/lit/ - Literature

>>22764587
I want to read The Bible but I cannot understand Christianity. I am not from the West, so I have absolutely no idea what's going on.
What are all these different types of Christianity? Catholic, protestant, Orthodox, latter-day saints, mormon, judaism?
Why are there so many different versions of The Bible?
What the hell is Apocrypha? What is Deuterocanon?

>>22764606
What is Old testament and new testament?

>>22764606

This is because over the past two thousand years, the church has entered into many different nations and empires. (Eastern Rome, Western Rome, the germanic nations, the British empire, etc.) The different priestly classes of those nations have argued with each other over centuries of what the true interpretations are. However, most of the old denominations are in 95% agreement about most things.

As for LDS/mormonism and other recent movements, those are born out of weird american heretical fervor of the 19th century. A lot going on there with weird hoaxes and false prophecies.

The different versions of the Bible are simply different translations into English because the original texts were written in Hebrew and Greek. Over the centuries, different translators have different philosophies of how best to translate the Bible into English, but very few translations actually differ in meaning from one another--mostly just phrasing. (Jehovah's Witnesses, a cult, have their own translation of the Bible that actually changes the meaning of particular verses related to their heretical doctrines.)

The apocrypha were texts that were considered for canonicity by the church but ultimately deemed not part of the core apostolic inheritance, regardless of how profitable they are.

The Deuterocanon were a small collection of texts that were part of the septuagint (greek translation of the Old Testament) but not part of the Hebrew Old Testament. Their history is somewhat unclear - how'd they get in there? They were not referenced by Jesus, the apostles, and the New Testament authors unlike the rest of the Old Testament books, so it's debated whether they are authoritative or not - Catholics lean yes, Protestants lean no.

>>22764606
I'm skipping the question about defining religions.
Bibles differ in translation, and in canonical books. The differences in translation are the same with all translated works, some translations may be done under literal accuracy, others try to translate the meaning instead.
Christians denominations have slightly different canons. However, these books aren't all that impactful, the differences in canon aren't due to central dogmatic matters.
Apocrypha are books not considered part of the canon. Deuterocanon is the "second canon", books considered to be part of the Bible by the Catholics and Orthodox, but not by Protestants or Rabbinical Jews.

>>22764613

The old testament is the collection of scriptures written by the ancient prophets and historians of Israel. They were written in the thousands of years leading up to Christ's birth, in the context of the Israelites having to deal with different ancient near eastern empires - Egypt, Assyria and Babylon, especially. The new testament is the collection of scriptures written by Jesus' disciples and first followers, who were struggling with the established rabbinic authorities in Roman-occupied Judaea and with hostile pagans.

>>22764587

It's interesting that at the beginning of Matthew 5, Jesus calls on his followers to let their light shine before men and let others see their good works. But at the beginning of chapter 6, as the sermon on the mount continues, he charges people not to do righteousness just to be seen by others. The key difference seems to be that those who practice their righteousness out in the open should do so in order to bring God glory (5:16); if it's just going to be about drawing attention to yourself, do it secretly.(6:1)

>le skydaddy book

What parts of the book of Mormon should I read to learn about the culture of ancient Lamanites?

>>22764804

big if true

I'm onto the second book of Kings. I like the stuff with Elijah and Elisha but I have to say I'm not feeling any faith so far from the Bible, it just feels like stories with no lessons apart from 'Fear God, do not worship other Gods'.

>>22764930

Most of the Old Testament is simply the record of the lineage of Abraham and how they variously betrayed or turned back to God. Ultimately, this lineage culminates in Jesus, who is the fulfillment of the covenant promises God made to Abraham. The Psalms and wisdom literature contain much more emotional and psychological content than the historical narratives.

If you're looking for specific moral lessons, the gospels and epistles of the New Testament are much more theological and didactic in nature.

>>22764980
I thought as much, I still find it interesting but I was hoping for it to be more theological and less historical pseudo-historical if you will.

>>22764587


>Matthew 6:19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

I think modern middle class life is incompatible with this teaching from Jesus. Sure, maybe not all financial planning is wrong, maybe it's not always unethical to save money, but looking around me all I see are people who care about laying up for themselves treasures on earth.

I read the last few chapters of 2 Kings today and started on 1 Chronicles. I've been making my way through the OT with only a brief break after Judges. I'm planning to take a longer break after 2 Chronicles and start with the prophets in the new year.

