/lit/ - Literature

if that's his actual interpretation then it's quite retarded, but it's unwise to expect much from this gay, whose profession it is to convince people that he's making a philosophical point rather than making one. He's not a scholar of much, he's a good self-help guy.

>>22822000
>Peterson claims his favourite book is Brothers Karamazov
>Claims the meek in Beatitudes aren't actually meek, EVEN THOUGH THE FUCKING POINT AND MESSAGE OF BROTHERS KARAMAZOV IS THAT THE MEEK WILL INDEED INHERIT THE EARTH!
What a fucking retard!

lmao

>>22822000
Meekness is the regulation of anger to right reason. It would be unreasonable to never be angry, because there are some things worthy of anger. A man who is meek restrains himself from any passionate excess. Peterson happens to be right here, but he would have an easier time with his position if he bothered to study metaphysics instead of phenomenology.

>>22822282
Seems like an ethical concern. Wtf does metaphysics have to do with it?

>>22822278
WTF did Peterson mean by this

Who cares what this gaylord grifter thinks lmao. Next you'll be posting Ben Shapiro on my board.

>>22822344
they have to go back

>>22822282
>t. finished with the greeks
we're aeons past the golden mean argument in ethics, grandpa

>>22822323
The nature of man as a rational being. The definitions of power and reason, so on.

>>22823067
>Universal principles change

>>22822000
>how could a supposed scholar on Christianity misunderstand the beatitudes that much? Is he just an idiot?
I don't have any insight into whether his interpretation is "correct" or not, I just want to clarify that he is basically a Gnostic and not a Christian in the traditional sense. He doesn't seem to believe in the personhood of Jesus but like a "Christ consciousness" like freemasons. He talks about the alchemical reinterpretation of INRI: Igne Natura Renovatur Integra (through fire the world is reborn whole), which average Christians wouldn't give a shit about.

He clearly is more interested in the transcendent meanings of Christianity interpreted as myth, which supposedly all point towards individual enlightenment, rather than the Bible as an historical text.

>>22822123
This. It is really really bad. IDK how this is overlooked honestly.

>>22822000
wait.. did u really think meekness meant weakness? because they sounded alike? hahahahahahha

>>22823214
>quiet, gentle, and easily imposed on; submissive.
literally me. absolutely doesn't describe a "powerful person" who chooses not to fight

>>22822000
It's humble, not 'meek'. anglo translations of the past are sus

>>22822000
How does Peterson do it? He makes all the worst people absolutely seethe about everything he says. Racist chuds, NPC libtards, schizo trannies, vapid pseuds...all of them. He's amazing.

>>22823301
Next you're gonna tell me that when it says "the crowds" plotted against Paul in the NLT, that the original Greek actually says "the Jews."

Seriously though, it's crazy how little serious discussion there is about having a definitive Bible translation. "In the beginning was the Word" already loses so much meaning. But Christians (protestants at least) are just content with saying "these translations are more conservative, these are more liberal, pick whatever you like." It's like they don't actually think that it's the inspired word of God and that it matters that we get it right.

>>22823339
the whole point of the catholic church is to give a definitive interpretation. if you are a protestant, then you'll have to deal with varied interpretations and pick whichever you like

>>22822282
Phenomenology is a method of doing metaphysics, and Peterson studies neither.

>>22823345
I have an NLT Catholic bible right here and the translation is still highly suspect. I've heard the Douay-Rheims is the preferred translation for most conservative Catholics, but it still seems to be a blind spot.
And Translation is different from interpretation. You can have different interpretations of the text no matter what you read, but you're more likely to come to strange conclusions if you read a shitty translation. Even if everyone isn't going to be in agreement on what the original text MEANS, we should at least agree on what it SAYS.
And skipping that step and saying "just listen to what the Church says" is outdated since most Christians these days, protestant or not, believe that reading the Bible on your own is an integral part of the faith. And if everyone is reading their Bible, it'd be nice if people knew what Logos meant, and also that the word Ioudaioi means Jews (even if you want to interpret that as 'some of the Jews' or 'the Jewish religious leaders').

super simple.
the idea of reestablishing "christendom" as the glue that holds western identity together has some issues. see, it needs to be an empowering, energizing identity, not unlike how islamic fundamentalism has galvanized the middle east (into increasingly retarded positions).

the problem with trying to make christianity "based" "chad" and "tough" is that it goes against most of the text of christianity. how are we going to be tough warriors that don't take shit from others when the bible unambiguously says "the meek shall inherit the earth." the solution is to transparently manipulate the text through fabricated and contrived interpretation ("actually, the meek shall inherit the earth means the opposite of what you think it does")

it's sort of like how charismatic christianity needed workarounds for the explicitly poverty-worshipping text of the christian religion. so they say "actually, it's really for a camel to go through the eye of a needle...")

textbook example of "pure ideology." well, at least on peterson's part, charismatic preachers are obvious grifters.

