/lit/ - Literature

so has anyone reenacted an esoteric high Egyptian priest ritual yet?

Resources for learning classical arabic?

>>22828818
https://theswissbay.ch/pdf/Books/Linguistics/Mega%20linguistics%20pack/Afro-Asiatic/Semitic/Arabic%2C%20An%20Introduction%20to%20Koranic%20and%20Classical%20%28Thackston%29.pdf

Salvete, anonae.
Iterum veni ut nuntiarem tibi:
Multae feminae cum mea dormiunt.
Gratias tibi.

>>22828780
No, but one day I'd like to compile a 'bible' for the cult of Sol Invictus because I have delusions of grandeur centered around creating a new sun cult that spreads around the world and overtakes Abrahamism.

>>22828949
Multae feminae cum femina tua? Spectare mihi licet? Puto temet in cubiculo alio, cuck

>>22828962
Based beyond all mortal reason

Give me a philosophy so I can call you saint Aurel and ascribe your theories separately. In centuries people will hear about you from me and realize it's the same person and this is a real thing.

>>22828978
>Multae feminae cum femina tua? Spectare mihi licet? Puto temet in cubiculo alio, cuck
Sugere mentula meum

>>22828994
I-I don't even know latin yet.
I just bought wheelock yesterday.

does 4chan take time to update all the replies to a post? I swear to god I just watched >>22828936
pop up between >>22828818 and >>22828949
and >>22828994 was the latest post.

>>22829004
Easy now. You're on the right path. Don't rush through it either, have fun with it.

All I need is to know whether this is a monotheistic sun cult or polytheistic or pantheistic? Also, if one historical figure and one fictional figure agreed with it who would those people be?

Is Duolingo a good way to learn Latin?

>>22829009
بىلمايمەن...

>>22829023
no

>>22829023
you can read cicero in one day after using duolingo

>>22829018
I was thinking you'd have Sol Invictus act as the primary god with each of the lesser gods of the Latin pantheon act as semi-independent 'aspects' of him. Like how you shoot light into prism and a bunch of different colors come out the other end.

Daddy Aurelian loved Sol Invictus. I think they even called him the sun king at one point, but I can't remember very well.

>>22829002
exsorbe semen meo e membro, barbare cinaede (Graece)
aut te irrumabo (non dubito quod verbum nescias.)

>>22829037
>Like how you shoot light into prism and a bunch of different colors come out the other end.

Perfect.

>>22829031
You can laugh but the notes are concise and very useful.

>>22829023
Duolingo is of debatable utility for living languages, especially since they locked much of the site behind various paywalls. The saving grace is the audio.
No such luck for latin.

>>22829004
>.gif
why? why make a still image a gif?

>>22828780

>>22829075
I realized it was a still image but I couldn't be bothered to go find another picture.

>>22829049
Putasne istuc nescio quid? Novi Martialis. Nihil te poeticum scis. Idiota.

>>22829092
Is this a yes??

>>22829101
>errata grammatica per omnia scripta sua
>clamat alterum "idiotam" (quod Graecum verbum est)
mirum.
Festina, "idiota," semen e membro non se exsorbebit.

>>22828962
>t.

>>22829142
who?

>>22829137
You are a nigger

>>22829166
kek, that's honestly the funniest reply. I was not expecting that. This was a funny interaction and easily the most educated discussion on this godforsaken board. Sorry for the low blow of making of your grammar, you're doing great

>>22829166
*in latin

Do we have any references to Roman Pagan practises in Cicero or other similar authors?
Like he's written a letter and in one of them he just so happens to describe a sacrifice of an animal (even though the recipient would be well familiar of it)
Any later authors?
Perhaps Christian authors who were familiar with Pagan practises, thought it was a novelty and didn't feel the need to embellish it

>>22829202
Thanks fren

Requesting a master of Greek.

>>22828949
At least check your grammar first if you want to latinpost

>>22829295
No you're supposed to post then check. Check him if you want but posting in Latin is always correct

>>22829295
He did singular 'salve' last time

>>22829295
>>22829344
instead of bitching why don't you respond to him in Latin so he has some practice like the other guy did. You both are faggot posers and the problem with this board.

>>22829359
>n-nooo you have to post in Latin
>why? because I demand it!!!!
>no I will not post in Latin myself
>p-p-poser
suck a dick. You have as little power here as you do in your personal life

>buy used Latin: an intensive course
>all notes and highlights stop after unit 4
someone couldn't take the heat

>>22829369
>makes fun of grammar mistakes to feel intellectually superior
I'm not the one who browses 4channel to escape a life of a being a loser

>>22829387
Yes, you browse 4channel because it enriches your soul

>οἱ λατινίσκοι ἤδη ἀλλήλοις διαβάλλονται
οὐδὲν καινὸν ἐν τῷ /κλγ/

Is the amount of grammar you need to learn to read Latin versus the amount of grammar you need to learn to write Latin?
I've been learning a modern language and I find I can be very lax with memorisation because I am only interested in reading

>>22829377
Kek, also check'd

>>22829359
This. At least correct things if we see them

>>22829377
CHEGGED

Now that's comedy

>>22829295
>conqueritur de erratis grammaticis
>Latine non respondit sciens se ipsum erraturum
>adeo superbus est ut nihilominus temptet
pudetne te?

>>22829511
>adeo superbus est ut non nihilominus temptet
Vide, etiam ego erravit

>>22829405
Judging from how you phrased that question, Latin will probably require more grammar than anything you've ever learned before. You will realize that you didn't even know what grammar was before, and it will be very rewarding.

>>22829377
vae victis

>>22829142
I don't trust him at all.

>>22829402
δῖοι Ἓλληνες ἒτι και νῦν διαφέρουσι τῶν Λατινδαίμονων ἐν τοῖς ἀστυνόμοις ὀργαῖς

Outside of Greece, what are your favorite primary-source (ie not from a later/different culture) literary treatments of mythological narrative?

>>22829871
Roman, Alani, and Aorsi pottery. Anything Sarmatian, Scythian, or Roman and visual. The Scythians had cool metallurgy though. Better than Greek imo, but their jewel cutters somehow end up being inferior.

>>22829871
Oh just realized you said literary. Basically Greeks were supreme in the field. Singlehandedly.

>>22829912
>>22829918
No that's ok, I love visual stuff too, I will check out all of those, thank you. If you have any recommended books on the topic that would be awesome actually.
I figured no one would be on the same level, in terms of literature/poetry but I'm fine with second or even third rate, just interested in all of it. So far in my research it seems like China and Egypt are relatively lacking, India is decently strong, and Sumer is the most influential, directly or indirectly. I know the Celts have some poems and I know Germanics have sagas with poem fragments, but I don't know as much about their level of completeness or quality.
I don't mean to diminish the superiority of the Greek tradition in any way, and I will never get around to reading the majority of this shit, I just like having at least a shallow understanding of the big picture.

