/lit/ - Literature

>>22931411
Modern Ukrainian literature tends to be surreal postmodernist dramas or magical realism, neither of which does very well on the international scene. Both genres tend to lose too much in translation.

>>22931502
They also outsell every other genre and get better reviews overall
See:
Bolaño, Krasznahorkai, Cartarescu, Kobo Abe, Melchor, etc

>>22931411
I dont understand the "Major consumer goods company implicitly supports other side by not explicitly supporting my side" niggers

wtf this guy works at Harvard. Very unprofessional behavior.

>>22931531
I guarantee you more people are reading Lukyanenko and Panov than any of those. Ukraine is making the rookie mistake of pushing their difficult artistic stuff on the international scene first, instead of starting with genre trash and using that as a wedge to get the rest in.

>>22931531
>Cartarescu
I had to read one of his short stories or whatever in the beginning of high school and I found it so annoying and repulsive it put me off him forever. Now it's kind of hard to avoid him because he releases a 500+ page book every two years and it ends up on every shelf in every bookstore. Also the eternal muh Nobel which has become a bit of a joke.

>>22931617
I've read The Roulette Player and Solenoid and I thought they were pretty good.

>>22931629
Murnane>>22931617

>>22931411
>Hohol acts like a retarded animal
Quelle surprise

I know this isn't the place to complain but I don't know why Ukrainians have to be like this
It's pathetic

>>22931689
Huh?

btw notice how he capitalizes 'Ukrainian' but not 'Russian'. Subtle.

>>22931411
Whoa NYRB is owned by Putin to get the West into thinking they are the good guys. EVIL THEY MUST BE PUNISHED

>>22931714
I noticed this, lol, and he even works at Harvard.

>>22931411
Literary value is a subjective thing, which is forced by many factors, like political one. Many people eat shit because it was written by someone from a big and loud country, you know.

May the demons who pitted Ukraine and Russia against eachother for their own ends burn in the fires of hell for eternity

May the small-souled tranny freaks who take delight in the deaths of random schmucks ten thousand miles away because "they're on the other side lmao" be fucked in the ass by Satan even harder than they already have been forever

>>22931770

>>22931770
I just wish all of my country's tax money wasn't funneled into Ukraine.

>>22931787
Show us your pasport.

>>22931411
They publish Drieu, Malaparte, Jünger, Campo, after all

>>22931779
A Ukranian is just a Russian that an Englishman tricked into believing he was a Pole in order to steal Crimea from the tsar.

>>22931791
Everything's in order, officer

>>22931819
Your government disarmed Ukraine in the 1990s-2000s and signed the Budapest Memorandum. Sorry, mate, but you must pay.

>>22931869
It's "The Ukraine", not a real state, it shouldn't have nukes

>>22931411
nigger-tier gibsmedats. Ukies should be embarrassed

>>22931411
They're an essentially modern people with no history, no culture and no virtues beyond climbing the ladder and stealing from each other. The Kiev mafia embodies the worst traits of the Slavic race.

>>22931873
Russia isn't a real state either, so atomic spies shouldn't have given nukes to it, but history is what it is.

>>22931895
I agree, I just think people that want to drain my wallet should be killed by a second world dictator

>>22931900
Your goverment shouldn't have interfered in the nuke affair. Act like a man, deal with consequences.

>>22931910
Nah a rump state shouldn't have nukes, I generally oppose the (((state department))) but they did nothing wrong there

>>22931910
Patton should've just been allowed to keep going east like he wanted.

>>22931915
OK, why are you whining about your obligations?

>>22931923
What obligations? They should be left out to dry.

russians got one of their own as a /lit/ janny and are now going crazy on this board.

>>22931966
I hope more slavs die btw. We need to send more money so they wont stop dying.

I've come to hate Ukraine, when I felt neutral towards them 5 years ago

>>22932160
I don't quite hate them, but I think if they were being honest with me I'd have more sympathy. I dislike being lied to and transparent attempts at emotional manipulation.