It's been a wild ride, honestly 2 Kings was great, full of battles and sieges and treachery and character-defining moments and classic stories. Probably my favourite book since the first half of Exodus, and perhaps the one I felt shared the most values with the NT.

I read the whole NT in the NIV and then read the NSRVue from Genesis to Judges. I have a hard time staying engaged with the OT compared to the relatively easy reading and tighter pacing of the NT.

>>22764606
>What the hell is Apocrypha? What is Deuterocanon?
These are the same thing, just books of the Bible. Denominations that think they aren't inspired by God call them "apocrypha" and the denominations that do think they're inspired by God call them "deuterocanon."

>>22764672
I thought Christianity started with Christ. So how can you have the Old Testament written before Christ?

>>22764606
>Catholic
The church is god. Man should worship the church.
>Protestant
Man should connect to god himself
>Orthodox
Man should strive to be saintlike
>Latter-day saints
Different name for Mormonism. Some scientology-tier bullshit made by a conman in the 19th century. Not real, a cult. Something about magic underwear and you inherit a whole planet all to yourself when you die. Man should rake in cash from suckers.
>judaism
Man should follow a set of very particular rules.

I have been thinking about translating the greek bible and incorporating the non canonical gospels into it, like a sort of deluxe version of the bible.
Of course i will keep the entire work for myself and i will never publish it, just some some more scrapping work and i should be done.

>>22768564
Which one closest resembles what medieval (9--13th AD) west Europeans followed?

>>22768644
Those were literally all Catholics. The others were invented by or after Martin Luther in the 16th century except for Orthodoxy which is a Slavic variant from the 11th century, and is close enough to Catholicism that they recognise each others' sacraments.

>>22768979
>Slavic
Greek

>>22768515
>I thought Christianity started with Christ.
Are you some kind of retard?

>>22764587
This is a friendly reminder to /lit/ that eternal life is the free gift of God with no strings attached. if you want to receive it, live forever, and be 100% sure of going to heaven, watch this gospel video. Gospel means good news. It's easy to be saved from hell fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf3uF0juIVI

"Once Saved Always Saved" - a MUST WATCH sermon for people who are doubting their salvation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4Wgx-WYntY

>>22769755
> "Once Saved Always Saved"
Catholic Church and Lutherans say no.

>>22770134
Catholics are not Christians since they believe in work salvation (a false gospel). Lutherans are not Christians since they believe in baptismal regeneration (work salvation).

>>22766558
>I think modern middle class life is incompatible with this teaching from Jesus
Tithe 10%. My christian employer said they were in the red for some time because they were too charitable. He's quite wealthy but says he plans on giving money away. He also volunteers almost all his free time to evangelism and volunteering.
>>22769686
You should have deleted this before posting.
>>22768515
The OT talks about Jesus' history and prophesies about him. Then Jesus says he has come to fufill the law, and that the OT points to him.

>>22764587
My question. How does anyone explain away blatant discrepancies/contradictions regarding different dates for Jesus' death (before vs after passover). Does this not immediately make the bible errant?

>>22770512
Why does the Bible have to be inerrant? It's not the Koran. It was written by divinely inspired men but it's not the direct word of God.

>>22764587
Last book read Lamentations

Was gonna pick up a bible for $8.50 at a second hand story but I got really uncomfortable and left with something else. It's trade credit so it's not a big deal to me, I have plenty more and it's funny money to begin with. Idk, it felt weird so I panicked.

Is it worth reading just for the new testament? I feel like I should know what happened there for cultural literacy's sake, but I'm not reading 500 pages about Jews wandering through the desert.

>>22770792
Starting with the NT is generally the recommended reading order. Secondly, it isn't weird to buy a Bible in public and nobody is thinking about what you're doing except for you.

Bump

Also the Douay Rheims is the best translation of the Bible, KJVmeme doesn't even compete.

>>22770792
Anon what do you think about Bible In A Year by Fr. Mike Schmitz? I'll say that watching him and his podcast on the Bible can help you alot if you want to understand it. And yes you can skip to the New Testament no problem.
Here is his Youtube playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeXS0cAkuTPqFMtZQ379qdEmcfxO1SvXc
(Also I would recommend you to get a good Bible translation as so many, like the KJV, suck due to scribe errors. Something like the DRV, Darby Bible, or Knox Bible would be very helpful.)

>>22771134
Why?
I’m Catholic btw.

