/lit/ - Literature

Boomers need to be quiet now

>>22815152
>?????????
Use your big boy words next time you make a thread

>>22815152
just because he's a deranged hack doesn't mean it isn't true

>buildlets on suicide watch

If that retard wrote his grocery list it would get through a publishing house. He's a hack but a corpo favorite.

Everyone and their brother wants to create a cringe ass world and fantasy map

>>22815161
I love how "hack" came to your mind too

>>22815160
I'm pulling my big boy pants up.

>>22815152
Man, this eerie voldemort-looking pedo needs to shut up. Or people need to stop quoting him on 4chan so I don't get exposed to his crap, at least.

>>22815165
dark tower isn't supposed to be next to the elvenhome idiot they're meant to be aloof while the dark lord sends dark armies against lionguard

>>22815165
As they should!

No mappy no purchase

He's so buttblasted about Donald that he can't envision other's creatively thinking in their minds about anything else.

>>22815176
Noted!

>>22815165
This looks fucking awesome

>>22815152
World-building represents the D&Dification of the Fantasy genre. The focus foremost on setting rather than character, prose, plot, or theme, can only be explained by the influx of AUTISTIC sons of 35 year old mothers who cannot understand or conceptualize human emotions or relations, and can't write for shit. BRANDON SANDERSON has destroyed an entire generation of writers, along with VIDEO GAMES, ANIME and AUTISM. It should be no surprise that the current trend in the genre are so-called "LitRPGs"--a derivative of ISEKAI, D&D, and VIDEO GAMES, because these stunted shut-ins have no exposure to the world beyond the mediated glow of their computer screens and the musky back rooms of tabletop gaming centers. MAGIC SYSTEMS are the product of STEM AUTISM and are completely irrelevant to anything that makes a story worth reading. The entire genre has become one big MALADAPTIVE DAYDREAM. The only solace is that fantasy is falling into such disrepute that it can safely be consigned to the same bin as YA fiction and romance slop.

>>22815152
I wish this fag would retire

>Stephen
>King

>>22815244
The genre gave rise to the board game phenomenon. You outed yourself as an outsider with your first claim.

>>22815244
decapitalize those words

>>22815244
Calm down, Mr. Town Parson from 1804.

>>22815165
Where did you get this? I will sue!

>>22815249
Holy reading comprehension

>>22815244
I laughed, thanks.

>>22815272
It was a stupid post no matter which way we slice it. Blaming D&D made no sense, and really the degraded fantasy genre has negatively impacted D&D itself.

>>22815287
This Anon can't into feedback loops. This anon is retarded.

>>22815165
From which series is that map? It looks really cool.

>>22815152
Stephen Kings writings suck and are violent, gratifying pornographic trash. Guys a fuckin freak..not shocking to me at all that he can't understand world building as a concept. If you said "world destroying" I bet he'd get all horny though.
All the idols must be destroyed, they represent the Era of Hate. I can read a man's words and instantly decipher what motivates him; hate, or love.

>>22815244
>setting rather than character, prose, plot, or theme, can only be
All of those things and the setting are inseparable. A world that has no depth and no history, will have characters, prose, plot and themes that are similarly nebulous. This is just a basic tenet of fiction that far predates dungeons and dragons. The irony of your post is you missed all of that because you're an autistic idiot who thrives on contraries. Fix your personality.

>>22815419
Good post

>>22815244
Couldn't agree more
Slightly autistic nerds hyperfixates on world-building and internal coherence and make for really shitty writers for none of that shit make a good book

>>22815486
That can happen; but you also can't make a truly great book without world building. If it's narrative fiction

>>22815419
He's one of the best world builders there is though

>>22815518
I nearly spit out my Monster. Thanks for the laugh

>>22815165
Map is sick, and would read. I couldn't give to fucks if it's cliche so long as it's executed well.

