/lit/ - Literature

lol right

What is entry level book to understand Spengler?

>>22717772
Spengler's not worth reading, and you can understand his perspective from a single well-written 4chan post. I haven't read him nor have I read about him in years but his idea can be reduced to this:
>Great civilizations are like living things: they have a birth, childhood, adulthood, old-age, and death. Here are some examples: [...]. Western civilization is presently entering into old-age, where the downward trend becomes obvious and stability is threatened before being destroyed completely, so say your prayers.

>>22717780
He’s right

>>22717701
He was ambiguous, autistic, and intelligent but I agree he got a lot wrong. Some parts were very interesting though and I respect his effort

>>22717784
If he is, it's by accident. His notion of history is only slightly less retarded than the notion that there is some inexorable march towards Progress and utopia.

>>22717701
Caesarism is upon us. The messianism of US presidential elections and the rise of populists is the trumpets of that.

>>22717787
>His notion of history is only slightly less retarded than the notion that there is some inexorable march towards Progress and utopia.
You only say that because your inner world is dead.

>>22717701
sussy pumpkin

>>22717701
It’s not about a geographical region called “the West”. It’s specifically about a certain kind of Western Christian culture that Spengler theorised was born during the Carolingian renaissance that had a specific unique psychological and spiritual constitution. Now that people have lost their Christianity or have transformed their Christianity into something other than it used to be, now that classical Western art is out of fashion, now that the old type of Western intellectual is virtually extinct and his thoughts no longer resonate with our culture, now that our moral values have completely changed, it is hard not to say that the West is collapsing.

In the past there used to be a shared understanding, a shared kind of culture whose presuppositions were markedly different from our own.

>>22717701
This. Feminism and diversity are our strength. This is why I believe that the american government should execute all right-wingers.

>>22717701
It's funny how much pic related is a cope, seeing as all the states, towns and communities where such an idyllic scenery could realistically happen are also in a demographic collapse. How longer are westoids going to keep pretending everythings fine and it's still 1950?

Thirdies and Secondies have always hated or been ambivalent about the West, but now they don't even respect us anymore.

>>22718389
Damn..... I wish I lived in a respectable shithole like Russia.......

>>22717953
Yeah but today there's actual understanding thanks to better access to information, literacy and wealth

hopefully among the ruins of the carolingian and merchant empires the true Roman heir, the Spanish civilization will rebirth, if not it will be a dark era for white folk

>inb4 le american talks about le spic

>>22718489
Yes there has been progress, line HAS gone up. Stay faithful.

>>22718517
You don't need faith its science

>>22717953
it's pathetic to deify military men, especially the ones fighting for jewish fairy tales

>>22718496
Anon... I.. it's over

>>22718496
>the nation of half breeds will rebirth

>>22718496
uno taco por favor

>>22717701
We only have to be good enough to get to space and stay there. Infinite rerolls for Faustian Man.

>>22718576
Peak manned spaceflight was half a century ago. Any increases in technology since then have been offset by a loss of will, or more specifically an exponential increase in the number of people that don't want whitey to go to space and will cut any project to death with a thousand (coordinated) cuts

>>22718525
yeah but where is the hope if this doesn't happen, Russia? lmao
>>22718536
>>22718568
As planned, the midwits sprout

>>22718611
Russia might be shit but Tacoland is two leagues below still.

>>22718576
Can't wait to live in the space pod.

>>22718496
Yo quiero Taco Bell motherfucker

>>22718519

>>22718619
you can't understand civs

>>22718718
Ok burritoman.

>>22718496
me gusta mang me amigo you be speakan the truth mang get this esse a coke fo dis mang give dis mang some takis we Castillians not one drop o African blood mang i aint native I Spanish mang

>>22718986
oh no, now I will proceed to seethe at the sight of this proverbial humour, you're old

Would reading Spengler makes me live in impotent fatalistic despair?

>>22718700
Dumb mystic

>>22717701
You really think on an individual and character level people are getting stronger?

>>22719141
Stronger in what sense? Physically they are stronger, mentally who knows how to quantify that.

Spengler never said the West was declining. It was literally a clickbait title

>>22719146
Spiritually.

>>22717939
If we were progressing then their inner world shouldn’t be dead. They’d be fulfilled or at least partially fulfilled and.”getting better. Unless that is their a weakling. But seriously you can’t honestly think we’re living in good times do you? I live in Britain and so many people are suffering. I encounter it all the time.

>>22717701
>Spengler was wrong. The West is getting stronger and better.

Autocratcels stay losing

>>22718489
Literacy and wealth are going down in western countries. Other regions are catching up to the enormous technological gap the west's ancestors left behind. Western IQ is decreasing and will continue to do so.
>waaah IQ is pseudo science people are actually getting smarter because I say so
So go create your own abstract intelligence test and show people are capable of answering increasingly difficult questions.

>>22717701
None of the posters in this thread have actually read Spengler including yourself so it’s pointless talking about it.

>>22719367
What is supposed to be so appealing about this? The OP comic is making fun of people like you, you can still go out on a summer day and buy fruits but instead you stay inside and whine like a baby

>>22719714
>What is supposed to be so appealing about this?
No niggers

>>22719714
True, if you have money you can live even more pleasantly than those people in 1955.

>>22719714
Fewer fruits. And have you actually walked outside and seen an apple pie cooling outside while a smiling man rakes leaves and a young couple cuddles on their swinging bench? If not then it's pretty laughable how your epic proof that the west is doing great depends on a scene you've never actually experienced.

>>22719744
None of those things exist in real life

BASED

FUCK KIKES FICK JEWS

>>22717701
The West itself is declining but "the west" will live on stronger than ever. If you know what I mean.

>>22719554
>Other regions are catching up to the enormous technological gap the west's ancestors left behind
Not really and that's just going to get harder moving out

>>22717780
i can summarise the main point of a philosopher in broad strokes, therefore he is not worth reading.

I don't understand how they pick and chose what is "west". Like isn't any concept that originates from the western world western? LGBT rights is for example a hugely western thing yet traditionalists will claim its against the western ethos. Seems arbitrary to me

>>22720152
Guénon wrote that Western civilization originated as a liberal propaganda term invented in the 17th or 18th century. Before that you only had Christendom.