>>22822000
like he is referring to a rizzed up thick cock chad who saves himself for marriage or channels all his sexual energy into creation and discovery

>>22823455
>Let's just ignore the 500 years where Europeans were the most dominant race on earth while all being Christians

Islam is also about peace and love and not hurting people. Muslims just get to say their religion is more unrestrained because Muslims are violent peasant sand people who haven't been buckbroken by rampant technological progress. You're guilty of the exact thing you accuse Peterson of.

Orchestrared discord tranny thread with precanned replies

>>22823468
did i imply that peterson invented this shit or something?

"pure ideology." any text can be manipulated to fit a needed ideological framework, especially if you're delusional about. 500 years ago spanish missionaries debated with great enthusiasm whether or not the natives had souls, and (after determined that they did) that their servitude helped civilize them. "pure ideology"--the need for serfs in new world latifundia created the headspace where suddenly you were doing these people a favor by enslaving them.

same goes for middle easterners today. islamic fundamentalism triumphed where (left-wing) secular arabism failed, even if to do so they needed to delude themselves as to the actual text of their religion.

they've had a go at it for some time and we can see how it's painted them into a pretty funny corner.

I GOT ONE
>DIE
>GO TO HEAVEN
>UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
>DIE
>GO TO HELL
>GET DEPORTED

>>22823455
Well said.

>>22823455
Good points. While I may have disagreement with your beliefs that Christianity is poverty-worshipping. I can still see that your point stands that the trad larping zoomers want to create thuggish violent white Christians who fight off the "degeneracies" of the system rather than moral God fearing Christians who discard material actions for communion with God and the zoomers version of Christianity(which is rehashed Islamism) goes against the very essence of Christianity.

>>22823483
I WONDER WHY REAL ESTATE PRICES HAVE QUADRUPLED THIS LAST YEAR

>>22823488
>I may have disagreement with your beliefs that Christianity is poverty-worshipping.
im being brief. people dedicate their entire lives to understanding the full body of text that is the christian tradition.
> trad larping zoomers want to create thuggish violent white Christians who fight off the "degeneracies"
transparent adolescent fantasies with a new (albeit totally unexpected) face. (i say that because, if you told me 15 years ago that catholicisim was going to have it's day in the sun in teenaged AMERICAN discourse, i wouldn't take it at face value--though maybe it helps that it's an american discourse, since the US has been unabashedly anti-catholic since day 1 and the "exoticism" of the whole thing helps.)

it's even more ironic considering how much emphasis the christian tradition places on mercy and forgiveness.

>>22823468
What is a dominant race? Progress ebbs and flows across all civilisations right now China seems to be rising a few centuries from now some civilisation in SA or Africa may be the new China. Roman pagans were also extremely influential during their time. The fact that material wealth comes and goes is what makes religions such potent tools of truth, if you were truly a Christian you would recognise that material dominion is not worth himan effort but since you are an ethno larper such ideas escape you

>>22822000
>this literal text isn't literal when it doesn't fit my purpose

peterson haters can go back to r word site. /lit/ has always been a peterson board

>>22822000
>Is he just an idiot?
Hello?

>>22823535
Look, I like the guy, but don't spout such bullshit. The man has been wrong on so many points, kikery being one.

>>22823535
the real jordan peterson never woke up from the coma

>>22823482
I just mean interpreting Christianity in an opportunistic way. And that's a fine answer overall.
I have no problem with the illiberal response in Western countries being Christian, rather I don't see any way it could be anything else. I don't see Paganism or new atheism inspiring anybody. I don't think *just* Christianity is needded, like it really doesn't say anything in the bible that describes our exact situation, at least I don't think so. I just don't think Christianity is so cut and dry that it will impede right wing reaction more than it helps it.

>>22823515
>Who cares that your civilization is collapsing and is being buried in immigrants? Just live in squalor and apologize for being sinful because the realm of the spirit is more important
And yeah, that's why I'm not a Christian. Or at least not a "true" one as you would say.

>>22822000
I heard he said that to him, the quote means "the l33t shall inherit my butthole"

>>22823538
we don't want you nazis in our threads. behind the mask is just hatred

>>22823515
>China seems to be rising

lol

Getting tired of the sola scriptura nitpicking on the works of Christ. I mean at this point Peterson and other grifters are better off compiling the works of Nietzshe, change some things around, cherry pick certain passages, call it whatever manifesto/testament/rules of life cringe. Then go on public tours to spread the message so the youth could stop playing video games and go full jihad to fight the evil wokesters or something. Get paid by powers that be, inspire the youth, fufill your political mission and everyone's a happy camper.