>>22932160
I didn't even know they existed before this war.

>>22931531
Are any of those listed writers actually considered Magical Realism? Confused as to who "they" is in the first sentence.

>>22931910
>Your goverment
Oxymoron.

>>22932179
Same lol very confusing. I think they're postmodern.

>>22932160
I don't really blame the people for what's happened. Zelensky was elected on making detente with Russia, but the genuine Nazi militias in the country publically threatened to kill him if he made a deal with Putin even before the war started. I definitely blame U.S. policy for provoking Putin into invading, although I also blame Putin for not exploring other options. He had a lot of leverage with his oil and natural gas, and he should have used that to push back against NATO encroachment rather than this horrible war.
Ultimately the actual people of Ukraine have been royally fucked over by both sides in a way that nobody deserves. Even though most of them would probably visciously disagree with me about the U.S. role in this (or maybe not, idk) I can't blame them for reacting to their homeland being invaded in the way they have. I've had a few Ukrainian coworkers in the last year and they've been really chill. Contrary to OP's post, one of them was happy to talk about Chekhov and Bulgakov and taught me a bit of Russian (he's from close to the Donbass and speaks Russian to another coworker rather than Ukrainian).
Fuck Zelensky, but lets not tar the whole country; although as a leaf I certainly have a strong interest in people not judging countries by their leadership haha.

The ukoper cyber army concern trolls topics to try and increase support for the war abroad, not realizing they're teaching everyone around them they're disruptive nuisances
https://thegrayzone.com/2022/04/17/traitor-zelensky-assassination-kidnapping-arrest-political-opposition/

This country is a hellhole

>>22932232
>I've had a few Ukrainian coworkers in the last year and they've been really chill.
Refugees?

>>22932232
What made it for me was meeting ukrainian hoes on tinder.

>>22932234
>26 december 2022
I remember how this was spammed last christmas.
>>22932232
completely non-lit related russian thread for russians to go on /lit/ and talk about how much they hate ukrainians and want to genocide them. leftypol troon drags its carcass in to say I totally get how you guys feel <3 gosh it's just so horrible everything that's happening it's totally the evil wests and nazi zelenskys fault you guys!

/lit/ has definitely gotten a russian janny.

>>22932258
I just found it. Russia should unironically curbstomp everyone in the political class in that country

>>22932179
"They" refers to the literary genres, I think.

>>22931411

if the enemy is the globohomo why are /pol/ cels so fixated on hating ukranians?

I dont get why they adopt this irrational hatred actual ziggers have against Ukranians for not wanting to be russians

>>22932289
There are ethnic Russians who speak Russian in certain regions of the Ukraine.

>>22931502
Shut the fuck up, you genuine retard

>>22932296

and?

>>22932308
They should be part of Russia.

>>22932309

they can always move
cant have a subversive section of the population undermining their host country, right?

>>22932332
>host country
lol

>>22932239
Yeah. One found out his family's apartment complex had been bombed while we were out (noone died). Pretty rough.
>>22932258
>leftypol troon
lol, lmao even.
I went out of my way to say I'm not on Putin's side of this either. I'm just agreeing with cold warriors like George Kennan that being outrageously hawkish towards Russia after the Soviet Union fell apart was outrageously dumb and led to the outcome that he predicted. Hang Putin on the same gallows as Bush, Obama, Clinton, Trump etc for all I care, but lets not act like the U.S. wouldn't have nuked Moscow if Russia had been funnelling billions of dollars of weapons into Mexico, endorsing color revolutions in Canada, etc.

>>22931700
>I don't know why Ukrainians have to be like this
Peasant culture. Take the Galkovsky-pill

>>22932353
holy shit the dishonesty. yeah you just repeat every single piece of russian propaganda while going muh both sides bad. totally not a leftypol troon.

>>22932374
NTA but right wingers can be pro Russia, too.