>>22717701
Well the west has fewer and fewer cuckwhites and more crazed undomesticated spics and nigs so OP is right for once

>>22718496
>spanish
>white
Spaniards are genetically close to iranians and turks than to swedes lol

>>22720152
>I don't understand how they pick and chose what is "west"
Neolithic Hunter Gatherers plus Anatolian Farmers plus Steppe Herders, duh.

>LGBT rights is for example a hugely western thing
LGBT was invented by Jews, not Whites, so no it's not a Western thing.

Not that this matters because OP is talking about Spengler and Spengler has a very precise definition of "the West". You could have just looked that up, but you didn't want to for some reason.

>>22719367
>domesticated urban installment for niggercattle to have a "normal one" is gone
This means the world is getting stronger and better. You are domesticated

>>22719554
Literacy and wealth in ancient rome and greece were low yet life was great for virtually everyone except slaves
Life becomes worse when wealth and literacy increase and then it crashes and burns

>>22719204
>But seriously you can’t honestly think we’re living in good times do you? I live in Britain
You exist on easy mode.

>>22720402
>Neolithic Hunter Gatherers plus Anatolian Farmers plus Steppe Herders, duh.
Several people in europe have little to no WHG, some have little to no steppe, significant CHG/Iran ancestry and northerners have asian ancestry. Nice try but no
And why would that be "west"? Thats arbitrary, not to mention you get these ancestries in other places too, even WHG. Churkas have among the highest steppe ancestry

>>22720424
>inb4 source
One of the biggest studies in recent decades
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.05.04.490594v1
Also see Lamnidis et al 2018

>>22720152
first ever mention of "western civilization" refers to american christian semi-secular culture. That's all. It got appropriated later and now used at anyone's whim
kinda like italians or castizos or jews or arabs are white americans depending on who you ask
no grounding in reality just an arbitrary concept. west? morocco is more western than most of europe. west europe? most europe isnt western. west eurasia? includes MENA. "western culture"? includes yidsrael and excludes bosnia and other euro countries
It does not make sense and is not meant to make sense. It is meant for domesticated seething normalfags larping as dissidents to use as a kind of collective identity since they lack one.

>>22720475
>>22720431
>>22720424
shitskin

>>22720496
The 'west' is being dominated by shitskins and no 'westerner' does shit about it, correct

>>22720424
>>22720431
>Several people in europe have little to no WHG
Incorrect, as your own source attests.

>some have little to no steppe
Incorrect, as your own source attests.

>significant CHG/Iran ancestry
Incorrect, as your own source attests.

>northerners have asian ancestry
Ironically this IS so small as to be meaningless.

You're doing the "it's not 100% something therefore it doesn't actually exist" canard. Just because it's made of parts doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, nor does it mean that the given thing is just the sum of its parts. Alloys are physical example of this.

>>22720508
Is it, though? You guys are constantly talking about patriarchy, Nazis running the US government, not teaching African history in Ireland is literally genocide, etc. So, which is it?

>>22720475
The earliest mentions of "Western Civilization" are the theories of the Greeks and Romans that they were closer to Celts and Germanics than Afro-Asiatic peoples.

>>22720424
>Churkas have among the highest steppe ancestry
Ignoring that this isn't true, this would just prove his point: "The West" is the culture of a specific race made up of three parts. The race is not the sum of the parts, it's something unique that only comes about because it is the result of those three parts, and each part can't produce the effects of the whole on its own.

>>22720095
>>22720095
When the point is obviously outmoded and retarded to readers today I think that's a safe statement. Like Freud's Interpretation of Dreams and Durkheim's everything.

>>22720152
>I don't understand how they pick and chose what is "west".
Spengler doesn't, he has a very precise definition of "The West": it's the mass of people who have Faustian Man in their heads. Pic related.

>>22720523
All correct though. South europe esp sardinia has little to no whg, significant chg/iran (since it is much higher than their hg), little to no steppe again in southernmost, asian ancestry goes up to 10%+ way higher than hg ancestry in almost all euros and at 5% higher than all south euros
reality can be hard to come to terms with, sorry

Also see haak et al 2015 and clemente et al 2021

>therefore it doesn't actually exist
It's undefined and to grounded on any actual physical reality therefore it does not exist. its entirely arbitrary

>>22720525
I wish nazis ran the us government

>>22720527
wanna cite me a source where they said "western civilization" lol
and also incorrect see lazaridis et al 2017 ancient greeks are closer to various menas than to north euros and romans were literally half anatolian see lazaridis et al 2022 and another study i cant remember rn the first about rome

>>22720539
>"The West" is the culture
None of the western countries had a similar culture until recent globohomo
>of a specific race
Lol
>made up of three parts
Lol
>The race is not the sum of the parts, it's something unique that only comes about because it is the result of those three parts, and each part can't produce the effects of the whole on its own.
What is the "west" and why is it called "west" and why is it dominated by a middle eastern religion?

>>22720508
>The 'west' is being dominated by shitskins
nice fantasy

>>22720545
Wordcel shit my nigga. Spengler should have touched grass

>>22720557
>>22720557
So exactly what he said, it's not that this thing doesn't exist, it's that you don't like that it does so you're trying to deconstruct it. Even if Europeans were pure Northwest Steppe Gatherers or whatever meme term you want to apply to a statistically insignificant number of corpses you'd still just say that Northwest Steppe Gatherers shouldn't be allowed to exist because ACTUALLY they're made up of peepee poopoo.

>>22720561
well, you worship niggers and arabs,you pay them to exist, you pardon them for crimes against you, and they outbreed you
fits the definition of domination, the west basically serves shitskins. the governments force the native populations to do it and they go along with it. 99,9% of western people go along with it
reality can be cold sometimes

>>22720565
>it's not that this thing doesn't exist
well, does a thing called "west" exist? prove it, since so far it's just arbitrary sewing together things one likes and calling them "the west"
please educate me the pleb

>>22720550
>okay well sardinians...
So Sardinians have slightly different ratios than other groups of Europeans, therefore...? Therefore what? White men didn't go to the moon?

>asian ancestry goes up to 10%+ way higher than hg ancestry
10% is insignificant, especially because you're playing terminological games here. "Asian" doesn't mean "Chinese".