>>22828773
...þó lætr Gerðr í Gǫrðum gollhrings við mér skolla...

>>22829871
Old Irish is supreme among "barbarian" cultures. I recommend The Destruction of Da Derga's Hostel, Buile Shuibhne & the Metrical Dindsenchas for mythology that are barely Christianized pagan mythologies rather than the opposite, which Germanic mythologies often are. Old Irish is the one European vernacular language with a substantial corpus of mythological literature that was written at exactly the point of conversion, and not centuries upon centuries later which you see with Germanic lit.
Old Irish, however, is probably one of the most difficult classical languages to master or even learn. The grammatical rules involving initial phonetic mutations is insane and the verbal conjugation patterns are also retarded. It's pretty nuts how the Insular Celtic languages became grammatically deviant so quickly considering that earlier Continental ones like Gaulish are actually very grammatically similar to Latin & Italic languages.

https://celt.ucc.ie/irlpage.html

Anonymus amicos suos salutat.

Quamquam non soleo legere canalum quartam, aliquondo huc veniam et mirar. Heu, qua stultitia hic legam! De mentilis, de semenibus, de meretricibus? Cur nemo loquitur de Vergilio an Plauto? Non intellego, sed utinam umquam melius sit.

Avete atque Valete

>>22830699
Ubi de meretricibus scribebamus? Rogo pro amico.

Is it ok to ask for some mythology book recs here? I recently finished God of War 2018 and it got me wanting to read more on mythology, like Norse, Greek, Egyptian and Chinese.

>tfw thinking about how much literature is lost forever compared to what we have
just for example, the four major greek playwrights would have written hundreds of plays cumulatively, but we only have ~40.

>>22830948
Be grateful we have anything at all.
>only 40
You haven't even read those

>>22830699
quavis de causa latinitatis tironiculis placet de nugis istisc confabulari pertinentibus ad pudenda

מה קורה חבר'ה? מה אתם קוראים עכשיו? אני קורא את ספר דניאל, העברית שלי סבבה ואני מבין כמעט הכל, אבל הארמית שלי עדיין חרא וקשה לי לקרוא בלי תירגום.
יש פה דוברי עברית?

Or just biblical Hebrew

>>22831841
When you say "Biblical Hebrew" are you talking about Medieval Hebrew or classical Aramaic?

>>22830877
>Norse
Poetic and Prose Eddas, idk about the sagas but there's probably at least some element of mythology in there. Plus Beowulf.
>Greek
Basically all longform Greek poetry is myth-based, so Homer + Homeric Hymns + the tragedians + Hesiod's Theogony + Pindar's Odes. The other extant lyric poems have less in the way of mythic content but references are still common.
>Egyptian
You have to tease out the mythical content from ritual texts for this one, afaik. There's Pyramid Texts, Coffin Texts, and the Book of the Dead, I'm not sure what the best approach is for getting at actual myths - the only ones I know of are the creation myth and Isis/Osiris/Horus.
>Chinese
Anne Birrell's book looks good. Shan Hai Jing and Shiji would be the main primary sources but I don't know how coherent they actually are as mythological narratives.

>>22830948
Yeah it's pretty fucked up. But if you take into account all the different cultures and literatures out there we have a fair amount of classical stuff, certainly more than enough to fully explore in one lifetime. And the effort of curatorship across millennia is still quite impressive even though it only managed to preserve the highlights.

>>22828773
Antio

>>22829112
Yes, it's an ancient buck-breaking ritual.

>>22831992
great setting and had a lot of soul but the actual RTS part of the game kind of sucked. I hated how hard the counters were to each other. The strategy just doesn't have the same subtlety of AoE2, but AoM is always a treat because the tech, units, civs, buildings, etc are far more varied and interesting. Though the Titan civs suck

Thoughts?

>>22831918
Chu Ci is invaluable about shamanistic practice and belief, albeit regional. Zhuangzi uses apparently mythological forms, albeit in satire.

>>22832365
Excellent, like all the Assimil courses other than Arabic.

>>22832379
>other than Arabic
Why?

>>22832382
No idea how they produced a course that bad, but everything about the Arabic course, from the choice of vocabulary to the quality of recordings, is just noticeably worse than all the rest.
The Ancient Greek, Latin, and Sanskrit courses are phenomenal. I think the Ancient Greek is the best, since it explicitly deviates from the "tourist language" format of the others. But all give a superior grounding in the language and help develop that inner reading voice.

iamiam fortasse tandem tempust mihi quae scripsit Cicero ille legere, principio censeo legam libellum de natura deorum

>>22833035
I'm happy for you.
Or I'm sorry to hear that.

Standards fall everywhere. The new curriculum in Taiwan has drastically cut Classical Chinese.

>>22833059
Make the case for why universities (or maybe even high schools, idk what you believe) should support (or mandate?) classical language instruction.

Is it easy to find books in latin/greek to read on an e-reader?

>>22833079
yes

>>22833087
oh ok

>>22831911
kys

1) there is no "classical Aramaic" , there is Imperial Aramaic
2) I know both, but I struggle a little bit with Aramaic parts of the Bible, book pf Daniel to be precise

>>22833063
Language acquisition is an important faculty and cognitively beneficial. Second language acquisition supports first language capabilities. Classical languages have special utility for reflecting on our cultural forebearers and present cultural identity and are likely to die out without academic support. In the case of the sinosphere particularly, formal language is a heavily classicized register that's hard to master or even parse without extensive reading from the classics. Moreover, I doubt curriculum time gained from axing classics is used for anything better: usually it comes along with generally falling standards.
That Taiwan should cut back on Classical Chinese right now is transparently a de-sinicization effort. I have no real opinion on the politics behind that, but sacrificing literacy to own the PRC is really silly.

>>22833255
>1) there is no "classical Aramaic" , there is Imperial Aramaic
Based

>2) I know both, but I struggle a little bit with Aramaic parts of the Bible, book pf Daniel to be precise

Wait a dern minute, what does that divide look like in Daniel? It's just weird vocabulary right?

>>22833063
t. ze bugs man

Has anyone here learned Koine first as a stepping step and then moved to Attic?

Hello /clg/ I wish today to present to you two items that may be of interest to you

https://archive.org/details/erasmicolloquias00erasuoft/page/56/mode/2up
>Erasmus' Colloquies, schoolboy level latin of basic conversational topics to help one learn to use latin in daily life.

https://archive.org/details/proverbschieflyt00blaniala/page/n139/mode/2up
>Erasmus' Proverbs, catchy latin one liners to use idiomatically

What will I be able to read after finishing italian Athenaze I? What about the second one?

>>22833830
Koine and Attic are different, closely-related dialects of the same language. Studying one will not "lock you out" of the other. We should really put this in the FAQ.

