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/lit/ - Literature

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22714231 No.22714231 [Reply] [Original]

At this point, I think we can all agree that these two were the best of American fiction from approximately 1965ish to 2015ish. I think it's quite clear that neither DeLillo nor Roth were ever truly in the same category as these two. Sure, someone like Wallace was talented but, because he killed himself and we don't know how he would have matured, he's very much a product of his generation and, whether you believe he had discernible talent or not, there's just not enough there nor will there ever be enough there. Beyond those five, to be frank, I'm struggling to think of any others who would even dream of laying claim to being the best.

So, if it's agreed and established that they were unquestionably the best of that time period, the question then becomes, which of these two was best?

Me? I originally thought it was McCarthy until I forced myself to put more effort into Pynchon, and I eventually became a Pynchon man for a long time. Until I started to believe that even Pynchon regretted some of his more challenging excerpts and wished he had as much commercial success as McCarthy, which I think really showed itself in his later work. So I switched to McCarthy. Now I'm in the midst of another deeper dive with Pynchon and I'm starting to better appreciate him again.

Gun to my head? I think Pynchon was the talent of his generation, but I can understand why, if forced to only choose one for a desert island as the only books you can read for the rest of your days, I understand why people would say McCarthy.

>> No.22714308
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22714308

>>22714231
McCarthy and Pynchon are not in the same league. I enjoy them both, but there's something wrong with you if you think youknowwhichone represents American literature. Youknowwhichbook is so severely overpraised I'm pretty sure it's a long running literary prank.

So I guess the next question is... who is the real #2 spot? DeLillo and Roth aren't worth even mentioning (I know why you did, obv your opinion on Pynchon and McCarthy says volumes) but so anyway the answer is Gaddis and or Gass. I think you can say one and mean the other and sort of blend the two into the answer, they won't mind.

>> No.22714316

>>22714231
Mac for me (even though I disliked his troon swan song)

>> No.22714386

>>22714316
what didnt you like

>> No.22714392

>>22714231
I don't even know who either of these people are. Cormac and Pynchon ok I read the rest. I've never read Cormac McCarthy because every except I've ever seen seemed boring as fucking shit and I couldn't read it. Same with Pynchon. The Great American novelists for the most part all seem like utter bullshit trash to me and I haven't read any of them. Ironically, Roth is one of the only one's I've read and I did enjoy his work.

>> No.22714401

>>22714386
those 2 books

>> No.22714408

>>22714231
None of their books hold a candle to Sometimes a Great Notion

>> No.22714976

dare I say Joseph McElroy?

>> No.22714983

>>22714408
Good book but that's the dumbest thing I've heard all day.

>>22714401
Good talk.

>> No.22714995

>>22714231
Can you rank their books? First individually then combined ranking. Thanks.

>> No.22715004

>>22714976
Love his writing but no one will be reading it in a hundred years

>> No.22715036

>>22714995
Pynch:
Mason and Dixon > Against the Day > TCOL49 = GR > Vineland > V > Bleeding Edge > Inherent Vice
McCarthy:
Cities of the Plain > ATPLH > Blood Meridian > Child of God > The Crossing > No Country > Suttree > The Road (havent read the passenger/stella maris)
Combined:
Mason > AtD > Cities > ATPLH > Blood Meridian = TCOL49 = GR > Child of God > The Crossing > Vineland > V > No Country > Suttree > Bleeding Edge > IV > The Road

>> No.22715762

>>22715036
Thanks for delivering :D

>> No.22715779

>>22715762
Cheers, I just noticed I missed Outer Dark, i'd put it above Child of God but below TCOL49 and GR. They're all really good books, anyways, barring maybe The Road (too much straight-laced misery porn without the crooked sublimity of something like Blood Meridian for me)

>> No.22715871

>>22714231
I've been a Pynchon head since I read Inherent Vice before watching the movie back in 2014 or whatever. I'm just starting to come up to McCarthy, having read Blood Meridian, No Country For Old Men, and just finished The Passenger / Stella Maris. My two cents: I don't think there's much to be gained by trying to rank them, but they clearly both produced bodies of work that are to be treasured, and they both point in the end toward the same overriding concern of every American: the bomb.

>> No.22716035

McCarthy is the only late 20th century standout. Pynchon is not even in the top 5.

>> No.22716038

>>22714231
Both Redditcore novelists.

>> No.22716041

>>22714308
I agree. Pynchon doesn’t represent American culture at all and Gravity’s Rainbow is overrated.

>> No.22716083

>>22716038
>Both Redditcore novelists.
Post your non-redditcore favorites.

>> No.22716088

>>22716035
t. midwit

>> No.22716097 [SPOILER] 
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22716097

>>22716041
i like you

>> No.22716109

Cormac, sit down lil nigga you haven't written a good book since blud meridian and i used your last one to jam in my lil nigga bitch mouf while she cried and begged me to keep amashing her vajeen into her stomach wit my big nigga dick

>> No.22716319
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22716319

I like both, not every book needs to be gravities rainbow you guys and I'd argue macca was at least more consistent

>> No.22716336

>>22714231
the age of autofiction is upon us, spearheaded by the mighty Mark Kozelek

>> No.22716589

>>22714231
Postwar Ameri-Boomer literature is a barren wasteland and the only cause for a Pynchon remotely being in the running; his late work is dismal.