/lit/ - Literature

So school should teach you things that most high drop outs manage without issue?

>>22905447
I don't care, really. The masses are dumb and getting dumber every day, and compulsory public education is crap.

>>22905447
>Schools should be teaching us how to pay taxes and get a job
Parents should be teaching that to their children; Westerners just don't want to raise their offspring.

>>22905447
This is discussed in the book Great Conversations by Hutchins. John Dewey and his disciples have been a disaster for the human race. Education should seek to educate the soul and to make the populace able to govern themselves as we all should be entitled to do in a well running democracy of educated people. Vocational training isn’t actual education for anything.

>>22905452
Kids should be allowed to pick their vocation and learn it in school he is saying and so that is why every American 12 yr old should be allowed to become a football player, cowboy or astronaut

>>22905485
We would be over run with Presidents and Firemen.

>teach you to file taxes
>when taxes are done entirely by paying a small fee on turbotax or some equivalent service
>teach you how to get a job
>without first giving you any marketable skills

I'm glad the idiots that make these claims aren't the policy makers (yet). People whine and cry about being forced to do pre-calculus in high school, but then shit all over themselves during the first semester of their engineering degree. Public education is dogshit, but it's better than this idea since kids are at least exposed to things (even if they don't care about the majority of it).

>>22905447
What do you do for a living?

>>22905504
I do not like schooling and I don’t think it should be compulsory for everyone. I would’ve been better off self teaching myself. Anything truly important I could easily teach myself or come to know over time just by virtue of its apparent usefulness or necessity to life’s fullest advancement. School is more of a round up pen for delinquents and halfwits.

>>22905447
Schools should tech (optionally) Melville and Cervantes.

>>22905463
They are getting dumber. All of us are. It makes me want to die.

>>22905447
This claim mostly comes from middle school students looking for plausible reasons to blow off work or people who formulated it as such in middle school and never critically revisited it after that. I like to think that if they actually understood this as an astroturfed social meme to demolish the last gasping fragments of a universal classical education in favor of better goycattle browbeating they‘d instantly realize just how profoundly evil what they‘re saying is, but that‘s probably too optimistic.

>>22905447
They already have retard IT schools and programs for this purpose, problem is all schools are for retards now

Why is the American system so retarded that you actually have to calculate your own taxes or have to find and accountant to do it?

>>22905447
It's a sentiment that would be wrong in an ideal world but makes sense in the world we actually live in.

>>22905447
>What do you think of this (increasingly common?) sentiment?
I don't think it is increasingly common. In America at least a lot of people have recognised that the education system is broken and exists to indoctrinate kids (and destroy white children's self-esteem by surrounding them with rowdy violent niggers and allowing them to terrorise them without consequence). More and more of them are looking to send their kids to private schools that hold their values and impart a more "classical" education on kids. It's certainly an estraz version, but it's definitely more valuable than common core and ritualised shame.

>>22905568
But private schools exist to filter out the dumbfucks like the ones mentioned in the OP

>>22905447
They're trying to get you to think critically while expanding your knowledge of the culture you're a part of which is supposed to give you context for the world you're in. A tax lesson is going to be ignored like all the other shit you ignored.

>>22905568
Oh yeah, I forgot we have to be unconditionally nice to everyone for some god knows what ever reason. Being an optometrist is just as good as being a cop or realtor.

The wood paneling! Tell them about the wood paneling! It is the best feature!

>>22905447
The purpose of school should be to educate the electorate so that they can elect competent officials into government offices and have a firm understanding of their own rights and liberties within the nation-state. Public school shouldn't be a place to prepare oneself for a career but a place to prepare oneself to be a citizen. Immigrants in the US (and other countries) have to take an exam to be able to vote, the same exam should be given to all citizens. The exam should include things like history, government, law, ethics, but also things like cognitive biases, statistics and probability. Public schooling should terminate at the point of its completion. Thereafter, the student can focus their energies on career-specific knowledge, eliminating the usual apathy of having to learn things one has no interest in and/or which provide no advancement toward their chosen career.

>>22905447
It's true for a reasonably-sized segment of the population, who aren't capable of learning trigonometry or comprehending Shakespeare, even if they had the interest, which they don't.

>>22905482
The populace aren't capable of governing themselves and shouldn't be asked to.

>>22905551
Progressive taxation mixed in with a bunch of write-offs and deductions to please lobbyists. There have been calls to simplify the tax system and introduce a flat (mostly by libertarian-leaning Republicans like Rand Paul) but people get butthurt since that'd mean the tax burden would be heavier on the lower classes (as if it isn't already lol).

I do agree that schools should teach skills like that but at the same time I think that would mean more work rather than less
For example I think everyone should have to take Calculus classes

>>22905482
>Vocational training isn’t actual education for anything.
Tell me you have rich parents without telling me.

