/lit/ - Literature

meds

there is literally no such thing. Go joy of satan and larp with the /x/tards

>>22713526
>>22713551
Its an academic interest. You don't have to clutch your pearls.

>>22713561
>academic interest
more like im-psychotic-and-in-desperate-need-of-medication interest
you dont realize how weird you come off, do you?

>>22713582
Its no different than ready horror novels bro.

>>22713599
dont bro me, you nutjob

>>22713636
You must be fun at parties. Oh who am I kidding? You never go to parties.

>>22713657
do they have a monthly dancing session at your looney bin? must be nice, enjoy!

>>22713710
Thanks for the bumps.

>>22713733
no problem

>>22713551
>magic isn't real, that's why we had to burn all those witches

>>22713513
Yesterday I was in a furry gooning server and came across a man claiming that he was so porn addicted that he "spoke to porn, and she spake back". What he considered the "porn goddess" gave him dark visions. He masturbates for 22 hours daily. The other gooners saw him as a prophet.

Like Tolkien's dwarves, the man dug too deep and encountered something diabolical. He masturbated so much, and so intensely, and in such an increasingly depraved fashion, that he became possessed. No grimoires necessary.

I evacuated the server posthaste, with renewed resolve to quit pornography and escape the influence of this unclean spirit.

>>22715223

>>22715223

>>22713551
>there is literally no such thing
>>he doesn't know
How very unfortunate for you, anon.

>>22715744
>JK
Makes me think it stands for just kidding

>>22713513
Ist this the same King James who translated the bible?

>>22716682
I think so

>>22716755
>>22716682
One individual—Richard Bancroft, the archbishop of Canterbury—was notable for having the role of overseer of the project, something akin to a modern editor of a collection of short stories. The actual translating (writing) of the KJV was done by a committee of 47 scholars and clergymen over the course of many years.

>>22713513
Cause I pity ya for all the bad answers, OP, here's mine for ya hopefully more helpful as a wizened elder.

There's a lot of background info needed to make sense of these kind of goetic grimoire works.

I would suggest the following secondary literature:
Grimoires -- Owen Davies (good history of various magic books and their reception in western esoterica)
Encyclopedia Goetica: Geosophia I and II -- JSK (edgyish, neopagan/occultesque, but fun and intuitive take on goetia, other volumes of series are nice editions of two related goetic grimoires too)
Techniques of Graeco-Egyptian and Solomonic Magic -- Skinner (traces the evolution of goetia from earlier sources such as the pgm and explicates much technical info wrt ritualism)
Stellas Daemonum -- Crowhurst (never read but supposedly goes over astrological elements of grimoires which I find important)


It is also worthwhile to read some earlier texts on theurgy as well for understanding classical magic such as de mysteriis... by Iamblichus. The line between theurgia and goetia is finer than many think.

If you just want lists of demons for shits n giggles maybe get diccionaire infernale


Oh! And for primary sources.

I like:
Picatrix
Little Albert
Red Dragon
Books of Solomon
Book of Cyprian
Book of Honorious
Sacred Book of Abramelin
Sixth and Seventh Books of Moses

Check out Black Letter Press btw

>>22713513
>>22717658
Actually, scratch that, you're just seeking general occultism?

I guess just start with popular works cause why not??? So...

Well, perhaps if more into mystical esoterica you might enjoy MPH's Secret Teaching of All Ages.

On the other hand, for the more magical side of things you might enjoy Crowley's Liber ABA which collects his key theoretical and practical writing.

That said, both these men have their limitations of their own times and perspectives and egos.

There's also chaos magic. I think it's a tad new age but Carroll is interesting writer methinks.

I really like Austin Osman Spare moreso than Crowley if seeking something more akin to chaos magic. His Book of Pleasure is sublime. And Zos Speaks! has his later writings. That's the main stuff.

Which leads to Kenneth Grant conundrum. Student of both Spare and Crowley. Bit insane tho. Crazy shit but so much fun. The Magickal Revival at least is worth a looksie.

KG's most famous associate IMO is Chumbley. Azoetia and DBoE are some wild syncretic neo-religion in high grimoiric fashion. Takes best elements of Spare and Crowley and Grant. Pure works of art his big books they are.

If you wanna go back further in time there's Eliphas Levi of Haute Magie fame and Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa of De Occulta Philosophia fame. The former is more philosophical. The latter is more encyclopedic.

>>22717658
>>22717744
Much obliged.

>>22717658
>>22717744
Also, just on the academic side, I would highly recommend Wouter Hanegraaf's work. Very sober scholar albeit a bit too skeptically inclined due to his awkward position as head of one of first western esoterica programs.

And on subject of demonology, I cannot help but think a little of the Malleus Maleficarum which was the bible of witch hunting.

And speaking of witch hunting, I rather liked the book Thinking with Demons for just sort of context of such movements

>>22717764
Glad to help. Ya. I'm less of a "magician"/practitioner these days and more of a mystic/philosopher but yup mid thirties been lookin into this shit for a while. Hah. Feel like there's more crap on market now. But some is also better crap. Wish I had better guides when I was lil. But never really sought them out. But you prolly aren't even seeking to fuck around, no? Wish ya well. Hope ya find what ya seek. I think the way it has influenced culture is super cool and overlooked. Plus good research if ever writing fantasy.

>>22716755
>>22716962
Interesting. Thank you.

>>22717767
Books I have.
Celtic Mythology and Religion by Alexander Macbain
Celtic Religion: In Pre-Christian Times by Edward Anwyl
Valhalla The Myths Of Norseland by Julie Clinton Jones
The Book of Halloween: A Historical Treatment by Ruth Edna Kellen
Epicurus by A.E. Taylor
Early Greek Philosophy by Alfred William Benn B.A.
Vampires and Vampirism: A Cultural Study by Dudley Wright.
The Mythology of Ancient Britain and Ireland by Charles Squire.
Nature Worship An Account of Phallic Faiths and Practices by Unknown.
The Religion of Babylon and Assyria by Theophilus G Pinches.
An Occult Reference by Tarl Warwick
The Mystic Will: American Edition by Charles Leland
The Veil of Isis: Mysteries of the Druids by W. Winwood Reade.
The Old Egyptian Faith by Edouard Naville (translated by Colin Campbell M.A)
The Book of Witches by Oliver Madox Hueffer
Letters on Witchcraft and Demonology by Walter Scott

>>22717658
>secondary literature
Thanks for these.

