/lit/ - Literature

>>22724152
He would stress the need for boys to grow up and become men. Soibois, numales and manbies repulse women. They want real men, but they are hardly to be found today.
We live in an age of retarded psychological development, in which human beings take longer to become adults than ever before.

>>22724504
Hard to achieve when women divorce rape their husbands and run educational institutions

>>22724523
this. it's a systemic issue. le man up is not much of a fix

>>22724504
A lot of incels would find more help in reading someone like Adler than Jung, considering that Jung deals more with phenomena that usually only confronts people in the latter half of life. Adler and Freud, which are integrated in Jungs model anyway, are very good for dealing with an individuals infantality by helping them overcome it and grow into an independent mature individual. That is why Freuds psychology is about dealing with infantile sexuality, where as Adlers is all about the infantile power drive and goals of an individual - in the case of the former it is a matter of relations to objects, of an extraverted attitude, where as in the latter case the stress is layed on the subject relation, that is on the introverted attitude to life.

>>22724523
Individuation means you become your own being independent of those disorganized institutions and cultural norms. But yeah it's harder when everyone tries to prevent your self realization because you were born a boy.

>>22724504
What is the incentive for men to grow up and be productive members of society?
The need/want to sustain a family.
Good luck finding a woman who is even remotely fit for that.
Your selection is (ugly,) old, used up whores with varying degrees of narcissism and BPD or young current whores.
The solution to this would be social norms but the (((collective))) has decided that women having as much meaningless hedonistic sex in their 20s and having absolute freedom with no sense of accountability is more important than the basic prerequesites of society functioning.

So "growing up" to be a working drone simp is simply a dumb decision that would only be made by masochists or the desperate/resigned.

>>22725805
Working for "a whore" is what everyone throughout history did

>>22725880
No, some used to have whores working for them at least

>>22725880
even if that were true she was your whore instead now if you can even get one you have to worry about her walking out

>>22724152
>>22724504
This, basically. Also, read Robert Bly.

>>22724523
Becoming a man has nothing to do with women or institutions. It is neither supported by nor prevented by them. It comes entirely from within. You have to push yourself to discover it in yourself, by leaving your comfort zone and experiencing the trials of maturity you're meant to face.

>>22725805
"Growing up" doesn't mean you should become a betabux. Obviously marriage is a terrible deal for men nowadays.

>>22724152
He wouldn't.
And you can't ultimately be told to be independent. You have to be independent.

>>22725805
You do it for you. And it's not "productive" per se. It's more like dragging the past into the present through its unique characteristics that aren't currently present, and dragging the future into the present through its unique characteristics that aren't current present. But practically speaking that means making/finding shit that people actually like.

>>22724504
>>22726048
sorry mr jung, but i am stuck being a manchild. sorry

>>22726025
Foids say the same thing though "I don't wanna work for no man and do his dishes Reese"

>>22725560
>independent of those disorganized institutions and cultural norms.
independent how?.

Is joining the military an instant incel cure? Perhaps most are just too damn comfortable for their own good. They avoid adversity and challenge simply because they can, but it’s those things that make you into a man.

>>22726099
To the contrary, you become more incel if you enter a male dominated environment like the military.

>>22725805
You have everything backwards. But it's not just you. I see most people who come to this site making the same error.

Growing up, marriage, contributing to society, etc., is not about what you can get out of it. That isn't why you should do any of these things. Their value, like life itself, is intrinsic; they are their own reward. In other words, when you experience them authentically, they are fulfilling, and nothing more is needed. By measuring their worth in economic terms, you are depriving yourself of various meaningful aspects of life and allowing financial institutions to run your life.

We are actually living in the best time in history for individual growth. It's easier than ever to travel; many millions of people today live outside their home countries, which is an extremely fruitful experience that will encourage you to mature rather quickly. There are also more options and methods for finding your affinities than ever before. The internet is a very powerful tool for individuation. If it's not benefiting you in this way, then you're probably succumbing to addictive behaviors, like browsing social media (including this site) far too often than necessary.

>>22726102
This is part of the problem, women telling men they need to be this and that, not ever realizing what makes men men. Yet instinctively shying away from weak men, women will still give crap advice based on their emotions. There’s a big leadership hole for men and our weak institutions try to tear every one down that doesn’t tell men to be heckin vulnerable, go to therapy or become a woman.

>>22726110
Female-led institutions are a problem but the only real solution to incel woes is playing the numbers game and talking to as many women as possible.
If you're hideous it also helps to improve your looks.

>>22726109
Such a vile reddit post. "Live laugh love".

>>22724152
Didn't he routinely have sex with his female patients?

>>22726109
This post convinced me to marry a single mother with a black baby. Love is real, incels.

>>22726117
>Live laugh love
This mantra is completely antithetical to my post. Individual growth hinges on the exploration of the unknown and taking on new challenges in your life. Living outside your home country is one way of accomplishing this out of many that are available today.

>>22726139
Yes I'm sure going to a tapas bar in Lisbon will help you "grow". You're irredeemably reddit.

>>22726141
Living outside your home country is not the same thing as traveling as a tourist. The latter is a meaningless recreation. The former challenges you to learn an entirely different culture and adapt to a different ecosystem than what you're familiar with. The greater the difference, the more meaningfully you will grow as an individual.

