/lit/ - Literature

trying being less schizo boys

>>22695454
will work on it. Appreciate the Germanic thread picture and edition. Proves the ragers wrong a bit

In the spirit of this Germanic edition - what's everyone's favourite germanic lang? Bonus points if its classical/medieval. Obviously, mine is Anglo-Saxon. It's based, it sounds cool, I speak its descendant and Beowulf is my favourite hero ever.

Also, anyone wanna talk a little Beowulf? What do we think about his epithet at the end, "lofgeornost?" Good meanings or bad meanings? Christian or pagan interpretation?

Nescio quod faciam, nescio quis mihi auxilio esse possit. Adiuvate me sodales, legite quid mihi acciderit.
Puella pulcherrima et venustissima epistulam anglice scriptam mihi misit qua plane dicit se velle mecum cubare.
At puella illa septemdecim annos nata tantum est, ego autem duodeviginti. O me miserum! Si cum ea cubabo, in vincula coniciar ob stuprum! A, utinam illa tres menses antea nata fuisset et hodie iam duodeviginti haberet annos! Sic possem eius magnas sugere papillas et rotundum percutere culum!

>>22695640
Get lost pedo. Stop talking to high schoolers in your twenties.

>>22695640
Nescio *quid faciam.
Tam turbatus sum cogitans de vetitis mamillis ut recte scribere non possit.

>>22695640 #
Nescio *quid faciam.
Tam turbatus sum cogitans de vetitis mamillis ut recte scribere non possim.

>>22695663
I though duodeviginti meant eighteen (two from twenty). Which means that if he's in the US he'd probably be protected by a close-in-age exemption (for that matter, most US states set it at 16 or 17) but even in the states that don't have one he could just... wait three months since he's only three months older than her?

>>22695673
>>22695640
tantum est necesse ut illam ad aetatem legalem veterescere paucis mensis manes

>>22695640
etiam nullum est cunnum qua incarcerari valet

>>22695793
You're right it does I was just reading too quick. Not a pedo a pedo then.
>>22695917
*Maneas, because it's a subjunctive following ut.
>>22695927
Probably would've used digna with the ablative of some word meaning incarceration instead of the passive inf.

>>22695673
Kek funy

>>22695640
>>22695673

>>22695917
est necesse is ugly style, no one writes like that. stick with necesse est

>>22695453
>You are very welcome to suggest additions/
Curated collection of offline Latin and some Greek dictionaries
https://latin-dict.github.io/
All of those can be used with libre software, for both pc and phone.

when's the last time you saw a well-written latin/greek post in this thread?

>>22697140
Scio....non!

>>22697140
τἄγω γέγραφα κατὰ πάντα Θουκυδιδιστὶ γεγραμμένα

nunc est latine scribendum, amici
nescio quid scribam sed expetens sum colloquendi
amabo vos, loquimini mihi logos procrastinanti oblectantos ut studium graecam discendi refoveam

So then, Latin or Greek? Who wins?

>>22697274
Res mirabilissima linguam gracam discere. Notum est nonnullas aves voces hominum emittere similes posse. At graculi? Inauditum.

>>22697551
Lol

Quod cunnus facit viro:
>>22695640
Quod nihil cunni facit viro:
>>22696410

>>22697551
hahae, viden illum ioculatorem!

>>22697746
attamen ambo cun nobis sunt

>>22695484
> what's everyone's favourite germanic lang
There's so much stuff in MIddle High German, but I never find time to get into it.

Auxilium estote mihi, quaeso.
Ignoscite mihi nescienti quomodo latine dicam "bullying", nam de "bullying" loquendum'st.
Laetus in schola meis cum sodalibus abhinc octo menses linguam Latinam didici et adhuc disco cotidie legendo. Omnia bene se habebant: linguam amabam et amici, quamquam pauci erant, saepe mecum latine loquebantur.
At ecce res funesta.
Novus magister advenit qui linguam Graec*m doceat. Equidem nil curo Gr*ecos (qui scilicet pathici sunt omnes), sed -o factum malum!- ab omnibus sodalibus desertus sum.
Amici enim (si possum "amicos" vocare istos cinaedos) non iam Romanae sed Gr*ecae linguae student.
Ego solus in classe latina maneo.
Ego solus in tota schola heterosexualis sum.
Hellenophili isti cotidie me deridere solent et "romaikidion" vocant.
Dicunt me esse "fascistam" quia homosexualitatem (rem graecissimam) non colo.
Cotidie "bullying" patior Latinitatis causa.
Scholam odi.
"Amicos" odi.
Et nescio quid faciam.
Auxilio estote mihi, quaeso.

>>22698157
auxilium nullum
graecia ferum victorem cepit
consummatu'st

>>22696861
>>22696410
bonum vestrum iudicium gratum est, quod modo lego latine et numquam scribo

>>22698157
Tibi pauco tempo investigavi, iamque mihi constat optimam rationem latine "bullying" dicendi "grassor" deponentem esse. V. paginam 848 secundae editionis OLD.

>>22698390
>tempo
tempore*

For someone who wants to know both Latin and Greek, is Latin worth tackling first?

What are some greek forms

>>22698407
yes unless you are Greek

>>22698413
ὀράω, ὄψομαι, εἶδον, ἐώρακα, ὦμμαι, ὤφθην

>>22698492
DELE HOC
Noli litteris gr*ecis filum spurcare

>>22698492
based and hellenic pilled

>>22698762
>inquit "filum" non "forum"
Hahahae

>>22695484
I would like to help revive the Gothic language

>>22698913
Got a cool gothic textbook auf Deutsch from a prof of mine. Although I think revival is pretty dumb desu, or just not for me I guess

>>22698896
Wouldn't "forum" refer to the board as a whole and "filum" to the specific thread? And lots of languages use literal translations of "thread" to refer to forum threads, so it's reasonable to suppose that if there were still ancient Romans around they might do the same. Or what would you suggest as a translation of "thread" as in forum thread?

should i continue to learn latin in university or just study it on my own? ive only done a semester of it so far

>>22699278
That depends. Are they teaching you to actually read Latin, or just transverbalize?

>>22699326
>transverbalize
another for the word filter
you are the only one who posts that
get a life fag

>>22699278
What are your goals? What is your major? Do you have the space and time to take Latin on top of your other coursework? How far do you want to go with the language?
There are so many variables at play no one can answer that for you. Find out what you want and pursue it.

>>22699392
It's a real problem, though. What would you prefer I call it?

>>22699278
I took two semester of Latin before learning on my own, not by choice but by administrative fuckup. I definitely recommend taking at least one more semester of Latin, as two semesters was the time it took for my class to go over basically all the grammatical principles with some depth. Now, I read a chapter of LLPSI per day, as well as drill some vocab, which takes about an hour to an hour and a half depending on the difficulty of the material and where my head is at. If you think you can handle that much extra work, I'd say go for it after another semester of studying under a professor, as (at least at my college) Intermediate Latin is essentially just reading a lot but in a classroom where you have to wait for other people to read too. I'm certainly learning faster than I was my first year, but I think that first year is an important foundation.