>>22717905
Oldnik back here. Curious collection. I prefer the more theoretical and practical side of things. I've got some key religious works. But less of the mythology of "pagan" Europe. Kinda a bit of a Greece and Rome and India and China guy.
>>22718476
No prob, Bob. Good to be good. And good of you all to be good to me. Can field questions if anyone's curious... funemployed atm

>inb4 meds
I'm already on em :^)

>>22718898
I just get whatever sounds interesting based off its summary.

>>22718898
>I'm already on em :^)
up your dosage

>>22719449
It's eclectic but it is good to follow your intuition
>>22719490
I'm already at max dosage

>>22713513
Its important to conceptualize that occult has been more of less fraudelent for at least a few hundred years. A lot of people who have been elevated in the status of an occultists were at best larpers, at worst well poisoners; and unlike today, when you can practically tell that it's a grift or some CIA-create-more-noise-to-signal-ratio goon, it's way harder to see the fraud in older works. I guess old Vatican should get some credit for that, they really did make CIA's current job seem almost sloppy and second hand, and that was centuries ago - back when people were supposed to be "simpler".

First of all:
>>22717658
>>22717744

People like these are either well poisoners or are useful idiots who've bought into the fraud. The names, the jargon he's talking outs him as such. You should absolutely not start there. It's up to you of course, after all I can't walk this journey for you, but if you're truly serious and want to use it as an actual learning experience rather than some fedora-tipping-atheist "dabbing" on them 'foolish' non-materialists, then symbolism and deep history is where you should start. There are hidden meanings everywhere, even in most mundane things, it's a sort of secret language that you need to understand.

>What do I read then?
If you want a true introduction into occult, there isn't one - you're supposed to wander lost in the woods for years if not decades before it finally clicks. The closest thing that will somewhat bring you up to speed in a practical fashion is "Spirit Whirled: Dead Phoenecians" by Dylan Saccoccio. Do take note that it's somewhat advanced and a lot of it will fly over your head, but it does shed some light on actual meat and potatos; not this kiddie "drink your own pee" or draw circles of blood and fecal matter to summon some demon entity to sell your soul to. I haven't read his other books since most of it was something knew from before, but he managed to cram it nicely.

It ain't what you think it will be.

>>22719898
This comes off as someone acting smarter than they really are.

>>22719965
>Can't tell if trolling or serious.
Good.

Clank

>>22717658
The Pavement Ape of Thoth

>>22720062
https://larabell.org/Hanuman/

>>22713513
There are heavenly realms and transcendent secrets of the universe, why do people want to learn about subhuman entities associated with feces?

>>22720039
Styx is so lame. He rambles about muh woketards and the importance of individualism while his country is being flooded with 3rd worlders and systemically being taken apart by Jewish Zionists running the White House. His occult stuff is extremely shallow and profane as well. I used to be a huge fan around 2017. I am grateful that he puts out books for a good price, despite at least half of them being out of publication for a reason (being garbage).

>>22713582
>you dont realize how weird you come off, do you?
Guarantee he’s getting sucked off by nut job girls on the reg. if you’re under 6ft this shit is the key.

>>22719898
That anon returned once more. You're not necessarily wrong about magic being unlearnt. But you are purposefully ignorant if you ignore all modern occultism. I give the resources requested. With information to make informed decisions. If one reads. Ofc this board mostly only pretends to read.
>>22720062
Good fella. A bit too into Chumbley tho. I don't want to do the uncle fuckjug spells personally. Prefer intuitive shamanic...
>>22720100
Again agreed. But still it is important to know the cultural historical currents. We are embedded. Thrown in world in media res

>>22720039
His editorial work is vital in keeping numerous old works alive. I have many, though the cover and back material is.. weird. It smudges easily. Though he has said he makes em as cheap as possible so they're easily accessible.

>>22720239
His writing sucks.

>>22720276
How many of his works, and I mean specifically his not what he has edited, have you read? I've read several and they're good.

>>22717905
Sorry for this stupid question. I wonder what people who read these books take from them. What kinds of insights did you get? Did they help you in understanding practicioners better, or our past? Or do you read these for entertainment?

>>22720295
While I own them I bought them in bulk. I got them relatively recently, I've only read the Celtic ones and I enjoyed them greatly. Paganism has been on the rise for a long while now after all. Not just norse either.

>>22713513
>pic rel
No excellent, but still informative in several ways.

Otherwise, while not a book, Fr. Ripperger's lectures are incredibly insightful. Here is part one of three on Generational Spirits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpJgVAs02Dc

Nevertheless, Fr. Ripperger has a lot of great stuff on the Sensus Fidelium YouTube channel.

Fr. Ripperger does have several religious works including insight into exorcism as well as deliverance prayers.

===

If anyone feels as though they are struggling with demonic interactions of any kind, the following prayer will help you:

Prayer of Command

In His name and by the power of His Cross and Blood, I ask Jesus to bind any evil spirits, forces and powers of the earth, air, fire, or water, of the netherworld, and of the satanic forces of nature.

By the power of the Holy Spirit and by His authority, I ask Jesus Christ to break any curses, hexes, or spells and send them back to where they came from, if it be His Holy Will.

I beseech Thee Lord Jesus to protect us by pouring Thy Precious Blood on us [my family, etc.], which Thou hast shed for us and I ask Thee to command that any departing spirits leave quietly, without disturbance, and go straight to Thy Cross to dispose of as Thou sees fit.
I ask Thee to bind any demonic interaction, interplay or communications.

I place [name of person, place, or thing] under the protection of the Blood of Jesus Christ which He shed for us. Amen.

>>22720293
Occult Philosophy for the Modern Age
Meme Magic (or something)
Emotional Alchemy
Maybe another one

I have a bunch of his edits as well, maybe 20. His intros aren't that good and there are frequently errors in the text itself. His work is amateurish and his knowledge is more encyclopedic than esoteric/spiritual. That said, he's not bad for an e-celeb and i like him overall as a person. I don't understand why he insists upon maintaining an "enlightenment" view of things, it just limits his horizons to rationalism and materialism, which is painfully obvious when you delve into his occult material. Maybe that's why you shouldn't make pacts with demons, maybe they'll impede your development?

It's a shame. I think he could be doing so much more but he's busy concerning himself with "demonology" or why Alchemy is actually coded Chemistry being hidden from the Church, instead of it really being high spirituality comparable to any of the best Traditions you'll find in the East.

I don't really want to trash him too much since I do appreciate him/his work and plenty of people in the scene are much much worse, but I just think he could be so much better. Just my opinion.

Read the meme magic trilogy!

Have you hard of the/a logos???

