/lit/ - Literature

By being an independently wealthy aristocrat and dedicating all his time to writing and reading

>>22871415
one word at a time

>>22871415
I went through a big Tolstoy phase in my younger years but I have greatly soured on him. I can’t really think of another writer that I’ve felt that way about

>>22871415

By not doing that.

>>22871426
Why?

>>22871415

Ha he looks like Santa Claude’s

>>22871450
I know I will be mocked but his books are incredibly heteronormative. We have it on record that even then people were much more fluid in the gender and sexuality but Tolstoy writes characters in the most narrow and stereotypical cismasculine/ feminine way. For an author celebrated for his characters and open mindedness he's actually very narrow and closed minded.

>>22871460

What are you talking about you’re either a manly man with a beard or a fluttery flower woman with a vajungajan. Get out of here.

>>22871460
You're right. You are worthy of mockery.

>>22871460

This is why I could never get into Tolstoy. His books seem so overtly sanitized. He was a staunch conservative in his day, which for the Russians, meant basically regurgitating whatever their local Orthodox church told them, and uplifting the values of the Tsardom.

>>22871460
Go read Childhood by Tolstoy

>>22871450
This isn’t me >>22871460

He is too preachy and it comes from a position of resentment I feel. The young man who carouses grows older, feebler and can no longer carouse. He inveighs against his previous life. That would be fine as a cautionary tale but Tolstoy comes off as a curmudgeon and a zealot. It’s hard not to get the feel of “I can’t do this anymore so it’s bad. You are a bad person if you do that”. His later short stories and parables are so one note it’s not even funny. And wtf is What is Art? One of the most laughable things that has ever been written and I’m no fedora tipper. Tolstoy became a caricature and disowned his greatest works. He just rubs me the wrong way. Preachy, condescending, and a zealot. Blah…

>>22871460
You are intentionally baiting but the old incel wrote a work seething about marriage and women and all that shits. With the right wording your post could only be right. Though the fags in this board shall get defensive toward a man whose works they have never bothered to read since why should they do anything that doesn't involve moving their penis, to themselves of course.

>>22871460
kek

>>22871482
That's what makes Tolstoy the most based author though. Total confidence in what he believes, always speaking from a place of wisdom even if others disagree with him. His voice is more dominant than any other author that I've encountered yet his writing is so good that he still manages to conceal it and utterly immerse the reader in his stories. That takes serious talent. War and Peace is 1400 pages and still flows obscenely well.

>>22871460
>>22871482
Holy mother of based. Gonna brush on on my Tolstoy soon. You anons should've said this before

>>22871532
He is a good writer but not one to loved. He wrote well, his books are good, but they don't stir the spirit, offer no glimpses of sublimity the way Dostoevsky can. I may be wrong since I haven't read War and Peace which is considered his greatest, but I have read most of his other works.

>>22871460

>>22871556
>I haven't read War and Peace
bruh...

>>22871556
Yeah, I would be fine with Tolstoy if he stopped after W&P and AK. Dostoyevsky is just deeper. I know it’s cool to hate on him here but he is one of the authors who battled himself in the depths of his soul. He may not be as polished but he makes up for it with power and spiritual turmoil. Tolstoy could never write a character like Ivan. That was a man going deep inside himself. TBK should almost be read in a Jungian sense. The argument Dostoyevsky, a religious man mind you, put in Ivan’s mouth for The Grand Inquisitor was a man sounding the depths. I’ve always seen it as an allegory for the Kierkegaardian leap. Ivan’s argument was strong and irrefutable. A religious man could never put that argument forth. It just shows the power of faith and what exactly faith is, and how it is arguably the most important part of spirituality or religion

>>22871556
Very silly to say that Tolstoy didn’t tackle soul or sublimity. He always wrote about God, mortality, man’s purpose, suffering, etc. There’s no reason to believe that Ivan Ilyich or Hadji Murad don’t stir the soul as much as something like Notes from Underground or Crime and Punishment. Tolstoy was a very comprehensive intellectual and put a magnifying glass on so many different aspects of life

With a quill, pencil, or pen probably

>>22871586
I don't disagree. Maybe his works are just not for me. He wrote like a wise sage and with such a voice that one is compelled to believe in what he said to be true, that his observations of people are likely real. But that's just it, that's the simple mundanity for what it is. He does not challenge or drive you to perforce question everything, he simply presents convincing arguments. When I read about Ivan Illych I saw a pitiable man and his idea of death and life. It's not easy to put into words but Dostoevsky's characters, while less realistic, are like prophets who you can't help but adore and drink in every word. Even Dimitri, a man you are supposed to pity, can enforce in you new thoughts and emotions

>>22871618
It’s often said that Dostoevsky is the psychologist and Tolstoy is the sociological. You just have to go with what you prefer. Personally I like Tolstoy’s panoramic overviews of modern society in his novels, to me it’s more artistically complete and impressive although Dostoevsky is often more relevant and philosophically profound

>>22871460
you genuinely don't belong here, go away

how did Tolstoy know exactly what it feels like to be a beautiful 17 year old girl? is he trans?

