/lit/ - Literature

some anon suggested to add https://latin-dict.github.io/ to the FAQ and he made me think maybe we could have a general "Online resources" section to the FAQ

>>22724400
We ought to build a more elaborate sort of FAQ in general. The questions in these threads can get really repetitive.

>had another 'why the fuck am I learning ancient greek what is the use of this' emotional breakdown and returned my textbook to the library.
Damn, it's gonna be at least week before it's back on the shelf. Guess I'll just do flashcards in the meantime.

>>22724646
Least mentally unstable discord zoomer

>>22724395
So as I pray... Unlimited Verb Forms

>>22724659
This is the third time.

>>22724646
I remember that stage. Now I just have psychotic breakdowns involving auditory hallucinations unless medicated

Has anyone read Πράξεις Παύλου καὶ Θέκλης? Moreover, is there any place to get a nice print copy? It's quickly become my favorite piece of apocrypha in addition to my favorite piece of erotica - erotica in form but not content.

I just the subjunctive so much bros. There's no good reason for one mood to have so many different potential meanings.

Latest edit of the Chinese infographic. How's this for legibility?

>>22724975
Also, I'd appreciate it if anyone could provide a quote for the header. I'm thinking
>漆黑茅柴屋半間,豬窩牛圈浴鍋連,牧童八九縱橫坐,天地玄黃喊一年。
I've posted this lightly satirical poem about Chinese education here before, but I wonder if anyone else has any ideas.

Why doesn't there seem to be such a stockpile of Ancient Egyptian literature like there is of Latin and Greek? Was it just not as good?

>>22725156
You do realize just how ancient ancient Egypt was right

>>22725160
Yeah, that doesn't mean they can't have literature of their own.

>>22725156
Because they didn’t write anything of particular worth and also they aren’t part of the great conversation of western thought. Western literature is a continuous chain of authors which all inevitably lead back to either Homer or the Bible. Egypt isn’t a continuous part of that chain and so no one cares.

>>22725156
Because literature as we know it was invented by the Greeks, and Latin stuff is just a distorted copy of them.

Favourite Classical Historian? No Livy or Herodotus. Explain why

>>22725458
Hippocrates if he counts. I like his pseudo-geography/ history book which is like a lesser version of Herodotus.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A2007.01.0074

Dicite mihi quid faciendum sit, sodales.
Cotidie linguae studeo Latinae, itaque non mirum est me nonnunquam in somnis latine loqui. Saepe enim Latinis in somnis meis feminas celebres hodiernas video. Quae cum Anglicae sint, tamen non Anglice sed Latine loquuntur. Exempli gratia quadam nocte vidi cantatricem, nomine Duam Lipam, nudam saltare et voce suavi mihi "vere non Lipa sed Lupa sum" dicere.
Non autem somnia me turbant, sed hoc:
Heri res mirabilis accidit. Vocem Duae Lipae denuo audivi Latinam, sed –o factum malum!– equidem vigilabam. Non in somnis, non in lecto, non in cubiculo vox audita est, sed me vigilante ambulanteque ad scholam. Solus enim per viam ambulans liquide "nocte se non ploraturam sed saltaturam esse" illam dicere audivi, quod valde me terruit. Summe schizophrenicus factus?
Dii boni, timeo ne insanus fiam Latinitatis studii causa. Fortasse non iam latine legere pergere debeo.
Nescio quid faciam. Adiuvate me, sodales.

>>22725510
Larvatu's. edepol hominem miserum. medicum quaerita.

>>22725458
I will admit that I like Thucydides despite him being utter ass to read sometimes.

>>22725458
Thucydides and Tacitus. Both aimed at telling the facts with little embellishment while also extrapolating motives personal and general.
That said Herodotus is my favorite because he is so much fun

>>22726103
We are Herodotus truthers here sir.

new gem from our favorite calvesco https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr_vRgH06mA

Quisquene doctrinam scriptam quae incscriptionem Latinam legere docet habet?

Has anyone ever heard of the physics/philosophy term actio in distans?

Does anyone understand why it's not distantem or distante if it follows in?

>>22726946
accusative neuter would make sense I guess, neuter because it's a, well, neuter thing, and accusative because it's essentially motion-related, like e.g verbs like animadverto in acc. or even related to speech, like in aliquem dico

>>22726946
is distans neuter?

>>22726907
Doctrina Christiana? Scriptiones quae hoc libro continentur de rebus Christianis solis esse censeo.
https://www.google.com/books/edition/A_Primer_of_Ecclesiastical_Latin/rqoXOW6LmVMC?hl=en&gbpv=0

>>22726907
Question: based purely on a "gut feeling", I feel like in this sentence "doceat" would sound better than "docet". But I don't know any grammatical rule to sustain this feeling. Am I correct?

>>22727023
I think it's called the subjunctive of description or something like that. I have to look it up in my grammar

>>22727023
>>22727056
Or it could carry the sense of a purpose clause I guess, as in "Caesar aquatores misit qui aquam afferrent."

>>22724915
>I just the subjunctive so much bros
What did he mean by this?

>>22727003
Gratias tibi ago, sed inscriptionem in signa saxoque legere volo, ut Romi. Malum verbum scripserim.

>>22727023
Fortasse. Tiro sum.

>>22725510
Esne tiro cuius amici ad studiam linguae Graeciae transfugerunt?

>>22725285
Plato was an Egyptian high priest

>tfw the cute girl in ancient greek class smiled at you again today
sucks that i will always be too afraid to make a move

>>22727777
attattatae eccillos suavissimos numeros

>>22723161
I mean "basic colors" within the context of that language. Like to us, light blue and dark blue are shades of blue, but to a Russian they're two separate colors. Conversely to us blue and green are two separate colors but to a Vietnamese they're two shades of one color.

χαιρετε
I'm about to finish a Chekhov collection and then I will read some Greek works. Is Theogony required reading before tackling the Iliad? χαριν ὑμιν οἰδα

>>22724888
>erotica in form but not content.
Explain.

>>22727815
>Is Theogony required reading before tackling the Iliad?
Other way around. Illiad predates the Theogony.

>>22724996
The only part here I can't quite understand is 浴鍋連.

>>22727747
Based

>>22727112
cinaedos illos numquam "amicos" vocabo

>>22727777
>sucks that i will always be too afraid to make a move
self-fulfilling prophecy

>>22727834
Ignosce mihi. Dicam me laudare modum quo scripseris illas iocosissimas fabulas. Exspectabo plus earum.

>>22727821
Good point. Thank you

>>22724975
Do I really need to learn a bunch of sinographs prior to even picking up a textbook? I figured the textbooks in your chart would also teach them (unless, of course, it's a woefully inadequate amount).

>>22727777
Nothing ventured nothing gained, anon. Your choices are either to match her signals with equal or slightly greater intensity, or never to complain about this again.