>>22905447
Schools have two options: teach children the things you need to understand reality and art (the Bible, the Greeks, literature, mathematics, ancient history, the sciences, etc), or to teach children the things they need to survive in a very narrow but productive life (trades, paying taxes, laws and regulations, driving vehicles, raising children, etc). The former is better since it equips children with the tools to pursue the latter themselves, but it's less reliably well-taught, especially in public schools. They also aren't mutually exclusive.

The trouble is that schools favour progressive educations now, teaching only highly edited versions of local modern history and literature. Thankfully mathematics is mostly immune, but the sciences have been dumbed down and turned to focus on their own internal history so try and even out the results across sexes. Parents who send their children to progressive public schools are poisoning their children.

>>22905616
>For example I think everyone should have to take Calculus classes
Why? Calculus seems only relevant for a small subset of careers (STEM) and has little utility outside of them. It would be far more useful to learn something like statistics or probability to avoid falling for common fallacies employed by politicians. An understanding of the law of large numbers and regression to the mean is arguably more useful than the entirety of differential and integral calculus.

>>22905447
It's a cope by people who fail in school. If they were learning about taxation and insurance or whatever, they would fail just as much. Education isn't really about educating anyone necessarily, it has other uses.

>>22905463
>>22905535
I'm all for banning public education and even education as a whole but I'm sure neither of you are actually doing anything about the problem.

>>22905447
Yes, of course, but they will not because the Board of Education which decided curriculum in American schools had JP Morgan and Rockefeller on it. In other words, you are not taught about money because you are not meant to have any significant amount of it in your entire life. This is also why financial language is convoluted pseudobabble--language acts as a natural barrier to plebs (same with similar things like dryness or volume--these things bore plebs) and allow the financial elite to do much of what they like and say much of what they need to say in the open. The average man will never know enough or pay enough attention to know what's going on, and if he ever does, it is generally too late. Social media has allowed for mass "clue-ins" to take place via one influencer or another, to solve this they use bots, distraction news, disinformation, shadow bans, and actual bans all while relying on the short attention span of the average man.

>>22905647
I should also add, that in addition to boring plebs, those things forcibly slow down even intelligent and diligent men and women--making it very difficult for anyone outside the inner rings to know any significant amount of information, much less share it credibly with the necessary haste.

>>22905447
It's an ugly Deweyism. Somehow it's become popular opinion. Truly the slaves are obsessed with their own slavery.

>>22905627
>Tell me you have-
Shut the fuck up faggot.

>>22905597
Well then your opinion on education is that it is pointless. What Hutchins argues for is merely that the works of important great men which influenced the political movers and shakers of the past be made available to everyone (or made necessary) in a democratic society because we are taking on the roles they had in the old times and thus should be informed in the manner they were.

>>22905627
No, I am quite poor and never made it to college as I barely made it out of hs. Vocational training isn’t training of the mind or training of the soul. It isn’t the actually important stuff you should familiarize yourself with even if your job you do to get by calls for it. That is the point.

>>22905447
Most people would be fine with knowing the basics. They don't need to read Shakespeare or know about Ancient Rome. Knowing how basic maths, and how read and write, just for practical reasons, would be enough. The rest of their time should be dedicated to learning a trade at some guild, and practicing sports. Literature, History, Sciences, Arts and Maths should be reserved for the few students capable and actually interested in learning them. Knowledge is always aristocratic, and you can't force it.

>>22905664
Yes. This dumb fuck would want everyone to train themselves to be cowboys in school at age 12.

>>22905447
schools focus way too much on STEM, especially Math, and it's far too long. Healthy children need much more art, music, and free time. Overtaxing them makes learning much harder. English is a good middleground that needs more backing, but I hate school and I think the entire system needs to be burned down and rebuilt from the ground up. And yes, school needs teach more useful life stuff.

>>22905447
Kids would be fucking around and goofing off in those subjects just like any other, so how much would they really learn? Some things you gotta do the hard way.

>>22905687
Old cowboys are reaching retirement age.
Gotta train new ones to avoid a shortage.

>>22905463
Source?

>>22905551
Its really not that complicated unless you have a complex financial situation.

>>22905685
But then there would be no propaganda tying Americans to each other. And what with all our varying shades of skin America's lower classes would faction out. We Can't have that happen.

>>22905447
The majority of students will not become wealthy enough to bother learning about the taxation system's intricacies

I have been saying it for a long time, mass literacy was a mistake. Mix that with the internet and you realize most people have no thoughts of worth at all and therefore no desire for anything higher than the wage.

>>22905966
maybe if you could just get a well paying simple industrial manufacturing job to get a home with little taxes and a cheap car in a year or two, people wouldn't be complaining about this. they'd have the free time for more interesting stuff.