>>22834500
You can start with Lysias after It-athenaze

>>22834500
if I remember correctly the first Athenaze book finishes without even having introduced the future tense, which is IIRC the first chapter of the second, so be patient and read both, by the last chapter of the second you'll already be reading Aristophanes

>>22834507
>>22834521
Thanks, I see people on leddit saying that I'll be unable to read anything, but it just now crossed my mind that they are talking about the original athenaze

>>22834545
It is certainly a tougher transition than LLPSI > Amphitryo > Caesar. But it is possible with a good head for grammar, a dictionary, and diligence.

>>22834545
Read JACT Reading Greek after Italian Athenaze if you want a smoother transition

I have my first Classical Chinese exam on Monday, wish me luck /clg/

any general exam tips? the structure is just to translate a text and answer simple grammar q's

>>22834597
There isn't a unified tradition of CC in the West, so it's hard to give any tips other than to stay calm and pace yourself. Many professors are prone to giving texts you've seen already on tests, so review those.

Here's a question: would any anons be interested in an English-annotated Guwen Guanzhi? I may take that up as a project once I have some time. I'd effectively just be adapting the Sanmin edition for Western students. If you're interested, would you be okay with Zhuyin annotation, or is pinyin a must? Zhuyin allows for nicer typesetting, especially for vertically text.

>>22833079
you can download epubs/mobis from wikisource for any latin/greek text they have and then read them on your tablet

>>22834726
god e-readers are so based.

Anyone, particularly froganons, know if there are any facsimiles of Garamond's New Testament in print? It's my favorite font in the world.

Is there anything similar to the Clay library for Sanskrit that uses Devanagari or another Indic script? I recoil at romanized Sanskrit.

>>22833303
It's acually quite funny, because the language shifts midsentence. It's Daniel 2,4 - וַֽיְדַבְּר֧וּ הַכַּשְׂדִּ֛ים לַמֶּ֖לֶךְ אֲרָמִ֑ית מַלְכָּא֙ לְעָֽלְמִ֣ין חֱיִ֔י And the astrogers said to king in Aramaic (from this word the Aramaic parts starts) oh king may you live long... (my own translation).

The main difference is the vocabulary, but you have also some changes in derived stems, possesive pronouns etc.

>>22834778
My classics department has an old copy of Aristotle that uses a similar font. My friend and I were so confused until I investigated it. The only one I readily recognized was the ου diphthong because I saw it still being used in Greece when I went there this spring.

>>22834951
Digraph, anon. It's never been a true diphthong, ὅσον οἶδα.
I really adore calligraphic Greek. It's a shame it seems to be a moribund or dead tradition.

>>22828618
Memorization in the sense of putting information into you memory is important, certainly, but that doesn't mean brute-force memorization of words with no context is the best way to do it.

>>22828675
If nothing else phonology is interesting to the student for things like poetic meter and puns.

>>22834976
The problem is that complete vocabulary coverage is impossible, and supports through media other than reading are scarce with classical languages.

>>22834972
I like some of it (a lot of them are quite beautiful) but a lot of the ligatures just go to far and become very hard to read without specific study.

>>22835012
actually I might as well give the example of the ἦν. I can kinda see it but if I didn't know the text I'd assume it was something like ιὦ which is complete and utter nonsense, and I struggle to see how η turns into part of that.

>>22833538
That's not an answer to his question.

>>22833059
The Homer textbook that I used in college was originally targeted at high schools, and had the selections required for college admission.

>>22835078
Textbooks should be as simple as possible. There is no reason to use circuitous language or indirect explanations. Doing smart things does not mean we have to fellate ourselves over how smart we can sound and end up losing meaning and effectiveness in the process.

Is there a sequence of texts for Sanskrit learners? Greek and Latin have Xenophon and Caesar; Arabic has the Qur'an; even Chinese has the Analects and other beginner texts. What do Sanskrit beginners read?

>>22835089
I should probably explain that the textbook was selections from the Iliad with glosses of any Hapax Legomena, notes, a short Homeric grammar, and a dictionary in the back. I should have explained better that the expectation was that you could read Homer in high school. The book is Benner's selections from the Iliad.

>>22828773
the bible

>>22828675
>he can't into poetry
Yikes.

>>22835049
It's an "if you have to ask" situation.

Quick survey: how many people here are also in /poetry/? It seems like these two generals are the most (necessarily) literary and erudite on the board, and there's a lot of clear crossover.

>>22835096
Thanks!

>>22835256
Only if it's Greek or Norse. Latin meter is a meme do not let them fool you. Greek and Norse are all about Aesthetics and heavy prepositional uses which gives freedom.

So yes, you have one here.

>>22835266
Latin poetry is just less interesting than that of the other four major classical languages, and yes Latin authors cheat a lot more. Homer can get away with it because he's Homer. No Latin author is Homer. But then that was just the Latin character.

>>22835276
>Homer can get away with it because he's Homer
hmm Steamy take, also very correct

>>22835281
I forget which epigrammatist in the Greek Anthology compared Homer to the sun, and I'd appreciate if another anon could dig up that particular epigram. There is and can be no other such summit of Apollonian art.

>>22835256
I don't use it bc I'm much more into consooming than producing but I've looked at the latest edition a bit because it also mentioned general poetry discussion, not just people sharing original work. If that became the norm, then I would frequent it.

>>22835266
>>22835276
>>22835281
>>22835298
Ok wtf I didn't know /clg/ was THIS based...

>>22835337
I haven't written any poetry in a while. I'll say that I like writing Greek poetry better than Latin, especially with all the particles. I really should get to writing or else my friends will embarrass me. I also haven't written anything in English in a while.

>>22835337
I used to frequent it while having a psychotic episode and experiencing irregular levels of inspiration. I worry about indulging any creative urge for that same reason, because my life is still in ruins from that time. But the level of erudition there was impressive. I get the sense that these two generals are the only ones where people actually read.

>>22835373
>I used to frequent it while having a psychotic episode and experiencing irregular levels of inspiration.
Ahaha yeah I only ever get the urge when the hypomania is hitting, but even then I'm usually just focused on analysis, not creativity.
Hope you're able to get back on track in one way or another. Life's a bitch but sometimes fortune is unexpectedly on your side.
>But the level of erudition there was impressive
Yeah there's necessarily some eccentricity mixed in but I've felt the same way, certainly much better than I would've expected from the concept of "4chan writes poetry". Not enough people to have real momentum or focus or mutual inspiration but it's better than nothing.
>I get the sense that these two generals are the only ones where people actually read.
Slight overstatement but yeah most of the board is debatelord purgatory.

>>22835349
That's cool if you can do it, I don't think I'd write anything I really cared about outside of English but I'm sure it's a great exercise.

>>22835102
What about it?