>>22699396
im a history and anthroplogy major, im just learning it for fun. im already taking french courses (ive been doing that since middle school though).

i want to take more latin but it would be too much

>>22699461
>i want to take more latin but it would be too much
well there you go
Focus on your current studies, maybe go over Latin when you have time off, between semesters, weekends. It might help you as a history major but unless you are going into academia you do not need Latin. If just for fun then keep it fun and view studying as a treat.

auxilio mihi estote sodales

>>22699452
>as two semesters was the time it took for my class to go over basically all the grammatical principles with some depth. Now, I read a chapter of LLPSI per day,
The absolute state of modern education

>>22699224
>And lots of languages use literal translations of "thread" to refer to forum threads
Quales? Francogallice "topic" dicitur.

What's the best beginner PDF for Classical Chinese? I want to casually look through it before deciding to learn or not. Yes I know I apparently just missed out on an entire thread about this.

>>22700264
Van Norden is exactly what you're looking for. You can easily read it in a month or so.

>>22700264
Absolute beginner? Classical Chinese for Everyone by Van Norden
Someone wanting to know what there is to read in the language? Any of the How to Read series by Cai Zong-qi

Btw, any fellow CC anons read Cai Zong-qi's new textbook? I'd very much like to know how it is. His How to Read series is a treasure in both making some of the greatest Chinese texts ever accessible to Westerners and looping them into both the Western and Chinese critical traditions. Curious how he'd approach a beginner textbook. It doesn't seem to be on libgen

>>22700166
> Francogallice "topic" dicitur.
Heu, quomodo ceciderunt fortes. Saltem filum francogallico in tabula /int/ "Le Francofil" dicitur.

>>22700346
> francogallico
francogallicum

anyone got a pdf of pharrs homeric greek?

>>22700346
Non mirum Francogallicos qui Anglice colloqui solent ita litterate verbos vertere.

>>22700430
First link in the OP

>>22700346
idem fit italice, "filo" enim anglice "thread" nuncupatur, theodisce quoque "Faden" adhibitur, id est latine ambo versa "filum"

>>22700442
thanks, no idea how I missed that

>>22700445
Censeo omnia illic fila generalia id facere, Latinum ergo verbum convenientissimum mihi videtur.

Am I understanding this right? The fourth principle part of a verb + a version of sum can be either perfect passive or future indicative? So "datus sum" could mean either "I was given" or "I will give", for example?

>>22700671
not really, not classically anyway, the latter's future participle when used at all is active and is built with the -urus ending albeit it's not necessarily used periphrastically with finite forms of sum
Livy likes it a lot
>se impetum hostium, quantum corpore uno posset obsisti, excepturum

>>22700671
No you're thinking of how to form the future participle. You take the fourth principal parts and add urus as the ending. So datus would become daturus, meaning "he who's about to/going to give." Additionally, if you add sum then it's essentially a future progressive, i.e. daturus est "I am about to/going to give."

>>22700705
Daturus sum*

>>22700671
No, you're thinking of the future active participle which is equivalent to the English "I'm going to", i.e. near future as opposed to distant future.
>datus sum: I was given
>daturus sum: I'm about to give
>dabo: I will give
It also serves to form the future infinitive in accusativus cum infinitivo constructions: "dixisti te mihi librum daturum esse".

>>22698978
> Got a cool gothic textbook auf Deutsch from a prof of mine.
>>22694792
> Some people DO read other languages, and if I see shit like "in English that's really the only halfway decent book about the topic; the absolute best work is unfortunately only available in German" (without mentioning the fucking title) ever again...

>>22700749
Clicked the wrong post in my anger: >>22694765

>>22700698
>>22700705
>>22700712
Thank you! I thought I was missing something.

Διογένης ὁ Λαέρτιος ἐγραψε ὁτι οἱ μέν ἐν τοῖς αὐτου ἐλεγον τους βαρβάρους ἂρξαι φιλοσοφίαν, οἱ δε τους Ἕλληνας και φιλοσοφίαν και γένον ἀνθρώπων. δοκεῖ ἔμοιγε τόδε αμφίλογος οὐ μόνον οἱ πάλαι εἶχον, ἀλλὰ ἔτι νῦν διατελέι, οἱ μέν ἐν τῇ ἀκαδεμιᾳ οἱ δε ἐν /ξ/.

>>22700166
Hilo, fadeno, draad, lanka, Diskussionsfaden, νήμα, szál, þráður, snáithe, wątek (well, that means specifically weft, but pretty close), nit, vlákno, tråd... and that's just what Wiktionary lists.

>>22701123
Thrathur is a good one in the spirit of this thrathur

>>22700749
Is this just you seething about being a monolingual anglo? Cuz it feels like it but maybe I'm wrong and just not getting it. I'm the gothic textbook guy btw

>>22701307
No? To the contrary. In the second part of my frogpost I was quoting myself, if that helps.
I'm seething because ESLs here keep mentioning that there are cool books in their language, dann aber offensichtlich annehmen, dass niemand sonst ihre Sprache spricht, und den Namen des Buchs nicht mal erwähnen.

>>22701337
Lol I get it now. Not esl btw, just a German speaking anglo. Lemme go find the book real quick and I'll post it for ya

>>22701337
Gotische grammatik von Wilhelm braune

>>22701347
>>22701357
Thanks!

>>22701366
Gern geschehen bruder. Hast du lust für andere germanische sprachen such, wie Alt Englisch? Ich kann viel bücher empfehlen

>>22701373
Muss gleich weg, aber wer auch immer in Zukunft ins Archiv schaut wird dir für die Empfehlungen danken.

What exactly is a "classical" language?
I used to think it just meant the languages spoken during the classical period (greek and Latin). But in this thread you seem to imply any dead language with some literature is a classical language. What does classical mean?

>>22701298
It's Icelandic, but presumably the word is similar in Old Norse.

>>22701565
Prob thrathr in Old Norse. I think icelanders added a u. Thanks for catching me on that tho I shoulda known

>>22701495
Go read the last thread we literally already discussed this. Imo a classical language is the first written form of a language and the ensuing literature that follows up until a major shift in grammar and vocab and syntax and shit like what happened from old to middle English. Many people disagree but that's fine, I just think that old English and Old Norse and other languages that aren't always considered classic to be classical. I also know Greek and Latin so this isn't just coping, if that helps.

>>22701589
Sorry I kinda came off rude in that first sentence. I'm hangry.

>>22701495
Any language that has had overwhelming influence as a carrier of culture across nations. Latin, Greek, Sanskrit, Classical Chinese, Arabic, maybe Hebrew.