>>22726147
Such shallow platitudes. This thread is about inceldom.
Talking to a lot of girls in your hometown is a realistic solution to that problem, and it can be done while you continue your job or your studies. Moving to another country changes nothing.

>>22726147
>you will grow as an individual.
if you adapt to an environment you grow as a person.
>evolutionism was a mistake.

>>22726157
>This thread is about inceldom.
Yes, and "inceldom" is perpetuated by staying within your comfort zone. Probably your parents have coddled you and made it easy for you to not have to reflect seriously about yourself and your position in life.

>Talking to a lot of girls in your hometown is a realistic solution to that problem
That won't solve anything. Even if you do get laid, you likely won't learn anything about yourself. The problem is deeper.

>Moving to another country changes nothing.
This is a far more challenging experience that requires reinventing yourself. Talking to some drunk girls at a bar is a cakewalk in comparison.

>>22726166
>The problem is deeper.
No it isn't you low IQ retard. Inceldom means not getting pussy.

>>22726166
>an easy privileged life is le bad

>>22726175
You're not getting it because you're a manchild, and you're a manchild because you're coddled and sheltered. Genuine, fully grown men don't need to use techniques or limit themselves to drunk bar flies to have sex. You rely on these because your personality is weak and underdeveloped, and getting laid with these methods won't change that in the slightest.

>>22726185
>Genuine, fully grown men don't need to use techniques or limit themselves to drunk bar flies to have sex.
Where did I even mention any of this, brainlet? My only advice to incels was to play the numbers game and talk to a large number of girls, which objectively works unless you're hideously ugly. You can talk to girls in the library or whatever if you don't like clubs & bars. This is confronting your fears head-on.

>>22726193
>Where did I even mention any of this
You imply it by talking about immature nonsense like "the numbers game" and by even mentioning bars at all.

>This is confronting your fears head-on.
These are small fries. If you want serious individual growth, you'll go all the way with leaving your comfort zone, not just talk to a girl at a library.

>>22726201
>talking to many girls is immature
You're too stupid for this discussion.

>>22726109
Travelling is very popular among the infantilized types.

>>22726193
Generally, people who are unable to form meaningful relationships with women and resent them for it have emotional issues that makes approaching girls difficult in the first place. It's not just what no pussy does to a mfer.

>>22726207
>emotional issues that makes approaching girls difficult in the first place.
Yeah, that's why you need to force yourself to do it if you want to overcome those issues.

>>22726222
Grown men don't mind being stepfathers, that's real maturity and growth.

>>22726222
If you can force yourself to do it, you've halfway already solved the problem. Very often people come to therapy with behavioral issues they have no real external obstacle to overcoming, they have some kind of psychological block against doing what they "know they should" do. People who can put the behavior first are, by definition, somewhat more mentally well than those whose neurosis prevents motive action in the outside world.

>>22726257
The problem is that therapists give you cuck advice. I think most men would be theoretically able to force themselves to do something like that.

>>22726259
It sounds like you had bad or limited experience with therapy. Your therapist shouldn't really be giving you much advice at all, and the ones that do would basically agree with you ("Go out and force yourself to talk to girls, you'll see it's not so bad").

>>22726273
Dont care.

>>22726273
>Your therapist shouldn't really be giving you much advice at all
what exactly do you think a therapist do?. the advice can be more or less subtle but its an advice still. im tired of people pretending therapy is not about what the psychologist say.

Okay, to all the über wise men, intellectual types, stoic blogposters, I want to ask you a single question. What is the definition of "maturity"? My prediction is you won't get a single "unified" answer, because of what? Because such thing DOESN'T EXIST! I know there is this thing called "socio-ethical order", but think about it again for a second. How does it exist in the first place? Why? Why does it trigger men and women (mostly men) to endure unpleasantness and misery in order to be conjoined with predicates like "manly", "mature", "stoic", or whatever? Looking towards it in retrospect, it does seem like narcissism, aiming for a certain predicate, only they seem more "humble", "down-to-earth" than what predicates are more often attributed to what we usually envision 'narcissists', but aren't they formally inhabit the same space? Just the values are being REVALUATED? From "glory" to "maturity", from "flamboyance and decadence" to "stoicism", and so on. I think attributing it into "revaluated narcissism" in some way is correct but it is not the whole story. But for me, this is my philosophical project to uncover the hidden mechanism behind such phenomena.

>>22726283
Your therapist should have a relationship with you that enables your own mind to come to know itself in a way that it hasn't been able to before. You are lost to yourself, in a way that the therapeutic process will restore. Treatment by suggestion can be helpful, but it isn't the active mechanic behind psychoanalytic psychotherapy.

>>22726295
Maturity is acting like an adult. Next question.

>>22726301
Why do you want to become an adult, or more accurately, "to be perceived as an adult by everyone around you"? You care about your self-image so much. Do you consider yourself a narcissist?

>>22726301
What does it mean to be an adult anyway? Aren't you running into a circular logic here?

>>22726305
I think one aspect of maturity that everyone could agree on is goal-oriented behavior, which is the opposite of narcissism in some sense. Doing what you ought to do irrespective of the opinions of others.
Narcissism seems like a childish trait.

