/lit/ - Literature

>>22922383
If you read about people’s experiences then you’ll find different answers.

I’ve seen people claim it’s their favorite series they’ve ever read. I’ve seen others say it was great. Some people get filtered by the first book and don’t make it to the good parts.

For me, I’m almost done with the first book and I probably like it more than most. I am looking forward to the following books (apparently book 3 is the favorite for some).

I’ve read ASOIAF, Book of the new sun, first law, etc, and Malazan is different for sure. Just being at the start I can already see how Malazan could be capable of becoming the amazing series that I’ve heard so much about, but it’s a big investment to figure that out.

>>22922383
Huh? Wasn’t this called Malakazan?

It's good but dense, both in story structure and prose. The first book isn't very good but it's not so bad you can't get through it, it's just not up to snuff with the rest of them; very similar in my view to Consider Phlebas, a fairly bad introduction to a good series.
If you like deconstructive works that don't necessarily resemble the heroes journey (asoiaf, black company, etc.) it's mightily worth a read. If you're more of a wheel of time/tolkien/sanderson type probably not for you.

/lit/ - Literature

It's god tier. Certainly mogs the ever-living shit out of LOTR.

>>22922383
good until book 10, which i didnt bother finishing, because i stopped caring about make-believe characters who were all the same, and because i realized at some point his openly feminist agenda really broke the immersion, since the men were almost all emotional and crying while the women were all le ebin badass soldiers

apparently book 10 sucks anyways, book 9 was really slow and worked it's way up to the battle at the end, which was epic, but ya pretty slow

I'm reading Gardens of the Moon right now. I normally don't like fantasy but it's pretty great

>>22922383
I spent a lot of time reading/watching people's opinions on it before giving it a go. If you do attempt it my best advice is to accept that you won't know what's going on most of the time and you don't really have to. Things will fall into place eventually. There's this neckbeard on YT called the book guy that has some good videos on it which will help you decide if you want to read it.
I'm about to start book 6 and I fucking love it

>>22922992
If you're enjoying the first one you're in for a reap treat with the next two.
You're probably feeling pretty lost right now though right?

>>22922383
Having only read Gardens and a bit of Deadhouse I can say its worth a try I certainly liked it and have only put off reading more a bit because of Felisin story in book two was honestly disturbing me despite the fact that I read American Psycho and giggle along as I do.

I dont get people who say its a difficult series though like the stuff in book 1 that was "confusing" was so clearly written for you not to understand until later on so it didnt bother me. I liked pretty much all of the cast in Gardens of the Moon except for that crazy doll guy just didnt get the point of him.

More fantasy slop with magical tunnels, dozens of them.

Oh god I stopped reading this around Midnight Tides a few years ago. Would love to get back on this but the lore is so dense that losing momentum really made it difficult for me to reread. Great book tho but I'll be honest the characters feel kinda bland to me yet I'm having a hard time articulating why. Everything else was fantastic tho and I'm still hoping Coltaine('s reincarnation?) gets a comeback on later books.

>>22922383
I'd recommend the wheel of time over this, tbqh. They're both slop but WoT is like THE slop, the slop of slop, the Platonic ideal of overdetailed schlocky fantasy series which all others merely participate in.

>>22922383
I'm reading it right now, currently on the third book. I really like the whole "fellowship" thing it has basically every book. I actually really liked GotM but yeah its a brick to get through. The second book flows way better.

What it lacks in quality it more than makes up for in quantity.

>>22922383
Bounced off it in one book. The author comes across as immensely impressed with himself despite having some extraordinarily dull sensibilities for prose, pacing and light and shadow. Perceived arrogance aside, I found it grotesque, boring and maximalist. People say it gets better but it did nothing to commend itself above either non-fiction's historical intrigues, nor the more elegant imaginings among its supposed peers. I felt like I was wading through overwritten sketches for D&D settings and splat books.

>“‘Children are dying.’ Lull nodded. ‘That’s a succinct summary of humankind, I’d say. Who needs tomes and volumes of history? Children are dying. The injustices of the world hide in those three words.’”
Every character is like this. From the lowliest grunt marine to the 100,000 year old (not a typo) sorcerers. Everyone is an amateur philosopher in most eye-rolling way possible. Malzan takes a very long time to say very little in bland prose. Individual chapters, nevermind the millions of words, are meandering without being interesting. But at least it has super powerful characters and '''worldbuilding'''.