>>22831841
>>22833255
> ש פה דוברי עברית?
Biblical Hebrew, but far below your level. Will take me ages until I get to start Aramaic.

>>22835410
No one finds it strange that Biblical Hebrew comes from a group in the 9th century and Aramaic was the language before 0 AD?

>>22835479
Meds

AHHHHHHHHHHH

I DONT CARE ABOUT DIKAIOPOLIS
I HATE DIKAIOPOLIS AND XANTHIAS
GET OUT OF YOUR FIELD
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>22828962
what are you waiting for faggot?

>>22835493
Just wait til you meet Samjayah and Rahulah

>>22835490
There shouldn't be any difference if they were peers. Instead we see Syriac develop from Aramaic then Masoretic medieval Hebrew develop out of west Syriac.

>>22835512
Apply what you're saying now to any other language. Also meds

>>22835526
Exactly. Linguistic equivalency is how we arrive at this problem. It is clearly a later construction. I think you are biased because of religious conviction.

>>22835530
Meds

>>22835533
If you don't have anything valuable to add you really shouldn't spam.

>>22835493
Don't worry, the story will become more interesting after certain incident in Athens

Does anyone else find that heavily inflected languages get easier over time? Like, I can very quickly recognize entire paradigms and word classes in Russian or Sanskrit, yet Turkish with its lack of obvious distinction between word classes now frightens me.

>>22834976
flashcards are a very efficient way of memorizing a bunch of words in a short period of time and their use shouldn't be discouraged because the words have "no context"

>>22835582
yup. Learning Greek and German after mastering Latin was actually quite a simple affair as far as inflections are concerned. You already have a good mental apparatus that you can graft Greek onto. Of course it's not 1-1 so you'll have to expand that apparatus to fit Greek but it's very helpful

Is something like this a good resource?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dnG6fuj1jY

>>22835998
>youtube video
I doubt it, but that's my gut, not my head or experience.

ⲁⲛⲇⲣⲉc ⲕⲁⲗoⲓ ⲭⲁⲓⲣⲉⲧⲉ ⲏⲗⲑoⲛ ⲩⲙⲓⲛ ⲁⲅⲅⲉⲗⲱⲛ oⲧⲓ ⲇⲓⲁ ⲙⲓcoⲩc ⲉⲭⲱ ⲧoⲩc ⲁⲓⲑⲓoⲡⲁc
Ⲉⲣⲣϣcⲑⲉ

>>22835090
Aren't most of Sanskrist texts forbidden to be read without a guru under the threat that you will be invoking demons or something like that?

>>22835998
That's some cursed ass anglo pronunciation, damn...

What's the best way to learn Classical Chinese with 0 modern Chinese?
Do I need to learn modern Chinese and Mandarin?

>>22836813
Infographic. No, you don't need Mandarin any more than you need Italian for Latin.

I have learned the first 7 chapters of Genesis in the Latin Vulgate bible and it's 495 words so far. I read that there are 8,000 unique words in the Hebrew OT and 5,000 unique words in the Greek NT. After taking away duplicates, I have to learn around 10,000 words just for the bible. God damn......

>>22837022
Once you know your bible well enough you will be able to figure out these languages fast enough to surprise you through it. Keep at it.

>>22836874
Thanks
I have a feeling the gap between step 1 and 2 will be brutal though

>>22837031
Not really, since after you finish Barnes and Van Norden, Fuller and Rouzer go all the way back to baby mode. The difficulty curve within each of these books except Van Norden is what's brutal.

>>22837029
I'm actually determined to learn the bible through the vulgate, as I've never read the bible or know it's stories. I get caught up once in a while and refer to the Douay-Rhiems but only once I've racked my brain a few times over a confusing line.

>>22837043
Good on you for finishing your education now, then. You should become very familiar with it through this project, by the end of which it will in fact be an aid for Greek and Hebrew and in fact any other language out there.

>>22837022
You could get the Dumbarton Oaks vulgate

Is there a vulgate edition which provides the definition of words that appear less than 10 or so times in the entire bible?

>>22837038
Also, this is just my own experience, but I think the jump to authentic texts is a lot harder than with Greek and Latin. The Analects are an exception: those are really easy. Maybe Han Fei too. Most Chinese books really aren't the Analects or Han Feizi, though.
The reason I sequenced that chart like that is that Van Norden and Barnes are the only CC books that don't assume prior Chinese knowledge, and Barnes actually gets you reading some of the greatest Chinese poetry (though the curve is correspondingly very harsh.) Fuller and Rouzer then take you into reading all sorts of authentic texts, with all the headache and guesswork that can entail. Realistically, you can probably skip the first chapters of Fuller or Rouzer after Step 1, but the review might also be appreciated.

>>22837058
I have a Greek New Testament with a Greek-English glossary in the back. The print is really small but it's a fantastic edition. I'm sure there's something similar for the Vulgate.

>>22837058
Doubt it. Us guys learning the bible through latin will always be trumped by the chads learning in the original languages Hebrew or Greek having a multitude more wealth of materials to learn from.

>>22837058
If you're a fan of LLPSI, or even if you aren't but you've already finished another textbook, try Epitome Historiae Sacrae. It will improve your reading speed in the Vulgate by about two times.

>>22837078
Hebrew was not an original language. In fact, Greek was for the OT. There is disagreement about what the first language of the NT was.

>>22828773
Felicitas! Anno nova me par.

Equus meus parvus. Caput unum: De ano equi

>>22837172
Can you please use a trip? I’m very interested in the topic and want to make sure I don’t miss any of your posts.

You do contribute to Vicipaedia, right?

>>22837831
Ecce minime demens fautorum Equi Mei Parvi.

>>22835998
appreciate his effort but
>dat anglo accent

Currently on chapter 4 of Athenaze. I was doing the exercises from Μελετήματα, but they were consuming a good part of my weekends, not so much due to their difficult, but mostly because I of the amount of typing. Can I just drop this? How important was doing exercises for you to become proficient?

>>22838920
They are realistically not critical but they will make sure you are retaining everything you should, especially if this is your first heavily inflected language. Do them by hand.

>>22835586
Sentence cards, clozes etc are preferable to isolated words, though.

>>22836680
Not like the churches back when they still had a say in the matter, approved of unrestricted consumption of literature by ordinary people.

>>22838958
I used to use scanned couplets for flash cards for their mnemonic properties. I can take a photo of how this would work. Hold on.

>>22832365
it's good bite sized material that you can reliably do once a day compared to an entire chapter in Athenaze which would require at least 1hr+ of time. it also has a lot of vocab in easy context that isnt nested in 15 clauses

>>22829023
It's good if your dopamine addled mind can't concentrate on reading a book. So maybe all you can do. There are a bunch of other apps that you could mix in to practice.

Also I don't know what that other anon means, there is no paywall.