The Sandersonite CRETINS have come out of the woodwork to defend their indulgent drivel. I don't care about the CRABS or the PLANTS or your DUMB MAP when your characters have no spark of humanity and only exist so they can FLY AROUND AND FIGHT. Authors worthy of the name can draw real human tragedy from just 20 pages of two people talking in a room; the modern fantasy "author" can't provide a glimpse of humanity from 1000 PAGES of the most APOCALYPTIC CLASH of GOOD AND EVIL. I recently attempted to get through book one of Sanderson's "epic" Stormlight saga, and was FLOORED when he had to represent how characters feel by MAGICAL EMOTION FAIRIES because he was UNABLE to convey it through BELIEVABLE DIALOGUE. THIS IS THE MAN WHO HAS THE MOST POPULAR LECTURE ON WRITING ON YOUTUBE. It is no wonder that today's young fantasy writers think CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT is synonymous with "LEVELING UP".

>>22815499
Good thing Dostoyevsky supplied Crime and Punishment with a map of Peterburg and described what type of wood Raskolnikov's axe was made of, such details have really made the book a classic.

>>22815244
>What if Tolkien was functionally illiterate

>>22815244
fantasy was never reputable, always considered slop for degenerates by most writers
however world building is also important for science fiction, a genre that's always been held in higher regard.

>>22815165
This would be great in the next Zelda game!

I prefer immersion to world-building.

>>22815605
>science fiction has always been held in higher regard than fantasy

>>22815244
>>22815546
sorry anon but I think you are wasting your breath on these fa/tg/uys.

>>22815165
This is a great map is it from something?

>>22815546
>and was FLOORED when he had to represent how characters feel by MAGICAL EMOTION FAIRIES

>>22815546
>CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT is synonymous with "LEVELING UP"

This is every single anime. I think of DBZ personally.

>>22815546
>>22815244
Champion anon

>>22815560
Relax fool. I clearly argued for balance and agreed with you that too much world building is similarly bad.
But OK bro you're the alpha dawg you're the champ you won. Everybody's clapping girls teddies are out the president just skrrted up

>>22815152
tbqh thinking about "worldbuilding" too much means you're thinking of a book as an entirely episodic thing and not something with a natural story. The kind of person who thinks too much about "worldbuilding" as the only reason they create would probably be better off making video games or tabletop campaigns.

>>22815165
>MASSIVE WALL: THE BREACH
lmao

>>22815152
Thanks for the further insight on how the Dark Tower series was utterly butchered King.

>>22815152
>I don't like this word or phrase, so it is bad and no one should use it.
Why are people like this?

>>22815244
completely true

>>22815244
Real and true.

>>22815244
>>22815546
Thomas777 is that you?

>>22815152
>FLOORED when he had to represent how characters feel by MAGICAL EMOTION FAIRIES because he was UNABLE to convey it through BELIEVABLE DIALOGUE
kek is this real?

>>22815152
I'd really like to know what he thinks the definition of "worldbuilding" is.

>>22815695
Take a deep breath anon, we can hear you seething from over here

>>22815649
yes, herbert asimov k dick sturgeon vonnegut etc are all held in somewhat high regard. what does fantasy have? tolkien and nobody else

>>22815821
kek

>>22815244
Based af take. gamers rise up (and throw yourselves out a window)

>>22815152
>worldbuilding BAD
>30 pages of kiddie sex GOOD

>>22815244
>World-building represents the D&Dification of the Fantasy genre. The focus foremost on setting rather than character, prose, plot, or theme, can only be explained by the influx of AUTISTIC sons of 35 year old mothers who cannot understand or conceptualize human emotions or relations, and can't write for shit. BRANDON SANDERSON has destroyed an entire generation of writers, along with VIDEO GAMES, ANIME and AUTISM. It should be no surprise that the current trend in the genre are so-called "LitRPGs"--a derivative of ISEKAI, D&D, and VIDEO GAMES, because these stunted shut-ins have no exposure to the world beyond the mediated glow of their computer screens and the musky back rooms of tabletop gaming centers. MAGIC SYSTEMS are the product of STEM AUTISM and are completely irrelevant to anything that makes a story worth reading. The entire genre has become one big MALADAPTIVE DAYDREAM. The only solace is that fantasy is falling into such disrepute that it can safely be consigned to the same bin as YA fiction and romance slop.
Robert E Howard probably did it first... in the current sense we're talking about.

