/lit/ - Literature

Sooner than 17?

>>22932747
*tips fedora*

>>22932748
I'm not sure what you mean, but I only got a hold of this recently from a friend's bookshelf and just kept reading. Definitely getting my own copy

>>22932748
>>22932753
New Atheism is just old atheism freed from the constraints of a public that is outwardly and loudly very religious. It is just more Huxley and Darwin and Freud, but channeled into a publically accesible venom which is appealing or annoying or horrible depending on who you are. In any case atheism is not something which may be dismissed outright, no matter what caricature you intend to give it. The fact that a vociferous minority of the early internet sought to broadcast it, as sincerely impassioned teenagers, is no grounds to humiliate or dismiss it. It is time to retire the Fedora.

>>22932776
>It is time to retire the Fedora.

Anon, don't take away all they have

I'm not even religious but fuck this guy. 'God is not real' is a really low hanging fruit for any real scientist to write or talk about. But he has no real contributions in science. He will be only be remembered as a raving atheist. No one gives a shit about his work because it's largerly theories and speculations based on other people's studies and work. I have not read this book but I'm 100% sure he's just reiterating other men's words and thoughts just like he is with his books on biology.
I would have been okay with this in a period where culture is dominated by religion, but in today's world it's just a bunch of patronizing faggots who think being atheist gives them 20 extra IQ points. There's no philosophy in the discourse on God anymore, it's just marvel multiverse theories making people think the universe is some fucking circus born out of chaos and randomness.

>>22932747
This book doesn't even begin to address this 'steelmanned" argument for the existence of God.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxYbA1pt8LA
https://vitrifyher.wordpress.com/2018/11/22/the-case-for-the-physical-existence-of-god/

>>22932827
An enemy that numbers time in millennia with a cultural basis that goes back to preliterate man and symbolism rooted in primordial hominids appears!
>[(You)--Choose your fighter]!
a) Richard Dawkins: rat-faced evolutionary biologist who popularized the word meme (secret weapon: Scientism; weakness: Kafka)
b) Sam Harris: midwit who solved the problem of induction (secret weapon: meditation; weakness: complex thought)
c) Christopher Hitchens: reformed commie/former fag with great talent for rhetoric (secret weapon: alcoholic snark (aka Hitchslap); weakness: Neoconservatism)
d) Daniel Dennett: Saturday morning philosopher (secret weapon: midwit empowerment (aka Reddit); weakness: phenomenology)
>(You): WEAPONIZED CONDESCENTION! ALL FOUR HORSEMEN, I CHOOSE (You)s!
*****[Fight!]*****
>(You) choose: YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN SANTA CLAUS, DO YOU?!
[Counter attack: nuance. Enemy isn't 4 and is unimpressed you don't believe in Santa. Attack is ineffective.]
>(You) choose: WHY DON'T YOU WORSHIP ZEUS?!
[Counter attack: nuance. Even myth is meaningful in a way not reducible to materialism. Attack is ineffective.]
>(You) choose: SCIENCE THOUGH!
[Counter attack: nuance. Enemy brings up the history of science and its complex relationship and continuing interplay with religion. Attack is ineffective.]
>(You) choose: FEDORA TIP!
[Counter attack: enemy is laughing.]
>(You) choose: NO YOU!
[Counter attack: enemy is laughing.]
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>[(You) have fainted.]

Instead of responding to the bait, help me out. I have two beliefs I can't reconcile.
>obey God
>don't practice divination
How do I do both of these? I don't know what God wants me to do if I don't ask him and then divine the answer.

>>22933170
you can't do one without the other, you are still simply disobeying God as you reject divine revelation, acknowledgement of the latter accepts the reality of God. reject reason then you will come to know him.

>>22933204
Reject reason and you will come to know the devil, you misleading false teaching evil piece of shit.

>>22933021
>Even myth is meaningful in a way not reducible to materialism.

That's not what Abrahamic religion believes

>>22933369
NTA but nah, even the bible get's pretty perennialist at times. Read it again.

>>22933372
No, it explicitly doesn't. That's literally the first of the Ten Commandments

op here sorry posted the wrong book.
this is the book i meant to post.

>>22932936
He does have real scientific contributions though, it was just some time ago.

Haven't read it yet, but if it made people seethe and they are cannot criticize this book seriously and just post fedora/onions Jack's and other memes - this is good book.

Why do people on 4chan try to act religious and trad? If you where actually religious, you wouldn't be on 4chan.

>>22933957
being religous and trad is boring as fuck anyways, the world is still shit no matter how hard we pray.

Most neo-atheism endeavors to create the most garish and retarded metaphysical perspectives of God so that they can come along and knock them down. They're guilty of fighting strawmen.
>Religious people believe in an omnipotent sky-daddy
Perhaps low-IQ Bible belt protestants believe deity is a literal dude hanging out in the sky, but most religious people tend to view God as some sort of cosmic intellect that has personified himself. Even my explanation dumbs it down. Every culture believes differently and describes deity completely distinctly. There is no "typical" believer. Another problem with atheists is that they impose rationality on an inherently irrational species. Human beings evolved to be magical thinkers because it was the best survival strategy in this incredibly complicated and chaotic universe. To deny our nature and our need to believe doesn't lessen this need.

>>22933984
> but... but what about... LE BIBLE CONTRADICTIONS????

>>22934001
Another great example of an atheist talking point. This presumes that christians and jews believe that the Bible literally happened exactly as it was written instead of it being largely symbolic. This is why youtube atheists loved to go after people like Kent Hovind (a known grifter and convicted criminal) because he was the epitome of what atheists imagine their opponents to be. When confront with arguments that contain any metaphysical or theological nuance, the atheist recoils and accuses the believer of cherry picking. The only flavor of believer an atheist will tolerate is the science-denying, biblical literalist - and tolerate so long as they can hold them up in the air after they've beaten them with the weight of their massive ego, whoops, I mean "intellect".

>>22932747
god is geometry, T'Challa

>>22934026
The impression I get from atheists is that of mental masturbation, thinking too highly of themselves, always. An atheist cannot possibly conceive in his mind even the remotest of possibilities of being wrong, without feeling disgusted. He lives on a tiny circle of his own, denying a large part of the humanity that makes himself up, all for the vanity of "outsmarting" others. By merely being religious, you already ensnare the atheist into never leaving his circle, for yours is bigger around his, and he will always try to bring you down into the smaller one, with fallacies and tunnel vision, that would otherwise catch a man of religion whose beliefs are not solidified just yet, but proves to be an endeavour most fruitless amongst the learned. Never have I seen an atheist wanting to tackle a learned man heads-on, it is always the low hanging fruits

>>22934064
Spot on. I suspect that the atheists most outspoken are also the dumbest. I'd be interested in hearing from an atheist that has carefully thought through his perspective and lived to not tell the tale to every soul he comes upon. I imagine these atheists are out there, but they likely keep their thoughts to themselves.

>>22933984
>>22934026
>>22934064
>>22934090
This is a really pathetic attempt at sophistry. Even Peterson failed at this. If most religious people were deists are you say they were, there wouldn't be any problems. It is precisely because they take up "god and rules" to be literal and try to impose them onto others is why the problem occurs.

>>22932747
Read it around ten years ago. Too much christianity bashing but yeah, based book

>>22933984
>>22934001
>>22934026
>>22934064
>>22934090

>>22934064
every rich person knows magic is real dumb fuck, the venal ones like dawkins just cash the pope's check and lie about it

>>22934110
This. If you want responses to super intellectual versions of theism, there are actual academic philosophers who write that stuff. Meanwhile popular atheist writers respond to popular theistic ideas, which are in fact retarded and easy to defeat. Well, mostly. Sometimes Dawkins tries to take on someone like Aquinas and it's embarrassing.

>>22934631
Fair; recommend me some of these whose ideas make sense, if you'd like.

>>22932747
You really need a book to form arguments against existence of God? I could do that when I was 12. Then I grew up and just realized it's just culture, religion is culture that's it.

>>22933550
The issue with the kind of work he did is that it's still a bunch of conjecture. The God Delusion is just the most obvious example of it. It's easy to say that you're right because you came up with good arguments that are hard to refute, but that's not science. He was taking advantage of the fact that microbiology and genomics was nowhere close to being able to disprove what he said so he could get away with all kinds common sense fallacies.

>>22932753
You are a rare gentleman in these troubled times.

>>22932747
Lmfao Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion would fail any introductory philosophy or religion course. Proudly he criticizes that whereof he knows nothing.

>>22933170
Go ask a father anon and ask for help on what to do, he will help you because you have have asked.
The Catechism says "CCC-2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to "unveil" the future.Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone."

Dawkins can write coherently but none of atheism's arguments are great.
>the universe assembled to support life somehow from 1 in 1000 trillion odds
>so logically the universe is likely infinite with infinitely many universes with infinitely many different endless rules that are all different
>so it seems like the universe was created but there's likely a lot of fuck up universes that can't be seen or proven in any way shape or form
>other than the fact that I think that the universe shouldn't exist
this is the power of SCIENCE
A similar argument exists with the 1 in 1000 trillion odds against life occurring.
If there was a creator he would likely be very disappointed with these morons but that's only speculation. What can be proven is that atheists are the most depressed and despised group in any society for their uneducated narcissism and sheltered lives.
There's so many ways to lift the veil, if only for a minute, that can cue people into the majesty of the universe. It's so sad that society has to obey materialist morons and the hollow nihilistic culture they think is the objective, rather than the means to provide the leisure time to explore higher forms of consciousness.

>>22934838
The Church should be a steward of divine power instead of another force opposing it. The call to be like Jesus isn't moral grandstanding, it's an instruction to aspire to greatness. The humility and goodwill is there to temper the power, not divorce yourself from it.

>>22934865
>1 in 1000 trillion odds
Where did you even get this number from?

>>22934887
To use Dawkin's own phrase:
>the odds of a tornado blowing through a junk yard and assembling a 747 airplane

Notice how everyone in this thread has evidencd for god but never provides any. Theism is just sophistry.

>>22934892
But the universe itself is unknowning vast znd is 13.6 billion years old. We haven't look properly to even know that life doesn't exist anywhere else. So those numbers are pointless.