I hate War and Peace for describing stuff needlessly too much. Like, I don't care about how fucking old the oak is. The only character I really enjoyed was Bezukhov

bump
I'll add something relevant because I hate an empty bump. I was just reading the beginning of part 4 of W&P, where Napoleon is looking for somewhere to ford the Niemen. He sends an adjutant to the Polish uhlans, who happen to be nearby, to order them to scout for a crossing. The, 'handsome old colonel' of the uhlans turns red with excitement, and in a rapturous, suicidal, desire to impress Napoleon, he asked if he could swim across the river, without looking for a ford. The adjutant basically shrugs and says, "sure." and the colonel charges into the freezing, surging river with hundreds of uhlans behind him. 40 guys drowned swimming across the river and Napoleon wasn't even paying attention, and he left before they had finished crossing. Was this old polack retarded or something? Why are people like this? He started acting like a child. Tolstoy even says, 'like a boy who asks permission to get on a horse, he begged to be allowed.' Seems Freudian. The old man regresses in Napoleon's presence. It's funny. Napoleon later gave him some medal or special high-honor, between a dozen other orders being sent throughout his army. I don't think a guy like the colonel will ever realize how fucking stupid he is. How totally pointless and uncalled for the greatest perceived achievement of his life is. Pretty funny.

>>22871415
what else does one do during Russian winters?

>>22871415
He dictated all of it and his wife wrote it down. It's called having an amanuensis.

>>22872707
She didn’t write the primary texts of his novels, she rewrote all the drafts and transcribed them several times

>>22871415
by raping his slaves

>>22871482
same...had the exact same experience with Tolstoy, now I can barely stand him

>>22871460
judging an author who died over 125 years ago on modern ideas of gender and sexuality is a great way to set yourself up for disappointment in life. Even queer academics would find this take stupid.

tolstoyevsky

>>22871497
Originally he did believe that a woman's only place was as a wife and mother but later on he disavowed sex and marriage entirely. So his mature opinion expressed in The Kreutzer Sonata wouldn't really be considered misogynistic as you say. He criticizes men just as much as women in this book.

>>22871460
>the world has always been super queer, teehee
lmao

>>22871415
How did he write such a realistic depiction of a beautiful 17 year old princess? Was he trans?

>>22871467
You have never read Tolstoy. He hated the Tsardom and was excommunicated from the church. None of his views in most of his work is aligned with Russian monarchism at all

Can’t have one thread without some type of jew or tranny bait, antibait, ironic bait-take, straight bait-take, or any form.

>>22871467
Imagine posting such a poorly informed comment. Some people just spew their idiocy all over the place, huh?

>>22871460
faggot

>>22874390
literally EVERY word of that post is wrong i'm in awe

bump

>>22874926
dump

>>22871482
Judge the work, not the man. Most of his work is still the pinnacle of literature.

You only hate him because he shames you as a human being.

Also, What is art is the greatest essay written on art. Only Heidegger has anything comparable in its clarity and pungency.

>>22876662
What does Heidegger have on art? I ask because in general I’m not familiar with any treatise on art that is as clear and earnest as What Is Art. People may disagree with Tolstoy but as you say, no writer has the clarity that Tolstoy does. Every word just lands.

>>22871467
Redditor hang yourself

>>22871460
41% yourself already troon

>>22871460
the only insightful post in this whole thread

has anyone here ever read Resurrection? I'm about 100 pages in and don't understand why it's maligned (yet)

>>22877553
i'm about 100 pages from the end and it's ok and has some good insight, but in general it's a lot less interesting than his big two, or his good short stories/novellas imo. it's really dragging, you can see what he's trying to do and it's a good and worthy thing but it's pretty boring desu and too drawn out

>>22871482
I don't think his position comes from resentment.
He is not wrong about living a life dominated by your passions being bad for yourself.