>>22816181
>Robert E Howard probably did it first... in the current sense we're talking about.
To add, granted, it wasn't complex. He was a historical fiction writer, but got tired of it's constraints. So he basically recreated all historical eras we know of in a fictional primeval era where they all existed at once. But I think it's one of the best just for being so familiar.

>>22815152
Truly the Cervantes of our time

Rephrasing it with shit like "the conflict has to make sense within the setting" and "the setting has to bring anything original with it" would instantly solve the debate.

>>22815244
>BRANDON SANDERSON has destroyed an entire generation of writers
Calm down. Just because they're claiming to be writers does not make it so. Phonies trying, nothing more.

>>22815152
King doesn't like constraints. It's really no surprise that setting, or "world-building", would annoy him. I'd even argue he doesn't write stories but merely uses prose to explore horror.

Ah, yes. Steven King, who famously wrote The Dark Tower, which has absolutely no worldbuilding at all. Nor does Carrie, or The Stand, or Salem's Lot, or any of the other stories he has written.

>>22815152
He is completely right

>>22815152
This take is so brain dead, I'm going to write it off as attention-seeking. I know illiterates ITT don't know what worldbuilding is because this is /lit/ and therefore full of gibbering pseuds, but King is an author with decades of experience. He knows better, he's just baiting for engagement.

>>22815668
The genre is battle shounen.

>>22815523
>>22815203
>>22815380
completely braindead redditors are now browsing this board

>>22815165
This series was really cool, hit a lot of the tried and true trope notes in a way that was fun and engaging, instead of overdone and boring.
I just find the tonal shift between between the story arcs kind of jarring. Like book 1 played out very much like a YA young hero adventure fantasy, but then the during the Rajashi arc in book 2, the author went full horny and it came out of nowhere. And then he went all edgelord when they got to Gothmor in book 3. Like what neckbeard grimderp fans was he trying to impress with that Mount Death scene?

>>22815798
midwit spotted

>>22816756
>doesn't recognize kino when he sees it

>>22816569
because while those stories contain elements to build the world, ultimately the world only exists as a backdrop to allow the characters to pursue their desires
my big problem with the first book of the Malazan series is that it suffers from worldbuilding disease and wasn't all that character focused

>so there's, like, a tower, which connects the multiverse of my novels, with like, support beams, and you gotta pass through ALL the Sonic levels to get there
Bravo Stephen

>>22817477
Which is why "worldbuilding bad" is such a nonsense assertion. There are bad ways to execute worldbuilding, but almost every element of fiction has some level of worldbuilding, even if it takes place on modern earth. It's like saying "dialogue is bad, I hate dialogue" because the trend of quippy quirky marvel dialogue annoys you.

>>22815152
Who?

>>22815152
Rare Stephen King W

>>22815165
I don't see Maine

>>22815860
C. S. Lewis

Worldbuilding is a buzzword, like deconstruction or magical realist or dark academia. Like this anon says >>22817493 all books contain some element of worldbuilding, even non-fantasy. But the idea of "worldbuilding" has become far more prominent in recent times. As if being raised by cinemasins and Mythbusters and a culture of "ACTUALLY THE NIGHT SKY WOULD HAVE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CONSTELLATIONS HERE IN THIS SEASON" have taught us that stories need to be logically consistent and airtight, not surreal or dreamlike or puzzling. Worldbuilding authors jerk each other off over fictional languages while real languages like Gaelic and Walloon are dying instead of being preserved. While there's nothing inherently wrong with "worldbuilding" I certainly have a lesser opinion of someone the more they focus on worldbuilding rather than story or character or even theme.

King is a Leftist, and thus his soul is the color of human shit. He has no good ideas, nor has he ever had any good ideas, nor is he a great--or even competent--writer. He is essentially a male Rowling, an inept cuckold who thought he was better than Kubrick, when of course, he was not only not better than Kubric, but not better than anybody.

A shitblood. A cuckold. A typical American Democrat--though at this point I merely repeat myself. I look forward to watching him die during Trump's second presidency, hopefully in a painful way, and I will crab dance on his grave, and email his relatives to remind them that he was a cuckold and that maybe if he had worked harder, he could have been a quarter, maybe up to half as good as Clive Barker.