>>22726305
I didn't say that, I said maturity is behaving like an adult. Dynamically, you want to do this because (at bottom) you are trying to prevent yourself from losing access to early sexual objects by establishing them within yourself. The flip side of maturity is that you also end up introjecting not just your objects, but your relationship to them, in a way that a establishes an internalized sense of prohibition.

>>22726299
>should have a relationship
the fact that they give you advices casually in a casual conversations talking about your problems or they made it in a way that sounds self-evident to you doesnt make it less advice.
people are retarded about what therapy is. they like to think is some kind of honest, leveled and open relationship so they dont feel like retarded sheep.

>>22726312
Yes, but desiring to be mature in itself. Isn't it a bit like narcissism? Seen logically, you're just seeking to acquire predicate to be attached to yourself, to the "I". Only difference is one side is self-affirming, the other is self-denying (sacrificing yourself, hardship, and so on). I fail to see formal difference between the 2.

>>22726310
In a purely linguistic sense, yes. In a personal, concrete sense, all of our psychologies are form around interactions with discrete, real people, and not generalities. Your sense of what is "adult" comes directly from personal experience with early caregivers.

>>22726319
And, can you define and adult? Everyone has a definition of an "adult". It is a contingent socio-historic thing.

>>22726330
Ah, I see. I respect your argument, but I must disagree here. I am also in psychoanalytic training right now. But I think you cannot simply emphasis experience with early caregivers like that. You must also take into account, the "ideology", the "zeitgeist", and the overall values of the society as well.

>>22726325
>Yes, but desiring to be mature in itself. Isn't it a bit like narcissism?
It probably can be. Many people probably try to project a sense of maturity out of narcissism. But that would probably be a different issue.

>>22726175
And then when you finally get it you’ll be dog-walked and manipulated by the purveyor of the thing you want. Listen to yourself, “pussy pussy waaaah.” Grow the fuck up.

>>22726508
It only happens when you have a scarcity mentality.

>>22724152
There’s that book King Warrior Magician Lover that uses Jungian analysis, basically the conclusion was that young men aren’t being initiating into the actual western lifestyle, probably because in reality most are just kept around as slaves by an upper class that’s becoming increasingly obsessed with immortality and prolonging their own life and vitality. I don’t think Jung could really help these people because it’s too positive and ‘good vibes’. The Freudian stuff is better because it’s more grounded and cold and impersonal. The clinical mindset is the only way to comprehend to comprehend the sadism at play.
>>22725548
Good post
But anything Freud or Jung could say about this they’d just be repackaging from Dostoyevsky. I don’t think people get that Dostoyevsky was the type of guy where if someone started playing guitar at a party or talking about something intellectual Dosto would make fun of that guy and say he’s just doing it for girls. He tears into people like that constantly and reduces all their motivations to something ego centric. Dosto gets enjoyment out of people’s selfishness and thinks it’s funny but he would have a field day with most of these people just out of being honest about their material reality without any real personal feeling. People don’t get that author types are always trying to reduce people like that. Dosto’s whole thing is that all these big western ideas are nothing compared to the soul of the Russian woman and the romantic bandits of the Volga or whatever and he’s just right. None of these big ideas are helpful to you unless you already know that you’re set up to inherit a particular lifestyle. Ippolit is the ideal of the incel, his cleverness and his ridiculous obliviousness that he’s always bitterly aware of. He’s dying and laying in his bed all day but for some reason he’s ranting about the importance of usury for the public to gain capital and a bunch of other nonsense staring at a brick wall. Ippolit is awesome. Imagine if these kids actually attained his level of wit and slyness and honesty

>>22724152
The incel crisis can be fixed easily. Create some sort of modern monastic order which offers some level of social standing and meaningful work. Problem solved.

>>22726109
>We are actually living in the best time in history for individual growth
suicide rates and the increasing antidepressant use disagree with you

>>22726629
That doesn't sound like it would solve the problem.

>>22726109
I work at a backpacker hostel. Mostly "globel citizens" from London, LA, and New York. They all went to university. They all work in tech or finance. They all are unique, special, fascinating individuals.

But i dont think they understand the immense ecosystem that exists simply to take their money. From the moment they step off the plane and into a taxi theyre met with smiles from people who only want to help them. When they get to the hotel its "good vibes only", and we offer all kinds of fun services from walking tours to hot air balloon rides, just to make sure they have the best time. We keep full time plants among the guests to heard them along from one activity to another, always in the form of friendly suggestions. I have a "friend" outside the hostel who i introduce these people to as a local who knows all the best bars and clubs. He pays me $100 for every head i can send his way, and he in turn makes $400 per guiding them through a pub crawl. Abundent cocaine helps to keep the "vibe" and "energy" going, every single night.

The point is that when there's an entire economy built around kissing your ass, of course you'll feel self actualized and confident. Thinking this has to do with "individual growth" and not systemic power structures distributing material goods is retarded. Jung is crypto-glowie woo woo bullshit for people too stupid and infantile to understand Marx.

>>22726657
you are just a faggot urbanite hylic who cannot see past your gay economic lenses to grasp deeper spiritual and personal truths. aka you got filtered by jung, like 90% of /lit/ who doesn't read in the first place and is too infantile to go outside and talk to girls

>>22726657
Interesting post.

