/lit/ - Literature

If god real why bad thing happen

>>22863974

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQu7oO19VGE

>>22864003

woops, wrong clip. anyway, watch time bandits.

>>22863964
I went with the Catholic lectionary and a part of Luke 1, and I took from it that sometimes you have to buck the “trad” in favor of the holy, as shown by God’s will for St. John the Baptist to have that name, when none of his relatives had it. I personally have no Catholic ancestors, so this part especially spoke to me as something new in my blood

>>22863964
> tell us what you notice
You do realize you will have to sweep up all the ostraca, right? This is not any different from mathematics if you don't want to become a garden-variety crackpot. You have to undergo a rigorous study regimen to have any hope of making an original contribution.

There are thousands of dappim worth of commentary written by your intellectual superiors who thought very hard about the implications of every word in the source material. Consider enrolling in at least parashot study and the Daf Yomi program.

This is not difficult.

>>22864092

Scripture is fairly clear in its meaning, anon. It's called Perspicuity. Sure, experts might be able to bring important niche contextual data to the table, but they're just as likely to become crackpots as ordinary people. The point is to read it, understand it as best you can, and believe.

God did not give us prophetic speech or scriptures for it to be analyzed by professional scientists who have mastered hermeneutical data extraction, as useful as that can be at times. He gave it so that we would be changed.

>>22864499
This is typical protestant Bible Study mode. When they meet up they actually don't want anyone to study anything--just talk about how the words relate to their own understanding of life.
It's not totally worthless, but it's closer to an AA meeting in the scheme of things.

Innovational rendition of the nativity for this time of its feast.

And the birth of Yesus the Uncted was thus. When his mother Maria had been betrothed to Yosef, before they could come together, she was found to have conceived from the Holy Spirit. And her man Yosef, being rightwise and unwilling to make a show of her, desired to separate with her in secret. But when he had contemplated these things, lo, a messenger of the Lord appeared to him in a dream saying, Yosef, son of Dawid, thou needst not have been afraid to accept Maria as thy woman, for what hath been begotten in her is from the Holy Spirit. And she shall bear forth a son, and thou shalt give him the name Yesus, for he shall save his people from their sins. And this all hath come to pass to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, Lo, the virgin shall conceive and shall bear forth a son, and they shall give him the name Emmanu'el, which by interpretation meaneth, God with us. And when Yosef had wakened from sleep, he did as the messenger of the Lord commanded him and accepted his woman; and did not know her until she had borne forth a son; and he gave him the name Yesus.

And when Yesus had been born in Bethlehem of Yudaia in the days of Herodes the king, lo, mages from the east appeared in Yherosholyma, saying, Where is he who was born as king of the Yudaians? For we saw his star in the east, and have come to pay him homage. And when King Herodes had heard this, he was disturbed, and along with him, all of Yherosholyma as well. And when he had gathered together all the leading priests and the scribes of the people, he inquired of them as to where the uncted one would be born; and they told him, In Bethlehem of Yudaia, for thus hath been written by the prophet: And thou Bethlehem in the land of Yudah, art in no wise least among the leaders of Yudah; for it is from thee that there shall come forth a leader, one who shall shepherd my people Yisra'el.

>>22865792
Then when Herodes had secretly summoned the mages, he learned from them the time of the star's appearance. And when he had sent them to Bethlehem, he said, when ye go, search around carefully for the young child; and whensoever ye may find him, bring me word, so that when I come I may pay him homage as well. And having heard the king, they went their way; and lo, the star which they saw in the east went before them until it reached the place where the young child was and stood above. And when they saw the star they were deeply gladdened with a great gladness. And when they arrived at the house, they saw the young child with his mother Maria; and having lowered themselves, they bowed at him; and when they opened their treasures they presented him gifts: gold and olibanum and myrrh. But when they were warned in a dream not to return to Herodes, they departed for their country another way. And when they had departed, lo, a messenger of the Lord appeared to Yosef in a dream, saying, When thou wakest, take the young child and his mother, and flee to Aigypt, and be thou there until I tell thee; for Herodes will seek the young child to destroy him. And when he woke, he took the young child and his mother at night and departed for Aigypt, and was there until the death of Herodes, to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, Out of Aigypt did I call my son.

Then Herodes was very furious when saw that he had been fooled by the mages, and when he issued the order, he did away with all the boys who were in Bethlehem and all the borders thereof, from two years old and under according to the time which he had learned from the mages. Then what had been spoken by Yeremias the prophet was fulfilled, saying, A voice was heard in Rhamah, weeping and much sobbing, Rhakhel is weeping for her children and is unwilling to be comforted, for they are no more.