>>22727827
浴 is, like most Chinese verbs, at once transitive, intransitive, and causative. The pigsty is bathed in rows of pans. Charming little image of a rural makeshift schoolhouse

>>22727962
I frankly don't know, and this is the part I'd most appreciate another anon's input on at the moment. I'm even willing to more or less take someone else's experience and throw it in verbatim or near-verbatim. I learned sinographs as a kid and so my experience of them is just fundamentally different.
My instinct is that some prior study, even a few hours, should be heavily recommended before Van Norden. There are just aspects of the system one doesn't get but through memorization. Stroke order, for example, is in fact critical to quick recognition, and I don't believe Van Norden covers this.

>>22728034
A follow-up, though.
I was once in a major (top 3) Chinese university with a sizeable number of highly literate gwailos. An overwhelming number of them had read a large amount of pinyin-annotated text. So perhaps this method would allow one to bypass that unpleasant grind, or at least part. Sanmin editions would be perfect for this, since they have Zhuyin annotation on classical texts.
Maybe one of us should email Victor H Mair and see what he does with his class? Maybe I can do that at some point?

>>22727962
Also though yes it's a woefully inadequate amount. Sorry. Van Norden is the best and gentlest explanation of Classical Chinese to beginners there is, but already has a woefully inadequate amount of readings, the longest being barely a page long. Van Norden will not give you the characters you need, and Rouzer and Fuller assume you have them already. Maybe the solution really is memorization? Or nab a Sanmin edition of 唐詩三百首 and start reading that early? (Possible with Van Norden + a good dictionary)

>>22727815
Hesiod is by and large reacting to Homer. You can read Homer and then choose to read Hesiod or skip him altogether

Just did a deep dive online. Brendan O'Kane (best translator of Chinese under 50) recommended this as a supplement to Van Norden. This also rhymes with my idea about using 唐詩三百首. Will be downloading and flipping through tonight. Could other anons also take a look? Would be good to get a range of views..

>>22728062
Thanks for the response. I think I'll look into just memorizing some characters prior to learning the grammar.

>>22728138
You're welcome. Maybe one of the few other sinophones in this thread can share how they did it? I know there are at least two more.

>>22728116
What the fuck this is actually straight to the point and excellent

Taking an introductory Latin class. I got more out of reading a few chapters from a 1950s Latin textbook I found in the library than I got out of an entire semester’s worth of material.

>>22728116
This gets to the exact poem I suggested in seven chapters. Maybe I'll put it on the infographic and recommend it in concert with Van Norden? Would certainly help with the character issue.

>Daily challenge
Describe an ass rape in your classical language of choice

>>22728423
It's hard not just to translate Catullus

>>22728016
Ahhh okay that makes sense.

>>22728326
Early to mid 20th century stuff is incredible, manuals on hydraulics, mechanics, physics and chemistry from the 40s to 60s are incredible. Really head and shoulders above what is accessible today.

>>22728415
Isn't 景 jing3, and 影 ying3?

>>22728867
Yeah, I’m gonna try to read through this whole thing and see if I can self teach enough proficiency to read Cicero. Right now I can only translate pretty simple passages.

>>22728871
Loan character. Happens a lot. Notably 女 is a loan for 汝 ru3 so frequently in the Analects that 女 only means "woman" and is read nv3 once in the whole book.

>>22728905
Which textbook?

>>22728940
Isn't it at least once used for nv4 "to give one's daughter to in marriage"?

>>22728949
You're probably right. Just recalling off the top of my head.

>>22728944
It’s called Essentials of Latin and it’s by John F.C. Richards

>>22727883
>>22728016
>ask her out
>get rejected
>possibly have to deal with seeing her in class for the next 1.5 years and can't drop it because it's part of my program
sounds like a bad plan

>>22729022
You don't think you'd get over her eventually? Surely she's not the first crush you've had in your life?

>>22729048
Obviously not, but wouldn't the shame of getting reject stay if I have to see the same person who rejected me 3 times a week for the next 1.5 years?

>>22729054
I dunno, I've been turned down by people I continued to be friends with. But maybe it's harder for men.

>>22729022
Just invite her to study sometime and feel out the chemistry. If it's right you'll both know. People in your program are not for hookups anyway, not if you want any semblance of peace in your life.

>>22729086
Sorry I'm inarticulate am drinking. The gist is go for a real connection in a slower more classic sorta way or get over it right now in your room. With people in your program anything else wish a terrible idea. I think I already complained about undergrad cohorts without boundaries once here

>>22724996
>Tsithec mau-jrai uc bonn cean
>Dyu uo qieu giuaan youc cuo lien
>Miucdhung bat-cieo zioq-huaeng dzoo
>"Tien, dhih, hiuan, huang" xoom it-nien

>>22724400
Can someone just convert those dictionaries into something I could use in yomichan

>>22725510

Saw this inscription on the Charles Bridge in Prague. I would post a picture but my mobile IP is banned.
>Trisagium Christi crucifixi honori ex mulcta in sanctam crucem blasphemi Iudaei.
What noun does "blasphemi Iudaei" modify here? I was thinking mulcta but it makes the word order awkward.

>>22730370
>I would post a picture but my mobile IP is banned.
Can't you just, you know, upload the photo to your computer and then upload it from there?

>>22730377
Get a hint, retard.

>>22730390
Huh? I'm sorry, please explain.

>>22730370
I think it has to be mulcta. Nothing else really makes sense. Word order doesn't seem that much out of the ordinary, either. Forgive me if this sounds ridiculous, but to justify the word order could "in sactam crucem" be referring to the thing that the 'blasphemus iudaeus' is acting upon or directed towards?

>>22730370
>>22730528
Wait holy shit this goes deeper. From this article: https://www.jta.org/2015/03/20/archive/from-notre-dame-to-prague-europes-anti-semitism-is-literally-carved-in-stone
>Elias Backoffen, a Jewish community leader, was forced to pay for the gold-plated letters as a punishment in 1696 either for an actual or trumped-up blasphemy that may have been at the hands of a rival Jewish businessman. Explanatory plaques in English, Czech and Hebrew were added in 2009 after the city’s mayor was petitioned by a group of North American rabbis.

In Chinese, what do the words ching, chang, chong, and any combination thereof mean? Chongching is a big city, I know.

>>22730390
I have no clue what the fuck you're going on about as well.

>>22730393
>>22730788
I assume that maybe it's because he's on vacation in Prague or something and doesn't have access to a regular computer

>>22730370
Trisagion in honor to the crucifix of Christ, made from a fine to a Jew blasphemous against the holy cross

>>22730781
>>>/pol/

>>22730788
>>22731147
>muh
Why do you vermin always seethe? It's the leftypol-fags who ruin this thread more than /pol/tards

>>22731156
>>22730781 was just posting irrelevant racist derailing and you know it.