>>22837070
Zhuangzi is also pretty easy, as most of the time it's telling stories

>>22839293
Zhuangzi is easy language but not easy content. Still very true.
I guess CC is unique in that so many of its core texts are also among its easiest. Half of the sublimity of the 大學 lies in its clarity. Conversely, nothing is harder than a nothing pamphlet by some nobody Ming bureaucrat.

>taking a break from daily readings to drill vocab
>worried I'd lose all my skills
>see random latin block of text posted online
>able to read it fluently
feels good bros. I think I'm over the hump.

>>22839683
Time away from languages does sometimes drill them in. Sadly, some have nothing but time away.

>>22839683
Is losing one's skill in a language really even a thing? I've been sparsely studying Japanese for the past 10 years with pauses that last as long as 3 years. Every time I go back I only need one week to catch up everything and then start learning new things again.
Forgetting a language must only happen to people who never had a true grasp of it to begin with.

>>22839822
I spoke Portuguese with a partner long ago and now I can't even understand it except when spoken slowly. But I spoke Portuguese largely just by calquing from French, ergo very poorly, so you might be onto something here.

>cute girl in my university's classics club
>she's fluent in latin and greek
How do I impress her?

>>22840082
You won't pick her up by trying to outdo her at something she's extremely good at. Actually, that's not how one goes about picking anybody up. Be at ease with yourself and a good listener.

>>22839822
I wonder if having studied the grammar of the language has an impact on this. I've seen attestation of people who learned a language by just absorbing it as a child "losing" the language, but I don't know if I've ever seen someone who as an adult consciously learned the language and then lost it.

>>22840082
be properly autistic and discuss the languages with her.

>>22840140
This if she's the autistic type. But be sure to give her all the opportunities to talk.

>>22840153
I mean if she's really good at latin and greek she's autistic.

>>22840213
Not necessarily. There are also the rich types who have to do something prestigious somehow but must go into the humanities. That said I'm assuming you're in the US or Canada if your university has a "classics club," so yes, the autists vastly outnumber those.

>>22839032
Here's how I used to do flashcards

>>22829285
for what

>read any poet other than Homer and enjoy myself for a bit
>go back to Homer and wonder why I even bothered with anyone else
It's always this way

>>22840082
Compose poetry

>>22835256
yes hello big poetry fan here
(ask me about Old Norse poetry)

>>22835266
>and heavy prepositional uses which gives freedom
not sure what you mean here, but perhaps you have Greek in mind, which I know nothing about

>>22830877
>God of War
well, I hope you don't expect the real stuff to be anything like what you saw in that game

>>22840243
in the us the classics clubs are overrun by posers who read percy jackson and song of achilles and hate everything the ancient world stood for. They don't want to do the languages either and suck at them.

>>22840761
I am in the US, albeit reluctantly. These things vary.

>>22840793
That's a good point. I guess every club is different and it's hard to know any others. My school just has such a stark separation between people who actually care and those who more or less like a parody of the classics.

>>22840872
You can open a club and call it anything and the only thing that will make a difference is the standards you hold everyone to.

>>22840696
>not sure what you mean here, but perhaps you have Greek in mind, which I know nothing about
Greek has a fair bit, and Norse has even more. Prepositions let you relax cases and make a sentence as long or short as you want.

amabo te si amas me

>>22840956
Amo te <3

>>22840948
>and Norse has even more. Prepositions let you relax cases and make a sentence as long or short as you want.
??????

>>22841308
You can drop cases if you're using prepositions in some languages. For the sake of poetry, you can line up your meter by increasing or decreasing syllables by throwing in prepositions or taking them out. So for poetry, or even just trying to figure out what's going on in a sentence, prepositional languages are huge. Latin has them but they're not common until the medieval period. They're sparsely used in classical Latin.

>>22840320
Based. Homer is the pure spring of all culture.

>>22841312
>You can drop cases if you're using prepositions in some languages.
okay? that's not relevant to Old Norse, or any Germanic language, at all, thougheverbeit

Graduated from university last year. Now just read latin and greek on my own time, but am really missing the library with it's many resources and scholarly journals. Anyone know how I would be able to get access to a university library's classics collection again? I live a few states away from my alma mater so it's not as simple as going back

>>22840082
send her a nice epigram

>>22841666
Most university libraries let you check out books as a non-student. Any library close to you with a classics section will be good

How viable is it to learn Latin by reading something like Metamorphoses and for every word you don't know look it up in some dictionary and just keep going one word at a time without looking at any other resource for grammar or whatever?

>>22841972
>How viable is it to learn
>without looking at any other resource for grammar or whatever
good look not learning anything
you obviously need that foundation BEFORE you start reading
once you've got the basics of a language's grammar, you read, while consulting a dictionary
and that's how you learn

>>22841998
>you read, while consulting a dictionary
it's not reading if you need to look up every word.

>>22842002
yes, it is
you still read
you reflect upon what you read, and you 'obstacle', if you will, makes you learn, and it sticks with you
this is classical language learning doctrine
I don't see why /clg/ of all generals would object to it

>>22842008
>you 'obstacle'
your*
pardon my lack of proofreading

>>22835479
Why are you not responding my arguments above and in previous thread?
OT contains both Hebrew and Aramaic, also there are short documents written in other Kananaic languages (Hebrew imidiate relatives) from 1 milenium bc, they share certain features, which you won't understand causr you don't know neither Hebrew nor Aramaic (eg. ים instead of ין, use of ל instead of ד, and sound changes which are obvious to anyone who speaks both). There are also Aramaic loanwords in the Hebrew Bible which which coexist with Hebrew words from the same roots, eg. נדר and נזר.

Take your meds!

>>22842008
There is a very vocal faction here that insists only reading without a dictionary is true reading and anything else is a waste of time. Apparently you should know words through their appearance on the page alone, perhaps by osmosis. They aren't worth responding to and most of them don't know any classical languages anyways.

Just finished chapter 1 of wheelock.
I can't really make any sentences yet, besides >>22840956, but I'm working on it.

Please keep me in your prayers.

where my /proto-world/chads at?

>>22842229
I'll pick up on this. Hebrew is an offshoot of Aramaic. The early language you're talking about is just Aramaic. Aramaic is a big square and Hebrew is a small rectangle inside of that square that gets cut out later. Hence, Israel and Judah do not show up on maps before the Maccabean revolt. Israelis a classical invention.

>>22840956
Estne amor?

>>22842008
>>22842274
I mean I agree in the sense that you don't get the same fluid reading experience that you would get in a language you understand fluently. But you're still getting at the very least a solid % of the text's value, the images, the ideas, the feelings and the stories will still be there and even an imperfect experience of the sound/meter is better than nothing.
The biggest plus is simply that it makes the learning process pleasant, and this is also what triggers people who slaved over textbooks and flashcards and now don't want anyone else to get the "credit" for reading a classical-language text without suffering through all of that.