But when Herodes had died, lo, in Aigypt, a messenger of the Lord appeared to Yosef in a dream, saying, When thou wakest, take the young child and his mother, and go to the land of Yisra'el; for those seeking to take the young child's life have died. And when he woke, he took the young child and his mother and came to the land of Yisra'el. But when he heard that Arkhelaos was reigning over Yudaia in the stead of his father Herodes, he was afraid to go thither; and when he had been warned about this in a dream, he departed to the parts of Galilaia, and when he arrived there, he settled in a city called Nazaret, so as to fulfill what had been spoken by the prophets, that he would be called a Nazoraian.

>A new chapter of the Bible has been found, hidden inside a 1,750-year-old translation from the Gospel of Matthew. The chapter was found by medievalist Grigory Kessel, who used ultraviolet photography on manuscripts in the Vatican Library.
>The translation – first written in the 3rd century CE and copied in the 6th century CE – has not yet been released in full, but offers slightly more detail than the Greek translation of Matthew chapter 12. In verse 1 of the Greek translation, a sentence reads "at that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath; and his disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat," while the Syriac translation discovered by Kessel ends "began to pick the heads of grain, rub them in their hands, and eat them".
https://www.oeaw.ac.at/en/news/new-testament-fragment-of-1750-year-old-translation-discovered

New update dropped

There should be a King James-esque translation of the apocrypha found in modern Bibles like 3 and 4 Maccabees and Psalm 151.
Is anyone here an expert in Elizabethan English?

>>22867371
KJV Cambridge Cameo with Apocrypha is nice but lacks what you said. The RSV (and not NRSV or anything modern) contains 3 and 4 Maccabees and Psalm 151, but not in the KJV-style. Still better than reading them in the ESV.

I think Adonijah and his mother were Egyptian and black.

>>22867389
What’s wrong with ESV?

>>22867389
Also, the KJV Cameo is ‘self-pronouncing’ which distorts the original form of the words and is unsightly.
All KJVs with Apocrypha that I’ve seen on- and offline are reference editions which I’m not to fond of as I’d rather immerse myself in the text than be distracted by footnotes on every page.

>>22867435
not too fond of*

>>22863964
Is John the Baptist the reincarnation of Elijah?

>>22867547
The chair we set apart for Eliyahu HaNavi is certainly not intended for any John, the Baptist or Dillermand or any part of the john.

>>22867561
I know ‘Ha’ means ‘The’, but what does ‘Navi’ mean?

>>22864092
The people you're referring to don't even know that Christ is King. As it says in the Holy Bible, "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (I Cor. 2:14)

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen."
(I Timothy 1:15-17)

>>22866054
It already says that in Luke 6:1.

There are writings like the Diatessaron (pic related) that take parts of different Gospels and blend them into one narrative, such as this passage. Underlined the picrel are the parts from the Gospel of Mark.

>>22867421
It has a bunch of removals and alterations, some of which are from the modern critical text and others are the ESV translators' whim.

A small selection from among the inaccurate translations that are specific in the ESV would include the following verses:
Matthew 1:7-8 "Asa" changed to "Asaph" (name of David's psalmist rather than the king Asa; a mistranslation in ESV only)
Matthew 1:10 "Amon" changed to "Amos" (name of the prophet Amos rather than the king Amon, also in ESV only)
Matthew 15:6 "or his mother" removed (ESV and NET only)
Mark 9:44,46 verses removed (in ESV, NIV, NLT, and NASB 2020 edition)
Luke 3:33 "son of Aram" changed to "son of Admin, son of Arni" (increases the number of names by one: ESV, NLT, NET only)
John 1:18 "only begotten Son" replaced with "only God" (ESV, NET only)
2 Corinthians 5:21 "in him" removed (ESV, NIV, NET only)

There are many more besides these, but this gives you some examples of some horrible translations by the ESV editors. This is above and beyond the ones that appear in most non-received text translations.

Biblical accuracy is important, so I would recommend using the KJV as always. This is to avoid missing these important details, which are factual statements that often clarify things that modern Bibles leave out.

>>22867800
Is there a Received Text translation in modern English?
You’re saying that the RSV may not be the best but is the least worst, right?