>It's undefined and to grounded on any actual physical reality
So it's not that it doesn't exist, it's just that it doesn't meet some kind of abstract definition that applies to literally nothing ergo it should be destroyed. This in in spite of the fact that you've already had an example of something that exists as a unique thing in aggregate despite being composed of parts (alloys). I'll give you another one: cars. Cars are composed of many parts, in fact in some regions they're 10%+ more tire than engine! But yet, they still drive, and can only do so when arranged in a specific format! It's almost like going to the moon, inventing music, and creating the technologies that you are using to pretend to be an academic via can only come about when a very specific genetic arrangement that has a real quantifiable existence comes about!

>I wish nazis ran the us government
Clearly you don't given that you're just repeating Antiwhite canards about how Europe doesn't actually exist.

>and also incorrect see lazaridis et al 2017 ancient greeks are closer to various menas than to north euros
This isn't the case according to your own sources, not that it really matters because what he said was their theories of shared origins, not their actual genetic makeup (which is still a unified whole deriving from three original sources even if it has "5%+ whatever the fuck").

>>22720574
>well, does a thing called "west" exist?
Yeah, three original populations that merged into one.

>n-no a thing can only exist if it doesn't have parts!
By your logic you don't exist because you're made of parts.

>>22720550
>wanna cite me a source where they said "western civilization" lol
I was referring to Greco-Roman stereotypes of the Syrians, Levantines, and Phoenicians as bizarre effeminate sexual degenerates, and their belief in a shared descent from common ancestors amongst themselves, the Celts, and the Germanics, but not having common descent amongst Levantines, Egyptians, etc but sure, Michelson et al 2019, Schmidt 2012, and Warburton 1999 all cover this topic extensively.

>>22717701
China is the future quit coping. The pedo west is just a failed creditor state that will languish like Rome while the rest of the world prospers and flourishes with help from Papa Xi and the CCP. Westoids who bicker about "left" and "right" are the most pathetic of the bunch. Stay obese, indebted, and drug addicted you losers.

>>22720574
If White people don't exist, then why is it so imperative to you that they don't conceptualize themselves as White people?

>>22720581
>slightly different ratios
interesting how you try to call 90% anatolian and basically 0% hg with 1-3% steppe compared to 45% steppe 15% hg 30% anatolian 10% asian as "slightly different"
very motivated reasoning
why hide from reality? its only you who loses
>"Asian" doesn't mean "Chinese"
Correct, it means east eurasian. which is similar to han, jap, northern or whatever else minus onge. asians all look and are alike for a reason
10% steppe and hg is also insignificant btw thoughthenfore

well, prove something accurately described as "west" exists and its not arbitrary made up. go on, whats so hard?

>Europe doesn't actually exist.
Europe exists and will exist long after 70% of its native populations will be extinct by 2090 or so, even if it ends up 100% depopulated (hope not) it's still Europe
Not sure what this has to do a "west" tho

>This isn't the case according to your own sources, not that it really matters because what he said was their theories of shared origins, not their actual genetic makeup (which is still a unified whole deriving from three original sources even if it has "5%+ whatever the fuck").
All my sources prove me correct tho, laz 2017 even has maps with fst distances for midwits like yourself. denial does not change reality sadly for you
theres no unified whole either. asian ancestry in the north is higher than hg in the south, iran/chg in the south often higher than steppe, and so on
you have no clue what you are talking about and you arent smart. I'm sorry but you cannot be what you dreamt of being.

>>22720584
>three original populations that merged into one.
So entirely arbitrary made up by you* and also incorrect for like half of europe? K lol, so basically just west europe. I agree with that, geographically fits too
*anatolians are from anatolia and originally more to the east and steppe nomads from the pontic-caspian steppe and originally from ehgs from siberia and chgs from west asia
none of these are remotely western. so as i said, completely arbitrary
thanks for agreeing with me anon!

>>22720609
>interesting how you try to call 90% anatolian and basically 0% hg with 1-3% steppe compared to 45% steppe 15% hg 30% anatolian 10% asian as "slightly different"
We're talking about White people today, anon. Not some dude living in Anatolia 4,000 years go.

>Correct, it means east eurasian. which is similar to han, jap, northern or whatever else minus onge
So it's not that I'm right, it's just that I'm right and you don't like getting caught in a lie.

>well, prove something accurately described as "west" exists
I and others already have.

>All my sources prove me correct tho
Sorry, but haak et al 2015 debunked this. Also see clemente et al 2021 goes over this in detail. You probably should have done some research on this topic before attacking others in your gay Antiwhite crusade.

It's pretty clear that you have no clue what you are talking about and you aren't smart. It's also pretty clear given that you stopped trying to talk about modern European populations and instead started qubbling about the DNA of Ancient Anatolians that you've accepted defeat. So, I accept your concession. Feel free to go back to whatever discord you came from so you can argue about whether Natufians were 0.0001% J haplogroup or 0.001% M haplogroup (be careful though, a new study will come out soon and completely your carefully crafted theories!).

>>22720597
>their belief in a shared descent from common ancestors amongst themselves, the Cekts, ans the Germanics,
interesting, source? do you mean the classical age mythological lore about heracles went and spermed their women and they were created by their gods?
curious how you also failed to provide proof for what you claimed. greeks and romans did not speak of any "west" but you used them as proof
hmm wat means??

>>22720618
>So entirely arbitrary made up by you* and also incorrect for like half of europe?
Incorrect, see https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.05.04.490594v1.. It just came out recently, so I don't expect you to be aware of this. Also, Lamnidis et al 2018 covered this.

>anatolians are from anatolia and originally more to the east and steppe nomads from the pontic-caspian steppe and originally from ehgs from siberia and chgs from west asia
So three populations that combined to make modern Europeans, got it.

>none of these are remotely western.
Who cares? We could call them Easterners, or Northerners, or Southerners, or Whateverthefuck. It doesn't change the fact that they exist. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

>/his/ race autists broke out of their containment board
I got worried, I almost thought people were talking about books for a second

>>22720606
thats not important to anyone besides jews and lib whites and i wouldnt mind it. It would be a breath of fresh air to a cucked and doomed group of ethnicities, you know fighting back for once and getting some shit going instead of being a domesticated punching bag

>>22720609
It's hilarious how he BTFOed you so hard on the genetics that you just switched to whining about terminology lmfao

>>22720629
yes, all of these are ancestries of modern europeans.
>don't like getting caught in a lie.
what lie and what argument? asian is generic for east eurasian. theres no han ancestry in europe, schizo
>already have.
well, where? where is the physical reality that justifies a name such as "west"?