>>22905447
The real argument here is that schools should not exist in their current form. Compulsory education is a mistake that greatly lowers the quality of the knowledge imparted and brews nothing but bitterness and resentment. Entire youths wasted in a systemic prison. The best of our minds dehumanized and traumatized by decades of bullying. Social anxiety and normalized drug use. And so on. School is something you do in spite of studying, and the same goes for college. It's incredible we let it get to this.

>>22906013
The system doesnt care about that, it happened as a time period because the inner process of the system werent up to the task. Automation, outsourcing, the system knows most people arent needed.

>>22905447
The problem is that liberal arts in the distant past was mainly a means by which the upper class educated their children about art and humanities. It eventually morphed into a job center thing due to various reasons, and so now we have this abomination that doesn't really make sense.

>>22905447
Shakespeare should be something you read for yourself anyways.

If students were just taught about taxes and getting jobs, they'd say that school was just a job factory designed to make mindless drones of everyone, and that they should learn about things that really matter like the arts and sciences.
Unless it's said by someone who graduated >3 years ago (and so doesn't have resentment or extreme goodwill), any opinion of that sort will just an attempt to rationalize or make publicly acceptable their own like/dislike of schoolwork.

>>22905447
If they taught how to pay taxes and get a job I still wouldn't have paid any attention and nobody else saying that would either

>>22905447
shakespeare shouldn't be taught in schools

schools should be teaching licensed professions, not how to get a job any retard can work at Walmart, that's not what schools should teach

>>22905673
>gets called out
>seethes
Pottery

>>22905682
Right, but how are you able to have a modicum standard of living on a literary scholarship? Someone has to be pulling the strings..

>>22905551
It wouldn't work. It's just not how Americans think. If the government sent a tax bill and said "you owe this much" 95% of people would send them a response saying "no you did it wrong I definitely owe less than that" and then it'd turn into a fight and lawsuits and generally be a shitshow until eventually the IRS says "fine, you calculate what you owe and tell us and we'll do it too and see if we get the same number"

So we just skip the first part and do the second bit.

>>22905447
There shouldnt be any schools. You should have been raised by your mother and father.
We get what we get.

>>22905447
There shouldn’t be public schools and we shouldn’t pay taxes

>>22905641
>but I'm sure neither of you are actually doing anything about the problem
Gee, you think? How did you figure that out? Was it me saying "I don't care, really."?

>>22905916
>Source?
My personal observation.

Retarded people are going to be retarded whatever happens. If they were taught how to pay taxes they would blame their stupidity on the school not teaching them about trigonometry

Also ; somewhere, somehow, educated intelligent hard-working people always get what they strive for. Reading books, learning stuff might seem useless on the spot, but it's not

>>22905447
Dumbest possible take, intelligent only in revealing that the true aim of school is and has always been that of creating good citizens, not good people. So, of course, as society becomes more of a dystopic hellscape where the burocracy to navigate to get jobs and be a citizen becomes more and more perversely complicated, the solution for schools is (as always) not to change society, but to change the next generation to citizens into adapting to whatever bullshit comes next.
It has already succeeded in doing so. Schools at the moment are an exercise in withstanding boredom, i.e. sitting down for hours, respecting an authority figure, doing useless tasks while adhering to the theater play claiming they are actually important. Sounds like office work to me.
That said, Shakespeare and Trigonometry are unironically better for the average adolescent than all of that bullshit. You'll pay taxes and participate in horrible human bands organized to fuck each other up: this is the only age where you have time to reflect upon this stuff as if it mattered.

>>22907268
>revealing that the true aim of school is and has always been that of creating good citizens
always? comprehensive education is a very recent development. anyway having shakespeare fed to you in synthetic and quite distasteful doses at school turns more people away from the bard (for life, in most cases) than anything

>>22907268
Schools at the moment are an exercise in wasting potentially productive years of our lives on propaganda

>>22907288
school are, were, will always be an exercise in getting the children out of the parents hair

>>22907295
That doesn’t scan at all, school used to be very expensive, and public school has always been an idea of propagandists, first by martin luther then by wasps to turn catholic children (hence catholic school being synonymous and used interchangeably with private school in the states).