>>22934898
Don't conflate the existence of life itself within the universe (highly unlikely) and the fact that that a universe exists to support life (absurdly unlikely).
>So those numbers are pointless
The point still stands. By every account, even the direst atheist, the universe appears to have been created masterfully by an intelligent and considerate entity. The atheist can only claim this is true yet absurd. A religious person claims it is true and logical.

>>22934922
Brother, you abuse me with your poor thinking. What wrong have I done you?

>>22933375
This book and the entire new atheist framing of the world would not exist without burger creationists, it's purely reactionary to them and completely focused on that tiny minority of insane retards. It's not relevant to any attempts to understand history, myths or religions.

>>22934867
What you call "divine" is not divine but a perversion and superstition aswell. Please stop acting like you know better.

>>22933170
It's referencing a common phenomena at the time translated as "divination" which usually means something wider now.
Don't rely on oracles, don't rely on signs from sheep intestines for war strategy etc like was common. The word "superstition" was coined by Christians and the anti "superstition" stance has gone way too far.
Taking oracles too seriously can easily lead to disaster but it's not some special evil with some metaphysically evil aura or whatever. Relax and try to understand the dangers and how they relate to your own behaviour. If you can't explore what you're being warned about at all you'll have no experience if it shows up in some unexpected form.

>>22934865
You are just an American, atheists are very accepted in many parts of the world.

>>22932753
christian's only argument ever

>christian's only argument ever

>>22934110
>YOU'RE A SOPHIST
Citation needed, fuckwit. Calling someone something because you don't agree with them doesn't make it so. I never called most theists deistic. I said that most believers aren't stupid enough to believe God is a literal man hanging out in the sky. That is Tennessee Bible College bullshit and you know it.
>if they were, there wouldn't be any problems
Cut the self-righteous horseshit. Communist states are atheistic and they are QUITE capable of committing atrocities. In the French revolution, the ring leaders pushed for a quasi-atheistic enlightenment cult revolving around the worship of reason, not so unlike the nu-atheists of today. Do you believe we call it "The Reign of Terror" because the theists were chopping off heads en masse?
>inb4 typical insults about believing in God
Before you try to turn me into a strawman, I believe in an impersonal God. I do not belong to any church or subscribe to any specific dogma, although I respect those that do.

>>22933984
>Perhaps low-IQ Bible belt protestants believe deity is a literal dude hanging out in the sky
This LARP is so out of hand that you really think the average Christian is meditating on Aquinas. You're totally disconnected from any real life religiosity.

>>22935940
>DEH GOMMIES
That has nothing to do with anything. There's an enormous difference between intelligent design and assuredly claiming with absolute belief that a particular mythology is reality and we'll stone you if you eat shrimp.

>>22935956
>found the American with bible-thumping parents
Your hatred for your father will not make your early life experiences representative of all or even most believers. The dumbest people believe the dumbest things. That is true now and it was true in history. The Egyptian priest class believed that their gods were impersonal forces of nature, while the peasants believed Tahuti was literally out wandering the earth. Nothing has changed.
>but here's the thing
If you removed all religion, those same stupid people would just believe in other absurdities (most likely political). A person with reasoning ability and an appreciation for allegory and myth does not believe God is a man in the sky, period.

>>22935965
>we'll stone you if you eat shrimp
They'd also kill you for charging someone interest on a loan, depending on where you were in the world. Do you believe the ancient Japanese didn't kill people over nonsense infractions? Times were different back then. Not just religiously, but politically, as well as morally. You hyperfocus on ancient religion being backward but neglect to mention any other part of ancient life. Convenient. It's almost like you're trying to attack something that's a lot bigger than you can fathom.
>Here's the thing
In 50,000 years, if humans still exist, they will believe in some for of divinity. You are fighting a losing battle.

>>22935972
>A person with reasoning ability and an appreciation for allegory and myth
You're not describing the religious.

>>22935995
Not the ones that you know. Stop assuming everyone is an idiot. You're not as smart as you think and the average person isn't as stupid. Adjust your ego.

>>22935995
>christians actually read the bible as amusing fables of morality and not an account of history
The fucking lengths these faggots go to because they're afraid of hat memes. >christians don't even believe in God, bro!

>>22936002
If you consider the Bible mythology, you're not a Christian. This is pants-on-head retarded. I guess I'm a pagan because Thor is strong and that's cool and admirable I guess. Just please don't call me a fedora. I swear I'm not an atheist!

>>22936009
>CHRISTIANS DONT BELIEVE IN GOD
Behold the nu-atheist with his mighty strawman. They do believe in God. Some believe God is an omnipresent consciousness with a plan with for the universe, some believe God is a metaphysical analogue for qualia, some believe God is the totality of all realities, some believe God is Jesus Christ, an avatar if the Most High, some believe that God is literally a dude hanging out in the sky. And that's just a tiny set of examples for CHRISTIAN belief. There are many more, not even counting all the non-abrahamic belief systems.
>You are not as smart as you think
Take the fedora off and repeat that as many times as it takes for it to sink in.

>>22936019
>YOU HAVE TO LITERALLY BELIEVE GOD IS A DUDE IN THE SKY TO BE A CHRISTIAN
So you are the one making the rules these days, huh? You just committed the no-true-scottsman fallacy for a group that you don't even belong to. Fuck off to plebbit.

>>22933369
>atheists are titans of intellect
>[but expect you to be impressed they don't believe in Santa]
>atheists stand for free-thinking
>[but demand you adhere to Scientism]
>atheists are champions of reason
>[but have strong opinions about things of which they're uneducated]
>atheists are anti-dogmatic
>[but insist you interpret scripture only according to their ideas of it]
Atheism is an intelligence LARP that retards indoctrinate themselves into. Being an atheist is ridiculously easy; their main weak point is their unearned pride and if you poke at their (entirely self-perceived) intelligence they become reactive and break down. Reminder that the legacy of New Atheism is pic-related: homosexual rape/cuck furry fetish cartoons.

>>22935056
Fedora tippers will never accept that because they wholeheartedly bought into a ideological fad (ironic) in order to project their supposed intellect (stupid).

>>22932936
>But he has no real contributions in science
Other than the the concept of a "meme" which has such incredible importance that it has penetrated all of society and is one of the most commonly used word both in popular culture and in scientific circles?

>>22933984
>God as some sort of cosmic intellect that has personified himself
You mean... as a Heavenly Father? Don't try to downplay this, the vast majority of Christians use the language of "Heavenly Father", which is literally a sky daddy. It's not the fault of atheists that religious people embody the most ridiculous caricatures of themselves.

>>22936030
>>22936034
m8 religions are very specific perceptions of reality. You just sound like a newage faggot.

>>22936061
>SHE'S ONLY 19-23 YOU SICK FUCK

>>22936019
>>22936009
These dudes really be thinking that if you are a Christian you have to believe in a castle above the clouds where a bearded man lives

>>22936176
Do Christians believe in a Heavenly Father?

>>22936176
>God is whatever we define him as
What could go wrong....

>>22935940
You are retarded for thinking that atheism is an ideology. And you haven't answered why majority of ay religious group take them literally rather than study tge allegorical nature.

>>22934922
>By every account, even the direst atheist, the universe appears to have been created masterfully by an intelligent and considerate entity
How are you even making this claim? What other universe have you seen to be able to compare ours to?

Religiontards as always can't understand philosophy. The minute you turn to Deism and admit that your religious stories were allegorical in nature, Your religious system and its rules lose meaning, that is why people insist on it being in a literal sesne. That is also the reason Peterson has to walk his thin line of sophistry.

I was a nice, intelligent, shy, mathematically capable young reader of 11 years of age when I first encountered The God Delusion. Within a few months, I had become a debating type, enamoured with fiery rhetoric and trying to prove myself right.

Ironically, this developed into a fascination with philosophy and religion, and by the age of 18 I had become a mystic.

I often wonder what might have happened if I had never encountered this incendiary book. Would I have remained a studious and imaginative person who liked non-fiction and fantasy books? Would I have been an asset to my community instead of a recluse obsessed with discovering the true nature of reality?

I like to think that it was just a natural event in my life, something which, because of the impending onset of puberty, was merely the trigger that caused or coincided with a hormone rush that ended up changing my life. I like to think there were no timelines where I ended up as a boring NPC. But I do wonder.

I think I have to thank Dr. Dawkins for this new revelation, that philosophy was a necessary part of life. After all, as a scientist, he probably thought himself aloof of philosophy as well until some straw came to break the camel's back for him.

>>22933170
When in crises of faith, pray for guidance.

>>22932936
The Selfish Gene is actually pretty groundbreaking.

>>22932747
There was a time that I would make fun of people who read these kind of books but I believe a lot of people here are fragile enough in their convictions that they would benefit from reading this.

>>22936457
You misunderstand religion pretty fundamentally, you're still looking at it scientifically, lol.

>>22935323
They shouldn’t be

>>22936506
Then tell me what it is, or how I am wrong?

>>22933984
To be fair, Christ is kind of a literal dude hanging out in the “sky” although God the Father is not

>>22935586
Except whenever we post anything about metaphysics, epistemology and ethics that is sourced from pagan and Christian philosophy, all of the responses are just vituperation and incredulity with no attempt at comprehending and addressing the arguments whatsoever.

>>22936009
Why do you assume that literal and allegorical exegeses are antithetical and not complementary lmao?

>>22936179
The Heavenly Father is not a man, His fatherhood is a description of His relationship to humanity. If He was a man then there would have been no point to Jesus. The Holy Spirit is also not a man

>>22936517
Religion is it's own science. It's an understanding of reality from the point of view of an individual's experience of himself and his relationship to others and nature. Science is an understanding of reality from the dissection of nature. Somebody who was religious in the past had a vastly different experience of living than we did, and therefore would be getting a "deeper" (more relevant) message compared to us.
What you're describing in your post is modern/scientifically minded people trying to make sense of religious texts. It's very difficult. People thought very differently back then. It was a different way of life. You are probably envisioning just a superstitious person, while I am saying that their way of thinking (and therefore perceiving) the world is so different than ours that you can't imagine it yet.
I'm not saying it's better, but things have changed a lot since back then.