Why does the KJV have an apocrypha? I thought apocrypha was a derogatory term used by protestants. Isn't KJV a Catholic bible?

>>22771251
To give you an answer, it has way less scribe errors (where as the KJV has more than 10k errors).
Another answer is that it is the first Bible to be translated into English (very based)

>>22771267
>Isn't KJV a Catholic bible?
To give a more historical understanding of the KJV Bible, at first it was going to be a 'Catholic Bible' however during it's project (iIrc like during the last days of it's finalization or something like that) the Protestants took hold of the KJV Bible project and did things like removing books and verses as well as adding verses that are not in the original language of the Bible (I still have no idea why they did this, its weird), however the removed KJV edition books do still exist.
>apocrypha was a derogatory term used by protestants.
No, what you are thinking is a misunderstanding, their are apocrypha books, such as the Book of Enoch, Shepherd of Hermas, Epistle of Barnabas and et cetera. However prots would call things 'apocrypha' despite not having a Magisterium to say what is Divinely Inspired and what is not. They do be silly.

>>22771307
Is there a purely Catholic translation?

>>22771278
I thought the Wycliffe Bible was the first to be done in English, with Tyndale’s translation being the first without translating from the Vulgate.

Hi guys! :) I'm so glad to have found a Bible study group to work with. This world is straying further and further from God every day. It's good to have rays of light like this. Anyway, I have an easy question:
Where in the bible does it justify the countless murder and rapes of children throughout history?

>>22771325
Right at the start.

>>22771327
>In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth
this?

>>22771134
Is there an actual /LIT/ approved translation of the Bible? I mean an impartial one. No bullshit like
>le this is for the heckin CATHOLICS
>le this is for the heckin PURISTS
JUST GIVE ME A PROPER FUCkING TRANSLATION

>>22771313
>Is there a purely Catholic translation?

>>22771360
I mean a true infallible translation of the Bible with no errors what so ever would be the Latin written Bible the VULGATE from St. Jerome. That is the only translation which is truly good mate (P.S learning Latin isn't that hard so it all good).

>>22771319
>Wycliffe, Tyndale
>not official by the Church
>Douay Rheims
>official by the Church

>>22771397
So far I know the Catholic Church itself produced the Douay-Rheims, the Knox Bible, and the Jerusalem Bible (including New and New Revised), but what about those translations that just received an Imprimatur like the ESV-CE, NRSVCE, RSV(2)CE, GNTCE, the Message Catholic Edition, etc.?

>>22771330
Later that same chapter

>>22771360
The Russian Synodal Bible. Go study it.

>>22771416
please give me a reference

>>22771408
>Message Catholic Edition
Bloody hell that exist? I used to make jokes with me frens on how terrible The Message is, never knew that there was a Catholic edition of that quite terrible Bible.

Pretty much every single evil person had a bad upbringing, terrible life in general or experienced a very traumatic event that made them evil. These events altered their brain completely and thus can they even be blamed for their actions? People who say "but there are some who went through the same thing and didn't turn out evil etc." are clearly mentally retarded and can't even do basic abstract thinking. Not only that but people are different genetically so expecting all people to cope in the same way(given that there are no other problems in their life which is never the case) means you deny biology. Where's the free will in that and a just judgement? This is a very interesting question about the limits of Christianity.

>>22771425
Are you implying that in Christianity the test of God are applied the same way in every single human? Because that is not how Christianity is. Also some people need different spiritual help than others, look at St. Augustine book the Confessions for example.

>>22771425
I fail to see the limit here? That person can still repent, ask for forgiveness and be saved.

If their brain is so messed up that they're not conscious of the fact that they're sinning/evil, they would not, in my understanding, fall under condemnation (like a child or a mentally handicapped person)

>>22771360
If you want God's actual word, go with the King James Bible

>>22771443
>a generalized reply that doesn't address anything at all
>>22771455
>That person can still repent
So these people can just repent and that's it? Then you can also lead someone astray but as long as you repent then you're saved but the other person is still not so?

>>22771475
yeah you can rape and kill who you want as long as you feel bad and say sorry after, welcome to christianity

>>22771478
I provided a more complex situation but it seems like nobody can read here.

>>22771475
Yes. However, you can't fake your repentance. It has to be from the heart. You have the example of the thief on the cross in Luke 23. Maybe that thief had been doing evil acts his entire life, we don't know. In his last moments however, he calls on the name of the Lord and is instantly saved, going to paradise.

