories either start with the hero going on a journey or their home being changed by someone's arrival or something's consequences, then all protagonists would be considered reactive. What protagonist would you say is "active"?

>>22973428
I said "purely reactive, waiting". Of course heroes usually react to a triggering event because a story has to start somewhere, but I'm saying their responses to that used to be based on their own agency.
detectives react to an initial crime but chase down every possible lead
horror protags react to finding themselves in an emergency by formulating a plan to escape, fight back
specific examples:
The Stainless Steel Rat
the protagonist of Demon Princes by Jack Vance
the detectives and scientists in Relic by Preston and Child
counterexamples:
Pact by Wildbow Jones. Let me just wander around listening to everyone tell me about the world of demons I've found myself in, vaguely hoping that in one of these ancient magic books I will find a super powerful spell that will allow me to win the game, but mostly just listening to people lecture me about their backstories
A Deadly Education by Naomi Novik. Let me just wander around my magic school waiting for something to happen. While walking in the library I happen to find a super-secret-and-powerful magic book that catapults me to the top of the school hierarchy, then I get attacked by the most powerful monster in the world, so I kill it single-handed because I'm just that awesome. Then some senior students tell me they're going to try and fix the magic monster-killing machine in the basement and ask if I want to tag along, so I say yes.

>>22972189
Umm, Der Ring des Nibelungen, I guess?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm8rwP94BmE

>>22973428
If the protagonist feels justified to impart his will onto others (i.e kill the bad guys, or make the exposition oracle guy he has to find spill the beans) then that is an authoritarian mindset.

Do heroic protagonists ask "the bad guys" to lay down their arms and engage in a dialectical debate about how everyone could get along if they compromise?

Sci-fi/fantasy genreshit is mostly right wing chuds

>>22973685

>>22973428
>Doesn't that only make sense if you believe that Heroism in a protagonist is exclusively an authoritarian trait

It is specifically Right-Wing authoritarian, as he seeks to rise above the masses, Left-Wing seeks to prevent this or set it up by egalitarian methods. The Hero is a singular man, he makes the crucial decision, the hero is never organized and selected by a council or by vote. He may have support in the form of a council he relies on but he is always superior to them.

This is changing now, which is why modern fiction is not enjoyable.

>>22973912
I'm going to a harsher hell, but I did a great service.

>>22973777
Prove me wrong

>>22973926
Nothing to prove wrong, you just reposted some twitter screenshot with a brain dead hot take

>>22973777
Still look better than the average chud, thoughbeit

>>22972189
Legend of the galactic heroes?

>>22973685
>>22973926
>>22973959
You had your fun, now you can go back to your discord server and tell your furry rp friends how you owed 4chink chuds

>>22973685
>Fantano
Didn't that guy make a collab video with Sam Hyde, lol

>>22974035
Well. If the strict of the corner is such successes in full examined from a beautiful mistake or else. And more advanced notions. What? After a few dreams?

>>22973968
>Martin, Card, Ringo

The list proceeds..

>>22972723
>Jonathon Bowden
WE'RE NOT SORRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>22973685
He is confusing the masses of the Left and Right (Both creatively barren) with elites. It is not a Left vs Right issue, but the masses vs the elites.

>>22974138
>>22972723
>>22972726
Bowden was dysgenic (fat)

>>22974187
Yeah, you'd know, you're an expert after all. You've studied the most dysgenic specimen in the world your entire life while looking in the mirror every morning

Kinda sad how the thread had an actual discussion for the first 15 posts or so, and then some retard came and derailed it completely.

>>22974278
The discussion was just milquetoast conservatism anyway, not properly Hitlerian so it is no great loss.

>>22974281
Have YOU added anything to the discussion, or are you just complaining? Because complaining is very easy, putting a modicum of effort is hard

>>22974187
>Bowden was dysgenic (fat)
But his mind was infinitely better than yours lmao

>>22974349
I was not complaining- I was pointing out why your complaint was absurd.

>>22974187
>Wealthy, middle-class intellectual is slightly overweight
His mind and speaking is second to none, i would have dearly loved to see him debate modern right wing public figures

>>22973685
literally all great music has been made by religious people who were deeply rooted in their own culture. I don't even advocate for that I am not a religious or a conservative person but it's simply a peanut brain take. tradition is inseparable from good art because tradition is what survives through the evolution process of culture, it is a process of thousands of years that leaves only gems and that is what feeds art. you can always find folk music influence in all classical composers, most even directly dedicated some of their compositions to it. how can someone who dedicates their entire career into looking into music and cannot see this? I only listen to classical music time to time and it's obvious to even me. what a fucking moron.

>>22974187
>Bowden is, like, fat. and stuff.
sick burn 8 year old.

>>22972723
I love Bowden and a lot of his speeches are really good. This one is good too, but I wished he actually spent more time talking about Léon Degrelle rather than digressing in to capeshit. Bit annoying.

>>22974591
I know, his speeches cover such a wide variety of topics, to the point that the title is only tangentially related.

>>22973685
Almost everyone in history was right wing by today's standards, including artists.

>>22974241
>>22974366
>>22974458
>>22974575
Your spiritual leader was biological refuse. Your pride in that says a lot about your spirit

>>22974187
Guy was a "right wing thug" before BAPites were even born

>>22976600
Post body, mohel.

>>22973685
>>22974035
I agree, but only if you distinguish between "conservative" and "right wing" here. No one who blindly believes in [status quo - 5 years] will ever be relevant. They have nothing interesting to say And are operating on an outdated set of official beliefs so no establishment institution will give them support nor will they be interesting enough to make it without said support.

Though, now that I wrote that out I remember Brandon "that mormon author" Sanderson exists who I assume is conservative, so what do I know? Though I guess being in Utah you could argue his conservatism is "up to date" in Utah?

Unironic answer although not quite what OP is looking for: Der Wehrwolf

>>22976630
So a pudgy retarded larper, got it

>>22976757
No racism outside of /b/ thanks