>>22731159
>anon has question about chinese
>call him racist

Your fault for taking the bait. We had some decent quality Latinposting last thread. I'd like to see more of that.

>>22731167
You know perfectly well that wasn't a good faith question.

>>22731205
Stop taking bait. He can give us productive posts about his language of choice any time.

What's /clg/ reading this weekend? I left my copy of Theognis at an interstate rest stop and I'm bitter about that. May take a break from classics to read Nick Land

ego sum ad primum hebdobmadam linguae latinae discere. ego sum celetier discere

gratias tibi ago, baldman

Here's a funny edition I have. 王國維 (Wang Guowei) is possibly the last of the great Classical Chinese poet-historian-critic Renaissance men, and 人間詞話 (Ci Poetry in the Human World) is his masterpiece. That anon who speaks Mandarin and is doing Fuller might look into it, as it's such late CC that it's effectively Mandarin with CC grammar at times.
That said, this is an awful confusing edition. Will illustrate way

>>22731430
I don't know who this edition is for. It's got the original text and a Mandarin translation side by side, and then it's furnished to boot with an English translation so bad that one needs to know Chinese to understand it. For Chinese who think it'll make them sound erudite in English, perhaps?

>>22731442
Some awful anime illustrations too, inserted totally incoherently into this work of classical literary criticism.
To note as well is that it uses Wade-Giles romanization, but also circumcised sinographs (pejorative for Simplified - horribly unpleasant to read Classical in.) All in all I just don't understand how this edition came together. Had I not bought it long before the advent of powerful AI I would have blamed it on that.

>more bingbong spam
create your own general, faggots

>>22731464
It probably would do me some good to stop posting here. More time for thinking, reading, and repentance. I'll finish that infographic and consider it. In the meantime, why don't you let us know what you're reading and working on?

>>22731403
finna finish re-reading Theogony, then maybe I'll take a short pause from Homeric stuff and tackle a shorter Xenophon work
also re-reading some Plautus

Vicesumum unum annum agebam, nec umquam mulierem cognoveram.Ergo meretricem conducere constitui, id quod in regione mea forte factum neque illegitimum neque legitimum est. Per interrete cum femina noctis colloquor, et quinque post dies ad domicilium eius proficiscor et pervenio. Ubi foris aperta est et illa me amplexus est, circumspicio cubiculum. Fenestrae opertae linteiis erant, odorem fumi valde olfacio et -- o dii boni -- non torum sed solam culcitam sordidam humi iacentem video. (Id, scilicet, non curabam quia cupiditate victus sum.) Culcitam petimus, et breviter colloquimur et mentionem virginitatis meae facio et, nescio quare, illa miratur. Non adsueveram mulieribus alloquendis, ergo nescivi quopacto progrederer ad concubitum. Narratio longa in brevem facta, illa anus, nam circa tricesimum quintum annum agebat, peniculum meum suxit. Verum semine meo non fruitur illa. Post tres partes horae sexagesimas, illa admiratur, et me abscedere iubet. Semen meum non hausi. Quid ego facerem? Quare id accidit? Scio me autisticum esse, sed quomodo deliqui?

>>22731595
Nice. Here's a copy of Cyropaideia that I found at a rural bookshop this past summer. It's filled with very icky oil stains, but I adore the Teubner font. Are you reading Anabasis or something else?

>>22731596
Salvete
Ego sum "femina noctis" de qua anonymus ille narrat. Confiteor omnia vera esse, praeter hoc: non semen sed urinam emisit, hac de causa coitu fructa non sum.
Valete.

>>22731571
Consider taking a break from 4chan, that is. Splitting the general is an awful idea for reasons earlier stated.

>>22731635
Already read the Anabasis, a Teubner. Between Homeric works I also read some Thucydides and Diogenes Laertius but now that I finished another Homeric work I'd like to jump back onto some Attic prose just to refresh a bit.

>>22731659
Nice. How about Hellenica?

>>22731665
not yet, idk if I want to embark in another of his main longer works or just go for one of the shorter ones e.g the constitution of the Spartans, I'm undecided because I also want to read more Hesiod, but it's no rush anyway

>>22731690
Fair! Memoria is short and should be a breeze if you've gotten through Anabasis. It might be a good refresher on prose.
As an aside, here's my bilingual Hesiod. I dislike both the font and the translation but the price on these editions is unbeatable.

>>22731641
Nesiebam te Latine loqui didicisse! Displiceatne si iterum te vocem?

Is becoming a professor in classics comfy, or is academia a dismal pursuit?

>>22731850
I guess it depends on your country. However, it is safe to say that you'll only be happy in a job like that if you truly love Latin and Greek.

>>22726974
>>22726980
That was my first thought too but distans is not neuter. Please Latinfriends, why is it actio in distans???

>>22732744
https://www.reddit.com/r/latin/comments/f1uv6o/%C4%81cti%C5%8D_in_dist%C4%81ns_and_action_at_a_distance/

>>22731850
I know classicists with PhDs from Ivy League unis who are brilliant by every metric, did everything right and check all the boxes, and aren't unlikeable spergs, and they're still doing contract postdocs and teaching fellowships in their late 30s early 40s. Basically there is no guaranteed pipeline to a Classics professorship.

If for some bizarre reason you do it, I'd recommend diversifying heavily and as early as you can. Build a teaching portfolio, make it so you can bill yourself as a generalist so that when jobs pop up for some shit like Roman economic history or Greek poetry you can take a shot at them even though you spend 5 years analyzing one specific kind of inscription. Aim for liberal arts and Great Books schools. Consider strategically developing other specialties like maybe early Jewish and/or Christian Bible history, so you can exploit the huge market for Jewish Studies and the relatively large number of evangelical and Catholic liberal arts colleges that want competent Hebrew/Greek/Latin specialists. Although Jewish stuff will have a high culture barrier. I would say study medieval and early modern Latin but medievalists and early modernists have just as much difficulty getting jobs as classicists.

I just wouldn't do it at this point if it were me. Not after what I've seen. Unless I totally didn't care about employment after the PhD and had other things lined up, or could fall back on family wealth.

>>22732756
That makes sense, thank you. The thing the participle is being used to describe substantively is in the neuter. Can't believe I didn't think of that.

Holy based!

>>22732770
It looks pretty grim. I'm almost finished my BA in classics and at this point, it looks like my grades won't be good enough for grad school (which is a dead end anyways), so my only options are teaching english in China, wageslaving at mcdonalds or the rope. I should have just done STEM.

>>22732810
You can teach Greek and Latin in China if you're in Beijing or Shanghai :)
Idk, anon. Boot camps exist. I did one and was making six figures for awhile but then I had a psychotic episode and ruined my life and all my relationships. If you're not me and don't have a family history of these things you can probably handle the stress in exchange for a decent standard of living and moderately non-unfulfilling work

>>22731159
No, I wasn't. Give the answer, if you aren't an illiterate white knight, or gtfo.