I think we have a bad culture, in that people are led to believe that you either live a very promiscuous life and is happy or you wish to live one and are unhappy.
Which is wrong in more ways than one.

>>22877553
The parts about Georgism are why it's maligned apparently (haven't read it myself but that's the consensus)

>>22877619
i'm maligning it for being tedious and simplistic

>>22877638
it does have an extremely good opening though

>>22877657
Trite moralism. Just like all late-Tolstoy works. Yawn.

>>22871460
what the fuck

>>22877553
I for one liked it very much. I disliked Anna Karenina, I hate women I think. Resurrection however was great.

>>22877951
why would you try and portray yourself as being insufferable?

>>22877951
He was always a moralist, right from The Raid. Read more.

>>22871415
Let us not forget the ending to War and Peace. It was a record scratch sound to end a great book. And what was the point of Sonya? Tolstoy set her up with one of the most beautiful scenes in the book with the sleigh ride through the snow. It was for nothing though. He didn’t know what to do with her so he made her have the cuckhold horns at the end.

Anna Karenina is a solid book but one of the most overrated in my personal opinion. I don’t get how some say it’s the greatest book ever. Even War and Peace is better

Nagel from Mysteries got it right with Tolstoy.

>>22877970
Not to the extent he later became. Most of his later writings are fairy tales for illiterates.

>>22877982
>And what was the point of Sonya? Tolstoy set her up with one of the most beautiful scenes in the book with the sleigh ride through the snow.

I finished War and Peace recently and these were my exact thoughts. I was very disappointed with how it all ended for Sonya and the sleigh ride scene is arguably the best in the novel. The way he paints Sonya in that scene is nothing less than literary genius.

>>22871460
> I know i will be mocked
great way to make bait threads, going to use it when shitting up /tv/ even more. they deserve ot after all those fishtank threads

>>22877951
Numb cynicism is far worse you puss filled boil

>>22877982
>>22878285
>It was for nothing though
i dont see it that way at all. just because it wasn't a happy ending, doesn't mean it was "pointless". her fate is absolutely perfect for her character. shes a poorfag, not a princess, she doesn't get the fairy tale ending, she gets the crumbs from the table, and thats how life is for us poorfags sometimes

this also fits with Tolstoys ever present resentment of the weight of dynastic obligations and aristocratic culture, showing how Nikolai was forced to marry to save his families wealth and social status and how the quintessentially beautiful love story of Sonya suddenly had to be shelved and take a back seat to obligation.

if you think its tragic and unfair then good, its supposed to be tragic and unfair, its supposed to be a mediocre disappointment that leaves a bad taste in your mouth. potential pissed away in the wind. welcome to the human experience

>>22878766
All the other characters had happy endings. Even Andrei saw the light.

>>22878794
and none of the other characters were in the position that Sonya was in

>>22871420
But how was he so smart? He didn’t even finish college, he got bored and went to the army

>>22878766
Here’s what makes sense to me based on how the characters developed:

- Nikolai and Sonya
- Pierre and Princess Marya
- Natasha and Denisov (or any other chad for that matter)

I’m a little skeptical with my last match because Tolstoy did say that Natasha was the type of girl to go completely “mom-mode” when she settles down. But regardless, it was very weird for me that the least attractive character (Pierre) ended up with the beautiful young girl that drove countless men crazy. At the end of the day, you’re absolutely right, the Rostov’s were financially ruined and the norms of aristocratic society prevailed. And I, like you, felt that from the very beginning, Tolstoy was subtly attacking the heroic, aristocratic concept—which is more or less confirmed once you get to the end of the book. So “how the couples ended up” is likely part of that critique. Great response, thanks.

>>22871415
I only saw snippets of his wife's diaries. And yes, the argument can be made to say that she probably only wrote when she was anguished and distressed so the image her journals paint is hardly objective.
Be that as it may, it seems like the sensitivity, worldliness and acute connection to the human spirit that Tolstoy displayed in his novels was hardly present in his real life. I guess that's further proof to how accomplished a writer he was. Since he managed to write with such mastery and seemlessness on sentiments that he personally did not possess. Lol.

So he just dictated his books to his wife and she polished them and made the female characters believable?

>>22871460
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh man good one

>>22871460
10/10 post please have my (you)

>>22879969
No. Where did you get that impression? He understood women very well so he wrote them very well? His wife transcribed his works, she didn't write the primary texts

>>22880949
>His wife transcribed his works, she didn't write the primary texts

Where did YOU get that impression? Pretty obvious he leaned heavily on her for female characters.