>>22726657
>The point is that when there's an entire economy built around kissing your ass, of course you'll feel self actualized and confident.
>material comforts and consumerism is self-individuation
you are such a stupid mongrel its unbearable, you have zero clue what you are talking about. you mistake material greed and comfort within this godless gay society with individuation, when it has everything to do with uncovering your soul and its connection to God. no wonder you ended with a platitude about marx, you're probably straight off the reddit short bus. some days I really am amazed by the shear retardation on this useless website

>>22726690
Redditors love travel though. It's like a religion for them.

>>22726657
i dont know how real this is but i think it happened to one of my relatives recently, he went to japan and i'm pretty sure it was also meant to be therapeutic, its sad how people fall into illusions like that, i also have a lot of incel sperg friends who want to travel that way and get mad when i talk about how it wouldn't work for me and i'd not get enlightened from spending half my bank on staring at a more exotic location for 30 minutes or being just as lonely in a city with different architecture.
>>22726670
>>22726690
dont you think that what backpackers/solo travellers typically do is care about being amongst a different culture and people and so on? nobody ever mentions buying things or partying much, infact its a hipster thing to travel and literally beg for food money in 3rd world shitholes sometimes
i think what you're really looking for is probably being alone in the wilderness for a few weeks, not travel to different countries where everybody is the same anyway besides aesthetically/linguistically.

>>22724504
>>22724152
He would simply teach them how to lift weights and get a good job.

>>22726702
With this I agree. Hiking can be extremely conducive to well-being and mental clarity, and you don't necessarily have to spend huge sums or travel very far.

>>22726702
>dont you think that what backpackers/solo travellers typically do is care about being amongst a different culture and people and so on? nobody ever mentions buying things or partying much, infact its a hipster thing to travel and literally beg for food money in 3rd world shitholes sometimes
>i think what you're really looking for is probably being alone in the wilderness for a few weeks, not travel to different countries where everybody is the same anyway besides aesthetically/linguistically.
literally *none* of this has ANYTHING to do with self-individuation. do you even know what jung did to help himself think, meditate, and understand himself and the world better? he built an isolated wizard tower on the shore of a switz lake/pond, that served as a sacred refuge. none of what you mentioned or the other anons blabbering about travelling or their gay backpacker hostel has any grasp what jung is about. I don't know what he would say about incels or on traveling, which he did his own fair amount of, but all of this besides the point.

>>22726295
"Maturity" is changing yourself to appease the womanjew.
"Men" will flagellate themselves and others rather than accept improvement must go two ways.

>>22726724
>dude money isnt even like real
>just build yourself a villa on the ocean and meditate, youll see life isnt so bad :^)
>i spent two months at an ashram in india practicing authentic kundalini yoga, it made me realize that materiaism is just an illusion maaan
>see those nigger refugees selling used shoes on the street corner? if they just self actualized theyd be rolling in pussy. women are very spiritual creatures and their opinion matters
Shut the fuck up retard. Spiritualism is just a way for richfags to launder their material superiority into a sense of spiritual superiority. Jung was a nazi loving spook and the reason that men are incels is because theyre niggercattle slaves without disposable income to go out or a private room to fuck in. The reason marriage doesnt exist is because nobody has the material wealth necessary for maintaining a family to the standards that women (justifiably) feel is necessary. Ignoring the actual physical reality in front of you while waxing poetic about "self improvement" is the height of arrogance.

>>22726674
It’s kind of stupid because why would these rich kids care about Marx if what they’re doing is already working for them. It’s just idealism centered on Marx with this weird old lady sentiment like ‘oh if everyone read Marx we would all live in a heckin wholesome community of folx and everyone would be so nice and harmonious instead of relationships being transaction’, or ‘oh if everyone read Jung we would all be wizard knights with magic powers’ it’s just the same thing but the Jung stuff is cooler and not as grandma. The Dostoyevsky way of seeing all of creation as something infinitely higher than yourself, bowing your head to the Earth and kissing the ground that you’ve defiled just by walking on it, the sublime masochism and supreme act of goddess worship is the only true kino. I don’t want to see or hear anything else, it’s all nonsense compared to the superior soul of Russian/Ukrainian women.

>>22726626
Wtf, Dosto sounds like a total bro to me. Definitely would dab all these "life is not meaningful anymore, all are just last men" tards together! They disguise their "earthly intentions" into lofty ideals like "meaning, cause, ideal" which will all go poof once they get a date with a 8/10 woman, kek.
>>22726748
True, two ways or the highway.

>>22726670
>>22726690
>>22726775
Imagine getting this upset about the suggestion that material conditions might have more to do with inceldom than "dude, vibes."

Its very convenient when you can reduce systemic issues to personal failings or accomplishments, but also a very shallow analysis. You have the brain of a woman.

Marriage and living vicariously through children is little benefit these days.

>>22726779
No, I think he would test them or challenge them in a way that’s honest but ultimately respect that they are like that for a reason if they can actually ground their ideas into something defensible and logical. Also he’s specially arguing for the Russian women, not just any woman. He makes fun of Germans for having dumb women as a mark against their overall character all the time
>>22726782
Yeah but your solution is for rich kids to read Marx and ‘learn empathy’ or whatever, why would they care

>>22726811
Haven't read Dosto but now I think I should

>>22726827
Start with Poor Folk or don’t bother

>>22726767
I suspect your a pudgy shitskin who didn't have a chance in the first place. You don't need a wizard tower to individuate either, but the point flew over your midtwit head. Go touch grass, or go back to lefty/pol/, faggot. No woman owes you pussy.