>>22863964
I've been reading a lot of Kierkegaard lately in an attempt to stabilize and give meaning to my meaningless, loveless life, and today, reading the Bible, I came again upon this line I'd glossed over previously:

"Et ecce offerebant ei paralyticum iacentem in lecto et videns Iesus fidem illorum dixit paralytico confide fili remittuntur tibi peccata tua." [My translation: "And behold, they offered to Him a paralytic lying in bed, and Jesus, seeing the faith of them, said to the paralytic, Son, be confident; thy sins are remitted thee."] (Matthew 9:2)

So the Supreme Being, instead of first curing the sick man of his palsy (which he does do later), forgives him his sins. What I love about the language is how brief it is. We don't even get a picture of the man's reaction. What pure, uninterrupted joy he must have felt that, even though he was still sick and had no intuition that Jesus would then cure him of his sickness, he was free from sin itself. How absolutely freeing and empowering that release. If Jesus had merely stopped there, how far above the lives of other men that man's life already was, to be forgiven of his sins by Christ. His life was already saved, and Jesus still shows further mercy: "Tunc ait paralytico surge tolle lectum tuum et vade in domum tuam." ["Then said He to the paralyzed, Rise, take thy bed and go into thy house."]

To be free of sin completely and utterly and He does it before His Resurrection for a stranger out of love. I think that's why every night now I've prayed the Christ Prayer (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner) because, more than anything, more than my defects of character or my anxiety or my awkwardness, if I could just know that I'm doing my best every day to love others in and through Christ and to avoid sin, that would give me solace.

>>22867824
Well, the KJV is in "early" modern English. The version that we usually read and which you'll find online was revised in 1769, to conform to modern spelling standards, and its format was further updated in minor ways until the year 1900. I would say that counts as being modern English.

As far as more recent translations of the received text, I've checked them but I always find serious problems with them. The NKJV for instance, it changes singular things to plural inexplicably in several key verses such as Genesis 22:17 (contra the point Paul makes in Galatians 3:16) and Isaiah 53:9. There are also sheer contradictions in the NKJV in places like 2 Kings 23:29 (compare to 2 Chron. 35:20). It also messes up in the New Testament, apparently following the critical text perhaps by accident in several places (2 Cor. 4:14, Acts 19:9, Jude 1:3, Revelation 6:11), so for all those reasons I don't recommend it. This is because I am assuming a person wants accuracy of the English to the original text over other features.

As an aside, despite being more recent, translations like the NKJV are not always easier to read than the KJV, for instance in passages like Judges 8:13. There is also no difference between second person singular, and second person plural, pronouns in the NKJV (difference between ye/you and thee/thou). This difference affects the meaning of passages like Luke 9:41, Luke 17:21, Luke 22:31-32 and John 3:7. The NKJV always uses "you" regardless of whether it's singular or plural, so you lose some context in that translation.

There are other more recent TR (as well as Byzantine majority text) translations I've heard of and checked, but the ones I've seen stumble in multiple places as well.

>You’re saying that the RSV may not be the best but is the least worst, right?
Well, the 1952 RSV follows the critical text and it uniquely removes things that a lot of other translations don't. In Isaiah 7:14 the RSV changes "virgin" to "young woman" in regard to the prophecy about Christ. Even most modern translations still correctly translate Isaiah 7:14 to say "virgin" in this verse. Another few examples are: in Luke 24:6, the RSV removes/omits the phrase, "He is not here, but is risen." Also, only the RSV and NRSV remove the phrase "by faith" from Romans 5:2. Meanwhile, only the RSV and the NASB (the new 2020 edition) change the phrase "I thank God" to the phrase "I am thankful" in 1 Corinthians 1:14.

The RSV, the NIV and the NASB (2020 edition only) also attempt to remove a difficult passage in Mark 14:68 by omitting the mention of the rooster crowing the first time. This is sometimes considered a "difficult" passage because in Mark's account specifically, Jesus said that the rooster would crow twice, but these three modern translations (RSV, NIV, and the newest edition of the NASB) simply remove the mention of that. So, if you ask my opinion, I would not recommend the RSV for these reasons.

>>22867873
The Catholic Church slaps on an Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat on many translations on the basis that such differences between them don’t constitute a change in doctrine. So it can’t be all that bad.

>>22867904
I'm sure this information will help someone.

>>22867873
is there any english translation that doesn't suck

>>22868036
Yes I would go with the King James Version, also known as the Authorized version. Because it's based on the Received Text.

>>22868055
What about other languages that never had a Textus Receptus tranlsation, which is nearly every language on earth?