>>22720295
>Did they help you in understanding practicioners better, or our past?
Yes for both. You can see that these ancient people had genuine esoteric (spiritual) knowledge which is lost or very hidden today. I'm not a fan of most "pagan" revivals though. It's usually just fantasy and escapism and carries over negative aspects of Christianity and the modern world. Better to nominally be a Christian (i.e., follower of Christ) while having a profound appreciation and understanding of "pagan" Traditions.

>>22720329
A fine future addition to my personal library.

>>22720345
Fair enough. I like the ones I've got that are specifically his. I rewatch his occult video series every so often. I've stopped giving a shit about politics so I don't watch those anymore.

>>22720419
What sort of stuff are you interested in? Any other books apart from his you like?

>>22715223
holy shit

>>22720521
--- > >>22717905
I've only read the two Celtic ones so far.

>>22715223
I believe you.

>>22713513
use these books with large doses of hallucinogenic drugs, or else the spells don't work

https://www.bitchute.com/video/wKjqRL3CQ3wU/

>>22721021
I stopped going to bitchute after their owners revealed their nature on twatter.

>>22720353
I like tarot cards. I've wanted a deck for a few months now but there's so many to choose from.

>>22717905
>An Occult Reference by Tarl Warwick
Here are three books I want to get after reading through it.

>>22721445

>>22721448
.

>>22713513
https://
discord
gg/3JecWmnf

>>22717905
>An Occult Reference by Tarl Warwick
lol retard

>>22722115
>t. Transgender witch who watches vaush

>>22722115
thanks for the bump

>when you get so little pussy you start to convince yourself magic is real
Just hop on tren. I guarantee it will be a million times more magical
>b-but that's illegal and i'd have to chat up the scary looking guy at the gym
Quite the sorcerer you are.
Convenient how your worldview perfectly aligns with your lack of social skills and measurable real world achievements.

>anon has a conversation with himself to own OP
Many such cases.

>>22713561
>Its an academic interest.
He says as he has three threads open about how to summon succccccubus gf on /x/

>>22722853
Act like I'm wrong. You aint fooling anyone.

>>22719898
>very vague and haughty
>acts as though hes privy to some secret
>claims there are no real sources for initiation
you come across as the grifter.

>give me more yous
no.

>>22722883
>Still butthurt that his disinfo thread got shat up by obscure truth
Let go, anon.

>>22723025
>don't read influential philosophers, read bad linguistics!
This whole website is grifters, useful idiots, and bad actors. Not me tho. I'm just a NEET from days of yore mourning the fall from the golden age

>>22723071
Yes.

>>22715223
Anima possession. Same cause as for contemporary troon epidemic

>>22723071
How new are you?

>>22723025
so why does
>>22717658
seem more helpful and what would be wrong with his approach

>>22723085
Historical linguistics is super important for studying magic. But better off learning Greek and Latin and Hebrew and studying other stuff as well as opposed to picking up some initiates of the flame tier mix of fact and fiction (and possibly worse...)

>>22723093
Helpful anon here. Gonna keep it real with you, chief, he's not wrong that a lot of the grimoire tradition is just crazy and dumb bullshit and mostly irrelevant to learning about magic or practicing it. A lot of it just le edgy larping as folx still do today. I do however think some of it is cool -- for one, there is a important historical link between theurgy and goetia and some of the earliest pagan astrotheologies. Secondary literature is for separating wheat from chaff

But magic is a wide subject anyway. That anon seems to have a sorcerous approach as opposed to a more learned magician type desire for knowledge. I suppose I am latter

>>22723142
I figure as much.
>theurgy and goetia and some of the earliest pagan astrotheologies
Really? Please explain.
>Secondary literature is for separating wheat from chaff
Which of these offer real links to the supernatural? I am a moral man and know I would not misuse the basics and hope I would not misuse the edges.

>>22723152
>The anon that, the other anon explained the intentions of here
He's hinting that there are encoded messages behind the schizospeak designed to lead normies astray. You have to look at that stuff as a hidden pointer/message/hint. If you ain't got the tools to weather that storm, don't start there, return later. Do keep in mind that most schizoshit ain't encoded, and that some of it is encoded with red herrings. This is also why I stress symbolic language and linguistincs, and he was indeed right about Hebrew, Latin and Greek.

Nobody said it was gonna be easy......

>Give me the roadmap, the keys and the tools for the journey, just trust me bro, I'm a good moral man
Sorry there bud, that last part is on you and that's the whole point.

Remember that time when your were a kid and your dad told you that the story about the 3 little piggies was actually about something else entirely, and you were like "M'kay" without really understanding anything? Then years later it finally dawned on you like a sledge hammer. A similar concept is at work here. Once you're ready, you won't need a "dad" to give you hints from years earlier. You will understand.

>>22723152
The supernatural is a tricky term

What is natural?

Astrology is basis for many magical texts

As is kabbalah and pythagorean number mysticism

Those would be good basics

But is that supernatural?

The word grimoire is believed to be related to grammar which nicely encapsulates relation between language and magic methinks

Lots of demon and angel rituals in esoterica. Usually much fasting and prayer

Is that supernatural?

On the eastern side...

Patanjal's ashtanga yoga supposedly results in magic powers if mysticism is followed

I believe the buddhists have some similar texts too one of em is like vish something iunno

>>22723195
Anon playing an anon playing another anon here. This too.

>>22723195
>Remember that time when your were a kid and your dad told you that the story about the 3 little piggies was actually about something else entirely, and you were like "M'kay" without really understanding anything? Then years later it finally dawned on you like a sledge hammer. A similar concept is at work here. Once you're ready, you won't need a "dad" to give you hints from years earlier. You will understand.
I'm not convinced you actually know anything secret about magic. If you won't give advice there, that's understandable, but you'll understand if anyone finds it suspicious and unconvincing.

Now as for Latin, Greek, and Hebrew, what books would you recommend for learning them? In some books, for reading knowledge, in some materials, for full linguistic understanding.

>>22715163
They burned them to cover up the fact the 'witch hunters' raped em.

>>22723232
>how do I study??????
Get a grammar and a dictionary and a textbook


Jeez. Stop trying to tease info by being incompetent

>>22723255
Do you know enough or not about ancient languages to offer some solid introductory advice? This isn't the magic itself, and any worthy student would have to spend thousands of hours mastering it.

>>22723302
>The son said : "M'kay", as the message flew right over his head.
This reminds me of another story, about The Tortoise and the Hare! Come to think of it >>22719620 this one is actually even more profound. I suggest you unironically start there.