The sheer rage and anger in the incel is matched only by their complete lack of self-awareness; these two combined, is what defines their condition. This thread is a fine example of it.

Being brown is the third totem to it as well.

>>22726846
>>22726841
Being brown is a material condition though. You've proven his point.

>>22726861
>Being brown is a material condition though
Half-true

there has been no single person to do more damage to Jung's legacy than Peterson.

>>22726626
I have not read any works of Dostevsky, what do would be a good work to start off with?
I think that the kind of investigation you make through a myth (that is what a story is), is the most effective way of holding the mirror to that state of spirit, and thus it might be the ultimate form of psychotherapy, given that the individuals sensibility is high enough for the experience to nest itself deeply into someones soul image. With an imagination powerful enough, sense experience is not as necessary.

>>22726811
>Yeah but your solution is for rich kids to read Marx and ‘learn empathy’ or whatever, why would they care
My solution is that poor people try to understand the material conditions under which they live, instead internalizing a bunch of mystic bullshit.

>>22726841
Im a white guy living abroad in the third world. Ironically im doing exactly what you suggest, which is living in a different country and seeking to understand it. Your impotent racist seething is very revealing though, how much "self growth" did you go through to achieve such an unwarrented supperiority complex?

>>22726341
Do you feel comfortable talking about your training here? I'm curious about what it has been like for you, I'm moving into my first year in the local analytic program.

>>22726109
>we are actually living in the best time in history for (((thing)))
I have seen this repeated everytime a criticism about the modern world is levied. NPCs are real.

>>22727122
You can thank Steven Pinker for that. Even my dad bought that meme book

>>22727122
These people are not entirely human.

>>22727125
Nevermind it was Hans Rosling or someone else

>>22726657
Thank God I have the courage to admit that I hate tourists because they are annoying junkies and std spreaders without having to hide behind Marx or Jung.

>>22727138
Lol. Kudos, attacking tourism is like blaspheming against bugman spiritualism.

>>22726657
>all these seething replies
You really nit the nail on the head. Good post. Gave me some things to consider and reanalyze about our society even if I don't necessarily align with Marxism.

>>22726657
Why doesn't your materialism include incels being ugly?

>>22724152
he'd know it's not a problem that needs to be addressed through psychoanalysis and he'd kick women out of the workplace.

Very nice /r9k/ containment thread. I'm going to make more like it.

>>22727175
Satanic contraption.

>>22727177
The Bible says animals are on earth for humans to use as they see fit.

>>22727182
I didn't know that.

>>22724152
>the incel crisis
Holy Daily mail

>>22726109
>you have to contribute to society because... BECAUSE YOU JUST HAVE TO, OKAY?
bugman mentality

>>22727316
If you're not participating in society then what's the point of being alive? You're just wasting space.

>>22727321
Oh wow you're actually an NPC.

>>22727321
It‘s a mark of moral and cognitive integrity to be as far removed from a sick society as one can possibly be. To the point of being an active drain on it if one can, all the better.

>>22726657
Finally a good post in this shitty board

>>22726109
>We are actually living in the best time in history for individual growth.
The reality of this world is one of paradox of choice. There is simply too much information that it is very difficult to make a decisive path. Any moment of indecision can be filled with temporary, but endless, entertainment. Thus, someone who needs to grow can simply put off choosing a path until later. This is an unfortunate equilibrium, as the path of least resistance remains is hard to beat.

>>22726977
The Landlady is probably most essential of his early stuff because it has all the same type of characters that appear in his most popular books

>>22727379
thanks king

>>22726990
>Ironically im doing exactly what you suggest, which is living in a different country and seeking to understand it.
I didn't suggest any such thing. This whole thread an an incel trainwreck and you deserve the heat for piling on. Go to reddit if you have a problem with it.

>>22726990
>instead internalizing a bunch of mystic bullshit.
>HURRDURR IM A HYLIC FAG
>>>/plebbit/ or >>>/r9k/

>>22727508
>nooo you have to buy into my made up bullshit, otherwise I will... I will... I WILL SAY YOU'RE A REDDITOR!!!

>>22727698
>hurrdurr im too much of a retarded atheist to comprehend what humans have understood for thousands of years across countless civilizations
you are a full grade retarded faggot and I have nothing but contempt for you, I hope jannies delete this garbage thread and ban you & me so I never have to cross paths with you again

>>22727782
>I hope jannies delete this garbage
Pray to your retarded god then, maybe he himself will delete this thread if you believe hard enough. lmao

>>22727508
>>22727782
>counter initiatory cult of self mubmo jumbo to paralyze and distract people
Im not against religion. Im against using it as a salve to justify social problems and inequality. Telling incels they need to read Jung and "work on themselves" is like telling poor people they should just pray for food.

>>22724152
No mere mortal man can counteract the effect of birth control. No amount of psychological cope can outcompete a physical game change.

>>22727809
>Telling incels they need to read Jung and "work on themselves" is like telling poor people they should just pray for food.
Oh yeah, proper self-improvement is exactly just like praying for food. Who needs to take responsibility for anything anyway? Lets just curse all women as whores while having a nasty outlook on life anyway. Besides, Jung thought the West was doomed to nuclear barbarism on his death bed, asking what he would do to solve the terminally online incel problem is retarded and resulted in a retarded thread. But maybe a little religiosity would lead to some much needed humility for the elliot rodgers like >>22727805 in this thread.