>>22818250
Kys teen, you are hundred times more faggot than king will ever be. Stupid nigger child, i bet you are mexican

>>22815152
Stephen King is a writer I really wish would retire. Not only is he sloppy and a pedophile, he has also become trite.

>>22816756
Soulless pseud wants realistic, smudgy monochromatic maps ad infinitum.

>>22818245
>I certainly have a lesser opinion of someone the more they focus on worldbuilding rather than story or character or even theme.
I'm not saying you have to be a #1 Tolkien fan, but to imply you have "a lesser opinion" of Tolkien due to the extent of his worldbuilding makes the value of your opinion of fantasy as a genre questionable.

>>22818250
Based, no wonder why King used to praise Rowling's Harry Potter so much (something that at best is an actiony boy version of The Worst Witch) hack unimaginative writers from the same media conglomerate (WB)
>>22818257
Mexican Y chromosome is over 90 percent European so, whiter than you most likely.

>>22818518
No, I have a lesser opinion of Tolkein because of how heavily his books rely on dialog rather than prose.

>>22815560
Typical faggy strawman, no one defending world building is arguing in favor of such autistic details.

>>22817491
>that map
Now I understand why King detests world building, he's terrible at it.

>>22815244
Dubs confirm this truth, however it does you no good getting so mad anon.
Let (man)children play their games and live your life, if fat autists like Sanderson are happy consuming their fantasyslop, let them.
It's all slop, we're here for the experience itself, not it's content. For content is relative, feelings are based only off themselves, this are the utmost basedness there is.

>>22817491
The bear beam points at the forest.
BRAVO STEPHEN.

>>22818245
>Walloon
>Place do Mârtchi
Looks like badly written French.

>>22818245
>Worldbuilding authors jerk each other off over fictional languages while real languages like Gaelic and Walloon are dying instead of being preserved.
Yeah, dude. If I'm going to use made-up gobbledygook, it's more stimulating to make up my own language with its own script, lexicon, and vocabulary rules than to rip off an entire other culture's language. Imagine that. It's not my job to keep the memory of some random french dialect alive.

>>22818250
Boy, election season really draws you losers out of the woodwork, huh? Don’t forget to kiss your mom goodnight for me

>>22818625
It still makes me chortle that the exact same people screeching "cuck" in everyone's face for 5 years ended up being the biggest cucks of all, still gargling Trump's nutsack after he threw them under the bus the moment they lost him the optics. No pardons!

>>22815546
>>22815244
Incredible post format

>>22815546
>characters feel by MAGICAL EMOTION FAIRIES because he was UNABLE to convey it through BELIEVABLE DIALOGUE
Which book is this? I could use a laugh.

>>22815287
>Blaming D&D made no sense
t. retarded faggot

>>22815860
>yes, herbert asimov k dick sturgeon vonnegut etc
lol

>>22815244
Saved and checked

>>22815152
It is he who needs to retire.

>>22818619
Why are you even writing a story with a made up language anyway? That’s fucking embarrassing bro. Nobody gives a shit if your elves or dwarves speak the ancient language of Barotok or Klierthlamor you fucking nerd faggot. Come up with something original instead of shitting your own shit onto the existing mountain of shit.

not reading anything in this faggy twitter screencap thread but have read cokehead king and he has absolutely no business calling anyone else's writing sloppy, lazy, or trite
fuckin ghoul

>>22815244
lol ok i read this too. the vast majority of fantasy, scifi, YA, is smelly garbage no better than romance novels. if you read it, be ashamed of yourself

>>22818956
The Way of Kings I would guess

>>22819474
Damn bro, change your tampon and cool it. Did a conlang fuck your mom or something?

>>22815244
based and saved

>>22815546
saved this one too

>>22815165
>Vikingheim is not near Azgard and place too cold

The strength of fantasy is in the fantastic, depicting something unreal that could be. You don't need a fantasy setting if you want to depict a specific theme. What is it that you want to depict? Build your story around it. World builders want to depict a world that isn't ours.

>>22815165
Gotta love how the shitty Dragon Tail is just Italy. Real life is much more interesting than this crap.