>Sorry, but haak et al 2015 debunked this. Also see clemente et al 2021 goes over this in detail.
kek so you have no idea what you're talking about and hope i have not read the papers but merely citing them. you can see the lack of HG and massively different ancestry ratios in haak who does not uses chg or asian sources for additional ancestry. clemente does not analyze europe in his paper, he just has admixture graphs for most of europe as a bonus. agrees with all the recent papers such as allentoft et al 2022 or lamnidis or lazaridis et al 2022
funnily enough through these we found that jews larping as european are levantine mutts. the more you know!

>>22720633
>interesting, source?
I'm digging the book out, but I'm referring to Greco-Roman stereotypes of the various races of the world. They saw Celts and Germanics as being people with shared ancestry to them, and Syrians, Levantines, Phoenicians, Mesopotamians, and Egyptians (who for brevity I refer to as "Afro-Asiatics") as a foreign people with whom they shared no descent. This is not just found in their literal genealogies. Similarly, in terms of their ethnic stereotypes they saw the Celts and Germanics as lesser, but related, forms of themselves (with the usual "good fighters, they're good at a specific kind of craft, they can be put to good use with superior Greek/Roman masters", etc). Meanwhile, they stereotyped Afro-Asiatics as, on the whole, being completely and utterly worthless. They can't fight, they can't craft, they're girly, they're effeminate, they're gay, they spend all day lounging, etc.

Mythologically, Celtic, Roman, Germanic, and Greek peoples are the result of divine descent. Afro-Asiatics are not, they're slave peoples who get conquered (see: Memnon being of Greco-Anatolian-Olympian descent, born from the lineage that conquered Ethiopia and enslaved its populace)

>greeks and romans did not speak of any "west"
They used the terms "occidentem" and "δῠ́σῐς", both of which are used to refer to the general European portion of the Greco-Roman world and things related to it. Around the 300s the Greeks started using the term "δυτικός", which is a neologism and has a usage more in line with modern "The West". However, around the 400s it became deeply intertwined with Christianity and was used to refer to Catholics.

Don't act like a retard and do this "white people don't exist because a globe means there's no true west :^)" bit, you're only making a fool of yourself.

>>22720664
>yes, all of these are ancestries of modern europeans
So then you concede, there is such a thing as a European.

>theres no han ancestry in europe
So then your original argument that there is no such thing as the White race because Whites are contaminated with Han DNA was wrong, got it.

>well, where? where is the physical reality that justifies a name such as "west"?
And there it is again: you're getting butthurt about the name applied to the thing, as if unnaming it will make it go away.

>>22717701
delusional
i traveled to marseille a month ago and the place is fucking disgusting
the last bit of faith i still had about the future instantly vanished
isolated towns are ok for now, but they won't last long until all cockroaches poison them too
>>22717780
>Great civilizations are like living things: they have a birth, childhood, adulthood, old-age, and death. Here are some examples: [...]. Western civilization is presently entering into old-age, where the downward trend becomes obvious and stability is threatened before being destroyed completely, so say your prayers.
this has to be right

>>22720639
I accept your concession and your additional concession that not such thing as "west" exists and you have to call what you have in mind by other names in order for it to not be arbitrary
>22720645
Samefag
>>22720671
Yes it'd be interesting to read that, if you can find them I'd like to read the quotes, unironically.
>δῠ́σῐς
meant to describe what? "West eurasia" is an actual term, for example
>δυτικός
means western in orientation, as in western wind.
also again, to describe what?

>white people don't exist because a globe means there's no true west :^)
Nobody has mentioned white people except you lol

>>22720664
>where is the physical reality that justifies a name such as "west"?
Why does a thing not exist just because the name doesn't fit your autistic classifications? The fact that you're so adamant, in spite of your own sources proving you wrong, that there is no such thing as a European people is a demonstration that it exists. If it didn't, you wouldn't be so animated by needing to deconstruct it.

>>22720696
>okay well you're right but i don't like the names!
I accept your concession. You probably should have read those papers before throwing a temper tantrum, I agree.

>>22720678
>there is such a thing as a European.
Geographically and genetically, of course. You thought otherwise? Weird
>there is no such thing as the White race because Whites are contaminated with Han DNA was wrong, got it.
Where's that argument? Several europeans do indeed have asian dna in them btw.
>as if unnaming it will make it go away.
It won't, it just means it's not "west" and the "west" does not exist. you could call it "yellow" if you'd like, and yellow would not be a real thing that describes what you claim (it describes other things accurately) just like you can call a eunuch man a woman and he's not a woman

>>22720696
>Nobody has mentioned white people except you lol
My first post in the thread was >>22720527. You started this entire argument that you've been losing, and roped me into it, with >>22720424 where you directly attacked >>22720402's assertion that there is such a thing as a "White Race" or a "Western Race" or an "Autistic Race" because the term doesn't actually matter. Then you attacked me when you misunderstood my post on the grounds that you do not believe that there is a "White Race".

>>22720696
>Nobody has mentioned white people except you lol
You cited a fucking genetics paper that you haven't read in response to a dude talking about cultural stereotypes.

>>22720697
>Why does a thing not exist just because the name doesn't fit
Tranny logic, men are not women even if you call them women
>there is no such thing as a European people
There are ethnic groups unique to Europe and are called Europeans no matter their genetic differences, but none except few of them are a "west". A bit more are "culturally west" but again, still not like half
>>22720700
See above. There is not such thing as "west" anywhere. There is the subcontinent of Europe (most of it more to the East of Morocco), or West Eurasia, or Western Europe though

>>22720704
>and genetically
Concession accepted.

>>22720717
>men can be women if they call themselves women
>but white people dont exist
what a bizarre ideology you have

>>22720717
>men are not women even if you call them women
This only has merit if you believe that there is such a thing as "men" and "women", and as you immediately argue in the next line you believe that these categories don't exist because they're made of components and the terms are ultimately meaningless. So, yes, you do believe in "tranny logic", I just don't get why you felt the need to tell us.