>>22922383
Malazan is post-modern and post-structuralist, meaning it's one of few fantasy works actually written with adults in mind and it's absolutely unbelievable that it was picked up by a publisher.

That said, it's about 30% slop, 30% good up-front, and 30% good after serious investment.

>>22922383
Read the first book and judge for yourself.

>>22923699
>Malazan is post-modern and post-structuralist
Lol it's lowest-common-denominator genreshit made for retards who forgot to grow up

>>22922641
literature
noun

The body of written works of a language, period, or culture.

Imaginative or creative writing, especially of recognized artistic value.

The art or occupation of a literary writer

>>22923714

It is a mile wide and an inch deep. The content is like a 90's Dungeons and Dragons tie in novel simply multiplied by itself. It is bigger, longer, and has more moving parts than a Drizzt or Dragon Lance novel, but none of those pieces represent a departure in quality, instead you have a borderline metastatic reproduction of the familiar and expected over a wider scope.

>>22923529
but there's nothing philosophical about that. it's like old people waxing poetic about something.

>>22922383
Malazan's biggest hurdle is the fact the very first book is a huge filter for most people. It feels like a book from somewhere in the middle of the series that explains nothing and expects you to take it all in strides.

>>22923181
>You're probably feeling pretty lost right now though right?
Not really. I don't expect books to give me all the answers straight away in the beginning. On the contrary, I like it when there are mysteries. The book tells enough that it's possible to follow what happens, and it's quite well done.

I'm currently reading book 9. It's not terrible, but it really isn't worth reading due to how long it is for relatively little payoff.

>>22924386
>The book tells enough that it's possible to follow what happens, and it's quite well done.
Every time some brainlet says they don't understand what was going on in Gardens I want to slap them. Malazan is better than 99% of fantasy, but their autistic obsession with having every little detail about the make believe world spoonfed to them the instant it first comes up like they're a dementia addled invalid or they won't read it is going to eventually ruin the genre.

>>22924490
>is going to eventually ruin the genre
I think it already has. I can't see a series like Malazan being written today. Neither readers nor authors have the capacity for it. Thankfully, there are still older gems left to discover.

>>22924490
>their autistic obsession with having every little detail about the make believe world spoonfed to them the instant it first comes up like they're a dementia addled invalid or they won't read it is going to eventually ruin the genre
Moon references so many things that only make sense upon future readings to the point that you basically have to read it twice just to understand a lot of the dialogue.

>>22923523
>I felt like I was wading through overwritten sketches for D&D settings and splat books.
Agreed. That's also how I feel about China Mieville's books.

>>22924559
Completely false. You should consult a neurologist. Outcome are better the earlier they catch it.

>>22923814
THICC

>>22924490
>Malazan is better than 99% of fantasy
But worse than 100% of good/worth reading fantasy.

>>22923814
While this was also my experience. I liked that aspect. It added mystery and rewarded the attentive reader.
What I disliked about the first book, is that it really is a very barebones story. It adds way to many characters and as a result spends way to little time in characterizing them. I must have spent hours reading this book, but only vaguely remember Panan, the Adjunct, Kruppe, Whiskeyjack and the Sephiroth knock-off. Only the Adjunct and Panan and maybe Tattersail develop in a meaningful way, I legit almost forgot all about Wiskeyjack.
The book just felt like a slog. When I was done I was not at all looking forward to the next one. I read some scifi classics instead and went through these books thrice as fast, while being twice as enjoyable, and infinitely more poignant.
After gardens of the moon I didn't feel like I learned something about people and how we live. I only learned something about this world this guy pulled out of his ass.

>>22922383
I haven't read them for a very long time so can't really remember well. The writing is a bit difficult but it ended up being unironically epic with a huge world. I'd recommend it, I'm planning on re-reading them at some point, I have a signed copy of The Crippled God.

>>22923427
Wheel of time is awful. Dropped it at book 4 all the characters are uninteresting. Every single character in malazan is more interesting than even the best Wheel of time has to offer. Dosent help that the first 3 books repeat the same story structure, like good lord imagine if there was two lotr sequels that were also about bringing a ring to a volcano fucking hell.