>>22732862
Okay. 清 Ch'ing1 is a dynasty; 張 Chang1 is a family name, and 蟲 ch'ong2 are people who post and take bait alike.

>>22732810
You are not fucked at all. I know people at 30+ who had much worse prospects but also 10 years of doing nothing, except being overqualified for a niche job that no longer exists, and they still managed to re-tool and get employed. Someone around 20 or 25 saying their life is over just makes me laugh because you have so much time to adjust course and re-do whatever it is you need to do, get a supplementary degree etc.

I think some anons should consider an MLIS and try to get library employment experience in undergrad, then work a clerical job or internship with library-relevant experience right out of undergrad. Half the reason I think you should try library work while still in undergrad is to see if you'd like to be around the sorts of people who work in libraries forever. But it's a kind of backup academic job and if you have the MLIS and some experience you can at least wedge yourself somewhere. Also if you then got a Master's in the subject you love, maybe you could even become a subject librarian for it somewhere. Could maybe even get the PhD.

>>22732831
>Boot camps exist
Redpill me on this.

>>22732928
There is not much of a redpill. Just find a reputable one.

>>22732930
No, but what the hell is a bootcamp in the context of classics/greek and latin?

>>22732935
Oh, I mean some tech bootcamp. That said, there are greek and latin bootcamps and you might be able to get a hellish underpaid gig teaching one

Okay, here's version 1.0 of my Chinese infographic. I rushed this tonight because I'm a little tired of this site and want something else to do with my bored and lonely evenings and weekends, at least for awhile. Some other anon should maybe make a Mega of the textbooks I listed. Hope this helps someone

>>22733127
Jeez, what awful resolution. My b, here's a slightly nicer version

>>22730533
>after the city’s mayor was petitioned by a group of North American rabbis.
But remember, suggesting jews hold inordinate amounts of power is antisemitic

>>22732810
I got a BA in Classics over a decade ago. Moved to Japan and now make a good living teaching English here. There is a surprising amount of Classics material available if you know where to look. Shelves upon shelves of OCT, Loeb, Bude, etc. better than any NA bookstore. No opportunity to teach it but as a personal hobby it has been great.

>>22733176
A sidenote is that Japan is only worthwhile if you actually care about being good at your job. That will eliminate most 4channers.

>>22733176
When you moved to Japan, did you know any Japanese? Even by the time I graduate, my Chinese will still be garbage and I feel like that would alienate me and drive me insane. It's not something I really want to do.

>>22733183
NTA but I am Japanese and speak the language natively and Japan was very hard for me the last time I was there. The phenomenology of day-to-day life, for lack of a better term, is very different there, far moreso than China. Don't do Japan unless you are very serious about it.
If you do China, go to Harbin or Hohhot or another nice, small-ish city. Avoid China expats, since they will damage your soul, liver, and language skills, potentially fatally. Once you are fluent in Mandarin, then you can enjoy Beijing, Shanghai, and all the New A-Tier cities, but not before then or you'll live in a miserable bubble. Don't go to Shenzhen: it's a shithole
Or you could do a bootcamp and become a tech worker bee. It's your life

>>22733183
No, not at all. You learn quick on the ground and immersed. If you don't want to do it then don't, start looking at other options. It isn't for everyone. Case in point, see the post above me

>>22733190
I fucking wish someone like you who can straddle both worlds and who is sensitive to these issues would write an extremely deep, extremely phenomenologically sensitive account of the Japanese mentality and its compatibility/incompatibility with the European mentality.

I am completely fascinated by "western-looking" Japanese, oddly enough it's often Japanese leftists who through a combination of psychological temperament (the rare Japanese anti-conformist) and encountering non-Japanese culture at just the right time (western philosophy sometimes, not always though), "broke" from conformity, but WITHOUT becoming the typical pseudo-westernized liberal misfit trash that seems to live in many Japanese tourist trap cities. It has to be someone who can maintain the link with BOTH worlds.

Please write something at some point. I am not a weeb, I swear.

>>22733216
I suspect that if it could be put into language, it would have been already. 日本人論 books are as numerous and useless as French policiers and Chinese 武俠 novels for this reason. Everyone who looks perceives this to be an issue and nobody can describe it. Whenever anyone tries, it becomes another reason for Taro and Shizuko Yamada to curl up deeper into their shells and keep telling themselves how scary the rest of the world is, and for those pseudo-westernized Yokohama kids to redouble down on their efforts to accessorize and shack up with some Westerner. How boring.
I think if anyone could have done it, they're too old now. Japanese society is far into its terminal decline, and most young people these days are not philosophers, artists, or even bare-minimum readers anymore.

>>22733216
>I fucking wish someone like you who can straddle both worlds and who is sensitive to these issues would write an extremely deep, extremely phenomenologically sensitive account of the Japanese mentality and its compatibility/incompatibility with the European mentality.
I'm sure someone has, though I think a lot of people tend to overstate the incompatibility side of things. Cultural differences are real, but fundamentally humans are humans.

Ethiopianon here. It's been a while since I posted, but I lurk these threads and post without signing from time to time. I have a question for you all. I'm going to start publishing weekly translations of a targum on my website. My Aramaic is very rusty, but I should get into good shape very quickly. My question is whether I should translate Pseudo-Jonathan or Neofiti. Pseudo-Jonathan is famous for being very strange and divergent from the Hebrew text, which why I like it so much. Neofiti, since I've read parts of both of them, is right up there with PsJ, even if it isn't acknowledged as such. When I first conceived of this project a week ago, I had PsJ in my head, but now, I'm open to both. Take a look on Wikipedia and let me know which one you would be most interested in and which one you think would be most successful.
One more question, since I'm on this topic. I'd like to start an email list for this translation series. In order to use Mailchimp, I have to provide a mailing address in my emails, as per FCC regulation, and since my website is tied to my real name, I'm concerned about fucking around with that and giving a fake address. Perhaps, a foreign address would work. Any tips on newsletters, not just about the address, would be appreciated.

>>22728423
וַיָּבֹאוּ אַנְשֵׁי הָעִיר אַנְשֵׁי סְדֹם עַל־הַבַּיִת מִנַּעַר וְעַד זָקֵן
וַיִּקְרְאוּ אֶל־לוֹט וַיֹּאמרוּ לוֹ אַיֵּה הָאֲנָשִׁים אֲשֶׁר בָּאוּ אֵלֶיךָ הַלָּיְלָה
וַיֹּאמֵר הִנֵּה־נָא עֲשׂוּ לָהֶם לַמַּלְאָכִים כַּטּוֹב בְּעֵינֵיכֶם וַיִּתֶן אֹתַם לָעָם וַיֵּדַע אֹתָם
וּכְמוֹ יָצָא הַשֶּׁמֶשׁ נָסוּ מַלְאָכֵי אֱלֹהִים וְלֹא שָׁבוּ עַד־עוֹלָם

>>22733131
I'm skeptical about step 0. One can just read Van Norden with zero knowledge of Chinese, and then either take it up properly (at which point, yes, making a study plan is useful) or just leave it at that, having gained a very basic idea of what CC is like.
Any opinion about Vogelsang for step 2? I've seen people claim it practically obsoleted Fuller and Rouzer.
There's a FAQ entry about speaking CC, but what about writing? The only site I know is zh-classical.wikipedia.org, but there are surely more places on the Chinese Internet?
On a technical note, I'd prefer the FAQ (in smaller font) either at the top or bottom of the graphic instead of side by side, so that one can scroll through vertically. And please make it a PNG.