>>22720706
>post doesnt mention a "white race" once
? lol
>>22720712
Several actually, all highlighting the lack of homogeneity in Europe since there are various ancestries at different ratios, yet all unique to Europe in their mix hence Europeans being distinct but not necessarily all close to each other.
What about it? This is simple biological reality
You could all of them "the west" and it still makes the "west" an arbitrary concept

2016fags need to fuck off

>>22720718
but nobody argued against it though. you just arbitrarily name that "west", thus proving my point
>>22720721
>the west exists if you call something objectively not western "west", therefore men can be women if you call them women
tranny logic
>>22720733
See above, nice try trannie lmao

>>22720738
If Spengler were a shitposter born today he would mourn over board-tans

>>22720738
it's twitter trannies

off to bed, reminder trannies YWNBARW

>>22720757
pretty sure it's /his/ autists

>>22719367
I've been to stockholm, the only things that changed are the clothes and the cars. People still hang out in public with their friends/dates/kids. Dock workers still load and unload cargo. People still ride in boats. It's pretty nice.

>>22720768
Good for them.

>>22717701
No it is fucking not lmao. Even just your picture is retarded.

>Couple on a bench
Record low levels of young people in relationships.

>Guy with puppy raking leaves
Record low levels of youth home ownership. Record low levels of people who can afford pets. Record low savings, record low real wages.

>A pie
Women don't know how to fucking cook anymore LMAO.

So what else is wrong? Well here's one, they're also all white, and all outside instead of cowering indoors wearing masks.

lol

>>22721663
Billions must die

>>22717701
No it isn't lmao.
>>22717953
> it is hard not to say that the West is collapsing.
We aren't even close to the end; there are at least 300 years left, minimum.
>>22718496
No whites.
However, I can see where you come from.
>>22718576
Space is already an expression of the depleting faustian need from infinity. They ran out of planet, so now they're trying to reach others to start it all over again. (They will fail).

>>All those people writing a billion posts about race.
Spenglerian high cultures arent necessarily tied to any one race. However, they originate from a race. A high culture is a way of perceiving the totality of existence that can be transmitted.

>>22720768
I live in Stockholm, and you are so right it is virtually identical to the webm apart from the skyrocketing crime rate (daily shootings, car jackings/burnings, humiliation robberies and apartment bombings)

>>22721783
Do the perpetrators look like the people in the webm?

>>22721783
>skyrocketing crime rate
and that's a good thing

>>22717701
Sometimes I think that western culture already had its Ceasarist period in the 18th century, (Napoleon, absolutism etc.) A new west is currently being born and it is beautiful.

>>22721796
Curiously enough they rarely do.

>>22720743
Well, the west is simply Indo-European civilization.

>>22721783
In 1955, there were grenade attacks all the time!
t. redditor with brainrot

>>22721892
>A new west is currently being born and it is beautiful.
Idk...

>>22720402
>Neolithic Hunter Gatherers plus Anatolian Farmers plus Steppe Herders, duh.
Time for the classic play
Slavs have less admixture to that ancestry, is Russia "Western"?

>>22720539
>The race is not the sum of the parts, it's something unique that only comes about because it is the result of those three parts, and each part can't produce the effects of the whole on its own.
That... completely deconstructs the very concept of races, as it makes every single individual into a race of his own.

>>22721663
What am I looking at, besides white women being the biggest coalburners on the planet?

>>22722000
You're looking at exactly that, friend.

>>22721663
I wouldn't have performed worse, but my whore detector performs to the milimeter

>>22717701
what's the joke here?
stonetoss comics have gone to shit around the period he started shilling his NFTs, fuck that stupid faggot

>>22722031
stonetoss was always shit retard

>>22721999
>is Russia "Western"?
On Spenglerian terms, no.
They're their own thing that spans the Eurasian steppe.
>>22722031
chud le sad even tho laif iz gud.
It's that simple
>Inb4, it's not funny.
You are correct, but the bar for what counts as comedy is on the earth's inner mantle at this point.

>>22722055
>chud le sad even tho laif iz gud.
it looks like stonetoss is even more of a retard than i thought - he's contradicting himself since his other comics focus on how shit today's climate is and how better it was in the past
i guess what matters the most to him is having a joke, regardless of whether or not it clashes with his views
also chud is a left-wing meme used to make fun of right-wing retards on whose side he supposedly is
the faggot really has gone downhill over the years

>>22722054
his older comics were masterpieces compared to the stuff he makes nowadays, it's hard to believe this shitty comic was made by the same guy who did the "burgers?" and "it's a bubble" comic

>>22722061
Shut up chud

>>22722061
Chud has been co-opted by Chuds.

>>22722031
The joke is that the chud despairs about the West falling when he could look at the good aspects of the West that are still alive.
It's not terribly funny, but the chudface is funny enough for a laugh.

The broader point I think is that a chud sitting in his gaming chair doomscrolling Twitter/4chan isn't doing anything to help 'preserve' the West.
Any man who works a decent job, is somewhat involved in his community and has children is doing infinitely more than a chuddie posting Roman statues vaporwave style.

A movement (as far as you can call that what chud is a part of) has no legs to stand on if it cannot create anything, attract people who are highly capable of creating culture.
The chud needs to be less nostalgic, and see what he can do in the admittedly declining West.

This thread is up while serious threads are killed after 2 posts lmao. I am not sure if the west is dying or not but 4chan is deader than dirt.

>>22722069
didn't ask

>>22722069
>Any man who works a decent job, is somewhat involved in his community and has children is doing infinitely more than a chuddie posting Roman statues vaporwave style.
I disagree with this. When you're living the comfortable middle class life you're supporting the system inadvertently. Not that I hold any ill will towards people who just want to grill.

>>22722074
Don't need permission.
Maybe you can go to reddit and try to rack your brain on what Stonetoss meant by this?

>>22722079
Don't care

>>22722081
Then why did you ask?

>>22720597
>Greco-Roman stereotypes of the Syrians, Levantines, and Phoenicians as bizarre effeminate sexual degenerates
wow some things never change huh

>>22722069
>he could look at the good aspects of the West that are still alive
such as?
i bet whatever you say, it's in rapid decline

>>22722083
Didn't

>>22722092
Seeing you seethe makes me happy

>>22722094
what webcam are you using here

>>22722097
meant for>>22722092

>>22722092
It is in decline.
But the crime rate is still low compared to anywhere else but some Asian countries.
You can still create wealth if you apply yourself.
Any generation above zoomer is not fully atomized and addicted to tech. You can still change the tide
Despite the TFR falling, overwhelmingly people still WANT to have children.
The divorce rate IS dropping. The people having children will not be the progressives
No one is stopping you from having starting a family, raising them as you feel fit and passing down your traditions.
Of course all of this is under attack, but some chuddies were despairing in 2010. If they instead applied themselves they would be in a pretty good position in 2023, would they not?