>>22905447
There's a ton of truth to it.
You start from the ground up. The average person is not smart and doesn't like school. That's hard reality.
They absolutely do not need any kind of sophisticated or complex education. It will never be useful to them and they will resist every step of the way.
They need to survive in the real world that's it. Only "smart" people get to stay in the coddled fantasy world of academia if they so choose. But in true bell curve fashion the people who will actually impact the world also don't want to stay in school playing pretend any longer than they have to. They want real world application as much as the stupid people but it must also be sophisticated.
Why dumb down the more sophisticated side of education so people who will never even use it can pass? That is what is happening right now and as a result literally everybody suffers.
The education system (yes in every nation not just yours) is extremely inefficient and does not even remotely meet the needs of its users. People go to school to make money. I don't care how much you "love learning" everybody goes to school to get a job and get ahead in life. A degree is a career voucher. That is the clandestine agreement. Yet this clear purpose of modern academia has almost been treated like a dirty secret up till now. Academia is an institution of beating around the bush. Much like the students themselves it desperately does not want to own up to its rather large role in society. It's afraid to admit to what it is: a prolonged adolescence.
Schools should actually be doing far more than this. Schools should literally give you a job and if you get fired you fail. This would actually be useful for everyone and that's just the first step. The walls between private industry and public education must be torn down. Do not blame me. This is the logical end point of the neoliberal globalist world society has chosen to live in.

>>22905916
>source?
Primary.

>>22905447
School shouldn't exist.
Taxes shouldn't exist.
Jobs, in the modern sense, shouldn't exist.

What schools should tell children on the first day is that they are a form of prison that provides them with busy work so that their parents can go out and slave for ZOG.

>>22905447
Boomers were the first generation to completely give up being actual parents. Public schools ought to teach both since boomers and now millennials rather their seed watch dancing videos on iPads all day instead.

School should be from 8 am to 10pm with free meals so future generations spend less time with corrupted boomer nonces.

>>22907367
>Boomers were the first generation to completely give up being actual parents
what about the generation before boomers?
didn't boomers grow up on TV and records and stuff like that? stuff which allowed the parents of boomers to basically put their parenting on auto-pilot?

Skill issue. Gen alpha knows how to pay fanum tax.

>>22907367
Boomers did a job, and at least had a stay at home parent usually. Gen X and the other parents of 90s kids did literally nothing good.

>>22905447
>Schools should be teaching
Public education exists to burden the epigenetically ascendant usurpers to old economic and social rackets.

>us
Bell Curvists busy bodies need to be gatekept out of humanities and higher education outside of very narrow specializations. Let the math nerds count beans in peace.

>how to pay taxes and get a job
The mass migrant invasion Ponzi Scheme head hunting would be impossible if there were sane laws opening minors to participate in labor and not rot in school learning the multiple guess tests.

>not Shakespeare and Trigonometry
As Hegel put it, "Philosophy must not be [merely] 'edifying'!!!!" There is no ennobling retards, just teaching the human shaped equivalent of Coco the Gorilla how to go through a pantomime of literacy when they ought to be making widgets.

>>22905587
>The purpose of school should be to educate the electorate so that they can elect competent officials into government offices and have a firm understanding of their own rights and liberties within the nation-state. Public school shouldn't be a place to prepare oneself for a career but a place to prepare oneself to be a citizen.

Literacy was higher in the USA pre-Civil War, because even bumfuck agricultural towns would pitch together enough money for an itinerant tutor to teach kids in the off season, on top of learning from KJV at church and bible study. Public Education puts the cart before the mass democracy horse, which the US was never built for, and unless and until there is qualified political suffrage again - no 'one retard one vote' - the oligarchic, kakistocratic free for all will continue indefinitely. The Department of Education must be permanently disbanded, and college endowments sitting on billions in undeclared foreign funding (as came on the heels of the Charles Lieber & his PLA PHD students' arrests in the early Covid days) must be raided and disbursed to the states to do as they please to pick up the slack.

>>22907367
>functionally gift children to the state as wards

>>22907408
>those who see when they are shown
i'm not gonna lie, this is definitely me

>>22905447
Imagine being in a so fucking large pysop to the point that every knowledge humanity has created turned boring and useless to you. Yeah, good job anon, you did it. You are a retard scum who will never be able to understand what life true it is

>>22905447
>Schools should be teaching us how to pay taxes
Taxation is theft. It shouldn't exist. Schools should only teach people how to avoid paying taxes effectively. Never going to happen though. Because their paychecks come from taxes.
>and get a job
I was taught how to write a cv, cover letter and interview etiquette in english class over the span of two weeks in 12th grade in the shittiest public school system on the planet. There is hardly enough material to fill an entire semester course. Couple that with mandatory volunteer hours to pass government (out 11th grade history class in the state of new york) with the goal to pad out a teenagers resume (I was flat out told this was the point when I was close to not meeting the requirement because I couldn't give a shit) and I think this base is covered.
>not Shakespeare and Trigonometry!
Math should be mandatory, Shakespeare could be replaced by many other things in literature but I think kids should be forced to experience things they don't think they would because they might actually find that they were wrong, expanding their horizons. Ultimately though I think there is a pretty good balance of enforced literature in public schools but its also the field that is most damaged by the way public school teaching is done in America, in service of standardized test scores and not enrichment and the expansion of horizons if the students.