>>22734056
As the current AME poster I feel I have to respond, even though I'll only be interested in the Targums once I tackle Aramaic, which is far in the future. I'd pick whichever you feel you'd be able to improve upon compared to existing translations. And if there's, say, a good artful translation already, there's value in creating a literal one (more helpful for language learning), and vice versa.

>>22734585
True about the formatting and characters. I suppose I'll do a 1.1 sometime today.
I disagree that Vogelsang has obsoleted Fuller and Rouzer. It's an excellent grammar for people who already know the language, but not at all appropriate for the learner.

>>22734593
> I disagree that Vogelsang has obsoleted Fuller and Rouzer. It's an excellent grammar for people who already know the language, but not at all appropriate for the learner.
I see. Maybe something to add as an aside then, because as it stands, people might get the idea that the author of the infrographic just wasn't aware of it.
Which reminds me, would be nice if you'd mention the current year in some corner. These graphics tend to stay around forever and -who knows?- the textbook that obliterates all others might be just around the corner.

Updated. Any last reqs for this?

>>22734585
>The only site I know is zh-classical.wikipedia.org, but there are surely more places on the Chinese Internet?
I'm on a general social/hangout Discord server that's primarily in CC (in varying degrees of bastardization, but the more erudite users write it pretty elegantly) as well as a server (primarily in English) about East Asian classical languages which has a Classical Chinese conversation channel.

Have we ever had a sanskritist here?

>>22734936
ढाल

Hello /clg/. What is the vowel length of the i in pictus,a,um (passive participle of pingo, pingere)? If Lachmann's law applies, I expect a long i, but wiktionary gave Pictus and pictūra, both short.

>>22735459
Wiktionary can't be relied on for vowel lengths. I'll never understand where they get their vowel lengths of Biblical names from.
But I found something that might be helpful to you: https://bpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/sites.harvard.edu/dist/6/84/files/2022/05/Lachmanns-Law.pdf
> In short, LL always 'works' when the root vowel is -a- (5 examples), -u- (2 examples), or -o- (1 example). It is usually also valid for -e- (4 good examples: 1 exception), but mostly fails for -i- (1 good example: 3 exceptions). The exceptions --sessus, fissus, scissus, strictus-- are not discussed by either Saussure or Kiparsky.
But I don't understand how linguists determine what's a good example and what's an exception. How do they know that sessus has short e? It can't be through poetry, as the syllable is always heavy, and it can't be through Lachmann's law, as that's the very thing the word is an exception to.

>>22735459
this article https://alatius.com/latin/bennetthidden.html
claims long based on Romance derived words i.e Italian keeping i and not e for similar words like cingo and fingo
but it also references Allen counting them as short so I guess it's not 100% sure

>>22735558
Interesting. The site's author* writes at the top
> This work [Bennett's], even with Michelson’s ammendments, is naturally somewhat dated. To at least partly remedy that, I have tried to also note where W. Sidney Allen (Vox Latina 2nd ed. 1978) disagrees with Bennett (or Michelson); mainly, these notes concern length due to the “revised Lachmann’s Law” (as stated by Maniet, in Hommages à Max Niedermann (1956)), which, with some exceptions, primarily postulates long vowels in the past participle of the verb when the present stem ends with g and the vowel is not i.
This (the revised Lachmann's Law that doesn't ever postulate long i, if I understood correctly) fits the quote I posted at >>22735529

* For what it's worth, that guy is the one who wrote the online macronizer. Which also gives pictus with short i, so he's disagreeing with Bennett here, and agreeing with Allen.

How will I know that I’m actually proficient at Latin?

>>22735736
The prospect of sitting down and translating something for three hours while feeling like a fucking impostor retard who will never be really proficient at Latin no longer bothers you and you just have fun

>>22735736
getting filtered only by lexicon and not by grammar is a good milestone

>>22736782
Nta but this is good to hear, I'm at the point where I'm mostly drilling vocab but FUCK there's so much of it.

>>22734741
2nd authentic text
>subtler than that
Proofread a few more times, if I can spot an error like that without reading the whole thing it must be littered with them

How many words does latin have that mean essentially "it's true/what I'm saying is true"? It feels like half the time I run into a word I don't know it's just a synonym for that basic concept.

>>22734936
Good morning sir!

>>22737418
https://www.tiktok.com/@magisterkupfer/video/7302794451720736032?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7227532917844461082

>>22733176

where are these shelves upon shelves?

>>22734585
I came across this targum translation yesterday when scrolling through the place's translation list.

https://ebible.org/engoke/

>>22733131
thank you china-anon. Ive noticed that, despite its relative obscurity as a classical langauge in the west, Classical Chinese has some of the best introductory resources of any ancient language (at least in English). Greek has essentially no good english textbook and Sanskrit has only a few half decent books. Wonder why that is.

>>22739051
>Wonder why that is
The terser less difficult-to-master grammar probably.

>>22739051
Several reasons. The lack of inflectional grammar is the biggest one, but CC grammar is still more difficult than most estimate, and all the textbooks I listed do a pretty good job with it. One other major reason is the ability of most textbook authors to assume some prior East Asian language knowledge, a faulty paradigm we're only beginning to move past with Van Norden. This allows them to pace themselves faster than most. The other reason is that the greatest texts in Chinese overlap considerably (though not perfectly) with the easiest. If more Greek textbooks only aimed for the Septuagint and NT, we'd probably have better Greek textbooks too. TLDR higher entry and lower exit points equal easier textbooks to make

Forgot to mention I'll proofread the infographic once today. I don't want sleep deprived scrawlings circulated for possibly years here. Last chance to lmk if there's anything else anyone would like to see covered on it.

Is there a translation of Homer that has footnotes showing the greek script of all the Romanized proper names?

>>22739484
>lack of inflectional grammar
People talk about this as a reason for Chinese being approachable, but it often greatly increases the cognitive load on the reader/listener, it's only helpful when you yourself are speaking/writing.

>>22740058
In the case of Classical in particular it makes certain passages just maddening. I have a suspicion that the large amount of redundancy in Chinese from pre-Classical writings up until present speech has something to do with this.