>>22702337
Do they have to be ancient/ dead languages?

>>22702483
I'd say no. Classical Latin was still classical when it was alive, imo.

>>22701495
Any language that has a tradition and/or living practice of classical philology. The most significant are obviously those named above, but it isn't a closed set.

>>22702483
For something to be identified as classical, it should at least vary fairly greatly from any vernacular. Classical Arabic is obviously still alive (bearing the distinction of being the only world-defining language that has not yet passed out of everyday usage) but is to Arabic vernaculars as Latin is to Romance languages.

By the way, have we ever had any Arabanons around? I learned conversational Masri from my Egyptian roommate in China but never went much further. Arabic poetic meters/traditional scansion through forms of فعل are fascinating.

>>22702337
Strong definition and list, Persian belongs there too though along with Sumerian or Akkadian. I know less than nothing about Egyptian and afaik it didn't have much literature but there's probably an argument for it as well.

Why does everyone say Arabic is hard? Shouldn't it be easy like Hebrew?

>>22702705
Arabic has a much larger vocabulary, very many irregular forms, a complicated plural system, and a case system that resembles but is very unlike that of Greek and Latin.

>>22702705
Also, Hebrew has one major text, albeit the most major text ever. Arabic has very many.

Do I need to know Mandarin before starting on Classical Chinese?

>>22703010
check the FAQ
the one classical chinese anon who suggested the books and stuff to add said it helps but it's not necessary, idk myself

>>22703010
Mando is not necessary. However, not knowing any sinosphere language will mean you have to grind Chinese characters.

>>22703010
See https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=39905

>>22704157
>I know of many schools that require two, three, or even four years of Mandarin for students who wish to enroll in an introductory LS/CC course.
academicucks keep losing

>>22704185
t. Uni dropout at best (he made it to second semester of first year)

>>22704185
Far from "owning the academicucks," Victor H Mair is here calling for the restoration of more serious tradition before Sinology departments became training centers for expat wastrel. Never seen VHM wrong about anything.

Recommend me a good greek reader pls. I'd say I'm intermediate level but I don't feel confident enough to read original authors just yet.

>>22704773
Italian Athenaze or Logos: Lingua Graeca
A Greek Boy at Home or The Greek War of Independence (yes, there's an Attic Greek reader by this name)

>>22704773
try Morice's Attic stories
early stories are easier, later ones somewhat harder

>>22695453
what's the best way for a retard with no prior experience to learn latin

>>22704966
nvm, i was too retarded to read the rentry

>>22704966
Stary with a very noob friendly book like the "Reading Latin" course. Then switch to Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata after four or so chapters.
Alternatively, use Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata as your main book from the start, but it's very likely you'll need help in the first chapters, being in the form or a grammar or asking people in the internet.
Some people recommend using Wheelock and Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata at the same time.

>>22704966
You should use a gentle introduction book to see if you like it. If you like it and keep reading from varied textbooks every day for about a year or so, you'll be able to read easy Latin writers before you know it. If you don't like it and treat your textbook as homework that you have to do for some weird reason, then you probably won't enjoy reading in Latin even if you do somehow manage to make it. It's as simple as that.

>>22702487
Are there any living languages that would qualify as classical today?

>>22702607
Linguists generally use the word 'alive' to mean 'having living native speakers', which MSA doesn't. (Living speakers, certainly, but not native ones.)

My copy of 古文觀止, one of the few books I had the good sense to bring back from my time in China. Excellent printing and font. I wish newer PRC editions were this good.

>>22705051
獲麟解 by 韓愈 for a sample. One of the all time great essays from the Tang.

>>22704984
The Peter Jones course or the Cambridge one?

>>22705037
Strong definition. There is still a very clear difference between the usage of MSA and the other big five

>>22704966
Don't do LLPSI

>>22705055
>雖婦人小子皆知其為祥也
Ouch lol

>>22705083
Very beautiful essay. The conceit of it is that the unicorn is Han Yu himself lol

>>22705075
What's wrong with llpsi?

>>22705095
Is that what it is? I wasn't quite picking up on that lol

>>22705067
Peter Jones

>>22705099
Cum liber ille optimus sit, tamen nonnulli sunt in 4chan cinaedi qui credant grammatica nomina scire idem esse ac Latine loqui posse. Noli curare eos.

>>22705099
Meme method pushed by perpetual Latin 101'ers who fetishize the learning process as part of some "dark academia" thing. Just look at people recommending you to use three different books or start with one then switch to another etc. Just pick a fucking book other than LLPSI and do it for a few months. If you're still talking about what textbook you use after 3-4 months (the length of an average semester) of studying Latin at a reasonable pace, you have failed. LLPSIfags are debating which set of training wheels gives you a 2.7% better drag coefficient on your bike.

>>22705198
So should I just pick up a pdf of the cambridge latin textbooks and just go from there

>>22705198
Quo libro tu usus es? Potesne hodie latine loqui aut saltem legere?

>>22705245
In my opinion yes, or any other one that looks good to you. You could even use LLPSI as long as you actually push through it, I just don't trust the meme method pushers and I see even them complaining about how it's boring as fuck early on.

>>22705265
I used Cambridge but only did the first three volumes. I think speaking Latin is gay reddit shit, and isn't a product of magically learning Latin a certain way, but of practicing speaking a lot. You could learn to speak any conlang in the same way.

I was the "best" Latin speaker in class because I am not American so I actually attempted to pronounce things properly, and I would often read out loud when studying. Over time you get used to it and can do it reasonably fluidly. I think there's some small value in this, as the people who didn't actually learn the language's accent rules and rhythms had more trouble in class from what I could tell.

Overall I think learning to write Latin is far more valuable than speaking it. Even just writing emails back and forth with a friend.

>>22705296
Potesne autem latine scribere tua sponte?

>LLPSI osor nil poscenti latine verba proferre respondit
nil sub sole novi

>>22705440
It's gay and reddit. It's fun to do with a friend but as a dick measuring thing it's just gay. Also stupid, since it doesn't measure anything. It's not like a deponent taking an ablative object is some esoteric thing only "natural Latin learners" acquire knowledge of via mystical anamnesis.

But I am weird, I don't like the recent surge of dark academia fags using Latin as a fashion object.

>>22705459
>possim si velim, sed nolo. credite mihi, quaeso.

>>22705440
Risi viva voce picturā illā

>>22705459
To my understanding there's some evidence for being able to use the language actively being good for comprehension as well.

>>22705107
Yes, or at least that's what the entire tradition of interpretation says about it. Han Yu was a Confucian traditionalist who mourned having been born in an era when his school seemed to be in decline while the barbarian Buddhism was on the rise. He was here probably lashing out that his (obvious) talent could serve no saint in his own time. Even without that angle though it's a remarkable piece on how we may not recognize the 祥 in front of us.