>>22722103
All of that doesn't really matter in times of demographic decline. You could impregnate 10 women and it wouldn't make a dent.

>>22722105
I wasn't talking about you personally reversing the demographic decline, obviously.
The point is that the chud expects the entire nation to reverse that without he himself doing it in his own life.
I don't think a lot of chuds are parents or are involved in keeping the community active.

>>22722109
My point is that your family life is irrelevant. If you really cared it would be more effective to donate your income to right wing causes or something.

>As of 2022, the average cost of raising a child to age 17 is $310605.

>>22718986
As a Mexican man, this post made me laugh

>>22717701
>"the west" has devolved to baking pumpkin pies and raking leaves
Are we doing the glorifying apple pie and white picket fences thing again? Given what happened after the 1950s, all the better

>>22717772
Decline of the West Vol. 1

>>22717780
It’s only the more obvious implication from his larger philosophies about discursive knowledge, time, space, etc. Everyone talks about his imperium, but nobody gives a shit about the chapters about Gothic law, world-as-history, effective action in the world, etc. What you just said is not EVEN a summary.

>>22717953
Why do you guys talk about the ideas if you don’t even read the books first…?

>>22718496
https://youtu.be/sGYHfb5QsBY?si=_2yTvO55Vi0x2ZH5

Per Spengler, the Spanish failed to play a decisive role in the development of Western civilization in the World Wars and their primary role was influencing and playing companion to Bavarian and Austrian political thinking. He thought Spanish politics and Bavarian/Austrian politics were similar in a way.

>>22718576
The whole point is that the drive for space is a tragic impulse. You cope with space because you won’t actually be how you are or take heed, too cowardly to satisfy the drive to dominate all horizons of the world and too bold to be self-critical of the striving impulse and contain it.

>>22719109
It depends. For me, I found it partly hopelessly depressing and partly hope fuel. His world-as-history vs world-as-nature idea helped me find some direction in my life.

>>22720152
Spengler is quite clear that it’s asserted by a race, but his conception of race is quite different from ours. He would consider Poland Western not necessarily because they’re Catholic because of the German expansions in the Middle Ages, for example. The Ur-civilization of the West for Spengler is France, Germany, and England, the Blue Banana basically. But the various nations of medieval Catholicity and the nations formed by the descendants of those people (i.e. America) are also Western. So the West is basically Australia, New Zealand, the Americas, and Western Europe to the Vistula and Carpathians. I think he specifically mentions the Vistula and Carpathians as borders somewhere.

>>22720545
This post is wrong.

>>22721892
I think that Spengler’s model makes a lot more sense if you include not only
The West but the whole of post-Roman European Christendom. Many of the phenomena he expected in c.2000+ Western nations have happened, but in Russia. Many of the characteristics of Rome through the Punic period can be ascribed also to Russia. We have to admit that it’s possible he was right, but not about everything.

>>22721680
> Spenglerian high cultures arent necessarily tied to any one race.
Filtered

>>22722103
>No one is stopping you from having starting a family, raising them as you feel fit
>raising them as you feel fit
uhh about that

>>22722285
How can a race "fall"

>>22722113
Just because you donate your Burger King wages to American Renaissance doesn't mean you're moving the needle either.
You're missing the point of the comic. No one wants to be a part of a movement that whines and seethes at brown people while doing nothing impressive.

People at the top are not chuds and they will never be.
They're either happy go lucky people who move with the tide and end up high or they're bold people with a vision. The chud is closer to a pajeet currycel dreaming of arranged marriage and how India will become a superpower by 2035.

>As of 2022, the average cost of raising a child to age 17 is $310605
reddit mindset.
You can cheaply raise children if you work normal hours and live soberly.
That's how people did it in the past and how browns do it today. Sorry if that leaves less time for your mmorpg and 4chan arguments.
The only real issue is housing being expensive as fuck.

>>22722349
Don't let them have smartphones.
Supervised internet.
Homeschooling
Seeking out schools that do not push that shit.
The disaster bill proposed in California of having to 'affirm' your tranny kid got shot down by Newsom.
If you live in any other state or European country it's less bad.
And besides, what are the type of kids to troon out?
It's either
>Liberal parents
>Insane mother
>Fatherless
>Rich people who ignore their children
Scratch that from the stats and few kids troon out.

>>22722367
>dude just homeschool your kids while working a full time job
these parents are going to have a healthy diet of 6 red bulls a day

>>22722356
>You're missing the point of the comic. No one wants to be a part of a movement that whines and seethes at brown people while doing nothing impressive.
No I'm not, and it's untrue anyway. Lenin's Bolsheviks for example were archetypical seethers.

>>22720411
>This means the world is getting stronger and better. You are domesticated

Says the corporate slave

>>22722374
Sorry chuddie, you're aware that there are home schooling communities as well?
Any more excuses to not get laid?
>>22722378
Yes and what happened to their planned revolution?
Got taken over by the pragmatist called Stalin

>>22722385
Stalin was a sociopathic thug. Doesn't really support your point about respectable family men.

>>22722367
This type of kid will be the one to rebel hard once they are separated from strict mommy and daddy

>>22722385
>you're aware that there are home schooling communities as well?
i wasn't actually, that's worth looking into

>>22722395
Nowhere did I say respectable family men hold power.
They clearly don't. But Stalin was not a Chud.
>>22722400
Jewish lie.

>>22722404
>But Stalin was not a Chud.
What an insightful analysis, retard.

>>22722409
You're having trouble following the conversation?

>>22722414
Got anything else to offer besides meme words and arguments in bad faith? Stalin was certainly more spiteful & ruthless than I'd ever allow myself to become, so if he doesn't fit your narrow defintion of Chud the discussion is pointless.

>>22719109
He seemed to me rather objective (apathetic) and it is, in a way, expected that you would be too whether you read the book or not. While people seem to accuse him of some grand worry I found him as detached as he is precise, as cold as he is affirming and as prophesizing as he is sure. Particular primates on this site usually raise dust where there is no need to do so. It is an excellent guide on how to look at culture and its relativization, it contains a (then) new (and very interesting and applicable) look at the philosophy of history and an overview of the main components of what historically makes culture a culture, all of it dabbled in brilliantly self-assured metaphysics, theory of everything that Spengler considers to be important considering the points he wants to make (varying through his interests of math, art, science, history and of course philosophy) and a challenging worldview. You will not become a turbofascist or fall in despair.