>>22871415
I recommend anyone who dislikes moral grandstanding to skip the epilogues of War and Peace entirely. And that goes double for all his post Anna Karenina nonfiction, and although there’s still some great fiction after AK his moralfaggotry starts gradually leaking into that as well. It’s hard to describe, other Russian authors like Dostoevsky and even Pushkin aren’t immune to pushing some of their own biases in their art but none of that rubs me the wrong way as much as when Tolstoy does it. Maybe he’s such a titanic figure that it’s just sad to see him fall to the foibles of ordinary men. Maybe because some of his later work even has a touch of senility about it if I’m not mistaken. It’s one thing to rage against and curse the world as a young artist and another entirely when you’re like 70

>>22881318
His country was on the verge of collapse and his existence was one of the things preventing it from falling into chaos. He had a reason to be a bitter fuck even if it's not compatible with what he preached. His hypocrisy is well-known but it's not unjustified. His quarrel with his wife and religious followers for example. His wife wanted the rights to his estate and works but Tolstoy knew the aristocracy was gonna get beheaded anyways. Why would he proudly stand by his wealth?

>>22881318
It's the hypocrisy from Tolstoy that makes the moralizing more unbearable than from Dosto or Pushkin. He really wrote "How Much Land Does a Man Need?" as a rich slave rapist.

>>22881495
He stopped being a slave rapist after marrying ok

>>22881503
Oh it's okay to preach austerity if you don't rape your slaves anymore. Got it!

>>22881513
i feel like tolstoy understands evil and why people do it, and why they shouldn't, exactly because he has been there himself

>>22881520
Okay I'll read a Tolstoy short story to learn why I should own and then rape a human slave. Got it!

>>22881525
shouldn't*

>>22881513
People make way too much of a deal about this. He was a wealthy degenerate aristocrat in his youth. If anything, I trust his word about why private property and wealth inequality is bad. He has first hand experience of being on top and realizing how miserable such a system is. Why shouldn’t his voice be as trustworthy as the cushy cosmopolitan academics we all admire and read? If he is a hypocrite, then let it be so. He has more experience than most of us and that’s why his art was so good. Few artists are not hypocrites. It’s the source of their profundity. See his novella The Devil which is based on his own youthful lust for fucking serfs

>Oh it's okay to preach austerity if you don't rape your slaves anymore. Got it!

>>22871415
Tolstoy. Despise him immensely. A philistine and a philanderer. What Is Art and his life has shown that. A moralizing degenerate. Save the preaching for the choir, old man. Use that negroid nose of yours to shove it up god’s asshole as you force your readers to do. A writer who is favored by young boys and those who have read less than 30 books in their life, aka people of no taste. Massively miffed by other Russian writers like Dostoyevsky, Bunin, Chekhov, Gogol, Pushkin, Gorky, Lenin, and any Russian toddler who has ever scribbled a line or two. A reader should rather spend his time shoving a toothpick in their penis hole than read T*lstoy.

>>22871415
Imagine not believing in evolution.

>>22882886
You‘re the one without even the bare minimal courage of responding directly to him.

>>22871415
I've never read him because i don't like reading aristocratic literature. It always comes off like it's detached and missing just a little bit of that something.
Meanwhile I read Dosto and he recognizes that life is shit. I like writers who have lived in the filth instead of dreaming of what it must be like.

>>22871467
>Tolstoy
>regurgitating whatever their local Orthodox church told them, and uplifting the values of the Tsardom.
I hope this is bait

>>22871460
Amazing fucking bait

>>22881495
A poor author writes that a life of wealth and power is fucking horrible and drives you towards become a self-destructive asshole causing pain and inflicting violence upon yourself and everyone around you as you struggle with the futile task of upholding your house of cards in the constant chaos of existence.
>"Kek cope harder poorfag, you know fucking nothing, you never saw the apogees of life, you have no experience, faced no challenges, have no family to feed, what's your shitstain opinion worth, who the fuck are you lol"

An insanely wealthy, aristocratic, blue-blooded entrepreneuring war veteran with a massive family and experience of political offices writes that a life of wealth and power is fucking horrible and drives you towards become a self-destructive asshole causing pain to yourself and everyone around you as you struggle with the futile task of upholding your house of cards in the constant chaos of existence.
>"Wow hypocrite much"