>>22841972
The Perseus website is the best resource for this because it gives you the actual lexicon entry but also breaks down the morphology for whatever particular form of the word you're looking at.

>>22842827
Puella non me laede, non me laede, amplius

Does anyone have any advice for learning the differences between quisque/quisquam/quicumque/quisquis/aliquis any other words that are nearly identical to these with incredibly similar meanings. Even if it's just a simple etymological trick that I'm missing, it would be super helpful. I just keep mixing them up.

>>22840761
What do you mean by 'hate everything the ancient world stood for'? Are you suggesting that classicists ought to hold ancient moral values?

>>22843119
Intus excita me (NEQUEO EXCITARE)

>>22843119
> Baby not hurt me
Barbare

>>22843157
no but we ought to at least not treat the ancients with disdain. Ancient moral values are certainly a mixed bag. These people are all critique and tearing down.

>>22843157
As >>22843471 said at the very least they shouldn't hold them in contempt. That said they should hold some ancient moral values, the values the West is founded upon, as should you and I. Things like justice, courage, piety, temperance and the importance of family are outright condemned and mocked by people who despise anything written pre-1960 because 'white man bad'.

>>22843133
I had this in my Latin bookmarks
https://dcc.dickinson.edu/grammar/latin/indefinite-pronouns

>>22843416
>what is the imperative

>>22843793
thanks a bunch, this is perfect

Anyone else use knowt? If so, how do you deal with spaced repetition just not working sometimes? It's very frustrating.

>>22843831
>>what is the imperative
Non dicitur "non me laede" sed "noli me laedere" seu "ne me laeseris".

>>22843793
>>22843133
I thought I was the only one having problems, thanks!

>>22834597
How did it go?

>>22843982
Ah, stultus sum. Ad studium Latinum redibo.

>>22836874
Nice graphic, thank you. I speak Korean and I already have a reasonable understanding of most traditional characters so I'll be starting with Chinese Poetry by Barnes and New Practical Primer of Literary Chinese by Rouzer as that graphic recommends.

I've also made it a side project to see if I can't use my existing knowledge of Hanja to create my own translation of an important work like the Tao Te Ching off of ctext, and hopefully master every character in the work by the time I finish.

Hopefully I actually maintain the motivation to do all that, but I have loved Hanja for a long time and want to go deep into it now.

>>22839319
>easy language but not easy content
How might it compare with the Daodejing regarding that difficulty?

>>22844204
Glad to hear! You're in a similar position to how I started CC, except with Japanese. I'd love to hear about your progress as you go.

>>22844213
Laozi is weird. The clause structure is fairly simple most of the time and yet the intentionally layered meanings and poetic modes of the text force me through all the possibilities that Chinese grammar presents at least as often as much more superficially complicated texts. To me he's the most difficult of the Daoists, and very rewarding.

>>22843119
Deliciae, non me nocere, non me nocere, non iam

>>22841666
My mom is a professor, so I get access through her. However, I've thought of paying a student for access. Think of it. You don't even have to be local. You could find a student at a good but not too good school, like Chicago, through Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist, or reddit and offer them $100 for a year of library access. It's no skin off their back.

>>22842782
Hebrew is not an offshoot. Actually do some reading. Both Aramaic and Hebrew or Northwest Semitic. They have both had influence on each other. They are separate nodes within NWS.

>>22845072
Exactly, but let's just ignore the guy untill he takes his meds. Are you a fellow semitcist, or just an anon who knows something about linguistics?

>>22845072
What's your evidence exactly?

>>22829004
https://libgen.li/ads.php?md5=156B2B209D0E1353A2DD287E36BB93FF

use this concurrently at least

>>22846145
ISHYDDT

>>22829004
>wheelock
ngmi

>>22846171
why?

Anyone here learned Classical Chinese directly, without knowing a modern east asian language first? I'm finding the learning curve very steep, mainly with all the characters, and wondering if it's not more effective going for modern chinese first

how do you say she killed him with his own sword? eius ipsius gladio? I'm worried proprio would read "with her own"

>>22846746
'her own' is where you'd use suum i.e referring back to the subject, 'eius' is good and refers to another, don't even need the ipsius unless for emphasis

>>22846746
eum gladio eius necavit (ea/illa)

>>22846717
Are you serious? Modern Chinese uses characters too, why would it be any easier to learn in that regard? The main thing that makes Classical harder, as far as I'm aware, is terseness/idiomaticity, not the writing system.

>>22846755
nta but is eius the proper genetive? would it not be "ei", and for feminine "eae"?

>>22846767
yes and it has to go in the genitive, you are saying literally 'the gladius of him'
also the genitive of is,ea,id is eius for all three genders

>>22846746
>I'm worried proprio would read "with her own"
It's a stronger version of suus, so it would.

>>22846765
The modern chinese material I saw seemed to be much more gentle-paced, although I only took a cursory glance at them. The Classical chinese textbooks I am trying seem to almost assume some prior knowledge of chinese, although supposedly they were for beginners. That's why I wasn't so sure how advisable it actually was to start with classical.

>>22845654
Not him, but for starter you can read the history of the hebrew language by Angel Saez Badillo

>>22846717
>>22846947
I hear you. Classical Chinese is brutal in the early stages regardless of knowledge of other East Asian languages. Sinographs are brutal in the early stages regardless of language. It will always be like drinking from a firehose early on. That's the bad news. The good news is that if you stick with it, I promise those characters at least will become vastly easier.
Van Norden and Barnes don't assume any modern East Asian language knowledge, which is why I put them in their position in the infographic. Barnes actually seems to assume a lack of Chinese knowledge. The pacing is however vastly different: Van Norden is merciful while Barnes is unrelenting. Both are difficult, since there's more to difficulty than pacing. Chinese is just hard, probably harder than Greek and Latin. You in particular might be interested in Victor H Mair's reflections on this at https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=24459
If you're interested in one of the modern. Sinosphere languages, Modern Chinese, Japanese, Korean, or even Vietnamese certainly can't hurt your Classical Chinese, but the characters will still be exactly as hard, and there is no point at which knowing how to say 吃飯了嗎 will help with Confucius.

>>22828773
Has anyone here successfully self-taught a classical language to the point of being able to read source texts? For instance, Latin to the point of being able to read Horace, or Greek to the point of reading Aristotle?

If so, would you share your learning texts and processes please?

>>22847106
Yes I used LLPSI and Latin an Intensive Course
You need to use anki in order to make fast progress

>>22847117
Impressive. Thank you for the information. If anyone has similar advice for Greek, I'd appreciate it.

>>22847145
Italian Athenaze, Logos: Lingua Graeca, Greek: An Intensive Course

>>22847180
Honestly I didn't expect an answer for one, so to get quick answers for both - thank you. I guess I have a few books to purchase and some work to do.