>>22738899
In Jimbocho:
Tamura Shoten
Subunso
In Komaba-Todaimae:
Kono Shoten
There are a few others that have more limited and specialized selections such as Kitazawa Shoten and Taizando Shoten
Books pop up from time to time on Mercari as well.

Is it possible to learn to read old norse?

>>22741445
yes

ohe, gymasia flagri, ubiubi gentium estis?

>>22741445
Nope. Impossible. The letters start blurring and moving around on the page and then Thor brings his hammer down on your ass for daring to attempt such a thing.

Why are the gerund and the gerundive so similarly named? What makes them more similar than any other participles?

>>22743990
They look basically the same. Just remember that gerundIVE = adjectIVE.

>>22743990
interesting question, I wonder where the terminology comes from, because etymologically gerundivus as e.g "pertaining to" what is gerundus aka to be done fit well to the so called gerundive, but the gerund although formed similarly just functions as the noun of the infinite

What are the best beginner materials for sanskrit?

>>22741445
Yeah, but everyone just recommends learning modern Icelandic first.

These are the authors referenced in my latin dictionary. Which one is the first one for a retard like me who only knows 700 worsds so far? btw are they lit?

>>22744693
Ok
Can I read the Icelandic sagas if I only know modern Icelandic?

Comment puis-je apprendre le français classique ?

>>22744728
You're going to have a hard time with all of these knowing only 700 words, although the easiest would probably be Caesar.

>>22744787
Si ton français est bon, tu peux utiliser "Old French: A concise handbook" (out, en anglais, mais une connaissance du français est très utile (voire requise)
>>22744744
The languages are pretty much the same. The big difference is vocabulary - a different vocabulary is required for reading sagas because of their content

>>22731595
started with Xenophon's constitution of the Spartans
such a pleasing prose, maybe it's because I've improved since I read the Anabasis back then but I like his style even more; to the point, yet not sacrificing the power of the language, even challenging sometimes despite his reputation

>>22740058
>>22740125
yes it's very annoying
i.e. recently I had the sentence "被甲之士,名曰公鹿,望見簡子大笑。" which can either mean:
>a soldier wearing armour, named Gong Lu, saw Jianzi laughing from afar
>a soldier wearing armour, named Gong Lu, saw Jianzi from afar and laughed
there's absolutely no clues or ways to tell which meaning is correct, it depends entirely on context (which thankfully was made clear by the next sentence [簡子曰,笑何也?] but without this it can just fuck you over)

with modern Chinese these situations aren't that common but they happen all the time in cc. There's no way to read it quickly or fluidly as you always have to be considering these questions of what the meaning actually is

Recommendations for Greek reference grammar and dictionary? Also how much vocab should I know before I can start reading works? What should I start with?

>>22746751
looked in the FAQ yet?
as for dictionary, personally I'm an online learner so I used both https://www.grecoantico.com/ in my language(Italian ofc) and LSJ online https://lsj.gr/wiki/Main_Page
the latter of course also has the individual sources for its lexica

Anyone have any experience learning Italian to read Athenaze already having learned Latin? Worth it?

Proofread and defucked the bottom section for legibility. Now that that's done I need to clear my brain for a bit, or a long time even. Hope someone finds this useful

>>22746956
Why would you do this? You can use Italian Athenaze without Italian. Learn Italian for Guido Cavalcanti and Dante instead

>>22746960
Dante might be doable, but RIP any Italian learner who tries Cavalcanti.

>>22747047
He's worth it

>>22746960
> You can use Italian Athenaze without Italian
What do you mean? It seems like the footnotes, exercises, introduction, &c. are all in Italian. I mean, I maybe get the general gist of what's being said, but I still think I would need to know Italian or constantly reference a dictionary.

>>22729676
ask gpt to do it retard

>>22747432
Italian Athenaze is superior as a reader and should be used as such. The correct way to use a reader is in conjunction with a grammar, and with frequent re-reading. If used correctly, its notes etc are redundant.

>>22746956
I managed to learn enough italian to read Athenaze in 3-4 months. It's really not hard. 2 years later and now I can read italian with a surprising degree of ease.
So in my eyes, it's totally worth learning it to read Athenaze if you continue doing italian

>>22747550
It's worth learning French, Italian, and German because good scholarship is in French, Italian, and German and because life isn't worth living without French, Italian, and German. But Italian Athenaze doesn't even need Italian.

>>22747564
I agree. Everyone interested in literature should learn those. I have all of them in my belt personally.

>>22746751
Smyth for grammar
Liddell for dictionary

>>22744787
Si tu veux parler de l'ancien français, je l'ai appris en me servant du même bouquin que >>22745606 t'a conseillé.
La grammaire n'est pas bien dure, si quelque peu différente du français moderne, avec une morphologie qui distingue deux cas ainsi que quelques règles notamment dépendantes d'un système d'alternance phonétique bien plus complexe que ce qu'on peut trouver dans le français moderne.

>>22747739
CGL is the new LSJ.

>>22746958
谢谢 anon, I'll save that for when I'm ready to step into learning classical

>>22747564
>>22747587
If anyone wants to learn German, then I'd recommend German for Reading by Karl Sandberg. After this, use the Goethe Institute Anki decks to memorise as much vocab as possible.

>>22747525
Makes sense, thank you

>>22749264
I myself went through German for Reading, and I have to say it's definitely not an end-all-be-all. The introduction itself says that its goal is to get you to be able to skim a newspaper. I've heard great things about Michel Thomas, so I would have to tentatively recommend that in conjunction.
https://lukesmith.xyz/articles/learning-european-languages-michel-thomas/

>>22749595
You're right. My post is incomplete. Usually when I recommend GFR, I recommend Anki decks AND German kids' books and graded readers for input. I made that post quickly because I was expecting builders to show up any minute.

>>22749620
Do the Anki decks have complete sentences with audio for each vocabulary entry? This is the only use-case I've found for anki that separates it meaningfully from traditional flashcards.

>>22749582
Yw. Maybe we should have "How to Use LLPSI" and "How to Use Italian Athenaze" guides. I think a lot of people genuinely don't know.

>>22749655
Went and made it myself. Post whenever we get this question from now on if you agree w what I said

>>22749860
What do you think of using the English version of Athenaze alongside the Italian one, for the grammar explanations?

>>22750357
>The correct way to use language readers is in conjunction with other resources

>>22750413
>>The correct way to use language readers is in conjunction with other resources
Yes, in this particular case I think so. Any insight you want to share?

>>22750422
EN and IT Athenaze are both readers. It's more beneficial to do IT Athenaze plus something else than EN-IT Athenaze together.

>>22749860
vae me retardatum. modo anglice athenaze emi

>>22751743
Updated the guide in your honor

I added the CC and Athenaze infographics to the FAQ.