>>22816873
did you look in a mirror?

>>22815244
Best thing I've read today, thank you

>>22818518
Tolkien did autistic world building correctly since he left most of it out of the books where it didn't belong. He didn't build his world with the story, he built his world and then told stories in it.

>>22815546
have an updoot, my nigga

>>22820289
>Tolkien did autistic world building correctly
>He didn't build his world with the story, he built his world and then told stories in it.
That is literally the behavior people are criticizing when they criticize world building as a concept.
I think it's a misplaced criticism, but when we have people bitching and moaning about "world building" it's the exact same shit Tolkien was praised for.

>>22818245
>>22820289
I hope these aren't the same anon.

>>22820336
Wrong. Criticism of world building comes from the recent trend of people writing a story simply to showcase how cool they think the world they've built is. These stories find excuses to tell the reader more about the world at the expense of ever other aspect of storytelling.

>>22815165
But this is awesome

>>22820350
And why do people care? If it's garbage most will ignore it. Now if they're bad at storytelling and see the autists with a passion for cartography and philology getting more attention for their shitty maps than them it's no wonder they're getting upset.

>>22820350
Give me some examples of this. We literally have people in this very thread complaining about conlangs.

>>22820350
Bro you're describing bad storytelling. The worldbuilding is irrelevant to the quality of the narrative if the narrative is bad.

>>22820368
Jujutsu Kaisen.
Pick any self-published litrpg.
>>22820371
Yeah, no shit. The criticism generally isn't that world building is bad. The problem is that modern consumers of the genre I like think that world building on its own is enough reason to make a book moderately successful which make it hard to find the kind of books that I like since so many of the spaces I look for books are filled with people recommending autistic garbage.

>>22820389
Oh. Your only examples are a single manga and literal fanfiction tier slop written by amateurs. This makes the complaints about worldbuilding even pettier than I thought.

>>22820397
Like I said, the problem is that the fanfiction tier slop gets popular enough to get it mentioned alongside stuff actually worth reading.

>>22815546
>>22815244
>>22815152
All these are true

>>22820416
Call me a snob, but I do not consider unedited self-published work by amateurs worthy of the same discussion as traditionally published material that is held to a higher standard.
If I see complaints about worldbuilding from famous authors, pop fantasy reddit boards, and 4chan schizos on /tg/ and /lit/, naturally one would get the impression this "worldbuilding problem" is endemic in modern fantasy literature. But what's that? You mean you're just talking about "fics" posted by literally whos on royal road? Well fuck, we might as well start threads complaining about poor grammar and punctuation in fantasy and if anybody asks what the hell we're talking about, we can snivel "I-I mean in fanfiction... But it's really popular fanfiction!!"
Yeah no shit, the quality is subpar, it isn't subjected to the same editing standards as professionally published work. The reason your most readily available examples are amateur litrpg """fics""" because if they were subjected to professional editing with intent for commercial publishing, the "worldbuilding" (in actually, just self-indulgent tangents irrelevant to the narrative which isn't exclusive to fantasy) would have been axed by the editor and left out of the print.
What a useless criticism, King is a hack.

>>22815152
Looks like an insane take but honestly a fair one. The story should be about the story, not about showing off the world you thought of.

>>22820593
>The story should be about the story, not about showing off the world you thought of.
That's not what his take is and true examples of the concept you're describing are so few in mainstream published fiction, it's about as controversial as declaring "A 15 page description of food poisoning diarrhea is not necessary for a good mystery thriller."

This is true of every quality people attach to story telling. Any writer who loves his work and has become proficient in it doesn’t care about midwit shibboleths like world building, character development, symbolism, etc. The story simply becomes what it should be after countless hours of introspection and revision. Good writers start with an unrefined notion for a story and then both creatively and logically expand from there. Anyone who goes about writing by having some checklist of required qualities from the outset is ruining it.

>>22820622
>giving names to describe basic aspects of creative writing are "shibboleths"
Ironic use of midwit.