>Why are Ukrainians so jealous of Russian literature

>>22932374
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4
America more or less started this whole thing for the sake of geopolitics and now an entire country is getting bled white over it

>>22932374
>russian propaganda
Saying there's no evidence that Iraq had WMDs was an "Iraqi talking point". If something's true, it's true. If I lived in Russia I would hate Putin as much or more than I hate Trudeau, but again, that doesn't change the facts. Why are my arguments Russian talking points rather than George Kennan/Pat Buchanan/William Burns/Right-wing American talking points?

>>22932406
they had to invade ukraine in a special anti-nato operation even though ukraine wasn't getting into nato and their invasion directly caused the expansion of nato.
best anti-nato operation ever.
>>22932437
>If I lived in Russia I would hate Putin as much or more than I hate Trudeau, but again, that doesn't change the facts. Why are my arguments Russian talking points rather than George Kennan/Pat Buchanan/William Burns/Right-wing American talking points?
leftypol troon meltdown.

>>22932406
>source: sputniknews
Hello Johnny Idaho from Texas oblast.

>>22931502
wtf that sounds cool

>>22931714
based. russians aren't humans

Cultural shifts on this site have caused posters to no longer support the underdog, committing to absurdist contrarianism as a substitute for personality and freedom of thought. The vitriolic contempt levied at a sovereign nation defending itself against an unjust aggressor is mildly surprising but the lack of reflection and empathy is symptomatic of ‘hot take’ culture. The drones think they’re too good for social media but proceed to act like passive aggressive teenagers acting out against their parents, supporting a side that manipulates their emotions on a daily basis. The safety of their gaming chairs emboldens their actions while they cheer on tyranny. It’s understandable that Europeans feel no shame supporting Russia as they’re generational bootlickers but I feel a great sense of shame knowing fellow Americans engage in support for Russia despite our own nations history of combating foreign oppression. When china invades Japan they’ll all change their tunes and suddenly be freedom fighters instead of intellectual speed bumps.

>>22932633
Boomer take.

>>22932470
>>22932477
there is a safe space dedicated 100% to a highly censored pro ukranian version of the war at odds with reality on /k/ope right now. Time to go bac/k/

>>22931617
Haven't read Solenoid but I thought Nostalgia was half great stories / half repetitive dross. Best one was Mentardy, followed by The Roulette Player.

>>22932633
It does speak to the sheer divide in this country, where one side will take stances, no matter how hypocritical, out of sheer spite for the other side - and vice versa. I wonder if we'll ever recover from the civil war.
Remember, some of our own are fighting out there, on both sides. And they're both people. Pic rel is from /a/ and it's possible he's not even alive anymore.

>>22932633
There is no "underdog" in this war.

One participant is historically a massive whore for any nation that pays, from off-the-books biolabs to whatever else, currently being puppeteered by the United States in order to prop up the big bloodsoaked American military industrial complex at the "mere cost" of average peoples' lives. It's also had a zionist installed as president.

The other is a dystopian state and basically the equivalent of if the USA was ran by its CIA from top to bottom. Because machismo-addicted sociopaths (or perhaps just one) and their (or his) yes-men hold all power, the nation eagerly stumbles into any challenge, and are presently cashing in human lives in exchange for minor territory gains that probably won't even last.

Neither side are the good guys here. One allowed the demented psychopaths in the American government to absolutely consume them, and it's cost them absolutely everything from their citizens to their identity as a nation. The other is the national equivalent of a man falling down an endless flight of stairs, where no leverage may ever be attained to prop themselves back up because everyone's lost any hope of escaping demented psychopathic KGB faggotry. The Cold War continues to be one of the worst things to happen to the human race, on par with Waterloo and the French Revolution for completely fucking things. A bunch of paid retards on /k/ or /pol/ dogmatically insisting one side is "better" is beneath you, it's beneath all of us.

>>22931502
I love ukrainian now

>>22931689
Yes Murnane is a far better writer but everyone already knows that.

Fuck yes, more Platonov. Soul was really really good.

I'd be down for more Ukrainian translations too if the books are good. Anyone got any good recs for Ukrainian stuff that's currently translated?