>>22922383
It's great, as the anons below put it, it's not as hard as you might have heard. It's dense and worth it.
>>22924386
>>22924490

Currently on book 3, love almost everything about it. Mostly how it's more like simple delivery of an interesting story with excellent prose. Don't be afraid to reread paragraphs. It was the same for me the first time I read Cormac Mccarthy, had to reread the first page or some paragraphs 2-3 times, but soon enough I'd adjusted to the rhythm. Slowed down appropriately and received the info and meaning(s) in every sentence. It's just damn good writing.
Here's my main argument for recommendation: after taking a break from the book, for a few days, or even weeks to read another smaller book, coming back I instantly get reacquainted with the story. The characters, their dynamics, the events, the mood are right there because they were fascinating as I read them and were then proven memorable.

Other than that it's full of humanity, maturity, empathy, mystery and cool-ass, epic shit.
Some "spoilers" of what the Malazan series includes (by first quarter of book 3 alone). I personally don't feel a good series can be spoiled by stuff like this. I'll try some Maro obfuscation.

>a hag
>a puppet cunt
>a thicc sorceress
>elder gods
>two obvious and likeable ttrpg adventure parties
>many obvious and awesome max leveled characters from the authors' earlier campaigns
>FIVE FUCKING DRAGONS
>urban incendiary terrorism
>shapeshifters
>teen aristocratic tittays
>neanderthal undead
>blood for the blood god
>non-elder gods
>the even greater khan
>tarot that works
>super orcs
>a cute skeletal wave
>an absolute fucking psychopath who hates flying monkeys
>flying monkeys
>many lynchian "lodges", or w40k-like "webways" carved out of chaos
>a finnest (just go with it)
>more powerful shapeshifters
>blood meridian levels of war horror
>nobility cullings
>three boar worshippers whose brass balls foreshadow their development
>weaponized demons
>a fat fuck that's way more prolific than grrm

I could write way more. Read the series. It's great.

>>22922383
the shilling got to me I started threen weeks ago after black company and I like it, anomander rex is literally me

>https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1GLRmiaFcxe_cGc93ckE5UItRq5rYsfeU0BhvqcaNq9E/edit#slide=id.g13b05873a99_22_0
>https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1GLRmiaFcxe_cGc93ckE5UItRq5rYsfeU0BhvqcaNq9E/edit#slide=id.g13b05873a99_22_0
>https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1GLRmiaFcxe_cGc93ckE5UItRq5rYsfeU0BhvqcaNq9E/edit#slide=id.g13b05873a99_22_0
powerpoint slide readalong to help with gardens of moon by the fans - genuinely helpful

>>22923714
Hope you hold this exact same stance about Lord of the Rings aswell

>>22924808
>After gardens of the moon I didn't feel like I learned something about people and how we live. I only learned something about this world this guy pulled out of his ass.

The Felisin character in book two will make you change your mind about this.

>>22924646
In the first book they are casually throwing around words like "Jaghut", "T'lan Imass", "Azath", "Tiste Andii", and "Starvald Demelain" without explaining what any of those words mean. I literally just binged the entire series this year so it's still on my mind. It wasn't until the second book that I started to understand what was going on.

I feel like the large scale hurts the series because it prevents characters from getting any meaningful development. Aside from Crokus, Heboric and a few others nearly every character is the same at the end of the series as they are at the beginning.

>>22923067
How the hell do you get away with being as obtuse as Erikson is with plot and exposition as he is in Malazan? How did he get away with it? It's not like his prose is any good. How did he convince people to trust him for so long until it "became good"

>>22925883
Big=Good I guess.

>>22925883
To be honest I'm finishing book 9 right now and so far the payoff hasn't been worth it. I enjoyed the chapters with Tehol and Bugg but overall it strikes me as a pretty mediocre series. I wish I'd read Xeelee instead.

>>22925889
So if I were to hypothetically do the same thing, write some big, sprawling huge sci-fi/fantasy book just like GOTM, I would get agents wanting to publish me?

It's almost like you write so much or so big that you reach a point where agents are like "wait, you ACTUALLY did that?" and then they publish you, almost like your commitment is the product, acting as a commodity or a neat little trinket for their marketing.

>>22925931
>So if I were to hypothetically do the same thing, write some big, sprawling huge sci-fi/fantasy book just like GOTM, I would get agents wanting to publish me?

That's the only explanation for its success, in my opinion. The prose, characters, and themes are nothing special, in my opinion. Even Asoiaf is better, although at least Malazan has an ending.

>>22925937
Wow, I'm looking right now and he only had a couple novellas published with some indie pubs and one litfic book published before GOTM.

Imagine if you did what he did but made it marginally better, you'd be considered a living god.

>>22925710
>without explaining what any of those words mean
You can tell a lot simply by the context and how the characters use those words. Seriously, this isn't at a level I'd even call mysterious yet.