>>22744744
The usual thing I've heard is that it's about as hard as approaching Shakespeare while only knowing present-day English.

>>22746394
Doesn't one eventually start developing a certain degree of intuition?

>>22752796
The links are broken

>>22752898
seem like a problem with imgur because I get errors too sometimes but reloading the page works

>>22752652
you succeeded in making me feel worse for spending money for the english copy

>>22752813
Yes, over time, but syntactic ambiguity is forever

>>22746270
also finished it rather quickly, maybe'll get me some more Xenophon but something a bit longer next

>>22727062
I jussive subjunctive so much

What's the longest you've gone without reading anything in a classical language since you started?
I'm recovering from a bad bronchitis and it has sapped the energy to work out or study out of me for a good 10 days. Heu, me miserum.

>>22752796
stealing this pepe

Sometimes I wonder what the British Latin language would have been like had Latin remained the tongue of the land.

Does anyone know how a native or advanced latin speaker would think of perfect and imperfect tense? It makes sense when you translate it but to think of it in latin is somehow strange

>>22755760
Do you think about perfect and imperfect tense in English? If you are telling a story does tense even cross your mind?
>but Latin
no

>>22755766
I sort of think it would be incredibly autistic if someone only spoke in perfect tense, and I cant really tell the difference except in terms of autism

>>22755774
Oh fuck I shouldve done a slight amount of research, im a retard

>>22755760
Its a different way of viewing a language when you have to think about it first, it is easy to forget the ingrained basics

>>22755033
Did the common man and woman of Britain speak Latin or did they retain their Celtic/Pictish language?

>>22754941
The hardest part is getting started again.

>>22755033
There's been at least one attempt at imagining it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brithenig

>>22756628
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ill_Bethisad
holy autismus maximus

>>22756870
Is alternate history really that autistic?

>>22754941
couldn't tell you the exact time, maybe few months, but when I started Greek for a while I had stopped reading Latin, albeit my level with the latter was already good enough to restart reading some new material alongside my Greek studies, even though I began by re-reading something familiar to sort of get back on track

What's /clg/ reading this weekend?
I'm reading Argonautica Γ'

>>22757981
I'll finish my second read of Xenophon's constitution of the Lacedaimonians, then idk, either some more Xenophon or I'll go back to Hesiod

>>22754941
Got a degree in Classics. Later I took a break for 2-3 years, didn't touch anything in Latin or Greek. Was very rusty when I started back up but got back to speed fairly quickly.

>>22757981
Finishing up Syme's Roman Revolution
Gellius and Seneca's Dialogues on the Latin front.

Im just starting out and I read somewhere that there are 6 millions latin words, is this true am I going to have to remember 6 gorillion latin words

Looks like clg is the only place on lit where people actually read

>>22758932
actually its six billion

>>22758932
lots of them will be composites whose meaning aside from some idiomatic usage will be clear from its constituting parts

>>22760216
You're replying to bait. No language has millions of words, unless defined in a way that essentially makes the number meaningless.

>>22752813
if you try to rely on intuition, and get it wrong, it will fuck over your comprehension of whole passages and get you stuck in a rut, due to confirmation bias

Will reading the Greeks in my native language be detrimental to my experience of reading it in Greek? I’m learning the modern format now so I can communicate with my in laws and I’m not picking up Attic until I’m more confident with Greek as a whole

>>22760464
probably the same kind of false-friends Romance speakers have to beware when learning Latin

>>22758932
Depends on how we're counting words. If voco/vocas/vocat counts as 3 words, then yeah it's overwhelming. But they're really just one word which has different endings.

>>22760464
>Will reading the Greeks in my native language be detrimental to my experience of reading it in Greek?
Most classics majors I've met have done this at some point.
There are only a few reasons to learn Latin or Greek: poetry, specialized work, homework, and obsession.

What's the best flashcard app that I can share an account on my computer and phone? Quizlet fucking sucks and is constantly removing and changing options to the point of unusability.

Redpill me on learning Egyptian hieroglyphics, "a combination of language and cryptography". It's horrifically difficult and also completely useless, so naturally I have an urge to learn it

>>22724870
What were your voices? Mine were always dude voices telling me I'm gay and also old lady voices telling me that if I push myself harder, I could be heroic.

What are some good resources to begin learning Biblical Hebrew?

>>22762716
anki

>>22760464
Reading Greek in your native language or any language you understand well is only going to be beneficial to your understanding of Greek. It sounds like you want to learn Modern Greek to talk with your in-laws. Now, that can contaminate your approach to Ancient Greek, certainly in terms of pronunciation. Pronunciation doesn't really matter as long as it's consistent and understandable to others. Hit the books, man.

>>22762716
I recommend Knowt. It has the features of Anki and Quizlet but free and on the cloud, meaning you can share sets.

>>22763164
Aleph with Beth on YouTube

>>22762075
What about all the piles of stuff from the Middle Ages and Renaissance that isn't translated? Or are you including all that (the majority of surviving Latin, if I recall) under "specialized work"?

>>22762772
I've heard that the way Perepelkin did it was that he started by learning Coptic, which is written in an alphabet and still spoken in Coptic churches, to fluency, and then learning to pronounce hieroglyphic Egyptian in Coptic reflexes (like how the Chinese will pronounce Classical Chinese in modern Chinese pronunciation), and the result was he was one of very few Egyptologists who could actually read hieroglyphs somewhat fluently as opposed to painstakingly deciphering symbol by symbol.

>>22764753
To be fair that stuff is probably of very very little interest, right?

>>22764796
Much of it, sure, but there's just so much of it that there's bound to be some interesting stuff. I'm sure that what's translated is biased towards the interesting stuff, but they can't have translated it all just because there's so damn much.

>>22755887
Half of the island was essentially free of Roman rule, and even the parts that Rome had a firmer hold of were less Romanised than the continental provinces. I'd imagine that Latin was widely-spoken by regional chieftains and their families, who were more integrated into the Roman system, and that many merchants and wealthier individuals would've spoken some. I think the mass of people would've remained quite ignorant of it, in all honesty. Bear in mind that even the Britons who fled the island in the wake of Saxon invasions, and landed in France, established not a distinct Roman society but a distinct Celtic one (Brittany).

Why do Latinx pronounce χ like the X in "Mexico" (Mehico) while Anglos pronounce it like the ch in echo?

>>22765046
The x was added to larp as pre-Hispanic cultures, but is always sounded like 'j'. Some people even spell is like Mejico.

>>22765046
In older Spanish, X stood for the "sh" sound (I'm not sure why), which is how the word 'Mexico' was originally pronounced in Nahuatl, but then in Spanish it shifted to a "kh" sound (like the "ch" in "Bach" or "loch" I mean). The "zh" sound, which was spelled as J, also merged to the same value. Greek words with χ in them tend to be borrowed into Spanish with c/q (caos, química, eco).