>>22822344
It's good and okay to be familiar with and discuss your enemies

>>22823092
Books to start with this?

>>22823277
>absolutely doesn't describe a "powerful person" who chooses not to fight
Why not anon?

>>22824121
But how will they larp as trads who are against the Machine. They need to make Christianity "based" and "redpilled".

>>22824199
Prior Analytics

>>22823396
Phenomenology is as different from metaphysics as subject is from object.

He is correct. Almost everyone with a gf is what I'd call a "gorillamaxxed" white guy. Quite rough around the edges.

>>22822000
Being meek because you have no choice isn't a virtue, its just weakness plain and simple
CHOOSING to be meek is virtue

>>22824121
>sola scriptura nitpicking on the works of Christ
Cucktholics and orthocucks cant understand hermeneutics

>>22822000
> He states that meekness means "those who have power but have sheathed their swords" and then reccomends on the Joe Rogan podcast that men be "monsters"…
Really it’s just that Peterson is a Jungian first and a Christian second. He believes in a Christianity which has been fingered through the Jungian tradition so of course it’s a necessity that a man become a monster for him because the process of integrating the shadow and moving towards God (who is himself a figure of such a duality with an “evil” shadow which he keeps in control) is the only effective way of working on oneself. The message of original sin and it’s redemption inherent in Christianity is likely what drew him, and Jung albeit in a much more measured handling for the separate ontological integrity of Christianity proper, in as it almost perfectly reflects the Freudian psyche in that regard. Peterson forgot the prudent hesitance of his master in the refusal to subsume Christianity as a subset of Jungianism and the rest is history

>>22824599
Once they start becoming the minority with the increasing atheism/secularism, they wont have to pander much and pretend to appeal to them. Christianity does not work with Enlightment ideals, that's what you have Communism and Socialism for. The Europeans were realistic about this, but America will learn the hard way either or.

>the bible says something like "be weak and let others trample all over you"
>christians (mostly those who are right wing and want to cling onto christianity as some kind of traditionalist link to the past) say "nuh uh, you misinterpreted the message. It actually means the opposite of what it says"

At some point you've just gotta take off the clown wig and admit chrisitianty isn't what you think it is

>>22823290
At least pageau tries to be reasonable

>>22825037
The idea behind Christianity is that this world is shit and makes people give up and give in and behave like shit, and the only way to restore balance is to restore faith. Restoring faith is done through acts of love, kindness and especially forgiveness. When we talk about faith what we're really talking about faith in the goodness of one another. When someone loses their faith in God, what they've really lost is their faith in other people, that they can trust anyone to not abuse them.
Loving someone, especially a monster, is extremely powerful in that monsters don't exist, just men who lost their way.
It doesn't come without risk but neither does any other act of bravery or noble sacrifice. If you think Christianity is about passivity, you misunderstood.

There is a video on YouTube about a man who killed upwards of 40 women. On the stand all his victims relatives scream at him and say they hope he burns in Hell for killing their loved ones. At the end a man comes up and says, you've made it hard for me, but our God asks us to forgive, so you are forgiven, sir.
Just like that the "cold hearted sociopath" breaks down into tears. His faith was restored by someone still being willing to forgive him despite killing their own flesh and blood.
Thats the power of Christianity. Protecting this world from itself by loving it no matter what.

>>22824857
>Blessed are not the poor who start that way, but those who choose to be that way.

>Blessed are not those born into hunger, but those who choose to starve for no reason.

Do you realize how retarded that sounds?

>>22825068
>what are monks
>what is lent

>>22825071
The point isnt that you couldn't do these things, but that Jesus is clearly stating the downtrodden, the poor, and the weak are blessed, many of whom are born into it.

>>22825068
Prosperity Gospelism. The true American religion.

>>22825089
The point isn't "you're blessed because you're poor" the point is "you're blessed because you learn there isn't value in material shit"

>>22825094
Not what I am arguing for at all. I do think giving up your possessions is the true christian way.

>>22825113
>Blessed are those who weep, for they shall laugh.

>>22825122
I don't think the emphasis is on giving them up or possessing a lot of them either way, albeit, to get rich, one has to put a lot of stock in materialism, so it probably doesn't help.
But I don't think it's about taking a vow of poverty. It's about never putting possessions above people. Being willing to be impoverished is more important than actually giving it all up.