>>22722419
Eh he's mostly hated due to far-right western anti commie propaganda, in reality he only killed about 11mil tops

>>22722367
Kys groyper

>>22722419
You're seething so bad it's pathetic.
Whinging about 'meme words' when you replied with a one sentence ending with retard.
Stalin was out robbing trains and banks. You're on an image board making excuses for why the west is falling. Stalin worked his ass off for a revolution.
Your advise? Donate your burger flipping wages to AmRen or America First.
Don't dare compare a Chud to someone like Staling, fucking moron.

>>22722431
Skin untouched by the sun
Bad relationship with parents
Shriveled up penis
Malding retard

>>22717701
So how did Leftists become defenders of the West when just a couple years ago, they were trying to destroy everything? Was it as simple as Biden winning the election?

Seriously it’s fucking weird. People who just 3 years ago were talking about how America mistreated black people are acting like neo-cons now

>>22722353
Read again. I said that a civilization is asserted by a race. I did not say that a race and a civilization are one and the same. The civilization is a sort of super-organism brought into being by the organism, a people, which is explicitly racial. Moreover, Spengler’s conception of race is different from our modern scientific conception of race. For him, a race is not strictly genetic. It’s linked to geography, history, and most of all, religion. For a him, a conception of race which is strictly genetic is nothing more than a misconception because of an illusion possible at a certain place and time (culture happening to fall along genetic lines). He says when a race can no longer be found in its home land, the race has ceased to exist.

>>22722420
beautiful effortpost, king

>>22722433
I guess only you know what you mean by the word. I supposed that OP was referring to someone who is seething & full of spite. I don't think the cartoon makes a point about work ethic.

>>22722439
Sounds like you want to fuck your dad

>>22718496
>>22718576
>>22718608
>>22721680
>>22722274
Fall of Soviet Union was a disaster

>>22722453
Soviet union was a disaster

>>22722450
No the word is pretty well known. Extremely online bitter politics obsessed person.
Someone like Hitler is closer to a Chud. But even he had heroic moments in war.

>>22722452
You're Jewish.

>>22722420
But the point is that his detachment misguided him. He failed to assess just how bad things were. If he was 100% right, we should be living in an age of great politicians, legislators, and legal theorists right now. Instead, we have the big orange Cheeto, a senile Zionist, a Congress full of mouth breathing retards that literally try to brawl at Senate hearings like white trash, and a Department of State that runs around the world with a pride flag trying to transition the world’s kids. He predicted that there would be a decline and that it would be steep, but he never accurately predicted just how steep the decline would be and just how hopeless the situation would appear. The real despair to be found in Spengler is not his philosophy taken as “correct”. It’s his philosophy taken as “flawed”. Eventually, you start drawing connections between his take on Calvin and the influence of Calvinism in woke stuff and you think “well, fuck”.

>>22722464
>Extremely online bitter politics obsessed person.
Sounds like Lenin or Stalin (and Hitler too) sans the internet part.

>>22722464
Mindbroken polbot

>>22722466
>Instead, we have the big orange Cheeto, a senile Zionist, a Congress full of mouth breathing retards that literally try to brawl at Senate hearings like white trash, and a Department of State that runs around the world with a pride flag trying to transition the world’s kids.
Boomers can't live forever

>>22722420
The most important takeaway, in my opinion, is not his particular or even general predictions about the course of Western civilization. It’s his conception of history as metaphysics, history as a guidepost, and the call to understand oneself as a man in history (as opposed to a man in nature). That’s probably not the ultimate worldview, but it could be penultimate one and I personally find it far more nourishing a perspective than the cold, rationalistic, mechanical worldview that’s become the mainstream over the centuries, which every western child is indoctrinated into, and which is unraveling into abject skepticism and schizophrenia before I very eyes. Spengler sees you sinking in a muck of scientism, skepticism, and occult schizophrenia and throws you a rope. Whether that rope leads to something which is literally right or literally wrong, is somewhat besides the point imo.

>>22722456
The competition started the space age you dumb fag. Shitler shouldn't have invaded them. Commie and Nazi collab would have been crazy.

>>22722479
I like how they keep talking about demographic crisis like we're not just going to kick them out to the curb

>>22722479
i wonder what zoomer politics is going to look like

>>22722469
The online part is important though.
In those days I guess it would be more people who are theorycels or way into books.
>>22722476
Says the person who got so upset at a non offensive post he replied with
>kys

>>22722479
But the point is that they’ll try and let’s not pretend the youth are much more impressive either. We’ve bred a civilization of professionals, internet entertainers, technicians, victims. Nowhere do we see a general, a statesman, a leader, and worse, nowhere do we a see a system that encourages or breeds such a person. Look at the stranglehold media entertainment has in candidates and elections. Nero is the status quo now.

>>22722493
lmao did that make you mad?

>>22722493
First reply was incomplete.
About Lenin/Hitler/Stalin
They are sort of chuddie but when the difference is that one robs trains/does heroic actions in war and the other does nothing of the sorts, a comparison is always weak

>>22722489
If you were going to do it, you would’ve done it already. The boomers are going to have bred multiple generations of people ill-equipped to handle the practical realities of life and profound crisis. Then, they’re going to mismanage things into profound crisis.

>>22722486
It’s telling that the Cold War was essentially a conflict of two powers trying to one up each other with technical feats that in the end don’t matter. We’ve been suspended in a fear of nuclear annihilation for the better half of a century. Space is the dream of a pacifist.

>>22722503
Anyway, let's get back to your initial point about family men.

>>22722505
Tick tock dad

>>22722510
>We’ve been suspended in a fear of nuclear annihilation
We should be actively aim for it

>>22722265
No one here reads

>>22722511
What about it?

>>22722494
>We’ve bred a civilization of professionals, internet entertainers, technicians, victims. Nowhere do we see a general, a statesman, a leader, and worse, nowhere do we a see a system that encourages or breeds such a person.
>>22722505
>The boomers are going to have bred multiple generations of people ill-equipped to handle the practical realities of life and profound crisis. Then, they’re going to mismanage things into profound crisis.
I agree, incompetence and mismanagement have upsides for people who want to live more freely however

>>22722523
It was retarded and you backtracked and started talking about robbing trains.