I say let people do their thing and see what sticks. (YouTuber and fantasy author) Shad Brooks said that editors won’t let you (and you shouldn’t anyway, according to him) start your book with long lists of genealogies like Tolkien did and as a result modern books are “better” (again according to him), rather you should always start your book with a “hook” (::rolleyes::) in order to get the (zoomer?) public interested, and so editors will force you to do that. But doesn’t that just lead to cookie-cutter, formulaic writing? What if there’s a market for autistic genealogies? I say let a thousand flowers bloom.

>>22820657
This is why I think this conversation about fantasy worldbuilding has nothing to do with worldbuilding, it just comes down to whether or not the execution of your narrative is engaging. This idea of a fantasy story with all worldbuilding and no story is almost non-existent.

>>22820532
>Call me a snob, but I do not consider unedited self-published work by amateurs worthy of the same discussion as traditionally published material that is held to a higher standard.
Neither do I. That's literally what I'm complaining about. The genre spaces are starting to take those books as seriously as any other work and it's shitting everything up.

>>22820699
Which genre spaces?

On that topic, what are some books with good world building (excluding Tolkien) and for comparison’s sake what is a book with bad world building? I would like to know so I would get an idea of what to do and what to avoid (in case that writing project finally gets off the shelf). Thanks.

>>22820721
Sffg, sff reddit, YouTube, and various popular general spec fic podcasts. I'm sure there are smaller, more niche areas where this isn't becoming a trend, but I don't like the direction the larger spaces are heading.

>>22815152
He's right.

>>22820734
If your reader is wondering what the point of a worldbuilding element is, the context of the element has likely been so divorced from the narrative that it is coming off as a meandering tangent from the narrative.
Most instances of "bad worldbuilding" are bad execution of worldbuilding which can be fixed by giving the element purpose or brevity.

>>22815244
>BRANDON SANDERSON
Has zero influence on fantasy let alone the litrpg genre you are complaining about.

>>22815152
>>22820734
>>22820760
>>22815152
There is no such thing as world building. It's all the unconscious of the author.

Only idiots take books literally.

Just going to kill the holy cow here that people are using as a defence of worldbuilding: Tolkein's worldbuilding sucks. Even the most erudite worldbuilder could barely create something that's not just medieval Europe with elves and magic.

>>22820639
Those basic aspects are really just tools of cheap replication used by people who have zero natural talent. Shakespeare never sat back and thought to himself “but how much has Hamlet DEVELOPED so far?”

>>22815546
>Authors worthy of the name can draw real human tragedy from just 20 pages of two people talking in a room
Name one. You won't because you will be laughed off this site.
And again, the fact that you believe some random nyt /lit/sff-core author has influence over isekai, korean young adult fantasy, vmmorpg novels, xianxia, litrpg et all is just sad.
1.8 million views from 99.99% non authors. Real authors get their ideas from other books.
>>22815668
You are retarded. Dragon ball z has plenty of character development and none of it has anything to do with getting stronger.

>>22820780
Fictional worlds don’t really exist? Woah.

>>22816179
worldbuilding BAD
30 pages of kiddie sex Better

>>22820532
>traditionally published material that is held to a higher standard.
Hilarious that you believe this. That is just advertising for publishers.

>>22820799
Your naivete regarding the writing process is precious. Childlike, even. You think Shakespeare shat out a perfect play every time with no consideration, outlining, or editing? You think he just wrote from his perfect brain to perfect hand line gospel. Embarrassing.
But regardless, whether or not something is conscious doesn't make it real or not. That's like saying beginnings and ends don't exist, because [famous author] didn't arbitrarily announce aloud "AND HERE I END MY STORY."

>>22815244
Related

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/a-problem-with-rpgs-rpg-developers-are-not-well-read-in-myth-and-fantasy-sci-fi-literature.148440/

>>22820802
They really don't. You need to uncover.

Moron autists get stuck in the cave.

>>22820825
In terms of editing, yes it is. Meanwhile, you can shit out a litrpg on rr with no oversight. That is my point.

>>22820780
>Only idiots take books literally.
wtf are you telling me fiction is fictitious??

>>22820842
Not at all. It's real: it comes from reality.

But is distorted.

>>22820838
No. Your point was that not getting a checkmark from a publisher somehow makes a work unworthy of discussion. The editors only job is to make sure that the expectations of retards like you are fulfilled. If litrpg isn't "in" then they won't publish any litrpg book, if it is "in" they will.