>>22905472
I'm glad my parents didn't teach me how to do taxes and budget and shit. Those folks are broke as hell.

>>22905515
You probably wouldn't even be able to read if you didn't go to high school. I infer this only based on the fact that /lit/ is full of low drive underachievers, but my point is that you hold this view of yourself as a person who has gone through the schooling, was forced to develop the techniques that makes one passible at learning new skills, and has been taught the life skills one needs in order to be so self assure (well, unless they are insane). The fact is that most people wouldn't even bother learning much without being forced to either due to low drive / not seeing the point, or not even being aware of the possibilities due to lack of exposure.

>>22905447
Yes and no. What we need is a more Renaissance style curriculum combined with real life skills.
I understand the intention of the phrase though. Many people now go through school, but they neither come home with knowledge about culture nor with applicable skills, but filled with bullshit like gender degrees and marxism.

>>22907574
This is retarded lol, who doesn’t know how to read before kidnergarten?

>>22907574
Everything that I know about literature is self taught. Schooling did nothing for me and I really feel it hampered me quite a bit and held me back. I had already taught myself to read full chapter books by age 3 iirc and I had already read everything in the library at the preschool while the others were still beginning hooked on phonics. Anything I need to know I could’ve self taught. School was a waste of time and saddled me with a ton of people I vary between find vaguely annoying and outright hating and wishing death upon but that is no issue of yours to know about.

>>22907588
This reading is entirely self taught, my parents showed me how briefly and then I just did it myself and I used a dictionary to find word meanings if they weren’t there, regardless niggers will figure it out to participate in twitter and tiktok.

>>22905551
Because more money for the government/private businesses (tax firms and investment firms)/for profit prison system. They will say it is in the interest of our freedom but that is bullshit. If ever you think "why is america stupidly doing x" rest assured it is ultimately about maximizing profit for the nations share holders.

>>22907598
Schooling is important for most people like the typical man on the street who at best can only read the newspaper but wouldn’t make it through a page of Proust or Joyce which was my point. The sort of people who seek out literature like the kind discussed here were all self taught I imagine or if they went to school it wasn’t really any influence on them.

>>22905633
Statistics and probability are definitely more important. Calculus as it exists currently as a course doesn't need to be mandatory. Not that anon but personally I'd like to think there's a way of teaching Calculus without the rigor and sundry techniques, as the concepts and theorems are usually the easiest topics for students, to transmit the principles, concepts, and aesthetics of calculus to intelligent non-STEM students because I think the ideas present in differential and integral calculus are useful to a liberal arts education.

>>22907603
Reading is a very basic skill that doesn’t justify the age 5 to 18 public school curriculum, if there should be any public school it should be 5 to 8, then with those basic skills you can enter the workforce and begin your path to retirement 10 years earlier or you could apply to a specialized school for a specific career path. I am convinced that I for one would have a much better life right now if not for child labor laws.

>>22905551
Why are you so retarded you want your taxation to be out of your hands lol

>>22907583
Im sorry, I should have specified a certain level of reading. You would probably still be on picture books. Still, many statistics Im reading for America show something like 50% of the population on average aren't considered literate before kindergarten.

>>22907627
Lol. This guy thinks registering his shit on turbo tax means the government wont use his tax records to freeze his assets if he does something they really don't like, if he filed them correctly or not. You having to guess your own taxes is at best a chore created as a reminder to you that you owe your overlords, at worst it is a method of controlling domestic opposition. Either way it doesn't make you safer for your tithes to the government to be in your hands. And for the record, I think taxation is theft and you shouldn't pay them. Not that the government should be the only say in how much they steal from you.

>>22907370
The people who raised boomers definitely fucked up but they also fought WWII so most people give them a pass.

>>22905447
They don't know how to teach people to get a job because the job market is in slow free fall and what jobs are remaining are based on nepotism, and who would want a job anyway.

Taxes? Who doesn't know how to do that? You only pay taxes if you have money anyway.

>>22907588
Good for you man. Sorry public school took so much time away from you. Being gifted can be tough in a society that is ultimately filled with the norm, for which public school is a necessity. I wish you were born to better parents that were diligent enough to see your potential and get you into programs and tracks that would have better suited your gifts. My original point still stands for the common man.

>>22907629
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and assume if you don’t know how to read before 5 you are already too far behind to make a career out of it

>>22907653
What do you mea by "make a career out of becoming literate?" There are other benefits to learning how to read and write than becoming a literature professor or a writer or something. For example literacy is hugely useful in helping you learn literally anything else due to having access to written materials on any given subject. Which you can still do if you are a little late to the party.