>>22825128
Type in complete thoughts

>>22825136
Does it mean I should take a vow to weep? Or is it saying blessed are those who naturally end up facing much sadness in life.

Blessed are the Ori

>>22825146
Neither
you aren't blessed because you're facing sadness, the blessing comes in the form of the values you learn through it
just like the blessings through the values you learn from being poor. that doesnt mean: poor = blessing, or weeping = blessing like a math equation.

>>22825153
>Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.
Nah, they are blessed because the kingdom of God is theirs.

>>22825153
The blessing is the reward, which is the explicit promise of heaven.
11Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.
12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you...

>>22825163
By this reading, faith and actions and all that are meaningless, just be poor for a free ticket to heaven

>>22822000
He shouldn't have taken the vaxx.
For years he talked big about the importance of resisting tyranny, but when the time came, he cucked out.

Jay Dyer >>>>>>>>>>>> Jordan Peterson

>>22824835
Thanks.

I hate the "gigachad tradcath" faggots online as much as the next guy, but people who attack Christianity on the basis of it being "not actually gigachad" are just as bad. It's like you people can't actually picture morality outside of a basedjak vs chad gamer framing.
First of all, the purpose of Christianity is not that it's a kitschy lifestyle self-help program, it's that it's True. According to Christianity, the ultimate Truth is that this world was loved into existence, humanity is special and made in the image of God, and that the ultimate expression of the Good and the Holy is to love your fellow man—that is, sacrifice yourself. And naturally, when God showed himself to manbkind, he was a man just like them, and he was crucified. He didn't conquer all the nations and accrue a massive amount of wealth like Gilgamesh, because no finite amount of wealth in the world could mirror God's infinite value. Jesus died as a servant, having conquered infinite nations and peoples by creating a kingdom of the spirit.

So when people attack Christianity by saying Jesus is not a good role to follow, they show their immaturity. What is true strength—in practical terms—in our lives, if not self-sacrifice? Is loving someone and forgiving them truly just the easy, meek way, and not infinitely harder than getting revenge? Killing the part of you that wants what you want, and choosing instead to do the right thing, is the ultimate display of strength. Loving your wife, sacrificing for your kids, these are conscious decisions you have to make every day. Some people think they are doing these things, but they don't do it when it matters, i.e. when it comes into conflict with what their heart wants.

Christianity says the ultimate strength is to stoically accept fate as you are crucified every day. That is the test of truly great men. That's very different from "be a pussy and let everyone do whatever they want to you" but that's what you take away from it when you don't take it seriously.

>>22825068
It... doesn't sound retarded at all. (not him)

>>22825171
No, being free of the materialistic shackles that dwell deep within every human mind is a free ticket to heaven.

>>22823101
>i think the ceiling is 12 feet high
>you think the ceiling is 10 feet high
>we agree to settle on the golden mean, 11 feet
>instead of measuring and finding out you were right
wow, what a great universal principle

>>22825229
yes
the values
not being poor in itself
plenty of poor people are still materialistic

>>22822000
Peterson is dishonest and clearly deceitful. He cannot understand Christianity, since Christ and the entire gospel speak of how the Lord, through the most humble and simple of his servants, humiliates the powerful. Humility and recognition of weakness is fundamental in Christianity. Suffering is endured, but that does not change the fact that there is suffering, however, the burden is managed thanks to the grace of God and His grace is shown to us through His love for us.

I don't understand why everyone here has to have an extreme black and white view about Peterson where either he is the ultimate wise guru and if you disagree with anything he says you are either an evil nazi troll or a libtard commie.
Or he is an evil conservative chud grifter con man blah blah blah.
Jay Dyer's analysis of Peterson is better because he is very fair and nuanced and he talks about where he agrees with Peterson and where he disagrees.

>>22825281
>Or he is an evil conservative chud grifter con man
I mean, he is. His zionistic rant a couple of months ago did not helped him dispel that myth

>>22825301
>zionistic
I wonder what Jonathan Pageau thinks about this. I know he is friends with Peterson but Orthodox Christians are very anti-zionist.
Also I would assume (or hope at least) that Pageau is more redpilled on the "vaccine" than Peterson.

>>22825258
>plenty of poor people are still materialistic
Exactly. In fact, I'd even venture to say that there's a correlation on the group level. The poorer the social group, the more materialistic and machiavellian.
Historically, transcendent values usually came from the rich classes of various societies, the fruits of the aristocracy. Christianity is an exception to that, which I thing has given it a unique frame of reference that's very powerful.

>>22825216
Jesus Christ is the greatest man to ever walk the face of the Earth.