>>22936457
Deism is a cop out that no intelligent person believes in. Peterson is a fool who thinks that gesturing towards God will grant him conservative bona fides but that refusing to commit his life to God for esoteric reasons will grant him intellectual bona fides. As a result he is left with neither

>>22936100
Anon... are you that exceptionally retarded that "Heavenly" means sky lmao?

God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth. (John 4:24)
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. (2 Corinthians 3:17)
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen. (1 Timothy 1:17)
In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen. (1 Timothy 6:13-16)
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. (Colossians 1:15)
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. (Romans 1:20-23)

>>22936534
>Deism is a cop out that no intelligent person believes in
As opposed to believing God literally interacted with people and was reason for creation a few thousand years ago?

>>22936532
So, it is more spiritual in nature. Then people wouldn't be afraid of readily admitting it if that was the case.

>>22936544
And what's so irrational about God's interacting with people? I assume you have some coherent metaphysical issue with the premiss, as opposed to just seething about supernatural occurances.

>>22936556
>ust seething about supernatural occurances.
Convenient of you to label any criticism as seethe. It is only natural for people to ask evidence for any extraordinary claim.

>>22936540
>Anon... are you that exceptionally retarded that "Heavenly" means sky lmao?
Are you that dishonest that you are going to claim that the "Heavens" has no association with the sky?

>>22936540
Ah, how predictable. The religious can't defend how insane their world view is so they just deny the definition of words.

>>22936633
>>22936636
>the term heaven is commonly associated with the sky because there are no ways to describe an omnipresent, incomposite, bodiless being without inevitably utilizing spatial connotations
>actual Biblical citations describing God as invisible, eternal and immortal don't count
Atheists really are fucking retarded lmao

>>22935586
only ad hominems because you have no other arguments left.

>>22933984
What percentage of the bible do you have to reinterpret because its straightforwardly insane? What percentage do you just ignore? And what criteria do you take to do that?

>>22932747

Really basic stuff which shouldn't be new to anyone. Most of this should have occurred to you independently before age 20

>>22932747
Nice bait, but it's a bit old.

>>22936642
Mystic here. Heaven is the sky. On the New Moon especially, this is a salient notion

>>22936636
>fedora tippers always go after the low hanging fruit of literalists
>when backed into a corner they make appeals to literalism
Are they all autists?

>>22936642
>One of the Trinity is literally "The Father"
>He lives in heaven which is represented as in the sky
Yep, Sky Daddy. Seethe more but it's your religion that uses these words.

>>22936694
If it's allegorical, it isn't real. So, what exactly is your point?

>>22936694
>Christians call one of their Gods "The Father"
>He lives in heaven which is represented as the sky
Not my fault religious people LITERALLY use these words for their Sky Daddy.

>>22936694

You pretend as if that isn't most Christians, or as if there is an intellectually defensible version of it. Maybe there is a version which impresses *you*.

>>22936704
>>22936705
You adopted atheism in order to seem more intelligent but become a laughingstock whenever you choose to sperg around people who actually know what they're talking about. The bible wasn't written last year you absolute retards. Expecting it to use language in the same way you're using it on 4chan betrays you're idiots who confuse being strongly opinionated with being knowledgeable.

>>22936714
>no you
Every time. See >>22933021

>>22936723
>Bu-but, whatever the Bible says is old and through translation so you can't take anything it says seriously
kek, the absolute state of the modern theist. So we can't use the words in English Bibles, are you going to pretend it isn't the overwhelming majority of Christians who believe in "The Heavenly Father" in the terms I have outlined? Christianity exists as it is believed in by it's adherents, and the overwhelming belief is in a "Heavenly Father" (Sky Daddy) which is also backed up in the literal words of the Bible. Your little shtick is pathetic and ineffective.

>>22936723
>ad hominem
>god only exists allegorically
always the same

>>22936729
You could update Heavenly Father literally-autistically without sympathy as Sky-Daddy
Or you could update Heavenly Father in a cool and mysterious way with sympathy as Creator from Beyond.

It's up to you. I like my interpretations to be as groovy as I can make them because I like to steelman everything I read. It's more stimulating. Try it out :)

>>22936736
>God is really just a Rad Dad from the Plaid dimension
>See? Christianity is hip and cool kiddos
lol

>>22936723
Okay, if you are admitting it's allegorical. What exactly is your problem?

>>22936729
>it isn't the overwhelming majority of Christians who believe in "The Heavenly Father" in the terms I have outlined
I don't presume to know what underpins the faith of the majority of Christians because I'm not a fedora tipper trying to elevate myself above others. Before you resort to "no you" I'll point out you're being characterized according to your reliance on simplistic cliches we've all heard before without realizing that such is more reflective of the level you yourself are on and not those who see value in religious understanding.
>>22936733
>>22936747
>I can't understand the paragraph you posted but I think I understand what an allegory is so I'll write that word again
Lol. Again, the Bible wasn't written last year and if you expect it to convey meaning in the say way as a textbook you're betraying your ignorance.

>>22936179
> is incapable of even understanding simple allusions
Heaven = (good) afterlife. Heavenly is therefore alluding to that, not to actual, physical Heaven
Father = literally created all there is

It's not hard at all man. This kind of reductionist thinking is, sorry to say, the silliest argument ive seen an atheist use to this date

>>22932936
He made some contributions, but they are overshadowed by the God debate. I agree with the rest of your post though, it is a low hanging fruit.

>>22933984
That's true and it's a shame that they go for the strawman all the time, but that's not exclusive to atheism, it's within every debate and aggravated by the internet era. You just have to make a buzz about anything, a bunch of people will complain about it, you take the silliest adversary for likes and repeat. Left/Right debate is like that too.

>low-IQ Bible belt protestants believe deity is a literal dude hanging out in the sky
>most religious people tend to view God as some sort of cosmic intellect that has personified himself
>dude in the sky
>personification of cosmic intellect
How are they so different though? The universe doesn't care about us at all, I can't believe this is still a discussion point.

>>22934064
As an atheist, I just say "God bless you" and stuff like that back to people. You are right, the religious circle is bigger. People may argue over whose religion is the right one, but they stop arguing if you come out as an atheist.

Reminds me of a story of a priest that came to talk to a native american chief about christianity and Jesus, that the chief never heard about before. He spoke very well, told the story, the principles that guide it and so on. The chief then said "you scratch and you are good at scratching, but where you are scratching is not itching". I feel the same way, there is no reason to make up for anything more than what we have.

>>22933170
It's very presumptuous to assume that you have to use spooky CB radio communications to try and independently contact and demand special insights/objectives straight from God. There probably isn't anything that God could come and give you a mystical vision for in your life that you couldn't also discern just from good old introspection.

Even if I were a pagan living in 300 BC Egypt, I wouldn't go demanding "an audience" with gods.

>>22936854
>cliches we've all heard
Hilarious. Whole church congregations reduced to the level of mere rumor according to you. Absolutely hilarious. Walk into a church once in a while and ask people about The Heavenly Father.

>>22936885
So the term "Heavenly Father" is accurate to what Christians believe in? There was no reductionist thinking, merely a straightforward question to which you have begun to be defensive already. Very telling, anon.

>>22936949
>I'm incapable of engaging with religion so I'll sperg to strangers on the internet about how much smarter I am than the average religious person
Fedora tippers are a sad lot.

>>22936995
I always feel sad for religious apologists. Always trying to put lipstick on a pig.

>>22936928
>The universe doesn't care about us at all, I can't believe this is still a discussion point.
t. Neil Dumbasse Retard.

>>22936999
>no you
See >>22933021. Always the go-to of fedora tippers who don't want to admit to themselves they took an intellectual shortcut and ended up filtered.

>There's really a nigger ITT going "God isn't even real, stupid fedora tipers!"
Completely buckbroken.

>>22937024
At least he knows how to spell tipper.

>>22933453
modern """"""science"""""" exists entirely off of ideological creep, the inability for leftists to actually peer review other leftists. it's no surprise that modern science is completely unreproducible. that's not even including trash like psychology which are both fake science fields for women

>>22936704
That doesn't follow at all.

>>22937201
Not that anon, but if it's allegorical it holds metaphoric truths, but then again so does every other religious book or culture, and also fairy tales, Aesop fables, Lord of the Rings... No one praise them and discuss them as if they were true.

>>22937229
It's both literal and allegorical, retard.

>>22937245
You didn't get my point. You can learn good shit from those fables, why believe one of them would be so special over the others.

>>22937261
Because one is literally true, retard.

>>22932747
Dawkins is so shallow, don't even need to read knowing his debate with Lennox.
Funniest things was when his argumentation was:
> christianity is bad, let me elaborate
> religion is bad because some muslims are fanatics
> so christianity is bad

>>22937289
Which one do you mean? Because the fox and the grapes story is very much true, I've seen many cases like it, myself included. I don't base my life around it though.

>>22936702
>>22936705
>>22936729
>>22936736
>>22936949
>>22936951
Fedora tippers in this thread are so retarded they had to shift the goalposts from "Christians believe in a bearded man in the sky!" to some pedantry about how the reverent and exaltory Heavenly Father is identical to the derogatory moniker of "Sky Daddy" to prove... what exactly? This really just such petty, small minded resentment. Really proves atheists are all just pathetic manchildren.

>>22937024
Literally nobody said this.

>>22937383
The idea of a "heavenly father" as both, A. a transcended being and B. the progenitor of mankind, is as equally stupid as a "sky daddy".

There's this hardcore hip hop album I like. These guys live real tough lives you know, and they use religious language sometimes. Heaven and hell and God and the devil.

I find a lot of it very moving, and sometimes I amuse myself by imagining Richard Dawkins, or Harris, or any other such retard, listening to these lyrics about "I don't know what I'm supposed to do - I get on my knees and I pray to you" or whatever, and saying "uhm ackshually it's entirely irrational for you to pray to your made up skydaddy".

At the end of the day, the kind of committed atheist who belligerently argues for their position is driven by a certain pride. There are different flavours of it, but I'm most familiar with the kind of atheist who considers his unbelief to be a mark of his superior intellect. From a position like that, it is no wonder he is incapable of genuinely attempting to see things from a traditional perspective.