>>22820838
If someone mentions a novel it is by definition "worthy of discussion" A rr novel that has more than 1000 views on chapter 2 is worth more than 99.999% of published novels.
I don't understand how you can live with yourself believing that an author wants to write A, but the publisher made them write B and that's better because there aren't as many typos and nothing too edgy.

>>22820831
First off, drop the faggot language so I can respect you. My argument was not that Shakespeare got everything right in the first draft. My point is that the average writer approaches their own work in a shallow and generic manner. A writer looking at his story and pondering questions like “what about the development though?” instead of taking the whole story and evaluating every macroscopic and microscopic element repeatedly would be like Newton reflecting on his work on Kepler’s laws and asking a question as useless and shallow as “but what about the math?” instead of asking something like “does this derivation correspond with similar findings and does this specific change in the formulation imply physical consequences that have not been verified?”

>>22820856
>The editors only job is to make sure that the expectations of retards like you are fulfilled
Wanna know how I know you've never worked with an editor and don't know what their job is?

>>22820898
>First off, drop the faggot language so I can respect you
You respect is worthless to me. Floss with my ass hairs.

>>22820892
>I don't understand how you can live with yourself believing that an author wants to write A, but the publisher made them write B and that's better because there aren't as many typos and nothing too edgy.
Why do I even bother, when your reading comprehension is this shit?

>>22820785
>Tolkein's worldbuilding sucks
Your strawman of Tolkeins world building sucks, but that's about it.
>>22820833
Such a retarded OP. I'm reminded of a particular English teacher who was aghast about the lack of the average mans literature knowledge (in the late 1800s) and that none of his pupils could recite the "eternal classics" like the Iliad.
>>22820899
That's there job as near book from any given publisher reads the same and follows beats as other books in their catalog. Please post your cope though, I'm sure it's interesting.
>>22820910
You have no argument to be read.

>>22820913
>That's there job as near book from any given publisher reads the same and follows beats as other books in their catalog. Please post your cope though, I'm sure it's interesting.
No cope necessary. The editor works in the interest of the publisher. It costs money to print pages. Unless you are already an established mainstream author with a guaranteed buyer base to hang on your every word, you have to justify every page of your work. If you waste space on directionless fluff (the main criticism of "worldbuilding" I'm addressing), the editor will cut it to save the publisher money. This is why the "worldbuilding problem" people complain about here solves itself through traditional publishing and why it's such a problem for amateur slop posted on RR.

>>22821039
>It costs money to print pages.
It's negligible compared to the cost of the book. Your argument has been destroyed by this point alone. Besides, most xianxia that gets translated was published. And besides besides, there are plenty of online only publishers.

>>22821047
>It's negligible compared to the cost of the book.
Not when printed at scale. It adds up and there is no guarantee the book will sell, so a publisher isn't going to take a gamble on an unestablished author's 1000 pages of pointless wank if a cohesive narrative can be cut out of it for 400. This isn't an "argument", I am explaining to you what an editor does.

>>22821060
Your theory makes no sense. Almost all published sff books are filled with fluff, people want to feel like they are getting value for money, how often do you see a <100 page book being sold for over $50?

>>22815244
A persons upbringing, environment, education and personal beliefs all influence not only what one creates but also what one sees in others creations.
Two people with complete opposite worldviews will find different things to enjoy and find inspirational in the same body of work.
Or more simply put, if you want better writing in entertainment dont let women write.

>>22821067
It's not a theory. Again, I explaining to you the editing process for new authors.
>how often do you see a <100 page book being sold for over $50?
What does that have to do with a 400 page book being sold for $35? That's the last page count and price of the last book I bought from B&N. That's more a publisher's comfort zone.

>>22821090
>$35
My bad, closer to 25-30.

>>22821047
>It's negligible compared to the cost of the book. Your argument has been destroyed by this point alone.
>Your argument had been destroyed by my ignorance of economy of scale
sksksksksk

>>22815152
Didn't Stephen King come up with the term pantsing tho?