>>22723341
So you're a dumb pseud faggot who has nothing, and doesn't even know the 3 ancient languages he can only namedrop. All you can do is give the exact same advice pseud language novices do. Fuck off then.

>>22715223

Before journeying on the path of occultism, freeing yourself of Abrahamic false guilt is key.

les fréros should I read le grand albert?

>>22724002
oui

>>22713551
If there's no such thing why are you scared

>>22722866
I could refute you but don't want to since I'm too busy.

I have it on good authority from various circles of high-level masonic brethren that Donald Trump is a high-level Thelemic initiate. If I die i didn't kill myself
>they know

>>22715223
Pass the server.
I need to talk with the anointed one.

>>22724666
Well okay satan.
Also I guarantee there are randos on 4chan who know more of the symbology of the masons than actual masons.

>>22724729
No

>>22724783
Yep.

>>22724850
Dick

>>22715223
honestly i'm just sad that such degeneracy is now on a platform like discord instead of on efnet.

Malleus Maleficarum - The Witch Hammer by Heinrich Kramer
Daemonologie by King James

Hexenhammer Verlag puts out a few decent books

>>22724914
Grayson.

>>22721432
https://nicolasbrunophotography.com/THE-SOMNIA-TAROT
Seen these? Found this guy on a /wp/ thread.

>>22720329
>>22720416
Add this one too.

>>22726138
A fine addition to my collection
>>22725169
I shall take a look

>>22721432
There's basically three standard tarots:

Marseilles is one of earliest basic tarots with the symbols we would tend to recognize
Rider Waite is probably the most common. Golden Dawn influenced but not too much
Thoth is Crowley's tarot. Kinda like a labyrinth all of its own. Uses unusual attributions which may confuse but pretty art

>>22726561
Aye what I meant is there's a lot of cards with a lot of cool art so its hard to pick just one to start with.

>>22726561
https://www.amazon.com/Thoth-Tarot-Deck-Aleister-Crowley/dp/1572815108

>>22726587
You probably want something fairly basic and universal for symbolism before getting alternate variants.

>>22726587
https://www.amazon.com/Rider-Tarot-Arthur-Edward-Waite/dp/091386613X/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=tarot&qid=1700250386&sr=8-5

Here

>tarot cards
Kek

>>22720100
>individualism
Thinks only of himself, and encourages others to do the same.
Wonders why the culture around him is collapsing.

>>22727241
I collect them like I collected yugioh cards back in the day.

>>22727286
Why?

>>22727318
I like the art on the decks.

>>22727331
That's just conserumism

>>22727339
Okay.

>>22713513

What version of the Lesser Key of Solomon and Margaret Murray's Witch Cult in Western Europe should I get? Preferably a pretty looking hardcover

>>22727937
>Preferably a pretty looking hardcover
Well I was going to say Styx's is 10 dollars but its only paper so I got nothing. Sorry. (Lesser Key)

>>22727971
"styx" is a fascist, racist, white POS

>>22727937
The Three Magical Books of Solomon: The Greater and Lesser Keys & The Testament of Solomon https://a.co/d/1Aq58PE

>>22727991
>racist
I wish

>>22727991
Racism is based, funny, and cool

>>22728597
She cute.

>>22728585
Interesting

>>22713582
Touch grass

>>22731098
It is funny how idjit protestant jesus freaks and soi reddit nü atheists freak out about topic of magic being insane and/or unholy when at least in my experience the average person or even a lovely lady is usually always down to converse about subject of supernatural and esoterica and the like.

>>22731192
The supernatural is always fun to talk about.

>>22731192
gib witch pusy

>>22723232
>the 3 little piggies was actually about something else entirely
hol up. what?

>>22723211
>The word grimoire is believed to be related to grammar which nicely encapsulates relation between language and magic methinks
any books that go into detail on this?
Is this related to Cratylism?

>Cratylism holds that there is a natural relationship between words and what words designate.

>>22731418
I don't know or care what the pseud schizo thinks. He's clearly a mediocre monoglot.

>>22723099
>But better off learning Greek and Latin and Hebrew
this

>>22727991
>whines about racism then points out his race as a negative
lol

>>22731458
only Whites are bad mmkay.

>>22731462
/s

>>22728597
I think I gave myself a hijab/burka fetish. Oops.

>>22728597
I don't understand this gif. They are taunting a muslim child w an ice cream cone. Why is it interesting or amusing? Seems pointless

>>22731514
It's a thing that store or type of store does. The joke is they mess with you and you're supposed to play a long. This one is funny/cute because she wasn't having it. I suspect the guy running out at the end is going to give it to her and let her know it was just fun.

>>22731514
They're being based.

>>22731384
Smelly

>>22726138
Biblical satan and modern satan aren't even the same.

>>22731462
Goooood goy

>>22731518
Wtf is wrong with poomen?

>>22733415
thank you brother in christ

>>22720353
Okay

>>22731192
>t. Cultus Sabbati ""initiate" who looks like the stereotypical edgy left hand path neckbeard - shapeless, fat swollen, with long black hair shiny from oil gathered in a ponytail, and a stiletto beard to give thmselves that Faustian look - so out of it on tropane alkaloids that they think the trees he mistakes for the average Joes and lovely ladies are interested in hearing him babbling about thighbone trumpets, cumming into jars, drinking menstrual blood and other female excreta from skulls, and gathering roadkill and fucking it for spiritual reasons.

>>22715223
>furry gooning
A furry what?

>>22717658
Nice

>>22734006
who hurt you anon?

>>22734006
I like how this anon is both buttmad about cultus sabbati and surprisingly familiar with its bs. Which is it?

>>22717658
>Encyclopedia Goetica: Geosophia I and II -- JSK
>Techniques of Graeco-Egyptian and Solomonic Magic -- Skinner
>Picatrix
>Books of Solomon
>Sacred Book of Abramelin
All very nice and approved here as well!
Ass Agrippa's 3 books and the Abramelin!
For other traditions: orphic hymns + PGM for the greeks and Book of the Dead for Egyptian practice.

>>22723088
what is that

>>22735827
https://appliedjung.com/anima-possession/

You're going to read my books right anon? Even though one I didn't write but is credited to me anyway?

>>22724728
You can find these kinds of people on pretty much any larger gooning server. I was surprised to see it on the one I was on; it seemed like one of the more relatively innocuous ones that doesn't allow Lolita, cub, meth etc.