>>22847213
That's what this general is all about. Most of us have Latin or Greek or both. I have both though my focus is Chinese. Check out the FAQ. We still need guides there for at least Hebrew, Sanskrit, and Arabic.

>>22847213
Please download them from the OP mega file and work through either Latin or Greek for a few months before you buy anything
Language learning isn’t hard but you will quickly discover whether you really want to learn the languages enough to put in all the work

>>22847252
I actually took a couple of years of Latin back in high school to fulfill my language requirement. We used Cambridge Latin course. I didn't expect to enjoy it as much as I did, or I would have taken it all four years. My teacher even taught Ancient Greek to any who were interested after school, but I felt Latin Club was more than enough for me, and I didn't pursue it. You see, back then I had zero exposure to philosophy and had no idea how many incredible things there are to read in Greek - nor Latin, to be frank. I merely took it out of curiosity. Anyway, the two year program did not take us to the point of reading Virgil or Horace, and now it has been so long since I was practiced, I will be starting over. I recently read Horace's First Book of Satires, and I'm currently reading Aristotle's Metaphysics, and while reading both I just find myself wishing I could hear their original tone as it was. My point is that I'm certain I will enjoy it. I'm also quite sick of encountering my own plebiety when reading this scholarly work or that and they merely include Latin or Greek without translation or explanation and I'm left in the vacuum of ignorance without a clue for a light!

>>22847231
>Check out the FAQ
I will at that.

>>22847050
I tried both Van Norden and Barnes and I found Barnes easier to go through. I started recently learning so I only did a small part of each, but Van Norden starts with more uncommon words instead of basic vocabulary, and the sparser explanations feel less helpful than with Barnes. The philosophical and cultural context he gives at the end of each lesson are nice though. Barnes is certainly denser but I feel I'm doing more progress with it, the explanations and vocabulary stick more and the exercises really help remembering words (although I still can't remember most of them, specially at the pace of the lessons).

Also I'd seen that infographic floating here before and found it very useful, thank you for putting the effort to make it

>>22847389
Van Norden starts with the most fundamental words in the language for his domain, which is Philosophy. Barnes does the same for poetry. Different genres, both essential. The books complement each other in that way.

Emmanualis Alvari - De Institutione Grammatica, Libri Tres

Estne grammatica bona? Should one learn Latin grammar in English, or entirely in Latin through books like this and Ars Grammatica Donati

>>22846765
The main advantage would be that it's a related language that you can listen to children's songs and read children's books, talk to native speakers, read the morning paper etc. in. That said, it's not generally worth it to learn another language just for the sake of making it easier to learn the language you actually want to learn, unless there's literally no resources in your language for the language you want to learn.

>>22835256
I love poetry.

>>22835256
Don't let our pedantry fool you, for we are just a bunch of retards.

>>22848942
>Ars Grammatica Donati
Supposedly there are two of those, minor and maior. The first one is easy to find, but the maior is a hoax, it doesn't exist.
>inb4 schizo
Try to find it.

>>22849907
https://www.hs-augsburg.de/~harsch/Chronologia/Lspost04/Donatus/don_intr.html

Is the mega link broken? I can't access.

>>22850298
replace ' dot ' with an actual dot, remove the spaces

it's done because of the broken anti-spam system, I think I'll add it to the next OP because people keep asking

>>22845485
I'm a Semiticist, yes. I'm a bad one, but I am one. I've been a major slacker for years and years, but today, I'm going to try to read a few chapters of Ed Cook's new Aramaic grammar as a review.

>>22847106
Beautiful picture. Where is that place?

>>22850346
>>22850310
Well, we will continue to disagree on the medievelness of Hebrew and the originality of Aramaic, but if you want I think I may be able to hunt down some of those Syriac resources. I was able to find Thackstons grammar (it's okay but uses estrangela so I like it), Myraoka, and Syria.ac/grammar has Euting's Compendious Syriac.

trying to get into classical arabic by reading Alan Jones "Arabic through the Qur'an"

What arabic texts should I read concurrently?

>>22848942
Omnis anonymos, qui, uno lecto libro Orbergensis, sese student ceteris praestare cinaedis Quadricanalis lingua latina, saltem declinationem nominum verborumque coniugationem meminisse decet, ne veluti "non, infans, me nocere" barbaras scribant nugas, quae propriae sunt illis, qui casti aeterni erunt uno sine basio, nec librum unum latinum nec Caesaris nec enim Syrae legabunt. Super quidem haec memoribus nihil necesse censeo esse lectoribus, nec vero facile est tales in Quadricanale invenire.

Is this true?

So what is Latin good for anyway against the other big four? Impressing your boarding school buddies? Bad imitations of Greek masters? Scaring hoes away with Catullus' weird vagina metaphors? Getting molested?

>>22850677
Reading the majority of the most important texts in European history in either their original language or the language they were most commonly read in, for one.

>>22850677
What do you consider the big four? For me it's Greek, Norse, Latin, and Sogdian. Syriac and Aramaic may be contenders with Sogdian in a limited sense (they offer nothing that the others don't provide).

Obv Sanskrit is on a different level, with Avestan.

Why can't we kill off all Hebrew, Yiddish and Coptic speakers

>>22851172
The world would become too pure and good.

>>22850542
I can't understand this shit even with Google translate. Mind filling me in? I'm still learning Latin

>>22851172
שׁוּב אֶל־לוּחַ פּוּל

>>22829092
we wuzz dickwashers n shiet

>>22851172
שׁוּב אֶל־הַלּוּחַ פּוֹל

>>22851414
C'mon,you're looking at this and telling me it ISNT medieval??

>>22851430
Meds

>>22851430
רַק הַנְּקֻדּוֹת
גַּם >>22851442

>>22851442
I mean just look at it. The diacritics are hijacked at the same time the first rabbinical books were getting published ffs. Its so on the nose. Stop being a religious zealot and go start a religious thread if you're going to be like this. I mean it's obvious from your lacking MEGA link but still.

>>22851493
Good point. Have you considered a tripcode? I think it would really help you spread the truth about these things.

>>22851512
You're going to take the redpills and you're going to like it mister.

>>22848942
you should learn the grammar through english because you'll be given a modern approach to it which is extremely beneficial when you broach into linguistics and other languages.

>>22850548
Why is the Chinese poetry in its own script but the Sanskrit in IAST? (And IAST with some of the letters rendered in a different font, at that!)

>>22851163
By most counts, the five (note they said "other" big four) great classical languages are Latin, Greek, Arabic, Sanskrit, and Classical Chinese.

>>22851493
What do the diacritics have to do with it? Language is not writing.

>>22850677
In my limited experience, "what's it good for" has been the reliable credo of anti-intellectuals. Nice dubs through.

>>22852126
Don't give him more to talk about until he takes his meds.