It's a weird feeling, knowing you're up next, and knowing you're not deserving of it, and that no one could ever possibly understand except you, because you'll sound nuts. I love each and every one of you with every fiber of my being.

Here is a good video explaining the Orthodox Christian view on zionism.
https://youtu.be/Xo_U-bH44bs?si=bPYtVCOjKzCYEIW3

>>22825408
I will check it out. But yeah, even when the apostles were still on Earth Saint Paul was clear about what he thought of the judaizers

>>22825056
Found it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb3C1QmmEd4

I've never seen these verses so clearly demonstrated before:

>If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat;
>if he is thirsty, give him water to drink.

>In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head,
>and the Lord will reward you.

>Proverbs 25:21-22

Yes, it's in the old testament too. I wish more people understood that.

>>22823455
Why do mentally inferior retards like this quote one Bible verse and think they fucking know anything? Jesus literally flipped a table he was so pissed. The entire point of Peterson refuting the verse is that he’s refuting this exact midwit interpretation of it because it’s something destructive to Christians. The original Greek translation is closer to “Lowly, pious”, implying humble masses who believe in god. This entire culture of taking a verse too far is extremely common throughout history, and while Peterson fumbled his new “interpretation”, he was not misguided in attempting to correct the castrating effect many adopt when reading the verse.

>how are we going to be tough warriors that don't take shit from others when the bible unambiguously says "the meek shall inherit the earth."

What a disgusting little conspiracy you’ve created for yourself. Any interpretation of the Bible that doesn’t immediately fit into your preconceived box can immediately fit this bill, it’s a really pathetic and cancerous way to stay totally fixated in a 2010 fedora atheist mindset. For every verse you find about turning the other cheek, you will find god calling men to wage war. It’s an extremely dense book of complicated pseudo contradictions and to claim ultimate knowledge of exactly how one should act is the height of absolute retardation. Claiming that others should behave in the way you’ve interpreted the scripture, based on a perceived ultimate moral authority is even more retarded. You should be fucking embarrassed.

>>22825441
When I first saw that, and realized what had actually taken place, it made me cry, too. God is good.

you don't get it mean when it says turn the other cheek it actually means punch him in the face, when it says the meek it actually means a serial killer barely holding himself back.

>>22825458
The way I read the contradictions in the Bible is in remembering that it's a book written by men and not actually written by God and to cite the book as justification for sin is literal idolatry. God's not a book, least not one written by men.

>>22825458
>For every verse you find about turning the other cheek, you will find god calling men to wage war
You lost me here
"Just war" is a spook

>>22825492
It's a book written by men
The Bible itself, is both an eternal tome of wisdom, AND a spook. Depends how you use it.
God said to use discernment and to avoid all idols.

He said to them, “When I sent you out without a purse, bag, or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “No, not a thing.” He said to them, “But now, the one who has a purse must take it, and likewise a bag. And the one who has no sword must sell his cloak and buy one. For I tell you, this scripture must be fulfilled in me, ‘And he was counted among the lawless’; and indeed what is written about me is being fulfilled.” They said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” He replied, “It is enough.”

>Luke 22:35-38

>>22825377
Amen. Truly he is the rightful king of this world.

>>22825253
Oh cool, let’s just go to Home Depot and get a justice measurer.

>>22825281
Peterson has never said anything worthwhile

>>22824894
Hes not even a christian. He literally doesn't even believe in the God of the bible.

>>22827666
Yes and also his interpretation of Genesis is very gnostic. He said that Adam before God created Eve was some sort of hermaphrodite creature.
He also said that man and woman are supposed to be equal and man isn't meant to rule over the woman. That is a contradiction of the Bible and traditional Christian teaching which always has had a hierarchy with man in the higher rank.

>>22827679
Oh and that reminds me, why do you think the Baphomet creature is a hermaphrodite and why this is a symbol of Satan?
It is a perversion of God's creation and destroys the natural boundaries and distinctions in nature, blending everything together.

GOD BLESS PETERSON, GOD FEARING CHRISTIAN, AMEN.

>>22827567
You've hit on exactly the issue here. We have a shared framework for understanding height, but not justice. The golden mean doesn't establish such a framework; instead, it attempts to mediate between frameworks via compromise. But this is silly.

If I believe killing all the whites in South Africa is just, and you believe nobody should be killed, then the "golden mean" between our position is killing half the whites. If you're committed to the golden mean as a metaframework, that's the end of the discussion. If you object to the "golden mean" we've discovered, then you have to retreat from metaframeworks back to frameworks.

Once we agree on a framework, we can argue within it and agree on a conclusion. But you can't skip the work of establishing a framework, and the golden mean is just one example of this problem.