>>22771478
Romans 6:15

>>22771520
>What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means!
how does this answer my question?

>>22771515
And what if you don't want to repent because your life was always bad or did repent but couldn't control yourself or were put in situations that made you go back to your old sinful way of living no matter how hard you tried and prayed?

>>22768564
>The church is god. Man should worship the church.
No Catholic thinks this.

notice how the talk revolves around which Bible is the basedest, and not what are the good news about, and how are they applied. really makes one think.........

>>22771527
You didn't ask a question? Aren't you 22771478? You think you have license to sin because you're under grace. That's not how it works.

>>22771528
>And what if you don't want to repent
Then you will go to hell

>did repent but couldn't control yourself
If you truly did repent and believed the gospel, trusting in the blood of Christ for your salvation, then you would be saved in that moment and thus eternally safe. There's a big discussion among Christians groups as to whether you can lose your salvation. Personally, I don't believe you can. There could be something I'm missing, though.

>>22771554
That makes no sense at all.

For anyone attempting to read books of the Bible I can’t recommend the Bible Project YouTube channel highly enough. Very digestable and help you get your head around the larger structure of each book which immensely helps with comprehension.

https://youtube.com/@bibleproject?si=lJImsULNsFpEH1Z8

>>22771539
Time and a place.

>>22771568
About as much as God sending his Son to die for us. Of course, you're totally free not to believe any of this, but the free gift is there.

>>22771586
So it's my fault that my brain can't comprehend something?

>>22771598
If your brain can't comprehend it, it's because it has been darkened by sin. This is very normal. You fall under category 1 of 1 Corinthians 1:18. What we need is spiritual discernment (read 1 Corinthians 2:14), i.e. we need to go from thinking in terms of the flesh to thinking in terms of the Spirit. My advice for you would be to read the Scriptures openly and sincerely (it knows your intention anyway (Hebrews 4:12)), perhaps starting with the Gospel of John and then go in to Paul's epistles.

>>22771598
You seem to be falling into a kind of naturalistic fatalism. Your brain is bad so you can’t help being bad. But if that’s the case how do you account for awful people who change for the better? A somewhat cliched example being John Newton who was a slave trader profiting off human suffering who was convicted of sin and went on to write Amazing Grace. The counterpart to this would be a Theistic Fatalism where we say if God is sovereign then how can we be responsible for our action. But if the New Testament refutes this bluntly by telling us we cannot question God’s sovereign will. What we do know is that subjectively we experience free will (I imagine you don’t feel every moment like a chess piece moved either by nature or God) and God tells us that we will be held accountable for our actions. Thus take responsibility now for who you are regardless of your past or your current state of affairs. The barrier is as small as asking salvation like the sinner on the cross. With one confession he was assured by Jesus himself of paradise. However, if you were to decide it would only be your first step on a hopefully full and exciting life following Jesus!

>>22771624
>can't comprehend himself what's being said to him
>>22771726
>profit
Once again missing the point. You're literally talking about the opposite.

>>22764587
I like the bit where the drunk old guy fucks his sons wife because she dressed up like a whore

test

>>22771859
I understand you perfectly well. Your questions are not that deep (which makes me think you're not very old, which I hope is the case). You don't really want an answer to your questions, but only a confirmation that your preconceived notions are correct because you believe you can out-think God. This is prideful thinking at its finest, the irony being that you're too blinded by your pride to realize it.

You've been given the tools to open your understanding, you've chosen not to use them, so yes, you are at fault for not understanding, choosing instead to wallow in the mire of your own self-pity. You will give me a one sentence answer to this message, believing you "got" me and be satisfied with yourself for your superior intellectual capacity. The Bible is basically written for you. Read it.

>>22772089
>I understand you perfectly well
>makes assumptions and doesn't even know what hypotheticals are
No surprise things are the way they are.

>>22772108
>You will give me a one sentence answer...
Turns out I did understand you perfectly well. Matthew 10:14.

>>22772120
As always!

>>22771536
You're absolutely right. Catholics don't think.

>>22771418
The bit where he creates man by breathing live into him as opposed to merely categorising animals.

>>22764587
I'm finishing the epistles and just finished 1 John. The message "God is love" is repeated with different words and phrases throughout. It is profound though, as it stresses and explains why we should love others: because He who created us did so out of love, and later sacrificed his only begotten Son to save us, again, out of love.