>>22937400
The Bible says we are the adopted sons of God, retard.

John 1:12-13

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

1 John 3:1-3

See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.

1 John 3:9-10

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

Romans 8:14-17

For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Romans 8:28-30

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

To become a child of God means to be insufflated with his glory, ie. participate in His activities as an extension of Him. It doesn't mean God literally gave birth to human beings, you retarded insipid faggot.

>>22936854
>>22937383
This is worse than Peterson. You keep dodging the question of whether you think God actually exists or the scripture is allegorical in nature? Answer that if you really want to have an honest discussion.

>>22937449
God is real and the supernatural occurrances described in the Bible are historical (for the most part). That is not incongruent with their also being allegorical, ie. their having been conducted and then recorded by man through the Holy Spirit for the sake of moral instruction. What, you presume the Bible recorded events simply to be a compilation of things God did, as opposed to a tool that inspires man to contemplate higher realities? You're such a fucking retard, holy shit.

>>22936938
Is the presumption that God loves me and would offer me guidance really that bad?

>>22937468
so the bible is literal and allegorical at the same time?
there is no proof of gods or supernatural phenomena whatsoever, so the real part cant be true.

>>22937557
>there is no proof of gods or supernatural phenomena whatsoever
Oh there is plenty, it's just that your epistemological standards are positivist drivel.

>>22937564
in contrast to pure faith and imagination?

>>22937557
there can me multiple meanings (interpretations on different levels) to a single story, what's controversial about that?
For example, a single story can have a both didactic and mystical meaning (on top of being true, too).
There is no proof in mathematical sense but there is substantial evidence for existence of God. Philosophers have arguments for it, theologians have them, there's personal experience of many people [including testimony of Apostles continue via bishops in Catholic Church], and signs such as existence of spiritual/religious needs itself and conscience.

>>22937468
>>22937574
>God is real and the supernatural occurrances described in the Bible are historical
Proof? Also, this form of argument isn't exclusive to Christianity and pretty much every other religion uses the same argument.

>>22937568
God has interacted with innumerable individuals who have left behind testimonies of their colloquys with Him and His wonders. The resurrection of Christ and Paul's conversion are pretty solid historically.

>>22937557
Gubb Mint confiscates magic items you fucking idiot

>>22932747
new atheism sucks, read anti-monotheism

>>22937589
how is relying on cult produced literature any different from relying on faith and imagination

>>22937714
How retarded are you? Nigger tier, or spic tier?

>>22937738
you stupid christlarper, if i were either of those i would be among the most christian demographic groups

>>22937750
Yes but you'd also be an atheist, making you more subhuman than they are.

Hypothetically, what if someone came out with 100% verifiable supernatural powers? Asides from the eastern monks that can already ignite objects and power lightbulbs. I don't think the world would acknowledge them, out of jealousy, inferiority, or sheer stubborness of their held convictions

>>22937764
Why are you pretending to be Christian? Merely to spite atheists?

>>22937792
That's a lot of projection there, christer pajeet; you're the one who vacillates between bleeding heart racial egalitarianism and racial prejudice depending on what is more polemically efficient to utilize against Christians in the moment.

>>22937885
>That's a lot of projection there
indeed, whenever i try to hold you to the terms of your religion you begin fantasizing about what i must be or think instead of answering for yourself

>>22938037
You never make any arguments. You merely indulge in effeminate ebullitions and psychotic animadversions; you are a deranged, mentally unstable schizoid woman. You should be sedated and shot. Until then, dilate.

>>22938074
you are supposed to love thy neighbor, but I suppose teenage neo-nazis raised by video games are unfamiliar with going to church

>>22938096
Yawn. Your arguments are very boring and predictable. Your life must be quite sad and pathetic.

>>22938112
your grave robbery of the Christian religion as a costume to shitpost with should alarm believers as much as it amuses atheists, and the assertion that I must be a BIPOC for not accepting scripture as historical confirms you have nothing behind your "beliefs" other than spite

>>22938137
>um sweetie you can't dismantle all of my arguments and disprove my retarded takes, that's shitposting

>>22937774
Anon...How do you think we have had scientific advancements.

>>22937383
The point is that the "derogatory moniker" is accurate to the belief. "Heavenly Father" is literally Sky Daddy. The only thing you have is coping and seething.

>>22937447
>"NOOO atheists have it all wrong, it's actually...
>Sky Step Daddy"
LOL

>>22938287
Heaven does not literally mean sky, moron. The fact that you subhuman maggots have been reduced to quibbling over irrelevant minutia just demonstrates how untenable your position is that you have to grasp at straws.

>>22938295
I accept your concession. Have fun burning in hell with all the trannies you fucked :)

>In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing, but because I am enlightened by my intelligence.

>>22937738
That's funny because these are the only populations where Christianity is growing.

>In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any actual knowledge, but because I am enlightened by my schizobabble

>>22938374
he doesn't get it, he just uses Christianity as an anti-tranny artillery piece

>>22933984
>well ackshualy, God is...

>>22936544
>God literally interacted with people
Interesting how God apparently stopped actively engaging with humans right when we killed His Son.

>>22938381
I'm certain you have a very holistic understanding of the ethics of the New Testament, pajeet anon.

>>22938397
There've been plenty of miracles since then, including the Christophany that Paul witnessed.

>>22938398
I hope you are trolling. (99% chance you are this being 4chan and all)

>>22933021
unfunny. try harder

>>22938406
Lucubrate an analysis of New Testament ethics and soteriology; I would love to see your nuanced assessment of its teachings.

>>22938398
oh show me where hatred of christians of different racial or ethnic origins is called for, or where hatred of simple or otherwise feeble-minded people is called for, show me anywhere in the gospels that isn't pleading for the most worthless people to become the most exalted by merit of being the most pathetic—and you ought to like pajeets, they take racism to the next level by being even more racist internally to their own kind

>>22938420
Do you think Jesus and Paul would be patting you on the back with this antagonistic evangelistic strategy of calling people who disagree with you trannies and all sorts of racial epithets on the internet?

I think what's happened in the west (assuming you're not trolling) is that Christianity has been co-opted into a political movement of sorts by people who are at best culturally Christian and haven't the slightest clue about what it is they actually believe.

>>22938501
it is the very essence of conservatism to pick up something your nominal opponents have discarded and mistake it for useful—no doubt gen delta conservatives will look back fondly on biologically human transgender people when confronted with chimeras and cyborgs

>>22938459
Loving your fellow man does not entail overlooking their faults lmao. And at the end of the day, your duties to your family and kin are greater than those to the rest of mankind, even if we are meant to give our best to aid all. As St Paul says in Romans 12:18: "If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." As far it is depends on you; sometimes, circumstances compell us to do things in defence of ourselves and our loved ones that would be evil when not conducted to avoid a greater evil. Or was Paul evil when he heeped scorn on the sexually immoral and idolaters and adulterers and male prostitutes and homosexual offenders and thieves and the greedy and drunkards and slanderers and swindlers?

>>22938501
Jesus insulted the Pharisees. These people aren't honest inquirers, they are degenerate polemicists who are a threat to the flock of the Pastor of God, and they are morally vile.

>>22938593
>Loving your fellow man does not entail overlooking their faults lmao.
uh so it's a sin to be dumb and a member of the "wrong" ancestry? you sure that's what yeshua said?

>>22938631
It's a sin when the dumb do not know their place, yes. It shows a lack of humility. For instance, you have gotten annihilated a million times over in debates, yet you never concede: that speaks to your disgusting narcissism and supercilious conceit. You're a vile obstreperous adolescent throwing a hissy fit because God says you shouldn't engage in sodomy.

>>22938648
>you have gotten annihilated a million times over in debates
what exactly have you offered in defense of your religion ITT other than hate speech?

>>22938660
A number of essays explicating the metaphysics of Christianity and the metaphysical foundations of its ethics, as well as assiduous exegesis of Scripture.

Your contribution to discourse has been Humeanism, hysteric indignation, lack of intellectual humility and libtardism.

>>22938678
go wash some feet you faggot larper

>>22937383
Based. The New Atheist movement promised retards they'd be seen as intelligent for attacking religion while encouraging them to do so without any actual understanding and according to the most straw manned conception of it imaginable.

>>22938796
>you thought you were smart for disagreeing with people who think the earth's 5000 years-old?
>actually it is i who am intelligent for agreeing with them
so you are doing the same lazy pot shot as last gen's fedoras lashing out at Bush era Christians... but as others have pointed out go to church and tell the actual Christians their gospel is just an allegory for Platonism with racist characteristics and see what they think

>>22932747
Marx has exceptionally better critiques of religion and theology than any of the fedorists.

>>22938678
Screaming "read Aquinas" is not debating

>>22938825
>so you are doing the same
Holy shit, fedoras really do always resort to "no you" when they're BTFO.

>>22938868
You're being just as obnoxious a faggot as any fedora. Your rhetoric is literally exactly the same.

>>22938874
>NO YOU THO!
Lol

>>22938868
>>22938874
it's the smug know-it-all-ism
i mean just look at this
>essays explicating the metaphysics of Christianity and the metaphysical foundations of its ethics, as well as assiduous exegesis of Scripture
and of course it is all just dogmatic schizobabble anyway, at least you could argue about historical claims like the age of the earth or evolution or biblical criticism whereas a retreat into "metaphysics" is the ultimate admission of guilt that there is no proof regarding anything he pretenses to have expertise in

>>22938351
>Have fun burning in hell with all the trannies you fucked :)
How very loving and forgiving of you to say so

>>22938756
The parable of the vineyard in Matthew 20:1-16 that succeeds Jesus' proclamation in Matthew 19:26 that “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible” shows that many will be saved despite falling short of Jesus' ideal; as Romans 3:22 says, men are justified through faith in Jesus Christ, through faith working through love (Galatians 5:6). For although we are all one body in Christ (Romans 12:5), we are all blessed with different gifts by the Spirit (Romans 12:6; Ephesians 4:7; 1 Corinthians 12:4-11) to fulfill different deeds (Romans 12:6-8; Ephesians 4:11; 1 Corinthians 12:28) as the coordinated organs of the single body of Christ (Romans 12:5; 1 Corinthians 12:14-27). All are called to act with accordance with what God had apportioned them (1 Corinthians 7:17); that is the essence of the parable of the talents (Matthew 25:14-30; Luke 19:12-27), that men are all judged in proportion to their gifts, because the unproductive servant is judged not for producing less than the more gifted slaves, but for failing to consummate the gifts that the God had given him. That is why while it is better and more virtuous to remain celebate, that is something demanded only of those prepared for it (Matthew 19:11-12; 1 Corinthians 7:1-2).