>>22705500
I agree, and if it's your thing that's cool. I just think Ranieri is gay and the anon above is gay.

I also think writing longer things is best. Like short stories or a journal, or emails. The main thing being that it forces you to look shit up and learn it properly instead of just recognizing it in the wild and having approximate knowledge of it.

>>22705075
>>22705198
>>22705296
>>22705459
To be honest, I dislike one book fanatics too.
But you are just butthurt.

>>22705198
based

>>22705019
Idk, haven't looked into it, but probably. And I think that's pretty fucking cool personally.

>>22705164
Wew lad

>>22705019
Maybe Mayan. Though it is rapidly going extinct

>>22705440
Profecto constat discenti plus quam singulum in discendo librum necesse. LLPSI affatim linguae Latinae docendae methodo fructificat; stulte tamen disputes si librum definitivum supervacuum affirmare audeas.
Mihi praeterea filum optimum erat cum de LLPSI non iterum iterumque litigaremus. Quaeso; reditote, Sinicae studiosi.

>>22695640
you're good bro. no one will care if you're a good math otherwise.

>>22705984
>necesse
necesse adhibere*

I haven't really done any of my Latin for a few months now but I'm getting back into it with my holidays since I have plenty of time to study it. I can read some 30% of Caesar at a given page and I've not been the best with remembering grammatical concepts. My plan was to have on a cycle of reading Caesar then Sallust for an hour every day swapping between the two and reading the Vulgate for a sort of easier warm up.

Is there any particular way anybody here studies text? My thought was I would just read over a random page or two a few times and not down the grammar if I don't get it right away and look up vocab till I understand the passages.

>>22706498
I use monkeytype.com and I use various Bible translations of Acts of the Apostles. I think that is pretty particular.

>>22706498
>prepare text, notepad, pen or pencil
>read
>when you come to a word or phrase you do not understand or recall write it down
>keep reading
>try to comprehend as much as possible
>stop at end of section (length determined by you)
>now go through dictionary and define all the words on your list
>also look up grammatical terms, consult references, review textbooks if necessary
>reread section referring to notes only when necessary
>repeat
You may have to read a section 5 or 6 times but eventually you will not need notes and will comprehend the language itself.
The above method is guaranteed to work. It separates Greek/Latin from English as much as possible and keeps you focused on one aspect at a time. It also provides a handy reference of your progress over time and illustrates your weak points. If the same word keeps showing up in your notes then you should focus on learning it.

>>22706498
There are many methods, but all of them boil down to being alright with not getting everything on a first reading. That's true of any text in any language anyway.

>>22701589
Arabic was probably being written in 800 BC. That's over a thousand years before Muhammad and Classical Arabic. I can't find a source on that right now. The earliest thing I can find on Wikipedia is 3rd century BC.
Oracle Bone Script was 1250 BC, and Confucius was 500 BC. Classical language has little to do with the earliest stage of a language. Classical music, for instance, is far from being the earliest stage of written music.

>>22705459
>It's fun to do with a friend
That's exactly what people is doing here
>as a dick measuring thing it's just gay
>Latin as a fashion object
Not happening since none of them is namefaggging on this godforsaken anonymous Tibetan gong playing news aggregator.
For some reason it just seems that some people simply seethe at others using the language they're studying, for some reason. I wonder why.

>>22707467
>some people simply seethe at others using the language they're studying
The exact opposite happened in the reply chain you responded to. One guy writes in English and even recommends writing Latin to a friend. Then another anon responds in Latin and chimps over not being replied to in Latin. Pay attention.

>>22707673
How's weather in your alternative reality?

>>22706656
Fair point actually. My definition needs work. Basically, I think every language is entitled to a classical period is where I'm coming from

Does anyone know a good resource for an early Gaelic or Welsh or Irish language? I don't really know much about the history of the Isles, especially not linguistically, and so I don't know have the foggiest idea what even fits the description of "a language spoken by people on that island over a thousand years ago".

>>22708168
But having a classical period doesn't make a language classical to people outside of its sphere of influence, unlike what the main classical languages accomplished by being important carriers of culture.

>>22708415
All carriers of culture are important enough to have a classical period. I just won't cede this point, and I get it if it's divisive or whatever. Sorry.

>>22706498
Aim to understand 70-90% of text properly, but give yourself a break on the other 10-30% that is brutally difficult or weird/rare. This gives you a good balance of extensive and intensive reading. Then just read a lot, steadily. And read things you actually enjoy reading and care about. Sometimes it's even better to read something above your level, if you find yourself being "pulled" along with it and actually doing it, than it is to read something at or below your level that should theoretically be easier but that you notice yourself not doing every day.

>Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.
- Beckett

>Εἰ γάρ κεν καὶ σμικρὸν ἐπὶ σμικρῷ καταθεῖο καὶ θαμὰ τοῦτ᾽ ἔρδοις, τάχα κεν μέγα καὶ τὸ γένοιτο.
- Hesiod

>>22705945
Isn't there a distinction between classical Mayan and the modern dialects?

>>22698157
Grassatores ad Inferos eant! Non sunt amici isti cinaedi qui linguam Graecum discunt, sed nosmet tibi amici, robora virorum, erimus.

Xenophon's Anabasis is way harder than people let on. Not because of the vocab or grammar, just all the random ancient military tactics. What's the difference between επι φαλαγξ, κατα φαλαγξ and επι λοχος? Νow picture the επι λοχος αναβαινει επι το ορος εξω τους πολεμιους κατα φαλαγξ
Memorabilia is a better beginner text desutbh

>>22706586
This is a good method if you stick with it. I would recommend making audio recordings too, it will help drill the vocab into you and help you understand the Greek/Latin by itself.

What is /clg/ reading this week?
I'm reading 漢語語法史 by 王力. It's a diachronic treatment of Classical Chinese grammar. The language is Mandarin, but for those who can read that language, it's superior to Vogelsang for the active reader of CC. I intend to read his 漢語詩律學 next, which is on Chinese meters.
I'm also revisiting some Theognis since I read Nietzsche's essay on him for the first time recently.

>>22709586
I don't disagree, but that difficulty is mitigated by the repetitiousness of the text. We also have to remember that it's the traditional beginner's text in no small part because it was private school boys reading it whose fathers and grandfathers had likely fought in various wars: of course military adventure would draw them in and allow a not insignificant portion of them to read a bit above their level.

>>22709776
I'm reading Jerome's translation of Genesis at present, and may dip into Spinoza's theologo-political treatise if I'm not too tired.

Why did English stop using runes? Aslo, what are the definitive books on anglo-saxon runes

>>22708397
I know nothing about Gaelic, but for Welsh use the 60's Teach Yourself course to learn Literary Welsh and you should be able to read as far back as 1500's with a dictionary.