>>22772108
Do you mind restating your position?

>>22764606
Talk to a priest Anon.

bump

Having a multi-denominational Christian Discord server is homosexual as hell.

>>22771420
I've never heard of "The Message", care to explain its faults?

>>22774668
it's an extremely simplified paraphrase
>Verification not required.

>>22764587
Agnostic, former catholic here. What is the best translation (to spanish) to read the bible?

Protestant/evangelical bibles seem sussy for me. I do not have any problems with academic translations as long they keep the style.

My catholic friends have recommended me older TJB editions for this. There's Straubinger's Bible too, but it seems hard to get physically.

Is it true that in this verse:

Revelation 21:8 “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars–their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

the term witchcraft (in the original koine greek) refers to 'users of poison', as in not really witches? Someone mentioned it offhand and I can't confirm via google so I wanted to know if you guys knew.

>>22774679
here's an online link
https://archive.org/details/SagradaBibliaMonsStraubinger.BibliaCompletaPDF
look up opus dei, Isaiah 53 imo
the Torres Amat is good too

>>22774687
Forgot to mention I despise the digital edition for Straubinger's lol. I think it's the font. Thanks anyway, I'll look into Torres Amat.

>>22774687

I forgot to mention I hate Straubinger's digital edition for some reason. I think it's the font they used kek.

Anyway, thanks for the help. I'll look into Torres Amat.

>>22774683
Learn more Greek anon.

>>22774683
>>22774780
Anyways here's a website if you want help https://www.logosapostolic.org/interlinear-nt/revelation/21.htm

>>22764587
That's paedophillic art
Only a high level paedo like Jordan "aim it up" B. Peterson ...

Does anyone have a readable version of the 1560 Geneva Bible? Not the bastardised one with modern spelling and removed apocrypha.

I have been thinking about the communist era in Russia and I think that we can see in it certain archetypes from the Book of Revelation. I think that Leon Trotsky is the whore of Babylon, and Stalin is the beast.
You see, Trotsky, or Bronstein, was a Ukrainian revolutionary socialist who along with Rosa Luxemburg envisioned a future of total equality and "liberation" from all traditional forms. They advocated for feminism, homosexualism, etc., subverting all things. A "feminine" disorder of reality.
Stalin was a brutal tyrant who, through diabolical maneuvering through the Soviet system, gained total control and brought a sense of "order" and authoritarianism after all the subversive chaos of the revolution. But this of course was a false order, not the true order of God, but a Satanic hierarchy where Stalin rules with an iron fist, and he had Trotsky killed (like how the beast kills the whore) and Stalin also ruthlessly slaughtered millions of Christians.
I think that we can see archetypes being fulfilled there, a forerunner of the very end of the world and the final Antichrist.
Your thoughts?

bump

>>22775990
>Your thoughts?
I like to listen to the visionaries and their private revelations from Heaven on this subject, such as in the case of Fatima where the Theotokos told the three children that Russia would spread her errors.
Also it would be more accurate to call Stalin an antichrist instead of the Beast, since the beast was confirmed to be Nero as according to the Church Fathers and other ancient Christians.

Reminder that the titular King James of KJV fame was molested by the Duke of Lennox as a boy and went on to spend his entire adulthood serially sodomizing other men.

>>22776731
KJV isn't the title though, Authorised Version is the title.

bumpp

What do you think of Job 38? It's used as a core idea for the film The Tree of Life. One day I listened to it in youtube in original Hebrew and my head nearly exploded

Reminder that God loves you, anon

If you’re interested in Russian spirituality I’ve found “The Life Written by Himself” by Archrpriest Avvakum, and “The Way of a Pilgrim” interesting. I became interested after reading the popular church history series “2000 Years of Christ’s Power” which is quite accessible.

>>22773134
All is mere breath. Ecclesiastes1:2

>>22775884
If you’ve got money to spend.
https://www.amazon.com/1560-Geneva-Bible-Facsimile-Hardcover/dp/B0B2ZQX32N/ref=asc_df_B0B2ZQX32N/?tag=googleshopmob-22&linkCode=df0&hvadid=650080105580&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12124459768158543336&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9071761&hvtargid=pla-2451598389512&psc=1&mcid=217fb053c688396ca075ded1014a2163

>>22777505
Amen.

I can't read Blackletter.

>>22779976
it's harder on the eyes

>>22779976
Learn.

>>22775884
You've got to get a fascimile version for that.