Ask around about the "porn goddess" and you'll find these people (sometimes if they're gay enough they'll call it the porn god, and often just Satan). I can't recommend it though, and don't feel right putting anyone in direct contact with these people. They're parasites that groom people into destroying their lives, committing sex crimes, and then committing ritualistic suicide.

They're energized by the transgression of boundaries. Also stimulants. It's just actual Slaanesh 40k type shit that took off during lockdwns especially

>>22736189
so is there a paranormal entity involved or no
could be something lower than a god or goddess you know they have a hierarchy

>>22736211
>they have a hierarchy
yeah they're also not real you moron

>>22736227
not in the tangible sense but they're being used to to point to something but it's also the best way to think about that something so they are real

>>22735971
im not reading the fourth book since its written by a FRAUD of POOR character besmirching Sir Agrippa's good name

>>22736242
>so they are real
that's definitely not what real means

>>22713513
Read this as "Dermatology and Occult", kek. Takes me back to the Dragonology book when I was a kid with the samples of dragon skin

>>22736211
Considering they usually organically identify it as Satan I'm not disinclined to agree

There are various levels of irony corresponding to organic degrees of initiation. The usual gaslighting/doubletalk

>>22736227
Ngmi

>>22736247
Based

>>22735932
that didn't say much other than you may sometimes have self doubt

>>22713513
Pic related because it literally proves that the supernatural is real since NDEs are irrefutable proof of life after death, because anyone can have them if they come close to and survive death. And they are so undeniably real to those who have them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U00ibBGZp7o

As this NDEr described their NDE:

>"I saw how life never ends. I remembered the process of reincarnation is endless, wonderful and truly eternal. I witnessed my own spiritual evolution and saw that I had existed long before this present incarnation (where I am now a male human). For me, watching the process of living life, after life, after life unfold, was mind-blowing! I undeniably observed that I had lived an innumerable amount of lives. My NDE clearly showed me that these bodies (we now inhabit) are not the first and only time we have existed! I saw that our soul and spirit is ancient! I also observed that there is no such thing as death."

And importantly, even dogmatic skeptics have this reaction, because the NDE convinces everyone:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mysteries-consciousness/202204/does-afterlife-obviously-exist

So anyone would be convinced if they had an NDE, we already know this, no one's skepticism is unique. And the book in pic related is known to convince even hardened skeptics that there is an afterlife.

>muh brain chemistry

Neuroscientists are convinced by NDEs too. What do skeptics think they understand that neuroscientists do not?

>muh DMT causes it

Scientifically refuted already, and NDErs who have done DMT too say that the DMT experience, while alien and really cool and fun, was still underwhelming to the point of being a joke when compared to the NDE.

>>22736264
Cute pic

>>22736402
based NDE poster anon who never gives up

doing God's work anon

>>22736402
What do you think of Edgar Cayce NDEanon?

This is a good starting point for anything occult.

>>22736848
ZOMG OMFG ITS THE DEATHLY HALLOWS

>>22736860
It's an alchemical joke

>>22736848
This is one of the books that's always there when you look at supernatural/occult stuff on Amazon

>>22736933
The Hermetists believe and teach that THE ALL, "in itself," is and must ever be UNKNOWABLE. They regard all the theories, guesses and speculations of the theologians and metaphysicians regarding the inner nature of THE ALL, as but the childish efforts of mortal minds to grasp the secret of the Infinite. Such efforts have always failed and will always fail, from the very nature of the task. One pursuing such inquiries travels around and around in the labyrinth of thought, until he is lost to all sane reasoning, action or conduct, and is utterly unfitted for the work of life. He is like the squirrel which frantically runs around and around the circling treadmill wheel of his cage, traveling ever and yet reaching nowhere—at the end a prisoner still, and standing just where he started.
-The Kybalion
by Three Initiates
Chapter 4: The All

Unironically

>>22736957
Garbage. Horrible waste of money.

>>22736957
Kino. Perfect waste of money.

>>22736189
Is there any relation between them and the weird group of O9A people that encourage BNWO fetishes

>>22737361
I'm not familiar with the term O9A, but there's a nearly 100% overlap with BNWO (although some are in the Bleached camp). As I'm sure you've noticed, it's overwhelmingly trannies and pedos the farther down you go. Things start to glow, too. Go to /trash/ and ask what happened to the porn addiction general threads (specifically /epag/, or "extreme porn addiction general). Obvious glowniggers dragging people into matrix servers presumably for blackmail. Blackmail is it's own fetish for these people too, as it happens

>>22737380
I think I know what you’re talking about, but I didn’t know they summoned a goddess. I was under the impression they were getting teenagers to cut and were giving people suicide fetishes for weird antinomian accelerationist rituals. They seem to be infiltrating a lot of places and pretending to be sleeper agents.

>>22736276
>>22736189
why is there always satan/ le naughty devil imagery with porn sites and actors on their social media etc

Y'all take your fetish rp to /b/

>>22737397
I don't know if summoned is the right word. It's more that at the bottom of the process of sinking into depravity, you come to the conscious realization that you're acquiescing to a living spiritual evil. They identify that evil, that death/hunger force, as the "porn god/goddess/Satan".

In other words, by "breaking their limits", they remove the psychological resistance to recognizing oneself as evil that normally allows a person to stay semi-willfully blind to the reality of these forces and the willful participation that we all have with them when we do something less-than-good.

That's why while these people are not materialists or atheists, they want the surface- level initiates to be atheists and will gaslight them into thinking these forces aren't real until they're "ready" for it

I think that this is also why atheism is promoted for the masses, barring that its also a convenient philosophy for creating consumer slaves. There's a reason why Epstein had a weird temple, but also funded the New Atheists

>>22737411
I think it's probably a mix of redditor style edginess on the one hand and revelation of the method on the other

>>22737426
Fetishism and deviant sexuality is a poor substitution for collaboration, competition, and genuine comraderie

Though I will likely never be a christian again I like listening to this asmr channel called daily bread where a cute girl rambles about jesus.

>>22737442
These people are truly sick. Wonder what will happen to them at death? An infinitely slow agonizing decay in the shadow of the moon? Idk. Maybe they remain as evil spirits without a will/consciousness of their own?

>>22737478
>Wonder what will happen to them at death?
Nothing. Nothing happens after we die lol.

>>22737485
You're not slick buddy

Verification not required.

>>22737502
meds

>>22737485
You wouldn't know.

>>22715223
>gooners
what is this? ive been seeing "goon" everywhere lately, is it just another way of saying coom?

>>22737478
Hell probably

>>22737529
It typically refers both to the fetishization of porn addiction, and to the physical practice of extended edging (ideally into a trance state).