>>22724504
>We live in an age of retarded psychological development, in which human beings take longer to become adults than ever before.

it's called mass society

>>22724152
To genocide all incels

>>22727877

>>22724152
incel threads just ooze the ick. absolutely no surprise you kids cant get laid let alone have the emotional development to actually relate to a woman. society definitely failed you, but you put in the final nail in your coffin

>>22727899
Kys troon.

>>22727899
Don't use that vaginal language, even if ironically

>>22727910
>muh trannies
and then theres the pathological tranny obsession and objection. how about you do everyone a favor, and just transition already, you fucking faggot

>>22727929
projection*

>>22727912
>Don't use that vaginal language, even if ironically
I'm sure you'll gets lots of dates with qt3.14s saying things like "vaginal language." You only demonstrated my point further.

>>22727929
>>22727945
Seethe more you low IQ spastic.

>>22724152
It's not fixable incels need to be put in concentration camps.

>>22727869
This victim blaming discourse is precisely why religious institutions lose power and credibility every time a revolution succeeds. Ironically enough, religious tards like you have no one to blame but yourselves for the decline of religiosity in the West.

>>22724523
>wahhhhhhhhhhhhh im systemically oppressed
You sound like feminists

>>22726205
Being obsessed with sex like you are is what's immature.

>>22726206
>>22726657
>>22726695
As stated before, tourist travel is not what I'm referring to. This is what anthropologists call a liminoid experience — one that feigns promises of spiritual development, but leads to none due to the artificiality of the experience.

Try uprooting your life and moving to another country where you will build a home, learn a new neighborhood, new language, and new set of customs, and work at a serious job, for several years. This is a meaningful form of travel, and it's easier than ever in the modern age thanks to industrialization, aerospace engineering, and the internet.

>>22726619
>scarcity
The financial institutions clearly have their fingers far up your ass.

>>22726641
How are those contradictory?

>>22727122
>>22727125
>>22727128
The NPCs are you for not having any imagination and assuming I'm referring to the trivial activity known as tourist travel.

>>22727316
It's important for your own individuation to figure out what your contribution to society and history can and should be. Doing it for any other reason, like for the "greater good," is what's bugman mentality. In fact, figuring out your contribution will also put you quickly on track to making six figures in a near-effortless way, if you want that.

>>22727960
Chop your dick off already so you can get one step closer to the point where you -ACK yourself, mentally ill chronic projector.

>>22727980
>Try uprooting your life and moving to another country where you will build a home, learn a new neighborhood, new language, and new set of customs, and work at a serious job, for several years.
Tell us concretely what we're supposed to learn by doing this. People in other countries aren't radically different in my experience.

>>22727973
Oh yeah, incels are such victims and its the fault of religion. Grow up, have some humility, and look in a mirror.

>>22727988
Reflecting on new experiences is how we learn more about ourselves and flesh out our personalities.

>People in other countries aren't radically different in my experience.
Where are you from and what countries are you referring to?

>>22728010
Yeah but there are all kinds of new experiences. Reading a book about a country can be much more illuminating than travelling there for example.

>>22728050
>Reading a book about a country can be much more illuminating
Books, movies, etc., will never substitute real life experiences in regards to your personal individuation, no matter how immersive they are. They're the lazy man's form of tourist travel; it's a hollow experience, and you're not actually growing as an individual.

>>22727979
Good. At least feminism is more honest than whatever rightoids offer young men.

>>22727782
>those who know themselves know their Lord
>He is in all, and all is in Him
Sounds kinda homosexual. If you're into being pegged by Yawheh good for you, but i don't bend that way

>>22728067
True, the only thing I disagree with you about is that travel is the best way to gain new experiences. In most cases there are more possibilities available to you in your home country. Communicating in another language for instance is more often tedious than enlightening.

>>22727898
Book? Very interesting passage. It's something i have thought about how interesting that the early 20th century saw the rise of all these utopian ideologies (anarchism, communism, fascism) whereas today ideology remains but it no longer is "ideal" in the same sense and doesn't aspire to universality

>>22727998
Yes. Your religion is effeminate so of course you support the demoralization of young men. Yet your schizo crap has no appeal to people in power, so you pretend you're marginalized and oppressed.

>>22728102
>his grade is still better
why bother

>>22726232
The children usually aren't so keen, however.
Hard to love a child who regards you as an interloper, and resents you for not being their real daddy.

>>22728102
enjoy the trip

https://www.panagiotiskondylis.com/resources/Planetary%20Politics%20after%20the%20Cold%20War%20by%20Panagiotis%20Kondylis.pdf

>>22728099
Well, I don't necessarily think they're the best way. But they're an easily understood and very powerful way. Not that most of the replies to my posts have understood me, since almost everyone is automatically assuming I'm talking about braindead tourist travel, where people just pay for everyone else to do the transformative work for them, from booking the flights and accommodations, to driving them to places to eat and "the sights," to even picking the fucking places they go to, packing all of it in within a 2-week period where they can't reflect on a single fucking thing, just before they go back to their "regular life," which remains completely unchanged (just like their personalities). I also like serious travel because it's not the most comfortable thing to do for a lot of people, who may not have disposable funds, or anyone in their personal life who can give them direct advice on the matter, and that's really what leads to individuation — leaving your comfort zone.