>>22905447
they should be teaching you both, as well as civics

>>22905447
Schools could easily teach both in less time than they do now. If only they were run by competent people. But they're not, so neither will be taught.

>>22905447
Considering we live in a world where money is god and capitalism a religion, I'd say yeah. Probably no need to get rid of math and literature, nor should you you, but schools definitely should teach more finance related stuff.

>>22907699
Capitalism is not a mere culture

>>22905482
The book Teacher Education in America shared a similar sentiment. That book argues that schools becoming too vocationally based was a net negative for education.

>>22905447
I'd encourage anons to read John Locke's "some thoughts concerning education". He had very interesting and, in some respects, controversial views on education, namely that public school is uneccessary and tends towards the corruption rather than the improvement of the understanding, and that the chief aim in education should be to instill in young people a love of virtue, honor and reputation. He is more or less advocating for homeschooling under the watchful and critical eye of a tutor. If anyone does read it, do keep in mind he is writing in the 17th century and from the aspect of educating a gentlemen (future owner of an estate). Really great read, though.

>>22907588
you should have skipped grades if you were so far ahead, did you trachers not notice you were far more advanced ghan your peers? Even if they wouldn't have skipped you some grades ahead, at least give you more difficult reading material

The most important thing a child should be taught is critical thinking skills, which very few schools do

>>22907745
The last thing they want is kids using the socratic method

>>22907723
Spinoza said something about the state needing to be separate from education as well I believe

>>22907750
I definitely agree. Do you happen to know how education in Britain was organized in the 17th century? It seems to me that it was largely organized by the local community, not state and federal oversight and mandate.

>>22907754
No idea sorry

>>22907765
was just curious. It was make more sense for education to be localized by community need. It's a little insane for everyone across an entire state or nation to hold to the same educational outline.

>>22905447
Gotta train the slaves to pay banker debt. Cyrus was right - the most important skill for men to learn is how to fight. Everything else makes them equivalent to women.

>>22907731
My life is very complex but one of the key events which happened was that a private school for gifted kids approached me to join when I was in preschool but my parents did not have the money for that. The problems in my life are numerous and not any business of yours but I would say that event was one of the key ones which influenced my life negatively.

This board is pretty incredible. Most of you fuckers can't even hold a single conversation about a single book while saying anything above the superficial level. But waahh waahh how retarded people are for not wasting too much time and retaining too little like me. You are all welcome to live in shitholes like communist china or wherever, assuming you aren't already living like bugs over there.

>>22907802
Seethe more

Trying to restore a uniform humanities-based public education system in Western countries where the youth is overwhelmingly multi-ethnic is a pointless endeavor.

A tiered public school system may work but I doubt it would be politically feasible. The best you can hope for is a public education system aimed at making students employable as soon as possible and a parallel private system with a classical curriculum aiming at building individuals rather than merely workers. Of course that will further erode socioeconomic mobility.

>>22907802
Shut your mouth. You don’t know anything about me. As for your whining and the general education of the populace the fact that people like you personally do not see the use of great books in classrooms for understanding the world around you doesn’t mean they are useless and we must return to a purely vocational apprenticeship training like medieval Europe. We have every right to “seethe” at this insipid opinion because it is incredibly stupid to have an opinion like that in the modern world where the great books are made available to all instead of only the elite.

>>22907746
>>22907745
When has critical thinking existed? Please tell me? None of your favorite writers went to public school and got smart there. Most didn't live when public school was a thing. You can't teach critical thinking.

>>22905447
People should be able to just learn those things themselves. Being taught it in a school environment is just a race to the bottom to spoonfeed people information and skills that they should be capable of learning outside of the classroom. If someone does not see the value in learning about the arts and sciences, then they're either fucking retarded and/or the material is just taught very poorly and in a way that is not engaging for your average student.

>>22905616
>I do agree
My school actually did shit like this. At least in terms of taxation, budgeting and financial responsibility. It's obviously fairly simple for the vast majority of people because most people aren't running businesses with a lot of employees and they don't have several complex streams of income. It was kind of useful, taught us how to create proper budgets using excel, how to read payslips and what the terminology means etc etc. It didn't take up that much time, maybe a couple classes a week for a few months.
The issue isn't that schools should teach life skills such as these however. The real problem is completely fucking different. The actual dilemma faced by schools is that the people who claim to want to be taught "useful skills" are the same people who won't fucking listen when they're being taught anything whatsoever. They just come up with different excuses every time they don't want to listen or be taught. It's just that this is a very common excuse which is efficient because it pisses teachers off and makes them go on a tangent allowing retarded pupils to avoid actual work and distract an entire class.