After that, study Middle Welsh here for free:
>https://www.mit.edu/people/dfm/canol/index.html
And also check out Cymraec Canawl: An Introduction to Middle Welsh.
>https://www.amazon.com/dp/3969390192/

For Old Welsh, it's more difficult to find resources.All I can find are these but I have not read them and I don't know how useful they are:
>https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B2TNSL41/
>https://web.archive.org/web/20181117110340/http://people.ds.cam.ac.uk/dwew2/old_and_middle_welsh.pdf

>>22709776
I'm studying my flash cards today. I don't think I'm ready to go on to learning second declension noun endings yet.

AH BITCH ALL THESE RULES

>>22706498
Zoomores identificare semper conor, propter imagines eorum cinaedas

Thought this was interesting
>https://www.reddit.com/r/latin/comments/17tm2ln/classical_texts_are_boring/
inb4 reddit

Not so much on texts being boring because the OP is just trying to flex like an ass but the comments. It's pretty easy to see why Caesar is always recommended for the first Classical text, it has excellent prose, covers an interesting topic (to most people who learn Latin, anyway) and has nuance. So what kinds of texts does /clg/ like to read?

>>22710680
fuck you for linking that. That thread was bad even for Plebbit.

>>22710680
>So what kinds of texts does /clg/ like to read?
you could have just asked this without outing yourself

>>22709776
finished the Theogony but I'm going to re-read it i bulk as I always do, also rereading Plautus' Amphitruo for lulz

How important is all this accent stuff for Greek? My book is giving endless autistic rules about them and honestly I don't really understand the reason behind this. Am I screwing myself over if I don't pay attention to the accents now? Will it become clearer later?

>>22695640
>>22695673
>>22695917
>>22697274
>>22697551
>>22698157
>>22698278
>>22698762
>>22700431
>>22700576

Just recently have begun learning latin due to attending latin mass. What sources do you use to learn latin bros? Any good books for learning? Any classical stories written in latin for a beginner? Do you learn purely online? Is there a place or website I could practice speaking with someome?

>>22711379
I think hearing a language is part of the experience especially with poetry and you should actually see this seemingly intricate system Greeks developed as a blessing compared to Latin's dry orthographic tradition.
I honestly never found it complicated because the limitation laws mostly follow from a musical pattern of rise and fall, they aren't so arbitrary.
Check this site http://atticgreek.org/accent/accentuation.html

>>22711379
Make sure you know how to pronounce them. Knowing how to produce them for each word them doesn't matter unless you're going to get into spoken Ancient Greek.
They're more important for poetry also so I would study them a bit more before you delve into Homer, but for prose they're not super important. Generally they're just something you pick up by reading, especially out loud.

>>22711382
check the FAQ
we can try to converse in Latin here, this thread has probably the most written Latin in a while

τι οὐδείς οὐδέποτε ἐθέλοι λαλεῖν ἐν τῇ Ἑλληνικῃ; Λατίνδαιμονες μήν νικούσι ἡμάς...καί οὐδείς ἔτι ἐν τῷδε ἐλεγε περί τῆς γλῶσσης, ὡς δοκεῖ ἔμοιγε

>>22711662
ἡμεῖς τὰ πόλλα ἄσχολοι τὴν γλῶσσαν ἀσκοῦντές τε καὶ βίβλια ἀναγιγνώσκοντες ὥστε μηδὲνα χρόνον διατρίβειν φλυαροῦντας περὶ καπνοῦ

>>22711662
Num putas me οὐ ἐθέλειν Graece loqui? Reapse tirunculus sum, ne librum meum definitivum quidem perfeci. Tecum haud possibile est mihi garrire, quiris.

>>22711700
ἀληθῶς εἶπες, ἀλλά τι ἀναγιγώσκεις νῦν; ἀσκεῖν γάρ το ἀναγιγώσκειν ἀριστος ἐστίν ἀλλά το λαλεῖν ἀγαθός γε

>>22711714
τίς δύναται ἀκριβῶς μεθερμηνεύειν;

>>22711714
>οὐ ἐθέλειν
οὐκ*
Videte quantus tirunculus sim.

>>22711729
ἐπανέγνωκ' αὖθις σήμερον ἐκατόν καί τι στίχους τῆς Θεογονίας τοῦ Ἡσιόδου, εἶτ' ὥς μοι δοκεῖ ἀναγνωτέα Ἔργα καὶ Ἡμέραι

In Classical Hebrew, what's the word or idiom for wanting to do something?
For example, I could write
> מִי פֹּה רוֹצֶה לִכְתֹּב בִּלְשׁוֹן הַקּוֹדֶשׁ
but that sense of רוֹצֶה is Modern, or at least late Classical.
How would you write that in proper Biblical Hebrew?

ἐπῐγρᾰφή

>>22711382
I learned with the book Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata and asking in a discord every time I didn't understand something.
I won't give you more details because there are certain users here that seethe and the mere mention of that book.
Bottom line is just chose a book and study it, there are many options.
...
Vos, qui librum meum odistis, taceatis quaeso. Nil curo nugas vestras, itaque nolite me respondere.
Vestras quidem sententias foramini culi inseratis, dum mihi non monstretis.

>>22711662
>Λατίνδαιμονες μήν νικούσι ἡμάς
I'm glad you know your place, graecule superbe.

>>22711382
Maybe you could ask your priest how he learned Latin?

>>22712619
εἶρξον δεῖλε πιθηκογενές νῦν ἕρκος ὀδόντων

>>22712704
Bene, os claudam, si voles. Tu autem nullo modo illud facias, nam si os claudes, mentulam abscindes.

>>22712797
>si voles
>voles
οὐ μὰ Δί' ἐγὼ πετεινὸς πέφυκα

Now working on 2nd declension nouns.

>>22712854
Voles est "vis" tempore futuro
Num vos Graeci futurum intellegere non potestis nisi in iis littera sigma videtis?

>>22712860
fundatus

>>22703010
trying to start CC from scratch with no knowledge of characters or Mandarin grammar (which would help you with some aspects of comprehension) would be tough

I'm currently midway through Fuller and my Mandarin knowledge has been a great help

i.e. “婴儿之时” is immediately obvious in meaning, but someone with no experience might not recognise 之时 as meaning "when" since it's just relativiser+time

>>22703010
No, just like you don't need to know French before starting on Latin.