>>22727980
>Doing it for any other reason, like for the "greater good," is what's bugman mentality.
A bugman is insectile can only see to the end of his attenae. He can only conceptualize contribution as am extension of vulgar egoism--that is to say as self actualization.
This is the actual bugman mentality, whereas there's nothing more admirable or honorable than a person who can restrain their own interest out of a genuine desire to improve society.

>>22726748
>the womanjew
I knew Barbra Streisand was behind all this.

>>22728118
>a person who can restrain their own interest out of a genuine desire to improve society.
You will never improve society by restraining your own interests. That's the problem.

>>22726232
No one wants to care of your children, karen

>>22724504
Society and parents are to blame. Femininity is lauded and masculinity is condemned. This happens from a young age, where boys are taught to be kind limp wristed cucks. Some boys will make it through the bullshit to become men but a lot of boys will get caught up in the unnatural bullshit. It's the same way women describe nice guys as their ideal partner while salivating over and fornicating with assholes. Fathers can't be assertive otherwise they'll get divorced and financially ruined.

Let boys be boys for fucks sake. Stop shaming them.

>>22728087
You're clearly a projecting faggot on this one.
>>22728104
Humility isn't effeminate and/or demoralizing you useless troglodyte, and Jung's individuation is the process of obtaining your true self, which you clearly wouldn't know anything about.

>>22728128
Sometimes my personal interests coincide with public interests, sometimes they don't. One would think that that is naturally the case for all human beings, but that's similar to assuming that internal monologue is a universal experience.

>>22726657
If you're prepared to kiss rich arses to make a living, don't blame anyone but yourself. You're a cuck and you know it. This fact informs your entire loser worldview. Naturally you're attracted to Marx.
If you had any talent or entrepreneurial spirit, you wouldn't have to live like that. And that's what Marx never recognised: the drive that people have to get ahead, and live by their own means.

>>22728128
To give you must have, and so charity can omly exist as the flipside of some degree of healthy self interest. Self sacrifice though remains admirable in itself. By restraint I mean merely devoting yourself to a goal beyond merely obtaining a higher degree of personal comfort for yourself.
My grandpa for example raised 5 kids on a high school teacher salary, and still would give massively to charity.
There's even a story about how when the V.A would try to send him checks, he went into the V.A office to try and return the money because he felt he didn't deserve it

>>22727175
In case you hadn't noticed, /lit/ is just an offshoot for the more pretentious /r9k/ faggots.

>>22728141
>You're clearly a projecting faggot on this one.
>He is in all and all is in Him
Nah you're clearly repressing and projecting your homosexuality into religion

>>22728141
Never seen a religious tard telling feminists to pull themselves by their bootstraps. It's very curious that you groomers only target disenfranchised young men. muh humility lol
>Jung's individuation is the process
blah blah blah don't care, nigger

>>22728146
>Sometimes my personal interests coincide with public interests, sometimes they don't.
That's fine, because public interests also need to mature, so they need to be confronted with conflicting interests occasionally. It's not a good thing to conceal the part of yourself that causes friction.

>>22728163
There's absolutely no need to sacrifice yourself in order to contribute meaningfully to the improvement of society. This is a masochistic fetish talking.

>>22728141
I agree with everything or mostly everything you said this thread. However you come off as quite emotional. Had you finished your individuation process you'd acknowledge that some people will manage to go through theirs, some won't.
Also incels are mostly a result of some sort of trauma/bad parenting, getting mad at them for not changing makes you a very bad future therapist. Please find a way to truly respect people's choices, even when bad.
Instead you come off as someone mostly using this thread to convince himself Jung is *the way*, not as someone convinced of it.

>>22728134
This is some bizarre narrative you've come up with. What are you even referring to? Who exactly is "condemning" masculinity?

>Fathers can't be assertive otherwise they'll get divorced and financially ruined.
What do you mean by "assertive"? Also, in most cases I've personally seen, women divorce their husbands because their husbands were not assertive ENOUGH.

>>22728293
>women divorce their husbands because their husbands were not assertive ENOUGH
Why didn't these women select more assertive men to marry?

>>22728293
>Who exactly is "condemning" masculinity?
Not him, but nobody ever uses the expression "toxic femininity."

>>22728293
You've never heard of "toxic masculinity"? Is there an equivalent for femininity? The husbands you speak of are not assertive because they are are a consequence of a neutered upbringing and culture primarily dictated by mothers and Kumbaya societal trends. The fathers I was referring to are the ones who don't have much say in the upbringing of their sons.

>>22728352
No specific reason, probably. Some women become more aggressive as they age, and some get married young and don't know any better. Some are just impulsive and don't spend enough time living under the same roof with someone first, or don't believe in doing so, and then regret it.

>>22728355
I've never heard "toxic masculinity" being used outside the internet either.