>>22925883
>It's not like his prose is any good.
His prose is god tier. Name one (1) fantasy series that does better.

>>22923523
>I felt like I was wading through overwritten sketches for D&D settings and splat books.
nailed it

>>22926121
Wolfe, obviously, but even GRRM is better than Erikson.

Does it bother anyone else how often characters come back from the dead on this series? It got to the point where I just assumed any character who died would come back, and usually they did.

Does it bother anyone else how often characters come back from the dead in this series? It got to the point where I just assumed any character who died would come back, and usually they did.

>>22926283
Not really. There are usually severe consequences for the character or world when people come back to life, and a lot of what people consider "coming back to life" is reincarnation rather than resurrection.

>>22926480
Several characters including Whiskeyjack and the Bridge Burders come back stronger after they die than they were before.

I started it because I heard it inspired Bakker but Bakker is so much better that I just reread Bakker instead. Read Bakker. Bakker is KING. Bakker is life! Bakker is our most holy emperor and warrior prophet!

>>22926488
Do you know what
>usually
Means?
Also, except for one guy, that group doesn't even get revived.

>>22926121
Post a passage that contains good prose.

Does Malazan moggs Sanderson?

>>22926664
Any will do. Open page one and start from line one.

>>22926685
This reads like total shit though.

>>22924808
>I legit almost forgot all about Wiskeyjack.

>>22926575
>usually
I'd say that a majority of the main characters who die either come back from the dead or become ascendants.
>Also, except for one guy, that group doesn't even get revived.
True, they don't get revived, they become gods, which is arguably better.

>>22926872
Why are you crying? He's only in a few of the books and barely gets any characterization.

>>22926121
That's not a high bar to cross when they're all dogshit

>>22926861
Filtered

>>22927766
"Filtered" only applies if a book has complex themes or a challenging prose. This series has neither.

>>22927810
You appear deeply challenged though

>>22927848
I'm just disappointed because I kept expecting the books to get better and they never did. Total waste of time.

>>22922383
What makes it special?

Adulthood is coming to terms with the fact that the modern fantasy genre doesn't get any better than Game of Thrones
pretty much everything else feels more like a novelisation of a video game than an actual novel

>>22928234
It's big.

>>22925001
Should've stuck it out, Rand has this neat corruption-regeneration character arc that's peak slopkino.

>>22926861

>>22926861
it's honestly 6.5/10 prose. totally serviceable, but not exemplary in any way

>>22924447
I think this is the straw that broke the dromedary's back that made me take off this off my suggested readings list. Your assistants were >>22923793 and >>22923529.
Very effective in souring these books. I think I have now gotten the larger theory of what they are (shallow but expansive trad fantasy fare, with a fresh shade (but not new color) of paint).

>>22925001
In book 4 a character mentions a global war in the distant past between the primordial giants Mosk, Merk and Elsbet, this boomer fuck really threw a cold war reference in his fantasy series thinking he was clever

>>22925883
The first time I read it I baseded out over the constant references between books because not many books I'd read managed to have any scale to their worlds with the different parts of the world actually interacting with each other. So that's a feature to some people, but doesn't explain how an editor agreed to pick up the first book. Erikson is an academic archaeologist or something so maybe he had connections.

I read this series over the school year when I was 13 and I thought it made me hard and badass, lmao. I would think to myself,
>Look at all these innocent people. They can't imagine real terror, like the accounts of the Tenescowri cannibal peasant crusade in the Pannion Domin war...
Embarrassing to think about desu

>>22928778
>6.5/10 prose
Wtf have you been reading where that is above average?

>>22925721
Shouldve fixed that with more books desu

>>22924447
because malazan doesn't really provided a handy "everything gets resolved" conclusion

>>22925710
But there is a glossary, where every single one of them is explained.

>>22929395
>hey guys i have a great idea how to build our new empire
>lets capture the nearby city and enslave all its people BUT WAIT THERE IS A TWIST we dont give them anything to eat
>so all those starving and dieing peasants will then unleashed on the next city, and hopefully take it SOMEHOW, then half the people there will be eaten and the other half added to our ever growing cannibal hordes, who still dont get any other food
>so if ever a city resists and we cant break it with our normal siege weaponry we drive the millions of still starving half mad people against the walls until they break in (because thats how siege warfare works, right?)
This was unironically the point where i closed the book and immediately switched to the third one. This was so dumb that suspension of disbelief did not work anymore