The ultimate telos of Christianity is become humanity's becoming as the Father and the Son and the Spirit are one (John 17:22; 1 John 5:7) through the glory the Word eternally had in the Father (John 17:5), in doing so praising His glory with one mind and one mouth (Romans 15:6), the glory of the Father for Whom we live and die (Romans 14:8), for from Him and through Him and for Him are all things (Romans 11:36); we exist to exalt God and serve Him, for whoever does the least for His brothers and sisters does the same for Christ (Matthew 25:40) and whoever welcomes a child in Christ's Name welcomes Him (Matthew 18:5), for doing good for others is only good insofar as it exalts God, as the anointment at Bethany shows (Matthew 26:6-13). Everything else is derivative of that. It appears your unholistic exegesis has blinded you to that.

So tell me -- how many feet have (You) washed?

>>22938894
>>22938878
It's exactly the same as a fedora saying "uhh read a scientific paper" when asked why God doesn't exist.

>>22938351
>have been reduced to quibbling over irrelevant minutia
KEK You are the one quibbling, I am merely observing the fact that Christcucks literally praise a Sky Daddy

>>22938913
noooo he's an oversky overdaddy

Religion really is doomed.

>>22938909
>B-B-BUT NO YOU!
Lol

>But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going
(Acts 1:6-11)
Jesus literally ascended into the sky

>>22938943
Keep going, you're on your way to a neck beard.

>>22938913
>>22938926
NTA but what you're actually doing is more like dismissing literary criticism based on what you've heard ecelebs say about The Very Hungry Caterpillar (without even reading it).

>>22938943
>you can't compare me to people whose identities were driven by arguing with me we're nothing alike!!!
>>22938958
literary criticism is knowing the Red Sea was the Sea of Reeds before the Septuagint translation; claiming the Heavenly Father is not a Sky Daddy is just pilpul

>>22932747

Hitchin's and Harris seem pretty decent. Dawkins strikes me as a pretentious faggot like Bill Nye for some reason.

>>22938953
>posts man whose jawline exists solely because of his beard while making another "no you"
The lack of self-awareness is truly something to behold. If you fail to respond with nothing other than your 4th or 5th "no you" in a row you have my permission to take the last word.

>>22938979
>literary criticism is knowing the Red Sea was the Sea of Reeds
That's not literary criticism you absolute retard.
Stop regurgitating things you heard from Penn & Teller/Bill Maher's Religulous and actually produce a real response.

>>22939001
i learned that in catholic school; not sure what xwitter user taught you how to christfedora

>>22939022
Sure you did, anon. Too bad you couldn't resist the "no you" fedora tip at the end because, even though you're making shit up to save face, it would have (almost) been a decent comeback.

>>22939046
So it was the Red Sea, and the earth is also 5000 years-old? What's your point, that you're retarded?

>>22939065
>What's your point, that you're retarded?
No, you.

christer apologists aren't sending their best

>>22939093
>christer apologists aren't sending their best

>>22932747
New Atheism was an embarrassing fad. Take the update of Cosmos: they open the "documentary" by lying about Giordano Bruno. They literally turn him into a sacrificial martyr (pretty ironic) for science and ignore that he was a Dominican friar who converted to a radical sect of Calvinism (during the one of the most politically tumultuous periods of the Reformation) and started preaching stuff about Christianity even crazier than the Mormon's and Kolob (for which he was repeatedly warned by religious/political authorities trying to contain various violent uprisings).

They make it seem like Bruno was killed by evil religious authorities for simply saying the Earth isn't the center of the universe complete with animation which shows him posed like Christ flying through the heavens (kek). They start out a supposedly educational program by flat out rewriting history and try to slander religion by creating a martyr complete with superhuman iconography wherein he's posed like Christ on the cross.

>>22939110
killing someone over doctrinal disputes is still batshit

>>22936080
>the concept of a "meme"
You mean a trend? It has existed for a long time, he only gave it amore catchy name, and then it became a big thing thanks to the internet.

>>22939093
Hey shitskin anon, how come you didn't reply to >>22938905?

>>22939158
What was that wall of citations meant to prove or establish?

>have no reason to believe in Hebrew mythology
>YOU'RE SO ONTOLOGICALLY IGNORANT YOU HAVEN'T EVEN READ THE CHURCH FATHERS WHY DO YOU HATE YOUR DAD TRANNY COMMUNST BURN IN HELL TIP YOUR FEDORA ON REDDIT

>>22939129
>ignores main point about making shit up for a supposedly educational series in order to present smears while ironically adopting the narrative and iconography of Christianity
Thanks for demonstrating.

>>22939171
If you can't comprehend an explication of what the Bible teaches, how can you comprehend what the Bible itself says, yet alone have the audacity to think you can lecture Christians on it?

>>22939194
I get what it says, it says trust the plan and praise the three Yahwehs, but what are you saying, what are you responding to? Why should i care that "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible," is that your way of saying you don't have to explain yourself and can just spit out more verses?
>>22939184
Burning people to death for disagreeing with you on dogmatic speculations, ye or nay?

>>22938950
Wow anon! How epic, how based! How does this disprove that God is eternal, incomposite, immaterial, immutable, qualitatively infinite, eminently transcendental and so on, though?

>>22938913
If you by "Sky Daddy", you mean a qualitatively infinite mind that is incomprehensibly incomprehensible, ineffably ineffable and transcendentally transcendental, while being comprehensibly incomprehensible in the eternity, immutability, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenelovence, incompositeness, etc. ie. the activities of Infinity and Being that are engendered by, consequent to and aspects of His essential activity of More-Than-Infinite Beyond-Being, then sure; if you mean a man with a beard in the clouds, then no.

>>22939194
New Atheism attracted the secular equivalent of soul solicitors. Their problem is that instead of becoming educated on the subject they bought into the idea that merely parroting a posture of being strongly opinionated magically makes them intellectually superior. Their problem is that when they run into someone knowledgeable their attempts at condescension, which are rarely more than regurgitating the same tired cliches, come off as moronic and pompous. Hence, fedora tipping.

>>22938905
Christ sounds like a Jewish demon whose spirit destroys one's indigenous gods and forsakes man's own autonomy. He is one body of infernal blackness who obscures one's own capacity for enlightenment.
>>22939158
Tch, you're a bigger shitskin in spirit than him. Go get crucified and eat shit in hell with your beloved Jew.

>>22939220
>it's just an allegory for neoplatonism, the one true god isn't a REAL father reigning over the world from his lofty throne in the heavens, oh and he he doesn't really have a son that gets killed by italian cops either
funny, that sounds a lot like the euhemerist argument your apologists used against what we call greek mythology

>>22939239
>merely parroting a posture of being strongly opinionated magically makes them intellectually superior
yeah christer apologists on 4channel would NEVER do this because they're so based and redpilled on metacarpals and oncological arguments

>>22939240
I don't give a shit what it sounds like to you, pagan kike, I really couldn't care less about what it FEELS LIKE to you. No doubt you FEEL like a woman and it FEELS like there ought to be a vagina where your penis is, and have contacted a Jewish doctor to tell them how you FEEL about it. Sorry to tell you, but if you want to regress back to niggerdom where you live in mudhuts and go OOGA BOOGA at imaginary spirits who rape you if you go live in the woods like a superstitious retard while cowering in your boots when the shaman with the bone in his nose goes ANGALA BOONGALA NIGGA NIGGA BIG DIX NOOT because your FEELINGS told you it FEELS BASED and REDPILLED when you are an uncivilized subhuman savage, then be my guest and go to hell.

And what the fuck is this TCH shit? Have you deluded yourself into thinking that you are some kind of anime character? NANDEMO OWARE DA GOZAIMASU YAMERO NANDE WASHINDEIRU NARUTO NIGGER OOGA BOOGA I'M A REAL WOMAN NO JUTSU!!! Lmao you're a fucking embarrassment for the white race.

>>22939219
>still won't address the point of the post in favor of deflecting
That's not what happened, anon. Did you miss the part about the Reformation going on and open rebellion against political authorities? In context, what Bruno did is equivalent to organizing on behalf of Al Qaeda directly after 9/11 (but instead of getting a ticket to gitmo he was given warnings multiple times). I know your instinct here is to slide about Radical Islam instead of addressing the point that the false dilemma you're presenting is based on a very simplistic understanding of history devoid of context (which demonstrates reality as much more complex than your retarded calculus is capable of computing)--how about you just accept that it was ridiculous for a programme that had the pretense of being education to obfuscate history in order to present a narrative that has been rejected by historians for half a century (i.e. conflict thesis)?

>>22939194
When they're demonstratably filtered they respond with:
>>22939264
>NO YOU
lol, every time.

>>22939273
I'm more of a man than your tranny Jew. Go suck his dick some more on the cross. Damn the Holy Spirit and damn you, Jew worshiping seething trash.

>>22939275
I don't really care about your nuance, you are siding with Italian ISIS here not me

>>22939273
>Europeans were niggers before Yahweh civilized them
Thank you for your input, Rabbi. Go back to the tunnels.

>>22939300
honestly if you read about the tunnel boys and i mean the actual stuff and not the nonsense, they are basically what the early Christians must have been like, they live in catacombs, they think their rabbi was the messiah, they think he is still alive, they obstruct civil authorities, they even elicit the scorn of the Roman centurion, "You guise are from Israel? We don't do that in this country."

>>22939256
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm sorry but this post is just too fucking hilarious.

BAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

My nigger in banana, how the fuck are you this illiterate on Christian theology lmao? The names "Father" and "Son" are utilized by Scripture in a figurative manner, because they are correlative, for each Father must necessarily have a Son, and each Son must necessarily have a Father, just as each Son must necessarily possess the same universal nature as His Father from Whom He inherits it; the names convey that the Father is truly Father, the very exemplar of fatherhood, for He is a Father that has no father of His Own, and the Son is truly Son, the very exemplar of sonhood, for He is a Son that has no son of His Own. The names Father and Son communicate the eternal reality that the Father is unbegotten and the Son is unbegotten, while sharing the same nature and power, the Son's being necessarily, irreducibly and eternally generated by the Father, of Whom He is an extension, through Whom God does all that He does. The Father is eternally completed and actualized in and through the Son; the Holy Spirit is referred to as such because God is Spirit (John 4:24), and His being referred to as Holy and Spirit testifies to His being ontologically equal to the Father and Son, without complicating the familial allegory of human father and son to convey eternal truths about the relations and unity of the persons.

Jesus Christ is both God AND man. He is God Who fully assumed human flesh, perfectly enveloping and penetrating our nature, uniting Himself to the body through the soul. He became man so that we might become gods by becoming the adopted sons of God: He shall pass onto us His glory, His eternal activities of immutability, eternity, incorruptibility and goodness, so that we might become like His glorified body (Philippians 3:21). He died for our sins in our stead as a sacrifial Lamb, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29) and become our Paschal meal (1 Corinthians 5:7) that we consume in the Eucharist, through which our body becomes glorified by contact with His glorified body.

How the fuck are you THIS illiterate on basic Trinitarian theology and Christology HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

You must be LITERALLY nigger tier IQ LMAO

>>22939339
>muh christology
This is basically a lore dump, it isn't anything worth memorizing, let alone evidence for any claims to actual knowledge of some big G God or any god for that matter. It only further proves my point that you are discounting genuine religious sentiment (of a personal, loving and anthropomorphic God) expressed by Christians you dislike (such as BIPOC) in favor of what any clergyman two hundred years ago would have called atheism (i.e. God is just a philosophical principle and guys like Spinoza are ok i guess). You are like some sort of judaism otaku in the way you have train otaku or anime otaku and having this body of trivia you are ready to dish out when questioned doesn't make you anything more than a judaism otaku, a jewtaku perhaps.

>>22939219
You were alleging that I was not following the teachings of Christ because I was mean to a shitskin pajeet to you online and for not behaving like a celebate monk. I demonstrated your position incorrect through holistic exegesis of Scripture and exposed your own superciliousness in the process. And now you have no rebuttal. Because you're a seething retard.

>>22939370
>christianity can be used to justify whatever i want, but especially racial hatred since we can't all be monks or something
ok good luck

>>22939295
>I don't really care about your nuance,
No shit.
>no you
Lol.

if there is love, there is peace. but who can live in peace who has not known love or faith in love?

The fact that there’s atheist vs religion debates on 4chan is proof this place is just Reddit now.

>>22939375
Niggers and spics are objectively less intelligent than whites. You don't have to actively hate them to recognize that reality. But you've exhausted all your cheap gotchas, so what now?

>>22939370
Do you think your racism will carry over to heaven?

>>22939401
they all had to go somewhere

>>22939401
We had the same debates 15 years ago, newfriend.

Why are they like this?

god's real, gg

>>22936439
nta, but all ideologies are religions. They just substitute god for the nation, the state, or some other abstract ideal.

>>22939220
my nigga you sound like a childrens cereal commmercial when you describe your conception of God, Lemony lemon!!!

>>22939439
This is comprehendable but you have to go insane and starve to death if you do

>>22939439
deboonked by graham oppy

>>22939411
>Niggers and spics are objectively less intelligent than whites.
So what does it say that you follow their religion?

>>22939456
He's infinitely infinite you fucking retard

>>22939411
i guess i am pretty smart after all because of my superior>>22939412
-fit jeans but what does that make you?

>>22939396
>you're not allowed to call me a hypocrite because of some meme
ok retard

>>22939360
>it isn't anything worth memorizing
Why, it's only the truth about our God and Saviour, Jesus Christ!

>let alone evidence for any claims to actual knowledge of some big G God or any god for that matter
This is just shifting the fucking goalposts, as always. This is the only thing you pathetic atheist cucks have being doing this entire thread. YOU were making allegations about *Christian belief*, NOT about epistemological inquiry into God's existence. Stop being a Jewish disingenuous rat fuck and be a fucking man.

>It only further proves my point that you are discounting genuine religious sentiment (of a personal, loving and anthropomorphic God)
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

HOLY FUCKING SHIT YOU MONGOLOID

God IS personal and loving YOU FUCKING RETARD. His being transcendental and ineffable and incomprehensible does NOT, I repeat, it does ***NOT*** conflict with His being a Mind engaged in self-contemplation that is all-loving: God produces His Son and His Spirit *out of love*. His eternal Love, unselfish and productive Love, is actualized and exhausted in His generation of the other two persons of the Trinity -- He generates them as part of His eternal act of self-contemplation, for contemplating Himself He contemplates Himself as Perfectly and Infinitely Loving, just as He eternally contemplates Himself as Power, which leads to His actualizing His omnipotence in generating a Son that shares in His nature, Whom He gifts the Spirit to eternally sustain and to eternally anoint Him, leading to their mutually vindicating each other's divinity, just as the Spirit completes the unity of love between God and His Son by rendering it unselfish.

And yes, God IS anthropomorphic, AFTER HE ASSUMED HUMAN FLESH. Because God is incomprehensible to us, He assumed a glorified body so that He may perfect His personal relationship with us. He did it for all the people whose simple minds would not have allowed them to understand Him as an intellectual would. This is a GOOD THING, moron.

>in favor of what any clergyman two hundred years ago would have called atheism (i.e. God is just a philosophical principle and guys like Spinoza are ok i guess)
I am honestly speechless at how ignorant and illiterate you fucking are.

You braindead NIGGER, Christians have been utilizing apophatic language about God since the fucking beginning. St Paul was a Hellenized Jew steeped in both Platonism and Stoicism who unreservedly avowed God's transcendental, incomposite, eternal, incomprehensible nature in simple language that even men not equiped for philosophical colloquys could grasp, as seen in >>22936540.

I honestly try to be charitable really fucking hard, but you are the single most goddamn vanta black gorilla nigger retard I have ever seen. Your ignorance of the subject is exceeded solely of your moronic conceited narcissism. You are proof that persecution for religious belief or lack thereof is just and equitable.

You're a NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER

>>22939530
>gets upset when its pointed out "educational" programme falsified history to service an agenda
>can't address the irony of it taking up a martyr narrative and using religious iconography
>deflects with an oversimplification that isn't even accurate based on the information already presented in the original post
>can't respond when his impulse to sperg about Radical Islamism instead of addressing the analogy made for his benefit
>admits he doesn't deal in nuance thus betraying the simplistic worldview for which he was just called out
>retreats to "no you" like every single fedora does when the conversation rises above their limited understanding rendering them filtered
Lol

>>22939552
it's honestly crazy to me that people don't get that all matter is mind constantly being observed by god, it's so fucking obvious that it makes me wonder if this is not just a test by this same infinite transcendent ground for all things to further his own knowledge of the infinite ground from which springs itself and all things, fucking retards

>>22939442
Your intelligence level cannot grasp anything beyond fhe complexity of a children's commercial, so that makes perfect sense, really.

>>22939597
Yeah it was really convenient for me this time that the ideas presented were on about the same level of complexity, when I tried to understand topology using Cheerios I got nowhere

>>22939284
Yeah, it takes a real MAN to dilate that closed wound open, man. You're such a fucking GigaChad for standing up to the Christian patriarchy and speaking your TRUTH like a real kween.

>>22939601
NTA but you seem like someone who failed to develop a personality and instead go all-in on the fact your family overemphasized your intelligence in order to compensate for lack of social achievements.

>>22939552
>anti-semite
>worships a dead rabbi as master of the universe
don't pour cement in an unventilated tunnel

>>22939614
Truly the psychoanalytical reddit burn of the century

>>22939601
No doubt your cereal shit helped convince that blacks are just as smart as whites, women are le epic and a man can become on too, and we were all monkeys once upon a time, as well. Did it help you dilate your neovagina, too? I can smell it from here.

>>22939587
>christianity is just advaita vedanta
so much for the malabar rites controversy

>>22939625
Your anti-Semitism is just a secularized version of Christian anti-Judaism. You are and always will be a cultural Christian.

>>22939630
transitioning is the holy stigmata of our age, trannycendental theology if you will

>>22939626
We've all met someone like that, anon. Their intention is to flex in order to solicit the perception of others to validate their sense of self (in this case the one thing they think they have going for them). Little do they know it just comes off as desperate.

>>22939638
anti-Judaism predates Christianity, you being a messianic Jew like those tunnel guys is just the kosher iceing on the cake

>>22939633
Why is every single one of your posts just your saying "HURR DURR I AM A RETARD" and then throwing around all your constipated faeces that usually wind up in the river Ganges like it'll stick? You just end up looking like an ape rolling around in his own excrement. You're only owning yourself by playing obtuse with easy to grasp concepts.

>>22939572
you keep dodging the question of whether you support saudi style head removal for religious dissenters so I can only assume the worst, and be thankful we have too much pornography and video games and 4channel for you to behave like your ancestors in the faith

>>22939613
>Only trannies can dislike Abrahamism
Nonsense.

>>22939650
>the world is just god imagining things
enough speculation about me, that's what poos who don't believe in Christ think, are you a poo?

>>22939645
Christianity antedates Judaism anon, it's a cope religion developed centuries after the destruction of the Second Temple to obviate facing the reality Christianity rendered the Old Testament obsolete.

>>22939660
>the old testament is actually Christianity and Judaism is a copy of it
you suck at pilpul, stop embarassing yourself

>>22939658
You are proof that is the case.

>>22939442
KEK

>>22939442
paint blood over thine door, for my sides are going to pass over you

>>22939663
Like always, when confronted with facts and logic, the pagan kike turns to pure seethe and shitting himself in his pants while crying about how God tells him he can't have gay sex or become addicted to cocaine.