It's been a thing for a while but exploded during the pandemic. You can check /trash/ archives and see the relatively sudden transition from "edging" to "gooning" as the term for their long-session group coomerism

The object of gooning, as opposed to edging, is to intentionally weaken self-control. This seems fine for people until they realize that they no longer have the resolve to stay away from taboos that they'd rather not cross

It's a predatory thing to spead to people who don't understand its consequences

>>22737504
Trannybrain

>>22737558
>the physical practice of extended edging (ideally into a trance state).
is this what evola was talking about in this footnote to metaphysic of sex?

>>22737561

>>22737573
What is the footnote in reference to?

>>22737442
>in other words, by "breaking their limits", they remove the psychological resistance to recognizing oneself as evil that normally allows a person to stay semi-willfully blind to the reality of these forces and the willful participation that we all have with them when we do something less-than-good.
You write about it in a disturbed way. But the reality is the "breaking of the limits" of the individuality is the same thing as the influx of grace, and the perception of "difference" which inheres in the individual in conjunction with the limiting adjuncts is the evil.
The intellect and will in harmony as pure action is the godly way

>>22737595
dantes vita nuova, the poetry of guido cavalcanti, and the form of erotic meditation they suggest, in which a sexual fantasy about a woman is a stepping stone for an encounter with the Absolute...

>>22737631
That's nice antinomian Crowleyan fanfiction buddy, but in real life God nuked Sodom for the consequences of that kind of thinking

>>22737688
Considering we have no evidence Sodom ever existed.. no.
Also Sodom and Gommorah were more about people raping angels.
And considering what biblical accurate angels look like..

>>22737696
> biblically accurate angels reddit meme where every angel was a throne, seraphim, or cherubim
Don't reply to me anymore

>>22737696
I'd appreciate it if you took the time to learn what you're talking about rather than regurgitate Reddit memes.
Please don't reply to me again until you do

>>22737739
Its not my fault you don't know your own jewish mythology.

>>22737696
>material evidence in esoteric lore
Lel

>>22737758
The angels that met humans were typically humanoid. The idea that they were all thrones, seraphim or cherubim with crazy eyes and a bunch of wings is ignorant reddit garbage that gets regurgitated by retards

>>22737776
You seem to be obsessed with that site since you keep mentioning it.
>>22737767
Troy was once assumed to be a myth, we found it.
Seems the Greeks are real.
I mean its not like the Bible has other lies in it..
>Exodus
Oh wait turns out jews were never kept as slaves like depicted.. oh. Awkward.

>>22737729
What?

>>22737688
Its christianity buddy, God is beyond dualism, and the ego, individuality is synonymous with the ego

The undifferentiated cannot exist in a distinctive mode, the manifest or contingent is placed between the impossible and necessary, or the unreal and the real, as it is neither all multiplicity is illusory in its dependence upon the principle, God is beyond Good and Evil, Satan is an angel of God - God is beyond Both, God is immutable, infinite, beyond the unmanifest and manidest, the truth, Knowledge itself.

A Possessive love reinforces both our sense of self and a feeling of ownership to the recipient of our affections. It also habituates our sense of division, between those beings that we like and those that we don’t like or feel indifference towards, now doesnt that explain conflicts as seen between the neurotic religous people, like christians and muslims?

Devotion rids us of ego, but devotion can also simply breed a more subtle attatchment to the ego, Hell is the response to the Ego which tries to fashion itself into God, the Mind is itself the the first an principial idol.

I think immorality is horrible, and uneccesary Adam is beyond lust, etc. And does not continue in sin etc. Anyway whatever

>>22738002
Selflessness is the entry into spirituality and when I read the Gospels, Christ affirms this, it is not about an exaltation of personhood, but rather a transcendance of the individual and ego, we are as dead but alive in christ.

I dont at all see any purpose in antinomian crowleyism as a mere concentration on these principles connects me with the God of love. Antinomian crowleyism is satanic plain and simple, and yes hating Evil is fine and good, but total transcendence of the World and Evil, and Good as it is in association with evil, a Correlative - is simply a manifestation of grasping at the transient or perishable

I affirm that there is a Christprinciple, which is absolutely necessary in all spiritual work from a human standpoint. No one serious about that would ever deny that. Compassion and Emptiness is simultaneous in selflessness.

>>22719898
I knew demons would be in this server well-poisoning when I saw the OP, lol. Get thee hence!

how do you conjure some entry level entities to do your bidding or whatever and how do you know definitively that it's not just imagination

>>22726561
>Golden Dawn influenced but not too much
Nigga you what

>>22738357
just convince others that you can and that's just as good as being "real," which was already mentioned in the thread

>>22738847
Like Jesus

>>22739439
You idiot

>>22739522
>>22739439
>>22738847
All idiots

are trance like states the point when one opens up to possession
read in a meditation book that the drowsy state one sometimes enters while meditating are deliberately cultivated to communicate to ghosts etc

>>22715223
spotted the retarded toilet demon, off to hell you go

>>22739577
Yes. That's why I think people need to be careful with meditation and mediumship. If you come out of meditation feeling drowsy or mentally foggy then be sure of what you're actually trying to achieve. I want to achieve states of hyper-awareness, not simply fall into the subconscious and speculate as to what I'm experiencing (is it ghosts, demons, your own thoughts? etc.). I don't know at what point you'd get possessed but I bet those lower sub-personal mediumistic states make it easier.

>>22738453
What?

>>22739599
I have heard voices that are not my own come out of me during hypnogogic states. Like the voice of an old lady coming out of a young man saying things I know nothing about. Like it just comes out of my mouth and I hear it but it's not me. It's very uncanny. I would sat terrifying but it happens so much I don't fear as much anymore. My only fear is if this unconscious activity extends beyond just speech and expands into bodily movement (which I fear I am already beginning to experience).

>>22738357
Anon you've never heard the Sorcerer's Apprentice have you?

>>22740382
Dan Dangler. Just-- Dan Dangler. Seek Dan Dangler. That's the uh you and just so if you you you do and Dan Dangler.

If you dabble in magic and the occult, you'll literally go to hell.

>>22740457
are you Christian or Muslim?

>>22739522
>>22739536
>Duuude I can totally turn water into wineee

>This thread is still up
/lit/ I didn't know you guys had such an interest in demons

>>22740410
So when you're falling asleep, you hear an old lady's voice coming out of your mouth? Are you sure it's not just in your head?

>>22740560
OP here, I'm surprised myself. I keep it open and hope for book recs.