>>22815165
10/10 would read

>>22815486
>world-builders are bad writers generally
Not only false (emm... Tolkien???), but worldbuidling can be used for many more things than just writing a story (ie: videogames, comics, animated series, etc.), being its own creative endeavor altogether.
>>22815546
>I don't care about the CRABS or the PLANTS or your DUMB MAP
Calm down your autist, the fact that you didn't enjoy reading about all that doesn't man nobody does. I enjoy reading fictional history and biology.
Have you ever considered that it's a matter of taste?

>>22815165
>GRRM wants to know your location
>>22815176
Idiot, the dark lord was of elven origin, but his hatred for humanity consumed him, while other elves generally don't fucking care about jewmans.
He was just too autistic and racist so he went all dark magic and shiet

>>22821117
Books are not an example of economies of scale retard, you have a print run, then another print run if there is demand.

>>22821193
>you have a print run
And printing 2000 copies of an 800 page book costs twice as much as 2000 copies of a 400 page book. Do you understand why printers are incentivized to trim the fat?

he's right. no one cares about 100 pages of exposition for something you lifted indirectly from Tolkien.

>>22821215
No it does not. The vast majority of the (non recoverable) cost is in the print run start up, and you usually only get discounts after a certain number of pages, not books.

Why does Steph King make /lit/ seethe so much?

>>22821229
I just think it's funny that the pedos on the pedo site call the widely acclaimed author a pedo as an insult.

>>22821221
Where is he saying that in the tweet?

Do you think he's read it?

>>22821237
ok pedo

>>22821244
it's self explanatory. non-retarded people can get the context out of something without a wall of text carefully going over every little bit of autistic detail.

>>22821283
My all means, educate me on how "Worldbuilding should be retired as a phrase" relates to "100 pages of exposition for something you lifted indirectly from Tolkien."

if the author enjoys worldbuilding then why should they avoid it?

>>22821296
why? so you can keep arguing like a retard about it? my point is clear to anyone who has read any genre fiction novel in the last 3 decades.

>>22815165
Anyone remember picrel from when they were a kid? Similar vibes. Very comfy as well

>>22821367
You can't. Because he's explicitly taking issue with the phrase worldbuilding. It has nothing to do with exposition or Tolkien.

>>22815244
Verse>prose>macro-aesthetics (which world building should be for the purpose of)>theme>Character=plot

The focus foremost on plot and character rather than conceptual and formal style can only be explained by the influx of MELODRAMATIC LOWBORNS of peasant mothers who cannot understand or conceptualize conceits or rhythm, and thus can’t write for shit. HEMINGWAY and DOSTOEVSKY has destroyed entire generations of writers, along with HIPPODRAMA, BALLADS and MOVIES. It should be no surprise that the current trend in the genre are so-called "literary fiction"--a derivative of CONFESSIONALS, AUTOFICTION, and MELODRAMA, because these stunted shut-ins have no exposure to literature beyond the mediated glow of their high school and university REQUIRED READING, and the musky back rooms of movie theaters, “CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT” is the product of AMATEUR PSEUDO-PSYCHOLOGY and IS completely irrelevant to anything that makes a page worth reading. The entire medoum has become the MASSY CONGERIES of VANITY, The only solace is that fantasy is foolish enough that it maintains an IOTA of the traditional heroic strain due solely to naivety, raising its value at the least ABOVE the bulk of YA, literary, and other sundry contemporary bibilo-mooncalves.

>>22820785
Blake is far and away the best popular writer in terms of world building, creating an entire religious cosmology which is comparable in depth and detail to proper Gnostic religious sects and in many cases more detailed, is far greater a feat, and it is undoubtedly exotic, strange and aesthetically pleasing, but even ignoring Blake, why isn’t caroll brought up? By no means is Alice in wonderland just Europe. Something like worm ouroboros I would also say is a far superior world.

>>22815244
dubs of absolute and undeniable truth

>>22815152
even a broken clock is right twice a day

>>22815244
Posting for this legendarily based post.

>>22815244
based

>>22815152
Worldbuilding has problems. Every nerd has his own fantasy world, but so few nerds are able and actually try to make good stories in those worlds.

>>22815165
Who breached the wall?