>>22905447
People saying this shit wouldn’t take those classes seriously either because they would be dumb kids while taking them. They’ll get older and say “damn I should’ve took that class seriously I’m so dumb.” Would be a waste of time

>>22907627
Anon, your taxation is not in your hands. In the US, you pay a small fee for someone else to do your taxes and then the IRS says they're right or wrong and they solve any discrepancy after. In every other Western nation, the equivalent of the IRS just takes the appropriate amount and solves any discrepancy after. Regardless of what you say, it's what Mr Taxman says that's important unless you want to dispute it which you're free to do in any Western country. The only thing that's different is I don't have to pay anyone to calculate my taxes, I get a letter at the end of the financial year with all my numbers and if something is wrong I just phone them and they sort it.

>>22907731
You'd be surprised with some schools, anon. I was personally recommended by my teachers for several subjects to skip ahead. Discussed it with my headteacher and I was told to write an essay on the benefits and why I think I should. Proceeded to do so, she did not give a fuck and told me if I want to do that then I can move school. Of course it was a rural high school so unless my parents were willing to move house then that wasn't happening.

>>22905447
I have no kids, and likely will never have them. It's irrelevant to me what school teaches or does not teach.

>>22905447
If a school can teach someone to read and do math, then they have everything they need to do taxes.

>>22908236
You are around the product of schools every day regardless of whether you have children. They also tax your property to pay for these schools.

>>22908218
If you are self employed then you have to do your own taxes or pay an accountant (usa or elsewhere), if you work for a medium or large company, they have payroll departments where they calculate your taxes regarding work salary. If you do something on the side, for that you have to do it yourself or have an accountant to do it.

>>22905447
It's just people finding excuses to hate on school because they just hate school. It wouldn't matter what they were teaching they just hate having to get up and sit in a classroom all day

>>22908253
Regardless of school curriculum they are going to tax me, that will not change.
Also in my country there is a really bad shortage of teachers, teachers wages are shit and young people just aren't interested in teaching. Teachers also have zero legal protections and basically even retarded and violent/aggressive kids must be taught in the same class with regular students. It's a shit show, I think plan behind the scenes is to push for remote classes and distance learning like during covid and I am ok with it. School as a separate place/location for learning is an outdated concept. Many kids go to school just to fool around and waste time for everyone. Learning at home will benefit those who want to learn and those that don't care ..fuck em.

>>22905447
I think near the end of elementary school (which I think should run to 7th grade) there should be classes on practical skills and the state of thr world.
Basically I think elemtary school should teach everything you need to know to exist in society and work a physical job. Literacy, numeracy, sex ed, nutrition, how money works, geography and a basic rundown on other cultures and our history.
Then high school (grade 8-13) should be totally optional and more intensive and build up a true knowledge base. High schoolers should be reading the classics, not just learning math formulas but learning how they were derived and what problems they solved at the time, they should engage with history via debate (the classic assignment of presenting them the issues and flyers the founding father faced and asking them to write a constitution and then debate each other about the outcomes, repeated for most big crises of history)

>>22908366
>High schoolers should be reading the classics,
Retarded

>not just learning math formulas but learning how they were derived and what problems they solved at the time,
Retarded

>they should engage with history via debate (the classic assignment of presenting them the issues and flyers the founding father faced and asking them to write a constitution and then debate each other about the outcomes, repeated for most big crises of history
I think most people hate or at least dislike history as a subject, trying to engage in debate about history with people aren't interested in history is a complete waste of time. There should two separate curriculums regarding history, for those interested in it and general subject that introduces and explains (basically info dumps) various time periods and significant events, without any retarded debates.

>>22905608
You are quite literally retarded. Other countries have multiple tax bands and means testing but this is done by a government agency, you don't need to manually do it yourself unless you're self-employed.

Gradeschooling is something the entire population goes through and should be kept to the absolute minimum since we're taking about both sides of the spectrum. The elongated education pipeline going on is one of the greatest wastes of time and talent
>>22905463
a humanities supplement won't do shit for Tyrone and the gibbons my friend, it'll actively retard their ability to graduate.

>>22908435
See in my system retards like you who are only interested in the superficial can just graduate primary school and be a waggie and leave high school to people who actually want to learn

>>22905447
my school taught me both these things. The problem now is schools are so filled with kids who should not be there that the standards have dropped below sea level and any class that requires any effort is removed so schools can graduate enough kids that they don't lose their funding

>>22908458
I want to learn just not the garbage that you want to teach

I've never paid for taxes in my life.
>Sales tax?
I've never purchased anything with my own money.

>>22905597
You are the populace too

>>22905551
our tax system is designed to be cheated while yours cucks you with no recourse offered.

>>22908493
Most public schools counteract this by having gifted classes like AP or AICE programs. Sure, you standard highschool class is going to have retards and low standards but most highschools recognize the gifted kids and put them in classes together that have higher standards.

