/lit/ - Literature

>>22973025
I'd like to congratulate this vedanta schizo thread for being the only interesting thing on /lit/ tonight.

Without a solid distinction between man and God, epistemology is impossible. Ortho Christianity is the way to go with the Essence Energy distinction

Buddhism is weird though, ya got em three

>>22973046
There*

>>22973025
There is also another Movie which I believe incorporates the very essence of A teaching,
This is "shawshank redemption" which I believe lays out in a very clear way, by analogy the view of "Kundalini Yoga"
You see Andy Dufrense escapes his prison cell, which is the "Ego" by penetrating the Wall (which happens to have a picture of a beautiful woman) which puts him inside a pipe [the subtle vein] (which he must detatch from because of it being sewerage) which he exits,
Where he then adopts a "phantom identity" he takes on the aspect of "anonymity," similar to the sannyasin who will be initiated by a funerary rite, reaching the Ocean "which has no memory"

It is interesting that his Friend in the Prison then finds the black Obsidian stone, (this could represent the muladhara plexus) and then he reunites with his friend Andy Dufrense in the Ocean with no Memory, the Ocean of God Consciousness.

>>22973046
I am confident that I do not have schizophrenia

>>22973046
*blocks you're path*

>>22973054
The role of the warden can also be considered, the warden ends up committing suicide, "when master of the House comes"
This shows to me the perfect submission of the "empirical ego" to the "transcendental ego" like wind reflecting sunlight illuminating the environment

The role of the "sisters" in the prison, who torment Dufrense in the first place, also has an interesting function, these could be viewed as "elemental being" the titanic forces of "Gog and Magog"

He destroys them by accepting though in an ultimately illusory way the "Empirical Ego" the Warden and the Guard, who Destroy the infernal forces and defend dufrense from the infernal forces, perfectly sealing him, but ultimately opening him to transcendent influences above.
Andy then establishes the "Library" a place of learning and engages in acts of Compassion, for his fellow prisoners, being a repository of benefic influences from above.

>>22973086
>>22973054
Dufrense using strikes by penetration the pipe (subtle vein) only in the moments that "lightning strike" this could be a symbol for the "descent of grace"

Which incidentally covers him from being detected by the Warden and the Guard, by covering the sound of striking the Pipe,

Dufrense uses the "Storm" as Cover for his salvific action, this could analogically show the "initiatic descent" into hell, the sense in which suffering and samsara is used and "taken on the path."


The American Hollywood industry fabricates pristine Brahma-Vidya.

>>22973046
I have seen Buddhism specifically the Vajrayana from what I have studied does incorporate the view of Yes Men, which is incorporated into the Svasaṃvedana view, it is only that some like Tsakongpha and the Prasangika approach, deny the self-reflixivity of awareness, showing that they are mere No Men.

But ultimately even the No Men are encompassed by the very fact that Liberation or the Infinite Yes, cannot be said to result from a deliberation on logical propositions, so whilst their is some disagreement between the likes of Tsakongpha and Garompa,
That "disagreement" is on the "outside," in the same way the nondual is the very self of the duality, or in the same way the denial of existence supposes the existence of a denial.

The true Yes Men are Human-Gods.

>>22973131
The other issue is to assume that Self-Reflexive Awareness and the Cognition are identical, or that the former is reducible to the Latter. But again that can be viewed as just semantics, and the "excessive deliberation" on logical propositions which merely introduce preparatory theoretical knowledge

>>22973025
I think you may be on to something OP!

>>22973046
>Without a solid distinction between man and God, epistemology is impossible.
Man and God are distinct in Advaita, The Atman-Brahman is which is everyone's actual identity is non-human and thus distinct from humans.

>>22973054
>>22973086
>>22973111
There is a specific scene
https://youtu.be/15pqpVbhs0c
"Hope" in this case refers to the very power involved,
Interestingly Red the friend is very sceptical as he says probably with some knowledge, that this "Hope" can lead to Insanity in a place like prison,
Very interesting is the real cases of Insanity and to see that there are phenomena involved which may related to an incomplete realization of the energy which travels up the central subtle vein, liberated into the "phantom identity" which has as its home the "ocean with no memory."

https://youtu.be/xFxAsYVVN7A
Reflect on the difference here, the Warden who as we have seen I the "empirical ego" cites a verse which can be interpreted along the line of "dualism" light vs. darkness,

>>22973046
The Essence-Energy distinction is quite interesting, and I think it conforms to the view of positing an Infinite and Universal Possibility aspect of the Absolute, or an Active (Essence) and Passive (Energy) aspect of the Infinite,

Of course the duality between the Essence and Energy is simply a nominal distinction, because God could not be held to be limited by "distinction," the Orthodox christian theology following the neoplatonic "One" filtered through dionysius the areopagite, point towards this this "transcendence" under the aegis of the "Ineffable"

>The true beginning of prayer is a feeling of warmth in the heart’ (1324AB). From these feelings of compunction and warmth the aspirant ascends to the ‘contemplation of the divine light’ that was manifested to the three disciples at the transfiguration on Tabor
>he essence indicates the divine transcendence and otherness; and as such it remains unknowable not only in the present life but in the age to come, not only to humankind but to the angels -- it is radically unknowable. Never in all eternity shall we come to know God’s essence -- that is to say, never shall we come to know God in the manner that he knows himself -- simply because he is Creator and we are creatures. Even in heaven the distinction between the uncreated and the created still prevails. But, unknowable in his essence, God is dynamically disclosed to us in his energies, which permeate the universe and in which we humans can directly participate, even in this present life. These energies are not an intermediary between God and man, but the living God himself in action; and so, sharing in the divine energies, the saints are indeed enjoying the true vision of God ‘face to face’.
>The essence-energies distinction-in-unity is for Palamas a way of holding in balance both transcendence and immanence, both the otherness and the nearness of God. He wishes to exclude pantheism, and yet to uphold the reality of direct personal communion with God. Because we participate in God’s energies, not in his essence, the mystical union is a union without confusion. Theōsis signifies the glorification but not the absorption of our created personal identity.
>What the saints see is the same uncreated light that shone from Christ at the transfiguration on Mount Tabor,
>It is a ‘non-material’ light (Triads, III, i, 22)
>Although non-material, the light is not merely imaginary or symbolic; it is not just a metaphorical ‘light of knowledge’ but is ‘hypostatic’, an existent reality (Triads, I, iii, 7).

>>22973411
>> Although the light is not a physical light of the senses, it can be perceived through the senses, provided that they are transformed by the grace of the Holy Spirit; for the human person is an integral unity, and the body shares with the soul in the vision of God. Thus the three disciples on Mount Tabor beheld the glory of the transfiguration through their bodily eyes; and the righteous at the resurrection of the body on the last day will likewise see the glorified Christ through their physical senses. Yet what enables us to see the divine light is not the organs of sense-perception by virtue of their own intrinsic power, but rather the grace of God that is active within them. None can behold the light except those who are spiritually prepared so to do; that is why Christ was transfigured before three disciples only, not before the crowds. In this way the light is to be termed both ‘invisible’ and yet ‘visible’ (Triads, I, iii, 16).

> The light is not created but uncreated and divine; it is the light of the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Spirit. But, while the light is God, it is God in his energies, not in his essence; it is God’s glory, not his inner nature. Because it is divine and is God himself, the light divinizes the beholder, conferring upon him the gift of theōsis.
> The light is infinite, ‘like an ocean without limits’ (Triads, III, i, 33), and so human beings will never see the whole of it, either in this life or in the age to come. God is indeed truly revealed in his divine energies, but he is never exhaustively revealed. In this way Palamas allows for St Gregory of Nyssa’s notion of epektasis or unending progress. Perfection is to be seen not in static but in dynamic terms: the blessed never reach a point where their pilgrimage comes to an end, but through all eternity they continue to advance further and further into the love of God.
> The light may rightly be termed both radiance and darkness. Taking up the statement of Dionysius the Areopagite, ‘The divine darkness is the unapproachable light in which God is said to dwell’ (Letter 5: PG 3. 1073A), Palamas says that ‘in the strict sense it is light’, for it is a supremely positive reality; but, ‘by virtue of its transcendence’, it is experienced by us as ‘darkness’ (Triads, II, iii, 51). So, like the Areopagite, he combines ‘solar’ and ‘nocturnal’ symbolism: ‘Even though it is darkness, yet it is surpassingly bright; and in that dazzling darkness, as the great Dionysius says, things divine are granted to the saints’ (Triads, I, iii, 18).

>>22973414
>>Palamas, like Symeon, believes that the light has a transforming effect upon the beholder. Just as Western saints who receive the stigmata, such as Francis of Assisi, enter physically into the mystery of the cross, so in the Byzantine East -- where the phenomenon of stigmatization is unknown -- the saints in their bodily experience enter rather into the mystery of the transfiguration. Taken up into the uncreated splendour, they themselves shine outwardly with the divine radiance that they contemplate, ‘transfigured from glory into glory’ (2 Cor. 3.18): ‘Participating in that which surpasses them they are themselves transformed into it . . . the light alone shines through them and it alone is what they see . . . and in this way God is all in all’ (Triads, II, iii, 31). This glorification of the body, while reserved in its plenitude to the last day, is partially anticipated even in this present life.
> TOWARDS the end of the fourteenth century, after the heat of the Palamite controversy had died down, the Hesychast teaching on the Jesus Prayer was summarized in a balanced and tranquil way by St Kallistos and St Ignatios Xanthopoulos in their work On the Life of Stillness and Solitude. Their approach is close to that of Gregory of Sinai. Like him, they see the aim of the spiritual life as the ever-increasing ‘manifestation’ of the grace of baptism: ‘Our final end . . . is to return to that perfect spiritual re-creation by grace which was conferred upon us at the outset as a free gift from above by the holy font’ (§4). They attach cardinal importance also to the Eucharist: communion should be ‘continual’ (§91), even daily (§92), for ‘these are the things that the enemies fear most of all: the cross, baptism, communion’ (§92). In the spiritual life they assign a privileged place to the Jesus Prayer: ‘The beginning of all work pleasing to God is the invocation with faith of the saving name of our Lord Jesus Christ’ (§8). The Prayer may be accompanied by the physical technique, with control of the breathing, but this is no more than an accessory or laid’ (§24). The invocation should be without ‘thoughts’ or the use of the imagination (§25), and should be so far as possible continual:

>>22973418
>> Highly educated, pursuing in his earlier years a political career, Cabasilas to the best of our knowledge was never ordained or professed a monk. Although he wrote a short tract in support of Palamas against Gregoras, in his two main works, The Life in Christ and A Commentary on the Divine Liturgy, Cabasilas avoids all explicit reference to specifically Hesychast themes, such as the Jesus Prayer, the light of Tabor, or the uncreated energies. He expounds the spiritual way simply in terms of the sacraments: ‘life in Christ’ is nothing else than ‘life in the sacraments’, and this is accessible to each one alike, whether monastic or married, whether priest, soldier, farmer or the mother of a family. Like Palamas, he sees continual prayer as the vocation of all: ‘It is quite possible to practise continual meditation in one’s own home without giving up any of one’s possessions’ (The Life in Christ, 6; ET, p. 174). Hesychasm is in principle a universal path.

>>22973411
>Although non-material, the light is not merely imaginary or symbolic; it is not just a metaphorical ‘light of knowledge’ but is ‘hypostatic’, an existent reality (Triads, I, iii, 7).
this points more to the Orthodox christians as being more on the side of Yes Men even though they proclaim the radical Unknowabiltiy

they should do a remake of "Yes Man" where the protagonist lives in Baltimore or Chicago or some similar such city. it'd be a completely different, and much shorter movie.

>>22973414
>… FOR [during contemplation] a man truly sees neither by the intellect nor by the body, but by the Spirit, and he knows that he sees supernaturally a light which surpasses light. But at that moment he does not know by what organ he sees this light, nor can he search out its nature, for the Spirit through whom he sees is untraceable.
>

Such a one does not see by sense perception, but his vision is as clear as or clearer than that by which the sight clearly perceives sensibilia. He sees by going out of himself, for through the mysterious sweetness of his vision he is ravished beyond all objects and all objective thought, and even beyond himself.

>Under the effect of the ecstasy, he forgets even prayer to God. It is this of which St. Isaac speaks, confirming the great and divine Gregory:
>“Prayer is the purity of the intellect which is produced with dread only from the light of the Holy Trinity.”

>And again, “Purity of spiritual mind is what allows the light of the Holy Trinity to shine forth at the time of prayer.

>This was what Paul said when he heard ineffable words and saw invisible things: “I know not whether I saw out of the body or in the body.” In other words, he did not know whether it was his intellect [nous] or his body which saw.
>The mind then transcends prayer, and this state should not properly be called prayer, but a fruit of the pure prayer sent by the Holy Spirit. The mind does not pray a definite prayer, but finds itself in ecstasy in the midst of incomprehensible realities.
>It is indeed an ignorance superior to knowledge.”

>This most joyful reality, which ravished Paul, and made his mind go out from every creature but yet return entirely to himself - this he beheld as a light of revelation, though not of sensible bodies; a light without limit, depth, height or lateral extension.
>He [St. Paul] saw absolutely no limit to his vision and to the light which shone round about him;
>but rather it was as it were a sun infinitely brighter and greater than the universe, with himself standing in the midst of it, having become all eye.
>Such, more or less, was his vision.

>THIS is why the great Macarius says that this light is infinite and supercelestial
>ANOTHER saint, one of the most perfect (i.e. St. Benedict; Dial.2.35.3), saw the whole universe contained in a single ray of this intelligible/noetic sun:
>even though he himself did not see this light as it is in itself, in its full extent, but only to that extent that he was capable of receiving it.
>By this contemplation and by his supra-intelligible union with this light,
>he did not learn what it is by nature, but he learnt that it really exists, is supernatural and superessential, different from all things; that its being is absolute and unique, and that it mysteriously comprehends all in itself. This vision of the Infinite cannot permanently belong to any individual or to all men.

>>22973439
>He who does not see understands that he is himself incapable of vision because not perfectly conformed to the Spirit by a total purification, and not because of any limitation in the object of vision.
>But when the vision comes to him, the recipient knows well that it is that light, even though he sees but dimly; he knows this from the impassible joy akin to the vision which he experiences, from the peace which fills his mind, and the fire of love for God which burns in him.
>The vision is granted him in proportion to his practice of what is pleasing to God, his avoidance of all that is not, his assiduity in prayer, and the longing of his entire soul for God; always he is being borne on to further progress and experiencing even more resplendent contemplation.
>He understands then that his vision is infinite because it is a vision of the Infinite, and because he does not see the limit of that brilliance; but, all the more, he sees how feeble is his capacity to receive the light.

>>22973442
>How can this be accomplished corporeally, now that He Himself is no longer corporeally present after His ascension to the heavens?

It is necessarily carried out in a spiritual fashion, for the mind becomes supercelestial, and as it were the companion of Him who passed beyond the heavens for our sake, since it is manifestly yet mysteriously united to God, and contemplates supernatural and ineffable visions, being filled with all the immaterial knowledge of a higher light. Then it is no longer the sacred symbols accessible to the senses that it contemplates, nor yet the variety of Sacred Scripture that it knows; it is made beautiful by the creative and primordial Beauty, and illumined by the radiance of God.

>Τοῦτο δὲ πῶς ἂν γίγνοιτο σωματικῶς, μηκέτι σωματικῶς αὐτοῦ παρόντος μετὰ τὴν εἰς οὐρανοὺς ἀνάληψιν;Τελεῖται τοίνυν κατὰ πᾶσαν ἀνάγκην νοερῶς, ὁπηνίκα γεγονὼς ὁ νοῦς ὑπερουράνιος καὶ οἷον ὁπαδὸς χρηματίσας τοῦ ὑπεραναβεβηκότος δι’ ἡμᾶς τοὺς οὐρανούς, ἐμφανῶς καὶ ἀπορρήτως ἑνωθείη τῷ Θεῷ ἐκεῖ καὶ τῶν ὑπερφυῶν καὶ ἀπορρήτων ἐπιτυγχάνοι θεαμάτων, πάσης ἀΰλου γνώσεως, ὑψηλοτέρου φωτὸς ἀναπιμπλάμενος, οὐχ ὡς αἰσθητῶν συμβόλων ἱερῶν θεωρός, οὐδ’ ὡς ἱερογραφικῆς ποικιλίας ἐπιγνώμων, ἀλλ’ ὡς τῷ καλλοποιῷ καὶ ἀρχικῷ καλλωπιζόμενος κάλλει καὶ τῇ τοῦ Θεοῦ λαμπρυνόμενος λαμπρότητι.

Yes.

>>22973424
Kek'd