Sorry pagan kike, but Judaism is the very product of the remnants of the Pharisees extirpating any and all Second Temple era Hebrew beliefs that reminded them of Christian teachings, including the doctrine of Two Powers in Heaven that conceived of the Wisdom of God as His helpmeet in Creation and sole Mediator between Him and creatures -- obviously, because Christianity dubbed Christ the Word, Wisdom and Power of God, the firstborn of all creation, one and only Son of God, through Whom everything was made that has been made, the image of the invisible God.

Try reading a book for once! Instead of just looking at pictures of sodomy.

>>22939656
>gets upset when its pointed out "educational" programme falsified history to service an agenda
>can't address the irony of it taking up a martyr narrative and using religious iconography
>deflects with an oversimplification that isn't even accurate based on the information already presented in the original post
>can't respond when his impulse to sperg about Radical Islamism instead of addressing the analogy made for his benefit
>admits he doesn't deal in nuance thus betraying the simplistic worldview for which he was just called out
>retreats to "no you" like every single fedora does when the conversation rises above their limited understanding rendering them filtered
With the above behavior explicitly detailed...
>responds with "no you" yet again

I guess one can't expect good faith from a fedora who recoils at the concept.

>>22939680
oh gosh I see... let me rephrase what I said earlier for your clarity and for others:
anti-hebraism predates Christianity, you being a messianic Hebrew like those tunnel guys is just the kosher iceing on the cake

>>22932747
I regret wasting my money on this literal Reddit: The Book. Should have bought Twilight instead.

>>22939664
Work on your pilpul, Shlomo.

>>22939692
The guy we were talking about was executed by the church, do you support clerically adjudicated execution or not? Sorry you are so offended by the idea that you are acting like an American-funded brown person btw

>>22939656
NTA but you definitely deserve to get your eyes gouged out, your fingers cut off, your head scalped, your ears rendered deaf until they are bloody, and to have acid poured down your throat, christer anon, purely for being the most insufferable and obnoxious retard on the board

>>22939696
get the genderswapped Twilight about monstergirls fighting over a boy

>>22939710
>i'm on team schizo
suit yourself, apparently jesus loves martyrs and all I've done is tell you to be nicer christians

>>22939694
Too bad you have nothing in common with anti-Hebraic arguments which were constructed solely to attack Christianity and had nothing to do with Second Temple Judean beliefs, and are just a peddling secularized versions of Christian anti-Semitism :)

>>22939705
It's already been pointed out that what you're doing is a deflecting from the points that were made in order to present a false dilemma that doesn't even bare up to a basic appeal to historical context. Basically, you're unable to meet the criticism that was made so you slide about a tangentially (and barely) related idea you somehow think confirms the bias to which you're predisposed without even realizing your loaded question has already been demonstrated as half-cocked. So again:

>gets upset when its pointed out "educational" programme falsified history to service an agenda
>can't address the irony of it taking up a martyr narrative and using religious iconography
>deflects with an oversimplification that isn't even accurate based on the information already presented in the original post
>can't respond when his impulse to sperg about Radical Islamism instead of addressing the analogy made for his benefit
>admits he doesn't deal in nuance thus betraying the simplistic worldview for which he was just called out
>retreats to "no you" like every single fedora does when the conversation rises above their limited understanding rendering them filtered
With the above behavior explicitly detailed...
>responds with "no you" yet again
>went all-in on Islamism even though it was predicted he would do so

Sad show, retard. Sad show.

>>22939725
>secularized versions of Christian anti-Semitism
can I ask why you think this is clever? i am genuinely curious... you use their books, their names, their prophecies, their theology, their "holy land," the list goes on... why is it so clever to you that "christians invented anti-semitism"?

>>22939743
>recycles greentext as if nothing happened, refuses to address point yet again
a certain austrian writer i am sure you admire said arguing with somebody not too far removed from members of your religion felt like this

>>22939714
>when Stephenie Meyer contributes more to making men less soi than Richard Dawkins
Why is this timeline like this?

>>22939753
>no you are the one not addressing points!
Lol. I did address your point, anon. It's a false dilemma that isn't related to the original post. It's a slide that betrays a lack of knowledge regarding the historical context wherein you confuse a singular fact that isn't being denied as justification to ignore the actual arguments that were made.

I've addressed your point and my problems with it in detail several times now. But still:

>gets upset when its pointed out "educational" programme falsified history to service an agenda
>can't address the irony of it taking up a martyr narrative and using religious iconography
>deflects with an oversimplification that isn't even accurate based on the information already presented in the original post
>can't respond when his impulse to sperg about Radical Islamism instead of addressing the analogy made for his benefit
>admits he doesn't deal in nuance thus betraying the simplistic worldview for which he was just called out
>retreats to "no you" like every single fedora does when the conversation rises above their limited understanding rendering them filtered
With the above behavior explicitly detailed...
>responds with "no you" yet again
>went all-in on Islamism even though it was predicted he would do so
>goes back to "no you" even though his behavior toward such has been exemplified with appeal to his posts

You're a retard who is out of his depth, anon. The lesson you refuse to learn is that fedora tipping is and has always been an intelligence LARP for intellectually lazy midwits.

>>22939745
You think "Dae Old Testament.........WAS FOR LE HEBREWS!?!?!??!" is some profound, insightful takedown, and you think you can attack others on their supposedly not being le fucking clever? It's not being clever, you spiritual nigger and spiritual kike, it's making an honest, objective assesment of the collective consciousness of European civilization, which is inseparable from Christianity. You are not an intellectual honest and curious individual exploring higher transcendental truths, you are deracinated, atomized degenerate modern with no conception of meaningful communal attachment or sense of purpose trying to compensate for the lack of meaning and fulfillment in your life through affectatious posturing about what a healthy concern for one's people and race looks like based on cartoonish Jewish caricatures of it meant to stigmatize it; you have an intellectually bankrupt, performative idea of what being racially conscious is, so you utilize nigger caveman tier "DAE HEBREWS AND LE OLD TESTAMENT HURR DURR" logic -- unfortunately for you, earthly, transient realities such as race as posterior to higher, metaphysical truths and are a reflection of them. The human instinct to bond as part of a community is but a manifestation of man's desire to participate in God's glory and contemplate it for all eternity by becoming an icon of the unity of will, activity and love of the Trinity engendered by the most exalted Father. You literally no arguments beyond "le Jews le started Christianity", you truly are a pathetic worm. You have no genuine commitment to your people or your race -- you do not know self-sacrifice, honour, duty, courage, you are just an insecure subhuman gnat who latches onto white identitarianism as but a means to make yourself feel better about your pathetic failures and what a subhuman excuse for a European you are through association with actually great men. You're sickening infestation, a creation of Jews. You are not the cure, you are the symptom. And you deserve to be exterminated.

>>22939458
How quickly the pajeet goes from loving niggers to hating them, huh? He truly has no principles beyond seething at God for telling him he'll go to hell if he doesn't stop being a sodomite.

>>22939793
I really don't care about what you care about, the documentary probably sucks and new atheist arguments are usually lame, my issue is that you are shilling for religious executioners which is an unbelievably gay waste of free speech

>>22939640
Very clever! Your tranny boyfriend teach you that one? I sure hope he didn't forget to tell you about the HIV.

>>22939803
i am not the one hurling anti-semitic epithets and calling for genocide while following a thoroughly jewish religion and pretending it represents "european consciousness" or something retarded, so not sure why you are trying to accuse me of both racism and being deracinated; it sounds like you yourself are a rogue golem but I don't know the Hebrew commands to recalibrate you

>>22939834
do you know which demographic has both the highest rates of HIV/AIDS and Christian religious adherence?

>>22932747
it's safer to teach god doesn't exist but still in private believe in him. i think its called being an apologist and you bring up better athiest theories than the athiest

>ad hominem
>bible is real because the bible says so
>NO YOU CANT ASK FOR PROOF
So religious arguments haven't changed since 15 years ago. Kind of tiring to see.

>>22939838
Europe as a civilizational entity is a creation of the Carolingians, who conceived of themselves as the Old Testament Hebrews. Europe is the Christian Roman Empire. Keep coping though. I would love to hear what being a "thoroughly Jewish religion" entails -- I sure do hope it's not some perennial moral teachings found in Greco-Roman philosophy like Platonism and Stoicism!

>>22939844
Why do you hate Russians so much, anon?

>>22939859
if you're engaging a debate even if about god you know you're doing a hedonistic thing right. someone who is religious may not even want to join in

>>22939823
>my issue is that you are shilling for religious executioners
That's something you're making up in order to avoid discussion of the actual point that was made you absolute retard.

Again, Bruno isn't a martyr for science. The adoption of this Christian theme is ironic and the fact religious iconography is used unintentionally says more about the power/embeddedness of those aspects of religious expression fedoras like yourself are filtered by. This is an example of what is known in historiography as the "conflict thesis" which has been thoroughly dismissed by historians for over half a century (and heavily criticized before that). Aside, this is similar to how fedoras (due to idiots like Dawkins) regurgitate an idealized version of the scientific enterprise which was put forward over 100 years ago (without realizing it has since been rejected by even the person who put it forward in the first place). Fedoras can't deal with nuance and mistake being strongly opinionated as being knowledgeable.

Bruno was executed during a time of extreme political upheaval. This wasn't due to the cosmology he presented, which is the point of the post which you've continued to ignore, and your slide regarding the naive idea he was killed because he broke with religious teachings is demonstrably simplistic. The analogy you were given is someone openly organizing on behalf of Al Qaeda just after 9/11--even this is relatively moderate given that the United States was not in the middle of decades of civil war while also experiencing invasions from outside powers. The problem with fedoras is that they project "their" 20th century understanding onto history and simplify the past according to their present biases.

In short, you're an idiot who is incapable of having a discussion in good faith and you should remember this the next time you think strangers will be impressed you don't believe in Santa Claus.

>>22939719
>UM YOU CAN'T TORTURE ME TO DEATH
>BECAUSE UM YOU JUST CAN'T OKAY
>IT'S LIKE IMMORAL AND STUFF
Morality doesn't exist without God, so so much for that anon.