>>22712872
>Voles est "vis" tempore futuro
ὑπόπτιστον, οὐχί ἆρ' ἤδη ᾔτησά σε σιωπᾶν; διὰ τί μέλλοιμ' ἄν ἐν τῷ ἔπειτα;
πῶς δὲ καλεῖσθον τώδε πρότασις καὶ ἀπόδοσις ὅπη πρότασις μὲν μέλλοντα χρόνον καὶ ὁριστικὴν ἔγκλισιν, ἀπόδοσις δὲ ὑποτακτικὴν ἔγκλισιν ἔχετον; ἴσως ἐπελαθόμην

>>22712614
>I learned
kek

Translate into [TL]
>Easy:
The true philosophers discourse about mathematics, the false about the nature of each thing and the gods, and the falsest about politics
>Medium
Most of those who have spoken here before me have commended the lawgiver who added this oration to our other funeral customs. It seemed to them a worthy thing that such an honor should be given at their burial to the dead who have fallen on the field of battle. But I should have preferred that, when men's deeds have been brave, they should be honored in deed only, and with such an honor as this public funeral, which you are now witnessing. Then the reputation of many would not have been imperiled on the eloquence or want of eloquence of one, and their virtues believed or not as he spoke well or ill. For it is difficult to say neither too little nor too much; and even moderation is apt not to give the impression of truthfulness. The friend of the dead who knows the facts is likely to think that the words of the speaker fall short of his knowledge and of his wishes; another who is not so well informed, when he hears of anything which surpasses his own powers, will be envious and will suspect exaggeration. Mankind are tolerant of the praises of others so long as each hearer thinks that he can do as well or nearly as well himself, but, when the speaker rises above him, jealousy is aroused and he begins to be incredulous. However, since our ancestors have set the seal of their approval upon the practice, I must obey, and to the utmost of my power shall endeavor to satisfy the wishes and beliefs of all who hear me.
>Hard
The red dog ate the fig
>INSANE MODE
Philippos: How much is this loaf of bread?
Pseudologos: 3 drachma
Philippos: Your name befits you

>>22712973
contumelias tibi iam non dicam sed saltem dicas mihi rogo quo libro usus sis ad linguam Graecam discendam?

>>22710226
thank you brother!

Draft 0.1 of my Chinese infographic. Let me know what to change.
I definitely want to add greater emphasis on the value of memorizing poetry right from the beginning. I'm not sure how to represent that visually, though.

>>22713301
I don't see what's so great about learning Sinographs without the context of the language they're used for.

>>22713187
εἶεν· τῷ καλουμένῳ «Ἀθήναζε» ἐκεχρήμην, καλλίστῳ τινὶ βιβλίῳ ὥς μοι δοκεῖ, Ἰταλιστὶ τὴν γλῶσσαν ὅ οἱ πολλοὶ ἄμεινον ἡγοῦνται τοῦ Ἀγγλιστί· ἔπειτα βιβίον τι τῶν ἁπλῶν μύθων ὑπὸ Ἀγγλιστὶ «Morice» γεγραμμένον ὀνόματι «Stories in Attic»· τούτων ἀκριβῶς ἀνεγνωσμένων, ἦρξα Χενοφῶντα ἀναγιγνώσκειν

>>22713301
My bad. The caption for 300 Tang Poems is meant to read
>Memorize one per day and you will be almost as cultured as a precocious Chinese kid.

>>22713307
Necessary evil. Van Norden is very gentle, but even then I don't see how someone without at least two weeks of Sinograph study is supposed to keep up with it. I may be wrong, since I learned them as a kid.

>>22713309
χαριν σοι οιδα

>>22713150
Easy:
Philisopi veri disserunt de mathematica, falsi de omnium natura disque, falsissimi de civilitate.
Medium:
Plerique qui antea hic oravissent laudaverunt legis latorem qui hunc orationem adiecit consuetudinibus funereis ceteris.
Ita id valere visum est talem honorem dare mortuis qui in campo belli cecidissent sepultura horum. Praeferam...(nescio iam quomodo id dicam. Si te placeat adiuva me!)
Hard:
Canis ruber ficum edit.

New here, is the rivalry between Latin and Greek learners ITT an inside joke or a real case of 4chan tribalism?

>>22713655
just a joke, everyone into one of those languages eventually learns the other.

Are there different types of classical Chinese? Like, if you want to read texts from a certain dynasty do you have to learn essentially a whole new language?

>>22713655
mostly a joke, although and like
>>22713662
said almost everyone that learns one eventually learns the other. The real way we should be judging people is for which one they learn first. If you learn latin first, you're a certified fucking retard

>>22713693
There are of course different periods, styles, dialects. The phonetically opaque nature of the script and highly conservative literary culture however bring them all closer together than they would otherwise be. Therefore, though texts from familiar periods and genres will be easier, there's never such thing is "oh it's time to start from scratch and learn Sui-ish."
On that note, a funny feature of CC is that the core texts of the classical period are generally easiest. Later texts, especially essays, get so allusive as to become somewhat maddening. This is part of the value of reading the core texts + 古文觀止 first, and part of why I recommend readers such as Cai's.

>>22713872
As a quick follow-up, I will add: vernacularizers exist in every period and those can indeed be difficult to approach without some preparation and intuition. It's hardly equivalent to a new language or even to an unfamiliar Greek dialect though.

>>22713788
>If you learn latin first, you're a certified fucking retard
Cur mehercle? Certe facilior ex duabus est, propriaque affatim inducit linguarum flexivarum quo facilius alias discere sit.
Mihi igitur non appareo qua de causa lingua graeca primum discenda sit; tamen imperitus deferam ad consilium tuum si explanare dignes.

>>22714107
>appareo
apparet*

>>22710072
Seems better for scrawling than for writing. Compare the shift by ancient Semites away from inscriptional Phoenician toward Aramaic cursive.

>>22698157
iocaris, nonne? nil fabulae istius retardatae evenit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bYldqEjOUA&ab_channel=MeditationMusics

lofi beats to grind vocab and learn declensions to.

ἐπανεληλύθαμέν γε

>>22712614
>misleading beginners purposely with books and methods of questionable quality
delete system 32 amirite? ;-P

I'm going to learn Italian by exclusively reading Athenaze and translating from Greek into Italian

>>22711762
ἠργαζόμην καί ἐπειτα καθηύδον, ἀλλά νῦν ἐγειρω. ἔχω χαρίν σοι ὑπομενοντι.
τι δοκεῖ σοι ὅτι Ἡσιοδος ἐγραψε περι ἑαυτου ἐν Ἔργοις και Ἡμέραις;
Ὁμερος γάρ οὐδέποτε ἐγραψε οὐδε το ὀνομα ἑαυτω ἐν τῇ Ἰλιαδι καί οὐκ περί βίου

Why is Hellenistic prose so ass?