Started learning more Greek vocabulary once I dropped Anki and just started reading books where I can understand ~95% of vocabulary (Xenophon mostly) and looking up any words I didn't know. If I have to look up a word 2, 3 or even more times that's okay, I'll eventually get it. Don't know why everyone loves Anki, it barely helps.

>>22764753
Good point. That generally falls under specialized work, because it certainly isn't general readership material. But you're right: it's certainly still a step down from, say, granular scholarship.

>>22765157
Anki has actual use cases, but endlessly grinding random, decontextualized vocabulary isn't one of them. I'd guess people like it because it's very easy just to grind like a video game. I wonder what percentage them have gotten through Xenophon.

>>22765046
A very important thing to always have in mind is that letters ≠ sounds. This is not only the case for English but every other language. Think of book and gook.

bump

>>22731727
Is this a Budé? Been looking into them but I think they're pretty hard to get in the US.

>>22768200
You can find some on Abebooks, but you'll probably have to cut the pages open. I would recommend using an index card. Don't get the ones on Amazon, they're smaller than the older ones for some reason which I don't like.
Budes in general are very overpriced so I would say only get used. The Iliad for example is 4 volumes (plus one introductory volume) and they're all like $40. You could just get the Loeb, OCT or an old Teubner for most books.

Can you actually get any jobs outside of working in academia with Greek and Latin knowledge? I've been thinking about working at a Catholic school after uni but idk how hard it is to get a job at one. Anyone have any experience? What do they look for on a resume?
I also saw someone here say that China is looking for G/L teachers. Is that a meme, or should I start learning Mandarin?

>>22768615
Don't seek out Budé: they're overpriced and the translations are mediocre. Budé are for roadside bookshops in France at 3 eur apiece, not for seeking out.

>>22768623
I was the one who said that, and I was half kidding unless you're specifically in Beijing. China is big enough for you to carve out any niche, but only if you're enough of a go getter. Chinese G/L students will outperform western ones when given the chance but there are very few of them.

>>22768634
Yes, I agree about the Budes. A year or so ago I was seeking some of them out since I'm learning both French and Greek but in retrospect they weren't worth it.

Speaking about Teubner, how is there not a single academic review of Zago's 2020 edition of the Fabulae by Phaedrus?
Bryn Mawr lists it as "received", but that's it. Seems to be the first major critical edition since one hundred years, shouldn't that have made more of a splash?

>>22768200
Don't concern yourself with Budes as an American. They are shitty paperbacks. Teubner might be a bit more common, but still don't seek them out. Loebs, Budes, and Teubners are all the same. Buy what you have access to at a good price.

I’m going to uni soon, and need your help, friends. How many women are in classical languages classes? Way more than philosophy, right? How can you avoid women while majoring in this?

>>22768960
You should teach yourself Sumerian and/or Akkadian before the semester starts - this will give you a jump on the other students, and if at any point you see a woman you will have access to a wide array of ancient incantations with which to purify yourself from her filthiness (you should also stock up on garlic, onion peel, and red wool before going off to school, you'll need these for the ritual), or curses to level at her in order to make her crops fail, her livestock die, her children be born deformed, etc. It would also help to make sure you pick the same seat every time you go to a lecture - this way you can surround it with a magic circle of flour in order to intercept her evil influence. These methods are approved by professional /clg/ anons, so you know it's legit.

>>22768960
>How many women are in classical languages classes?
In my experience, the gender disparity is pretty even in classics. There might even be a tiny bit more foids than men.

>>22769018
Real funny, anon
>>22769024
Disappointing. Perhaps philosophy is the better path. Do the women at least get filtered out after a certain point? Do you remember what specific classes have fewer women, and which have more?

>>22769142
Even when one gets into the more advanced stages of Latin, there are still about an equal number of men and women. If you truly want to avoid foids, just be that incel creep that sits at the back of the class and talks to nobody.

>>22769154
Are there fewer in Greek? What about Hebrew? Count jews as women, of course. I can’t avoid them by being an incel since I’m tall, white, and goodlooking, and avoiding interaction with the class wouldn’t be worth it anyway—they’d still be talking, taking up attention, which is the fundamental problem. There is no navigating the problem: It must be eliminated.

>>22769142
>Real funny, anon
Yeah, all fun and games until you're getting plagued by a leontocephalic alal

>>22769251
Rather than indulging in derived humor, why don’t you simply help me out so I can study classical languages without having to interact with women?

>>22769324
You are taking this very lightly, Anon-Sin, may Pazuzu shield you from the arrat la nap-šu-ru!

>>22769351
Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo,
Aureli pathice et cinaede Furi,
qui me ex versiculis meis putastis,
quod sunt molliculi, parum pudicum.
Nam castum esse decet pium poetam
ipsum, versiculos nihil necesse est;
qui tum denique habent salem ac leporem,
si sunt molliculi ac parum pudici,
et quod pruriat incitare possunt,
non dico pueris, sed his pilosis
qui duros nequeunt movere lumbos.
Vos, quod milia multa basiorum
legistis, male me marem putatis?
Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo.

>verification not required

>>22769366
I must say anon, this raises some questions about your true motives for avoiding women...

>>22769419
What are the questions?

Poor sap. Should have chosen Electrical or Computer Engineering or the military then, but there's time yet.

>>22769366
Old joke.

>>22769448
The military is currently made for women and all that other stuff just doesn’t reach what I’m looking for.

>>22769472
What are you looking for?

>>22769486
I want to explore philosophy and poetry, and in their original languages. I want to commit much of it to memory.

>>22769534
You should try to do what you want, while keeping in mind that never in any age or society will or would you ever have the perfect conditions for it.

>>22769571
I’m more than aware—that’s the gift of reading: learn anything, anywhere, any time—but it still sucks that we can’t experience the woman-free academia of our fathers.

>>22769730
Are you implying that the contingencies of your surrounding world are somehow an impediment to your learning? If so, that sounds more like a (You) problem.

>>22769730
Okay. Your choices are to go study classics and learn to live with it, or to do something else. The world's your oyster.

>>22769730
>woman-free academia
Become a priest

>>22769749
I have zoomerbrain and unironically only want uni because I can actually focus and read sitting at a desk in a classroom. I’ve also considered just walking out of my parents’ house one day with a backpack filled with books, my laptop + solar charger, bananas + peanut butter so I don’t starve to death, and a planet fitness membership so I can shower. Maybe finding a way to cure zoomerbrain is better.
>>22769752
I’ll study classics either way.
>>22770069
I’m not Catholic, and even if I was I don’t wish to give up pussy.

NOVUS THREADUS
>>22770293
>>22770293
>>22770293

>>22771180
>THREADUS

>>22769024
In my experience it might be even at the 100 level languages or in the archaeology courses, but most of the women get out of the language classes sometime in the middle of the 200 level.