>>22728293
Europe has been a gynocentric civilization for hundreds of years. In general Europeans & descendants believe that women = good, men = bad. There are countless studies that prove it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women-are-wonderful_effect

>>22728206
>There's absolutely no need to sacrifice yourself in order to contribute meaningfully to the improvement of society
Contribution is a form of sacrifice. And nothinh I was talking about is masochistic.
Some people just habe a greater impulse to give than others

>>22728373
No fault divorce didn't exist in the US before 1969. Do you think that's just an internet thing too

>>22728373
>I've never heard "toxic masculinity" being used outside the internet either
I hear it on the TV on a regular basis. It's a mainstream concept now.

>>22728384
>Contribution is a form of sacrifice.
I don't see it that way. Contribution means discovering what comes naturally to you, and then taking ownership of that, and excelling at it, and turning it into something that is useful to others. At no point do you need to sacrifice yourself.

>>22728413
What does no fault divorce have to do with this?

>>22728414
Let's say outside of media then. I don't watch TV.

>>22728422
>At no point do you need to sacrifice yourself.
Kinda semantic, I didn't mean self sacrifice in any kind of masochistic or ascetic sense.
I meant more like my Grandpa who was by nature extremely giving and always tended to look to others 1st

>>22724504
Outlaw contraception, elective abortion, no-fault divorce, and criminalize sodomy.

>>22728293
I can't think of a single fraternal male association in the western world that hasn't either been sued into oblivion, opened its doors to women after a massive campaign of criticism, or isn't generally reviled by the population at large.

Don't see this vitriol directed towards any kind of woman-only association.

Incels need to be castrated in mass. We do it with farm animals to keep them tame.
I see no reason why we couldn't do the same with incels

>>22728910
The incel phenomenon is a major evolutionary event. It is literally weeding out all the weak genes. Human evolution will inveitably accelerate as a result. It's all good.

>>22728950
Yeah but in the meantime they'll get violent.
You castrate an animal and it immediately is less aggressive, more docile
It would solve a lot of the problems

>>22728081
How?

>>22728352
Because women are actually poor judges of character despite claiming the exact opposite. That’s why women return to abusive husbands and date dim loudmouths.

>>22728960
>soibois will get violent
LOL I'd love to see that.

>>22728950
This. Whites are too weak for this world. In 200 years every American will be descended from Tyrone the Great.

>>22728972
Most aren't but one or two weirdos take up guns.
Might as well it would be easy too, crime just either market it as the new thing like trannies or offer financial incentives to go get fixed by your doctor

>>22728382
Shit that is damning

>>22728438
So something is only a big deal to you when one of the probably 5-10 people you interact with know about it? Autism

>>22726657
>everything is le heckin material goods and power for said goods
>rich people still nihilistic and spiritually deadened, have to keep the lights on with constant paid for reaffirmations of life's "good vibes" (still doesn't last)
ok wagie

>>22727982
Why did you obey him?

>>22728293
Eunuch for the lack of more fitting words.

>>22727899
Good bait. You even did the lowercase.

>>22724504
>retarded psychological development
Arrested development.

>>22728114
Fuck off, Nigel.

>>22726657
This really has nothing to do with self actualization or individuation in the Jungian sense. I don't see any connection at all.

>>22728950
No, it's an idiocracy situation. The good genes are being weeded out.

Personally I'm getting closer to giving up. I'm trying to dissociate myself from the world. To see myself as completely atomized, a pure observer, and to go with the flow of life. There's something inside me that makes me unfit for having friends, lovers and such experiences. I don't know what I'm meant to do, but I go through life with that mindset now. I found that when you ascribe a spiritual meaning to it, it becomes easier to deal with.

>>22725560
Buddy, individuation comes after socialization.

If a newborn baby isn't held by another human, there's a 50% chance it'll just straight up die after a few months.

There's a reason civilizations collapse.

>>22728979
Legit question, what's up with zooming zooms, such as yourself, making this weird ass comment? It doesn't really annoy anyone.

>>22728910
It's already happening in the form of HRT, and it's making you retarded vaginoids mald

>>22726779
Anon is either shitposting or ignorant. Dostoy was a "return to tradition"fag", which he advocated for despite knowing that those traditions were empty and groundless in terms of connection to Russians as a people. You might say he was like Peterson in that he desired to believe but deep down couldn't.

Anyway from a historical perspective his writings should serve as a cautionary tale, he tries to dismantle ideas like nihilism or communism through religion and humanism and traditionalism, but you only need to look at what happened to Russia to know which way all that went.

>>22730491
>Dostojevsky couldn't avert an armed revolution with his writings.
I think that will be the most retarded post for today.

>>22728950
Cope. If that were true, then IQs wouldn't be falling.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2023/03/23/american-iq-test-scores-show-recent-declines-according-to-new-study/?sh=74f5900559ff

>>22730498
How is that wrong? His work had no real impact, in fact it serves to show the uselessness of those ideals in the face of change. I'm not just pointing at Dostoy himself, but rather the entire movement and mode of belief he was a part of. Those things will ultimately not help anyone, they're the mindset of the losers.

>>22729109
I live just outside NYC, I come in contact with hundreds of new people every month. You didn't answer my question.

>>22730531
>His work had no real impact
Yeah, that's mostly the case with novels. If you evaluate literature only in terms of its usefulness then books aren't for you.

>>22730536
Again, I'm not just talking about his books. Rather, the philosophy and ideals behind them.

>>22730562
Writers are frequently against their time, and your might makes right idea about the victory of communism is low IQ.