>>22715032
χαῖρε
>Ἡσιοδος ἐγραψε περι ἑαυτου ἐν Ἔργοις και Ἡμέραις;
καλόν, οὐκ ᾔδειν τοῦτο, ἐς τὸ νῦν οὔπω ἦρξα ἀναγνῶναι τόδε βιβλίον, βουλοίμην ἄν πρῶτον δευτέραν ἀνάγνωσιν ἐπιτελέσαι τῆς Θεογονίας· περὶ τῶν παλαιῶν βίων ἀνέγνωκά τι μέρος τοῦ Διογένου Λαερτίαδου ἀλλ' ὁ ἔγραψε περὶ τῶν φιλοσόφων τὰ πολλά

Objectively the best way to study after you understand grammar and basic vocab (i.e 500-1000 most common words)
>Get Loeb edition w./ a recorded audiobook (you can find a fair few on YouTube, Archive.org or LibriVox, but a lot are shit, especially for Greek, and a lot of Greek ones are also with modern pronunciation, so beware.) or record your own as you go
>Read as much G/L as you can understand while listening to audio and try to understand while going at the pace of the audio, then reread w.o/ audio and check English for anything you don't understand
>Restart audio and read again. Continue until you fully understand the G/L without having to check the English
>Walk around listening to only audio obsessively until you understand it fully
>Keep adding chunks until you understand the whole book

>>22715652
> i.e 500-1000 most common words
Too few, I would go for 2000-3000 before I tackle any authentic text.

>>22715652
Any recommendations for Latin audiobooks in reconstructed pronunciation?

A lot of Latin and AG talking in this thread.

>>22715715
The DBG and Historia Apollonii audiobooks seem to be pretty good on Librivox although DBG has a clear Scandi accent. There are also good recordings of the Aeneid books 1-2 on YouTube.
Mostly I just record my own (I would generally recommend this since you should be reading aloud anyway, and it will force you to have clear pronunciation) thoughbeit so someone else might have some more suggestions

>>22715797
Thanks. Kind of ruins the immersion with ancient works, if there's always a native accent shining through. That's one thing that you-know-who (PBUH) does well.

Less of a problem with medieval/Christian works, where I'd also be fine with Ecclesiastical pronunciation. I like this Vulgate recording, but the guy will take years to get to the NT: https://archive.org/details/Vulgata_Clementina/bibliasacra_001_vulgataclementina_128kb.mp3

I translated my first sentence from Greek to English today. I've still not committed the declensions to memory, and I had to reference vocab a lot, but I did it. I'm starting to understand.

>>22715852
congratulor tibi, rex

>>22715852
כֻּלָּנוּ נוּכַל (or however you'd translate "to make it" into BH)

>>22713309
Faciebasne pensa cum Athenaze legebas?

>>22716142
quae inveniuntur ipso in libro, profecto, omnia perfeci
adhibui quoque situm hunc http://www.poesialatina.it/_ns/Greek/vrb/TestLyo3.html ut declinationes exercerem coniugationesque, verte sis anglice aut quolibet sermone si italice verba non tenes

>>22715831
Yeah Bedwere is the best Greek recorder besides Stratakis (but he makes you pay like $80 for one book) so I'm not surprised he's good at Latin

>>22715852
πάντες ἡμείς τελοῦμεν.
λέγω σοι καί δή καί μεθερμηνεύε Ἀνγλίκην είς Ἑλληνικήν

>>22715652
>and a lot of Greek ones are also with modern pronunciation, so beware
What if you're learning in modern pronunciation? Some people might prefer to.

>>22715852
Translating and understanding are not the same thing.

>>22716242
Yeah if you are then it's better but I assume most people here aren't. They're also harder to listen to on their own due to iotacism.

>>22716252
Way to be a bitchy cock about someone doing a good thing.

>>22716511
It's important to understand the difference, though.

>>22716252
Insufferable faggot

>>22718505
Calling me names doesn't change the facts.

>>22715852
Good job, keep it up.

Let's lay off the beginners. Nobody needs discouragement when they could frankly just as well neither be translating nor understanding.

>>22718544
If you get into the habit of translating and then understanding that rather than understanding the original directly it can be a hard habit to break, though.

>>22718565
Apparently discouraging beginners is a hard habit to break as well

>>22718646
I'm not saying don't learn, I'm saying don't go about learning in a way that leads to bad habits that will be hard to unlearn.

>>22718678
Are you a power bottom or do you and your boyfriend take turns?

>>22718709
I'm single lol. And a girl.

>>22718726
troon
ywnbaw

>>22718729
Is there any possible circumstance under which you wouldn't accuse someone claiming to be a woman of being a tranny?

>>22718731
on /clg/? no
he is a troon

>>22718731
Sure, post tits with timestamp.
You know the rules cunt.

>>22718736
You think there's only one woman in the entire general?
>>22718739
Last time I did that I got banned for three days.

>>22718764
>Last time I did that I got banned for three days.
Never happened, not an excuse.

>>22719373
It literally did. Nudity isn't allowed on blue boards.

>>22718565
I will say though having to translate on the spot in class does encourage a good deal of understanding if you're doing it fast enough.

>>22718726
you're on /clg/ saying that you're single is superfluous.

πρός γε μὴν τὴν κατὰ τὰς πράξεις καὶ τὸ ἦθος καλοκαγαθίαν πάντων ἄν αὕτη μάλιστα διορατικοὺς κατασκευάσειεν ἀπὸ τῆς περὶ τὰ θεῖα θεωρουμένης ὁμοιότητος καὶ εὐταξίας καὶ συμμετρίας καὶ ἀτυφίας...
-Ptolemy

>>22719656
Fair enough lol

>>22718565
>>22716252
It was an exercise in my textbook where you have to point out which parts of a sentence were connected by a conjunction, state their grammatical role (indirect object, for example) and then translate the whole sentence to English.

>>22719384
Who said anything about nudity? Wear a bra and hold up a timestamp and brief message.

I remember back in undergrad when the smaller humanities departments had this pattern of becoming small polycules until someone got expelled. Please don't do this here.

>>22720138
>I'll never be in on the Classics department cuddle puddle

>>22719742
there's no point in doing that if you barely even understand the vocabulary desu.

>>22720138
I don't think I'll like the answer, but wtf is a polycule?

is there something like this for verbs?
https://www.thelatinlibrary.com/decl.html

>>22720158
When a bunch of nerds pretend polyamory is anything less than gross.

>>22720158
A relationship involving more than 2 people. The most common kind of polycule is a tricule, in which three people are in a simultaneous romantic relationship with each other.

Why are you guys talking about that in /clg/
At least do it in Latin if you are going to talk unrelated crap

>>22718565
How could one possibly go about consciously avoiding this? It seems like the subvocalizing thing that used to be a meme, where it's just calculated to make people stress about an involuntary reflex in a way that actually makes it much harder not to do it.

>>22720181
cry more bitch neegus

>>22720188
A literate person can't at the lower stages, not really.

>>22720161
check one of these
https://students.open.ac.uk/arts/a276/OU_Interactive_Latin/
https://magistrula.herokuapp.com/latin/charts?cap=adv&quiz=conj&ind&act&egoS&tuS&illeS&nosS&vosS&illiS&mac=essMac

Chinese Infographic version 0.2. Please let me know what to change.
The other parts haven't been deleted. Rather, I'm figuring out how to work them back in.

Some subbed an episode of that witch show into Latin. It was really fun to watch, a nice break from just reading old texts. Has anyone else done a decent amount of work in subbing anime into Latin?