>>22740685
nope. my family has heard it too and it creeps them tf out. when I bring it up they change conversation. I've also seen weird as shit I can't about either because for all the talk about "IT'S NOT REAL OK" it sure scares the shit out of people when they experience it for themselves.

>>22740697
also hearing the voice brings me out of the hypnogogic state because the absolute schock of the realization that that is happening is huge "WTF" moment but for a brief moment as I return to normal consciousness I clearly hear the voice but can't make out the words.

>>22740697
What kind of stuff do you see? Do/did you meditate?

>>22740709
Also, is it always the same voice?

>>22740811
no I have also heard the voice of an older gentlemen with a transatlantic accent

>>22713582
>medication
yes goyim! take these drugs they will help you!

>>22740807
shadow people. Imagine a black hole type thing but in a tall skinny human form and an intense "heavy" feeling in its presence. I did for some time meditate, but these experiences occurred before, during and after that period.

There's a part of our brain that is more sensitive to the dark and helps us glimpse past the veil between realms.
Its why a lot of kids have weird/creepy stories to tell, why they are more sensitive to paranormal stuff.
Its why we fear the dark. Not because of supposed predators, human or animal, but because of the supernatural. The veil, and what lies beyond.
40% of adults in the US say they fear walking around their house without the lights on. Why? You know there's know lion in your home. No intruder.
Its because in the dark, your brain starts to touch the veil.
Meditation and methods like it help us become ore attune with this part of our brain and its why the psychically gifted are a thing.

The Amygdala

>>22740807
>>22740811
also if this interests you (although I do believe it is dangerous) read about the Seeress of Provorst. I find similarities to my experiences in hers although hers were much more intense and also check out an old forgotten philosopher called Karl von Prel who wrote treatises on this topic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friederike_Hauffe?wprov=sfti1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl,_Freiherr_von_Prel?wprov=sfti1

There's more interesting stuff on this topic but it's not in English

>>22740837
>You know there's know lion in your home. No intruder.
There are scarier things than lions and theives.

>>22740837
no*
>>22740848
Exactly. Bad spirits of all kinds.

>>22740820
>>22740830
That's pretty weird man. So you think it's getting worse? Idk if you're interested in practicing, you could try different things and see if anything changes it. It's a good thing to experiment with. Imo it isn't necessarily bad either, maybe it's relatives / blood memory or something, it might not even be conscious.

And ya I think hypnogogic states and trance states do break down the ordinary barriers and open us to non-physical realms. Btw, did you ever experience anything while waking up (hypnopompic)?

Sorry i have so many questions, it's really fascinating.

>>22740843
Thanks. I'll check the links out later, I have to go now but will be back.

>>22740898
>Btw, did you ever experience anything while waking up (hypnopompic)?
yes I have. one time I woke up to a blue humanoid creature with green eyes sitting at bottom of my feet apparently draining a kind of mist from my body. It also had like a hazy blue aura around it. I immediately had a knee jerk reaction out of fear and kicked at it and it immediately dissapeared and I mean literally poof instantaneously gone like it was never there. That one did make me question my sanity but I saw it clear as day. And that is just one prominent experience among more. It is scary but after experiencing so much of it after a while it no longer scares you as bad as the first times. But irl i cannot really talk about because obviously I'll get labelled a schizo.

>>22740848
huh, was he talking about a literal lion or a metaphorical one retardanon?

>>22740916
it wasn't a metaphor fellow retardanon it was a hyperbole.

>>22740898
>It's a good thing to experiment with. Imo it isn't necessarily bad either,
I disagree. I think it's very dangerous and a strong background in epistemology and metaphysics is prerequisite to any serious cautious explorations into the occult. Otherwise, I would compare it to giving a toddler a loaded gun and telling it to experiment and see what happens.

>>22740921
kek, please look up both of those words ESL

>>22740915
bad friends

>>22740946
nope it was a hyperbole, an exagerration to emphasize the concept in point: fear.

>>22740952
>no friends
ftfy

>>22740956
so are you saying the things in his home are less scary than lions?

>>22737785
>Oh wait turns out jews
The jews of today are unrelated to the jews of back then.

>>22724666
checked

>>22740421
no what is it

>>22740457
That's true, unless they repent.

>>22740560
Occult is interesting topic. They're relatively old kooky beliefs, systems and rituals that have stood the test of time.

>>22741794
And its fun
>>22741137
That is the christian cope yes.

>>22720329
>>22726138
Thank you

>>22741723
I guess christian mystics are fugged then.
Also its funny how little christians know of their own stuff. Hell isn't even a thing in the Bible, best you have is Gehenna. Hell came later after they stole the Underworld from greek mythology and took Hades and Pan to smash together and get Satan

>>22740457
What count's as 'dabbling'? Does reading books like those suggested in thread damn one, or do you actually have to act on them?

>>22743986
>dabble in the arcane and dark arts, and SATAN will DAB on YOU!

If Satan is so bad why does God have a higher kill count in the Bible?

>>22713513
Oh boy, I'm a medieval nerd so much of stuff was already been mentioned; however...
Testament of Solomon
Miscelaneo de Solomon (Spanish/Arabic)
The so-called "Book of Oberon"
Hygromanteia
Greek Magical Papyri
Bhutadamaratantra
Book of the Sun of Gnosis

>>22744761
>Bhutadamaratantra
You made that word up

>>22744768
Oh Ye of Little Faith....
https://read.84000.co/translation/toh747.html

>>22744108
Sounds like another example of God's superiority to me.

>>22713551
Just because you, specifically, haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Do colors not exist because the dog does not see them?

>>22737558
>and to the physical practice of extended edging (ideally into a trance state).
Niggas accidentally reinvented tantric rituals/jing retention

Aleister Crowley is a fucking fraud and shitposter. Don't bother with his works, it's self-aggrandizing nonesense.

>>22713582
Good bait. Now kill yourself.

had a thought a while back, wondering what you guys would think: what if magic was actually real, and the reason we have tropes of things like "mix in eye of newt and spleen of dog" is because magic is actually irl glitch hunting, and the best way to find glitches is to do stuff the devs wouldn't expect a player to do?

EXPLAIN THE EMERALD TABLET OF HERMES TO ME

WHY DOES IT SEEM LIKE HE JUST STOLE THE TAO TE CHING AND REPACKAGED IT FOR THE WEST

>>22736939
Literally just repackaged and stolen Tao Te Ching I don’t get the giant hype around this

>>22739589
Skibidi do do dom yes yes

>>22745457
nigger

>>22745626
Synchronicity.