>>22868094
Mandarin Chinese has the Peking Committee Bible (New Testament translated 1872, complete translation done 1874) from the Textus Receptus. Spanish has the Reina-Valera 1865 edition which is fairly close as far as historical translations go, or the more recent work done on the Reina-Valera tradition by various groups including TBS in recent years. Hindi has the Owen translation (New Testament 1860, Old Testament 1869) among others. French has the 1855 Lausanne revision of the French Geneva Bible (first edition completed in 1588, based on Olivetan's earlier translation of 1535). Arabic has the 1867 Smith and Van Dyke translation, which is also based on the Textus Receptus. Bengali has the 1866 Calcutta Baptist Missionaries Bible, etc.

>>22868123
What about the indigenous languages of Australia, the Pacific, the Americas, and in Asia the countless languages of India, the numerable minority languages in Russia, southeastern Asia, and the non-Arabic predominantly Muslim languages?

>>22868138
Most people aren't monolingual in such languages

>>22868157
Those make up the numerical majority of the number of languages, not the number of their speakers.

>>22863964

The book of Jonah is literary genius. Any other Jonah enjoyers? Chapter 2 outdoes any of the psalms in terms of poetry for me.

>>22863974

Rip 2000 years of Christian philosophy. This is truly a dark day for theism.

>>22868205
J.R.R Tolkein had a hand in translating the Book of Jonah into English in the Jerusalem Bible.

>>22868289

Pulling that up as we speak. No idea that was a thing.

Bibleanons what do we think about NET
I just need my heckin readable but accurate balance

Recently read "Why God Became Man" by St. Anselm it was very enlightening the book is a dialog between him and a student attempting to prove why God had to become man with points constructed of pure logic and no faith. To summarize their conclusion is that the penance required for original sin was so great that no human male would be able to pay it but God loves us so much that he sent the Word to become the son of man and complete the penance for all of us.

>>22867389
The English Revised Version and Brenton's translation of the Septuagint have some of the most expansive set of deuterocanonical books. Brenton's includes Psalm 151.They're both in Early Modern English style and in the public domain.

https://ebible.org/eng-rv/
https://ebible.org/eng-Brenton/

>>22867371
The English Revised Version and Brenton's translation of the Septuagint have some of the most expansive set of deuterocanonical books. Brenton's includes Psalm 151.They're both in Early Modern English style and in the public domain.

https://ebible.org/eng-rv/
https://ebible.org/eng-Brenton/

>>22866054
>>22866054
Editions of the Old Syriac text do exist as well such as the certain Evangelion da-Mepharreshe.

>>22869193
Some of those books are gnostic and others admit not to be Scripture (1 Maccabees 9:27, 1 Maccabees 14:41). You could pretty much just grab any random Greek writings like maybe fragments of Pythagoras or something and add them to get more apocryphal books for yourself, or maybe add some more early gnostic stuff that we haven't had as long.

>>22869425
The other anon probably just wanted version with the most books of all the popular canons.
This is how I feel texts should be most ideally ordered.

—The Law
Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy

—Histories
Joshua, Judges, Ruth, Samuel, Kings, Chronicles, Ezra–Nehemiah, 1 Esdras, Esther (expanded), Judith, Tobit, 1-3 Maccabees

—Prophecies
The Twelve Prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Baruch, Epistle of Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel (expanded)

—Wisdom
Psalms (incl. 151), Prayer of Manasseh, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Job, Wisdom, Sirach

>>22869484
Hi Anon, Merry Christmas. What say you about the New Testament apocrypha? How would you include them or what would you include? I know there's a lot; I've been trying to wade through them.

>>22869484
I don't believe in a book that says God created the world of matter (Wisdom) or that some people wrote seventy divinely inspired books that are hidden from us. The medieval kabbalists for example latched onto this because it's a gnostic teaching. I also don't think that Nebuchadnezzar was actually king of Assyria and ruled from Nineveh, or that he conquered the Medes, as it says in the opening of Judith. I care about the Bible, and I'm not just going to add random stuff that is clearly manmade into it, trying to pretend it's equal with God's word.

>>22869505
Probably not much of an exciting take but for practical purposes I feel NT apocrypha is not as common or found within any official canons, so it would therefore not be as practical to include them in a Bible. Maybe it would be useful have them in there own compilation like the desert and apostolic fathers.

>>22869522
Oh well, it doesn't stop it from being a popular interest.

>>22869193
>https://ebible.org/eng-rv
This just has the same Apocrypha as the KJV and the other one doesn’t have 2 Esdras but is otherwise interesting.

>>22870584
It was the first English Bible with a complete translation of 2 Esdras. The one in the KJV was based on an incomplete Latin manuscript.

>>22870839
I don’t see 2 Esdras here.

>>22871710
You just gotta click harder
https://ebible.org/eng-rv/2ES01.htm