>>22908435
why is reading the classics "retarded"? Why is leadning what use mathematic principles have in the real world "retarded"? That is the opposite of retarded. You sound like a bitter brainlet.

>>22905447
Anti-intellectualism is popular because people don't like their morals, beliefs, virtue, or conventions challenged.
It's not a conspiracy it's just people are dumb.

public education should be abolished

>>22907588
No offense, but the fact you're using the reaction image you are means you will contribute nothing to society ever under any circumstances. I absolutely dare you to challenge me on any subject within which you feel you have a passing mastery above that of the mediocre.

You sound like a narcissist.

>>22907588
Yeah because the vast majority of humans are seriously dumb.
School has to be watered down for the absolute slowest person there.

>>22908579
Reading classics should not be compulsory, if somebody wants to read classics that is absolutely fine but don't force it on people. Same with learning maths beyond maths, it's fine to have students introduced to applied math but it should be more or less abstract, because only abstract maths allows development of an analytical mind (at least the beginnings of it). Once they finish high school they can then specialize in either subject and learn things that they need/want.

>>22908688
It's not about understanding raw subject matter but about growing the way you think.
Even if you never use algebra, to be able to understand the abstract idea of a variable and what it represents has significance in daily reasoning.
Same for reading literature and developing emotional and subjective intelligence.
The problem in contemporary society is we have to many "career" educated dipshits who can't form a cogent argument or thought.

>>22908703
>It's not about understanding raw subject matter but about growing the way you think.
School should only have a very small part in that, it should be for individual person to grow and discover himself without (often harmful) interference from the school. School is the place of educuation and making students understand raw subjrct matter is what it should be focused on.

>Even if you never use algebra, to be able to understand the abstract idea of a variable and what it represents has significance in daily reasoning.
Agree

>Same for reading literature and developing emotional and subjective intelligence.
Regarding emotional intelligence that is garbage. It may be neccesary for some students but not for others.
Regarding subjective intelligence and understanding of literature, that is fine but people should be allowed to choose literature from a wide variety of works, just forcing students to read classics is retarded. If they don't like it and aren't interested in it, they will put zero mental effort to understand it and develop their subjective intelligence.

>The problem in contemporary society is we have to many "career" educated dipshits who can't form a cogent argument or thought
As opposed to having tons of emotional intelligence educated faggots who can talk about nothing (classics) for hours but cannot concetrate for 30 minutes on some rudimentary task.

/// There were no soldiers visible here, just traffic and crowds of shoppers and storekeepers, tourists and the schnorrers who hit them up for money /// Lisa was living it up like she didn't have a care in the world /// The discovery was a fluke /// The analysis needs to be more granular /// The ancient ivy cleaved to the ruined castle walls /// The speech touched on all the important issues but never really discussed them /// A ballot snafu in the election led to a recount /// The drug is very effective - the only snag is that it cannot be produced in large quantities /// People with devious intentions always manage to find loopholes in legislation /// The car gave a sudden judder, then stopped dead /// She might live to rue this impetuous decision /// For now, foreign companies should tread carefully and onshore user data when possible /// We had to trudge through deep snow to get to school /// The play just plodded along in the second act /// Wortman is listed as a denturist — a person who makes dentures — in the city of Dartmouth, near Halifax /// She'll be delivering the keynote address at the conference on Friday // He rummaged through the jumble of papers on his desk /// That is not much comfort to a motorist stuck in a snowdrift /// When they reached Trafalgar Square, the demonstrators were hemmed in by the police /// He is a philologist, specializing in American poetry /// Let's avoid that particular rabbit hole and consider a broader and more unsettling point ///All images were taken at 8000 frames per second, using schlieren photography /// The meticulous artist arranged the vibrant flowers in a perfectly set bouquet /// It's told in epistolary format (with emails messages, letters) as lawyers try and figure out what happened /// My older brother and his cronies all got computer science degrees as they were told this would be the "it" job of the future /// Under a new administration, the government has changed tack /// Plaintiffs and jurors seem mostly like rubes shoehorned into the show /// She viewed her students as blank slates, just waiting to be filled with knowledge /// The top of the wooden chest was inlaid with ivory /// When the economy hit the skids, trailers offered an alternative form of cheap, year-round housing ///

>>22905447
Society declined when they stopped teaching theology and geometry. Imagine what Boethius would say if he saw modern education.

>>22905447
Boomerism, like when they tell their smartest family members to drop out of college and become a pipefitter.

>>22905447
they should at least gradually teach you life skills in high school, because god knows you're not gonna learn anything practical in college

>>22905447
Schools should be teaching black people how to fucking read.

>>22907465
B00kmark