>>22719930
Fine, if you insist. Sorry for poor framing, my phone doesn't have a front-facing camera so I had to take it essentially blind.

>>22721411
and you speak latin?

>>22720188
I don't think it's completely unavoidable. For example, when you read the word 'canis', instead of thinking 'that means "dog"' and then picturing a dog, just picture a dog. For bigger modern languages a useful trick can be using image search as a sort of picture dictionary- for example, you'll find that the prototypical mental images called up by "house", "casa", "घर", and "دار" are not the same, even if you'll find them as translations of each other in a dictionary.

>>22721440
More Classical Chinese than Latin, but that's still a classical language.

>>22721478
I see................... in a university?

>>22720940
>Q: Where can I speak Classical Chinese with others?
>A: You probably can't.
Orally, anyway, but there are plenty of 筆談 spaces; I'm in a couple. (I admit I'd like to hold an oral conversation in CC some day, but it's something of a pipe dream.)
>How to find a method that works for you is heavily covered elsewhere and outside the scope of this infographic.
You might at least mention the existence of phonetic components; it seems like a lot of introductory courses fail to even mention they exist, but being aware of them can be very helpful.

>>22721485
No, self-studied, because Classical Chinese courses are hard to come by in American universities. I have taken a semester of Latin and a couple of Greek, but I didn't progress as far as I have with CC since I've been learning it on and off since high school.

>>22721443
Fair, but anytime you're consciously thinking "uh oh I can't be translating this, better picture it instead" the English word is still gonna pop into your head uncalled for. But I do think that's a good exercise. Doesn't really work for abstract words but maybe you can think about images you associate with those words in your native language and try to use those? Idk.

>>22714804
I dream they could remake it in Latin.

>>22721411
NEF

What do people think of Cornelius Nepos here?

>>22721647
I think you can still visualize abstract words after some manner. After all, they still refer ultimately to things in physical reality- they wouldn't mean anything if they didn't- just at a more abstracted level. So when you read "imports increased", actually picture more ships coming into a harbor.
>>22721658
What?

>>22721411
Based esperanto anonette

>>22721411
I think we may have met at some point in real life. To preserve anonymity, that's all I'll say.

>>22721486
I think Van Norden mentions them. I must admit either way that I've avoided adding detail on learning sinographs as an adult because I can't speak from experience on that.

>>22722073
Aww, now I'm really curious why you think that.

>>22721672
for a good reason it's up there with Caesar as beginner Latin, pretty smooth reading experience

>>22695453
I for one am liking how language is evolving in real time these days. Rizz is a funny word that i've enjoyed a lot recently.

>>22721443
>For bigger modern languages a useful trick can be using image search as a sort of picture dictionary
I use pictures on my Latin flashcards which I find really helps, though I still struggle with not translating some of the connectice words into english in my head, since you can't really visualize "therefor" or "in such a way"

>>22722264
I feel like you can visualize the whole thought even if you can't visualize the individual connecting word. Like visualize the particular way they did the thing, or picture the two facts and an arrow between them for "therefore".

>>22720940
Why the poem thing? I don't really think it's that useful as it's even more removed from syntax and won't help you much with characters if you don't learn the meaning, and at that point it's just a normal text. I'd deemphasise it

Also please point out that CC for everyone is optional if you have good prior Mandarin knowledge, I can attest to this as I started Fuller off the bat with no difficulties thanks to prior Mandarin knowledge

>>22713150
红狗所食,无花果也

>>22722824
Yes, I wrote the section on that poem badly. Of course one must learn the meaning. Maybe I'll replace that section with a recommendation for the book 19 Ways of Looking at Wang Wei. The point at this stage is to introduce poetry as a mnemonic aid and a space for the student to gain some reading confidence while just learning characters. On that note, I would argue that poetry is indeed critical for learning poetic syntax, which appears in Chinese prose too. Victor H Mair begins his yearlong CC courses with exactly that poem, and I follow his lead in most things here. The exception is Shadick, which on review I decided was no good without a very good teacher.

I certainly mean to add a little "start here if you already know an East-Asian language" icon to the Fuller/Rouzer section. I even think that very strong language learners with good command of an East-Asian language can skip directly to Analects or Gu-Wen Guan-Zhi and read them in parallel with a textbook. I haven't suggested that on the infographic because such people already know who they are. That is how I myself started: on my first visit to China years back, a flirtatious fashion student told me I should read Gu-Wen Guan-Zhi, and so I did. I struggled and misinterpreted a considerable amount, so then I read Rouzer *after*, went over it once more, and got much more out of it. Good memories. Now I'm a retail worker who knows classical languages and posts on /lit/.

>>22722824
Isn't 狗 a bit vernacular? As is 紅 for that matter, for 'red' in general the classical word would be 赤.

>>22723044
Both 紅 and 赤 are classical: they simply refer to different shades of red. Usually 紅 is resplendent while 赤 is ruddy.
狗 is used nearly interchangeably with 犬 as far back as Mengzi, though the species of hounds in generally is generally reserved for 犬.
I think your Japanese might be influencing your reading of these texts. Japanese character usage is sometimes closer to Literary Sinitic than Mandarin, but it isn't an exact overlap either.

>>22723137
I was under the impression that 赤 is a basic color while 紅 isn't. Like how 'scarlet' and 'crimson' are considered subsets of 'red' in English.

>>22723150
The problem is the same as as the problem in Greek or Norse or plenty of classical languages: our ideas of "basic colors," while based on real phenomena, are contingent. There is no basic usage of 赤 or 紅: that difference between deep vermillion and electric red mattered deeply to the Chinese.

Now that the dust has settled, which is better? Latin or Greek?

>>22723182
They are classics because the dust has not settled and never will.

Separate threads for Latin-Greek and "other" classical/old languages. Yay or nay?

>>22723780
The rule of general/board splitting is that you never get the distribution you'd expect (50/50 for one split e.g.) but 1/10th.

Excess generals have killed most boards on 4chan. /lit/ has somehow survived this. Go to /int/, the first 5 pages are regional/country generals in which the same four anime addicted trannies talk to eachother like it's a chatroom. /tg/ is so dead it's not funny, and it used to be like /lit/ for tabletop games.

>>22723795
that would definitely explain why I stopped liking /tg/. To be honest with how slow the general is typically splitting doesn't really make sense. Sure I'm not really into Chinese literature but I can skim through that and talk about Greek or Latin instead.

>>22723780
Nay, they're classical languages and it's not like the threads are unusable all of the sudden. If it becomes literally every post then we can reassess

>>22723780
Let me just say that I saw better Greek and Latin in my Chinese philology department than in some Classics departments.
https://thechinaproject.com/2022/01/13/china-looks-to-the-western-classics/

NOVUM
>>22724395
>>22724395
>>22724395