Sometimes I wish I had learned Chess or Go instead of some of my languages. Weighing whether to make Sanskrit or 1dan in Go my resolution.

>>22852126
Writing is obviously a part of language. What a silly thing to say. The diacritics were lifted from late eastern Syriac, rabbinical writings emerge at a concomitant time. No amount of religious zeal will rewrite history.

Yawn.

>>22852197
Yeah I can relate to this
I wish I could devote myself to a creative hobby but the one that I want to do the most (woodworking) is one that I don't have the money nor space to do
Language learning is a free hobby

>>22850548
Wait so chinese is bad if I want non-boring stuff? I thought it had lots of esoteric content.

>>22852207
As someone who has experienced psychosis, I genuinely recommend you distance yourself from this subject for some time. It is clearly not doing you any good. Even if you are trolling, this is an alarming sort of trolling.

>>22852219
Creative hobbies are always more rewarding but also more painful, since one experiences one's limitations more frequently and viscerally and deals generally with either rejection, misunderstanding, or utter indifference from others. I wanted to be an artist of some kind but know now that I just don't have to constitution for it. I'll bet that's fairly common around here. Classical languages in particular are a near-zero vulnerability hobby.

>>22852225
I was just about to respond to that post. No, it's not true, and it's probably made by some edgy desi kid. Look up Li He, my very favorite Chinese poet.
Also, that original poem is far from boring in the original. The translation captures nothing of the imagery.

>>22852236
>states a simple fact of history
>anon spazzes out and feels threatened

Touched a nerve? Maybe stop being a fool.

>>22852244
Jeez, I understand that I'm not so tactful but that is a very ugly response. I hope you get better.

>>22850548
Medieval Chinese poetry:
公無出門
天迷迷,地密密,
熊虺食人魂,雪霜斷人骨。
嗾犬狺狺相索索,䑛掌偏宜佩蘭客。
帝遣乘軒災自息,玉星㸃劍黄金軛。
我雖跨馬不得還,歴陽湖波大如山。
毒虬相視振金環,狻猊猰㺄吐嚵涎。
鮑焦一世披草眠,顔回廿九鬢毛斑。
顔回非血衰,鮑焦不違天。
天畏遭銜齧,所以致之然。
分明猶懼公不信,公看呵壁書問天。

>Don't Go Out the Door, by Li He
>Heaven is inscrutable; Earth keeps its secrets.
>The hydra eats up human souls; the snow and frost break human bones.
>Hounds set loose, sniff, yelp, and hunt,
>Licking their paws, and partial to the orchid-girdled few.
>Then Shang-Ti sends his chariot, suffering's end,
>Bearing his gold star speckled sword of jade.
>I sit astride my horse and yet I cannot turn back again;
>On Li-Yang Lake the crashing waves seem great as mountains;
>Venomous dragons stare and agitate my fair steed's gold-ringed reins;
>Strange beasts and lions salivate, spit marking their domain.
>Pao Chiao between the weeds slept out his life;
>Yen Hui by twenty-nine was old and frail.
>Not that Yen Hui's blood was weak; nor had Pao Chiao offended heaven—
>Heaven feared what teeth might rend them: and therefore made it so.
>Clear as it is, I fear lest you still think me mistaken:
>Witness the man who raved at the wall and wrote his Questions to Heaven.

>>22852254
I don't see why you would come to a classics general then spaz out when knowledge of the classics are shared. If you want religious primacy, got to a religious thread where you can blindly agree with fellow zealots.

If I want to learn Italian and Latin, should I learn Italian first?
I am monolingual and so I wonder if it'd be more useful for me to break my monolingualism first?

>>22852291
Notes:
The central figure of the poem here is Qu Yuan, China's first named poet, who was falsely accused of conspiracy and court and drowned himself. "An orchard for my girdle" is a Qu Yuan-ism and a trope in Chinese poetry referring to outer beauty matching inner beauty. To Qu Yuan is also ascribed 天問/Questions to Heaven, a long poem entirely in the form of unanswered questions about the origin of the universe. Also a masterpiece and one of my favorite Chinese poems.
Bao Jiao was another martyr figure who retreated from a corrupt society to lie down beside a tree and die. Yan Hui was Confucius' favorite student who aged rapidly and died. My favorite section of the Analects details Confucius' mourning for Yan Hui.
The poem is a paranoid rant about the fate of the pure, in which Li He himself would share at the age of 27.

>>22852336
If you genuinely want to learn both, then Italian will be far easier. I recommend Assimil's course.
If you're impatient for Latin there's no reason why you can't do both at once, but it will take diligence.

>>22852346
I'm wondering if learning Latin first and then Italian will unlock some kind of 'Vulgarisation' instinct in me which will lead me to develop a deeper understanding of the language
I'm not impatient to learn Latin, I'm impatient to stop being monolingual

>>22852210
My life is so much better than this faggots, what a pathetic existence

>>22852364
Italian is a good first pick then. You will be able to read in short order and write in less than half the time than in Latin. Obviously you will have people to speak with. Italian seems like the go to choice. I always feel compelled to push people to the classics but Italian is just such a phenomenal pick. If you have started picking up Latin, doing a little Italian will go a long way and will not interfere, although knowing Latin first will probably not give you a speed boost.

>>22852364
No, it won't. Learning languages does not give you cognitive superpowers. I am natively multilingual and have been learning new languages since I was 6-7 and I certainly do not have superpowers. In fact I'm a pathetic fuck who hangs around here and reads the same poems again and again.

>>22852378
Yeah, Italians are also generally fun sociable people though there are assholes, and Italian literature is a great tradition that's usually not taught as much as it should be in anglo countries.

>>22852371
Being in Times Square for any reason is a pathetic existence.

>>22852383
>same poems
Are you just referring to the Tang anthology? Or do you have other particular favorites? Extensive rereading is based btw, good lad.

>>22852219
>(woodworking)
Buy a tool at a time. Start with a good knife. In a decade you will have a whole workshop. Buy quality. While having a dedicated space is nice you can get by with just a veranda or even a corner of your room, will have to clean more often.

NOVUM
>>22852407
>>22852407
>>22852407

>>22852110
I don't know why, IAST seems cooler to me. Maybe it reminds me of Baltic orthography, whereas Devanāgari invokes too strong an image of the modern indian people.

>>22852399
I saw a desert island books thread and realized it was more or less my reality. All I read anymore is the Tang anthology, Chu Ci, the Daoists, Homer, Pindar, the Greek Anthology, Arnault Daniel, Bernart de Ventadorn, Villon, and John Donne. I branch out sometimes but the vast majority of my reading comes from one of those I just rattled off.

>>22852419
Beautiful taste anon. You have a rare soul, your presence here is a source of comfort and inspiration to me.

>>22847106
you'll learn to read aristotle by reading aristotle