>>22745149
Proof?

>>22713513
OP the following book I have and have read up until the section about the different Demons, reason being I was looking for knowledge on the science behind it all and not really looking to summon any, but the book in my picrel will potentially be beneficial to your search for knowledge on demons
Within the book you’ll learn about things like “smudging” (not the same as with the bundle of burning incense) but a lot of what you will learn will be good starting points for deeper dives. Using “smudging” as an example led me to learning about Kabbalah and Mystic Judaism as Demonology is a big part of the whole spiritual work that is covered in mystical judaism.
I’m not an expert but would be willing to share information I’ve studied and think I have a grasp upon, I also have read and own other grimoires and such but again - not an expert and I’m still in the armchair but I love discussing such subjects

>>22745457
Magic is real, its a science with clear cut rules and operations.
If you do ‘v’ on ‘w’ then you get ‘x’
Many will disagree with me and I’m sure there will be ignorant individuals who cuss me or claim I’m mentally unstable and making shit up, but just as a Chemist must follow specific rules to obtain sought after effects so too much a magician follow specific rules to obtain sought after effects.

>>22747202
Thanks bud

>>22747218
You’re welcome Anon, safe ventures

>>22747246
You too.

>>22747202
>i've never done magic
>>22747215
>ps: magic is science even tho never done it

Pure poetry

How is magic as a science possible?

>>22747372
Magic is just science you don't understand yet

>>22747372
Science has as one of its definitions;
> the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation, experimentation, and the testing of theories against the evidence obtained.

And that is exactly what Magic is, in all its branches. That’s why I consider it a science

>>22747383
so Magic is just another name for Science? Then why call it Magic?

>>22747383
>observation, experimentation, and the testing of theories against the evidence obtained.
also this implies magic is an empirical science, but that would mean it suffers from the same problems other empirical sciences have (problem of induction, problem of demarcation, etc.)

>>22747433
Personal inquiry has different rules than empirical inquiry. The empire and their peer review has no business in my brain.

>>22747506
>The empire and their peer review has no business in my brain.
that's not what I'm referring to AT ALL

>>22747512
Point is we're not limited by formalities including formal logic except when collaborating. Any collaborative enterprise needs formal constraints like logic and assumptions like assuming both are working in the same environment/context.
The oldest discipline based on observation is astrology. The vague text in horoscopes is a common form of divination where each person focuses on the parts of the text that's relevant to them. The reason buddhists spin wheels is every spinning wheel has a spirit / demon. A clock is a symphony of bound demons.

>>22747423
Because Scientists didn't want to be called Alchemists and Natural Magi anymore. Way to be a stick in the mud, Sciencebros...

>>22747591
>A clock is a symphony of bound demons.
hol up. wut?

>>22747991
>He doesn't know

>>22747591
I'm referring to the problems addressed by philosophy of science which are universal to all sciences-- including your supposedly first-hand experiential psychology.

>>22747506
>Personal inquiry has different rules than empirical inquiry.
no it doesn't because it's still empirical-- it's still observation and theorizing about those observations. The only other types of science that are not empirical is mathematics and formal logic.

>>22747981
No, scientists were the people too shit to actually do alchemy, "smoke puffers" was the pejorative used to describe them.

>>22722827
this post is literally me
however, neurologically, the less you think about pussy the more clear your thinking becomes

>>22748043
>Truly, with respect to that sex [the female sex], what I abominate is that zealous and disordered venereal love which some are accustomed to expend for it, so that they come to the point of making their wit the slave of woman, and of degrading the noblest powers and actions of the intellectual soul.

>>22748000
>problem of induction
I don't need to always assume one thing follows from the other. Logic and causality are rules of this realm not all realms.
>>22748016
Theorizing is formal, adapting to navigate a given input/context is informal. A developing brain naturally does the latter.

>>22713513
r

>>22748068
>I don't need to always assume one thing follows from the other. Logic and causality are rules of this realm not all realms.
dude do even understand what you are implying? without logic and causality there is no science.

>>22747362
I don’t like to lie if I don’t have to and its no point in me pretending to be some Demon conjurer when I am not. My tripcode is pretty evident of my lack of actual practice but that doesn’t make my understanding of the overall gist of Magic any less sound or correct.
>>22747423
No, I am not saying that at all. And I may be wrong but I’m detecting undertones in your question that point to you disbelieving in Magic. I am not on a tour to make believers out of nonbelievers, from personal random experiences I know Magic, the a spiritual world and all it encompasses to be true but my postings in this thread was firstly for OP and secondly for others like OP and myself who find interest in the subject.
>>22747433
No discipline is without its errors or problems caused by man attempting to fit it within their mold of understanding. So never will I say its perfect.

>>22748236
>No, I am not saying that at all
>>22747383
>that is exactly what Magic is
explain yourself. also I am sympathetic to the belief but I retain a healthy skepticism.

>>22748244
Not attempting to be rude but I thought I'd explained myself, but to reiterate;
When I said; >>22747383
What I was getting at is, Magic itself is a science. it has formulas and rules which must be abided by for desired results;
for example - Agrippa in his 4 work volume of Occult Philosophy, he clearly teaches a disciple of magic which is influenced by greater forces and dependent upon those greater forces to influence and 'control' the lesser forces as well as timing (Timing in this sense relates to the execution of certain procedures under specific Astrological influences, ex. if you were making an amulet or 'device' to harness the powers of Mercury, you'd get a better outcome if the procedure is conducted under the influence of the Planet Mercury when it is present in the sky above you or Constellations related to Mercury).
Some Magical disciplines (ex. Chaos Magick) doesn't still too rigidly to the beliefs of Agrippa but still contains rules and guidelines for expected and successful results.
I don't know how to say it any more clearly or plainly that Magic is a science like Physics, Mathematics or Astronomy.
Can I ask, without edge, what is it about my postings you didn't understand when I say its a Science?

I'm surprised this thread lasted as long as it did.

>>22748265
>Agrippa in his four volume
He only wrote the first three bro

>>22749183
/thread

>>22748092
Reading a horoscope and finding positive hits that predicted your day while ignoring all the wrong predictions is not science but it's similar to something life does all the time with powerful results.
Beyond causality there's subjective selection like in basic divination, there's will. One thing follows from the other because the will selects the parts of the chaos that serve. Every wheel is a demon and those that fully serve are angels. Science is an attempt at removing subjectivity but in practice it creates its own shared subjective perspective based on principles focused on being able to communicate ideas formally.