>>22722400
Not necessarily. All you gotta do is associate those things with positive reinforcement not negative ones. You can create a mindset in your child that will stay with them for life.

>>22722528
Going to walk you through a normal argument slowly.
What about what I said was retarded?
>sidetracked
I was on topic with my first post: >>22722069

You however decided to make it all about revolutions and movements, here:>>22722378
A pretty big reply and you picked out one thing you felt confident about rebutting.

Want to make an actual point on my family point? Try to make it longer than one sentence.

>>22722586
>You however decided to make it all about revolutions and movements
Well that's what the discussion is all about. You can make your own thread for whatever you're talking about if you want.

>>22722613
>Anyway, let's get back to your initial point about family men.
Your words. Do you want to speak of that or are you going to continue being gay?

>>22722634
My point is clear: social change comes from all kinds of malcontents, autistics philosophers etc. . Now not every chud is a thinker, that's why I brought up money donation as an option.
You on the other hand took this thread as an opportunity to dunk on your contrived strawman of a right wing poster.

>>22722658
>dunk on your contrived strawman of a right wing poster
That strawman is what the comic is portraying.
It's what my initial reply was to, to someone who didn't get the comic..

>>22722666
>That strawman is what the comic is portraying.
You didn't get it.

>>22719367
literally all of this still exists. go outside.

>>22722671
Says the person who wanted to 'get back to your initial point about family men.' and then refused to have the conversation.
I made a point about a stereotypical Chud and you felt personally attacked.
Clown.

>>22722526
Disagree. True freedom necessitates having the capability to navigate through things as they come. Aristocrats were free in part because they were classically educated and not in spite of it. Freedom has prerequisites.

>>22722684
The cartoon is about a guy who seethes despite things not being all that bad out there, which is objectively true in a sense. It doesn't necessarily imply that the chudjak is politically & intellectually impotent as you seem to think.

>>22722697
Why did you say you wanted to get back to the initial point and are now dodging hard?
>It doesn't necessarily imply
No shit, he could have an active social media with a lot of followers for all I care. He could have written books. But the typical Chud does not do anything. You could fantasize about chudtoss being very active, but that would be a minority of chuds. I simply go by what the majority is and have no reason to think Stonetoss didn't.

>>22722714
>But the typical Chud does not do anything.
[citation needed]

>>22722726
I don’t consider whining on twitter or 4chan something.

>>22717701
This is why I want to move to Las Vegas or something so when I walk around I only meet other pieces of shit like myself. I can’t even go on a literary walk in my town, I’m always running into happy families or scaring random normies out shopping. A while ago I wanted to check out a local book shop to see if they had anything on Wagner and when I walked in I realized it was a chick lit bookshop and the young teenage girl working behind the counter literally gasped out of fear when she saw me probably because I looked so angry and unhinged. One time a car full of these church girls stopped in the middle of the street and started waving at me yelling at me to have a nice day because I probably looked so sad. Another time this black girl parked on the sidewalk to invite me to her church, they had some social media thing, ‘called out’, where you’re supposed to call people out that look like they need spiritual guidance. I thought she was inviting me into her car to go church at that moment so I told her I had some place to be and she laughed at the assumption and told me to check out their social media page

>>22718496
Cumgenius, maricón, te has dejado el trip

>>22719554
The main reason why the Western IQ is falling is because our satraps keep importing more and more niggers btw

>>22718496
Reconquistamos la pinche imperio azteca güey

>>22722762
I have a job, a gf, and a car. What else do I need

>>22720152
Im a traditionalist afroboo and proud Gaddafi supporter. Fascism is just third worldism with art deco stylings. Le west isnt worth saving.

>>22722846
Your response is baffling desu.
How can I say you 'need' anything besides what you listed?
If you truly are a Chud then sure you need to either adjust your outlook so you're not seething impotently, or you need to go in headfirst and make yourself useful for the future you want to see build.
If you can hold down a respectable job, have friends, a woman and your own place I don't consider you a Chud. Even if you might think Hitler winning WW2 would have been ideal.

The comic even points to this. If chuddie simply lifted his head, he would see that the things he is despairing over (relationships, coziness, people maintaining their lawn(community) are still very much there for the taking. The Chud in question ha shown no political grievances. Only a blind eye to what would cheer old chuddie up.

>>22722903
Nice pilpul.

>>22722905
owned.

>>22717772
Prophets of Doom by Neema Parvini the fatman who eats too many paninis

>>22719744
I don't want to see a young couple cuddling on a bench like some porn addict

>>22722903
I don't have my own place and probably won't unless I move away from friends and family because the area I grew up in is plainly completely unaffordable, does that strike you as a good reason to seethe or am I supposed to do something about home prices?

I can take solace in my relationships and the notion that things can always be worse, and I do, but that won't help me buy a house without moving away from my support system, that won't help my girlfriend and I raise a child after we get married because we'll probably both have to be working, that won't help correct the disconnect between reality today and what our generation had been told, ad nauseum since childhood, was basically a forgone conclusion.

I dunno if I'm a chud but it's pretty easy to feel pretty disillusioned and angry at the state of things today. It's easy to repeat mantras like "be the change you want to see in the world," (which is only slightly less retarded than that braindead law of attraction shit women believe in) until you consider where exactly that disappointment and anger usually comes from, and how change is so far from the realm of possibility that resignation seems like the only option.

>>22719744
Damn...I wish I lived in a shit hole like Russia or China.........

>>22722271
>development of Western civilization in the World Wars
Hmmmm...Western civilization predates the world wars, sweetie

>>22722768
Te confundes, panchito
>>22722836
Ni idea de quién son esos
>>22720400
What have Swedes done to anything lol?

>>22722985
>Be a Roman in 450AD
>Complain about the decline of the empire
>Some smoothbrain wipes the drool from his mouth and stammers out, "GO LIVE WITH THE HUNS THEN"
Retarded faggot

>>22723012
Damn..........

>>22721783
What's a humiliation robbery?

>>22723314
It would be extremely painful.

Literally looks like this outside right now. Get outside /lit/ dont waste your days in front of a computer screen

>>22723321
Go take a video. I'm serious. It would be very easy to prove your claim if it did, in fact, look like that outside.

>>22717953
Good post.