>>22939866
>believing in christianity for culture war purposes and pan-racial idpol
>doubling down on pseudo-euhemerism
this really is just atheism with extra steps but you're too angry with western atheists having made elagabalus emperor to come around to it

>>22939898
>he was killed because he broke with religious teachings is demonstrably simplistic
i have said multiple times that is why he was killed you illiterate faggot maybe you should read before walltexting

>>22932776
New atheism is cringe and its intellectually extremely poorly conceived. I can’t even begin to explain why because it’s 4channel and I’m not going to bother.

But please, if you actually think god decision or Sam Harris have written something profound, read more books, start with the Greeks, etc etc.

New atheism is below lgbtq and women’s studies to me. It’s not intellectual. It’s just a fashion. Nothing smart about it.

>>22939910
>YOU ADDRESSED WHAT I SAID!!
Holy shit you're retarded.

>>22939929
tap tap TAP
>>22939129
>killing someone over doctrinal disputes is still batshit
you've never addressed whether or not you approve the death penalty for people who say the wrong version of the apostle's creed (so I assume you DO), and are instead fixated on the poor quality of some documentary

>>22939907
You seem really desperate to obviate talking about metaphysics, epistemology, metaethics, ethics, soteriology, hermeneutics and political theory anon; maybe it's because you keep getting fucking obliterated at each and everyone opportunity due to your being an ignorant and vindictive little shit desperately clutching at whatever straws he can find. Because nothing of what you said was implied anywhere in that post.

>>22939945
>metaphysics, epistemology, metaethics, ethics, soteriology, hermeneutics and political theory
all this because someone called your precious volcano demon a sky daddy

>>22939942
tap tap TAP
>>22939905

>>22939947
So you admit you're a retarded faggot who bit off more than he could chew and I accept your concession.

>>22939948
>since people who diagree with me are "atheists" i can kill them because they don't believe in morality (idk what the ten commandments are anyway never read that far)
>>22939958
>in this moment i am euphoric, not not because of some god...
let the record show, dear lurkers, this is the sort of garbage christer apologists think is impressive in the year of our lawd 2024

>>22939942
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I accept your concession.

>>22939942
>you've never addressed whether or not you approve the death penalty for people who say the wrong version of the apostle's creed
You responded to a different anon, retard. I've specifically argued as to why your characterization of such regarding Bruno is incorrect. I see this point as a false dilemma that has nothing to do with the point that was actually made in the post to which you responded.

See >>22939898. You're so dumb that you complained your point was being addressed. The problem is that you're a filtered retard who is far (FAR) out of his intellectual depth.

>>22940015
>why your characterization of such regarding Bruno is incorrect
He was not executed for disputing theology affirmed by the church? Why was he executed?

>>22940055
See >>22939898. You're a retard.

>>22940117
>he was basically a member of al qaeda
come on now

>>22940145
Not the argument, moron. Again, you're attempting to slide away from the actual points made in order to focus attention on a singular fact as if it proves your entire worldview. The fact Bruno was executed by the church was never denied. The problem is that you're such a total and complete moron that you think me simply acknowledging a fact, that again was never in dispute, cedes to your entire argument.

The historical context of Bruno's execution was raised multiple times and you have been completely unable to respond to this. You admitted you're a disingenuous retard who doesn't care about nuance long ago and even though I've been kind enough to acknowledge your slide, over and over again, you've continued in your failure.

You're an idiot, anon. You have no knowledge concerning religion or science and cannot construct an argument with appeal to history.

>>22940214
you have indeed been remarkably consistent in your refusal to clarify your position on it, and while your sociopathic hostility to criticism of theology can of course be inferred, it is always nice to hear it plainly... perhaps it has been dumb of me to ask several times

>>22939988
>idk what the ten commandments are anyway never read that far
Your inability to comprehend Scripture was already demonstrated >>22938905

>>22940261
Hey, retard. I've been nice enough to directly address your slide multiple times now. The fact you just keep saying I didn't while pretending your simplified straw man hasn't been adequately discussed just goes to show you're too retarded to even be classified as disingenuous--you're simply a filtered idiot too stupid to learn. No wonder you adopted a fedora.

>>22940274
>thou shall not kill means execute whatever non-community members you can get your hands on
that's quite the allegorical reading

>>22940285
>it is a simplified straw man that the church burned a guy to death for heresy, he actually died from organ failure as a result of political turmoil
whatever

>>22940294
>I can't acknowledge the historical context of the execution because it conflicts with the black/white worldview to which I need to adhere in order to not feel like a retard
Lol

>>22940287
The commandments aren't just a list of dos and donts you absolute retard.

>>22940324
they are also a rock with those dos and donts inscribed on it

>>22940318
>>22940324
>just kill them all, the lord will know his own
can you find me a contemporary, living (non-Russian) clergyman with this reading of Christian doctrine, preferably a highly ranked one>>22940324
?

>>22940333
Can you comment on how they fit into the narrative structure of Exodus and how this elucidates the fact they're meant to reflect the ideal realm of the wholly Godly wherein the imperfections of humanity cannot compromise them?
>DEY A LIST OF RULZ THO!
Lol, retard.

>>22937486
The Christian answer (as in the one literally in the Bible) would be that you already have the law and the prophets. In more plain terms, why do you think you are more worthy of direct revelations from God than the guy down the street is?

>>22940342
>I can't acknowledge the historical context of the execution because it conflicts with the black/white worldview to which I need to adhere in order to not feel like a retard
Lol. Starting to understand why fedoras always get confused and have to resort to "no you" in the end? Hint: it has to do with projecting their simplistic level of understanding on to others

>>22940356
>you can and should execute people for disputing theological dogma because it means you are above having a black and white worldview, only stupid people who can't stop projecting empathize with the victims of arbitrary capital punishment in illiberal societies

>>22940351
>laws are idealized
Bro no fucking way

Also the Bible sucks, about halfway through Exodus and struggling hard to keep going. Sorry but hearing God autistically describe what you can and can't do in between long lists of family names is doing nothing for me, though of course if I was schizophrenic it would be fun to find the mathematical patterns in the names or whatever. But I'm just a dude, so I go draw and jerk off

>>22940369
>still can't make an argument that references the historical context of Bruno's execution
>actually asserts it was arbitrary
I honestly wonder if you're capable of understanding just how stupid you really are. FYI: this is why I've indulged your slide for so long.

>>22940388
>fedora plotfag gets filtered by the Bible
Lol

>>22938958
Are you comparing all Christians who believe in The Heavenly Father to some random ecelebs? You are dishonest, anon.

>>22940392
I tried bro I tried, I needed god so I read his book and it sucked

>>22940405
>I'm a retard who can't read good
>>>/tv/

>>22940411
but I read other books instead u fag, sorry through you were going to red pill me on the Bible not just tell me I'm a fat retard for not getting it

>>22939146
No, he defines a meme as an idea which shares many similar traits to a gene, if it is memorable or in some way able to get a foothold in many human minds, it begins to grow and spread and the selection process is similar to that of genes. Don't worry, I know you haven't read a single work by the person you are denigrating though.

>>22939220
Religious nut jobs sure like their word salad, huh? Sky Daddy is actually catchy compared with whatever the hell this comment is.

>>22939439
Which god?

>>22940422
>he's not gandalf bro he's actually the x-est y, the q-est z, the a-est b, he wears the freshest clothes, eats at the chillest restaurants and hangs out with the hottest dudes

>>22940430
Oh shit, if I'd only known. Sky Daddy is out, now he's The Rad Dad from the Plaid Dimension.

>>22940414
No one owes you anything, anon. Learn not to pronounce expectations on others while you're presenting yourself as a retard.

>>22940439
>no one owes you anything
bro youre on a 4chan thread about religion, if you don't wanna answer I could give a shit. If you wanna go lecture people about manners then do something with your life and find a bitch, get her pregnant then you can teach little Johnny about God and manners

>>22940425
I think the Christian one but no one but the schizo who made that proof is ever really gonna understand what he meant imo

>>22940443
>go out of my way to answer to an insincere retard
Google: "pearls before swine." You're welcome.

>>22940417
And some of that describes a trend, while the rest are just assumptions on his part that can't be really proven.
I've read the god delusion, it's nothing more than a series of really long ramblings written by somebody who clearly hated going to church as a kid and now has a vendetta against one religion.
>b-but he criticizes other religions too!
Not nearly as much.
And a lot of stuff in that book is just lies.

>>22940834
The specific idea of a "meme" is, itself, a successful meme as it went on to gain massive appeal and usage. "Trend" obviously was too generic and thus a niche was available for a better word like "meme". It seems clear to me that you are just resentful towards people criticizing your sacred cow.

>>22939439
What the fuck am I looking at?

>>22940955
Goedel's ontological proof.

>>22934686
all science is conjecture especially in biology
you moron

>>22934686
I think Dawkins is nothing special when it comes to religion or philosophy, he isn't a philosopher, not even a non-academic one.
The problem with academic philosophy though is simply that pretty much no one reads it. That is sad but the level on which The God Delusion was written is what people can understand and while it produces a lot of cringe it also got me interested in reading academic philosophy of religion.
Philosophers like Graham Oppy currently have discussions on YouTube channels with 100 subscribers, that's just how uninterested most of the public is in actual philosophy.

When it comes to biology though, I'm not an expert in the field but I watched some older documentaries and read some older books and papers and when The Selfish Gene came out it seemed to be well respected amongst evolutionary biologists and created some fruitful discussion. Dawkins did some actual academic research, he is not just a 'public intellectual', he is a knowledgeable biologist.
I also think his popular evolutionary biology books are good and his Christmas lectures on the topic are peak comfy.

>>22941010
Dawkin's work was descriptive (not predictive). That's why it's easy to mark him as a low grade panderer when it comes to his remarks on things unrelated to biology.

>>22940422
Mentally ill atheists (tautology, atheism is a mental illness) certainly are too retarded, superficial and hyperactive to discuss philosophical subjects deeper than middle school's multiplication tables.

>>22941254
you sound a little euphoric there christlarper

>>22941490
Haha what a limp wristed faggot you are, barking like a bitchy little chihuahua, aggressive yet utterly ineffectual. You still haven't managed to make a single point stick and have been compelled to resort to epic black woman sassy kween clapbacks. Go back to fucking AIDS riddled troons, Dilatehunty.