>>22932838
Murnane sucks, especially his prose.

>>22931411
As a Ukrainian I think Chevengur is a very good book, but Platonov is one of those authors that imo can't be translated properly. A lot of his charm comes from his specific style inspired by the crude language of uneducated soviet rednecks used back in ~1900s, without it it's not that good.

>>22932865
Shut it gypsie shill

>>22932887
Why did I think that their translation of Soul was an extremely good book then? Did they trick me?

>>22932889
Fuck off abbo shill

>>22932247
Same, love them lil thotties like you wouldnt believe. They know they won't realistically return in their lives so might as well hoe it up.

>>22931411
All the talented Ukrainians are being used to direct and film "trailers" for their offensives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSLotdNMB4Y

>>22932296
There are ethic Anglos who speak English in certain regions of the USA.

>>22931411
Do modern ukrainians not identify with the ukrainians of the soviet union? They left quite a literary legacy.

>>22931411
As a Ukrainian, my main concern is that Russian literature is highly overrated in the West. I read most of the Russian classics in the original and often they are very mediocre books. English-language literature is incredibly superior to everything created not only by Russians, but all Slavs.
A lot of russian authors also gate my people vut i don't care.

>>22933503
Soviet literature is shit.

>>22933541
Yeah, that was said here >>22931761

>>22933546
Will you expand on that? I'm sure you're aware how obviously controversial, provocative and baity of a statement that is.

>>22933562
Quality Soviet literature ended with the death of Bulgakov and the beginning of social realism in culture. There are few "relatively" interesting authors, and the complete shit of the majority. Modern Russian literature is about the same, although there is no censorship. There are loners worthy of mention (Sorokin, Pelevin, Akunin, Vodolazkin) and millions of morons who write isekai about Stalin, who fell into the body of Nicholas 2 in the universe of Star Wars.
Also in general, Russian literature can be described as "a boring sad little man Ivan Govnov gets into a monstrous situation (born in Russia), suffers a lot, ends up in prison and/or dies".

>>22932795
I thought the French Revolution was a good thing? I mean, it sucks that Marie Antoinette died because someone spread a cake eating rumor but besides that everyone else deserved it.

>>22933635
Sorokin fucking sucks

>>22933670
He is funny rusophobe with interesting style.
Do you eat your norma today?

>>22933661
>everyone else deserved it
did even robespierre believe this in the end?

>>22933683
His humor is just a knock-off Celine. I’d rather exclusively read Journey for the rest of my life than be forced to read Sorokin’s schlock

>>22933661
>it sucks that Marie Antoinette died because someone spread a cake eating rumor but besides that everyone else deserved it
This is your brain on leftist media.
>leftists claim Bastille is big bad
>retards hate big bad king because Bastille
>siege Bastille
>de Launay military governor of Bastille surrenders and lowers the drawbridge
>find 7 prisoners (4 forgers, 1 regicide attempter, 1 schizo who believed he was Caesar, 1 aristocrat imprisoned by request of his family)
>oof
>search for implements of torture, skeletons, starving prisoners, find none
>oof
>double down
>kill de Launay, place his head on a pike, parade it through city
>keep claiming Bastille was big bad
>vive la révolution !

>>22933546
Anyway you can try Ivan Bahrianyi's books.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Bahrianyi

As I know, there is only "The Hunters and the Hunted" on the Anna's Archive.

>>22933635
What about Mamleev?

>>22933749
Stop spamming this board, you overweight American. Fuck off back to /k/, so you fit right back in with your nafo brother in arms and the board’s collective IQ of 65

>>22933746
I read this in school, it's just ok.
Also he lived in soviet union, but have antisoviet believes. I don't consider people with antisoviet believes like Solzhenitsyn as part of soviet writers.

>>22933760
Shizo writer, try if you want something mad.

>>22933762

>>22933661
>everyone else deserved it
They sure did!

OINKRAINE IS WINN-ACKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK